CZ 550 Carbine

[Mr. Goodtimes]

What are pistol forums thoughts on the CZ 550 carbine? I'm considering picking one up in 9.3 Mauser as a general purpose bush/hunting rifle. Looking at the Kevlar version and putting some kind of low power variable on top (1-4 or 1-6). I haven't really heard much about these rifles but I like the fact that they are a controlled round feed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SLG]

Have you handled one? GJM probably has some experience with them. To me, they have always seemed rather rough and clunky. I do love my other CZ's though, especially the .22's.

[GJM]

I have little CZ bolts, in .223 and 6.5 Grendel, and they are trim, accurate and overall a delight. I have big CZ actions, in .458 Lott and .416 Rigby, that are appropriately scaled to those cartridges. The mid size CZ actions and rifles have always struck me as heavy and clunky compared to a model 70. The 9.3 carbine looks interesting, though.

[Mr. Goodtimes]

I've never handled one, just the smaller 7.62x39 and .223 carbines. I wanted a good, affordable all around hunting rifle capable of killing anything in North America with iron sights and controlled round feed.

My other option, although less affordable was to buy a model 70 extreme weather in 30-06, cut the barrel to 18in, add some DBM for AI mags and have some iron sights put on at the same time, down the road I could have the action re barreled to 9.3 if I wanted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GJM]

I think 9.3x62 is nifty, but if I didn't already have one, I would be tempted to start with the model 70 .30-06. With the right bullets, it can do everything in NA, and it will be less expensive and more pleasant to shoot. When I was shooting my 9.3 a few days ago, verifying zero, I was thinking I was glad I didn't have to shoot a bunch of rounds with it. Not painful, but each shot gets your full attention. No such concern with the .30-06.

[LSP552]

Have you handled one? GJM probably has some experience with them. To me, they have always seemed rather rough and clunky. I do love my other CZ's though, especially the .22's.

I own a CZ .375 H&H and it's indeed clunky and a bit oversized for the caliber. My Win 70 .375 was much quicker handling. Unfortunately, the 2 model 70 Safari Express' I've owned (.375 H&H and .416 Rem Mag) were unreliable, even after going back to the factory. That's the reason I bought the CZ, which has been completely reliable. The CZ is clunky but it will probably work out of the box.

[GJM]

I own a CZ .375 H&H and it's indeed clunky and a bit oversized for the caliber. My Win 70 .375 was much quicker handling. Unfortunately, the 2 model 70 Safari Express' I've owned (.375 H&H and .416 Rem Mag) were unreliable, even after going back to the factory. That's the reason I bought the CZ, which has been completely reliable. The CZ is clunky but it will probably work out of the box.

I am assuming your model 70s are post 64? I have three pre-64 .375s, and they feed as well or better than any other rifle I own, in any caliber. I have one controlled feed, post 64 .375 and it doesn't feed nearly as well.

[secondstoryguy]

I've handled and shot the CZ 550 Kevlar carbine in both 9.3 And 30-06. Solid guns but they are not as svelte as the Win 70. The triggers, while not bad, are also not as simple and reliable as the pre-64/post 1990s (non-MOA) Win 70 triggers. I'd go 30-06 over 9.3 for logistical reason and because a 06' loaded with 220s will do pretty much anything a 9.3 will do.

Having owned both a 90s vintage .375 and a pre-64 I agree with the above that the pre-64 is a lot smoother(the generally goes for all calibers in the mod 70s). I know when the mod 70s were being built there was a lot of hands on attention building them(especially with the earlier guns) so I suspect that has something to do with it.

You can find pre-64s out there for reasonable prices. You just have to look and be patient. I've seen .375s as cheap at $1300-1500...they typically go pretty quick at those prices thought.

[GJM]

It is getting to be hunting season, so these rifles are with me. Just snapped this photo:

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/image.jpg1_zpsl1qytjhg.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/image.jpg1_zpsl1qytjhg.jpg.html)

All Brockman guns. In the middle is a 9.3x62 built on a pre-64 model 70. Started off as a .308, and cost me about $500 in the early 90's. Over the years, became a .338-06, then a .270 and now the 9.3. Holds five down cartridges.

On the right, is an original pre-64 .375 that cost me about $600 in the early 90's. Just a bit of custom work, and this rifle has been to Africa three times, serving as a "light" rifle. It is harvested cape buffalo (followed up initial shots with a .470 NE), lion, leopard, eland, kudu, and many other plains game animals. It has a Swarovski 1-4 scope, and hasn't had a zero shift in nearly 20 years. Shoots Trophy Bonded into an inch at 100 yards.

On the left is a pre-64 that started out as a .300 H&H, and now is a .375 H&H. Missing is my collector .375 H&H, I bought off a missionary from Tanzania for $600 or $700 in the 90's. I have some original elephant tags with it. It has harvested about 200 Cape buffalo, and like 52 elephant, with a notch in the stock for each elephant.

[LSP552]

I am assuming your model 70s are post 64? I have three pre-64 .375s, and they feed as well or better than any other rifle I own, in any caliber. I have one controlled feed, post 64 .375 and it doesn't feed nearly as well.

Both were post 64 NH new model controlled round feed, but not near the factory closure. The .375 stock was inletted so poorly on the bottom that the floor plate assembly wouldn't stay latched and it routinely dropped rounds out the bottom. I sent it back and the factory just glued a piece of plywood in the bottom in an attempt to hold the floor plate assembly in place. The gun needed a new stock but they wouldn't do that. The "fix" didn't work, Winchester wouldn't do anything else, and I got pissed and sold it to a gunsmith buddy who was going to restock it. He loves it to this day, 20 years later.

The .416 Rem Mag wouldn't feed anything reliably, and at round 3 the front sight flew off never to be seen again. The screw holding the front sight on didn't allow more that a couple of turns, which won't work with a heavy kicker like the .416RM. The mag spring was too weak for the weight of the rounds, and it was common for rounds to fly out of the ejection port when working the action fast. Factory warranty repair was to epoxy a piece of plastic to the side of the follower. and to epoxy the front sight. Nope, didn't work and I took a big loss selling the rifle with full disclosure.

Both of those rifles were complete POSs and I swore I'd never buy another large caliber NH model 70. As you know, large caliber rifles are a different animal than those chambered for normal NA hunting cartridges.

The CZ is heavy for the .375, but it works perfectly. This (along with price) is why they are so popular. At some point, I'll probably have the barrel cut and put the stock on a diet.

My favorite hunting rifle is built on a NH new model 70 action by friend Terry Cross before he quit doing hunting rifle builds.

http://kmwlrs.com/Homepage

I'm not anti NH model 70s in smaller calibers, but you couldn't give me a big bore for anything but the action as the basis for a custom build.

[GJM]

Jim Brockman says the controlled feed, post 64 New Haven guns feed OK with regular cartridges, but not with anything out of the ordinary. The reason being the pre-64 actions have the feed lips integral to the action, and the modern actions do not.

I feel like through .375 H&H is the sweet spot for the model 70 action, and beyond there are better options like the CZ, and previously Dakota.

[okie john]

What are pistol forums thoughts on the CZ 550 carbine? I'm considering picking one up in 9.3 Mauser as a general purpose bush/hunting rifle. Looking at the Kevlar version and putting some kind of low power variable on top (1-4 or 1-6). I haven't really heard much about these rifles but I like the fact that they are a controlled round feed.

I used to have a ZKK 602 in 375, and I still own one of the first 550 Americans to come into the US in 9.3x62. The ZKK is now available as the CZ African. It's chambered for several huge cartridges and is about the right size for them. The 550 is a 30/06-length action, but it's basically a short ZKK, so it's much heavier than a Model 70, 700, or any other similar action. I think it's about right for cartridges in the 35 Whelen/9.3x62/375 class, and as George noted, there are better choices for a mountain rifle.

The stock on my 550 American was thick and heavy, with a 1" Decelerator pad, which is nice. The 9.3x62's magic comes from sectional density and modest velocity, but it still kicks pretty hard and I wouldn't want one under about nine pounds loaded with scope and sling. If you plan to do much offhand shooting, then get one in your hands before buying. If it balances at the front receiver screw, then you'll be a LOT happier than if it balances very far either side of that, although muzzle-heavy is better than butt-heavy.

Once upon a time, these rifles used a knurled ring to retain the mainspring, and all was good. My 375 was like this. But somewhere, CZ lost its way and started to use a C-clip to hold that spring in place. My 9.3x62 was one of these. After a few hundred live rounds and a couple of thousand dry-fire cycles, the C-clip worked its way forward until one day it no longer retained the mainspring with enough force to fire a cartridge. Unfortunately, that was also the day that I found myself on a control hunt on the Big Island of Hawaii with feral cattle all about.

I was in thick scrub, with two down and my crosshairs on a third when I got the proverbial click instead of a bang. Fortunately the cattle were confused and disinclined to come after me. I eased my way out of the brush and put a few hundred yards between me and the herd, then carefully set my rifle down and had one of the most powerful bowel movements in the history of mankind. After regaining my composure, I drove back to the farm and got a Winchester Model 1895 in 30/06, then waded back into the brush and nailed several more cattle with it.

After I got back home, I told CZ about my adventures and I believe that they went back to the knurled nut arrangement, but I'd strip the bolt of any of CZ rifle and make sure that was the case before I took it into harm's way.

The 9.3x62 is an interesting cartridge and a lot of fun to shoot, but I agree with George that the 30/06 is a better all-around choice for North America. I used the 9.3x62 on three feral cattle hunts, all with handloads. I shot one cow with a 270-grain Speer semi-spitzers and four with 285-grain Nosler Partitions, all at about 2,350 fps. (I also shot a little pig with it, but I don't remember which load.) With the 30/06, I shot two cattle with 180-grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claws (2,700 fps) and one with 220-grain Remington CoreLokts (2,400 fps). All were one-shot kills, and they only real difference was that cattle hit with the 30/06 tended to go 10-20 yards farther than those I hit than the 9.3x62--not enough to matter.

For me, it's not performance that differentiates them, but logistics. On the way home from that trip, the TSA confiscated a few 9.3x62 rounds that got loose in my bag. Had that happened on the way over, and had they decided to take much more of my ammo, I would have been in a bind. But with a 30/06, I could have bought ammo almost anywhere--maybe not the rifle's favorite load, but certainly more than adequate. Unless you're in Africa or Europe, that's probably not going to happen with the 9.3x62.

I gave the 550 American to my father, who keeps it for when I hunt with him, but he has a state of the art loading bench and I don't have to worry about ammo. I do all my other hunting with a Model 70 Featherweight in 30/06. It's utterly vanilla, but there's a lot to be said for that.


Okie John

[SLG]

As others have said, the 30-06/308 will do everything in NA, and do it easier. Unless you have a lot of experience with those loadings already, and really want a 9.3 (I did, and recently picked one up), I would stay away from the true medium bores and stick with the light stuff. Ultimately, you should get what you want, but if it is based on perceived performance or need, rather than experience, I really think you'll be happier with the '06/308.

[GJM]

If you are hankering for something slightly bigger than .30-06, and are willing to load for it, I hunted a .338-06 for years in Alaska, with great results. Brockman loaded me up 225 Nosler Partition bullets in Norma brass, that were quite accurate and effective on game. Recoils, not surprisingly, like a big .30-06. Gives up performance beyond 300 yards, but hits hard 0-300, and holds five down rounds in a standard .06 action.

[Mr. Goodtimes]

As others have said, the 30-06/308 will do everything in NA, and do it easier. Unless you have a lot of experience with those loadings already, and really want a 9.3 (I did, and recently picked one up), I would stay away from the true medium bores and stick with the light stuff. Ultimately, you should get what you want, but if it is based on perceived performance or need, rather than experience, I really think you'll be happier with the '06/308.

To be honest this will be the first hunting rifle that I've ever purchased with my own money. To sort of sum things up, I'm 26, money is tight and I've always been a quality over quantity guy. I'm a shooter, not a collector. I'd rather buy one really nice rifle and optic that does a variety of tasks well vs going full Cletus and buying six Ruger Americans in six different calibers each with a with a Barska 5-Hubble on top, I'll take the one nice rifle.

I was considering 9.3 as it seemed like the best do it all cartridge around. My primary concern with 30-06 was grizzly defense and how adequate it would be. I have no intention of hunting grizzly, however of faced with one on, say a moose hunt, I'd like a rifle capable of dispatching both.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[okie john]

To be honest this will be the first hunting rifle that I've ever purchased with my own money. To sort of sum things up, I'm 26, money is tight and I've always been a quality over quantity guy. I'm a shooter, not a collector. I'd rather buy one really nice rifle and optic that does a variety of tasks well vs going full Cletus and buying six Ruger Americans in six different calibers each with a with a Barska 5-Hubble on top, I'll take the one nice rifle.

I was considering 9.3 as it seemed like the best do it all cartridge around. My primary concern with 30-06 was grizzly defense and how adequate it would be. I have no intention of hunting grizzly, however of faced with one on, say a moose hunt, I'd like a rifle capable of dispatching both.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You're overthinking it. By the time you can afford to hunt grizzly or moose, you'll be able to afford a new rifle. Until then, get a 30/06--especially if money is tight.


Okie John

[Mr. Goodtimes]

30-06 is it then. Thanks for all the insight and help, one of the many reasons I think PF is one of the best gun forums around. Does anybody make good adjustable iron sights like what was found on the old battle rifles? The lee enfield jungle carbine is sort of my inspiration for the project.

[SMD]

I'm a little late to the party on this one, but I think you're making a smart choice with the 30-06.

I agree the CZ is bulky and a bit overweight. It's not surprising, though, since we're talking about a rifle that's pretty faithful to the original Mauser pattern. I think the only concession to lighter weight (and maybe cost) on mine were plastic magazine followers. I've had two of them, one a full stock in 6.5x55 and the other, a 9.3x62 Lux. Both were wonderfully accurate and well-finished and both ran well. The only retrograde steps CZ took, in my opinion, were the safety and trigger. Had I kept both or either, I would have switched to a Model 70 style safety and an open trigger.

I found the 9.3x62 a remarkable cartridge. As others have said, it's overkill for most people but at the time, I lived and hunted near Montana's Rocky Mountain Front and the adjacent Bob Marshall Wilderness. It ain't Alaska, but there's a substantial grizzly population and every fall, there are maulings and often a fatality or two. At the time, I liked the idea of a hunting cartridge that had amassed a global record on large and sometimes dangerous game. I found it no more challenging to shoot than a heavily loaded .30-06 but again, my CZ weighed close to 10 lbs all up. It performed wonderfully on everything from antelope to elk.

Ultimately, I grew tired of sourcing brass and bullets for niche calibers and underwent a dramatic downsizing a few years ago. I settled on a pair of rifles and chose the Winchester Model 70 in 30-06. I now have a pre-64 standard weight and a BACO Ultimate Shadow. They're not set up identically by any means, but I really like the redundancy in my choices and it's so nice to have the abundant support the grand old '06 enjoys.

Again, it sounds like you're making a really good choice in caliber. Look into NEGC for rear aperture sights. X/S also makes a ghost ring that fits atop a Weaver base. Front sights are easy to source.

[okie john]

30-06 is it then. Thanks for all the insight and help, one of the many reasons I think PF is one of the best gun forums around. Does anybody make good adjustable iron sights like what was found on the old battle rifles? The lee enfield jungle carbine is sort of my inspiration for the project.

Glad to help.

Good peep sights are an art and a science unto themselves. Lyman, Redfield and others still make the old gallows-type sights, or you can find them used. They're not cheap but they're worth every penny. Even the Williams Guide Receiver Sight is no slouch is you're on a budget. There are also a number of good choices if you want to use a barrel-mounted open sight.

The stock is the bigger problem. A rifle stocked for iron sights will have a low comb and heel that make it a sub-optimal choice for optics, since you'll have to crane your neck to see through the glass. A rifle stocked for glass will have a comb and heel so high that you can't see the irons unless they're so high that they co-witness. Then there's the challenge of mounting a scope and irons at the same time. About the only rifle I've seen that addresses all of these issues elegantly is the M-4.

On the bright side, now that you're looking at a 30/06, you have a lot of models from which to choose. Even more important, there are about a million used ones lying around in pawnshops in various states of trim. You can spend a few afternoons (or a lifetime) coonfingering them for the price of the gas it takes to drive across town.


Okie John

[LHS]

I love the 9.3x62, but you're making the right choice for a do-it-all North American hunting rifle by going with a .30-'06.

[JHC]

I think the itty bitty in 7.62x39 is more my speed.

[SteveB]

To be honest this will be the first hunting rifle that I've ever purchased with my own money. To sort of sum things up, I'm 26, money is tight and I've always been a quality over quantity guy. I'm a shooter, not a collector. I'd rather buy one really nice rifle and optic that does a variety of tasks well vs going full Cletus and buying six Ruger Americans in six different calibers each with a with a Barska 5-Hubble on top, I'll take the one nice rifle.

I was considering 9.3 as it seemed like the best do it all cartridge around. My primary concern with 30-06 was grizzly defense and how adequate it would be. I have no intention of hunting grizzly, however of faced with one on, say a moose hunt, I'd like a rifle capable of dispatching both.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree with the .30-06 as a best choice for an all-around NA hunting rifle; no caliber has more bullet choices. If grizzly defense is going to be a big part of your equation, though, I'd lean towards the 9.3. The 9.3 is pretty versatile; last year I shot a 225 lb Russian boar with a 250 grain Barnes and a 1500 lb buffalo with a 286 grain Nosler Partition. The .30-06 is many things, but not the best choice as a DG rifle. I agree with okie john in that if grizzly encounters are in the future, get the .30-06 now, get the 9.3 later. Finally, if money is tight, the .30-06 is a no-brainer; good ammo is way less expensive.

[HCM]

I think the itty bitty in 7.62x39 is more my speed.

They are great guns. I'd like to eventually get another in .223 or 6.5 Grendel. Not so much for Grizzly though.

My LGS just got in a used CZ 550 in 9.3, the full Mannlicher stock model with a nice Lupold 2–7 X. I have no practical use for it but it is a beautiful rifle.

http://www.adelbridge.com/shop/rifles/bolt-action/

[JHC]

They are great guns. I'd like to eventually get another in .223 or 6.5 Grendel.

I wish CZ offered them directly in .223 with 1:9, 6.5 Grendel, 7.62x39 and .300 Blackout. Then I'd really be in a quandary.

Since I have a couple ARs in 5.56 I tend to think the Russian .30 cal would be my best bet though. Less ammo $$$ and I really like the .30-30 class ballistics for my modest range deer hunting.

[JonInWA]

I think the itty bitty in 7.62x39 is more my speed.

I doubled down on the difference: CZ 527 Carbine in 7.62x39 for brush hunting and as a back-up, and as a non-AR looking defensive rifle, and a CZ 550 FS with its full Mannlicher stock in .308, zeroed with both its iron sights and the Leupold 3X9; standard cartridge is Hornady 150 gr InterLock American Whitetail. I picked it up NOS just before Cee Zed decided to discontinue the 550 FS. My hunting companious are appreciatively envious. I'm thinking that in the Mannlicher format a significant amount of clunkiness is excised.

Using Warne QR rings, the zero is maintained if the glass is removed when subsequently replaced, making for a great heavy weather iron-sight option that can be immediately reverted to class sighting.

Best, Jon