CCW guy kills himself with ND while holstering

[Chuck Haggard]

Of course there are few details, but I have to wonder what holster, or if he even had one;

http://concealednation.org/2015/08/concealed-carrier-dies-after-holstering-his-firearm-dont-let-this-happen-to-you/

[Symmetry]

Being the femoral artery, he was probably doing a Mexican carry with no holster. Darwin unfortunately.

[LSP552]

The article says he was reholstering, so at least some kind of holster. The gun was reported as a Springfield .45. I was initially thinking 1911, but I guess that could include the XD also.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/milwaukee-man-dies-after-accidentally-shooting-himself-in-tleg-b99561550z1-322524181.html

[GardoneVT]

Seems like an ND with an XD is a Prereq for Cleetii Handgun I.

[WDW]

I'm gonna go ahead and assume he was reholstering, into a derpa or uncle mikes, with his finger on the trigger, and the mag was loaded with G2 Rip or whatever the fuck the cleeti are packing these days. It's sad and unfortunate, but in the words of Animal Mother..."better you than me"

[GJM]

If it was an XD, then he must have had the grip safety depressed along with moving the trigger?

[JV_]

he must have had the grip safety depressedIt could have been pinned.

[TGS]

If it was an XD, then he must have had the grip safety depressed along with moving the trigger?

Just an observation on shooters in general and not the deceased, but with how many people (even noted top firearms trainers) forcefully shove their gun into their holster, I'm going to danger that the grip safety is usually disengaged.

[s0nspark]

My first thoughts with this were: new shooter/CCW'er, untrained, carrying appendix, in a hurry.

Bad combination, for sure. Very sad to see this happen.

[YVK]

Young, untrained kid posing with a loaded gun. Horrible tragedy.

[RJ]

Damn that is a shame.

Just completed a GSW Trauma course yesterday and talked about how quickly you can bleed out if you have a major artery nicked.

IIRC it was 2 minutes. :(

Sad indeed for this young man.

[Hambo]

It sounds like an inexperienced young man, but it's a warning for the rest of us. Take your eye off the ball for a second and bad things can happen.

[jh9]

It's very unfortunate, but symptomatic of the fashion show mentality that came with the glut of new gun owners post 2008. It's always been there, but since then it's gotten much worse.

Same deal with the surge of OC activism. Lots of people are more interested in posing for a selfie with their guns or looking good in public while OC'ing their rifle/plate carrier/drop rig than exercising basic gun safety. And this is the result.

Nobody wants to say it, but either the gun culture adapts (and discourages this behavior) or the tide of public opinion will turn. And when that happens there'll be a legislative solution rather than a cultural solution.

There's nothing wrong with recreational use of firearms, but they are not toys and that point needs to be driven home. It would be nice if our YouTube personalities collectively decided to do so with a unified front. I'm guessing that's the only way to reach them en masse.

[tmoore912]

http://media.townhall.com/_townhall/uploads/2015/8/23/3.jpg

He was 21 years old.

http://bearingarms.com/man-dies-attempting-appendix-carry-reholster-milkwaukee/

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/milwaukee-man-dies-after-accidentally-shooting-himself-in-tleg-b99561550z1-322524181.html

[jh9]

He was 21 years old.

http://bearingarms.com/man-dies-attempting-appendix-carry-reholster-milkwaukee/

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/milwaukee-man-dies-after-accidentally-shooting-himself-in-tleg-b99561550z1-322524181.html

I hadn't read either article.


On Friday evening, Mr. Phonisay apparently decided that he wanted to talk a selfie with his handgun, described in the Journal Sentinel as a “Springfield .45 -caliber handgun.”

My last post wasn't intended to single out the deceased.

edited my last post to change the inflammatory phrasing

[tmoore912]

I hadn't read either article.



My last post wasn't intended to single out the deceased.

edited my last post to change the inflammatory phrasing

My post had nothing to do with what you said. It was merely info I had seen on Twitter.

[Alpha Sierra]

Just an observation on shooters in general and not the deceased, but with how many people (even noted top firearms trainers) forcefully shove their gun into their holster, I'm going to danger that the grip safety is usually disengaged.
Don't forget about the shirt tail in the way too....

[GardoneVT]

Perhaps it is local sampling bias, but among local gun owners the XDs grip safety lends a false sense of security. Ergo, Glock = "Whoa , gotta be careful cause NO SAFETY".

XD = " Safety rules are for kids. I've got a grip safety!".

[Trooper224]

Doubley tragic because it was so avoidable

[Alpha Sierra]

Based on the behaviors I saw during the range portion of the state mandated CCW class, this doesn't surprise me.

[Dropkick]

Just completed a GSW Trauma course yesterday and talked about how quickly you can bleed out if you have a major artery nicked.

IIRC it was 2 minutes. :(

Kerry Davis of Dark Angel Medical has a video of a guy getting fatally hit in the leg by a rifle round.
The guy passes out from blood loss in about 15 seconds, and the blood pressure bottoms out (no more spurting) in less than 30 seconds.

[RJ]

Kerry Davis of Dark Angel Medical has a video of a guy getting fatally hit in the leg by a rifle round.
The guy passes out from blood loss in about 15 seconds, and the blood pressure bottoms out (no more spurting) in less than 30 seconds.

Damn. :(

We got a SWAT-T as part of our course's IFAK. We saw and fondled a CAT and a SOFT-T in class. I will be purchasing a SOFT-T and practice one handed.

[Default.mp3]

Damn. :(

We got a SWAT-T as part of our course's IFAK. We saw and fondled a CAT and a SOFT-T in class. I will be purchasing a SOFT-T and practice one handed.
Pakistani paramilitaries shooting a civilian. Pretty eye opening, motivated us to get our TQs on faster. I dunno how different the SOFTT is from the SOFTT-W, but I'd consider getting both the CAT and the SOFTT-W; the SOFTT-W is considerably more difficult to apply one handed, especially on arms. Since Kerry started teaching his class in ~2011, almost no one has completed an entire course using just a SOFTT-W (he stated that I was the first, and I took the class only a couple months ago).

[Chuck Haggard]

Just an observation on shooters in general and not the deceased, but with how many people (even noted top firearms trainers) forcefully shove their gun into their holster, I'm going to danger that the grip safety is usually disengaged.

^That^ is a very real problem, something I have started to work on actively in classes. I saw a shit ton of that on the range last weekend at Paul-E

[Dagga Boy]

It's very unfortunate, but symptomatic of the fashion show mentality that came with the glut of new gun owners post 2008. It's always been there, but since then it's gotten much worse.

Same deal with the surge of OC activism. Lots of people are more interested in posing for a selfie with their guns or looking good in public while OC'ing their rifle/plate carrier/drop rig than exercising basic gun safety. And this is the result.

Nobody wants to say it, but either the gun culture adapts (and discourages this behavior) or the tide of public opinion will turn. And when that happens there'll be a legislative solution rather than a cultural solution.

There's nothing wrong with recreational use of firearms, but they are not toys and that point needs to be driven home. It would be nice if our YouTube personalities collectively decided to do so with a unified front. I'm guessing that's the only way to reach them en masse.

This is the current state of our YouTube firearms world. Choices are paid for in blood. I am not to excited about this stuff. It goes against everything we teach, thus old and not cool. Pay to play. You want to mimic your favorite YouTube gun celebrity while taking pictures of yourself while violating all four of the basic safety rules.....you or somebody else will get injured or killed. That is not a mystery, it is a choice. I feel bad for his family, but this is what happens when people engage in risky behavior.

Edited to add: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?17013-Training-so-bad-it-s-painful-to-watch

[RJ]

Pakistani paramilitaries shooting a civilian. Pretty eye opening, motivated us to get our TQs on faster. I dunno how different the SOFTT is from the SOFTT-W, but I'd consider getting both the CAT and the SOFTT-W; the SOFTT-W is considerably more difficult to apply one handed, especially on arms. Since Kerry started teaching his class in ~2011, almost no one has completed an entire course using just a SOFTT-W (he stated that I was the first, and I took the class only a couple months ago).

Great idea. (Get both).

Choices are good.

Edit for question: the CAT is the one w Velcro, right?

[scw2]

^That^ is a very real problem, something I have started to work on actively in classes. I saw a shit ton of that on the range last weekend at Paul-E

I wasn't one of those people was I? Would be good to know since it could be one of those unknown unknowns where you're just not aware you're making a dumb mistake.

Ever since the AIWB discussion thread, I think I've been indexing my trigger finger high and right under my engaged safety so that I can feel if it's not engaged, plus thumb the hammer, and look down into my holster as I put the gun back in. I don't think I shove my gun back in too hard, but if I missed anything and you saw something that is a potential safety concern it would highlight something I'd need to fix in dry fire.

[Alpha Sierra]

I trained myself out of the slamming the gun into holster syndrome by exaggerating the slow-mo reholster. To the point that ROs look at me strange (I'm sure) because of how slowly I reholster, particularly after making ready.

I also look at the holster while putting the gun back in 100% of the time.

[Chuck Haggard]

My analogy for reholstering is you should do it the way you would stop the car when coming up on a stop sign and you don't want to jostle your grandma in the passenger seat, ease to a stop, not do the retard thing and wait till the last second and jam on the brakes.

[scw2]

My analogy for reholstering is you should do it the way you would stop the car when coming up on a stop sign and you don't want to jostle your grandma in the passenger seat, ease to a stop, not do the retard thing and wait till the last second and jam on the brakes.

+1, will be sure to consciously slow down. I think doing all the manipulations plus looking the gun in force me to go slower, but better to be deliberately slower. No one wins a prize for being the first to reholster at the range.

[Default.mp3]

Great idea. (Get both).

Choices are good.

Edit for question: the CAT is the one w Velcro, right?
Yep, the CAT utilizes hook & loop: https://darkangelmedical.com/product/cat-combat-application-tourniquet/

[RJ]

Yep, the CAT utilizes hook & loop: https://darkangelmedical.com/product/cat-combat-application-tourniquet/

Thanks.

During the practical, we used the SOFT-T but I did recall our instructor mention the Velcro, relating to putting it on one handed/by yourself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JHC]

This young man would have had a much harder time killing himself had he been using a RCS VG2. [of course that would have required he had a Glock or M&P]

[Whirlwond06]

This young man would have had a much harder time killing himself had he been using a RCS VG2. [of course that would have required he had a Glock or M&P]

It wouldn't cool to be digging into his pants to get the clip and reassemble the holster. But I guess it is better then being dead.

[MVS]

This young man would have had a much harder time killing himself had he been using a RCS VG2. [of course that would have required he had a Glock or M&P]

Where am I missing that it said what type of holster he did use?

[JHC]

Where am I missing that it said what type of holster he did use?

He had a Springfield Armory pistol of some type so we know it was not a VG2 as I am pretty sure they are still only made for Glocks and M&Ps. I'm referring to the outside of the pants procedure to "re-holster" with the much maligned VG2.

[TAZ]

This young man would have had a much harder time killing himself had he been using a RCS VG2. [of course that would have required he had a Glock or M&P]

Unlikely. He probably wouldn't have read the instructions and or even followed them. As sad as it is to say, this isn't a hardware issue, but a software one.

[SamAdams]

In the Revolver section we discussed why someone might recommend a wheel-gun over a semi-auto to a new gun owner. It was pointed out that the vast majority of people will spend little time educating themselves on the weapon or actually shooting it. After reading other thoughtful replies, I did a websearch on NDs that resulted in fatalities. Of course, in many other instances the fatal injury occured when holstering a semi-auto. - - When discussing handgun choices with someone recently, I asked him if he realistically thought he would put in regular practice with his handgun and get training. He said "No, probably not. Not enough time." Though nothing is absolutely fool proof (even a long & heavy d.a. revolver trigger), for this guy a revolver is a better choice as a house gun & if he goes out and carries it (he does have a carry permit). That may even be true for the majority of the public. - Now as for them being effective with a revolver beyond spitting range, - that's a whole different matter.

[breakingtime91]

In the Revolver section we discussed why someone might recommend a wheel-gun over a semi-auto to a new gun owner. It was pointed out that the vast majority of people will spend little time educating themselves on the weapon or actually shooting it. After reading other thoughtful replies, I did a websearch on NDs that resulted in fatalities. Of course, in many other instances the fatal injury occured when holstering a semi-auto. - - When discussing handgun choices with someone recently, I asked him if he realistically thought he would put in regular practice with his handgun and get training. He said "No, probably not. Not enough time." Though nothing is absolutely fool proof (even a long & heavy d.a. revolver trigger), for this guy a revolver is a better choice as a house gun & if he goes out and carries it (he does have a carry permit). That may even be true for the majority of the public. - Now as for them being effective with a revolver beyond spitting range, - that's a whole different matter.

Completely agree with your recommendation. I have recommended revolvers to quite a few friends recently, especially ones that were looking to get there first concealed carry gun. I usually recommend something like the sp101 to people that are not going to train very often..

[Tamara]

In the Revolver section we discussed why someone might recommend a wheel-gun over a semi-auto to a new gun owner. It was pointed out that the vast majority of people will spend little time educating themselves on the weapon or actually shooting it. After reading other thoughtful replies, I did a websearch on NDs that resulted in fatalities. Of course, in many other instances the fatal injury occured when holstering a semi-auto. - - When discussing handgun choices with someone recently, I asked him if he realistically thought he would put in regular practice with his handgun and get training. He said "No, probably not. Not enough time." Though nothing is absolutely fool proof (even a long & heavy d.a. revolver trigger), for this guy a revolver is a better choice as a house gun & if he goes out and carries it (he does have a carry permit). That may even be true for the majority of the public. - Now as for them being effective with a revolver beyond spitting range, - that's a whole different matter.


People were shooting themselves with revolvers long before semis were invented.

(Although heavy DA triggers are some help, they can't stop someone determined to screw up. And DA/SA triggers wait until the re-holster and resultant forgetting to decock.)