Low Power Variables...to QD, or not to QD?

[Unobtanium]

What with the growing trend of Nightforce, Trijicon, Leupold, S&B, and other optics being used on carbines for arm's-length to 600+ yard engagement either in military, police, or civilian and "gaming" use, I wonder...has the LPV optic evolved to the point that one should "trust" it enough to "hard mount" it with say, a Nightforce Unimount or equivalent, or is it still a good idea to be able to "get it out of the way" by using a Bobro, LaRue, GDI, whatever mount, at the added expense of 2-4oz more weight and a slightly larger footprint? Is the QD mount a handicap...or is the "hardmount" a handicap? If you were going to war today with your LPV optic of choice...what would you mount it in?

For the sake of this question/discussion, let's not bring up offset irons/RDS/etc. that culminates in a "dual optic" type sighting arrangement. Right or wrong, like him or not, I'm with LAV when he says "Guns live in a vertical world".

[M2CattleCo]

I like the idea of QD mounts for the ability to swap optics when desired.

I used to keep an Aimpoint and a 1-4 in QD mounts and would use whichever one suited what I was doing at the time (HD, ranch, class, competition..)

Now I don't have an Aimpoint or even keep buis on my carbine for a few reasons.

1) I'm comfortable enough with the 1-4 at hallway distances.
2) My eyes never played well with Aimpoints, and are not getting better the further I slide into middle age. I'm an honest 50 yard shooter with an Aimpoint. I'm an honest 500 yard shooter on 4X.
3) If my LaRue mounts are adjusted to where I can easily remove it, it slides fore and aft on the rail. I crank 'em down 'til they don't move and they're not coming off easily.
4) I've had more little problems with buis than I ever have with optics. My current light setup is so snug against the rail (KMR) that buis won't fit. I trust my NXS 1-4(s) enough to depend on without a B plan.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I went to 45 degree offsets, and Really Slow Detach mounts.

I figure A) I never seem to need the sights anyway, and B) if I do, odds are probably good that I need them faster than I can quickly detach a mount.


But I have to admit that since it never seems to come up that I need them, I don't feel especially qualified to comment on how well this works.

[NickDrak]

My opinion is NO on QD scope mounts for variable power scopes on AR platform rifles.

First, because I believe that 45 degree off-set irons are a more viable/realistic option for emergency back-up iron sights than removing a snugged QD scope mount and flipping up the irons.

Secondly, because of weight. I think my current Warne X-SKEL mount weighs half of what my previous Bobro mount weighed.

[Unobtanium]

My opinion is NO on QD scope mounts for variable power scopes on AR platform rifles.

First, because I believe that 45 degree off-set irons are a more viable/realistic option for emergency back-up iron sights than removing a snugged QD scope mount and flipping up the irons.

Secondly, because of weight. I think my current Warne X-SKEL mount weighs half of what my previous Bobro mount weighed.
And idea what it actually weighs though? Just curious.

[voodoo_man]

It depends on your application.

All my mounts are QD. But I build my rifles flr use and not looking pretty or anything else.

While I am a fan of new development, the 45 degree offsets are only applicable to optics that do not have true 1x ability, in my opinion.

Edit; just to add, 45 degrees will catch on kit pretty easily if they are in the deployed position and your in the go.

[JHC]

My application is hunting mostly but I can't say no to the QD option. They've worked so well on/off I don't see why not. It satisfies my belt and suspenders OCD. I can't get interested in bolt guns without irons either.

[SLG]

I think you have to discuss offset sights when talking about this. I prefer a hard mount for the NF scope, and a Larue QD for the T1/2. If I didn't have the aimpoint on there, I would go with qd rings for the NF, and regular buis.

[00bullitt]

I don't take my scopes on and off and if I do, I use a Sekonk Torque Wrench to reinstall them. For repeatability sake with a NF UniMount, when torqued to the required 68 inch pounds, it will return to zero perfectly every time as will a Knight's mount. It is about utilizing consistent torque for repeatability. I like the slick approach and slight weight savings of the hard point mounts. For my magnified optics, I don't like flippy levers, but I do use the Larue LT724 for my T1 offset mount coupled with my 2.5-10x24.

With the popularity of offset iron sights, I see no reason to mount BUIS under my scope requiring its removal anymore. Knight's has a great set of folding offsets that tuck away and disappear until needed as does Magpul. The Knight's mount as well as the MIL-SPEC NF mounts have slotted crossbolt nuts for field expedient removal in a pinch. Prior to utilizing Knight's offset BUIS, I had some Troy folding sights mounted up under the ocular of my 1-4. To remove it, I could use the tab on my VTAC sling to loosen the slotted crossbolts if needed to access the BUIS. Granted, I think it would take an actual bullet to take the NF out of the fight; but none the less it was piece of mind.

When I run true 1x scopes, I typically utilize offset irons as my BUIS now. For 2.5-10's and even 4-16's, I use the Aimpount T1 as a complimentary sight and by nature it is a second sighting system which can be utilized as a backup should the magnified sight go down or vice versa.

Offset irons are even the focus of the US Army as the recent CSASS solicitation required them. SMU's and SOF have been using them for some time now. I can't say for certain, but I think the concept was brought more mainstream as a result of their use in 3 Gun.

[shane45]

I like QD. It gives me the option to reconfigure my rifles at will switching from RDS to low power variable or high power scope depending on what Im doing. I generally run low power variables that have 1x and a red dot capability. I like having the ability to quickly jettison the optic if, for example, I had a fall or something and totally fubared the scope.

[Lost River]

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/0075.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/0075.jpg.html)

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/SanitizedJan0608.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/SanitizedJan0608.jpg.html)

For roughly 4 years I ran a low powered variable on my work rifle in the middle east. I was running a VX3 1.5-5 with the illuminated reticle. It was in a Larue QD mount. It worked perfectly and if doing it over I would do the exact same thing over again. The QD allowed easy and fast access to my BUIS, though I never needed them. The scope saw a lot of hard use, and frequently was bounced around inside vehicles, with lots of other gear. QD makes sense.

[Unobtanium]

I don't take my scopes on and off and if I do, I use a Sekonk Torque Wrench to reinstall them. For repeatability sake with a NF UniMount, when torqued to the required 68 inch pounds, it will return to zero perfectly every time as will a Knight's mount. It is about utilizing consistent torque for repeatability. I like the slick approach and slight weight savings of the hard point mounts. For my magnified optics, I don't like flippy levers, but I do use the Larue LT724 for my T1 offset mount coupled with my 2.5-10x24.

With the popularity of offset iron sights, I see no reason to mount BUIS under my scope requiring its removal anymore. Knight's has a great set of folding offsets that tuck away and disappear until needed as does Magpul. The Knight's mount as well as the MIL-SPEC NF mounts have slotted crossbolt nuts for field expedient removal in a pinch. Prior to utilizing Knight's offset BUIS, I had some Troy folding sights mounted up under the ocular of my 1-4. To remove it, I could use the tab on my VTAC sling to loosen the slotted crossbolts if needed to access the BUIS. Granted, I think it would take an actual bullet to take the NF out of the fight; but none the less it was piece of mind.

When I run true 1x scopes, I typically utilize offset irons as my BUIS now. For 2.5-10's and even 4-16's, I use the Aimpount T1 as a complimentary sight and by nature it is a second sighting system which can be utilized as a backup should the magnified sight go down or vice versa.

Offset irons are even the focus of the US Army as the recent CSASS solicitation required them. SMU's and SOF have been using them for some time now. I can't say for certain, but I think the concept was brought more mainstream as a result of their use in 3 Gun.
Can one purchase a NF mil-spec mount nut?

[Unobtanium]

Finally found the weight for Warne mounts. They weigh the same as Bobro and LaRue, well, within 1oz.
http://warnescopemounts.com/product/xskel30-gen-2-extended-skeletonized-30mm-msr-mount/

[breakingtime91]

I use a larue qd and troy buis

[johnson]

Here's my Nightforce Unimount model A191 with 1.375" height for 30mm tubes. I would have no problem using something like a Bobro but the scope I'm using is already heavy as it is and they don't make anything lower than the 1.5" height.

edit:

I've always wondered why this question never comes up for the bolt guys. Is it because carbines are generally more abused and beat around or because QD/fixed doesn't really matter at all?

http://i.imgur.com/42K4OIN.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/0CHgd23.jpg

[HCM]

I've had good luck with the Aero precision mounts for a non QD - 3.2 oz.

http://aeroprecisionusa.com/ultralight-30mm-scope-mount.html

[HCM]

Something new coming from Geissele :

http://www.recoilweb.com/quiet-dod-geissele-project-revealed-super-precision-mount-74351.html

[Unobtanium]

Something new coming from Geissele :

http://www.recoilweb.com/quiet-dod-geissele-project-revealed-super-precision-mount-74351.html

It won't be here for another year. I chose to just procure a mil-spec NF Unimount, since I am going to be running a NF optic. I don't believe the Geissele would be lighter by much, if not heavier, and the NF mounts have a great reputation for working awesome, and on top of it, I like how the NF mounts are narrower. It places more friction on the scope tube, and NF makes both the mount, and the scope, so I know they will play well together regarding tq specs, etc.

That said, yeah, Aluminum Lithium is creeping into the AR world, just like 7075 did, both from the Aerospace community. Hodge's rifles, now Geissele's mounts.