Time it takes to run up the stairs.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

This has to do with campus carry. Let's say there is a critical incident of shooter in a classroom on the 4th floor of a building. It's a big one and the stairs are those with two flights and a landing for each floor.

The average officer - 20 to 30's, wearing a standard vest and perhaps carrying an AR, arrives. How much time to run up the 4 flights of stairs? I'm interested as we will debate this and the advice would be to call for help (interesting if the shooter has entered the lecture hall). Obviously, the officers have to arrive which eats more time but just the stairs is a figure I'm interested in. No, I won't try it as it would take me a day and a half.

[BehindBlueI's]

41.31 seconds for me, with a briefcase instead of a rifle. Not running but light jog and clearing as I went. I've done active shooter scenarios, including stairwell clearing.

12 stairs, landing, 13 stairs from floor to floor in my building.

[PD Sgt.]

Unless the officers are absolutely certain the incident is contained to a specific floor, they will not likely be charging up the stairs at a pace that risks outrunning their headlights, so to speak. They will be moving at a pace quick enough to get where they need to be while still making sure they are maintaining sufficient situational awareness so as not to be ambushed by the gunman (who may have relocated) or an accomplice. Nowadays there is the additional consideration of boobytraps set for likely avenues of approach for first responders.

All these considerations as well as other specific environmental factors (panicked citizens fleeing down the stairs for example) will serve to impact the speed officers arrive at a certain point in the structure.

[BJXDS]

This has to do with campus carry. Let's say there is a critical incident of shooter in a classroom on the 4th floor of a building. It's a big one and the stairs are those with two flights and a landing for each floor.

The average officer - 20 to 30's, wearing a standard vest and perhaps carrying an AR, arrives. How much time to run up the 4 flights of stairs? I'm interested as we will debate this and the advice would be to call for help (interesting if the shooter has entered the lecture hall). Obviously, the officers have to arrive which eats more time but just the stairs is a figure I'm interested in. No, I won't try it as it would take me a day and a half.

Anytime a person has to wait for some one else to save their life, is TO F*****G LONG!

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Thanks, my interest is to counter claims that our campus force (that is very good IMHO) will arrive in time to save you or reduce mass casualties. That is what is said when the issue of campus carry is mentioned. When I testified to the TX House, I made the point that our show case classroom was a death trap (that went over well). 4th floor, etc., no escape for those in it.

As far as a deliberate clearing, the building has so many hard cover nooks and crannies, it would take a division to clear it. Rows and rows of brick alcoves and pillars.

I don't know if such analyses will impress those against carry. Probably would just indicate that I was nuts for thinking about this, even though force once asked me to play terrorist in a FOF.

[Chance]

I'm interested as we will debate this and the advice would be to call for help (interesting if the shooter has entered the lecture hall).

I was thinking about this exact same thing earlier today, and it's odd that you mention it. My concern: who says your cell phone is going to work?

Some of the buildings on campus here are radiation shelters. I'm not being facetious: they were built in the fifties and sixties, and are literal radiation shelters. There is still the occasional sign up stating such - I spotted one outside our PE building (I'd love to pry it off, but who even knows what kind of trouble I'd get in.)

Unless you walk to the right spot on the floor of some of the older buildings, cell phone reception is iffy, at best. If you happen to be in the basement, forget about it.

[Gray222]

Depends on reg's, procedures and who responds.

You'll have officer's who respond who will hear gun shots, or get the 911 call of "shots fired on the 4th floor and will not head straight there, but wait at the front door for backup and/or to help people run out the door.

Some PD's/teams require a thorough clearing of floors before they make their way up.

I mean the possibilities are endless with a fourth floor active shooter scenario.

A few years ago I was part of an in school active shooter training for a regional swat team in DE and we did stairwells like the type you are referring to.

They are death traps for responding officers. You need a minimum of 3 officers who are totally confident in their ability or at least 4 who are okay in their ability (more eyes the better) - We consistently slaughtered two man crews and three man crews when they missed pockets and blind spots in stairwells.

It is definitely a situation I wouldn't want to find myself, especially if there is more than one shooter.