For 3rd Gen S&W lovers

[Hambo]

Jerry Miculek with a Performance Center 5906 made for Mexican SF, whoever they are. Unobtanium but as a DA/SA guy I want one...bad.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXwLi3qKD0w&feature=youtu.be

[Lyonsgrid]

Very cool gun. S&W made a few runs of melonited stainless guns. I wish they still made 3rd gen variants.

[GardoneVT]

Jerry Miculek with a Performance Center 5906 made for Mexican SF, whoever they are. Unobtanium but as a DA/SA guy I want one...bad.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXwLi3qKD0w&feature=youtu.be

As an owner of a 4006 I'll say they have drawbacks.

They're heavy, the logistical support is dodgy to nonexistent currently for specialized models, and the ergonomics make a Glock 17 Gen 3 feel like a P30.

Yet, if the shooter can work with the weight and ergos, fun is there to be had.

[RevolverRob]

As an owner of a 4006 I'll say they have drawbacks.

They're heavy, the logistical support is dodgy to nonexistent currently for specialized models, and the ergonomics make a Glock 17 Gen 3 feel like a P30.

Yet, if the shooter can work with the weight and ergos, fun is there to be had.

I'm just curious and I'm gonna sound like a real asshole when I say this but...Do you ever have anything positive to say?

I'm not going to point counter-point you on this one. I love 3rd Gen Smiths - A LOT. I would own more of them and carry them exclusively, if they had better parts availability. Unfortunately, Smith deciding to discontinue parts production means these guns are doomed to fade into obscurity, replaced by the infinitely inferior (in my not so humble opinion) M&P. Which means I have transitioned my semi-auto carry over to Kahrs, because they are in current production and parts are available. The Kahrs also have the best DAO triggers in the biz, comparable to the lovely DA stroke on my 3rd Gen Smiths.

-Rob

[SteveK]

The Performance Center also made a run of those in stainless with IDPAXXX serial numbers for their competition team and the public. They are 9mm made on the beefier 40 frame if I recall correctly. I have one and it is a dead accurate pistol. They are fitted with a Briley bushing.

[GJM]

As an owner of a 4006 I'll say they have drawbacks.

They're heavy, the logistical support is dodgy to nonexistent currently for specialized models, and the ergonomics make a Glock 17 Gen 3 feel like a P30.

Yet, if the shooter can work with the weight and ergos, fun is there to be had.

As someone who owns 3 10mm, 1 .45 and two 9mm models, I think this is a pretty fair assessment.

[Hambo]

As an owner of a 4006 I'll say they have drawbacks.
They're heavy, the logistical support is dodgy to nonexistent currently for specialized models, and the ergonomics make a Glock 17 Gen 3 feel like a P30.
Yet, if the shooter can work with the weight and ergos, fun is there to be had.

Well, what's that in the punch bowl? ;)

[Irelander]

Yooooo...!

[Gary1911A1]

I just have a regulate 5906 and 5903 and like both of them a lot. I would like to have a Performance Center one too.

[JSGlock34]

The S&W 3rd Generation guns were the pistols of my youth. My first pistol was a 5903, purchased in the early 90s. My extensive research (which consisted of a steady diet of Handguns, Combat Handguns and Guns & Ammo) on 9mm handguns at the time had indicated that the Beretta M9 was prone to spontaneously exploding (several writers were getting serious mileage out of the few slide fracturing incidents) and Glocks were still weird guns with weird plastic frames and weird triggers. With ambitions of joining the military but not seeking to purchase such a maligned sidearm, I decided to purchase a 3rd generation S&W since the DA/SA trigger and slide mounted hammer drop safety essentially matched the Beretta's manual of arms. The 5903 proved sufficiently accurate and reliable but I eventually sold it to the Battalion Sergeant Major when my attention turned to Glock pistols.

A buddy liked my 5903 enough that he bought a S&W 915, which he eventually traded for a Glock 17. Many years later, the same buddy received a mint S&W 4506 from an uncle who was no longer shooting. Since the 4506 came complete with a Galco Miami Classic shoulder holster, we could only assume that someone was receiving his firearms advice from a serious Miami Vice fan.

Which I am totally okay with. I've got dibs on the 4506 if it ever goes up for sale. It probably has 200 rounds through it...

http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h434/Lifeguard2005/crockett-s_zpsf956412d.jpg

Gotta love late 80s Galco marketing...

http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h434/Lifeguard2005/IMG_0089_zpsd89d9c8b.jpg

[BigDaddy]

I agree. I own two Smiths,a 6906 and a 4506. That 6906 has the best trigger on any gun I own or have ever shot not including my 1911. Great guns. We used them extensively back in the day and I'm not talking about range time. The 3rd Gen Smiths never let us down.

[Peally]

I agree. I own two Smiths,a 6906 and a 4506. That 6906 has the best trigger on any gun I own or have ever shot not including my 1911. Great guns. We used them extensively back in the day and I'm not talking about range time. The 3rd Gen Smiths never let us down.

My old man owns the same two. Both are massive and like bricks in my hand, but they both run like a top. I started shooting competitively with that 4506 and aside from pulling your pants down to your ankles it also doubled as a handy mace.

[Sal Picante]

I find it funny... These days competition shooters are returning to heavy, accurate DA/SA guns: CZ, Tanfo, Sig X5, Sphinx?

I always liked the brick-kitten-house build of the Gen3 S&W's... Helluva great gun...

[JTQ]

I have a 4506 I bought new in the late 1980's. It is a solid, dependable gun, but the ergonomics are not as good as the 1911 I bought about a year later. Due to my preference for the 1911, my 4506 has very low mileage.

An observation I like to make with every S&W TDA, Ruger P-Series, and Beretta 92FS/M9 (three TDA designs with slide mounted safety/decockers) threads I see on forums. With the S&W TDA's and Ruger P-Series guns you always read posts such as "solid, built like a tank, reliable, will feed anything, etc…"

Conversely, you typically can't get five posts into a Beretta 92FS/M9 thread without the inevitable "that awful, backwards operating, safety." You can read pages and pages of thread on S&W TDA guns and Ruger P-Series guns an never see a mention of the safety lever. Apparently, people have no trouble operating the S&W and Ruger safety's, but the Beretta version, which operates identically to the other two designs, is unworkable.:)

[Gary1911A1]

I could blame this thread, but I decided to get a 4506 I saw on GunBroker. It's an early one before S&W put Novak rear Sights on them.
http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/498897000/498897194/pix418884863.jpg

[GardoneVT]

Conversely, you typically can't get five posts into a Beretta 92FS/M9 thread without the inevitable "that awful, backwards operating, safety." You can read pages and pages of thread on S&W TDA guns and Ruger P-Series guns an never see a mention of the safety lever. Apparently, people have no trouble operating the S&W and Ruger safety's, but the Beretta version, which operates identically to the other two designs, is unworkable.:)
That is because the design is NOT identical.

Sure they operate similarly, but the 92 has a crucial difference(some might say flaw): because the 92 originally was a Condition 1 pistol modified to accomodate a slide mounted safety , the safety lever is VERY small in size compared to the 3rd Gen Smiths and P series Rugers. Small levers = unworkable for most people without big thumbs or the Langdon surname.

[Alpha Sierra]

Smart users just flick the safety off just after decocking

[JSGlock34]

One interesting aspect of the 3rd Generation S&W line is the number of trigger/safety variants. Models such as the 5926 or 1076 mimicked the SIG-Sauer decocking lever...

http://www.thespecialistsltd.com/files/SW_1076.jpg

Later, S&W would offer pistols (like the 4566) with a slide mounted decocker only, similar to the Beretta 92 'G' series. Note the warning markings added to the slide.

http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/9134/10199224_3.jpg?v=8CD9C3E585B6CC0

And besides the DAO versions, the Performance Center even made some third generation pistols into single action designs like the elegant 952 and the very 1911-esque Model 945...

[JDM]

Weren't there some "DAO" Smiths with a precocked DA trigger similar to HK's LEM?

[Hambo]

Weren't there some "DAO" Smiths with a precocked DA trigger similar to HK's LEM?

Yep. I bought my wife a 5943 (blued slide) back in the day.

[JR1572]

Yep. I bought my wife a 5943 (blued slide) back in the day.

Back when my dad had a gun shop in the mid to late 90's, I remember a distributor selling NIB 5943's for $199 with 1 15 round mecgar magazine. Those sold very quickly.

JR1572

[GJM]

Society is getting dumbed down. Now, the "smart" shooters can recite the Glock models and explain what size and caliber each model represents. In the good ole days, you had to learn what the 3 and 4 numbers of the S&W auto pistol line represented.

[Lyonsgrid]

I've always loved 3rd Gens......they just don't love me in return.

[45dotACP]

Society is getting dumbed down. Now, the "smart" shooters can recite the Glock models and explain what size and caliber each model represents. In the good ole days, you had to learn what the 3 and 4 numbers of the S&W auto pistol line represented.
Damn millenials...

I wish 3rd gens were still in production though. :(

Sent from my VS876 using Tapatalk

[GardoneVT]

Damn millenials...



This millenial knows the difference between a 5926 and a 5903, thank you kind sir.

[45dotACP]

This millenial knows the difference between a 5926 and a 5903, thank you kind sir.

Heh, I don't. And I'm a millenial. :P

I'd buy one if they were being made by the factory but there are other fish in the sea now if one is looking for a good quality DA/SA at a good price. Time has left the 3rd gen smiths and their sense of ergonomics (or lack thereof) in the dust. There are too many options not to buy something that you like.

On a tangent here, but I tend to grip a gun so hard my hands are sore at the end of a range session, so I wonder sometimes how important it is to have a gun that is "ergonomic"

[MD7305]

My first exposure to centerfire handguns was with a 5926 about 1994-95ish at the ripe age of 12. I was totally hooked and from then on had a special appreciation for 3rd gen guns although the only one I ever owned was a 4040PD (wish I hadn't sold it). In this a area, like many others, the 3rd gen was THE cop gun. The regional academy I instruct at has a very small agency that still issues 5906s, very old worn 5906s. It's hard to say how many rounds those guns have shot and this agency is a "stepping stone" type place so it's very likey the same gun is repeatedly returning class after class with probably no maintenance. I've never seen one of those 5906s malfunction, it's of course only a matter of time but the guns surprise me. In a room full of Glocks, M&Ps, and a couple Sigs it seems that one 5906 refuses to disappear.

[GardoneVT]

Heh, I don't. And I'm a millenial. :P



There's still time to square yourself away...;)




http://loungecdn.luckygunner.com/lounge/media/SW-semi-model-chart-1.jpg

Insofar as the company making them new again.......BWAHahahahahaha.....'scuse me, let me catch my breath....BWAHahahahahah....OK.


Have you guys SEEN the average guy/gal at the local gun range nowadays ? What makes you all believe Mr Cerakote XD will ever appreciate a piece like a 1006?

[HCM]

There was a thread over on M4C recently asking about interest in a one time production run of third-generation Smith auto with a melonite finish.

[DpdG]

My first issued duty gun was a 4566, factory melonite with decock only controls. Purchased it after we switched to M&P45's, but subsequently sold it. That gun was incredibly reliable, especially since I was in a maritime environment, but in my hands it was not particularly accurate. No fault of the gun, but I need a grip with more girth.

Like most gun sales, wish I still had it. Sentimental value and all...


-G

[Lyonsgrid]

Thread needs more pics...

3795

3796

[RevolverRob]

There was a thread over on M4C recently asking about interest in a one time production run of third-generation Smith auto with a melonite finish.

9mm? With or without the TSW rail? Standard setup or Briley-bushed? Bobbed hammer? What frame size? Come on now - don't leave us hanging.

-Rob

[JSGlock34]

Here's the thread...

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?169869-Would-anyone-else-like-to-see-the-old-S-amp-W-GEN-3-pistols-comeback

[MD7305]

I love those square-trigger guard guns.

[JTQ]

I didn't read the M4 thread, and if this is mentioned in there, I apologize, but the tooling must still be around at S&W since WV State Police got 750, 4566 TSW's back in 2011.

http://www.policemag.com/channel/weapons/news/2011/08/16/west-virginia-state-police-and-wyoming-highway-patrol-adopt-s-w-pistols.aspx

[Hambo]

The big chart left out the suffixes for some models. My wife's was actually a 5943SSV (short slide variant) with a blued slide and 3.5" barrel. I nearly bought its big brother, a two-tone .45.

[Lon]

Never mind.

[JTQ]

That is because the design is NOT identical.

Sure they operate similarly, but the 92 has a crucial difference(some might say flaw): because the 92 originally was a Condition 1 pistol modified to accomodate a slide mounted safety , the safety lever is VERY small in size compared to the 3rd Gen Smiths and P series Rugers. Small levers = unworkable for most people without big thumbs or the Langdon surname.
Does anybody offer a larger size safety to correct this problem on the Beretta 92FS? If so, is it a popular modification?

Can you get a smaller, or maybe even a single sided safety for the Beretta 92FS? If so, is this a popular, or maybe even recommended modification to the Beretta 92FS?

[JSGlock34]

Wilson Combat offers a low profile, single side, safety lever for the Beretta 92. Several members have had these installed, but my impression is that a 'G' model or conversion is the more popular option for those who do not like the 92 FS safety.

Wilson Combat Custom Carry Lo-Profile (Single) Lever Safety/De-Cocker | Beretta 92/96 F/FS Model (http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Wilson-Combat-Custom-Carry-Lo-Profile-Single-Lever-Safety_De-Cocker-Beretta-92_96-F_FS-Model/productinfo/636/)

http://shopwilsoncombat.com/images/636-001.jpg

[HCM]

I didn't read the M4 thread, and if this is mentioned in there, I apologize, but the tooling must still be around at S&W since WV State Police got 750, 4566 TSW's back in 2011.

http://www.policemag.com/channel/weapons/news/2011/08/16/west-virginia-state-police-and-wyoming-highway-patrol-adopt-s-w-pistols.aspx

The Smith and Wesson 5946 is still an optional duty gun for the NYPD. Last time I checked it was the second most popular option after the Glock 19, with the SIG P226 DAO a rather distant third. I believe the RCMP still carries the 5946 and 3953 as well.

[farscott]

The Smith and Wesson 5946 is still an optional duty gun for the NYPD. Last time I checked it was the second most popular option after the Glock 19, with the SIG P226 DAO a rather distant third. I believe the RCMP still carries the 5946 and 3953 as well.

I have also heard that about the 5946, and I frankly wonder why. The 5946 is a lot heavier than the Glock 19, so I figured that incoming NYPD officers would opt for the lighter guns. Is the 5946 less expensive that the SIG option? I like the steel-framed 3rd Generation 9x19 guns, but I am strange that way. The first version of the DAO guns has a great trigger due to a unique frame and slide for the DAO models. Later S&W modified the design so that the DAO and TDA guns shared the same frames and slides. The bad side effect is less leverage for the trigger on the DAO hammer compared to the original models, making the trigger force to fire the gun higher.

Of course, being NYPD I assume they all have rather stout trigger pulls.

[Hambo]

Does anybody offer a larger size safety to correct this problem on the Beretta 92FS? If so, is it a popular modification?


I don't have a 3rd Gen to compare to my 92, but my perception was that the decockers were about the same size.

[Sigfan26]

I don't have a 3rd Gen to compare to my 92, but my perception was that the decockers were about the same size.

Very close, but with deeper serrations that go all the way around it and hurt like hell when you do an overhand rack

[HCM]

I have also heard that about the 5946, and I frankly wonder why. The 5946 is a lot heavier than the Glock 19, so I figured that incoming NYPD officers would opt for the lighter guns. Is the 5946 less expensive that the SIG option? I like the steel-framed 3rd Generation 9x19 guns, but I am strange that way. The first version of the DAO guns has a great trigger due to a unique frame and slide for the DAO models. Later S&W modified the design so that the DAO and TDA guns shared the same frames and slides. The bad side effect is less leverage for the trigger on the DAO hammer compared to the original models, making the trigger force to fire the gun higher.

Of course, being NYPD I assume they all have rather stout trigger pulls.

I havent seen or handled one of the shared frame guns but 10-15 years ago the 5946 had a much better trigger than the 12 -14 pound staple gun trigger in the Glock 19's. A lot of guys coming off revolvers went for the 5946 and a 3953 or a Kahr K-9 rather than the Glock. They use the NY Plus - 8lb connector with the plasctic leaf syle NY trigger spring. My recollection might be off but I seem to recall they had an orange NY spring rather than the traditional olive color.

[HCM]

Does anybody offer a larger size safety to correct this problem on the Beretta 92FS? If so, is it a popular modification?

Can you get a smaller, or maybe even a single sided safety for the Beretta 92FS? If so, is this a popular, or maybe even recommended modification to the Beretta 92FS?

The safety of the Beretta 92 series is spring loaded. If the gun is on safe, you just need to get it started and it will do the rest by itself. If you start with your thumb straight up like a hitchhiker as you grip the gun and then wipe it down like you were taking a 1911 or AR off safe the safety will come off even if you just catch the tip.

I don't recall if the S&W or Ruger safeties are spring loaded.

[Joe in PNG]

My 5946 is about the same size as my 92D Centurion.

[LangdonTactical]

S&W made a ton of cool guns over the years. It is really too bad that they dropped the 3rd Gen guns all together.

[SLG]

The Smith is the second most popular NYPD gun only because of availability. The Sig was not an option for a number of years, so it dwindled, while the 19 and 5946 gained. The Sig was always considered the gun for people in the know, in NY at least. All duty guns are free to NYPD cops, so cost is not a factor. Also, as noted above, the 5946 has a pretty nice DAO trigger. Much nicer than the NYplus 19. The only flaw with the trigger is that it breaks so far back in the guard, its about impossible to not hit the frame with your finger.

[farscott]

The Smith is the second most popular NYPD gun only because of availability. The Sig was not an option for a number of years, so it dwindled, while the 19 and 5946 gained. The Sig was always considered the gun for people in the know, in NY at least. All duty guns are free to NYPD cops, so cost is not a factor. Also, as noted above, the 5946 has a pretty nice DAO trigger. Much nicer than the NYplus 19. The only flaw with the trigger is that it breaks so far back in the guard, its about impossible to not hit the frame with your finger.

Did something change? I thought NYPD officers bought their choice(s) of the weapons on the list (duty and off-duty) from approved dealers.

[HCM]

Did something change? I thought NYPD officers bought their choice(s) of the weapons on the list (duty and off-duty) from approved dealers.

Yes, last I heard they bought them from the NYPD Academy equipment section. It was rolled into the intial lump sum payment for uniforms and equipment recruits were required to make early in the academy. It used to be about $2000.

[HCM]

Honolulu just melted down 2300 5906's to " keep them off the streets" and passed on $575,000 in potential trade in value.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/08/31/anti-gun-stupidity-honolulu-destroys-575g-worth-police-firearms/


Second Amendment advocates are firing away at a decision by Honolulu officials to destroy $575,000 worth of perfectly good handguns in a move one critic called the “height of anti-gun stupidity.”

Some 2,300 Smith & Wesson 9 mm handguns, including at least 200 that are brand-new and in unopened boxes, were issued to the city’s police department. But with the 2,200-member force upgrading to lighter and less expensive Glock 17s, the guns were set to be permanently holstered. While it is customary throughout the country for departments to auction the guns to law-abiding citizens, including the police who once carried them, or donate them to another department, Honolulu opted to destroy them.

[Stephanie B]

6946:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9HInF2h1ycY/VTWPIkBphJI/AAAAAAAAF70/MTbJjh9cqgY/s320/6946.JPG

Probably one of the better deals I've made in ages. it's almost like having a 13-shot .38.

[HCM]

6946:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9HInF2h1ycY/VTWPIkBphJI/AAAAAAAAF70/MTbJjh9cqgY/s320/6946.JPG

Probably one of the better deals I've made in ages. it's almost like having a 13-shot .38.
That was the U.S. Customs duty gun between revolvers and the Glock 9mm's.

[ssb]

Maybe this is just me being stupid, but I could see one of the compact 39-series guns being worthwhile to re-introduce. Aggressive marketing towards CCW, size similar to a P239 or the P225 that SIG's coming out with as well as the Walther CCP, good QC, maybe throw M&P dovetails on the slide... It'd probably be a hit in places like California and Massachusetts, and in a lot of ways (flat, DA/SA or good DAO, G19-ish size) it makes sense as a CCW gun.

[HCM]

Maybe this is just me being stupid, but I could see one of the compact 39-series guns being worthwhile to re-introduce. Aggressive marketing towards CCW, size similar to a P239 or the P225 that SIG's coming out with as well as the Walther CCP, good QC, maybe throw M&P dovetails on the slide... It'd probably be a hit in places like California and Massachusetts, and in a lot of ways (flat, DA/SA or good DAO, G19-ish size) it makes sense as a CCW gun.

My understanding was the gun proposed over on M4C was a 3913/3914 with a melonite finish and possibly a light rail.

[LSP972]

I havent seen or handled one of the shared frame guns but 10-15 years ago the 5946 had a much better trigger than the 12 -14 pound staple gun trigger in the Glock 19's. A lot of guys coming off revolvers went for the 5946 and a 3953 or a Kahr K-9 rather than the Glock. They use the NY Plus - 8lb connector with the plasctic leaf syle NY trigger spring. My recollection might be off but I seem to recall they had an orange NY spring rather than the traditional olive color.

Orange and olive are the current "colors". The original New York springs were black and white; both produced horrendous pulls. I still have a few of those; they were in the parts box Glock supplied us in 1992 with the original T&E pistols.

.

[Hambo]

Honolulu just melted down 2300 5906's to " keep them off the streets" and passed on $575,000 in potential trade in value.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/08/31/anti-gun-stupidity-honolulu-destroys-575g-worth-police-firearms/

Municipal stupidity still raises my blood pressure. "Keep them off the streets." Give me a break. Was the city's only alternative to trade-in issuing them to Crips and Bloods? So the people of Honolulu lose $600K.

[farscott]

My understanding was the gun proposed over on M4C was a 3913/3914 with a melonite finish and possibly a light rail.

I cannot see S&W being able to make the 391x at a price point where it would sell. After all, the used guns in very good condition trade for as little as $400. S&W sold those guns "back in the day" for more than $600. MSRP on the 3913NL in 1990 was $640. Twenty-five years later, MSRP would have to be near $1,000. Using fed.gov inflation figures $640 in 1990 is $1,168.54 today. Figure S&W has learned enough to get the costs down to $1000 MSRP. That still has the gun with a street price of more than $800 with taxes. That is a tough sell when compared to a Glock 43.

[camsdaddy]

I cannot see S&W being able to make the 391x at a price point where it would sell. After all, the used guns in very good condition trade for as little as $400. S&W sold those guns "back in the day" for more than $600. MSRP on the 3913NL in 1990 was $640. Twenty-five years later, MSRP would have to be near $1,000. Using fed.gov inflation figures $640 in 1990 is $1,168.54 today. Figure S&W has learned enough to get the costs down to $1000 MSRP. That still has the gun with a street price of more than $800 with taxes. That is a tough sell when compared to a Glock 43.

First gun I ever purchased was a 3913 TSW without a rail. The gun served me well as my carry gun and only gun for years. I take it out and shoot it every couple of years but that's as far as she has gotten in years. Squishy DA trigger and crisp SA.

[Blayglock]

Maybe this is just me being stupid, but I could see one of the compact 39-series guns being worthwhile to re-introduce. Aggressive marketing towards CCW, size similar to a P239 or the P225 that SIG's coming out with as well as the Walther CCP, good QC, maybe throw M&P dovetails on the slide... It'd probably be a hit in places like California and Massachusetts, and in a lot of ways (flat, DA/SA or good DAO, G19-ish size) it makes sense as a CCW gun.
Not stupid at all IMO. My wife carried a 3913 for a while. Very cool gun.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[HCM]

I cannot see S&W being able to make the 391x at a price point where it would sell. After all, the used guns in very good condition trade for as little as $400. S&W sold those guns "back in the day" for more than $600. MSRP on the 3913NL in 1990 was $640. Twenty-five years later, MSRP would have to be near $1,000. Using fed.gov inflation figures $640 in 1990 is $1,168.54 today. Figure S&W has learned enough to get the costs down to $1000 MSRP. That still has the gun with a street price of more than $800 with taxes. That is a tough sell when compared to a Glock 43.

I don't know if this would be a regular production item or just a limited run. I'm thinking maybe they found a big stash of parts somewhere ?

[GardoneVT]

I don't know if this would be a regular production item or just a limited run. I'm thinking maybe they found a big stash of parts somewhere ?

Unless S&W finds a way to engineer a microstamp system into the gun, it won't be sold in CA on account of the roster.

Which is just as well, because it won't sell anywhere else either. To the masses ,a 1.5 lb 'concealed carry' gun with a trigger heavier then a bank vault door and a sub-12 round capacity shares the same market appeal as a flat tire.

Considering the labor involved in making a 3rd Gen as we like them and the general rise in capital costs since the 90's,one of two things would happen; either the price would be a joke or the build quality would be the punchline.

[Alpha Sierra]

Considering the labor involved in making a 3rd Gen as we like them and the general rise in capital costs since the 90's,one of two things would happen; either the price would be a joke or the build quality would be the punchline.

Funny how CZ can churn out P-01s and 75D Compacts for Glock prices and high quality

[LittleLebowski]

Funny how CZ can churn out P-01s and 75D Compacts for Glock prices and high quality

Are we not considering the differences between factories/labor costs in the US and a poorer part of Europe?

[Alpha Sierra]

Are we not considering the differences between factories/labor costs in the US and a poorer part of Europe?

The Czech Republic is no longer a poor country and hasn't been for some time. Based on the data that I've looked up, Czech labor cost (in index points) is nearly identical to that of the USA (107.78 vs 107.26 respectively)

I will grant you that it would be hard to find higher labor costs than that of a unionized work force in Massachusetts. Maybe Germany.......

[farscott]

The 5906 has about 20 more separate parts (about 82, depending upon variant) than the CZ-75B (about 62), so the differences in cost are due to more than just labor costs.

[Alpha Sierra]

The 5906 has about 20 more separate parts (about 82, depending upon variant) than the CZ-75B (about 62), so the differences in cost are due to more than just labor costs.
If S&W wanted, an engineering effort can simplify that. CZ did it with their Omega trigger system.

[farscott]

If S&W wanted, an engineering effort can simplify that. CZ did it with their Omega trigger system.

That would indeed decrease the variable parts costs, but the development NRE would need to be recovered. In my experience, NRE costs would result in higher costs to the consumer unless production volumes were much more than a few thousand guns. $100,000 in NRE for 1,000 guns is a cost of $100. By the time that is amortized and ROI targets are met, the end customer will pay $300 more per unit.

S&W stopped offering the 3rd Generation guns to the public because they were no longer profitable enough to make in the volumes selling. They support portions of the LE market with the 3rd Generation guns to prove to their LE customers that S&W is a true partner to LE agencies and to stop Glock or SIG from winning more agencies.

[Alpha Sierra]

That would indeed decrease the variable parts costs, but the development NRE would need to be recovered. In my experience, NRE costs would result in higher costs to the consumer unless production volumes were much more than a few thousand guns. $100,000 in NRE for 1,000 guns is a cost of $100. By the time that is amortized and ROI targets are met, the end customer will pay $300 more per unit.

S&W stopped offering the 3rd Generation guns to the public because they were no longer profitable enough to make in the volumes selling. They support portions of the LE market with the 3rd Generation guns to prove to their LE customers that S&W is a true partner to LE agencies and to stop Glock or SIG from winning more agencies.

I agree with all that. Truthfully, I'm not one of the forum members who lovingly longs for their return. Their ergos are so so and the double action trigger is horrid, even though the single action break is pretty sweet and their average accuracy is decent.

[LSP972]

If S&W wanted, an engineering effort can simplify that.

Doubtful. If S&W designed a fork, it would have at least three moving parts.

.

[Mark]

I think the Beretta safety is very well placed and very intuitive. If the safety is on my thumb rides against it painfully. All I have to do is a slight swipe as I grip it and it clicks off. It's as easy for me as a 1911 safety but actually moves the gun less when I disengage it. I do have to alter my grip to decock, but not much, less then for a mag change for example. My hands aren't huge but they're probably bigger then normal, what do you guys have? Little girl hands?

[LSP972]

I think the Beretta safety is very well placed and very intuitive. If the safety is on my thumb rides against it painfully. All I have to do is a slight swipe as I grip it and it clicks off. It's as easy for me as a 1911 safety but actually moves the gun less when I disengage it. I do have to alter my grip to decock, but not much, less then for a mag change for example. My hands aren't huge but they're probably bigger then normal, what do you guys have? Little girl hands?

Hand size has little to do with what we were talking about regarding the Walther type safety.

When manipulating the slide via the "pinch" or "slingshot" method, it is quite easy to inadvertantly move the safety lever down- on safe- without realizing it. I can do that just as easily with my little girl hands as you can with your more manly hands.

Of course, once you have accomplished this mis-manipulation, THEN one's ability to take the piece off safe comes into play.

Here's a hint; try de-cocking with your off hand thumb. You won't have to alter your grip, slightly or otherwise.;)

.

[Alpha Sierra]

If S&W designed a fork, it would have at least three moving parts.

Imma borrow that for work........;)

[LSP972]

Imma borrow that for work........;)

By all means, help yourself…:D

.

[JR1572]

I know where there are 2 used 5906's with adjustable sights and round trigger guards in the NOLA area for $325 each.

They look rough.

JR1572

[SLG]

Yes, last I heard they bought them from the NYPD Academy equipment section. It was rolled into the intial lump sum payment for uniforms and equipment recruits were required to make early in the academy. It used to be about $2000.

Well, you may know better, but I didn't pay for mine.

[SJC3081]

I realize that 3rd gen Smiths surely don't have the longevity or the comfort of carry the of G17 or 19. But if you need a pistol that will absolutely fucking go bang when you pull the trigger they can't be beat.

[Bigghoss]

NOS 5946 for $680 on GB.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/896444502

[kwb377]

Stopped by an LGS today that had several police trade-in 4046's (looked to be in good shape) for $350.

I carried one for awhile, but I'm not nostalgic enough about it to want to but one. I am, however, still trying to cajole my father into selling me back my old duty 4506 I sold to him 20 or so years ago.

[OlongJohnson]

NOS 5946 for $680 on GB.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/896444502

The smoothest 3rd-gen DA I've ever felt was a late-batch 5946 at the local Cabela's in maybe 2016-2017. Almost bought it. $680 was a decent price for a ANIB version even pre-Covid.

[Joe in PNG]

I bought a 5946 about the same time I got my 92D, and liked the trigger on the pizzagun a whole lot more- plus the fact that the Beretta resets for dry fire. Traded the Smif for another Beretta.

[Bigghoss]

The smoothest 3rd-gen DA I've ever felt was a late-batch 5946 at the local Cabela's in maybe 2016-2017. Almost bought it. $680 was a decent price for a ANIB version even pre-Covid.

When I first saw it I legit went to check my bank balance. Then I realized I didn't really want an almost $700 pristine survivor. I want something with some wear on it that I'm not going to feel weird about shooting and like I have to handle it with kid gloves.

[MattyD380]

I bought a 5946 about the same time I got my 92D, and liked the trigger on the pizzagun a whole lot more- plus the fact that the Beretta resets for dry fire. Traded the Smif for another Beretta.

Everyone seems to rave about the 92D trigger. On the DA/SA Berettas I’ve had (never had a D), I personally felt the DA pull left a lot to be desired vs. Sigs and 3rd gens. Stacking and a lot of overtravel. Even with my PX4cc, I find it difficult to keep the gun stable when the hammer falls in DA (I have a EP trigger bar which I still need to install—hoping that improves it).

So is the DA pull on a 92D different from the DA pull on a DA/SA 92? Or is it just me?

[Rex G]

Everyone seems to rave about the 92D trigger. On the DA/SA Berettas I’ve had (never had a D), I personally felt the DA pull left a lot to be desired vs. Sigs and 3rd gens. Stacking and a lot of overtravel. Even with my PX4cc, I find it difficult to keep the gun stable when the hammer falls in DA (I have a EP trigger bar which I still need to install—hoping that improves it).

So is the DA pull on a 92D different from the DA pull on a DA/SA 92? Or is it just me?

When I handled a 92D, yes, the trigger stroke was absolute nirvana. At the time, however, no slim grips existed for the 92, so any 92 was a no-go, for me. I did end up with a single-stack S&W 3953, though it went to live with a dear friend, some time after I entered another all-1911-or-revolver phase.

It is quite interesting to speculate what might have been, in my personal gun-totin’ habits, had slim grips existed for the Beretta 92, back then.

Edited to add: When I discovered the slimmer factory SIG trigger option, that finally allowed me to reach the trigger in the forward/DA position, the weapon happened to be a P229 DAK, newly-available in 2004. This started a long, happy time, with DAK, which lasted until the high-bore-axis, combined with the fast-accelerating .40 S&W, the light alloy frame, and my advancing arthritis, started becoming vexing. SIG never made DAK-compatible all-stainless steel frames, so, eventually, I got away from SIG DAK, for duty/carry.

[jd950]

Everyone seems to rave about the 92D trigger. On the DA/SA Berettas I’ve had (never had a D), I personally felt the DA pull left a lot to be desired vs. Sigs and 3rd gens. Stacking and a lot of overtravel. Even with my PX4cc, I find it difficult to keep the gun stable when the hammer falls in DA (I have a EP trigger bar which I still need to install—hoping that improves it).

So is the DA pull on a 92D different from the DA pull on a DA/SA 92? Or is it just me?

There are brand-brand, model-model and specimen-specimen differences, but often, the DAO triggers are better than the DA stroke in a DA/SA gun. This is obviously true in a DAK or LEM and I find it to be generally true in the 3rd gen S&W guns and the Beretta 92. The PX4 was offered in a Type C that much better than the DFA/SA or DAO models. More specific to your question, I find a stock DA trigger on a 92 to be a typical mediocre DA trigger pull and the stock trigger on a 92D to be very good.

I am primarily talking about weight/resistance, smoothness and travel distance. Offhand I don't think I have noticed a difference in overtravel or stacking. Others probably have more detailed information.

[jd950]

When I handled a 92D, yes, the trigger stroke was absolute nirvana. At the time, however, no slim grips existed for the 92, so any 92 was a no-go, for me. I did end up with a single-stack S&W 3953, though it went to live with a dear friend, some time after I entered another all-1911-or-revolver phase.

It is quite interesting to speculate what might have been, in my personal gun-totin’ habits, had slim grips existed for the Beretta 92, back then.

Edited to add: When I discovered the slimmer factory SIG trigger option, that finally allowed me to reach the trigger in the forward/DA position, the weapon happened to be a P229 DAK, newly-available in 2004. This started a long, happy time, with DAK, which lasted until the high-bore-axis, combined with the fast-accelerating .40 S&W, the light alloy frame, and my advancing arthritis, started becoming vexing. SIG never made DAK-compatible all-stainless steel frames, so, eventually, I got away from SIG DAK, for duty/carry.

I have wondered from time to time about seeing if I could DAK convert a stainless gun but have not gotten around to checking the frames. I have a few conversion kits and a few stainless guns. Are you pretty confident that they are not DAK compatible?

[OlongJohnson]

Edited to add: When I discovered the slimmer factory SIG trigger option, that finally allowed me to reach the trigger in the forward/DA position, ...

I keep a spare long-reach trigger on hand, just in case the next classic Sig I buy has the wrong one in it.

[MattyD380]

More specific to your question, I find a stock DA trigger on a 92 to be a typical mediocre DA trigger pull and the stock trigger on a 92D to be very good.

Gotcha. Thanks for the insight.

My 92Cs DA trigger was especially bad. I read that wear on the stock trigger bar could cause a burr that would... make the DA pull crappy. I sold it, intending to replace it with a FS 92. Just never got around to it.

[TheNewbie]

Gotcha. Thanks for the insight.

My 92Cs DA trigger was especially bad. I read that wear on the stock trigger bar could cause a burr that would... make the DA pull crappy. I sold it, intending to replace it with a FS 92. Just never got around to it.


Did you ever try a D spring in it?

[MattyD380]

Did you ever try a D spring in it?

I had the Wilson Combat spring that was, like, the poundage-equivalent of the D spring. Or maybe even less?

Didn't seem like an issue of pull weight, per se. It just felt like it hung up on something... then overtraveled the __ck out of all that energy. And I'd miss.

If that makes any sense...

[Rex G]

I have wondered from time to time about seeing if I could DAK convert a stainless gun but have not gotten around to checking the frames. I have a few conversion kits and a few stainless guns. Are you pretty confident that they are not DAK compatible?

It is possible to convert a stainless frame to DAK, but it takes some ‘smithing. Bruce Gray converted at least one. This was gleaned from the SIG forum hosted on the “Eve” network. The relevant posts would be ‘way, ‘way back in the archives, by now. If anything has changed, since then, I am not aware of it.

Keep in mind that DAK is not a simple DAO conversion. Frames made before a specific date are not convertible. There are simpler DAO SIGs, but I their trigger pulls are notably quite heavy.

http://sigforum.com/eve/forums

[TheNewbie]

I had the Wilson Combat spring that was, like, the poundage-equivalent of the D spring. Or maybe even less?

Didn't seem like an issue of pull weight, per se. It just felt like it hung up on something... then overtraveled the __ck out of all that energy. And I'd miss.

If that makes any sense...


It does.

I really want to try a 92 compact, hopefully that’s not a common issue.

[MattyD380]

It does.

I really want to try a 92 compact, hopefully that’s not a common issue.

I had one of the recent Italian-made, non-railed compacts (2015-2016-ish) with the more "crinkly" frame finish. So I don't know if the Tennessee/Maryland produced ones would be the same? Or Italian ones from other time periods...

Either way...

I think Ernest's improved trigger bar would fix the issue, 100%. I liked the compact, other than that. In SA, it was a pleasure to shoot and gave me tight little groups. 100% reliable.

[jd950]

It is possible to convert a stainless frame to DAK, but it takes some ‘smithing. Bruce Gray converted at least one. This was gleaned from the SIG forum hosted on the “Eve” network. The relevant posts would be ‘way, ‘way back in the archives, by now. If anything has changed, since then, I am not aware of it.

Keep in mind that DAK is not a simple DAO conversion. Frames made before a specific date are not convertible. There are simpler DAO SIGs, but I their trigger pulls are notably quite heavy.

http://sigforum.com/eve/forums

Right, I understand that only more recent frames will accept a DAK conversion and I am definitely not interested in the DAO. I thought from your post you had investigated the issue and learned that none of the stainless frames were convertible. I know that the non-convertible frames can be modified but frankly I would not do that. I might send it to Bruce Gray if he is still doing the modification, but wold likely leave the gun as it came rather than modify it. Simply swapping parts is different.

I will just check the frames and see if any are compatible. Alternatively, I believe I can call Sig and tell them a serial number and they will confirm if it can be converted, but I think it would be faster to just check it myself.

[JSGlock34]

So is the DA pull on a 92D different from the DA pull on a DA/SA 92? Or is it just me?

The 92D introduced the eponymous 'D' spring which lowered the DA pull weight. Today the 'D' spring is common across much of the Beretta lineup (92X, Brigadier Tactical, LTT Elite, M9A3, etc.), but when introduced the 92D definitely offered a better DA trigger.

I do think a tuned 92D has the potential to reliably use lighter hammer springs than the TDA 92s due to the one piece firing pin.

[Joe in PNG]

The 92D introduced the eponymous 'D' spring which lowered the DA pull weight. Today the 'D' spring is common across much of the Beretta lineup (92X, Brigadier Tactical, LTT Elite, M9A3, etc.), but when introduced the 92D definitely offered a better DA trigger.

I do think a tuned 92D has the potential to reliably use lighter hammer springs than the TDA 92s due to the one piece firing pin.

I put a Wilson trigger bar and their 12# spring in mine, and it still works. That 4# under the 16# factory D spring.

[Forte Smitten Wesson]

I bought a California Highway Patrol 4006TSW early last year for $399, it was in Very Good condition, but had been fitted with Hogue rubber grips as replacements for the presumably destroyed factory grips. Still, I'm thrilled to have it, because it was essentially my "Grail Gun" as they say, and shortly after I purchased mine the prices online shot up to $450.

It's a unique variant of the 4006TSW made specifically for the California Highway Patrol with an integral rail, bobbed hammer, and its own Serial Number range which supposedly goes from 1 to 10000.

[Bucky]

I have also heard that about the 5946, and I frankly wonder why. The 5946 is a lot heavier than the Glock 19, so I figured that incoming NYPD officers would opt for the lighter guns. Is the 5946 less expensive that the SIG option? I like the steel-framed 3rd Generation 9x19 guns, but I am strange that way. The first version of the DAO guns has a great trigger due to a unique frame and slide for the DAO models. Later S&W modified the design so that the DAO and TDA guns shared the same frames and slides. The bad side effect is less leverage for the trigger on the DAO hammer compared to the original models, making the trigger force to fire the gun higher.

Of course, being NYPD I assume they all have rather stout trigger pulls.

Having shot an NYPD G19, I’d probably opt for one of the other options. It should be noted that in factory configuration, I’d pick the G19 out of the 3 by a long shot. What they do to those triggers is an abomination, at least with the sample I tried.

[VT1032]

Could be wrong but I think the NYPD dropped them as an option for new officers a few years back. Now the choices are glock 17 gen 4 (with asinine 15 rnd mags because reasons), glock 19 or P226 DAO.

[HCM]

Could be wrong but I think the NYPD dropped them as an option for new officers a few years back. Now the choices are glock 17 gen 4 (with asinine 15 rnd mags because reasons), glock 19 or P226 DAO.

The 5946 was very popular with those transitioning from S&W revolvers. The Glocks subsequently gained ground with new hires. The heavier 5946 was also a bit easier to shoot with the 10-12lb trigger pulls mandated by NYPD.

NYPD dropped the 5946 for the G17 because S&W finally stopped making them. NYPD and RCMP were the last two significant users.

[Det1397]

In the last couple of weeks I came across an old school 469 and a couple of Third Gens for my collection. The 3904 is NOS, the 469 is “as new” and the CHP4006TSW is a trade-in. There’s quite an attraction for these, and other, steel S&W pistols, as can be attested by the availability, or lack there of, on the forums and auction sites.

[TDA]

I stopped frequenting Smith & Wesson Forum because posts like this were causing me to accumulate them at an alarming rate. 3904 is still on my list though, dammit. Nice finds.

[Jared]

In the last couple of weeks I came across an old school 469 and a couple of Third Gens for my collection. The 3904 is NOS, the 469 is “as new” and the CHP4006TSW is a trade-in. There’s quite an attraction for these, and other, steel S&W pistols, as can be attested by the availability, or lack there of, on the forums and auction sites.

That 3904 is sweet! Before I finally managed to swear off accumulating for the sake of accumulating, a 3906 was high on my want list.

[jh9]

That 3904 is sweet! Before I finally managed to swear off accumulating for the sake of accumulating, a 3906 was high on my want list.

Here's a 909 on gunbroker: https://www.gunbroker.com/item/896506977

Might scratch a similar itch to a 3906/3904.

[JAH 3rd]

I regret selling my 6906 I bought new. Don't remember what prompted me to get rid of it. I did buy a used 5906 a few years back. The DA/SA is smooth and reminds me of a K-frame S&W revolver. Somewhere around '76-'78 I did buy a new model 59, blue. I had to send it back to S&W due to a feeding issue. They fixed under warranty and it never missed a beat.