Apparently the Canadian military wants a new handgun

[TCinVA]

The requirements are apparently laid out in this document:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=102435.0;attach=37 457

Interesting features of the desired pistol:

- Consistent trigger pull. The document states DAO, but in the justification it lists consistent trigger for easier training, which must mean that they really don't care about a true DAO function and just want a consistent trigger.

- Must already be in service with NATO for at least 2 years. Rules out the P250 and similar guns...probably a good move by the Canucks.

- The grip size must be adjustable to permit the 5th percentile Canadian female to the 95th percentile Canadian male easily
perform all operations and easily hold and fire the GSP

- The weight of the trigger pull must be no greater than 8 pounds and no less than four pounds no matter the "state" of the weapon.

- Trigger travel can be no more than 30mm.

- Trigger pull to disassemble not allowed.

- Ambi mag release.

- No external safety.

Not too many pistols on the market that could meet all the requirements right now...I think the P30 could depending on exactly what they mean by the trigger pull being no more than 8 pounds in "any state"...and I'm not sure what the P30's trigger travel is since I don't speak metric.

[ToddG]

- Trigger pull to disassemble not allowed.

Dear Glock,

Told you so.

Love,
Todd

[fuse]

Wow, no external safety.

Good for them.

[orionz06]

- Trigger pull to disassemble not allowed.


How many M&P owners exercise this function?

[TCinVA]

Oh, forgot to mention one other important detail:

Apparently the Canadians are requiring that Colt Canada manufactures the weapon...the "winner" will have to deliver a TDP that Colt in Candada can use to manufacture the weapon. I know H&K has licensed weapons for manufacture in other countries before, but I'm not sure if they've ever done it with pistols or if they are keen to do it with a weapon like the P30. IIRC Walther has licensed a copy of their P99 to some lower-rent manufacturer and the Desert Eagle people are importing it. Walther has a long tradition of licensing manufacture so I'd imagine they wouldn't have much problem with it.


How many M&P owners exercise this function?

After I broke a striker trying to disassemble my first M&P I started using the little lever.

[ToddG]

Apparently the Canadians are requiring that Colt Canada manufactures the weapon...the "winner" will have to deliver a TDP that Colt in Candada can use to manufacture the weapon.

For 10,000 pistols? I'll be amazed if that doesn't get ripped out.

[orionz06]

After I broke a striker trying to disassemble my first M&P I started using the little lever.

Old striker or something I am missing with the design of the gun?

[jslaker]

I'm kind of curious what does qualify.

It almost read like a Glock feature list, until you get to the no trigger pull for disassembly requirement.

The weight requirement rules out them just moving from P225s to P226s.

The NATO use requirement would rule out something like the S&W M&P.

Germany issues the USP as the P8, but it doesn't meet the requirement of adjustable grip profiles (and I don't think the P30 has been officially fielded by any NATO militaries?)

What's that leave?

ETA:

Depending on how they define it, the ambidextrous magazine release requirement could rule quite a few designs out, as well.

[TCinVA]

Old striker or something I am missing with the design of the gun?

Old striker. I bought an M&P not too long after they came out and apparently I had one of the early models with a striker that was super-hard that didn't like dryfire.

[Tamara]

This reads like one of those "write the reqs to fit the gun we want" RFPs, but I'm scratcing my head as to which it could be...

Poland's a NATO country and has been fielding the P99 for more than two years.

[Kyle Reese]

I'm thinking P99 as well.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Does the P99 have a chrome bore and chamber?

[Tamara]

Does the P99 have a chrome bore and chamber?

It does not, but for such a small order (10,000 military service pistols) perhaps the barrel could be manufactured in Europe to these specifications by Walther GMBH or Radom? Who knows. :D
Good catch!

From what I can find nosing around the net, it looks like the Polish military Walther/Radom P99 Rad (In service wih a NATO country for more than two years!) may well have a chrome-lined bore.

It also appears that the pistol has been available commercially in Canuckistan.

[Kyle Reese]

Good catch!

From what I can find nosing around the net, it looks like the Polish military Walther/Radom P99 Rad (In service wih a NATO country for more than two years!) may well have a chrome-lined bore.

It also appears that the pistol has been available commercially in Canuckistan.

Sorry, that was my bad.

I meant to "reply with quote" on Misanthropist's post, instead I clicked "edit post". Sorry guys.

I actually wrote


It does not, but for such a small order (10,000 military service pistols) perhaps the barrel could be manufactured in Europe to these specifications by Walther GMBH or Radom? Who knows. :D

but I agree. :cool:

[jetfire]

Hilariously, the XD meets all those requirements. Croatia is a NATO country and the XD is their standard service sidearm. That being said, I would eat all of my hats if Canada picked the XD.

Although on the flip side, they bought Px4 Storms for their border patrol, so their is a national history of picking guns that no one else uses.

[orionz06]

Hilariously, the XD meets all those requirements. Croatia is a NATO country and the XD is their standard service sidearm. That being said, I would eat all of my hats if Canada picked the XD.


Mother of god. ^^^


They also want a mandatory less than 7.87" group at 50m, fired from a mechanical rest, 5.9" is desirable.

Also, NATO-STD 1913 rail... Kills Glock again.

[jslaker]

Hilariously, the XD meets all those requirements. Croatia is a NATO country and the XD is their standard service sidearm.

What about the 500 mean rounds between stoppages req? :cool:

In all seriousness, though, doesn't the XD require a trigger pull to field strip?

[jetfire]

You know, I don't know if the standard XD models need a trigger pull to field strip, I only have experience with the "M" models which do not.

[Tamara]

Hilariously, the XD meets all those requirements.
Chrome bore and chamber?

[jslaker]

You know, I don't know if the standard XD models need a trigger pull to field strip, I only have experience with the "M" models which do not.

The primary thing that's always made me think the standard XD does is because a friend of mine managed to put a .40 caliber hole in his kitchen tile by not chamber checking his XD prior to a field strip.

Then again, my buddy could just be dumb(er than expected). Wouldn't be the first time. :p

[P30shtr]

I'm kind of curious what does qualify.

It almost read like a Glock feature list, until you get to the no trigger pull for disassembly requirement.

The weight requirement rules out them just moving from P225s to P226s.

The NATO use requirement would rule out something like the S&W M&P.

Germany issues the USP as the P8, but it doesn't meet the requirement of adjustable grip profiles (and I don't think the P30 has been officially fielded by any NATO militaries?)

What's that leave?

ETA:

Depending on how they define it, the ambidextrous magazine release requirement could rule quite a few designs out, as well.

Would the P2000 count as it is issued to CBP (customs/border patrol) or does it have to be military issue i.e. Marines, Army, or other NATO countries equivalent?

[Tamara]

Would the P2000 count as it is issued to CBP (customs/border patrol) or does it have to be military issue i.e. Marines, Army, or other NATO countries equivalent?
One would assume they mean NATO military, and as far as I know, no NATO military issues any of the newer HKs on anything like a regular basis.

Plus, the chromed bore thing.

If I had to bet, I'd put $5 on somebody wanting the P99. Either they've got one and they they think it's just the berries, or their nephew's a Montreal cop and swears it's the greatest pistol ever, or their cousin's sister's brother-in-law is a sales rep for the Bumar Group, or something like that.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Sorry, that was my bad.

I meant to "reply with quote" on Misanthropist's post, instead I clicked "edit post". Sorry guys.

I actually wrote



but I agree. :cool:

Man, the fiscal crisis must be making the Germans nervous...instead of invading France or Poland, they're just invading my posts on Pistol-Forum. Economically that probably is a better option, I guess.

At least the P99 is a decent pistol, if that's what we go with.

But my guess is that this will just end up getting ignored by the majors and maybe they'll issue a new offer. I actually was wondering last night if this whole contract was designed not to get bids, so that somebody who's involved in the selection can say something along the lines of, "look, we tried...nobody bit. Let's just get off-the-shelf USPs."

[jetfire]

I missed the bit about the chrome bore and barrel, that really does make me think P99.

[ToddG]

There has been a certain contingent within the Canadian government that suffers from a major man-crush when it comes to the P99. I don't know enough about Canadian procurement laws & regs, but in the U.S. this would never make it to the formal RFP stage.

[Kyle Reese]

There has been a certain contingent within the Canadian government that suffers from a major man-crush when it comes to the P99. I don't know enough about Canadian procurement laws & regs, but in the U.S. this would never make it to the formal RFP stage.

To be fair, the 9mm P99 may well have been an improvement over selecting the Beretta PX4. :cool:

[ToddG]

I don't know... the Canadian mallet manufacturing industry really loves PX4s.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

You know what they say...when all you have is a mallet, everything looks like a PX4.

I didn't know that part of our government was known for its fascination with the P99. The only people I can think of seeing them on were the Montreal city police, I think, although that was a few years ago and I am not 100% on that.

But the country is definitely known for giving in to the whims of the french.

[ToddG]

I don't remember all the details, but when Montreal got the P99s I was at Beretta and it was a big deal because the whole procurement was basically forced through with no one else having a reasonable chance of winning. It was pretty blatant as I recall and our representative in Canada was up in arms about it.

I want to say part of the justification or influence came from someone at a national government level, but it was so long ago I couldn't say for sure because I don't recall the details. I may look to see if I still have any old files from back then.

[Tamara]

There has been a certain contingent within the Canadian government that suffers from a major man-crush when it comes to the P99. I don't know enough about Canadian procurement laws & regs, but in the U.S. this would never make it to the formal RFP stage.
I am not an insider. As a matter of fact, I am so far outside, I'm outside the herbaceous border; I can't even see the windows from here. But when I read a requirement like this, I'm reminded of the FBI's request for a SWAT pistol that didn't say "1911", but required an S&A magwell...

[ToddG]

USMC did that once on a (canceled) procurement... required that the guns be "compatible with Wilson Combat 8rd magazines" or something like that. :cool:

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I am not an insider. As a matter of fact, I am so far outside, I'm outside the herbaceous border; I can't even see the windows from here. But when I read a requirement like this, I'm reminded of the FBI's request for a SWAT pistol that didn't say "1911", but required an S&A magwell...

Perhaps coincidentally, a very large percentage of the country in question is north of the continental herbaceous border.

Or it may not be a coincidence at all

[Suvorov]

Just think what they could accomplish if instead of spending millions on a new pistol, they would invest half the money into comprehensive pistol training and developing real world relevant SOPs.

AFAIK - they completely transitioned from the HP to Sigs just a few years ago (or was it only JTF2)?

[Maple Syrup Actual]

The JTF2 use Sigs, and the MPs I believe use the 225.

The majority of pistols in inventory are still the BHPs.

But I agree with what you are saying, although I think replacing the BHP is worthwhile.

But 10,000 off-the-shelf guns, not built to spec by Colt Canada in a tiny, limited run like that, plus the money saved going in to training would be a WAY better use of the funds.

How strange that a military organization is not going to allocate funds in the most efficient manner.

[Kyle Reese]

The JTF2 use Sigs, and the MPs I believe use the 225.

The majority of pistols in inventory are still the BHPs.

Still using Inglis hi powers?

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk

[will_1400]

Sounds like a Beretta 90two D might fit the bill as well, assuming such a creature exists.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

To my knowledge, yes. I assume we have replaced some of the original magazines...but you know what they say about assumptions.

[Suvorov]

The JTF2 use Sigs, and the MPs I believe use the 225.

The majority of pistols in inventory are still the BHPs.

But I agree with what you are saying, although I think replacing the BHP is worthwhile.

But 10,000 off-the-shelf guns, not built to spec by Colt Canada in a tiny, limited run like that, plus the money saved going in to training would be a WAY better use of the funds.

How strange that a military organization is not going to allocate funds in the most efficient manner.

Yeah, I'd imagine those HPs are pretty old by now (but then again who knows how well used?). I had thought they had made the transition to SIG, but then again I might of confused it with Great Britain (but the last pic of Prince Harry showed him carrying a newer HP Mk II or III).

Maybe Colt Canada should try to resurrect the Colt 2000? :D

[Slavex]

XD has an external safety so its out.
I too am confused by the P99 thing. Only people using them are Montreal and I believe they're phasing them out for Glocks. No Fed level agency uses them and I can't think of anyone who cares for them.
This request is poorly thought out its embarrassing.

[fuse]

XD has an external safety so its out.
I too am confused by the P99 thing. Only people using them are Montreal and I believe they're phasing them out for Glocks. No Fed level agency uses them and I can't think of anyone who cares for them.
This request is poorly thought out its embarrassing.

Manual or external safety? The xd's grip safety is simply external.

[fuse]

XD has an external safety so its out.
I too am confused by the P99 thing. Only people using them are Montreal and I believe they're phasing them out for Glocks. No Fed level agency uses them and I can't think of anyone who cares for them.
This request is poorly thought out its embarrassing.

Manual or external safety? The xd's grip safety is simply external.

Edit: so it's external. Still I don't think grip safety counts as external, does it?

[Slavex]

Well I would hope they count it as external. I'd be even more embarrassed if they actually picked the XD

[Maple Syrup Actual]

If they do, I'm emigrating

[orionz06]

Imagine a red framed XD with a maple leaf engraved on the slide.

[TheNewbie]

Could it be a DAK Sig? Sig does have interchangeable grips to a degree. While it's not quite the same as an M&P or HK grip wise, the Sig can be changed.

Still, I think the M&P would be an amazing choice, but I think I could live with a P99.

[Wheeler]

Youguys are looking at this all wrong. That sounds like a revolver to me...:D
:p

[will_1400]

Youguys are looking at this all wrong. That sounds like a revolver to me...:D
:p

Since Colt Canada is supposed to produce the guns, does this mean we can get the Python back? :D:p

[JonInWA]

You'd better hope that you're not getting the New Service (can you say "boat anchor"), or the Trooper Mk III (can you say "fragile parts/timing") back...

Best, Jon

[jslaker]

Could it be a DAK Sig?

The 226 with magazine conveniently weighs about 15g more than the weight requirement. SIG could probably fight it, but that kind of makes it clear that it wasn't the intended result of this proposal.

[Wendell]

And the Grand Power K100 DAO?

<http://www.grandpower.eu/en/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_zbrane1.tpl&product_id=31&category_id=6&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=119>



Weapon specification


Calibre

9mm Luger



Trigger mechanism

DAO



Trigger resistance

34N



Magazine capacity

15 (16)



Magazine material

steel



Overall length

202,5mm



Height

133,5mm



Width

~40mm



Barrel length

108mm



Weight without magazine

740g



Weight with empty magazine

820g



Safety features

safety stop
lock slapper



Control

sided



Sights

metal side-adjustable rear sigt
plastic front sight



Supplied with

plastic case
two magazine
cleaning brush
inbus key




K100 DAO (double action only) is suitable for every day gun-toting for defensive purposes. Thanks to high trigger resonance with every shot it was possible to replace manual safety with blind pin. Absence of manual safety increases assurance of troublefree gun drawing in self-defensive situations. Sights consist of sideadjustable steel sights and plastic front sight. Pistol comes in any combination of all presented accessories excluding flat safety.

<http://www.grandpower.eu/en/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_zbrane1.tpl&product_id=31&category_id=6&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=119>

[smells like feet]

The last couple of times the Canadian govt went looking for pistols it bought PX4's for the Border guards, and HKp2000V5 for the prison guards and Park Rangers.

Only God knows what obscure pistol the Canadian Army will end up with.

[jetfire]

You'd better hope that you're not getting the New Service (can you say "boat anchor"), or the Trooper Mk III (can you say "fragile parts/timing") back...

Best, Jon

You're not kidding! First revo I ever broke was a Trooper. But that still doesn't mean I don't love them.

[wicked_police]

CBSA (customs) got the Px4, Corrections (jail guards) got the P2000. The rcmp has had the 5946 and 3953 for almost a decade (with Sig's just recently issued to ERT again).

I also wonder what will happen with this....

[digiadaamore]

The primary thing that's always made me think the standard XD does is because a friend of mine managed to put a .40 caliber hole in his kitchen tile by not chamber checking his XD prior to a field strip.

Then again, my buddy could just be dumb(er than expected). Wouldn't be the first time. :p

is your buddy named mark by chance? does he live in nc?

[Wheeler]

You're not kidding! First revo I ever broke was a Trooper. But that still doesn't mean I don't love them.

There's a reason that the serious revolver shooters pick S&W over Colts...

[zRxz]

Whatever we get, it will be heads and shoulders above what is currently being issued. The Inglis, with its stock sights, sucks. There's no eloquent way of saying that. Without ideal lighting conditions, a sight picture is a pipe dream. For goodness sakes, it has the same sights that were being used during World War 2! Knowing that, we should have milled off the stock irons en masse, dovetailed the front and rear sights, and had armourers install Trijicons. At least then we would have a sidearm that was marginally useful. But that would make entirely too much sense.

Why we insist on having a Canadian company provide our arms and equipment is beyond me. Yes, Diemaco cold hammer forged barrels are the heat, the C7 series rifles and the C8 carbines are sick, but our tac-vest is the bastard child from the Cold War that nobody wants. For crying out loud, it doesn't even carry the required number of magazines, forcing soldiers to pocket magazines to come up to patrol weight. To top it off, our standard issue optical sight is on its fourth generation of mounts (and may have finally solved the problems holding zero, windage, etc). Even then, it is impossible to properly mount back up iron sights (no free rail at the receiver), leaving the rifleman with iffy glass and no alternative. The Dueck Defense sights by Surefire seem to be a viable alternative, but at that point it would be the individual soldier purchasing his own kit.

I hope that our Conversative government with its majority rule can shake the cobwebs out of our military. We were and are currently deployed in Afghanistan, and did a hell of a job (in my twenty-two year old opinion) with what we were given, but it's high time that we stopped letting equipment issues get in the way of good soldiering.

[ToddG]

Apparently the Canadians are requiring that Colt Canada manufactures the weapon...the "winner" will have to deliver a TDP that Colt in Candada can use to manufacture the weapon.

For 10,000 pistols? I'll be amazed if that doesn't get ripped out.

Told you so. (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/10/21/canadian-military-force-to-cancel-planned-weapon-purchase/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheFirearmBlog+%28The+Firearm +Blog%29)

[TCinVA]

Can't say I'm shocked that nobody wanted to hand over their data package.

[JHC]

We were and are currently deployed in Afghanistan, and did a hell of a job (in my twenty-two year old opinion) with what we were given, but it's high time that we stopped letting equipment issues get in the way of good soldiering.

Your opinion is widely shared.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I would describe myself as approximately 0.4 - 0.7% surprised at the outcome. There was a very small part of me that thought this would last an entire year before being abandoned.

[Wendell]

A contract is expected to be awarded by September with initial deliveries beginning in the summer of 2022, Department of National Defence spokesperson Jessica Lamirande said. The firearms will be modular, meaning they can be reconfigured for various roles. Attachments such as improved targeting systems can also be installed on the guns. The pistol program is considered by the Canadian Army as a priority as the number of working Browning Hi-Power handguns has significantly dwindled because of a lack of spare parts. The project had been stalled for years after small arms firms rejected in 2011 the federal government requirement that the new guns be built at Colt Canada in Kitchener, ON. In addition, the companies balked at the stipulation they had to turn over their proprietary firearms information to Colt, a firm that some saw as a competitor. Industry sources say that because international small arms companies were reluctant to even bid on the Canadian pistol project, the federal government had no choice but to drop the requirement for the guns to be manufactured by Colt in Kitchener.
https://www.thetelegram.com/news/canada/canadian-military-to-receive-new-pistols-bids-to-be-requested-in-february-536545/

[RJ]

The article mentions a 2016 procurement cost of $50M for 20,000 pistols. I’m not real good at math but that’s a unit price of $2,500, each, right? Are they nuts?

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Holsters, spare mags, training materials, training for support staff, trips to nice places for high ranked officers

[RJ]

Yeah, I'm familiar with through life costs on .mil contracts.

Seems like the Canadian Taxpayer is getting hosed. Why not use the MHS design from Sig? There'd be a yuge savings on non-recurring costs/NDIs. It'd be virtually COTS.

For comparison, here's a report of a not dissimilar decision by the USAF last year (M9 replacement instead of Hi Powers) for a run of 125,000 M18s at $22.1M. Unit cost: $177.

https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/2020/06/22/Air-Force-rolling-out-new-Sig-Sauer-M18s-to-replace-M9-pistols/4411592840668/

[Archer1440]

Yeah, I'm familiar with through life costs on .mil contracts.

Seems like the Canadian Taxpayer is getting hosed, eh.

Fixed that for you. Obligatory Bob and Doug McKenzie edit, eh.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Yeah, I'm familiar with through life costs on .mil contracts.

Seems like the Canadian Taxpayer is getting hosed. Why not use the MHS design from Sig? There'd be a yuge savings on non-recurring costs/NDIs. It'd be virtually COTS.

For comparison, here's a report of a not dissimilar decision by the USAF last year (M9 replacement instead of Hi Powers) for a run of 125,000 M18s at $22.1M. Unit cost: $177.

https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/2020/06/22/Air-Force-rolling-out-new-Sig-Sauer-M18s-to-replace-M9-pistols/4411592840668/

But in that scenario, how do we ensure that millions of dollars are transferred from the west to Quebec?

That is the overarching goal of essentially every federal spending program. You go buying pistols off the shelf in a clean, easy transaction, there's no need for everything to be sent to Quebec, evaluated in Quebec, warehoused in Quebec so that Quebeckers can disassemble them before shipping them to the Quebec Maison d'Assembly...

[Archer1440]

But in that scenario, how do we ensure that millions of dollars are transferred from the west to Quebec?

That is the overarching goal of essentially every federal spending program. You go buying pistols off the shelf in a clean, easy transaction, there's no need for everything to be sent to Quebec, evaluated in Quebec, warehoused in Quebec so that Quebeckers can disassemble them before shipping them to the Quebec Maison d'Assembly...

Well, perhaps it makes up for the billions of dollars (trillions in today’s money) transferred to the west from Montreal when companies fled Q when René Lévesque was at the height of his Parti Québécois shenanigans, and their efforts to turn Quebec into its own little third world socialist country.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

If by "the West" you mean Toronto in that scenario, then maybe so...but most westerners don't really claim Toronto, it being not in the west, and a frequent beneficiary of the world's longest cow, as we say here...fed the resources of the west, milked in the east.

[MattyD380]

What about some kind of Beretta 92D? Not sure if that meets the exact length of pull requirements... but it's DAO. It's definitely under NATO use. And Beretta has successfully produced them in other places for decades. "Modular" is kind of subjective, I guess. But the 92 platform has lots of variations/accessories/options.

5946... 92D... I could see it.

[TheNewbie]

What about some kind of Beretta 92D? Not sure if that meets the exact length of pull requirements... but it's DAO. It's definitely under NATO use. And Beretta has successfully produced them in other places for decades. "Modular" is kind of subjective, I guess. But the 92 platform has lots of variations/accessories/options.

5946... 92D... I could see it.


I think a reliable good and consistent factory QC P250 would be a great general issue pistol. Both to police and military.


If an organization feels the absolute need for a manual safety, they could put a massive TS on it so that you couldn’t fail to take it off if you tried.

[Wendell]

What about some kind of Beretta 92D? Not sure if that meets the exact length of pull requirements...

All of the markings would have to be duplicated in both official languages, and in metric.

(We can't risk any accidents.)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV97fbpDPcA

[zaitcev]

Hilariously, the XD meets all those requirements.

I don't think so. XD does not have the trick link that depresses the
sear when the disassembly lever is turned, like the one at SIG P320.
One must pull the trigger to disassemble HS2000 or XD.
Here's a quote from the manual:

"6. *Pull the slide slightly to the rear to release the slide
stop lever. Then, firmly gripping the slide, allow the
slide to slowly move forward until the spring tension is
released. While holding the slide, pull and release the
trigger with the firearm pointed in a safe direction to
fully unlock the slide from the frame (See Figure 27-1.)"

[lee n. field]

I don't think so. XD does not have the trick link that depresses the
sear when the disassembly lever is turned, like the one at SIG P320.


The XDM does work this way, though. From that manual:


5 Rotate the disassembly lever clockwise (https://d7g7q7y3.stackpathcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/XD-M-Manual.pdf)to a vertical12 o’clock position (See Figure 24-2).
6. Firmly grip slide and pull to the rear to release the slide stop lever (See Figure 25-1). Maintain firm grip on slide and allow the slide to slowly move forward until the spring tension is released.
7. Move the complete slide assembly forward and off the frame (See Figure 25-2).

[HCM]

What about some kind of Beretta 92D? Not sure if that meets the exact length of pull requirements... but it's DAO. It's definitely under NATO use. And Beretta has successfully produced them in other places for decades. "Modular" is kind of subjective, I guess. But the 92 platform has lots of variations/accessories/options.

5946... 92D... I could see it.

5946 is out of production and the Beretta 92F and G models under Nato use but the D is not. Nor is either by any stretch of the imagination "modular." Regardless Metal frame pistols are no longer cost competitive.

2011 was a long time ago and I would not assume the requirements are the same as in 2011 when the OP was posted. The original requirements included modular grip sizing but not an actual modular pistol like the P250/P320/APX etc as mentioned in the current articles.

[HCM]

CBSA (customs) got the Px4, Corrections (jail guards) got the P2000. The rcmp has had the 5946 and 3953 for almost a decade (with Sig's just recently issued to ERT again).

I also wonder what will happen with this....

RCMP has been using the 5946 and 3953 since 1992 (28 years) so nearly 3 decades....

S&W ceased even the LE agency only production of the 5946 2 or 3 years ago as the RCMP and NYPD were the only remaining users.

The P226's in use by ERT are folded slide models and like everyone else with the older SIGs they can no longer get parts for them..

[wicked_police]

‘94 is when SARP was rolled out. ERT and PDS were the guys that did the conversion training for the regular members, since they were the first ones to get the new guns.



RCMP has been using the 5946 and 3953 since 1992 (28 years) so nearly 3 decades....

S&W ceased even the LE agency only production of the 5946 2 or 3 years ago as the RCMP and NYPD were the only remaining users.

The P226's in use by ERT are folded slide models and like everyone else with the older SIGs they can no longer get parts for them..

[homeyclaus]

Still using Inglis hi powers?

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk

Yes - you have pictures of Sartechs in Haiti carrying those things.

Great gun, but some of the storage SOPs and maintenance failures are the stuff of nightmares from my time in.

ETA: Barrels for nearly any pistol can be made with a chrome-lined bore and chamber. Most of the pistols currently in service miss on one of the other criteria, although the easiest to fix is probably the ambi mag release on some of the designs. I am thinking APX (in service with Italy for some time), or VP9. But TDP for 10,000 pistols... maybe Canik from Turkey would enter their Walther P99 derivative.

[HCM]

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/military-plan-to-replace-second-world-war-era-pistols-is-on-hold-because-of-complaint


Military plan to replace Second World War-era pistols is on hold because of complaint

Ottawa Citizen
Publishing date:Jul 19, 2021

The plan to replace the Canadian military’s Second World War-era pistols is on hold for now after a firm representing one of the gun manufacturers complained the competition was designed to favour its competitors.

Federal government officials were to receive bids on Aug. 3 for new pistols to replace the army’s Browning Hi-Power handguns. The plan was to award a contract for a new gun by December and start delivering the first weapons to troops in the summer of 2022.

But that process has come to a halt after Rampart International of Ottawa, the firm that represents handgun manufacturer Glock in the Canadian market, filed a complaint with the Canadian International Trade Tribunal. Rampart alleges the government-run competition favours Glock’s rivals, Beretta and Sig Sauer.

As a result, the CITT has requested the federal government put any contract award on hold.

Public Services and Procurement Canada spokesman Jeremy Link said the department “has full confidence in the rigour, fairness and outcomes of its competitive procurement processes.”

[Totem Polar]

Inside baseball says that Glock is at a disadvantage, because the Canadian nation’s standard hookers n blow quotient is already waaaaay beyond what Glock can muster to influence contracting.

I mean, have any of you ever been to Vancouver?

https://i.gifer.com/1ObQ.gif

[Maple Syrup Actual]

This is true. I wouldn't get out of bed for less than two hookers and an eight ball. I've been to Glock's parties. They're decent.

And I'm not looking for decent.

[Trooper224]

Inside baseball says that Glock is at a disadvantage, because the Canadian nation’s standard hookers n blow quotient is already waaaaay beyond what Glock can muster to influence contracting.

I mean, have any of you ever been to Vancouver?

https://i.gifer.com/1ObQ.gif

Oh yes.

[RevolverRob]

Great news for CZ. If they can basically get the expansion of the proposal to include a P10-like handgun, they'll be in like Flynn.

[Stephanie B]

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/military-plan-to-replace-second-world-war-era-pistols-is-on-hold-because-of-complaint

They could get a couple hundred per gun if they sold those BHPs to an American importer, such as AIM Surplus. If they can then piggynack on the M17 contract for $177/per, that's a bit of a profit for Her Majesty's Loyal Subjects.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I read that the Canadians were in some pretty fierce fighting in Afghanistan. I wonder if there is any history of the guns being used there.

[MattyD380]

They could get a couple hundred per gun if they sold those BHPs to an American importer, such as AIM Surplus. If they can then piggynack on the M17 contract for $177/per, that's a bit of a profit for Her Majesty's Loyal Subjects.

I think it’d be cool to have an Inglis Hi Power. Those integral rear sights are neat.

You know, just in case this groundbreaking opinion changes the Canadian government’s decision to sell off the pistols.