2016 is coming

[LittleLebowski]

If you're like me and have no faith in the Republican party winning, I strongly suggest stocking up on the below now. We are living in the AR salad days and you'd be silly not to have a $50 (or less!) stripped lower or five in the safe.

Stripped AR lowers (http://quanticotactical.com/asp/itemDetail.asp?dispItemNum=2997&type=M&CMN=Anderson%20Manufacturing&CMNum=175&CMSNum=703&CMSN=Stripped%20Lowers)

Ammo (.22 LR can be found online and everything else is in stock online and locally)

Reloading supplies if you reload (I know this stuff is still in short supply)

Mags. Mags. Mags for everything. Mags.

[Kyle Reese]

If you're like me and have no faith in the Republican party winning, I strongly suggest stocking up on the below now. We are living in the AR salad days and you'd be silly not to have a $50 (or less!) stripped lower or five in the safe.

Stripped AR lowers (http://quanticotactical.com/asp/itemDetail.asp?dispItemNum=2997&type=M&CMN=Anderson%20Manufacturing&CMNum=175&CMSNum=703&CMSN=Stripped%20Lowers)

Ammo (.22 LR can be found online and everything else is in stock online and locally)

Reloading supplies if you reload (I know this stuff is still in short supply)

Mags. Mags. Mags for everything. Mags.

Yup. Just like the summer of 2012, before Sandy Hook. Buy what you can afford now.

[Hambo]

Congrats, this is the first pre-election time to panic buy thread I've seen.

[LittleLebowski]

Congrats, this is the first pre-election time to panic buy thread I've seen.

Right now, you can get five stripped lowers for $200. Think about that.

[breakingtime91]

Right now, you can get five stripped lowers for $200. Think about that.

I am actually saving up to invest in some stuff, not a bad idea in my opinion.

[WDW]

I bought 40 PMags a few weeks ago...should be good for a bit...

[RJ]

Yep. :(

3739

[JodyH]

What makes you think the next ban will have a Grandfather clause?

[HCM]

What makes you think the next ban will have a Grandfather clause?

Possession is 9/10 of the law .....

[LSP972]

What makes you think the next ban will have a Grandfather clause?

I don't. Which is why I've hung on to all my revolvers and lo-cap bottom feeders. One more thing to get… a bolt action .223, and maybe another 870. Still buying ammo & loading components too.

LL is right, but I fear Jody is as well. I've got plenty of tactical-schmactical stuff. But if all of that suddenly becomes illegal overnight, I won't be defenseless, or an outlaw…;)

.

[Edwin]

I'm still waiting for the black helicopters to come confiscate all my stuff and send me to FEMA re-education camps since 2008 and all I got was this t-shirt.

[TGS]

I'm still waiting for the black helicopters to come confiscate all my stuff and send me to FEMA re-education camps since 2008 and all I got was this t-shirt.

Honestly, I think this sort of rhetoric is counter-productive.

Referring to LL's viewpoint as such is misrepresentative and disingenious.

There is, however, a very real and very quantifiable advantage to buying products when they're cheap instead of when they're hard to find and expensive.

Personally, I was happy that I had a stockpile of ammunition prior to Sandy Hook. I was able to continue training throughout the "drought," even with a salary cut.

[45dotACP]

If I could find any powder, i'd stock up...Unfortunately we're likely going to be headed into another full blown ammo drought and I don't look forward to it. If freaking Alliant (or anybody) would expand their facilities enough to catch up with demand, the supply wouldn't be so short, especially since it's been pretty much gone since 2008...

I don't see that changing even a little. Then again, I don't see Hilary as coming out on top here. I think Sanders might edge her out. That would make me laugh, but I doubt the effect will be any different at all.

Screw it, I have about 16 or so pounds of powder, so I should be able to handload ammo once I run out of factory options. I'll be needing a SIRT pretty soon, and probably doubling my contributions to the NRA.

Then again, 2016 may be the year to work on archery...or swordsmanship :mad:

[CCT125US]

What makes you think the next ban will have a Grandfather clause?

I am sure the compliance rate would be astounding.

[HCM]

I am sure the compliance rate would be astounding.

We need the purple for sarcasm. However, you're correct. The compliance rate with the New York SAFE act for example is ridiculously low.

The idea that squads of black clad ninjas will be going door-to-door to seize our guns is pretty unrealistic. A ban with no grandfather clause would likely be enforced by a "wither on the vine" strategy.

[TGS]

We need the purple for sarcasm. However, you're correct. The compliance rate with the New York SAFE act for example is ridiculously low.

The idea that squads of black clad ninjas will be going door-to-door to seize our guns is pretty unrealistic. A ban with no grandfather clause would likely be enforced by a "wither on the vine" strategy.

I think a good example would be Colorado's sheriff's who have openly stated they won't enforce any of the recent legislation.

Or the number of sheriff's who've signed letters stating they would arrest any federal agent enforcing what they defined as unconstitutional gun control, and use lethal force against the same agents if they resist arrest.

When that letter went to Obama, I thought it was a "oh shit, take notice" moment for many.

[LSP552]

I don't. Which is why I've hung on to all my revolvers and lo-cap bottom feeders. One more thing to get… a bolt action .223, and maybe another 870. Still buying ammo & loading components too.

LL is right, but I fear Jody is as well. I've got plenty of tactical-schmactical stuff. But if all of that suddenly becomes illegal overnight, I won't be defenseless, or an outlaw…;)

.

Hey Steve, did I tell you that I accidentally dropped my gun safe overboard while fishing last week? Lost everything except a my little G42....

[Malamute]

Even if self loaders were suddenly evil(er), the development of more variations on manually operated uppers would probably spring up overnight. Having lowers in unusual model names besides "AR-15" may be something to consider.

Having plenty of reloading supplies is always good. I recall The great Primer Famine way back when. I think the first time I actually ran out of powder or primers when first reloading I started buying enough ahead to not run out for some time. The Primer Famine was inconvenient, but didnt keep me from shooting.

^^ Sad about losing your gun safe.

[Willard]

I don't. Which is why I've hung on to all my revolvers and lo-cap bottom feeders. One more thing to get… a bolt action .223, and maybe another 870. Still buying ammo & loading components too.

LL is right, but I fear Jody is as well. I've got plenty of tactical-schmactical stuff. But if all of that suddenly becomes illegal overnight, I won't be defenseless, or an outlaw…;)

.

While I hope folks hang on to those guns that might be visible without causing trouble, if the law changes for the worse, the thought that everyone would turn them in if it suddenly became inconvenient to have 2A rights disturbs me. Hope the sentiment is not widespread.

[GardoneVT]

We need the purple for sarcasm. However, you're correct. The compliance rate with the New York SAFE act for example is ridiculously low.

The idea that squads of black clad ninjas will be going door-to-door to seize our guns is pretty unrealistic. A ban with no grandfather clause would likely be enforced by a "wither on the vine" strategy.

Who needs door to door searches?

Can't take the illegal gun to the practice range. Forget about classes either, so you own a paperweight you won't even be skilled enough to use well.

It gets worse. Say you do the local criminal justice system a favor by wasting a bad dude that broke into your kitchen. Nice work!
Too bad you're going to jail anyways, because the local LEOs found a Hillary Sadface Gun in your attic after your home became a crime scene.

Best case the local , small town PD confiscates your expensive and legally irreplaceable Hillary Sadface Gun and skips the part where you get to spend the night in their jail. If you have the misfortune of being caught in a Blue State ,you'll be Public Enemy#1 on the 6 o'clock news.

Best part is , piss off the Better Half and she won't need a divorce lawyer to have you tossed in front of a judge.......

[LSP972]

I'm still waiting for the black helicopters to come confiscate all my stuff and send me to FEMA re-education camps since 2008 and all I got was this t-shirt.

So you think it won't happen, eh? Tell that to the guys who promulgated this… and check the date.

http://www.glockforum.com/Glock-owner-in-Los-Angeles-Good-luck-with-those-mags-Glock-Forum.html

.

[LSP972]

... the thought that everyone would turn them in if it suddenly became inconvenient to have 2A rights disturbs me.

The thought of becoming a resident at the Graybar Hotel disturbs me more. And if you think that most cops will look the other way, guess again. Katrina showed us otherwise; that was a real eye-opener for some of us.

GardoneVT makes a couple of very good points, too.

Still, I get where you're coming from. I don't intend to turn anything in; but I'm not going to bury the stuff in my back yard or hide it in the attic, either. I'm just going to comply with the law; as in, not have any banned items in my possession.

.

[Hambo]

Right now, you can get five stripped lowers for $200. Think about that.

I have, but I don't like the feeling of being manipulated to buy a ton of stuff I don't really need.

It's my belief that rather than join the stampeding herd while worrying about what they have, gun owners should spend some of that cash on politics, especially at the local and state level.

BUY POLITICIANS, NOT AMMO!

[Mike C]

I have, but I don't like the feeling of being manipulated to buy a ton of stuff I don't really need.

It's my belief that rather than join the stampeding herd while worrying about what they have, gun owners should spend some of that cash on politics, especially at the local and state level.

BUY POLITICIANS, NOT AMMO!

I completely hear you one this one. The panic buying sucks. Everything from pricing for factory ammo to my reloading supplies goes through the roof, and while I really don't want to participate in it and make things worse. It does become hard not to want to hoard loading supplies and a few mags. The market still hasn't seemed to be able to recover and on a regular basis I am still unable find my favorite powders.

[LittleLebowski]

I have, but I don't like the feeling of being manipulated to buy a ton of stuff I don't really need.

It's my belief that rather than join the stampeding herd while worrying about what they have, gun owners should spend some of that cash on politics, especially at the local and state level.

BUY POLITICIANS, NOT AMMO!

Wait, you're accusing me of manipulation? I'll stop right away if you simply buy me two lowers for the LOW LOW PRICE of $99! Anyway, take the advice or don't or just complain about it :D

Anyway, with regards to the political thing, I've been working on my father in law's campaign a bit. He's a Hispanic, retired Marine Colonel, pro gun, Republican who is running for Barbara Boxer's old seat in California. What political races have you been working on? If you haven't, his is a good cause: http://www.rockychavezforsenate.com/#!meet-rocky/cjg9

[LittleLebowski]

Honestly, I think this sort of rhetoric is counter-productive.

Referring to LL's viewpoint as such is misrepresentative and disingenious.

There is, however, a very real and very quantifiable advantage to buying products when they're cheap instead of when they're hard to find and expensive.

Personally, I was happy that I had a stockpile of ammunition prior to Sandy Hook. I was able to continue training throughout the "drought," even with a salary cut.

Thank you. I'm more than a little surprised at some of the reactions here. Five good, stripped lowers for $200 is amazing. Mags are cheap right now.

[HCM]

Who needs door to door searches?

Can't take the illegal gun to the practice range. Forget about classes either, so you own a paperweight you won't even be skilled enough to use well.

It gets worse. Say you do the local criminal justice system a favor by wasting a bad dude that broke into your kitchen. Nice work!
Too bad you're going to jail anyways, because the local LEOs found a Hillary Sadface Gun in your attic after your home became a crime scene.

Best case the local , small town PD confiscates your expensive and legally irreplaceable Hillary Sadface Gun and skips the part where you get to spend the night in their jail. If you have the misfortune of being caught in a Blue State ,you'll be Public Enemy#1 on the 6 o'clock news.

Best part is , piss off the Better Half and she won't need a divorce lawyer to have you tossed in front of a judge.......

Thanks, ths is exactly what I was referring to re: die on the vine / attrition enforcement.

[HCM]

The thought of becoming a resident at the Graybar Hotel disturbs me more. And if you think that most cops will look the other way, guess again. Katrina showed us otherwise; that was a real eye-opener for some of us.

GardoneVT makes a couple of very good points, too.

Still, I get where you're coming from. I don't intend to turn anything in; but I'm not going to bury the stuff in my back yard or hide it in the attic, either. I'm just going to comply with the law; as in, not have any banned items in my possession.

.

You cant fight back with tools you dont have. Many Europeans learned that lesson the hard way in WWII. The large numbers of small arms in attics, wine cellars and back yards are why several European countries prohibited civilian possession of military caliber firearms and ammunition.

[CCT125US]

It would certainly be an interesting landscape for sure. Keep in mind once its is online, it exists forever. All the pics, posts and emails don't go away.

[HCM]

It would certainly be an interesting landscape for sure. Keep in mind once its is online, it exists forever. All the pics, posts and emails don't go away.

100% correct but I would rather live my life and die well if it came to that point than live in fear.

[GardoneVT]

100% correct but I would rather live my life and die well if it came to that point than live in fear.

Pssst- gun shops are electronic merchants too. Who needs the ATF when the Fed can subpoena credit card records of transactions at major firearm and accessory firms ?

Lots of ways to skin the totalitarian cat if it comes to that. It's easier to hide a gun then it is to hide the statement history on your Cabela's Visa Card.

[Hambo]

Wait, you're accusing me of manipulation? I'll stop right away if you simply buy me two lowers for the LOW LOW PRICE of $99! Anyway, take the advice or don't or just complain about it :D

Anyway, with regards to the political thing, I've been working on my father in law's campaign a bit. He's a Hispanic, retired Marine Colonel, pro gun, Republican who is running for Barbara Boxer's old seat in California. What political races have you been working on? If you haven't, his is a good cause: http://www.rockychavezforsenate.com/#!meet-rocky/cjg9

Wait, you...manipulating me? I don't think so. ;) I will consider your offer, but there's no way I'm buying you expensive $50 lowers when I can buy five for $200 and cut the cost to $40 each.

Somebody is advertising to us all the time, including firearms related companies. I saw a Dodge commercial that is a not too subtle homage to Miami Vice. Then I started thinking about all the research and work that went into the theme to get middle aged dudes to want a Challenger. I don't believe the shooting biz is any less likely to try to manipulate buyers than Dodge.

[LittleLebowski]

Wait, you...manipulating me? I don't think so. ;) I will consider your offer, but there's no way I'm buying you expensive $50 lowers when I can buy five for $200 and cut the cost to $40 each.


ACCEPTED

[ssb]

I don't know about new laws being imminent. I honestly think we're at a bit of an impasse at the Federal level specific to legislative horseplay, and I don't see that changing in the relatively near future. Like it or not, because of the way the recent Congresses have conducted themselves, there isn't much that can get through without actual agreement between the two parties or a supermajority. I don't think a serious gun control package has a prayer in the world in the current Federal climate. Some lunatic shot 26 children two and a half years ago and spurred the biggest push for gun control we've seen since the 1990s. Not a thing got done.

Same thing for the states, or at least those I care to live in. Frankly, neither my current state nor any that I may end up moving to in the next couple of years shows any sign of changing the current status quo.

The handful of potential Supreme Court retirements coming soon are the only thing that really concerns me, gun-wise. As a matter of fact, that's probably the only thing that could motivate me to actually vote Republican this time around.

The impending panic buying does worry me, however. Thus, the plan is to have enough FMJ socked away to last me for a year of shooting 100rds/wk (or more if I stretch). If needed, I'll shoot until I can't find ammo at Wal Mart/LGSs and then start dipping into that stash. I'm in the process of getting a solid stash of good JHPs as well, because damn if the good stuff hasn't been unobtanium over the past two years. Mags as well, just for the cost factor. Am I going to go out and buy a couple of money pit rifles? Probably not. I don't have much practical use for the things, and I get much more enjoyment out of my pistols anyway.

[LittleLebowski]

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p199/grn06rubi/found-roll-pin-time-to-build-ar_zpsoa6inc4k.jpg

[Hambo]

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p199/grn06rubi/found-roll-pin-time-to-build-ar_zpsoa6inc4k.jpg

Time for somebody to stop the triple shots of espresso. :D

[CCT125US]

Pssst- gun shops are electronic merchants too. Who needs the ATF when the Fed can subpoena credit card records of transactions at major firearm and accessory firms ?

Lots of ways to skin the totalitarian cat if it comes to that. It's easier to hide a gun then it is to hide the statement history on your Cabela's Visa Card.

While I agree this is in theory possible.... I don't believe it would go very far. Not sure of your location, but in Ohio, we do not have to do a bill of sale in order to trade, gift, or buy a gun from an individual. The paper trail would quickly end in that scenario.
What then?

[CCT125US]

double post

[David S.]

Congrats, this is the first pre-election time to panic buy thread I've seen.

15 month lead time = PANIC!!. :confused:

[LSP972]

You cant fight back with tools you dont have.

I understand that... probably better than you.

Read my thoughts/post again; I am NOT advocating rolling over and pissing on my belly.

.

[Paul]

Just a friendly reminder. Shotguns are bad. Shotguns cannot do anything well. Do not buy a shotgun. Panic buy all the .223/5.56/7.26/.308/9mm/etc that you can, leave that worthless birdshot, buckshot and slugs on the shelves.

[45dotACP]

Oh Christ, we are seriously having discussions of totalitarian dictatorships if another democrat gets elected....

Truthfully Obama would have signed any assault weapons ban if it came across his desk...know why it never did?


congress!

I am every bit as concerned for the 2a as the next man, but if we keep control of congress (or even a favorable number to stymie a majority) then we prevent stupid laws from being put into effect...at least on a national level. That's why it's nice to keep up with the NRA ratings and know your senators, their voting records etc, because the presidency is only the last step in the process as far as a national gun ban is concerned.

And I so very seriously doubt that anything even resembling some sort of totalitarian regime will come to pass on account of Hilary Clinton or Grandpa Bernie Sanders...

[LittleLebowski]

Oh Christ, we are seriously having discussions of totalitarian dictatorships if another democrat gets elected....


Quote the post(s) in this very thread that states that. Please.

[LittleLebowski]

15 month lead time = PANIC!!. :confused:

Let's try this again: Lots of shit available now for very good prices. Uncertainty ahead, probably panics. Good time to buy shit.

[HCM]

I understand that... probably better than you.

Read my thoughts/post again; I am NOT advocating rolling over and pissing on my belly.

.

George Orwell spent 5 years as a British colonial policeman. I know exactly what you're saying - I was just not intending to spell it out.

[HCM]

Let's try this again: Lots of shit available now for very good prices. Uncertainty ahead, probably panics. Good time to buy shit.

I'm not buying anything I wouldn't buy anyway. I'm just adjusting my purchase schedule to avoid paying higher prices.

[David S.]

Let's try this again: Lots of shit available now for very good prices. Uncertainty ahead, probably panics. Good time to buy shit.

Dude, I agree with you. Early next year, after I get my finances figured out, I'll be doing exactly that....well in advance of the election.

The person I quoted seemed to be calling you out for starting a panic buy. (I didn't note sarcasm, but I could be wrong). Given that there is 15 months left before the election, I hardly see that as such. The industry currently has more than enough capacity to absorb whatever comes from your humble suggestion. ;)

Cheers,
David

[Nephrology]

I placed a big order for 9mm and .38 recently, just supplemented with a few boxes of RA9T and some .22LR. I'll be screwed no matter what.

[RevolverRob]

I must admit - 5 stripped lowers at $200 is a pretty good deal.

Trouble is - 5 stripped lowers, means I need five LPKs, five uppers, and five BCGs and that's just to get started (because seriously, if you have five stripped lowers, you're gonna wanna build 5 AR15s...). Which admittedly all of this isn't the end of the world. I was trying to decide what to get myself for my birthday this year - Maybe five stripped lowers, some parts kits, some PMAGs, and ammo it should be....

ETA: Congress ain't nothing to worry about. Y'all need to be thinking about this - We have FIVE sitting SCOTUS justices who were born before 1940 and are approaching or already over 80 years old. Including two of the five from the majority in Heller v. DC. And Clarence Thomas was born in 1948 - which means we have to think about the next 4-8 years carefully. Now - I'm not suggesting that I think a shift in the balance of the court will result in the immediate overturning of the Heller ruling. I think that would be a mistake to think - because it has been 42 years since Roe v. Wade - and we haven't come close to overturning that decision - despite a court makeup that could make it feasibly possible. BUT - I also don't want to think about Hilary Clinton having the opportunity to appoint five SCOTUS justices, either.

-Rob

[TGS]

I must admit - 5 stripped lowers at $200 is a pretty good deal.

Trouble is - 5 stripped lowers, means I need five LPKs, five uppers, and five BCGs and that's just to get started (because seriously, if you have five stripped lowers, you're gonna wanna build 5 AR15s...). Which admittedly all of this isn't the end of the world. I was trying to decide what to get myself for my birthday this year - Maybe five stripped lowers, some parts kits, some PMAGs, and ammo it should be....

-Rob

PSA has wicked deals every now and then. Keep an eye out and you can pick up parts here and there along the way.

Their MPI/HPT marked BCGs have been going for $80 recently.

[SeriousStudent]

I have been doing this for a year now. I picked up two pounds of Unique and two pounds of CFE223 last week. On sale. (Psst, Wayne - I have your powder...)

Today at Cabela's I got two pounds of CFE223, two pounds of CFE Pistol, and 4000 CCI small pistol primers. With a coupon and a spare $25 gift card, it was just under $200 out the door.

It ain't hard to build up a couple of dozen pounds of powder and 20-30 thousand primers in a year, if you shop twice a month.

And yeah, I already have the parts for a half-dozen AR builds stashed. Just check Aero Precision, Brownell's, Sionics and BCM when they have sales. I'm putting away stuff for the grandkids now. My son and daughter were already taken care of five years ago. The magazine situation was taken care of eight years ago.

[SeriousStudent]

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p199/grn06rubi/found-roll-pin-time-to-build-ar_zpsoa6inc4k.jpg

Guilty.

"Hmmmm... spare H buffer found in the garage..... better start an order."

[Gray222]

soooo...


anyone know a company that wants to do a group buy of cheapy lowers?

I'd throw $200 towards a few lowers if they are cheap enough ;)

[LittleLebowski]

soooo...


anyone know a company that wants to do a group buy of cheapy lowers?

I'd throw $200 towards a few lowers if they are cheap enough ;)

Anderson or Aero might. Gather data, report back.

[WobblyPossum]

I'd be in for a few $50 Aero Precision lowers.

[SeriousStudent]

I would definitely lean towards Aero, based on their quality and customer service interactions. I have bought four blem lowers and six regular lowers, and all have worked well.

Just curious, how would a group buy on something that requires an FFL transfer work? I'm not going wee-wee in anyone's breakfast cereal, just asking a question that makes me wonder.

[YVK]

I read the title of this thread and told myself that I probably should be worried. I checked my pulse and it wasn't racing. BP was 110/70 and respiration was 11. Pupils seemed normal. There was no sweating or piloerection (nice word, ain't it). I wasn't panicking.
I then went and ordered 4,000 rounds of 9 mm ammo. Nothing changed in my vital signs after. What a paradoxical reaction to a totally non-stressful situation.

[5pins]

The next president will change the face of Supreme Court for the next few decades.
I have two Anderson lowers coming in tomorrow from Wideners. They are currently $37 each.

[Sasage]

https://odfirearms.com/product/aero-precision-ar-15-stripped-lower-3-pack/

3 For $160

[Lost River]

Let's try this again: Lots of shit available now for very good prices. Uncertainty ahead, probably panics. Good time to buy shit.

Works for me.

Stocking up on items when they are at their lowest prices in years makes sense to me. As does stocking up on components that may likely become hard to find in the near future.

[Jeep]

Let's try this again: Lots of shit available now for very good prices. Uncertainty ahead, probably panics. Good time to buy shit.

Frankly, its hard for me to understand how buying low can be a bad idea regardless of whatever happens with black helicopters or Hillary*. And stripped receiver prices are very low right now.

I also note that the price of 9mm ammo at SG ammo is now hovering a bit above $200 per thousand. I think it will go lower because metal prices and foreign currencies are down, but this might not be a bad time to start buying. There will be another panic sometime, and in addition metal prices and the price of the Euro aren't going to stay low forever.

*Personally I'm hoping that Hillary gets called to account for what is increasingly looking like a massive refusal to follow federal law on the handling of classified documents--Joe Snuffy would be called to account and so should she. But buying low makes sense even in the unlikely event that Hillary gets shipped off to Club Fed.

[LSP972]

Frankly, its hard for me to understand how buying low can be a bad idea regardless of whatever happens with black helicopters or Hillary*.

Because it has become fashionable among... shall we say, the hipsters among us... to roll one's eyes and poke fun at preppers, hoarders, or any form of belief in conspiracy theories, etc., etc.

I expect that sort of thing from yuppies; especially those with no "life experience" other than YouTube, Starbucks, and the mall. It is a bit more difficult to grasp when I see it displayed by folks who should know better, but, hey... whatever floats their boat.

.

[HCM]

Frankly, its hard for me to understand how buying low can be a bad idea regardless of whatever happens with black helicopters or Hillary*.


Because it has become fashionable among... shall we say, the hipsters among us... to roll one's eyes and poke fun at preppers, hoarders, or any form of belief in conspiracy theories, etc., etc.

I expect that sort of thing from yuppies; especially those with no "life experience" other than YouTube, Starbucks, and the mall. It is a bit more difficult to grasp when I see it displayed by folks who should know better, but, hey... whatever floats their boat.

.

A big part of this is simply figuring out what makes the most sense to buy. For my self, I would rather put $200 into a case of 9mm ammo I'll use eventually regardless, or a spare bolt carrier group to keep my existing AR's running than 5 AR lowers, each of which will become little money pits. Of course if I didnt have a safe full of AR's prior to my "boating accident" I might look at thinks differently.

[Kyle Reese]

Frankly, its hard for me to understand how buying low can be a bad idea regardless of whatever happens with black helicopters or Hillary*.

Because it has become fashionable among... shall we say, the hipsters among us... to roll one's eyes and poke fun at preppers, hoarders, or any form of belief in conspiracy theories, etc., etc.

I expect that sort of thing from yuppies; especially those with no "life experience" other than YouTube, Starbucks, and the mall. It is a bit more difficult to grasp when I see it displayed by folks who should know better, but, hey... whatever floats their boat.

.

These were the same people paying $3500 for used AR's in the immediate aftermath of Sandy Hook.

[Jeep]

Because it has become fashionable among... shall we say, the hipsters among us... to roll one's eyes and poke fun at preppers, hoarders, or any form of belief in conspiracy theories, etc., etc.

I expect that sort of thing from yuppies; especially those with no "life experience" other than YouTube, Starbucks, and the mall. It is a bit more difficult to grasp when I see it displayed by folks who should know better, but, hey... whatever floats their boat.

.

I've made more than my share of mistakes in life, but thankfully I missed the hipster stage and now I'm far too old to be one. However, I'd think that even the hippest and most ironic hipster would understand the truth about two phrases: "Be prepared" and "buy low, sell high."

[Jeep]

A big part of this is simply figuring out what makes the most sense to buy. For my self, I would rather put $200 into a case of 9mm ammo I'll use eventually regardless, or a spare bolt carrier group to keep my existing AR's running than 5 AR lowers, each of which will become little money pits. Of course if I didnt have a safe full of AR's prior to my "boating accident" I might look at thinks differently.

Now that makes sense to me. Unless you have unlimited funds, you have to choose which purchases make sense. Right now, I'd personally rather have the ammo (and I keep buying magazines) but I have little doubt that we will see higher prices for everything gun related (and maybe everything period) in the foreseeable future.

[Mr_White]

I'd think that even the hippest and most ironic hipster would understand the truth about two phrases: "Be prepared" and "buy low, sell high."

As a resident of Portland, I am sorry to tell you that you are wrong. They don't necessarily understand that. Those are very non-egalitarian statements. If they considered them long enough, I bet they would war against the social injustice contained in them.

[1slow]

Is hipster a subset of libtard ?

[RMJack]

As a resident of Portland, I am sorry to tell you that you are wrong. They don't necessarily understand that. Those are very non-egalitarian statements. If they considered them long enough, I bet they would war against the social injustice contained in them.

As a 20+ year resident of Portland also - I know Mr_White to be correct. Plant eaters infest this otherwise nice little portion of the Pacific Northwest. Which would be tolerable except they're so numerous and so damn militant with their opinions and ignorance - but I repeat myself...

[HCM]

I bet they would war against the social injustice contained in them.

It will be a short war. :cool:

[HCM]

As a 20+ year resident of Portland also - I know Mr_White to be correct. Plant eaters infest this otherwise nice little portion of the Pacific Northwest. Which would be tolerable except they're so numerous and so damn militant with their opinions and ignorance - but I repeat myself...

For when the time comes .....


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n2FKu5HKiR0

[StraitR]

Should it go south in 2016, I'm taking the entire contents of my safe to the first gun show following the election and selling it all to total strangers, for cash. I suppose I'll keep the 22lr Henry, Browning A-bolt, Rem 870, and G43 around for hunting and HD, but the rest of that evil awesomeness is going away to the first person waving cash. This post can even serve as evidence to the fact. Easy day.

But in all honesty, I'm truly concerned about what will happen in this country if the .gov tries a gun grab. It will be bad news for everyone, as plenty of people have already made up their minds to square up and shoot it out, many of which are perversely looking forward to it. My entire existence will revolve around keeping my family out of said crossfire. We live in a rural community, my children are young, my wife works from home, and my job permits the same, so we're better off than most.

[LittleLebowski]

http://www.troll.me/images/sam-elliot/youve-come-to-take-my-guns-guess-you-didnt-hear-about-the-tragic-boating-accident.jpg

[StraitR]

LMAO.

[Jeep]

As a resident of Portland, I am sorry to tell you that you are wrong. They don't necessarily understand that. Those are very non-egalitarian statements. If they considered them long enough, I bet they would war against the social injustice contained in them.

Oops. Sounds like I unknowingly committed a micro-aggression. I try to avoid that. I much prefer to knowingly commit my aggressions, be they micro or macro.

[cclaxton]

Wouldn't it make more sense to just buy fully assembled carbines, mags, etc.?>
Cody

[breakingtime91]

Wouldn't it make more sense to just buy fully assembled carbines, mags, etc.?>
Cody

$

[HCM]

A
Wouldn't it make more sense to just buy fully assembled carbines, mags, etc.?>
Cody

It depends, ARs are not that hard to build though it does require a few specialized tools. It is cheaper to build your own gun and it let you get exactly what you want. There is a certain self-reliance aspect to it in the same way that people like being able to work on their own Glocks.

Also unless things change radically the lower is the serialized part which is the actual "firearm" everything else can be bought be a mail order, the Internet, or in person for cash.

[GardoneVT]

I wouldn't stockpile guns , or even lowers.
I'd stockpile BCGs, Buffer Tubes, Springs, barrels, gas tubes, and other logistical accoutrements. Assuming grandfathering pre-ban guns happens, I'd wouldn't want to be a poor dude with a broken bolt carrier ten years past D-Day.

[LittleLebowski]

Wouldn't it make more sense to just buy fully assembled carbines, mags, etc.?>
Cody

One, the lower IS the AR for all intents and purposes. That means everything else is a non-tracked, non-serialized part. That means if a ban was passed, you would have no problem building up your lowers you bought on the cheap or.....selling your cheap lowers for a nice profit.

Two, lowers are extremely cheap right now and I sincerely doubt they will be this cheap for long unless we have a Republican candidate winning in nationwide polls next year (I doubt it). So, strike while the iron's hot.

[Jay585]

I think with the popularity and ease of making "ghost guns" :rolleyes: there might not be such a hard panic (for AR's) as in previous years.

[StraitR]

One, the lower IS the AR for all intents and purposes. That means everything else is a non-tracked, non-serialized part. That means if a ban was passed, you would have no problem building up your lowers you bought on the cheap or.....selling your cheap lowers for a nice profit.

Two, lowers are extremely cheap right now and I sincerely doubt they will be this cheap for long unless we have a Republican candidate winning in nationwide polls next year (I doubt it). So, strike while the iron's hot.

I'm not arguing for the "it makes more sense to buy fully assembled carbines", but you're assuming a lot here.

1- That any new ban will allow grandfathering.

2- That any new ban that allows grandfathering will allow the continued production of new evil parts for grandfathered evil guns.

3- That any new ban that allows grandfathering will allow buying, selling, or trading of evil parts for grandfathered evil guns.

The Dems learned a lot from the Brady Bill, and I don't expect them to make similar concessions the next time they swing for the fences.

[LOKNLOD]

I'm not arguing for the "it makes more sense to buy fully assembled carbines", but you're assuming a lot here.

1- That any new ban will allow grandfathering.


Technically un-assembled lowers weren't grandfathered even under the '94 ban. They had to have been an AW at that point to count. Emphasis on "technically".

Besides, if a new ban comes along that doesn't allow grandfathering, at least I'll be out a bunch of $75 lowers, and not a bunch of $1000 rifles, right?

[LittleLebowski]

I'm not arguing for the "it makes more sense to buy fully assembled carbines", but you're assuming a lot here.

1- That any new ban will allow grandfathering.

2- That any new ban that allows grandfathering will allow the continued production of new evil parts for grandfathered evil guns.

3- That any new ban that allows grandfathering will allow buying, selling, or trading of evil parts for grandfathered evil guns.

The Dems learned a lot from the Brady Bill, and I don't expect them to make similar concessions the next time they swing for the fences.

I'll take my chances. I completely doubt that any of that will happen except for perhaps mag bans.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

After the research showing that the AWB had no effect on any crime indices, the antigun scholarly world argued for draconian bans of anything that was military derivative, mags of higher capacities and mandatory turn-ins and confiscation.

If we got an administration that went again for an AWB, expect that. Look at Los Angles now. Work arounds like NY compliant AR type guns would be quickly seen for what they are. Cuomo was stupid with his bans, a new national one would be tighter.

However, I doubt any conceivable Congress would pass such unless we had an incident or incidents or such horror, that a moral panic would steamroller something through. It can happen on the state level but I doubt on the Federal.

[LittleLebowski]

Five lowers for $200 and there's better deals than that out there. Sounds good to me :)

[StraitR]

I'll take my chances. I completely doubt that any of that will happen except for perhaps mag bans.

LL, I concur, but felt there were some gleaming assumptions being made by many cheerleading for stockpiling lowers, your post just happened to be the last. I would get in on the lower group buy, but I simply have no need for any, as there are several complete AR's collecting dust in the safe as is. Mags are covered too, although some rebuild kits would be prudent. The only thing I really feel compelled to start buying and stocking early is ammo and reloading supplies. Admittedly, I thought I was pretty well covered, but post Sandy Hook shooting wiped out a considerable portion of my rainy-day stash. I'd like to be a bit more plush in the ammo department come election time.

[LSP972]

However, I doubt any conceivable Congress would pass such unless we had an incident or incidents or such horror, that a moral panic would steamroller something through. It can happen on the state level but I doubt on the Federal.

This is what concerns me. Sooner or later, one of these whack jobs is going to successfully execute a true mass-murder, and I think it very possible- nay, likely- that if its bad enough, Congress will feel the heat to do SOMETHING, and pass sweeping bans unilaterally. And like has been mentioned… no grandfathering/exclusions/exceptions this time, guys.

.

[ranger]

I always thought that primers are the item to keep on hand - that was my view until all the pistol powder disappeared.

[LittleLebowski]

This is what concerns me. Sooner or later, one of these whack jobs is going to successfully execute a true mass-murder, and I think it very possible- nay, likely- that if its bad enough, Congress will feel the heat to do SOMETHING, and pass sweeping bans unilaterally. And like has been mentioned… no grandfathering/exclusions/exceptions this time, guys.

.

I know that I started a pessimistic thread and now I'm controverting myself by being optimistic but even I don't see confiscations happening. That's my personal opinion, I have no problem with stockpiling lever and wheel guns either :D

[Gray222]

Sweeping bans?

Lol, yeah no.

Worked once upon a time, doubt itll work again and even if it does there are plenty that would resist.

[Drang]

I know that I started a pessimistic thread and now I'm controverting myself by being optimistic but even I don't see confiscations happening. ...
I refer to such reversals as getting in touch with my Inner Walt Whitman (http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/26914.html).

[LittleLebowski]

I refer to such reversals as getting in touch with my Inner Walt Whitman (http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/26914.html).

I wouldn't call it a reversal.

[LSP972]

Sweeping bans?

Lol, yeah no.



I hope you're right; I really do.

But I am reminded of those in our profession who said, "_I'LL_ never be party to confiscating guns!!!" But when push came to shove, guess what? They saddled up and followed orders.

Whatever. I wish I could share your optimism.

.

[Gray222]

I hope you're right; I really do.

But I am reminded of those in our profession who said, "_I'LL_ never be party to confiscating guns!!!" But when push came to shove, guess what? They saddled up and followed orders.

Whatever. I wish I could share your optimism.

.

Not too worried about that either. Cant be fired for not doing it, even we could someone would be comin to our houses to confiscate.

Good luck to those guys, they are going to need it.

[Jeep]

I hope you're right; I really do.

But I am reminded of those in our profession who said, "_I'LL_ never be party to confiscating guns!!!" But when push came to shove, guess what? They saddled up and followed orders.

Whatever. I wish I could share your optimism. .


I tend towards this view--and wish that I didn't. But its simple math. The other side only needs to win one time; we need to win every time. So even if there is only a 5% chance that such a bill would pass in any given year, there is over a 50% chance it will pass within 15 years.

That is why we all need to continually explain that gun control doesn't work (point to Mexico, which has some of the strictest gun laws around, which only serve to allow outlaws to victimize the innocent) and more importantly TAKE PEOPLE SHOOTING. Introducing people to shooting, and especially women and kids, is perhaps the most important thing we can do on this issue. We have to change the odds.

[41magfan]

I hope you're right; I really do.

But I am reminded of those in our profession who said, "_I'LL_ never be party to confiscating guns!!!" But when push came to shove, guess what? They saddled up and followed orders.

Whatever. I wish I could share your optimism.

.

Yep ....... the majority of COPS - and the overwhelming majority of military folks - will do exactly what they're told. And that's in an atmosphere of relative order.

[TGS]

Yep ....... the majority of COPS - and the overwhelming majority of military folks - will do exactly what they're told. And that's in an atmosphere of relative order.

Eh.

I only see an overt Säuberung (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_book_burnings) style gun confiscation happening with the cover of a state of emergency, like what happened in Katrina.

Otherwise, I think it's all about the long game and a slow degradation of rights and/or "wither on the vine," as already discussed.

[41magfan]

Eh.

I only see an overt Säuberung (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_book_burnings) style gun confiscation happening with the cover of a state of emergency, like what happened in Katrina.

Otherwise, I think it's all about the long game and a slow degradation of rights and/or "wither on the vine," as already discussed.

Exactly .... with blindly loyal "officials" tidying things up with the minority dissenters. If this country's populace is ever disarmed, history will - once again - repeat itself, and it will be accomplished exactly the same way it's been done every other time.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The deterioration of gun rights will (let me pontificate) by based on:

1. Urban areas driving states to put in creeping bans - NY, WA state, OR, LA, etc.
2. Moral Panic over some horror (don't want to give any ideas but I could think of some that would sweep ARs from the shelves).
3. A failure to defend the 2nd Amend. on SCOTUS level. Despite McDonald and Heller - lower courts will uphold 'reasonable restrictions', thanks to Scalia. The current SCOTUS shows no inclination to take on a definitive ruling to stop the creep. Most of the 5 are probably ok with it. Thomas protested on the last possible case but to no avail.
- Who knows wait a SCOTUS in a few years will be like. They could easily weaken the existing two decisions.

Hiding guns is a useless endeavor for the average person unless you think you are going Wolverines. Use a banned gun for SD, if it was ambiguous - that wouldn't look good. So folks might turn to a lever action pistol caliber rifle or a nice revolver. Maybe a nice 1911. That would handle most incidents anyway. You lose some ability at the extremes of incident intensity.

You have to argue that there is right to own our higher capacity guns as a natural or rationally defined right. But I've seen anti folk already argue from the gun world:

1. The average incident has no shots and if shots are fired only 3 as mean.
2. Folks argue that if carry an extra mag you are a crazy Ninja.
3. The Zumbo, Metcalf attack on EBRs.
4. Folks who argue that training is not needed to tote lethal instruments around in public.

There have been paens of praise for Metcalf standing up to the nuts. Add the Chipolte twins and PR efforts to attack the gun world can use some of its own denizens.

[LSP972]

Not too worried about that either. Cant be fired for not doing it...



How's that? If it is a national thing (Presidential Directive, etc.), you know the legal beagles will "interpret" that to mean it overrides the 2A- especially in a stated emergency, real or otherwise.

Therefore, you can't fall back on "I cannot obey an illegal order"… because it WILL be legal.

Bud, I'm not engaging in tin foil hat conspiracy theories here… this shit HAPPENED, in my back yard so to speak. I know of far too many folks who, like you, dismiss it as inconceivable.

I respectfully submit that you are all whistling in the graveyard.

.

[HCM]

How's that? If it is a national thing (Presidential Directive, etc.), you know the legal beagles will "interpret" that to mean it overrides the 2A- especially in a stated emergency, real or otherwise.

Therefore, you can't fall back on "I cannot obey an illegal order"… because it WILL be legal.

Bud, I'm not engaging in tin foil hat conspiracy theories here… this shit HAPPENED, in my back yard so to speak. I know of far too many folks who, like you, dismiss it as inconceivable.

I respectfully submit that you are all whistling in the graveyard.

.

Correct me if I'm wrong but when this did occur during Katrina, it's my understanding there were people who refused to surrender their guns and some standoffs as a result.

I agree with those who say that if it came down to confiscations most cops and probably an even higher percentage of military would simply follow orders.I can't control what they do I can only control what I do. I don't have young kids so I have that luxury. Not everyone does. Even among those who don't have this option, there will be a certain amount of noncompliance and passive resistance. I also believe the level of compliance will vary by region.

[GardoneVT]

In looking at the record, outright confiscation has not happened on a national scale in a first-world nation. Australia and England both went down the path of gradual burdens on gun ownership until so few were left that an outright ban basically impacted only a fraction of the population.

Fortunately, even the Australian model wouldnt financially work here: the cost to buy out every gun owner in America at market value would be far beyond astronomical. Insofar as confiscation goes, there's no point ; taking the weapons involves a PR risk and imposes the cost of weapons disposition after the fact.

Better to let the "Cold Dead Hands" crowd hide their toys behind wall spackle, as the point is accomplished either way- the firearms are taken out of public circulation.When Mr CDH eventually dies and someone else trips over the illegal collection, that "someone else" with have been raised in a nation ignorant of gun rights and will thus dutifully hand in the find to the police.

Or maybe they won't and chance gets them busted. Either way ordering a door to door confiscation would be counterproductive. Best to just ban the hardware and let time do the rest.

[Clay]

How's that? If it is a national thing (Presidential Directive, etc.), you know the legal beagles will "interpret" that to mean it overrides the 2A- especially in a stated emergency, real or otherwise.

Therefore, you can't fall back on "I cannot obey an illegal order"… because it WILL be legal.

Bud, I'm not engaging in tin foil hat conspiracy theories here… this shit HAPPENED, in my back yard so to speak. I know of far too many folks who, like you, dismiss it as inconceivable.

I respectfully submit that you are all whistling in the graveyard.

.

I agree 100%. I can't imagine how anyone, at this point in time, could put anything past our government. You're either ignorant, or not paying attention.

[Gray222]

How's that? If it is a national thing (Presidential Directive, etc.), you know the legal beagles will "interpret" that to mean it overrides the 2A- especially in a stated emergency, real or otherwise.

Therefore, you can't fall back on "I cannot obey an illegal order"… because it WILL be legal.

Bud, I'm not engaging in tin foil hat conspiracy theories here… this shit HAPPENED, in my back yard so to speak. I know of far too many folks who, like you, dismiss it as inconceivable.

I respectfully submit that you are all whistling in the graveyard.

.

Here's the thing though, if I disregard a direct order from a supervisor, they can suspend me for either insubordination or failure to take police action. Neither one can get me fired or jailed.

It'll go something like this:

"go to 1 main street and confiscate all their guns."
"No."
"You are disobeying a direct order?"
"Yep."
"ok..well...go handle some other jobs..."
"K."

...and that's that. Presidential directive or otherwise, I don't care, cannot make me take action that I know to be immoral or unethical and that's the route it'll take when I plead NOT GUILTY to my formal reprimand.

I will say, however, it is definitely dependent on the PD. My local union/FOP is too strong to let officer's burn for something like this so there will be no example set and no suspensions or firings. It'll just be what it is, that simple.

I will assume I won't be the only one in this stance, since there are plenty of people who won't do a thing if some magical ban occurs.

Honestly, this whole fantasy thing is beyond anything that would occur, I predict people will start shooting far before this point.

[TGS]

I will assume I won't be the only one in this stance, since there are plenty of people who won't do a thing if some magical ban occurs.

Honestly, this whole fantasy thing is beyond anything that would occur, I predict people will start shooting far before this point.

Magical ban? Fantasy thing?

As noted multiple times, it has already occurred in the US.

[Jeep]

Magical ban? Fantasy thing?

As noted multiple times, it has already occurred in the US.

Yep. Other things have as well. In 1933, FDR issued a presidential order banning the private ownership of gold and gold coins. He had absolutely no authority to do so (Congress, which might have had the authority, didn't ratify the ban for over 6 months. Yet, during those 6 months citizens were forced to surrender their gold and gold coins. FDR got away with it because it was at the height of the depression and the rules somehow stopped applying).

Similarly, FDR ordered US citizens of Japanese ancestry rounded up in 1942. He had the power to round up Japanese citizens; he simply invented the power to round up Americans of Japanese ancestry. The US Supreme Court then upheld FDR's action. Again, it was in the middle of a national emergency and the rules somehow stopped applying.

The same, at a local level, is what happened during Katrina.

History has given us plenty of proof that in times of perceived emergency, Constitutional rights can suddenly disappear without warning; the old rules no longer apply; and people with power and lots of guns can invent new rules--which often will be thereafter blessed by the courts.

[Gray222]

Magical ban? Fantasy thing?

As noted multiple times, it has already occurred in the US.

While there may be some occurrences in US history that seem like a "ban" there is nothing that occurred in the type of fantasy/magical ban like that which occurred in the UK or Australia. That's the mythical "everything is now banned" ban the left wants, that's not going to happen here. Even the AWB wasn't that progressive.

While I make no statements doubting it may be applicable here, as I previously stated, people would start shooting well before that.

[LSP972]

Correct me if I'm wrong but when this did occur during Katrina, it's my understanding there were people who refused to surrender their guns and some standoffs as a result.



About two weeks into it, IIRC. I was back at the command post in Baton Rouge by then, so I didn't have to make the choice. But I talked with plenty of guys who right there; and according to them, the feds did everything possible to downplay it with the media, all the while encouraging the action. The most publicized event was the two Chippies slam-dunking an old woman who refused to give up her iron. That one was Live at Five, if you will.

It was a real uneasy time, for sure.

.

[LSP972]

Here's the thing though, if I disregard a direct order from a supervisor, they can suspend me for either insubordination or failure to take police action. Neither one can get me fired or jailed.



Interesting. I hope your confidence in your union's steadfastness is not mis-placed, when the feds turn up the heat.

Your use of the words "magical" and "fantasy" tell me we're seriously at odds here; so I'll back away from this. Stay safe.

.

[Gray222]

Interesting. I hope your confidence in your union's steadfastness is not mis-placed, when the feds turn up the heat.

Your use of the words "magical" and "fantasy" tell me we're seriously at odds here; so I'll back away from this. Stay safe.

.

I have no confidence in my union, they are snakes, I am just speaking from experience and seeing the goings on internally.

[GardoneVT]

While I make no statements doubting it may be applicable here, as I previously stated, people would start shooting well before that.
You mean the same "people" who cant hit a B-27 at five yards?

Frankly if defending the RKBA requires armed action by Cleetus and Co,the only folks in the government who'll be dying will be those hospitalized for laughter. The whole "guns behind every blade of grass" premise only works if the people behind the guns can hit what they see.

[Gray222]

You mean the same "people" who cant hit a B-27 at five yards?

Frankly if defending the RKBA requires armed action by Cleetus and Co,the only folks in the government who'll be dying will be those hospitalized for laughter. The whole "guns behind every blade of grass" premise only works if the people behind the guns can hit what they see.

Think about it though, worst case scenario - clinton wins, starts a major super push for a UK/Australian style ban of everything and anything firearm, gunshops out of business, gun companies out of business, every man and woman told to give up their firearms or face arrest/jail.

Who thinks that's not going to start something big?

[TGS]

You mean the same "people" who cant hit a B-27 at five yards?

Frankly if defending the RKBA requires armed action by Cleetus and Co,the only folks in the government who'll be dying will be those hospitalized for laughter. The whole "guns behind every blade of grass" premise only works if the people behind the guns can hit what they see.

Pistols are not long guns.

Even some of worst rifle shots will still be able to effectively resist force, which history has repeatedly shown throughout many, many small wars. The Bundy Ranch standoff didn't even require shots fired. Lots of dudes ain't going to enforce gun confiscation if organized resistance, if even a show of force, is conducted.


Think about it though, worst case scenario - clinton wins, starts a major super push for a UK/Australian style ban of everything and anything firearm, gunshops out of business, gun companies out of business, every man and woman told to give up their firearms or face arrest/jail.

Who thinks that's not going to start something big?

It would definitely start something big, which is why it won't happen that way. It can easily be guised under a state of emergency like Katrina though, which I think is what all of us are trying to say can absolutely happen.

[Gray222]

It would definitely start something big, which is why it won't happen that way. It can easily be guised under a state of emergency like Katrina though, which I think is what all of us are trying to say can absolutely happen.

But there needs to be a state of emergency and once that is over, any provisions or "emergency actions / orders" taken will have to be reversed. Then again, if enough people hear that this type of thing is happening, they won't just let it. Think about certain southern states that don't take too kindly to this type of concept.

[WobblyPossum]

Didn't Congress pass, and GWB sign into law, the Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act of 2006 (part of the Homeland Security Appropriations Act of 2007) which prohibits the confiscation of firearms during a state of emergency if the possession of said firearms isn't prohibited by state/federal law? Unless I misunderstood the law, it was a direct response to the confiscations during Katrina with that goal of not repeating that nonsense.

[Gray222]

Didn't Congress pass, and GWB sign into law, the Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act of 2006 (part of the Homeland Security Appropriations Act of 2007) which prohibits the confiscation of firearms during a state of emergency if the possession of said firearms isn't prohibited by state/federal law? Unless I misunderstood the law, it was a direct response to the confiscations during Katrina with that goal of not repeating that nonsense.

I think the posts were about the federal agencies doing it anyway during an emergency to see what happens or try to use the state of an emergency to confiscate guns...

[WobblyPossum]

Yeah, I can see higher ups ordering those on the lower end of the chain of command to disregard that law and confiscate guns anyway. While things would have to be hashed out in courtrooms for years to come afterwards, it wouldn't really help Joe and Sally Citizen when the state police entered their home and demanded all their guns.

[LittleLebowski]

You mean the same "people" who cant hit a B-27 at five yards?

Frankly if defending the RKBA requires armed action by Cleetus and Co,the only folks in the government who'll be dying will be those hospitalized for laughter. The whole "guns behind every blade of grass" premise only works if the people behind the guns can hit what they see.

Rifles change everything.

[TGS]

Didn't Congress pass, and GWB sign into law, the Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act of 2006 (part of the Homeland Security Appropriations Act of 2007) which prohibits the confiscation of firearms during a state of emergency if the possession of said firearms isn't prohibited by state/federal law? Unless I misunderstood the law, it was a direct response to the confiscations during Katrina with that goal of not repeating that nonsense.

I'm under the impression that it only applies to federal agents, or those state/local agencies in receipt of federal emergency funds. I.e., your local/state cops can still perform forced entries without warrants and beat the living fucking shit out of a old ladies like they did in New Orleans....they just can't get federal funds.

If I'm mistaken, please correct me.

In addition, they can "play games." Temporary seizure is still allowed by the Vitter Amendment. Is there anything in the Vitter Amendment clarifying police cannot require a burden upon the citizen to prove the gun is theirs? In Katrina the cops required receipts with some citizens. Good luck finding your receipts for the guns you've purchased over your lifetime after your house and/or paperwork is destroyed in a natural disaster, or guns which you inherited. The cops answer after Katrina? "Get a lawyer."

Fuck that. That's not a protection of your civil rights.

Either way, this article (http://www.level-headed.net/2013/05/gun-confiscation-in-america/) very clearly summarizes that there is no shortage of policy makers who are continually considering different ways to confiscate guns.

[HCM]

1) Yes, there are always people, both in power and out seeking to disarm Americans.
2) Yes, those people have learned lessons from their prior efforts and will close every loophole they can if they get another opportunity.
3) Yes, it is possible some horrible event may give those people that opportunity for a total ban on high capacity firearms and /or semi auto firearms.
4) If this were to occur, the most likely scenario would be a minimal "die on the vine" enforcement strategy letting time do the work.
5) In a state of emergency serious enough to prompt gun confiscation the LAST thing I would do is turn my guns. while this is certainly possible it is extremely unlikely on a national scale.
6) There are significant numbers of law-enforcement and military who would follow orders to confiscate guns from American citizens, but not all.
7) At the same time there are significant numbers of citizens who would roll over and give up their guns but again, not all.
8) Of the percentage which decide to fight if even half of them have any idea what they're doing they can make it bloody and expensive.
9) This would play out somewhat differently in different parts of the country. As others have said rifles change everything.

[Sensei]

1) Yes, there are always people, both in power and out seeking to disarm Americans.
2) Yes, those people have learned lessons from their prior efforts and will close every loophole they can if they get another opportunity.
3) Yes, it is possible some horrible event may give those people that opportunity for a total ban on high capacity firearms and /or semi auto firearms.
4) If this were to occur, the most likely scenario would be a minimal "die on the vine" enforcement strategy letting time do the work.
5) In a state of emergency serious enough to prompt gun confiscation the LAST thing I would do is turn my guns. while this is certainly possible it is extremely unlikely on a national scale.
6) There are significant numbers of law-enforcement and military who would follow orders to confiscate guns from American citizens, but not all.
7) At the same time there are significant numbers of citizens who would roll over and give up their guns but again, not all.
8) Of the percentage which decide to fight if even half of them have any idea what they're doing they can make it bloody and expensive.
9) This would play out somewhat differently in different parts of the country. As others have said rifles change everything.

I tend to agree with all of your points. The only thing that I'd add to your #8 and 9 is that the police, and to a lesser extent military, living among those who they are sworn to protect has powerful negative incentive when it comes to LE/mil enforcing widely unpopular or illegal orders like gun confiscations. This is because they intuitively know that their families would become easy "soft" targets when it comes to the inevitable unrest. Where ethics and morality may fail, a strong sense of self preservation may win the day.

[GardoneVT]

I tend to agree with all of your points. The only thing that I'd add to your #8 and 9 is that the police, and to a lesser extent military, living among those who they are sworn to protect has powerful negative incentive when it comes to LE/mil enforcing widely unpopular or illegal orders like gun confiscations. This is because they intuitively know that their families would become easy "soft" targets when it comes to the inevitable unrest. Where ethics and morality may fail, a strong sense of self preservation may win the day.

How would confiscation in the US even work?

300 million guns in estimated circulation. The overtime and manpower cost to transport and catalogue half that amount would be prohibitively expensive. DC may as well order the confiscation of every DVD player in the country.

I cant speak to other areas, but in my state the notion of cops going door to door to seize arms is a pipe dream. There aren't enough people or vehicles to do the job. The local Sheriff would look at a confiscation order and laugh-even if he was an anti gun stooge (he isn't), how is he supposed to seize thousands of firearms with 20 deputies while still maintaining the jail and local patrol duties?

[HCM]

How would confiscation in the US even work?

300 million guns in estimated circulation. The overtime and manpower cost to transport and catalogue half that amount would be prohibitively expensive. DC may as well order the confiscation of every DVD player in the country.

I cant speak to other areas, but in my state the notion of cops going door to door to seize arms is a pipe dream. There aren't enough people or vehicles to do the job. The local Sheriff would look at a confiscation order and laugh-even if he was an anti gun stooge (he isn't), how is he supposed to seize thousands of firearms with 20 deputies while still maintaining the jail and local patrol duties?

That's exactly what I was talking about regarding regional differences. If your local cops or state troopers wear cowboy hats things are likely going to go different than if your state troopers look like they're ready to invade Poland, yes New Jersey and Massachusetts, I'm talking about you.

[Hambo]

Even some of worst rifle shots will still be able to effectively resist force, which history has repeatedly shown throughout many, many small wars. The Bundy Ranch standoff didn't even require shots fired. Lots of dudes ain't going to enforce gun confiscation if organized resistance, if even a show of force, is conducted.


Two things. First, a lot of the tough talkers would get weak in the knees at the first sign of trouble. It's one thing to say you'll stand up and quite another to actually face death or prison. Second, Waco. Rifle fire will work against the guys who come and ask, but after you shoot one and the armor rolls up you're fucked.

As some have noted, significant national gun control will come incrementally, not all at once. If you're not, get active politically right now.

[HCM]

Two things. First, a lot of the tough talkers would get weak in the knees at the first sign of trouble. It's one thing to say you'll stand up and quite another to actually face death or prison. Second, Waco. Rifle fire will work against the guys who come and ask, but after you shoot one and the armor rolls up you're fucked.

As some have noted, significant national gun control will come incrementally, not all at once. If you're not, get active politically right now.

If you hold up in your house like it's the Alamo it's going to end like the Alamo. Plan accordingly.

Agreed 100% on political involvement. Speaking of, for those following the Republican follies, Trump and Dr. Carson are in no way supporters of the second Amendmemt.

[Sensei]

How would confiscation in the US even work?

300 million guns in estimated circulation. The overtime and manpower cost to transport and catalogue half that amount would be prohibitively expensive. DC may as well order the confiscation of every DVD player in the country.

I cant speak to other areas, but in my state the notion of cops going door to door to seize arms is a pipe dream. There aren't enough people or vehicles to do the job. The local Sheriff would look at a confiscation order and laugh-even if he was an anti gun stooge (he isn't), how is he supposed to seize thousands of firearms with 20 deputies while still maintaining the jail and local patrol duties?

It wouldn't and I don't think that I'll ever see a confiscatory policy in my lifetime.


If you hold up in your house like it's the Alamo it's going to end like the Alamo. Plan accordingly.

Agreed 100% on political involvement. Speaking of, for those following the Republican follies, Trump and Dr. Carson are in no way supporters of the second Amendmemt.

Yep, that is the problem with non-politicians. They tend to tell you what they really think and then have to evolve on issues once they realized that they just pissed of their base. In Carson's case, I'm not surprised that a guy raised out of a hood to become a pediatric neurosurgeon in a hospital that sees tons of penetrating trauma might have less than a stellar record on gun control. In my hospital, the NRA is viewed in the same light as the Natzi Party and I suspect that it is similar in much of academic medicine. I'm not excusing his evolution; only saying that I can see how his background could start him off on the wrong foot. Trump, on the other hand, has been a lifelong Democrat until recently and I have no expectation that he'd be anything other than Obama's 3rd term if elected based on his previous positions before running for office.

[LittleLebowski]

Unfortunately, I think they will go after where we shoot (EPA) and what we shoot (ammo, make it "green" and therefore expensive) and so on.

[LSP972]

Two things. First, a lot of the tough talkers would get weak in the knees at the first sign of trouble. It's one thing to say you'll stand up and quite another to actually face death or prison. Second, Waco. Rifle fire will work against the guys who come and ask, but after you shoot one and the armor rolls up you're fucked.



Exactly.

.

[LittleLebowski]

So, has anyone revised their opinion of the actual implementation of overwhelming federal firepower after the Bundy Ranch fiasco?

I am not denying the fact that the feds would win if they were committed. I am looking to discuss whether or not they would actually commit to a battle with citizens.

Disclaimer: I am a full time federal employee. Not a tin foil hat guy.

I (cheap AR lowers) think (cheap AR lowers) this (cheap AR lowers) discussion (cheap AR lowers) has (cheap AR lowers) been (cheap AR lowers) great (cheap AR lowers) and (cheap AR lowers) am (cheap AR lowers) glad (cheap AR lowers) we (cheap AR lowers) are (cheap AR lowers)staying (cheap AR lowers) civil (cheap AR lowers).

[TGS]

I don't think they would.

Someone brought up Waco earlier, and tanks.

That was a very different situation than a gun ban. That was a complex investigation covering the gambit from arms trafficking to rape and murder, not to mention the credible belief that people were being held in the compound against their will. That literally pooled national resources to pull off that sort of manpower and equipment. You wouldn't get that on a local level all over the nation.

[Chris Rhines]

Unfortunately, I think they will go after where we shoot (EPA) and what we shoot (ammo, make it "green" and therefore expensive) and so on.

This right here.

If the NRA really wanted to do something to promote gun ownership in the younger generations, a program to open new public/semi-public ranges in underserved states would be a good way to start.

[Hambo]

I don't think they would.

Someone brought up Waco earlier, and tanks.

That was a very different situation than a gun ban. That was a complex investigation covering the gambit from arms trafficking to rape and murder, not to mention the credible belief that people were being held in the compound against their will. That literally pooled national resources to pull off that sort of manpower and equipment. You wouldn't get that on a local level all over the nation.

That was me, and I said armor, not tanks. Quite a few PDs have MRAPs these days. It doesn't matter what starts it, what matters is that LE can't and won't just go away.

[LittleLebowski]

This right here.

If the NRA really wanted to do something to promote gun ownership in the younger generations, a program to open new public/semi-public ranges in underserved states would be a good way to start.

This bears repeating and I will try to start a thread on this.

[45dotACP]

Unfortunately, I think they will go after where we shoot (EPA) and what we shoot (ammo, make it "green" and therefore expensive) and so on.


That and likely "Sensible" gun control and "compromise" which consists of "giving up rights and receiving nothing in return".

"Wither on the vine" seems to be the most appropriate description of the whole situation, but I don't think it will be implemented on a national level. The lefties learned their lesson with the post Sandy Hook push for gun control, so they'll do it smarter.

I think we'll likely see enormous amounts of money being poured into states by such and such billionaire (Soros, Bloomberg, Gates etc...) and their respective groups to enact gun control state by state to the point where any attempt to file suit under supreme court will find such laws to be "reasonable restrictions"

There's only really one NRA, but the anti gun groups are only multiplying. Don't forget to join your state groups!

[StraitR]

So, has anyone revised their opinion of the actual implementation of overwhelming federal firepower after the Bundy Ranch fiasco?

I am not denying the fact that the feds would win if they were committed. I am looking to discuss whether or not they would actually commit to a battle with citizens.

Disclaimer: I am a full time federal employee. Not a tin foil hat guy.

I (cheap AR lowers) think (cheap AR lowers) this (cheap AR lowers) discussion (cheap AR lowers) has (cheap AR lowers) been (cheap AR lowers) great (cheap AR lowers) and (cheap AR lowers) am (cheap AR lowers) glad (cheap AR lowers) we (cheap AR lowers) are (cheap AR lowers)staying (cheap AR lowers) civil (cheap AR lowers).

My gut says no, they would not commit, but with any administration that has the balls to go full on "gun grab", you can bet this level of commitment has already been discussed. The decision would have already been made to which level they would back down, but going all out on the first real group of non-capitulators could be exactly what they do to show their resolve. At that point, the line in the sand has been clearly defined.

If you listen to much of what is said by the left about gun control and "the greater good", is it really THAT unimaginable? I dunno, not long ago I would have said no way, but at this point, I'm not as sure. Again, I'm not convinced that they would, but I'm not really convinced that they wouldn't. I'm not a tin foil hat guy either, but I don't put anything past the desire and capabilities of man.

And suddenly I'm struck with an overwhelming desire to purchase cheap AR lowers. Strange.

[LittleLebowski]

And suddenly I'm struck with an overwhelming desire to purchase cheap AR lowers. Strange.

http://i.imgur.com/kWwk0zK.jpg

[Gray222]

http://i.imgur.com/kWwk0zK.jpg

ditto.

[pdb]

5 Anderson stripped lowers for $200 at Brownells: http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-parts/receivers/lower-receivers/ar-15-stripped-lower-receiver-prod75094.aspx

[CCT125US]

Not to open a can of worms, but is there any consensus on who makes good / bad lowers? I am a believer in that you get what you pay for. Is a $150 lower really that much better than a $50 one? At what point does it matter? What is the Taurus / Sig / Smith / Hk of lowers?

[pdb]

Not to open a can of worms, but is there any consensus on who makes good / bad lowers? I am a believer in that you get what you pay for. Is a $150 lower really that much better than a $50 one? At what point does it matter? What is the Taurus / Sig / Smith / Hk of lowers?

I am not an SME. I have, however, stayed at a Holiday Inn Express and put together ... a lot of ARs and made a lot of stupid mistakes.

We are fortunate in that most receivers come out of the same forge plants and are generally pretty good. The only certified NOGOs are any polymer or plastic lowers that aren't the old Cav Arms unit. I also dislike Olympic and Hesse/Vulcan on principle.

I am very partial to Aero Precision receivers at the moment. They are well finished and the hole positions and diameters are all perfect, especially for the price and in all my interactions with the company, they truly give a crap and will make the customer happy. Also their rollmark isn't obnoxious and they have a few options as to markings and such. If you're a super cheapskate like me, keep an eye on their blem page: http://aeroprecisionusa.com/on-sale/blemished.html . I've built 2 ARs on their blem lowers and could not find the blemish.

YMMV, IMHO, etc.

[LittleLebowski]

We might have a PF group buy coming on Aero lowers.

[pdb]

We might have a PF group buy coming on Aero lowers.


http://api.ning.com/files/Xn6RV5Y50pbFK-4nfM7GdDho7NF3Lm7FDmT9YQonKh4_/orly.jpg

[LittleLebowski]

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?16909-Possible-PF-AR15-Aero-lower-group-buy

[LittleLebowski]

Not my receipt :( This happened last week.

http://i.imgur.com/HFi98vB.jpg

[ffhounddog]

Dang my credit card would have jumped out and said use me get it and all that.

Funny, I never see deals like that in NOVA but I have not seen ARs in Nova Wal marts in a long time but I hardley go there now.

Best deal on an AR seems to be the Ruger AR556 when Gander has em at $599.

[LOKNLOD]

Not my receipt :( This happened last week.


Daaaaaaaammnnnn.


Yeah I would have got all I could at that price as well. Maybe I need to run by the local Walmarts...

[Palmguy]

Holy sheep...

[Dagga Boy]

I got called about the Walmart thing, but none of them in my area carry guns anymore.

[SeriousStudent]

I took a thousand bucks cash to four local Walmarts this afternoon - no joy.

Back in the bank it goes. :(

[WobblyPossum]

Does anyone have a contact at Walmart who I can email to complaint about the lack of $500 Colt ARs at my local store?

[Malamute]

I called my local one today after seeing this. Guys aid they had a sale on the AR's a week or so ago and they wont be getting any more in.

G&R Tactical has the Colt OEM-1's for $725 though.

[5pins]

Looks like they were on sale because they are closing them out.


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/walmart-stop-selling-assault-rifles-170634890.html

[SeriousStudent]

Perhaps some things are getting better, in regards to powder scarcity. I was able to buy two pounds of Bullseye on the way home from work. That's the first time I have seen it in over two years in a local retail store.

[ranger]

I just found WSF Winchester Super Field at my local gun store - have not seen it for years and I was almost out. I bought an 8 lb jug of WSF. Very happy to find it.

[ssb]

For those of you who own Glocks, any thought on picking up some of the Magpul mags for storage/training use? It's a question of whether or not I want four mags per $100 or six mags per $100. My serious mags would remain OEM, obviously.

[Kyle Reese]

For those of you who own Glocks, any thought on picking up some of the Magpul mags for storage/training use? It's a question of whether or not I want four mags per $100 or six mags per $100. My serious mags would remain OEM, obviously.

The Magpul Glock mags are good to go.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[45dotACP]

I have not the slightest damn clue as to why the producers of gunpowder haven't got through their heads that the increased demand for powder may be permanent...

Sent from my VS876 using Tapatalk

[LSP972]

I have not the slightest damn clue as to why the producers of gunpowder haven't got through their heads that the increased demand for powder may be permanent...

Sent from my VS876 using Tapatalk

Keep in mind this is hearsay, although from a pretty reliable source (Donnie Miculek).

Apparently, US producers have scaled back their powder production and have been relying on Austrailian imported stuff (made to US specs) for some time now. What has been the major sticking point was a sudden move by the Aussie government to restrict the number of containers carrying HazMat stuff aboard each departing ship. IOW, they cannot ship as much product.

With some of the old-time powder brands being acquired other firms (Hercules/Alliant, etc.), and the supposed fact Winchester is not going to re-locate their powder facility to Mississippi from Illinois, there are definitely some major changes going on the powder/propellant industry. Which is why I'm buying excess to my current needs when I can.

And the ones making fun of me "stockpiling" or "hoarding" will be the first ones who come begging for some when Cabela's/et.al. is fresh out… for the forseeable future.

.

[Matt O]

Apparently, US producers have scaled back their powder production and have been relying on Austrailian imported stuff (made to US specs) for some time now.

Any idea as to why they'd scale back production despite growing demand?

Edited to add: Just curious if this is solely due to market consolidation/acquisitions, or if the margins just suck in powder manufacturing and for companies who have their fingers in multiple areas of the firearms industry, there just isn't enough incentive to invest in meeting additional powder production demand.

[LSP972]

Beats me. And that's supposition, BTW… those that know for sure, ain't talking.;)

.

[LittleLebowski]

If you're not in the NoVA area, Brownells has stripped Anderson lowers for $42 per (www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-parts/receivers/lower-receivers/ar-15-stripped-lower-receiver-prod75094.aspx?aid=1007).

[5pins]

If you're not in the NoVA area, Brownells has stripped Anderson lowers for $42 per (http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-parts/receivers/lower-receivers/ar-15-stripped-lower-receiver-prod75094.aspx?aid=1007).

Widener’s has them for $37. I picked up two last month.

https://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=100002137&dir=700|863|1068

[LittleLebowski]

Well, Obama just ran his suck on gun control again tonight. Let's see what the market does.

[breakingtime91]

Well, Obama just ran his suck on gun control again tonight. Let's see what the market does.

sgammo wont even load.

[PNWTO]

sgammo wont even load.

There goes my 2016 training ammo budget... fuck, and magically .22 LR has probably vaporized.

[breakingtime91]

I'm not worried yet, I think it'll blow over but when it does I'll probably avoid buying other stuff so I can load up..

[ssb]

I picked up ten PMAGs for the Glock as part of my planned 2016 purchases... this morning. Lucked out on that one. Not a bad price, either -- $12.50/ea, with free shipping (http://lanbosarmory.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=29636&referrer=cnwr_4191340829622). It would appear that he managed to sell a little over 200 mags since I made my order.

I'm glad I picked up enough Gold Dots to last me several years this summer. Really wishing I'd bought more FMJ, though. Ah well -- I've got enough for at least the next few months.

[breakingtime91]

ya, more 124+p GD is on my list for sure.

[Gray222]

Well, Obama just ran his suck on gun control again tonight. Let's see what the market does.

there should be a stock ticker for guns.

[LSP972]

That's exactly what I was talking about regarding regional differences. If your local cops or state troopers wear cowboy hats things are likely going to go different than if your state troopers look like they're ready to invade Poland, yes New Jersey and Massachusetts, I'm talking about you.

LOL. Just saw this… good for an early-morning laugh.

Unfortunately, its 100% spot-on.

.

[LittleLebowski]

Gun control push coming in Senate
(http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/256077-dems-to-make-gun-control-push-on-thursday)


Senate Democrats are planning to unveil a new gun-control proposal on Thursday in the wake of a shooting at a community college in Oregon.

"We've had a number of meetings today with Democratic senators," Minority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) told reporters. "So we're going to move forward. We have a program. We're going to do some press on this on Thursday."

Asked about what his new "program" would include, Reid declined to get into details, saying, "We're going to make sure this is inclusive, that all my caucus is involved in this, and we're not going to outline stuff here today."

[Kyle Reese]

I'm investing in powder, primers and bullets for 9mm.

[breakingtime91]

I'm investing in powder, primers and bullets for 9mm.

smart move, I may order another thousand tonight or tomorrow..

[ffhounddog]

If you're not in the NoVA area, Brownells has stripped Anderson lowers for $42 per (www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-parts/receivers/lower-receivers/ar-15-stripped-lower-receiver-prod75094.aspx?aid=1007).

Where can I find $42.00 lowers?

[GardoneVT]

Where can I find $42.00 lowers?

Soon, in the history books.

[ssb]

My usual ammo sites are looking pretty thin. Stuff's there but there isn't a whole lot of it.

[LittleLebowski]

Where can I find $42.00 lowers?

In the link you quoted. It's right there, orange letters.

[breakingtime91]

Actually you guys are silly, I'm gonna start investing in bows, arrows, and swords.

[ffhounddog]

I want them in NOVA no shipping, or transfer.

[Kyle Reese]

I'm buying a PF logo'd lower for my daughter, who will be here in December. :cool:

[ffhounddog]

I guess hoodbridge it is.

[ffhounddog]

I'm buying a PF logo'd lower for my daughter, who will be here in December. :cool:

:cool:

Outstanding!

I was thinking another Anderson since I do not know when the PF lower will be avaliable. Going to form 1 another lower here soon. But democraps are doing it again, so maybe more ammo.

[LittleLebowski]

Just picked up the last 4 Anderson lowers Quantico tactical had in. $170 out the door.

[ffhounddog]

I got two Andersons ��

[45dotACP]

Actually you guys are silly, I'm gonna start investing in bows, arrows, and swords.
My plan is for that to happen later on. Like after everything else is swept from the shelves by the swarm of locu....erm
..hoarders that will inevitably descend on every gun shop if Clinton takes office.

Good luck ever finding .22lr or pistol powder ever.

Sent from my VS876 using Tapatalk

[BWT]

I hate to sound cynical.

However,
- The situation with Russia portraying strength in Syria and backing Assad.
- The resulting hundreds of thousands of refugees running rampant across Europe.
- Our economy stumbling (and weakly bouncing back, maybe?) despite our rock bottom interest rates.
(ETA: ) - I forgot the situation in Iran getting worse, and by the way apparently we're going to lift sanctions on Iran which could yield the following issues for our domestic energy markets. (http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-07-23/iranian-oil-could-hurt-russia-and-the-u-s-).
- I also forgot about troop commanders asking to extend our time in Afghanistan (http://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2015/09/30/us-military-favors-keeping-troops-in-afghanistan-past-2016).
- That's not even discussing ISIS and the Kurds.

Why wouldn't they pounce on something like gun control right now in a country that's at a 30 year low in gun violence?

It's a great distraction from real issues going on.

That being said. We're headed into a presidential election; I don't know how suicidal some of the senators are feeling.

Why are Republicans even talking about cooperating?

God Bless,

Brandon.

[LittleLebowski]

I got two Andersons ��

Big month for you after the suppressor purchases you kept talking about (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?17242-New-SilencerCo-products&p=355327&viewfull=1#post355327).

[LittleLebowski]

Coldest winter in memory.

Failed wheat harvest in Russia.

America stands alone

[ffhounddog]

Big month for you after the suppressor purchases you kept talking about (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?17242-New-SilencerCo-products&p=355327&viewfull=1#post355327).

Yeah. Well, its one of those things with two little dudes coming along due in March and I still have not ordered the Omega. 4 silencers on order basically because of a large check due to a 1.5 year wait on a step increase. Waiting on an Army check for the Omega. Hybrid seems interesting but no need at the moment. I have Been selling guns I do not need, or never shoot, and still have not spent any of the tax return yet but might if there is a run on ammo, and the truck is paid off.

Listening to your warning about 2016 since after the kids come, only ammo, mags, a 10/22, and a 22/45 for a long while.

[FNFAN]

How would confiscation in the US even work?

300 million guns in estimated circulation. The overtime and manpower cost to transport and catalogue half that amount would be prohibitively expensive. DC may as well order the confiscation of every DVD player in the country.

I cant speak to other areas, but in my state the notion of cops going door to door to seize arms is a pipe dream. There aren't enough people or vehicles to do the job. The local Sheriff would look at a confiscation order and laugh-even if he was an anti gun stooge (he isn't), how is he supposed to seize thousands of firearms with 20 deputies while still maintaining the jail and local patrol duties?

What if you had unlimited manpower with no ties to the community they "protect."

http://www.justice.gov/opa/speech/attorney-general-loretta-e-lynch-announces-launch-strong-cities-network-united-nations

[Malamute]

What if you had unlimited manpower with no ties to the community they "protect."

http://www.justice.gov/opa/speech/attorney-general-loretta-e-lynch-announces-launch-strong-cities-network-united-nations

Where would unlimited manpower come from?

[LittleLebowski]

Coldest winter in memory.

Failed wheat harvest in Canada.

America stands alone

Misanthropist version.

[Drang]

What if you had unlimited manpower with no ties to the community they "protect."

http://www.justice.gov/opa/speech/attorney-general-loretta-e-lynch-announces-launch-strong-cities-network-united-nations

What did I just /r/e/a/d/ black out while trying to read?

[GardoneVT]

What if you had unlimited manpower with no ties to the community they "protect."

http://www.justice.gov/opa/speech/attorney-general-loretta-e-lynch-announces-launch-strong-cities-network-united-nations

This manifesto doesn't repeal the law of supply and demand. We cannot print the money necessary to buy back 300 million weapons at market value. We cannot send cops door to door without leaving communities deprived of police service for extended periods of time. We can't use the military, because Posse Comitatus and insufficient personnell.

Bottom line, confiscation on a national level is a gun control fan's pipe dream.

[helothar]

just ordered lowers from brownells, any recommendations on a quality LPK so I can make sure these are all working when I receive them?

[LittleLebowski]

just ordered lowers from brownells, any recommendations on a quality LPK so I can make sure these are all working when I receive them?

Why not just order from Brownells? http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-parts/parts-kits/lower-parts-kits/lower-receiver-parts-kit-sku100003639-26400-51793.aspx

[helothar]

Why not just order from Brownells? http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-parts/parts-kits/lower-parts-kits/lower-receiver-parts-kit-sku100003639-26400-51793.aspx
my knowledge about ar15 parts kits is pretty close to 0, however I've always heard to stay away from bushmaster when it comes to ar15s, is this an exception to that rule?

[Drang]

What if you had unlimited manpower with no ties to the community they "protect."

http://www.justice.gov/opa/speech/attorney-general-loretta-e-lynch-announces-launch-strong-cities-network-united-nations


What did I just /r/e/a/d/ black out while trying to read?

No, really, WTF is the "Strong Cities Network"?
All I can find is announcements and speeches full of sound and fury signifying nothing -- exactly as I expect from Obama and his minions -- and a whole bunch of commentary about the unconstitutional UN takeover of domestic policing, from both extremes of the blogosphere.
I expect Breitbart and similar sites to be critical, but when Obama has lost Democratic Underground...

[NEPAKevin]

my knowledge about ar15 parts kits is pretty close to 0, however I've always heard to stay away from bushmaster when it comes to ar15s, is this an exception to that rule?

I only own one Bushmaster from around the time after the AWB sunset when the market dropped like it is now and FWIW, the only problem I ran into was the the trigger pin was rough and benefited from little polishing. However, I too, have heard that new ones suffer from quality control issues.

[Malamute]

just ordered lowers from brownells, any recommendations on a quality LPK so I can make sure these are all working when I receive them?

G&R Tactical has Colt LPK's minus FCG for $60. Seems many like to upgrade those parts, so they put together an LPK without them. DD also has complete LPK's for $99.


http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=SPK99796


http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=21007

[ffhounddog]

my knowledge about ar15 parts kits is pretty close to 0, however I've always heard to stay away from bushmaster when it comes to ar15s, is this an exception to that rule?

I would get one of the ALG kits that Brownells has. But I know nothing.

[LittleLebowski]

my knowledge about ar15 parts kits is pretty close to 0, however I've always heard to stay away from bushmaster when it comes to ar15s, is this an exception to that rule?

It's probably fine. Usually I buy Bushmaster or DPMS and promptly add an ALG trigger (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00QHAV6EG/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B00QHAV6EG&linkCode=as2&tag=ratio07-20) as I prefer clean, mil spec triggers.

I'm sure that LPKs (lower parts kits) aren't all created equal but I've been fine with the aforementioned approach.

[TGS]

No, really, WTF is the "Strong Cities Network"?
All I can find is announcements and speeches full of sound and fury signifying nothing -- exactly as I expect from Obama and his minions -- and a whole bunch of commentary about the unconstitutional UN takeover of domestic policing, from both extremes of the blogosphere.
I expect Breitbart and similar sites to be critical, but when Obama has lost Democratic Underground...

I haven't been able to find anything linking it to a UN takeover. When I ask people, and ask them to also clarify how it will void the Supremacy Clause, I get no response.

People forget that their news feeds are HEAVILY seeded, and they start regurgitating what they're being fed without even reading it.

[Cowtown44]

http://www.sfexaminer.com/california-ballot-measure-seeks-to-tighten-strict-gun-laws/

This is probably on this thread somewhere but I didn't see it.

[ffhounddog]

In all the shortages for me, I could always find something in .223 mostly preminum $25 a box ammo, but pistol ammo was few and far between even defensive loads. So due to the "Dude" I am stocking up on pistol ammo from here on out and an occasional box of .22 that I can find.

[Chance]

[Bump: now that we know who the likely candidates are]

The clerk quipped, "Must be an election year."

Why yes, Mr. Clerk. Yes it is. These from DSG Arms (https://dsgarms.com/), by the way. Excellent store, lovely staff, you really must visit.

7393

The cat was not included in the purchase. She just doggedly (...see what I did there?) refused to move for the photo.

So I've collected a number of AR-15, and AR-10 style lowers, and I may look at picking up a few more. Honestly though, I don't know what I'd do with them, as everyone in my family with an interest in firearms already has theirs. I am working on procuring a lower for my AKS-74U parts kit. I order mags almost every month, and don't even know how many I have (easily dozens). What else is worth investing in before the election comes around?

Earlier in the thread, people discussed reloading equipment. Is that really worth hoarding money, and sinking into, right now?

NFA Trusts are in the process of changing, but I believe my CLEO (Tarrant county, Texas) is amenable to sign off on items.

I'm talking long term, not pre-election panic hoarding. Thoughts?

[Josh Runkle]

I'd stockpile ammo, ammo components and mags for common guns (like an AR15 or GLOCK 19, but not something like a P99).

You can buy pretty much anything else at any point.

[Malamute]

What else is worth investing in before the election comes around?

Thoughts?

If one has ARs, it may not be a bad idea to invest in a couple upper receivers and carriers modified for manual use. Then all the ammo, magazines etc aren't necessarily contraband related items. You can go out in public with them without issue, and the guns aren't all legally useless. Just replacing a couple parts makes them all wholesome and non-icky again.

[Chance]

I'd stockpile ammo, ammo components and mags for common guns (like an AR15 or GLOCK 19, but not something like a P99).

I can see there being periodic dearths of ammo, but is there any credible reason to suspect certain calibers just won't be available in the future, period?


If one has ARs, it may not be a bad idea to invest in a couple upper receivers and carriers modified for manual use.

Can you link to examples? I'm completely unfamiliar with such things.

[Josh Runkle]

I can see there being periodic dearths of ammo, but is there any credible reason to suspect certain calibers just won't be available in the future, period?



I had difficulty locating 9mm in 2014. I wanted about 30k rounds more than I could find. Suppliers were back ordered for a couple years, and I didn't want to shoot what little I had on hand.

Obviously this is not an issue if you only buy a few boxes at a time, but it was almost impossible to buy a week's worth of ammo for many months.

[Malamute]

Can you link to examples? I'm completely unfamiliar with such things.

Theres several ways its been done. The cocking handle can be the original one, or a side knob on right or left, with a corresponding slot machined in the side of the upper. I believe the guys in the UK can have ARs so done up. The gas tube is also removed, and the gas tube hole in the front sight base or gas block filled with a set screw I believe. The bolt is simply pulled back and released each shot to operate it.

Some of the hardware or modifications have been done by people simply wanting a solid cocking handle for regular semi auto use.

The cocking handle on the right and bent downwards looks like it may be easiest to use, but that's a guess, Ive not handled any of them.


https://www.google.com/search?q=straight+pull+bolt+action+ar15&biw=1093&bih=538&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjH1PaBtqPMAhWDVD4KHZiPCXUQsAQIGw&dpr=1.25

I had thought that a couple take-off S&W M&P sport stripped uppers and a couple cheap carriers would cover the most potentially expensive parts, the cocking handle could be bought or fabricated.

So far as I understand, in places that restrict semi autos, so long as a gun isn't semi-auto, all the evil features don't count. Its then a straight pull bolt action at that point.

http://33.media.tumblr.com/5cc18d902ed7b61ef51d73ee2afc0e59/tumblr_n9x87hBYZS1sctutso1_500.gif

[Sasage]

I have a few lowers, spare parts, PMAGS...

I will probably purchase more PMAGS and Glock Mags and a box of ammo every payday.

[ranger]

Primers......always want to keep plenty of primers on hand. Powder - just now got pistol powder restocked (Clays and WSF).

[LittleLebowski]

It's a tough day for me with Pat Rogers passing away today and for some reason, I thought of this thread, well not for "some reason." Last class I took from Pat (two weeks ago, AK rifle course), he wrapped up the class with a speech on how this nation is at the brink of losing all we are accustomed to and he also noted that this nation is more divided now than ever in his lifetime. Keep in mind that this observation is coming from a guy that went to Nam as a Marine barely able to vote and retired both from the Corps and the NYPD.

Get trained, stock up on everything. Don't be complacent. Panics are coming, bans could be coming.

[JAD]

Sigh. Another 10K primers and 8 pounds of powder. Just in case.

[LSP972]

... this nation is at the brink of losing all we are accustomed to...

Panics are coming, bans could be coming.

Indeed. What amazes me is how so many folks who should see it, refuse to buy into the concept.

Life goes on, eh?

.

[jh9]

Indeed. What amazes me is how so many folks who should see it, refuse to buy into the concept.

Life goes on, eh?

.

Panics I see. Bans I don't.

I remember the `94 awb. It happened right before the Democratic party ended a 40 year streak of controlling the house and the senate. They had control of the white house, and the larger American culture was, at best, quietly tolerant of civilian gun ownership. At least when it came to evil black assault rifles instead of pa's deer gun.

Fast foward to today, the GOP majority in the house will not change in the coming election. Probably not for the next Presidental administration. The senate will need a 60 vote majority to override a fillibuster that only one GOP senator will need to start. And the moderate Democratic reps from swing districts, in light of the far more open gun culture present today, would rather touch a real third rail than gun control at all.

Federal bans, no. State level inanity in CA, NY, NJ, etc, yes. But even there for every permanent mag ban they've gotten, they've lost ground on CCW.

I don't interpret the warnings as doom and gloom. But I do see them as politically unlikely.

[HCM]

stock up on everything. Panics are coming, bans could be coming.

I saw and lived through the Clinton movie back in the 1990's so in reverse order:

Bans have come before, I still have my "1994- 2004" ban era guns (bolts and levers) and I have revolvers and a decent stock of AR and pistol mags.

Panics will come again whether justified or not. Ammo panics in particular.

Most of us cant afford to stock up on "everything" so what to focus on?

I'm thinking priority is:

1) Mags - standard capacity mags will be a target and many like AR and Glock mags are essentially consumables.
2) Spare parts - particularly AR and pistol. At least one spare LPK, one spare BCG and a few spare bolts.
3) Ammo and / or components - with components Primers and powder over bullets.

For those with foreign / imported weapons, like SCARs, AUGs and Tavors, I would start looking for sources of recommended spare parts or proprietary magazines. Changing import regulations and interpretations of existing import regs is a much easier lift for an anti 2A administration than getting a ban through congress.

PS - anyone have lists of recommended spares for SCARs and AUGs ?

[Gray222]

http://i.imgur.com/cCYAAaY.jpg

[Sam]

State level inanity in CA...

It's seems that CA politicians have really increased the rate of bad legislation being proposed and without a friendly Supreme Court I'm not confident Californians will be able to get out of this for awhile.

[LSP972]

Panics I see. Bans I don't.

IFast foward to today, the GOP majority in the house will not change in the coming election. Probably not for the next Presidental administration. The senate will need a 60 vote majority to override a fillibuster that only one GOP senator will need to start. And the moderate Democratic reps from swing districts, in light of the far more open gun culture present today, would rather touch a real third rail than gun control at all.



I hope you're right; I truly do.

And FWIW, its not Congress I'm worried about.

.

[ranger]

I got a $20 coupon from Cabela's - just the excuse I need to buy more primers.

[GardoneVT]

I saw and lived through the Clinton movie back in the 1990's so in reverse order:

Bans have come before, I still have my "1994- 2004" ban era guns (bolts and levers) and I have revolvers and a decent stock of AR and pistol mags.

Panics will come again whether justified or not. Ammo panics in particular.

Most of us cant afford to stock up on "everything" so what to focus on?

I'm thinking priority is:

1) Mags - standard capacity mags will be a target and many like AR and Glock mags are essentially consumables.
2) Spare parts - particularly AR and pistol. At least one spare LPK, one spare BCG and a few spare bolts.
3) Ammo and / or components - with components Primers and powder over bullets.

For those with foreign / imported weapons, like SCARs, AUGs and Tavors, I would start looking for sources of recommended spare parts or proprietary magazines. Changing import regulations and interpretations of existing import regs is a much easier lift for an anti 2A administration than getting a ban through congress.

PS - anyone have lists of recommended spares for SCARs and AUGs ?

With ARs and other rifles of similar design, I'd not worry about "stocking up".

The antis have made it quite clear regarding Black Guns that any future AWB will be just that- a total ban. The options will be Hand Them In,presumably for some form of credit or compensation, or See The Judge.

[HCM]

With ARs and other rifles of similar design, I'd not worry about "stocking up".

The antis have made it quite clear regarding Black Guns that any future AWB will be just that- a total ban. The options will be Hand Them In,presumably for some form of credit or compensation, or See The Judge.

There is always a 3rd option. Sorry, not the Alamo option.

They might turn off the spigot of new AR's and adopt an attrition strategy but the ubiquity of the AR makes your argument impractical. There an estimated 8 to 9 million assault rifles in the U.S most of which are AR's.

Plus who are they going to get to go door to door ? I can put my papers in, but even for the guys who need the job and the paycheck there's a difference between pursuing it and going through the motions. No one wants to get shot over BS.

Even in Australia, where most guns were registered The majority of gun owners did not comply. What are the compliance rates with the NY SAFE Act ? Pretty damn low.

The overwhelming majority of BATFE prosecution are felon in possession cases referred for federal prosecution by local PD's. If the state and local authorities don't choose to cooperate, even under an attrition strategy the chance of being prosecuted would be minuscule. How many successful 922r prosecutions have there been ? None.

It would still suck having guns you can't really use but no one is going door to door.

[GardoneVT]

There is always a 3rd option. Sorry, not the Alamo option.

They might turn off the spigot of new AR's and adopt an attrition strategy but the ubiquity of the AR makes your argument impractical. There an estimated 8 to 9 million assault rifles in the U.S most of which are AR's.

Plus who are they going to get to go door to door ? I can put my papers in, but even for the guys who need the job and the paycheck there's a difference between pursuing it and going through the motions. No one wants to get shot over BS.

Even in Australia, where most guns were registered The majority of gun owners did not comply. What are the compliance rates with the NY SAFE Act ? Pretty damn low.

The overwhelming majority of BATFE prosecution are felon in possession cases referred for federal prosecution by local PD's. If the state and local authorities don't choose to cooperate, even under an attrition strategy the chance of being prosecuted would be minuscule. How many successful 922r prosecutions have there been ? None.

It would still suck having guns you can't really use but no one is going door to door.

Who needs to go door to door?

The antis would need only offer a tax credit/tax hike or some such combination to fund compensation for willingly handing in the banned guns. Naturally only a fraction of folks would comply, but that's not the point.
If it's illegal to own an AR,you can't take it to the range for practice. You can't use it at a carbine class. You can't use it for home defense, as you'd end up sentenced for the weapon even if your actual shooting was ruled justified. You can't even pick it up and go "pew pew" at home , lest the neighbors see it and phone the police.

Whether the rifles are in a confiscation area or a PVC pipe sealed and hidden behind drywall, the result is the same- the weapon is out of public circulation. Fast forward twenty years, and the only thing younger voters will know of ARs is that they were so horrible they got banned ,and some older people used to have them.

On and on it goes until the cultural zeitgeist shifts from "Popular Support of Guns" to "Call the Bomb Squad,there's a .22 casing in the yard." Their endgame isn't hardware, but social software of the voting base.

That's why the opposition is perfectly OK with fractional compliance rates. They know in the decades to come the guys burying ARs in their yards will get old and die, and when those properties are inherited it will be by people who've only known that guns are bad and were banned.

[LittleLebowski]

#NovemberIsComing

http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-parts/receivers/lower-receivers/ar-15-stripped-lower-receiver-prod75094.aspx

[NEPAKevin]

Brownell's has free shipping on orders over $150 through the end of the month. Code LG8

[LittleLebowski]

Ahem...

[CCT125US]

The benefits of forward thinking, mixed with experience, coupled with immediate action, leads to a calming effect amongst the sea of panic.

[Clay]

I damn near bumped this up last night....

I'm definitely seeing panic locally and at the online ammo sites I frequent.

Like Tam has said, we have our hats.

Sent from my XT830C using Tapatalk

[45dotACP]

I've got some ammo and components stashed this time...not super worried. But if this drought lasts as long as the 2012 drought I might end up running a little low...

Sent from my VS876 using Tapatalk

[RJ]

I have a spare $200. Do I

1. Buy a case of training ammo? Or
2. Get a CCW holster for the VP9 and spend the balance on ammo? Or
3. Keep saving for a Givens class?

[SeriousStudent]

I have a spare $200. Do I

1. Buy a case of training ammo? Or
2. Get a CCW holster for the VP9 and spend the balance on ammo? Or
3. Keep saving for a Givens class?

Option three. Better training will make you a more skilled shooter, leading to a better return on the ammo expenditures.

[HCM]

I have a spare $200. Do I

1. Buy a case of training ammo? Or
2. Get a CCW holster for the VP9 and spend the balance on ammo? Or
3. Keep saving for a Givens class?

Do you have enough ammo on hand for a Givens Class ?

[23JAZ]

I have a spare $200. Do I

1. Buy a case of training ammo? Or
2. Get a CCW holster for the VP9 and spend the balance on ammo? Or
3. Keep saving for a Givens class?
Ammo, then start saving for the class again. There won't be a shortage of classes, can't say the same for ammo.

[scw2]

Ammo, then start saving for the class again. There won't be a shortage of classes, can't say the same for ammo.

Yep, what Jay said. Holsters will be there too. You may just have to wait a while for em to ship!

[Josh Runkle]

I'm prepared this time, and have no "panic buying" to do.

[ldunnmobile]

I'm prepared this time, and have no "panic buying" to do.

Great feeling isn't it.

[Josh Runkle]

Great feeling isn't it.

Well, I sort of lied. I do want a moat and some field artillery, and I guess I don't have either of those yet.

[Beat Trash]

If you are comfortable with your Walther PPS as your primary carry gun, then get ammo. If you, like many, feel that a higher capacity gun would better serve as a primary carry, then go with option 2 and get a holster and spend the balance on ammo.

[CCT125US]

Well, I sort of lied. I do want a moat and some field artillery, and I guess I don't have either of those yet.

I'll meet you halfway. I have the heavy equipment to make the moat happen. Sounds like arty's on you.

[Josh Runkle]

I'll meet you halfway. I have the heavy equipment to make the moat happen. Sounds like arty's on you.

Haha. Awesome. Well, I could probably buy an extremely expensive transferable Destructive Device, but I'm not sure that I could ever afford the ammo.

[Josh Runkle]

I'll meet you halfway. I have the heavy equipment to make the moat happen. Sounds like arty's on you.

How do you suggest I explain this to the loan officer at the bank?

[warpedcamshaft]

I have a spare $200. Do I

1. Buy a case of training ammo? Or
2. Get a CCW holster for the VP9 and spend the balance on ammo? Or
3. Keep saving for a Givens class?

Can you shoot an expert score on the Hackathorn standards?

[Frank R]

If you're like me and have no faith in the Republican party winning, I strongly suggest stocking up on the below now. We are living in the AR salad days and you'd be silly not to have a $50 (or less!) stripped lower or five in the safe.

Stripped AR lowers (http://quanticotactical.com/asp/itemDetail.asp?dispItemNum=2997&type=M&CMN=Anderson%20Manufacturing&CMNum=175&CMSNum=703&CMSN=Stripped%20Lowers)

Ammo (.22 LR can be found online and everything else is in stock online and locally)

Reloading supplies if you reload (I know this stuff is still in short supply)

Mags. Mags. Mags for everything. Mags.

Thank God I'm not like you and do have faith in the Republican party's chance of winning.

[RJ]

Do you have enough ammo on hand for a Givens Class ?

2,000 rounds? (I know; in Texas, that's barely enough to take the trash out. :cool: )

Since I have a decent carry gun and ammo to take a class, sounds like C (saving for a class with Mr. Givens) is the way to go.

[LittleLebowski]

Thank God I'm not like you and do have faith in the Republican party's chance of winning.

Chance favors the prepared.

[Robinson]

Okay here is something I could use some advice on. I would be able to answer this question myself if it were about my pistols, but I'm still learning about AR pattern rifles.

What parts should I purchase for my AR to have on hand in case at some point they become hard to obtain due to legislation? In other words, if I need to keep my gun running well into the future in the absence of new parts availability what should I stock up on now (other than ammunition) ? A second barrel? Springs? Firing pin? An entire bolt carrier group? A spare suppressor? All the above?

And mods, feel free to move this question to the long gun section if appropriate.

[NickA]

How do you suggest I explain this to the loan officer at the bank?
"circular crocodile preserve with island and decorative drawbridge"