Thoughts on SureFire Rapid Transition Sights

[seabiscuit]

http://www.surefire.com/surefire/content/images_inv/h/p/25497/RTS_Barry_large4.jpg

These seem like a good idea if you're running a magnified optic. I'm pretty comfortable with canting a rifle; did it all the time in NRA smallbore. Of course, that wasn't a 45 degree cant, and it wasn't a 5.56...

Any thoughts on these?

[joshs]

I had them on my rifle when I was using a 1-4. I found them very easy to use, but, on my rifle, brass would skip off the brim of my hat and hit me in the forehead, which was very annoying. I recently switched back to an Aimpoint, so I also switched back to traditional BUIS. I think they are the best solution for back ups while running a magnified optic.

This video of Keith Garcia is a good example of how fast the RTS are.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovC2G8Z9J5M

[seabiscuit]

I'm looking at setting up an AR for home defense use, and to take to some classes to train with a weapon similar to my issued M4. Would you (or anyone else) recommend a magnified optic for those uses, and if not, would a lower 1/3 co-witness be the best BUIS for a 1X red dot?

[LittleLebowski]

I'm looking at setting up an AR for home defense use, and to take to some classes to train with a weapon similar to my issued M4. Would you (or anyone else) recommend a magnified optic for those uses, and if not, would a lower 1/3 co-witness be the best BUIS for a 1X red dot?

I wouldn't use a magnified optic and I would use a lower 1/3. Aimpoint H1/T1 or Pro. If you have kids in the house, you'll have to do some serious thinking on having a easy to access carbine for HD.

[seabiscuit]

Yep, I was looking at the PRO. And I'd probably use something like Sentry Safe's Home Defense Center or just put it on a high rack in a closet, chamber empty, safety on.

[LittleLebowski]

My own conclusion as a family man with a toddler is Glock in safe, Condition One. Belgian Malinois indoors, Condition One.

Any dog that alerts will do. I just like Belgian Mals and German Shepherds and know how to handle them.

[ToddG]

Belgian Malinois indoors, Condition One.

I'm pretty sure our Mal is in Condition Zero at night...

[Jay Cunningham]

I can also see this as an option for those using a hard-fixed mount like the DD mount for the T-1 Micro.

[Prdator]

As for the off set sights, Jim Smith had a set on one of his carbines in the class at OKC, it looked really slick to me as he was running magnified optics.

For a HD carbine I would not use a Magnified optic! Aimpoint or Luepold delta point would be my choice, and I'd have a rail mounted light on top in front of my folded Down BUIS. If the dot did not come on and I had to shoot I would use the tube of the optic as a sight and get it done. I was first shown that by Criss Costa and it worked easily out to 100yds.
On another point though have you tried to clear your house with a carbine?? I think in the home Shotgun is KING but in my house I can't clear it "right" with a shotgun ( to long) so Ive gone back to the Glock with a light.

And a Labrador in condition of wanting to be petted or fed......

[Jay Cunningham]

I personally feel that a real potential exists for a "low-probablitity shot" (i.e. hostage scenario/head shot on a threat) in an HD situation; as such, I don't have a lot of love for scatterguns or using 30mm tubes as ghost rings if it can be avoided.

[seabiscuit]

I personally feel that a real potential exists for a "low-probablitity shot" (i.e. hostage scenario/head shot on a threat) in an HD situation; as such, I don't have a lot of love for scatterguns or using 30mm tubes as ghost rings if it can be avoided.

This is turning into a "best HD firearm" thread, but...

If I go carbine, I'd like to go suppressed and/or SBR. However, being in the military, I'm afraid I'd move to state where one or both of those are not an option. (I'm thinking DDM4, fixed BUIS, lower 1/3 co-witness with Aimpoint PRO at this point.)

If I go shotgun, I'd go 870 with a SureFire forward grip. Maybe 20 gauge so my wife could shoot it. Ghost ring sights? Slugs/buckshot?

If I go pistol, I'd go Glock 19 with SureFire X300 or Glock GTL.

Thoughts?

ETA: Eventually, I'll probably wind up with all three.

[LittleLebowski]

I would keep it simple and have the G19 with light.

[Jay Cunningham]

This is turning into a "best HD firearm" thread, but...

I thought it was a BUIS and how/why you have them on your gun thread... but in post #3 you yourself did steer it in that direction so I guess I'm confused. It's your thread, so which is it then?

[seabiscuit]

Yeah I did steer it that way. Now that my questions about the RTS are answered, I'm seeking advice on a good HD firearm. Should I start a new thread/rename this one?

[Odin Bravo One]

Addressing solely the issue of the sights......

They work pretty well for their intended use. Learing to use them quickly and effeciently takes a little practice, but not too much. Though, when running a magnified optic, I still prefer to use a solid design/built quick-detach mount, with top mounted BUIS, specifically Troy Ind. When I want an up close sighting system, I have found an AimPoint T-1 in an offset mount to solve that issue much better than iron sights.

[BWT]

My own conclusion as a family man with a toddler is Glock in safe, Condition One. Belgian Malinois indoors, Condition One.

Any dog that alerts will do. I just like Belgian Mals and German Shepherds and know how to handle them.

I might just keep the gun somewhere up high (like the top shelf of a book shelf, etc), in your room at night, and then during the day, either put on your EDC Gun or lock it in the safe.

At night, they'll be in their rooms, during the day, you could just put it up.

Disclaimer, I have no kids, and you also have a wife to live with, so... That argument may have a factor in it as well.

ETA: I'm also not maried.

ETA 2: I bought my first RDS about a couple of weeks back, I'd say without a doubt, the simplicity of the system, the adjustable of brightness, a red dot coupled with a flash light, would be the easiest system to work with in a house.

I'm thinking an AR SBR, with a good light, and an Aimpoint or EoTech (I like the Aimpoints for the battery life, and simplicity), I'd go with that.

I'm eyeing a PRO after the M&P.

[P30shtr]

"They" also have the 45 degree mini red dot mounts for like a Burris fast fire or Triji RMR. I would think that would be even better, faster than 45 degree irons. I forget who "they" are, I'll look. Alot of the 3-gun guys are using them these days for transitioning from far to near targets. I was thinking of a mount to a flat top receiver, not right to the scope itself but this is a kinda similar idea and could work as well.

http://www.gggaz.com/b-comp-30mm-ring.html

[1986s4]

Those sights look interesting, but I would need to try before I buy. Right now my Colt has a Trijicon reflex sighted for up close and personal. That, and my HK P30.

Our mutt is in condition 3, stuck in a Serpa holster.....

[agent-smith]

I might get a set of these to try-out, but I really think the only real use case for these is for 3-gun where someone wants a solution for close-in targets but doesn't want to be forced to Unlimited/Open division by running a T1 or other "microdot" optic in addition to a primary magnified optic. For a "self-defense" type situation, if I was worried enough to need a faster solution for close-in targets I couldn't imagine not going with a T1/microdot.

FWIW, I have a T1 in a Larue LT-724 (http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=489) in addition to an ACOG TA11 and I really can't think of a better solution.

Never been LEO or .mil and never been shot-at so I'm not speaking from any kind of "experience" but the T1 kills steel plates deader-than-sh*t easily at 200yds (which is as far as I've used it). When a friend described the optic/mount it sounded really wonky but once I tried it in the Larue mount I was hooked.

[joshs]

One of the things I like about the RTS is that if your primary optic becomes unusable due to fog or going prone in a big mud puddle, an offset red dot would likely be unusable as well. In these situations, you could still transition to the RTS. That being said, if I shot in open division instead of tac-ops, I would likely have an offset T1 instead of the RTS.

[agent-smith]

One of the things I like about the RTS is that if your primary optic becomes unusable due to fog or going prone in a big mud puddle, an offset red dot would likely be unusable as well.

That's a good point. If you're an animal, you run a T1 offset to one side and the RTS offset on the other.

[joshs]

That's a good point. If you're an animal, you run a T1 offset to one side and the RTS offset on the other.

I know this was said in jest, but for those that haven't tried it, transitioning to an "inboard" (left side of gun for a righty/right side of gun for lefty) offset sighting system is very awkward. So, if you think that the abilitiy to use your back up sighting system from your "other strong shoulder" ;) is important, offset sights probably aren't for you.

[David Armstrong]

Personally as an old shotgun instructor and one who had a lot of training and experience with the AR platform, I have settled on an M1 Carbine as my preferred HD weapon, and last night when forced to leave my defensive position and go on the offense against a rampaging armadillo I grabbed my bead-sighted Scattergun Tech 870 12 gauge<G>!
Having gotten that out of the way, running an AR I would prefer the BUIS coregistered with the optics and little to no magnification.

[Odin Bravo One]

One of the things I like about the RTS is that if your primary optic becomes unusable due to fog or going prone in a big mud puddle, an offset red dot would likely be unusable as well. In these situations, you could still transition to the RTS. That being said, if I shot in open division instead of tac-ops, I would likely have an offset T1 instead of the RTS.

Another way to avoid this is to get your rifle out of the puddle before shooting. A little water will have no effect on quality optics. Of course, I am not looking at this at all from a competition stand point, so take it for what it is. Just one man's opinion.

[joshs]

Another way to avoid this is to get your rifle out of the puddle before shooting. A little water will have no effect on quality optics. Of course, I am not looking at this at all from a competition stand point, so take it for what it is. Just one man's opinion.

If the division I shoot in multigun wasn't limited to a single optic, I would use the offset dot with folding BUIS. I've only ever had a problem with mud when shooting a big multi chamber muzzle brake, which is another reason why this may only be a problem for a competition rifle.

[Odin Bravo One]

Yeah, I have no idea about those sorts of rules. Makes sense to have offset irons then if using a magnified optic and you play by rules like that.

[P30shtr]

Anyone willing to contribute to the "Get Benny a T1 Fund" can PM me please, donations are greatly appreciated :p Seems everyone has one but me. Maybe I'll find 600 bucks in the dryer tomorrow.