The military SOF needs more diversity

[LittleLebowski]

The military is the most color blind institution in America, bar none. This guy wants to change that.

http://www.militarytimes.com/story/news/nation/2015/08/05/diversity-seals-green-berets/31122851/


Many of the Pentagon's elite commando units — including the Navy SEALs — are overwhelmingly led and manned by white officers and enlisted troops, a concern at the highest levels of the military where officials have stressed the need to create more diverse forces to handle future threats.

Black officers and enlisted troops are scarce in some special operations units in highest demand, according to data provided by the Pentagon to USA TODAY. For instance, eight of 753 SEAL officers are black, or 1%.

An expert at the Pentagon on the diversity of commando forces said the lack of minorities robs the military of skills it needs to win.

[Jeep]

This is all idiotic. The truth is that most foreigners don't care what race Americans are, and having more official "minorities" is unlikely to help much of anything. By contrast, language skills can be extremely useful.

Moreover, this is primarily an issue of self-selection. In the Army, minorities--and particularly blacks--are far less likely to choose any of the combat arms, and tend to prefer the service support units. That apparently is even more true for officers. In the Army, at least, special operations officers and NCO's overwhelmingly come from combat arms units.

The only other factor of which I am aware is swimming ability. Lots of blacks cannot swim, and some swimming ability is usually required for most special operations courses.

We lost some black candidates in my Ranger School class because they couldn't pass the (pretty minimal) swim test. But the black guys who did graduate were all guys you would be happy to have in your unit. Which is the way it is supposed to be.

[LittleLebowski]

One of my instructors for MCIWS (http://www.businessinsider.com/marine-combat-water-survival-course-2013-5?op=1) was black. He was afforded the opportunity and made it through one of the hardest schools in the Marine Corps. The opportunity is there for all.

[Trooper224]

The opportunity may be there, but apparently the politicians want the military to become our country's chief participation medal squad.

[Jeep]

The opportunity may be there, but apparently the politicians want the military to become our country's chief participation medal squad.

Of course. Because it makes the politicians (and the O6's and others who suck up to them) feel good about themselves. They can then award each other "courage" awards for the great things they have done in the name of diversity.

And if kids later die because of it, well that's too bad, but the kids are likely to have been from flyover country, and thus didn't matter, anyway.

[JHC]

And yet native American's have historically been over represented in SOF. Nothin's got nothing to do with nothin but volunteer, qualify, then make the standard.

To a lesser extent the imbalance exists in Army Infantry MOS also; as I recall the last analysis I saw of it.

[breakingtime91]

And yet native American's have historically been over represented in SOF. Nothin's got nothing to do with nothin but volunteer, qualify, then make the standard.

To a lesser extent the imbalance exists in Army Infantry MOS also; as I recall the last analysis I saw of it.

ya, not sure why but it seems like white guys fill infantry jobs.

[JHC]

ya, not sure why but it seems like white guys fill infantry jobs.

I think it's a function of who grows up culturally predisposed to be an American apex predator. Field Artillery for whatever reason on the other hand has a higher percentage of black Soldiers. It's all OK. It's all good. It's a volunteer force and in the Army's case you come in the door with a MOS on contract for what YOU picked and could qualify for.

[JodyH]

An expert at the Pentagon on the diversity of commando forces said the lack of minorities robs the military of skills it needs to win.
I'm confused now... I thought all races were exactly the same except for melanin content?
:confused:

[JHC]

The narrowest slice of the narrow slice of SOF might benefit from certain ethnicities for clandestine work. That's about it I would think.

[Jeep]

The narrowest slice of the narrow slice of SOF might benefit from certain ethnicities for clandestine work. That's about it I would think.

Yes, but that would usually mean South or East Asian or Arab, which isn't the kind of diversity that the diversity mongers have in mind. All they care about is black/white (and occasionally Hispanic). Despite what they say, real diversity isn't their goal. Instead, this is a cudgel to beat on an institution that regard as being insufficiently "progressive."

[TCinVA]

The fact that there are "diversity experts" in the Pentagon's employ is ample sign that the place needs to be fumigated.

http://i.imgur.com/dmy1v.gif

There is no more bullshit job on the planet. It is a silly religion and taxpayer money has no business employing its priests unless they're properly understood as chaplains and limited to that role.

[imp1295]

Interestingly enough,
There are a larger than normal population of native-Francophone Africans in our Africa AOR oriented CA battalionS, more Hispanics in our SOUTHCOM BattalionS and more Asians in our PACOM Battalions. Go figure...

[BehindBlueI's]

Wait, race is a skill now?

[Drang]

ya, not sure why but it seems like white guys fill infantry jobs.

"Ethnics" enlist for job skills, honkeys for adventure. Infantry and armor are full of college boys, including grads, who are tired of classrooms, and want to go out and do something before getting tied down to a desk job for the rest of their life. Lots of them get talked into other MOSs. MI was full of guys who were happiest in a divisional MI battalion, unless they managed an assignment to Group. (And then they resented the fact that MI branch wouldn't release them for the Q Course.)

[okie john]

This is all idiotic. The truth is that most foreigners don't care what race Americans are, and having more official "minorities" is unlikely to help much of anything. By contrast, language skills can be extremely useful.

Moreover, this is primarily an issue of self-selection. In the Army, minorities--and particularly blacks--are far less likely to choose any of the combat arms, and tend to prefer the service support units. That apparently is even more true for officers. In the Army, at least, special operations officers and NCO's overwhelmingly come from combat arms units.

The only other factor of which I am aware is swimming ability. Lots of blacks cannot swim, and some swimming ability is usually required for most special operations courses.

We lost some black candidates in my Ranger School class because they couldn't pass the (pretty minimal) swim test. But the black guys who did graduate were all guys you would be happy to have in your unit. Which is the way it is supposed to be.

This.

It was the same in the two active-duty SF battalions where I served. We didn't have a lot of black guys of any rank, but the ones we had were rock solid. Of course 7th SFG(A) had a boatload of Hispanics, and most of them were really solid.

If you finished the Q Course, your skin color was the last thing that mattered. That said, before you could go to the Q Course, you had to volunteer to serve in a Combat Arms MOS, volunteer for Jump School, then volunteer for the Q Course. That weeds out a lot of non-hackers right off the bat.

On the other hand, the ranks of people who held a support MOS tended to be pretty diverse. But those guys didn't volunteer for those slots, and they didn't have to pass the Combat Water Survival Test to keep them...

Most foreigners hate Americans no matter what color our skin is, and having a few more troops of color in the ranks won't change that.


Okie John

[SAWBONES]

"Mandatory diversity" is always bullshit.
Choose the person best for the job, regardless of race, creed or color.
Duh.

[Odin Bravo One]

ya, not sure why but it seems like white guys fill infantry jobs.

It's not a "seems" situation. The five sided building has stats on that shit too, but that info won't get released because it doesn't fit the agenda. Fact is that an overwhelming majority of the combat arms jobs are filled by Whitey.

Another inconvienient fact is that Whitey also accounts for the greatest percentage of casualties.


The narrowest slice of the narrow slice of SOF might benefit from certain ethnicities for clandestine work. That's about it I would think.

To the point of being completely irrelevant.


The fact that there are "diversity experts" in the Pentagon's employ is ample sign that the place needs to be fumigated.

Fact.


Wait, race is a skill now?

Yes. As is gender.

Note the opinion paper cited in the article is written by an Army Colonel, who is also quoted a few times in the article for his arguments for the need to diversify. Meaning, as a budding politician, he recognizes this is his ticket for a ride to the executive suite, and homeboy has got stars in his eyes.

It does not matter to those pushing the social experiment that most SOF programs wash 70-80% of qualified candidates, and the programs themselves are designed to not care about where you grew up, what color your skin is, or if your feelings are going to be hurt when you fail. All of this is of no concern to those interested in forcing "diversity".

They want Nancy to join the Infantry. They want to change the color of the skin of SOF. Sooner or later, Nancy will be an Infantry Company Commander. And our SOF units will have every color of the rainbow, proportionally represented like a box of Fruit Loops. And the next time our military has to actually fight.....not nation build, not VSO, not SSE, not Advise and Assist........but actually fight, and fight hard, they will be as successful as the policies implemented in the name of social & cultural equality.

[ranger]

Well said, Sean M.

[SLG]

I have nothing useful to add here.

[fixer]

Equal opportunity does not equate to equal outcomes.

[Jeep]

Equal opportunity does not equate to equal outcomes.

Nonsense. I had an Army equal opportunity officer explain to me and a roomful of other officers and NCO's that the one true measure of equal opportunity was equal outcomes, and that if the outcomes weren't equal then the opportunity, by definition, had not been equal.

And far be it from me to disagree with they nice young 2LT who instructed us on that. She, after all, had received weeks of instruction on the subject so she could in turn teach us, and this is what all her instruction materials said.

[GardoneVT]

This is just my letter slot view , but black guys who join the military typically do so to avoid violence.

Ironic?
I'll explain: due to various political machines and self destructive social programs, most black men grow up in single parent households in violent liberal cesspits.

While infantry service is nothing like the kind of bullshit violence of inner city feuds , most black folks are beyond sick of the notion of directly killing people by the time they set foot in the recruitment office. The other motivator is building an honorable career to support a family, either in service or out of it. The military is one of the last ways a minority born with no money, no or little family and a good work ethic can work hard and earn an honest life.

Whereas its my observation in the flight I was in a lot of white guys already had a functional career and maybe even a family already, but were seeking greater purpose to their lives then selling cars or shoveling coal back at the 'holler . Joining a 'black ops' unit holds a greater appeal to that kind of guy then the minority member fighting to get a foundation in life.

[Jeep]

This is just my letter slot view , but black guys who join the military typically do so to avoid violence.

Ironic?
I'll explain: due to various political machines and self destructive social programs, most black men grow up in single parent households in violent liberal cesspits.

While infantry service is nothing like the kind of bullshit violence of inner city feuds , most black folks are beyond sick of the notion of directly killing people by the time they set foot in the recruitment office. The other motivator is building an honorable career to support a family, either in service or out of it. The military is one of the last ways a minority born with no money, no or little family and a good work ethic can work hard and earn an honest life.

Whereas its my observation in the flight I was in a lot of white guys already had a functional career and maybe even a family already, but were seeking greater purpose to their lives then selling cars or shoveling coal back at the 'holler . Joining a 'black ops' unit holds a greater appeal to that kind of guy then the minority member fighting to get a foundation in life.

Well said and I think spot on.

[Al T.]

IMHO, a lot of the minority folks are looking for a career, either in the military or by gaining skills. Lots of combat arms types join for adventure.

[Default.mp3]

Here is the original DoD paper in question: http://nsfp.web.unc.edu/files/2012/09/FINAL-VERSION-AY14-CRP-COL-MIKE-COPENHAVER.pdf

Note that the author of the paper explicitly states:

While it is apparent that the Navy has identified a cultural shortfall within this elite community of Special Operators, it is critical to ensure recruiting is targeted in order to meet required operational needs as opposedto just that getting numbers! This is a mistake that has been repeated across DoD. The mindset of making our Special Operations Force resemble that of the United States and those we defend will only perpetuate the problem as we move into the future.Figure 3 above is an anecdotal indicator that minority representation within the SEAL community is low. The challenge that the Navy and Special Operations face is how to approach the problem. If the Navy's approach is to diversify the force is to make it look like the nation it represents, it will only see itself chasing numbers and fail to look at the problem from an operational capability viewpoint.
So, despite the cynicism about the original intent of the COL, it would appear to be that his concerns were mostly from an operational perspective, as white will clearly have more issues blending in with the population in various AOs, and having more minorities within the SOF community could help alleviate that issue. How valid his concerns are, I don't know, but they would appear to not be whole rooted in the whole "equality of outcome" ideals that some champion. After all, he clearly notes that diversification without thought can have detrimental effects:

Therefore, in order to determine the optimal balance of diversity across an organization, whether military or civilian, is not an exact calculus. Many studies across the U.S. have been completed and for every success, there is at least one example of a failed diversity plan.Regardless, the success of becoming a more cultural diverse organization will not come without challenges as well as consequences. While this paper has focused on the opportunities within SOF of added cultural capability, challenges can and will arise throughout the transition. Miscommunication and separatism are common among organizations with highly diverse populations. While language along with various cultural backgrounds can improve capability, those same attributes have the propensity to create friction and cause challenges. To make workforce diversity a successful endeavor, military leaders or organizational managers must focus on the management of the diversity as opposed to just trying to become a diverse force or organization. A civilian case study was completed by the International Review of Administrative Sciences entitled "Racial diversity, is it a blessing to an organization? Examining its organizational consequences in municipal police departments."12 The study's conclusion from research on more than 450 police departments from cities with more than 50,000 residents, is that there was a decrease in crime control performance and an increase in employee turnover as a result of increased diversification.

[eb07]

Now we must give positions to people who did not earn them based upon skin color. Wonderful.