Front sight - when to use top edge focus?

[scw2]

My question is what part of the front sight should one focus on when shooting, and does that change depending based on factors such as required speed/accuracy? The reason I had this thought was I saw a few posts about focusing on the top edge of the front sight, most recently in Breakingtime's journal today. I also dug up an older post where he was discussing with Mr White about the FAST drill and what he was focusing on, during which the following was said:


still using a fiber front, but aiming on this shooting problem was all about the top edges and light bars for me.

So far I've been focusing on the front dot, but I think the one time I tried firing faster what I picked up on when my alignment was getting worse was that the top edges weren't level, not that the dots weren't level. At faster speed and closer distances, is it better to focus on the top edge of the front sight, line it up with the tops of the rear sights, and make sure there are equal bars of light between the sights? Should the focus on your front sight change if you're taking slower shots, shots that demand higher accuracy, or shots at greater distances? Also, does the focus change if the sights are aligned differently (eg I think my CZ is supposed to be a combat sight picture with the dot on top of the POI, but I know other pistol sights are calibrated so that the top of the blade = POI)

[GJM]

According to Robbie Leatham, there are three variables you are juggling, and they are:

1) Stop

2) Aim

3) Jerk the trigger

How much you need to stop depends on the target.

How much (and how) you aim depends on the target.

How fast you jerk the trigger depends on the target.

Each person needs to figure out how much to stop, how much to aim, and how fast to jerk. This will vary on difficulty of shot, ability of the shooter, the importance of making the shot and penalties for not, and the firearm you are using. Using "Stop, Aim, Jerk the trigger" provides a simple way of directing your shooting speed, and diagnosing when you are having problems.

[scw2]

Thanks, that's a good framework to view, assess and correct any shooting I do. I guess my initial question is more about #2 - aiming. Is the top edge focus then more practical for faster shooting where you can get hits that are good enough, versus perhaps getting a higher accuracy without regard to speed?

[GJM]

Thanks, that's a good framework to view, assess and correct any shooting I do. I guess my initial question is more about #2 - aiming. Is the top edge focus then more practical for faster shooting where you can get hits that are good enough, versus perhaps getting a higher accuracy without regard to speed?

I am still in the learning stage, but I think the answer is you need enough sight to make the shot. That could go the whole continuum from point shooting, using the slide, just the dot, the top edge, to the top edge perfectly centered in the rear notch (and combinations of target vs hard sight focus). Of course that is just the aim part, then you need to be able to press the trigger without disturbing that sight alignment.

[breakingtime91]

George that is some really good information, thank you. I had the issue that my eyes, when given the opportunity, would focus on different things. This wasn't a big issue when shooting up close and not fast but became an issue at speed and distance. While some people shoot really well with a "drive the dot" (Todd G), I am not one of them. I can shoot alright but when I am forced to shoot with one focus (top of the front) I do better and shoot more consistently. I think it is also important you learn when your sight picture is good enough for the target your engaging (exactly what george said.)

[CCT125US]

I have always used the top edge. It is my default sight picture when shooting an unfamiliar gun as well. Now depending on shot difficulty, my focus may go from crystal clear, to a vague awareness of the edge. For me and my vision, when I focus on the dot (drive the dot) I tend to lose the target if it is small.

[SLG]

Given how different everyone's vision is from everyone else, none of this should be taken as absolute. See speed, resolution, etc... all matter.

USUALLY, a top front sight focus is for the most accurate shots you need to take. USUALLY, there is more time to take them, which is good, because for MOST people, it takes longer for their eyes to find and focus on that very small part of the front sight.

All other kinds of shots are see what you need to see (as is the most accurate shot, described above) and you will need to figure out the time needed to stop the gun, the time needed to see the sight picture that you need to see for that shot, and the time to press the trigger. Stop, aim, jerk.

[rwa]

The more difficult the shot, the more refined the sight alignment. I don't want to get into semantics, but I don't recall Rob Leatham advocating "jerking" the trigger. Yeah, he is a trigger slapper, same speed in, same speed out, straight back, straight forward.

[GJM]

The more difficult the shot, the more refined the sight alignment. I don't want to get into semantics, but I don't recall Rob Leatham advocating "jerking" the trigger. Yeah, he is a trigger slapper, same speed in, same speed out, straight back, straight forward.

Having trained with Robbie four days in the last 8 months, I can absolutely say, that in 2014/2015 he specifically says "jerk the trigger." Standard Robbie question, "how do you shoot faster?" Standard Robbie answer, "jerk the trigger faster."

[GAP]

I wonder if the reasons mentioned above are why I prefer smaller sights like the original three dot Ameriglo night sights over the much larger Trijicon HDs? Even though the notch in the back is larger, I find myself having more accurate shots even at speed with the much smaller Ameriglos. When I press out and shoot as long as those three dots are close they are tight enough for me to be accurate. I didn't find the same for the HDs with the large rear notch. I do have great vision (20/15) currently so that may also play a factor..

[SLG]

I haven't talked to Rob specifically about the jerk since 2006, which was when he explained it to me.

[GJM]

I wonder if the reasons mentioned above are why I prefer smaller sights like the original three dot Ameriglo night sights over the much larger Trijicon HDs? Even though the notch in the back is larger, I find myself having more accurate shots even at speed with the much smaller Ameriglos. When I press out and shoot as long as those three dots are close they are tight enough for me to be accurate. I didn't find the same for the HDs with the large rear notch. I do have great vision (20/15) currently so that may also play a factor..

There is only .25 difference front to rear notch in the HD sights for the 17, what is the difference with the Ameriglo model you have?



https://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=GL101O


Sent from my iPad

[GAP]

There is only .25 difference front to rear notch in the HD sights for the 17, what is the difference with the Ameriglo model you have?



https://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=GL101O


Sent from my iPad

Rear notch is 0.150" front blade is 0.140"... Plain Jane Ameriglo Classic Night Sights, I tried other "cooler" ones but I went back to these. I know, wider rear notch should be faster but as I mentioned the space is so small that I just line them up relatively close and I'm on because of the small differential. Shooting FAST at 6 seconds and Wilson 5x5 around 22 seconds currently using a Glock 19. I just purchased my first timer a few weeks ago so while not ground breaking, I'm happy with the progress.

[Dagga Boy]

I think some of this is vision and brain centric. I cut my teeth on dot sights. I have trained myself from the very beginning to drive the dot. Even my first duty revolver had a tritium dot. I don't know if it is repetition or how my eyes work, but I like circles, I like U notches with a dot in them, it is what I have made work for me. Yet....I have always struggled with very precise accuracy.

Then there is my business and shooting partner. He works the top edge and is capable of some amazing feats of accurate shooting (helps that he presses a trigger exceptionally well also). I remember him shooting one of my pistols and noted a burr on the edge of the front sight that annoyed him......which I never noticed. Again different concentration and he has been shooting far longer than me and probably used to a edge focused sight picture. At this point in my vision adventure,mi am lucky I can see a dot.

[TiroFijo]

As posted above, the degree of focus depends on the difficulty of the shot, and the time available.

I used to shoot IPSC, but also more accuracy oriented disciplines, and that's why I love a well defined sight picture (black on black, perhaps a dot or illum dot up front) and it really annoys me when the front sight is slightly damaged/deformed/rounded/burred.