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ASH556
07-28-2015, 02:25 PM
Sorry for the potentially depressing thread, but I'd appreciate some perspective from like minded individuals. I'm struggling lately (last 2-3 years) with a concept across multiple areas of my life, but the concept is the same.

Concept: Better than average at something, but not good enough to be "pro" at it, and unwilling/unable to put in enough time to get to that level. Having achieved best possible results, then tempted to quit.

The current example for me is 3gun. About 10 months ago some buddies invited me to the local "outlaw" 3gun match. This one is set up "tactical" style with pre-established round counts, no makeup shots, and heavy penalties for misses. Well, this works well for me because it jives with my "tactical" training background. Having taken first place multiple times now, I decided to try my hand at the larger "3GN Nation" style match held in Atlanta. 31/100 is my best finish so far at that match. There are a couple factors working against me at that match:
1) Real, actual Pro sponsored shooters compete at that match. Rob Romero, James Casanova, and Erik Lund were at the last one (may have been other pros I don't recognize as well.
2) Match focuses less on accuracy and more on speed, and much more heavily on shotgun than pistol or rifle. At the last match I shot 108 rounds of 12ga, 80 rounds of pistol, and 20 rounds of rifle. Part of this is because it's all bay style with no long range shots, so rifle is just not used very much unless specified.

In order to improve at that match it is my impression that I'll have to spend a whole lot of time in my garage practicing loading my shotgun. Even then, I'd have to devote way more time and funds to practicing shooting to the exclusion of time/money spent with my family (wife, 2yr son, 7mo son).

Meanwhile I've got a dedicated 3gun rifle, 3gun shotgun, belt, shell caddies, etc, etc. If I'm not going to get better at it or win, then I may as well sell off all the gear and not even shoot another match. Spend the time/money on something more productive.

Am I being too black & white about this? Should I just keep doing it and improving little by little? Shooting the bigger match is more time (12 hrs on a match day) away from home, more gas spent driving, more ammo used/rounds fired, higher entry fee, and more costly gear. By contrast, the local outlaw "tactical" match is 15 minutes away, 3-4 hrs max, entry fee is less than 1/2, and uses less ammo while still practicing dynamic shooting (on the move, multiple targets, reloads, etc).

Where is the line between pushing yourself and beating your head against the wall?

orionz06
07-28-2015, 02:32 PM
Where is the line between pushing yourself and beating your head against the wall?

Enjoyment and value. If you lose but will have an awesome time who cares? There are lots of things I do that I am terrible at but have a blast being terrible. It's the trip not the destination.

Chuck Haggard
07-28-2015, 02:34 PM
Welcome to my world.

I went with "improves my overall firearms training plan for the real world while still having fun at doing so". One has a hard time winning USPSA matches when shooting a S&W 5906, but that didn't mean I didn't have fun, and was getting quality time in with my gear.

In 3gun the shotgun stuff is the worst stuff I see ref "gamer vs street" TTPs and gear, so you either get deep into the gamer part, or have fun with doing what you do.

Peally
07-28-2015, 02:37 PM
My personal thinking is I'll never beat Stoeger or Vogel, but I don't care if I do. I compete to get better at shooting; it gives me skill benchmarks, drives me to be better every time I make a minute error, and I enjoy the high from beating the snot out of people I perceive as great shooters.

Everyone has a goal, and for me it's not to win nationals but to make M/GM (it was A, but since I made A class and am still/forever unimpressed with my shooting skills I had to raise the bar :D ). If your goal is to beat those crazy fast guys the only way that's going to happen is an intense drive and dedicated practice. Only thing that works for me is I'm easily angered by what I see as garbage shooting, despite my club match rankings.

All that being said, you need to keep your goals realistic. If you've got a family and spending your only days off with them is more important than beating some random fast guy at a shoot, that's not a bad thing. No reason to sell everything off if you're having fun shooting though.

As far as getting physically old affecting me, as long as I see crusty old farts like Miculek nuking the competition at matches and dancing on the ashes with trophies I'm not too worried about it.

ETA: Sorry if all this is disjointed, it's just random thoughts I'm spewing

HCM
07-28-2015, 02:37 PM
Is it fun?

Are you shooting this for fun and the challenge or are you looking to go pro and get on the circuit?

I train with firearms as part of what I do for a living but I also like to shoot for fun. I guess everyone is different but I find in both areas shooting with better/higher-level shooters is encouraging and motivating.

Mr_White
07-28-2015, 02:38 PM
Great topic, but a very subjective one. So no one is going to figure out your answer but you.

I think it really comes down to whether you find the whole business enjoyable enough to want to continue doing it. People get joy from all kinds of different parts of this activity - messing with the guns, the gear, improving their hardware, simply having the fun of participating and socializing, 'doing well' whatever that is to someone, winning outright, getting more confidence if they have to do it for real, seeing self-improvement realized, etc.

I relate to what you are talking about. There have been a number of activities across my whole life that I have 'gotten good at' - that is a big part of the enjoyment for me, seeing myself improve, and then gotten bored of and quit after the steep part of the learning curve is over and it's going to be much more difficult to improve from there. Two years is as long as an intense interest in a hobby usually lasts for me. Pistol shooting has been the thing I have stuck with the longest I'd say.

joshs
07-28-2015, 02:39 PM
I've twice been at the same point with 3 gun, and I sold my shotgun and supporting equipment. Both times I ended up regretting it and buying a new shotgun and caddies. There's nothing wrong with shooting for fun, and, while my 3 gun shotgun is probably the least used gun I own, I still enjoy going to a match when I do have time.

Kyle Reese
07-28-2015, 02:40 PM
You're getting out there and becoming more proficient running a handgun, carbine and shotgun under stress, doing something that the vast majority of gun owners and shooters can't (or won't) do. There's some intrinsic value there, IMO, plus a good way to meet and network with similar minded folks.

I'd rather shoot _______ matches, knowing that I'm not likely to win instead of spending a stuffy afternoon on a golf course.

okie john
07-28-2015, 02:43 PM
It depends on what you want to get out of the experience. To win matches, remember that you shoot against the match rules, the course design, and the course designer at least as much as you shoot against the other shooters or even yourself. (When I was shooting a lot of matches, I had a favorite course designer. This guy was wickedly smart and devious. I almost made him cry a couple of times, which was infinitely more satisfying than taking 1st place in a match full of dumb/easy stages.) Beyond that, you have to keep beating your head against the wall to make your times and scores improve incrementally.

If you just want to learn to shoot better, then understand that match rules and course design could very well push you in directions other than where you want to go. If that happens, then develop your own set of standards and measure yourself against them. Take what you need from matches--which can be quite a lot--and leave the rest.


Okie John

YVK
07-28-2015, 02:57 PM
Am I being too black & white about this? Should I just keep doing it and improving little by little?

Where is the line between pushing yourself and beating your head against the wall?

Q#1: I think so.
Q#2: Yes.
Q#3: Right there where the process of improvement is no longer enjoyable.

You won't win against pros unless you become one. For those of us who aren't pros, life interferes. You are already in the upper 1/3 of what appears to be a competitive group. You're doing fine.
I also have a 3G rifle, shotgun, holsters, belt, caddies, Turk vest etc. I shot exactly one local 3G match. My next one is on October. I don't care. It is just a fun thing to do, even though I'll compete as if my life is on the line.
When it comes to hobbies, I have not gotten incrementally better in anything over the years. Got better some, but not by much. In some areas I got worse because I don't do it as much. To me living a balanced, diversified life is more important than excelling in one particular hobby, and the journey is more important than the destination. Failure to achieve is nothing but a harmless feedback.

I hope you find your enjoyment again.

P.S. A lot of similar replies above as I was typing.

farscott
07-28-2015, 03:16 PM
I shoot Bullseye and I am not competing against others. I am competing against myself and trying to better my past scores. I have fun showing tangible improvement to my scores. That, to me, makes it fun and keeps me progressing.

JHC
07-28-2015, 03:19 PM
If you are a dominant theme Competitor then it just becomes the passion you have to rule that sport. IMO if you are not wired that way, you may give it a shot cause it's fun and all but you may hit that beating your head on the wall thing.

This is off the wall but for $25 at Barnes and Noble you can find this: http://strengths.gallup.com/110440/About-StrengthsFinder-20.aspx

If you give that short on line test a shot and review the results and have a high "signature theme" of competitor, you'll probably find that passion will overcome the little stuff like dry fire shotgun loading practice for 4 hours every night. :D

Competition ranks very low on my scale per that process so spending 6-7 hours on a Sat to shoot 130 rounds on an admittedly cool set of stages is kinda . . . "meh".

Everyone I know that's evaluated themselves with that has been thunderstruck by the report they got back. Just sayin'

breakingtime91
07-28-2015, 03:20 PM
I want to compete, even though I know I wont win. I find shooting fun and being around other competent shooters make me feel more at home then happy hour at Apple Bees..

ASH556
07-28-2015, 03:40 PM
If you are a dominant theme Competitor then it just becomes the passion you have to rule that sport. IMO if you are not wired that way, you may give it a shot cause it's fun and all but you may hit that beating your head on the wall thing.

This is off the wall but for $25 at Barnes and Noble you can find this: http://strengths.gallup.com/110440/About-StrengthsFinder-20.aspx

If you give that short on line test a shot and review the results and have a high "signature theme" of competitor, you'll probably find that passion will overcome the little stuff like dry fire shotgun loading practice for 4 hours every night. :D

Competition ranks very low on my scale per that process so spending 6-7 hours on a Sat to shoot 130 rounds on an admittedly cool set of stages is kinda . . . "meh".

Everyone I know that's evaluated themselves with that has been thunderstruck by the report they got back. Just sayin'

I've actually taken that! Interesting my #1 is "Achiever." Not sure if that's the same as "competitor" or not. Here's the description they give:
"'By nature, you ordinarily take time and exert extra effort to comprehend what you are reading. You
probably refuse to rush through written material. Why? You likely intend to commit to memory as
many facts and concepts as possible. Driven by your talents, you often go out of your way to stay
informed about newsworthy topics. Numerous people probably count on you to tell them about
information updates, due dates, meeting changes, or special assignments. Instinctively, you normally
dedicate yourself to acquiring knowledge and gaining skills. You probably devote many hours to
mental labor. Chances are good that you tend to be a very good adviser to many individuals. When
offering suggestions or asking questions, you probably are much more engaged, intense, and
involved than usual. Because of your strengths, you approach your work-related or academic
assignments with a great deal of intensity. You are known for putting in long hours and working hard"

nycnoob
07-28-2015, 03:52 PM
Where is the line between pushing yourself and beating your head against the wall?

This reminds me of a discussion on TPI about goals being hijacked. The gist of it was about people starting in a sport and realizing they needed extra fitness to improve, so they do some dedicated fitness at a gym and become competitive about improving their gym scores and let the original sport slide. The issue is that they have no real passion for the gym and eventually give it up totally. The advice was to remember WHY you are doing what you are doing, keeping the gym in perspective would have helped these people continue both sport and gym longer.

In your case I think the question is why are you doing working on "guns"? Is it just a hobby? Are you interested in the self defense aspect? The issue about why you do thinks should be connected to your passion.

cclaxton
07-28-2015, 03:55 PM
The mental aspects of the sport are what hold people back. Read the book: With Winning in Mind by Lanny Bassham.
Sometimes the mental issues are overwhelming. Me and girlfriend just did a zipline workout this weekend. At one point there is a auto-belay system that you hook your harness to and jump off a platform about 20-40 feet in the air. The only thing breaking your fall is the auto-belay device http://www.autobelay.com/.

But mentally you must get over the idea that you are jumping off of a platform 20-40 feet in the air. My girlfriend saw four people do this right before her, but when it was time for her to do it, she could not get her body to step off the platform...her mind was the only thing holding her back...literally. When it came to my turn, I just thought of it like diving into a pool of cold water...gather your courage and jump.

The point I am making here is that your restrictions are in your mind. That is not to say we all don't have physical limitations. I am having difficulty getting my trigger finger to move faster than .24s per round in a pistol. But, I have developed a plan to increase the speed.

Also, just allocate *some* time every day to do your practices....then stick to it. It could just be 30min...but commit to it and do it...again a mental thing.

After 10 min on the platform my girlfriend did finally step off the platform. She loves to do zipline workouts, and we are now discussing an agreement on when I can push her...at her request of course. Over time she will get over her fear.

Cody

EricM
07-28-2015, 03:58 PM
I can absolutely relate to the dilemma. 3 gun is really a pain in the ass isn't it? Several years ago one of my buddies told me I needed to come to this multiday 3 gun match he was going to. I had basic pistol and carbine training and owned quality if not competition-oriented examples of each, but I'd never held a shotgun in my life and had no competition experience whatsoever. Bought a cheap pump, wore a ridiculous load two vest, and had a blast! Next year at the same event, ran basically the same gear with the exception of the nifty tactical jogging stroller I picked up on Craigslist...and I was pretty frustrated at the end of it. The pump was definitely slowing me down, the capacity of my carry pistol was not competitive, the short rail and VFG on my rifle sucked on certain stages (like shooting off sandbags or supported on a barricade), and the Aimpoint was less than ideal for long rifle shots (I wasted 10 or 15 rounds shooting the shadow of a piece of steel at 300 yards thinking it was the target, once I figured it out I hit it right away but that really pissed me off). Sure most of the time it's the archer not the arrow, but the gear matters too especially for something like 3 gun.

I took some time thinking about what I really wanted to do, if I even wanted to do it again. Ended up refitting my rifle for competition with a longer rail and 1-6x, buying an M2 and sending it out for some basic work, switching to a G34 (though that was for other reasons), and building a new 2-piece belt rig. Got serious about my pistol shooting, putting the work in on dry fire and shooting a few USPSA matches. The match this year came around and I'd only shot the M2 and reconfigured rifle a couple times, but the upgrades definitely paid off. I was in no danger of winning, but increased my match points by 15 or 20% if I recall correctly, between being mentally more comfortable and competent in a match situation, vastly improving my pistol shooting (80% training, 20% gun), and not being held back by my rifle or shotgun. Oh, and I also retook the lead from my friend. ;)

If I were you I'd keep my gear and only shoot the events you enjoy. I shot one club-level 3GN event and probably won't shoot many more...compared to a USPSA pistol match, it was a whole lot more work getting everything together and not that much more fun. Another club near me runs some USPSA multigun matches that I think may offer a better variety but I haven't had an opportunity to make it to one yet. Between work and family, my spare time is limited, and I go back and forth on how much dry fire and range time I want to allocate to rifle and shotgun. For now I'm staying focused on pistol. Maybe when I make it to A class? I don't know. If I only make it to one 3 gun match a year I'm cool with that because it's a lot of fun.

RevolverRob
07-28-2015, 04:17 PM
My dad always taught me the following: There will always be someone better than you at something, probably whatever you think you're best at. You can judge yourself against them or you can judge yourself against your own goals and expectations.

That lesson resonates with me today. Will I ever win a Nobel Prize, an Olympic Gold Medal, a UFC Championship, or a USPSA National Title? Not bloody likely. Will I ever stop working to improve myself, to push myself, to think and problem solve creatively, to try? No. No one will stop me from competing, even if I "lose", I will make the winner work hard for it. I may never win those things, but as long as I fulfill my own goals and meet my own expectations I have won in my world and honestly in most of the "real world" too.

So - if you want to challenge yourself do it. If you feel like you can't do it and be happy losing - Quit now or forever be tormented.

ETA: I really mean that last part. Do something, because you can be satisfied even if you try and fail. Failure doesn't mean you're a loser. My father taught me that as well. Many, many, many, moons ago I was playing soccer. My team was in last place, the last game of the season, and we were getting slaughtered 4-Nil. The game was almost over and I was slow to trudge up the field to get on defense, What was the point after all? The ball went out of play and it was a throw-in. The coach had me take it. My dad stood watching as I walked over, staring at the ground, looking defeated.

He came up to me just then and said, "Get your head up! You look like a loser. This game isn't over."

"But we can't win."

"That doesn't mean you can quit before it's over. Get in there and PLAY!"

I threw the ball in, one of their better strikers got the ball and took off for our goal. I chased him down (I played defense). I slide tackled him, got the ball, passed it forward in a good cross, and our best striker put it in the back of their net. We didn't win, but we weren't shut out. Afterwards, my dad patted me on the back and said, "Don't give up before it's over. You took a bad situation and made it better by not being shut out." You can't always win, but you can beat expectations.


-Rob

JHC
07-28-2015, 05:04 PM
I've actually taken that! Interesting my #1 is "Achiever." Not sure if that's the same as "competitor" or not. Here's the description they give:
"'By nature, you ordinarily take time and exert extra effort to comprehend what you are reading. You
probably refuse to rush through written material. Why? You likely intend to commit to memory as
many facts and concepts as possible. Driven by your talents, you often go out of your way to stay
informed about newsworthy topics. Numerous people probably count on you to tell them about
information updates, due dates, meeting changes, or special assignments. Instinctively, you normally
dedicate yourself to acquiring knowledge and gaining skills. You probably devote many hours to
mental labor. Chances are good that you tend to be a very good adviser to many individuals. When
offering suggestions or asking questions, you probably are much more engaged, intense, and
involved than usual. Because of your strengths, you approach your work-related or academic
assignments with a great deal of intensity. You are known for putting in long hours and working hard"

Nice. And we can see your Achiever theme in the frustration of the OP. You're good. Re-read the section on a pure competitor. Who would you rather be ;)

And you're a blend of those top themes btw.

Cincinnatus
07-28-2015, 06:45 PM
My dad always taught me the following: There will always be someone better than you at something, probably whatever you think you're best at. You can judge yourself against them or you can judge yourself against your own goals and expectations.

That lesson resonates with me today. Will I ever win a Nobel Prize, an Olympic Gold Medal, a UFC Championship, or a USPSA National Title? Not bloody likely. Will I ever stop working to improve myself, to push myself, to think and problem solve creatively, to try? No. No one will stop me from competing, even if I "lose", I will make the winner work hard for it. I may never win those things, but as long as I fulfill my own goals and meet my own expectations I have won in my world and honestly in most of the "real world" too.

So - if you want to challenge yourself do it. If you feel like you can't do it and be happy losing - Quit now or forever be tormented.

ETA: I really mean that last part. Do something, because you can be satisfied even if you try and fail. Failure doesn't mean you're a loser. My father taught me that as well. Many, many, many, moons ago I was playing soccer. My team was in last place, the last game of the season, and we were getting slaughtered 4-Nil. The game was almost over and I was slow to trudge up the field to get on defense, What was the point after all? The ball went out of play and it was a throw-in. The coach had me take it. My dad stood watching as I walked over, staring at the ground, looking defeated.

He came up to me just then and said, "Get your head up! You look like a loser. This game isn't over."

"But we can't win."

"That doesn't mean you can quit before it's over. Get in there and PLAY!"

I threw the ball in, one of their better strikers got the ball and took off for our goal. I chased him down (I played defense). I slide tackled him, got the ball, passed it forward in a good cross, and our best striker put it in the back of their net. We didn't win, but we weren't shut out. Afterwards, my dad patted me on the back and said, "Don't give up before it's over. You took a bad situation and made it better by not being shut out." You can't always win, but you can beat expectations.


-Rob

Thanks for sharing this. I always like to hear about these kinds of positive father-son lessons.

ranger
07-28-2015, 08:22 PM
I shoot for fun (and practical practice) - I already have a job (actually two jobs with GAARNG) so no need for me to get unhappy shooting. I became very active in Sporting Clays and like many other sports it can become very expensive. I saw too many Sporting Clays shooters who became so very unhappy missing a clay pigeon or who became unhappy for not winning their class. Add in the side betting and it became stressful and miserable for some. I never played the "money games" and just shot the best I could and tried to have the best time possible. Same with USPSA and IDPA.

TCinVA
07-28-2015, 10:16 PM
I don't shoot to be the best in the world.

I'll likely never be a threat to Bob Vogel, but I don't care about that.

I want to be better than I was yesterday. I like the lightbulb moments when I figure something out...shaving time off of my draw here, or improving my reload there, etc.

Every time I train I end up sucking a little less. And even though I still suck, occasionally when I find myself in a scenario where I'm in competition with others I manage to exceed expectations. (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?13371-Tactical-Conference-2015/page14)

By continually striving to suck a little less at shooting I've learned a whole bunch of lessons applicable to other areas of life, too...learning how to suck a little less at a number of different things that on the surface aren't really tied directly to shooting. There is enormous benefit to the human constitution merely by deliberate exposure to this process even if you never achieve the highest levels of success in the discipline.

Mitch
07-28-2015, 10:39 PM
If I were in your shoes and was going to do anything, I'd stop going to the big matches. Not because I think they're bad in anyway, but it sounds like you don't enjoy them or the outcome. If it's not paying your bills, life is too short to do something you don't enjoy.

If anything, maybe this is a good time to reevaluate your goals and try something new (shooting or otherwise). Variety really is the spice of life sometimes. I'd hold off on selling the gear, though. Give it a break maybe, but don't rid yourself of stuff you may want to replace again soon.

Lomshek
07-28-2015, 11:33 PM
Concept: Better than average at something, but not good enough to be "pro" at it, and unwilling/unable to put in enough time to get to that level. Having achieved best possible results, then tempted to quit.

Where is the line between pushing yourself and beating your head against the wall?

I've been there with road cycling. I was good enough to race (domestically) against the best guys of my era (mid-90's) and make money as an amateur winning cash in Category 1-2 (elite amateur) and Pro/1/2 (pro-am) races (particularly criteriums for those who know the difference). I never made it to the point of a paid contract (shoulda/coulda/woulda) but made enough winning cash prizes to pay the rent and entry fees (very hand to mouth existence). In amateur races I chose which race to attend on a given weekend based on who paid the most for first place knowing that if I didn't win I'd be in the top 3.

I "retired" from racing seriously at 28 when it was obvious a contract wasn't going to come and the wife and I were ready to start a family. Had some of my best pro-am results in the last big race of the year ironically enough.

I still ride for fun and have raced respectably against non-pros when I've had the time to train but the performance difference between that and full time racers is huge.

So that's my background. Here's my take.

Can you actually make enough money as a "pro" in your chosen sport to pay the bills and take care of the family? If the answer is no then enjoy your hobby and leave it at that. No matter how good you are as an amateur a person will never be able to compete against a full time pro.

The time demands in training to try and beat the pros will make you neglect your family and you me or anyone else will still not be a top pro because we're dividing our loyalties. I've joked with friends that if someone wanted to sponsor me for a few years I could very likely get back into the shape to race at least at the elite amateur level. All I have to do is quit my job and abandon my family so I can train 8 hours a day. After a year of 300 - 500 miles a week on the bike I'll be back in decent shape!

As far as not being "good" at a specific game like 3GN so be it. Enjoy the sport for what it is and push yourself for personal improvement. Maybe that means shooting a speed oriented match like 3GN when that's your weak spot or doing a bullseye match when you're a USPSA shooter just to improve that aspect of your gun kata.

fixer
07-29-2015, 06:14 AM
No matter what, your gear is good value for other things besides competition matches. I wouldn't immediately sweat selling it off.

I shoot for enjoyment mostly. But secondly, and a close second at that, it is a hobby that improves my survival chances in this world.

I am professionally employed; 50-60 hrs per week; professional training; wife, son, automobiles that need TLC; there is no way in hell I can reach the level of 'Vogel' or a lot of the folks here in this forum. There literally aren't enough hours in the day and I don't possess the talent that could overcome those obstacles.

The time I do have, I can invest in being a better shooter and hypothetically better than any potential attacker.

I am content with maintaining good and consistent 25 yd groups with both DA/SA and striker fired pistol; Sub 6 second FAST from concealment; moving up a few notches from 'middle of the pack' in my local USPSA matches.

The time I have for training is barely sufficient to achieve these.

So I think you need to establish some realistic goals. I'd be ecstatic if I won a local match multiple times.

Clay1
07-29-2015, 06:47 AM
Not what a lot of people want to hear but even if you had unlimited resources for ammo and gear, then you did not work for a living but rather shot firearms, most people would still not be at the top of the game. Hard truth. Not that I was ever in that situation but after shooting a couple of years I made a commitment to pull the trigger, dry fire and travel more to shoot matches.

I shot about 15,000 rounds in that year and my skill set did improve. I did understand that genetics have something to do with the equation. I'm not going to be the winner at every match. Incremental gains, have to be MY reward. Otherwise, it's time to take up table tennis and put the guns away.

LittleLebowski
07-29-2015, 07:46 AM
I never have shot a match thinking I would win. Being one of the very few (or only!) special snowflakes shooting from concealment helps diminish any thoughts of winning unless of course, you're Gabe White :D

Seriously, it's OK to shoot a match for fun. Just don't come in last, that's all :D My last USPSA match, I was the only guy shooting from concealment. 33rd out of 79. That's FINE by me.

rwa
07-29-2015, 08:53 AM
The "line" is where you decide to draw your line. Mine is drawn in shifting sand. Right now I just shoot for fun and my care factor is pretty low when it comes to winning.

ASH556
07-29-2015, 09:07 AM
This reminds me of a discussion on TPI about goals being hijacked. The gist of it was about people starting in a sport and realizing they needed extra fitness to improve, so they do some dedicated fitness at a gym and become competitive about improving their gym scores and let the original sport slide. The issue is that they have no real passion for the gym and eventually give it up totally. The advice was to remember WHY you are doing what you are doing, keeping the gym in perspective would have helped these people continue both sport and gym longer.

In your case I think the question is why are you doing working on "guns"? Is it just a hobby? Are you interested in the self defense aspect? The issue about why you do thinks should be connected to your passion.

This is probably playing a big part for me. I shoot primarily for the defensive aspect of it, or at least I have until recently. Competition was a way to (1) get better/practice more, and (2) gain some comparison/credibility to see where I stand since I don't have any mil or leo background.

The struggle I face now is to continue to dive deeper into the 3gun rabbit hole or pull out and go another direction. Sure it's fun, but is it the most fun I could be having with the time and money I'm investing or should I try something else. My greatest fear in life is wasted time. Then again, there's this idea to contend with:
http://www.doctornerdlove.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/your-best.jpg

olstyn
07-29-2015, 09:10 AM
I'd be ecstatic if I won a local match multiple times.

Hell, I was delighted when I won a STAGE. If I won a match, I'd probably fall over from shock and joy! :)

What everybody else is saying holds true for me, too. I know I'm not going to be the top guy very often, if at all, and I'm ok with that. I just want to see my scores improve over time, really. As long as that's still happening and I'm still having fun, then my time and money are not wasted. As soon as it becomes not fun, well, that's when I'll consider quitting. (I don't see that happening any time soon.)

nwhpfan
07-29-2015, 09:17 AM
There is no secret to success. It is hard work and practice. One thing the best in anything have in common is they worked hard, practiced, hard work, etc. So if you aren't willing to do that....you'll have to find another reason to enjoy the sport. There is no problem wtih that. I would say at most locals...and even regional matches, their is really only a few people contending for the win. The other hundred or so just enjoy it - or for some other reason. Their is nothing wrong with that.

But, if you want to win, if that's what drive's you; you'll have to get into the garage and get to work. Really..... 20 minutes a night 3-5 nights a week and you'll see drastic improvements.

Maple Syrup Actual
07-29-2015, 10:27 AM
I don't give advice, I just tell people what I'd personally do.

There's no way I'd be committing 12 hour days to 3-gun matches I wasn't really enjoying. "Should" you commit more time and money? What's "should"? It's a game you play that has some spinoff benefits of improving a skill that you will almost certainly never need for any for-keeps competitions that get forced on you. Your skillset probably exceeds that of 99% of the shooting public, and 99% of the non-shooting public in America is alive today despite not even being armed. Odds are heavily in your favour.

Life's short and 3-gun will give you questionable benefits IMO. I'd do what you enjoy.

cclaxton
07-29-2015, 10:35 AM
https://youtu.be/EyhOmBPtGNM
Cody

Hambo
07-29-2015, 02:30 PM
Sure it's fun, but is it the most fun I could be having with the time and money I'm investing or should I try something else. My greatest fear in life is wasted time.

Dude, it's not an existential crisis. In answer to your original question, it's really boring being the big fish in a little pond. I got really tired of winning local matches and moved on to bigger things, mainly 3 gun, where I got my ass handed to me on a regular basis. I think the best I placed was top 10, but I had more fun trying harder against better shooters. It's mainly a question of what motivates you.

Glenn E. Meyer
07-29-2015, 08:08 PM
I know that I won't win most of the time but I can get better and that counts. My accuracy has significantly approved in the past couple of years and that's great. It's like when I lifted serious weights with a friend who was a truly heavy lifter. I could never beat him but if I improved that was great and I felt great.

Now, I once came in 2nd after a national champion IDPA revolver champion when shooting a wheel gun in the IDPA match. He comes in second after Jerry M. So that was a great feat for me, but there were only two revolvers shooters at the local match that day! Haha.

But one stage we were the only two that zeroed it. That was nice.

Andrew E
07-30-2015, 05:06 AM
I never have shot a match thinking I would win. Being one of the very few (or only!) special snowflakes shooting from concealment helps diminish any thoughts of winning unless of course, you're Gabe White :D

Seriously, it's OK to shoot a match for fun. Just don't come in last, that's all :D My last USPSA match, I was the only guy shooting from concealment. 33rd out of 79. That's FINE by me.

Similar here. Shot local action matches (quasi-IDPA-but-not-really) with my LE duty rig. That was some years ago, though--I'm out of LE these days, and I was never a Great Cop in my brief span at any rate.
Anyhow, all these guys show up with G34, G35, tuned 1911s, plus the neighborhood folks with the XD they keep at home, that sort of thing. I was the only bozo shooting a G22C with a Streamlight M3 on it, out of a 6820 SLS holster, reloading from flap-covered mag pouches in synthetic basketweave. That vice using a Kydex OWB belt holster

Never in danger of winning. Between my (comparative lack of) skill, the deliberate equipment handicaps, and the fact that I was trying to shoot with a sliver of "how would I try to look at this IRL?" I was nowhere near the top. On a good day I was probably in the top 1/3. Content had me in the top 50% or so.

But I went there to get some shooting in, with my gear, under an artificial stress. That, plus a couple pistol classes and some directed practice/training, helped make me a better shooter than a 24 y/o reserve Deputy really should have been. Especially given the "standards" that then obtained at the Department's range days, which only happened once per quarter and consisted of shooting a standard duty load of 46 rounds, tops. Usually it was more like 30 or 31 rounds, just enough to "score" if the brass or a conscientious rangemaster was there--not the case, far too often.

I knew I wasn't going to win going into it. So I tried to keep in mind that it was a practice session, and a little bit of a checkup. Tried to use it as a diagnostic for things I should work on in my own practice.
That was the closest to my "line" that I knew of at the time, probably. It was interesting to compare my scores and runs to the usual winners, and to see what they did differently. But I didn't look at my probability to win as a hill worth dying on.

Er, I hope this made some sense.

Glenn E. Meyer
07-30-2015, 10:00 AM
Just remembered when I decided to shoot my 642 at an IDPA match. Not that's not a winner strategy. However, on one stage we had to shoot some steel at a distance. So I took aim and surprise - knocked it done. I heard a strange sound and turned to see I was getting a round of applause from the squad. Haha!

Kyle Reese
07-30-2015, 11:29 AM
Just remembered when I decided to shoot my 642 at an IDPA match. Not that's not a winner strategy. However, on one stage we had to shoot some steel at a distance. So I took aim and surprise - knocked it done. I heard a strange sound and turned to see I was getting a round of applause from the squad. Haha!

We've had match participants in past KSTG matches shoot their every day carry guns (J-Frames, various revolvers, S&W Shields, etc). While this isn't a "winning" strategy on paper, the experience in engaging multiple target arrays at various distances, as well as performing reloads under a time hack made it a valuable learning experience for them. You can still learn a great deal about your shooting ability & improve upon certain areas w/o striving to be the top gamer.

Stephanie B
08-06-2015, 08:18 PM
I shoot Bullseye and I am not competing against others. I am competing against myself and trying to better my past scores. I have fun showing tangible improvement to my scores. That, to me, makes it fun and keeps me progressing.

Agreed.

I switched from this, a Mk.III 22/45 with a Mk.II bushing, Volquartesen trigger and sear:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5QyklR2SHeY/Uzth02ysRGI/AAAAAAAAFNk/5L-G8RPmB2Q/s320/MkIII.JPG

To a K-22:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TmaK0Dkk_KA/VbQOKbv3MGI/AAAAAAAAGJg/adn87_acfyw/s1600/Model-17.JPG

Though I did change the grips to one that fit my hand better.

Both are very accurate. But the K--22 is harder to shoot well, and that's part of the fun.

BJXDS
08-25-2015, 09:26 PM
As stated by many only you can decide why you are doing what you are doing and what you can realistically achieve based on your abilities and level of commitment. There are some of things I love doing but suck at, some I am good at, some I could be better possibly one of the best, if I put the time in. I F*****G HATE to loose, but at times I must accept the loss based on my lack of ability or level of commitment.

The fact of the matter is most of us are average, but never let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game.