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View Full Version : Outer vest carrier for issued soft armor - suggestions/opinions



voodoo_man
07-23-2015, 02:09 PM
I have been given the green light for an outer vest carrier for my issued soft armor, preferably black, can have molle/612/etc.

Who runs one, what experience do you have and what would you do over or recommend?

I would like to run my Motorola, med pouch/kit, and maybe one or two other things on the vest - suggestions for brands?

Trying to get ahead of any back problems that may arise from carrying a 15lb rig day in and day out.

breakingtime91
07-23-2015, 03:21 PM
not sure which one would work for you but Ferro Concepts makes some cool stuff.

voodoo_man
07-23-2015, 03:30 PM
not sure which one would work for you but Ferro Concepts makes some cool stuff.

It's a standard BALCS soft armor, their website doesn't have anything that accepts that.

john c
07-23-2015, 07:29 PM
I'm currently running a Blauer external vest carrier, primarily for cost reasons. Other guys on my dept are using this company: http://www.thevestman.com

They custom make your carrier to your design specs, and it's a true vest carrier, rather than a cover. The vest man is highly recommended. I'm going to upgrade when I get a new vest, at the end of next year.

voodoo_man
07-23-2015, 07:43 PM
I'm currently running a Blauer external vest carrier, primarily for cost reasons. Other guys on my dept are using this company: http://www.thevestman.com

They custom make your carrier to your design specs, and it's a true vest carrier, rather than a cover. The vest man is highly recommended. I'm going to upgrade when I get a new vest, at the end of next year.

That looks pretty good, though I'd prefer something with a little more modular.

Chipster
07-23-2015, 08:29 PM
I've used these people exclusively since 2003. It works but I have to admit it seems there durability hasn't been as great the last couple of years. They are still much, much more durable than Blauer carriers.

http://www.jguniforms.com

drummer
07-23-2015, 09:09 PM
I dont know if it meets your needs in terms of appearance, but I used the Mayflower assault carrier for several years and found it very comfortable. I carried soft armor and plates in it and attached MOLLE pouches as needed.

My agency began purchasing MOLLE external carriers from Point Blank for standard issue soft armor packages. Its not a bad setup but not a Mayflower product. I can send a link to the Point Blank product if interested.

breakingtime91
07-23-2015, 09:33 PM
I dont know if it meets your needs in terms of appearance, but I used the Mayflower assault carrier for several years and found it very comfortable. I carried soft armor and plates in it and attached MOLLE pouches as needed.

My agency began purchasing MOLLE external carriers from Point Blank for standard issue soft armor packages. Its not a bad setup but not a Mayflower product. I can send a link to the Point Blank product if interested.

love my mayflower apc. they can be extremely low profile.

voodoo_man
07-24-2015, 04:02 AM
Thanks for the info ill have to keep researching.

It cannot be a tacticool PC and even though it can accept plates it shouldnt be designed specifically for them, or it can be jumpable.

mark7
07-24-2015, 04:57 AM
I've used these people exclusively since 2003. It works but I have to admit it seems there durability hasn't been as great the last couple of years. They are still much, much more durable than Blauer carriers.

http://www.jguniforms.com

I've had my JG carrier for about 4 years now- no problems with mine.

Coyotesfan97
07-24-2015, 07:12 PM
I wear a http://survivalarmor.com Survival Armor outer carrier with their body armor. Our local shop can get a specific carrier for K9 use. The closest one I can see on the website is the Mil Tac vest. you can buy the carrier or get a package deal with the armor.

voodoo_man
07-25-2015, 04:16 AM
I wear a http://survivalarmor.com Survival Armor outer carrier with their body armor. Our local shop can get a specific carrier for K9 use. The closest one I can see on the website is the Mil Tac vest. you can buy the carrier or get a package deal with the armor.http://survivalarmor.com/product/asrv

That looks like what I am thinkin, way too tacticool, but may work with a little modification

ST911
07-26-2015, 09:52 AM
Regarding Survival Armor- After a demo shoot last year, during which the rep was refreshingly candid, I bought ~12 armor packages across a range of sizes to give them a try. The process was smooth, delivery times average. Like other companies, panels were shorter than I like but the officers like them. There were no returns for adjustment. Custom panels spec'ed were correct with no BS from the reps or factory. This was one of the best armor buys I've had in many years.

voodoo_man
07-26-2015, 12:03 PM
Regarding Survival Armor- After a demo shoot last year, during which the rep was refreshingly candid, I bought ~12 armor packages across a range of sizes to give them a try. The process was smooth, delivery times average. Like other companies, panels were shorter than I like but the officers like them. There were no returns for adjustment. Custom panels spec'ed were correct with no BS from the reps or factory. This was one of the best armor buys I've had in many years.

Ill have to take a closer look.

Coyotesfan97
07-28-2015, 02:25 PM
Regarding Survival Armor- After a demo shoot last year, during which the rep was refreshingly candid, I bought ~12 armor packages across a range of sizes to give them a try. The process was smooth, delivery times average. Like other companies, panels were shorter than I like but the officers like them. There were no returns for adjustment. Custom panels spec'ed were correct with no BS from the reps or factory. This was one of the best armor buys I've had in many years.

Our rep has an outstanding working relationship with Survival Armor. His shop is less than a half mile from our office. He has taken ideas from SWAT and K9 and gone to Survival to implement them. He retired from LE and was a full time SWAT guy. My carrier and vest were measured by him and the fit was excellent. He measured my squad for our new entry vests last month. They should be here in September.

voodoo_man
08-24-2015, 05:17 PM
So I've been doing research and the blauer armorskin tacvest seems to be the cheapest tryout.

http://www.blauer.com/armorskin-tacvest-8375.html

Anyone have direct experience with this vest?

SamuelBLong
08-31-2015, 07:58 PM
You need to call beez combat systems. They will make you whatever you want.

http://www.beezcombatsystems.com/

SCSU74
09-01-2015, 11:05 PM
Have you looked at suspenders at all? Probably help more than an external carrier. I've worn a back defender for the last 5 years and the thing is awesome...

voodoo_man
09-02-2015, 06:15 AM
Have you looked at suspenders at all? Probably help more than an external carrier. I've worn a back defender for the last 5 years and the thing is awesome...

A coworker has a set of the invisible ones that attach as keepers. He said they are good, I might look into them.

We are allowed to have outer carriers in the winter, and they are not giving anyone any issue with continuing to wear them throughout the summer. Getting stuff off my belt is the goal.

johncorey
09-02-2015, 09:26 AM
SKD is about to drop a slick combo at 30% off this noon. It's the Paraclete LVBC *WITH* the 3A BALCS from point blank. Usual colors. Size large only.

DI1
09-02-2015, 08:27 PM
Give Mayflower/Velocity a call. They have lots of products that are not up on their website.
They make excellent kit and have competitive pricing.

BK14
09-03-2015, 08:11 PM
On subject: a buddy is using the Safariland carrier with the central zipper and likes it.

SCSU74
09-05-2015, 12:36 AM
A coworker has a set of the invisible ones that attach as keepers. He said they are good, I might look into them.

We are allowed to have outer carriers in the winter, and they are not giving anyone any issue with continuing to wear them throughout the summer. Getting stuff off my belt is the goal.

Gotcha, thought you were just trying to prevent back problems thought I'd try :)

voodoo_man
09-05-2015, 07:19 AM
Gotcha, thought you were just trying to prevent back problems thought I'd try :)

That's part of it, getting stuff off my belt will help immensely with any back issues.

Ptrlcop
09-05-2015, 10:06 AM
I am in a plain clothes unit but wear a mayflower carrier with a duty belt for all of our overt stuff. It probably isn't what I would choose for patrol but I have some thoughts on load carriage.

IMO the goal should be to distribute your gear so that you can get the right balance to it. Some guys load everything on the vest which can make you too heavy and stresses your lower back.

My normal duty belt set up was very front heavy and stressed my lower back by putting some extra arch in it. Simply moving my radio and taser off of my belt allowed me to move my mag pouch from just left of my buckle to just forward of my 9oclock. This centered the balance of my belt so my lower back can be neutral. I also have room for a small med pouch behind my mags which weighs next to nothing.

My ideal patrol vest would put my radio so that the antenna runs up just behind my left arm with a taser pouch just forward of that. I would have nothing but my notebook and phone in the chest pockets so that I could still use a plate carrier for gun calls.

rathos
09-11-2015, 01:31 AM
We were issued these Point Blank maverick (http://www.pointblankenterprises.com/pointblankbodyarmor/?product=maverick). They have two built in pockets in the front which work great for holding rifle mags and even radios. Not sure the brand of pouches we are issued but so far they have worked well. I did get one of the tag molle pistol pouches as they work a lot better than the issued ones.

Unity Nate
09-15-2015, 12:16 AM
So I've been doing research and the blauer armorskin tacvest seems to be the cheapest tryout.

http://www.blauer.com/armorskin-tacvest-8375.html

Anyone have direct experience with this vest?

I've been wearing an Armorskin for the last month or so as part of a wear test. In general I like it and find it to be far more comfortable exspecially when combined with the Blauer Base Shirts. My biggest complaint is he carrier doesn't allow me to love anything off my belt. Ideally I would like to move a few items like lights and cuffs off my belt into the vest. It's also got too much extra material in the shoulders. Other than that I think it's a move in the right direction. I will be trying a similar option from Safariland soon and I'll be interested to compare.

voodoo_man
09-15-2015, 03:49 AM
I've been wearing an Armorskin for the last month or so as part of a wear test. In general I like it and find it to be far more comfortable exspecially when combined with the Blauer Base Shirts. My biggest complaint is he carrier doesn't allow me to love anything off my belt. Ideally I would like to move a few items like lights and cuffs off my belt into the vest. It's also got too much extra material in the shoulders. Other than that I think it's a move in the right direction. I will be trying a similar option from Safariland soon and I'll be interested to compare.

Which one from safariland? Their site sucks and their photos suck even more.

Unity Nate
09-15-2015, 03:58 PM
Which one from safariland? Their site sucks and their photos suck even more.

You have to contact your factory rep. Their site is useless. I worked with the La Guy and the had a few of the uniform shirt style options.

voodoo_man
09-15-2015, 05:00 PM
You have to contact your factory rep. Their site is useless. I worked with the La Guy and the had a few of the uniform shirt style options.

Yeah local spot has a rep but the stuff I saw sucks.

voodoo_man
12-12-2015, 10:42 AM
update..


So after a lot of procrastination and random street interviews of other officer's who I see wearing external carrier I decided that the 2nd Chance (Safariland Group) external vest will be the vest I order.

http://www.marklsupply.com/assets/images/second_chance_tac_molle.jpg

This one was the most impressive in terms of design and variability. I already have name tape/badge done up with hook/loop so all I have to do is get some pouches for my radio and other kit.

Chuck Haggard
12-12-2015, 03:49 PM
A guy from my old SWAT team started his own business, and one of the things they build is outer carriers. He is a good dude, and they build some quality gear;
http://patroltacsystems.com/

Cool Breeze
12-13-2015, 08:01 PM
update..


So after a lot of procrastination and random street interviews of other officer's who I see wearing external carrier I decided that the 2nd Chance (Safariland Group) external vest will be the vest I order.

http://www.marklsupply.com/assets/images/second_chance_tac_molle.jpg

This one was the most impressive in terms of design and variability. I already have name tape/badge done up with hook/loop so all I have to do is get some pouches for my radio and other kit.
Nice looking rig. I was wondering if you could be more specific about what you heard about that rig and why you chose it. Also what do you plan on carrying as far as armor... Soft 3a? Hard 3a? Rifle plates?

A review will be a must!

voodoo_man
12-13-2015, 08:19 PM
Nice looking rig. I was wondering if you could be more specific about what you heard about that rig and why you chose it. Also what do you plan on carrying as far as armor... Soft 3a? Hard 3a? Rifle plates?

A review will be a must!

Buddy of mine works narc and uses this as a raid vest as well as general purpose carrier. Its worked well for him so far.

I have issued ABA soft armor but i think i will try to get a pair of united armor semi hard 3a plates to supplement. Once i get it i will answer any questions you may have.

Cool Breeze
12-13-2015, 08:31 PM
Buddy of mine works narc and uses this as a raid vest as well as general purpose carrier. Its worked well for him so far.

I have issued ABA soft armor but i think i will try to get a pair of united armor semi hard 3a plates to supplement. Once i get it i will answer any questions you may have.
Awesome. Thanks brother!

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Ocean
01-01-2016, 02:27 AM
We've been talking about allowing these at my dept. Several different models were discussed, but apparently things stalled out over a year ago. After a suggestion from a member of admin I recently turned in a letter from a Dr stating that I should be allowed to wear an external carrier .I'm looking at something along these lines.
http://www.cowelltactical.com/armor-carriers/

voodoo_man
02-03-2016, 04:13 PM
another update...

http://i.imgur.com/f5m3h2i.jpg

Got it in and have been wearing it on duty. Rubs my neck red by the end of the shift but fits well while standing around.

I want to order pouches - radio, flashlight, asp, cuff, etc - recommendations?

Cool Breeze
02-18-2016, 10:13 PM
I want to order pouches - radio, flashlight, asp, cuff, etc - recommendations?

What pouches did you decide on? I've used 5.11 pouches on all my chest rigs/plate carriers and have had no issues. That being said I bought them because they seemed to be the best balance of quality and price. I'm not sure if there is anything better out there. I didn't do much research on the subject.

voodoo_man
02-19-2016, 04:59 AM
What pouches did you decide on? I've used 5.11 pouches on all my chest rigs/plate carriers and have had no issues. That being said I bought them because they seemed to be the best balance of quality and price. I'm not sure if there is anything better out there. I didn't do much research on the subject.

I got a 5.11 radio and 3.6 med pouch.

I put the blueforcegear cuff pouch on it too using a blackhawk molle plastic slider thing.

Also threw a ontigris phone case on it for a notebook and pen. Already have a phone case on my belt. So far so good.

TheNewbie
07-14-2016, 08:31 PM
Any updates from those of you using these?

There are so many choices out there, it's hard to pick. I tried one of these about 4 years ago, and it was so heavy at the end of the day my shoulders killed me. It was a cheaper version, and not really designed for all day wear.

voodoo_man
07-14-2016, 08:40 PM
Any updates from those of you using these?

There are so many choices out there, it's hard to pick. I tried one of these about 4 years ago, and it was so heavy at the end of the day my shoulders killed me. It was a cheaper version, and not really designed for all day wear.

It works well, very comfortable and the Molle allows for a lot of versatility.

I stopped wearing it recently because of some departmental issues regarding policy but I'll get back on it once things settle down.

Also, Safariland has release a new version which is slicker...I'd look at that.

TheNewbie
07-14-2016, 09:56 PM
It works well, very comfortable and the Molle allows for a lot of versatility.

I stopped wearing it recently because of some departmental issues regarding policy but I'll get back on it once things settle down.

Also, Safariland has release a new version which is slicker...I'd look at that.

Thanks!

I have a small waist, 32", so anything to give me more room and comfort.

I'll look at the website, put any tips on sizing ?

TheNewbie
07-14-2016, 10:00 PM
My current under the shirt carrier is 38R. Though it could be a tad bigger and there would be no issue.

Hizzie
07-15-2016, 05:05 AM
Don't overlook duty belt suspenders. The Canadian Center for Law Enforcement had a couple of in depth studies on the benefits.

voodoo_man
07-15-2016, 06:36 PM
Re: size - if you call them up (or a reseller/authorized seller/etc) you may be able to give them the serial number off your soft armor and they will send you a carrier that will fit them.

Re: suspenders - I've seen people with them, I have not used them so I cannot say anything to how effective they are.

TheNewbie
07-15-2016, 07:45 PM
I am not sure it matters after speaking with my Chief this morning. My chief told me we can't look like swat team members and even said no to pants with cargo pockets. We have an image we need to maintain.......

John Hearne
07-15-2016, 08:32 PM
Re: suspenders - I've seen people with them, I have not used them so I cannot say anything to how effective they are.

Before I dropped weight and got in better shape, I had nagging lower back issues. For a while, I ran the suspenders offered by Blackhawk. I found that they worked as advertised and noticed a reduction in my back pain.

One of the few reasons an external carrier might appeal is how much easier it is to run suspenders on your duty belt.

Wisco
07-15-2016, 10:31 PM
We've been talking about allowing these at my dept. Several different models were discussed, but apparently things stalled out over a year ago. After a suggestion from a member of admin I recently turned in a letter from a Dr stating that I should be allowed to wear an external carrier .I'm looking at something along these lines.
http://www.cowelltactical.com/armor-carriers/

My department, as well as the local S.O. all run Richard Cowell carriers. They are outstanding.

voodoo_man
07-16-2016, 07:45 AM
I am not sure it matters after speaking with my Chief this morning. My chief told me we can't look like swat team members and even said no to pants with cargo pockets. We have an image we need to maintain.......

Does he wear a rig and vest every single day? Probably not right.



Before I dropped weight and got in better shape, I had nagging lower back issues. For a while, I ran the suspenders offered by Blackhawk. I found that they worked as advertised and noticed a reduction in my back pain.

One of the few reasons an external carrier might appeal is how much easier it is to run suspenders on your duty belt.

Which ones? Link?

Back pain is sort of the defacto aspect of wearing a rig for 8+ hrs a day everyday for years. I have found doing stretches before and after (back stretches specifically) and I purchased an inversion table to hang from everyday for about 5-15 minutes has helped immensely.

TGS
07-16-2016, 08:21 AM
Tangential question: Seems like an outer carrier presents a problem for a very infrequent occurrence......active shooters. You can't throw on a plate carrier that includes an aid kit and a shotgun card or carbine mags. Seems like the only option would be to keep a separate kit in the trunk to change into (slow to don/doff, super expensive option) or a sling bag, which is very realistic but lacks the armor upgrade for rifle threats.

For those of you who run outer carriers or work with/next to those who do, is this a consideration? Is it unlikely the department would be issuing plate carriers if it were an option, anyway......making it a null point?

voodoo_man
07-16-2016, 08:44 AM
Tangential question: Seems like an outer carrier presents a problem for a very infrequent occurrence......active shooters. You can't throw on a plate carrier that includes an aid kit and a shotgun card or carbine mags. Seems like the only option would be to keep a separate kit in the trunk to change into (slow to don/doff, super expensive option) or a sling bag, which is very realistic but lacks the armor upgrade for rifle threats.

For those of you who run outer carriers or work with/next to those who do, is this a consideration? Is it unlikely the department would be issuing plate carriers if it were an option, anyway......making it a null point?

Nearly a non-issue for my PD. Guys wore both, I wore both and have a sling bad full of "go" stuff. Its just a comfort thing.

John Hearne
07-16-2016, 11:08 AM
For those of you who run outer carriers or work with/next to those who do, is this a consideration? Is it unlikely the department would be issuing plate carriers if it were an option, anyway......making it a null point?

That's one of my concerns, that and externals really remind folks to shoot cops in the head. We are in the midst of a big push to move to externals and it's an all or nothing proposition. Like if, the majority want externals then everyone has to wear externals.

John Hearne
07-16-2016, 11:14 AM
Which ones? Link? ... Back pain is sort of the defacto aspect of wearing a rig for 8+ hrs a day everyday for years. I have found doing stretches before and after (back stretches specifically) and I purchased an inversion table to hang from everyday for about 5-15 minutes has helped immensely.

These: http://blackhawk.com/Products/Holsters-Duty-Gear/Duty-Gear/Belts/Accessories/Ergonomic-Duty-Belt-Harness.aspx

I found their design to be minimally intrusive and very easy to integrate with my existing setup. After a couple of attempts it wasn't a big deal to connect and disconnect them.

voodoo_man
07-16-2016, 01:26 PM
These: http://blackhawk.com/Products/Holsters-Duty-Gear/Duty-Gear/Belts/Accessories/Ergonomic-Duty-Belt-Harness.aspx

I found their design to be minimally intrusive and very easy to integrate with my existing setup. After a couple of attempts it wasn't a big deal to connect and disconnect them.

Inside the shirt?

John Hearne
07-16-2016, 01:39 PM
Inside the shirt?

Yes, I had to make slits in my shirt at 3:00 and 9:00 and pass the buckles through. Nobody could tell I was wearing suspenders and there are no straps on my chest to sling me around with.

voodoo_man
07-16-2016, 04:26 PM
Yes, I had to make slits in my shirt at 3:00 and 9:00 and pass the buckles through. Nobody could tell I was wearing suspenders and there are no straps on my chest to sling me around with.

....sorta want to try...

Wisco
07-17-2016, 10:02 AM
For those of you who run outer carriers or work with/next to those who do, is this a consideration? Is it unlikely the department would be issuing plate carriers if it were an option, anyway......making it a null point?

I have a first spear first on plate carrier that I used before I got my external carrier. It will still work over top of the external carrier. It's far from a perfect set up, but it still gives me a hard armor option should the need arise.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

J_B
07-17-2016, 11:24 AM
My department, as well as the local S.O. all run Richard Cowell carriers. They are outstanding.

Which one? I am a K9 handler and at last week's training day, my Sgt brought up moving to an external armor carrier. At the moment, we wear the usual tactical BDU's by 5.11 and issued a Cowell vest for callous while we are dressed down training but they are not external armor carriers. We were big into his stuff until he moved from local to out of state.

My issue with external carrier is putting my Ferro Concepts Slickster w/the flapster and 3 rifle mags over the external carrier.

Wisco
07-18-2016, 02:22 AM
Which one?

We wear the "External Armor Carrier" https://www.cowelltactical.com/armor-carriers/

I'm not sure how your PC would work with a Cowell vest, but like I said in a previous post, my First Spear PC works ok.

John Hearne
07-19-2016, 05:07 PM
While contemplating this issue, an idea occurred to me. What if the external carrier for your soft armor also carried hard rifle plates? There are some very thin, like 0.55", hard plates that will stop all of the 5.56 and 7.62x39 threats. As set would weight less than 10 lbs. Does anyone make a combination hard and soft carrier that is suitable for patrol. I've seen "covert rifle plate carriers" but that's not what I'm looking for.

Dave Williams
07-19-2016, 05:15 PM
While contemplating this issue, an idea occurred to me. What if the external carrier for your soft armor also carried hard rifle plates? There are some very thin, like 0.55", hard plates that will stop all of the 5.56 and 7.62x39 threats. As set would weight less than 10 lbs. Does anyone make a combination hard and soft carrier that is suitable for patrol. I've seen "covert rifle plate carriers" but that's not what I'm looking for.

http://www.safariland.com/products/body-armor/overt-external-body-armor/overt-external-carriers/tactical-assault-carrier-fixed-pockets-SCA_TAC1_PKT_V.html

My PD issues these it'll take a 10x12 rifle plate.

John Hearne
07-19-2016, 05:34 PM
http://www.safariland.com/products/body-armor/overt-external-body-armor/overt-external-carriers/tactical-assault-carrier-fixed-pockets-SCA_TAC1_PKT_V.html

My PD issues these it'll take a 10x12 rifle plate.

Our national policy for external carriers specifically bans "external Velcro, straps, patches, insignias, or baggy pockets." And we aren't allowed to have any identifiers on the back. Yeah, really.....

voodoo_man
07-19-2016, 06:14 PM
Our national policy for external carriers specifically bans "external Velcro, straps, patches, insignias, or baggy pockets." And we aren't allowed to have any identifiers on the back. Yeah, really.....

Bet some paperpusher who doesn't work the street thought of that.

Drang
07-19-2016, 10:19 PM
Our national policy for external carriers specifically bans "external Velcro, straps, patches, insignias, or baggy pockets." And we aren't allowed to have any identifiers on the back. Yeah, really.....


Bet some paperpusher who doesn't work the street thought of that.

But, hey, they look sharp!

Dave Williams
07-20-2016, 12:59 AM
The state patrol here in Ohio, which I have a ton of respect for, has an interesting rule. You can wear a menacing black molle external vest carrier.....but it can have no pouches on it! LOL it makes no sense, I don't know who comes up with this shit!

secondstoryguy
07-20-2016, 11:36 AM
Good conversation as it's been something I and several of my coworkers have been trying to figure out. I currently wear an Leedway/Oregon City carrier which carries everything except my pistol and mags which reside on my belt. I have tried throwing a minimalist plate carrier over my duty uniform/vest but I feel like puff-stuff the marshmallow man when wearing both. It kills flexibility/mobility and is uncomfortable.

To date I haven't figured out a good practical and quick way to up-armor to rifle threat level armor.

I have been considering utilizing a separate rifle plate carrier as the Oregon City carrier can be unzipped and ditched pretty quickly. The issue I am having is that I have to move both my radio and my Taser onto the plate carrier rig during the transition. While the Taser is a simple switch the radio is a pain because I have the speaker mike cords routed through it so they don't get caught up on everything. The only solution I have though of is to move the radio onto my belt but this is a pain because the antenna and cord get bound up in the external carrier. The solution would be to have an extra radio and incorporate it into a plate rig but thats prohibitively expensive.

JAD
07-20-2016, 11:44 AM
because I have the speaker mike cords routed through it so they don't get caught up on everything.
Could you buy a second speaker mike and just disconnect and reconnect?

Dave Williams
07-20-2016, 02:12 PM
I've been thinking about putting a plate into my vest, problem is I bought a 10x13 sapi and the vest only will hold a 10x12!ugh

Wisco
07-21-2016, 03:03 PM
While contemplating this issue, an idea occurred to me. What if the external carrier for your soft armor also carried hard rifle plates? There are some very thin, like 0.55", hard plates that will stop all of the 5.56 and 7.62x39 threats. As set would weight less than 10 lbs. Does anyone make a combination hard and soft carrier that is suitable for patrol. I've seen "covert rifle plate carriers" but that's not what I'm looking for.

My Cowell Tactical vest has pockets for the standard trauma plates, and has plenty room for rifle plates. I'm sure they'd make a pocket that'd work.

That said, I can't imagine a 12 hour patrol shift would be any fun with an extra 10+ lbs.

I like having the option of throwing a dedicated plate carrier on, versus spending all day wearing hard plates.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

EM_
07-23-2016, 01:24 PM
http://www.safariland.com/products/body-armor/overt-external-body-armor/overt-external-carriers/tactical-assault-carrier-fixed-pockets-SCA_TAC1_PKT_V.html

My PD issues these it'll take a 10x12 rifle plate.

This is the type of thing, with a plate in it, that I think we should all start considering in light of the assaults occurring these days and we should be wearing it as standard for the shift. Yes it will suck, but it will suck less than taking a 7.62 with no protection. For now I'm stuck with a Class A type of carrier that's essentially useless for carrying anything but the panels.

I'm just not convinced that having plates in the trunk are going to be much help as these things seem to evolve much too quickly to grab stuff out of the trunk. I think having extra kit, med supplies, etc., in there is a good idea so once the threat is dealt with you can retrieve and get to work helping folks. Not disagreeing with anyone who likes to carry extra gear in the car. It can never hurt.

secondstoryguy
07-25-2016, 08:44 AM
I stop on the side of the road to charge and chamber check my rifle(SOP states we run rifles in patrol ready/ condition 3) and don a small go bag on the way to any rifle-worthy call. My thought is that doing an armor switch out would only add 30 seconds or a minutes to this procedure. I learned early on that making scene and then charging the rifle is wrong as you want as situations are dynamic and you want as few things to worry about when you make scene.

Would I deploy hard armor on any call? Probably not, it would be call dependent. I try to run my gear very lean/simple in my patrol car and not get carried away with extra widgets. I'm still on the fence about hard armor the logistics of deploying it being worth carrying it.

Dave Williams
07-26-2016, 03:54 PM
.
This is the type of thing, with a plate in it, that I think we should all start considering in light of the assaults occurring these days and we should be wearing it as standard for the shift. Yes it will suck, but it will suck less than taking a 7.62 with no protection. For now I'm stuck with a Class A type of carrier that's essentially useless for carrying anything but the panels.

I'm just not convinced that having plates in the trunk are going to be much help as these things seem to evolve much too quickly to grab stuff out of the trunk. I think having extra kit, med supplies, etc., in there is a good idea so once the threat is dealt with you can retrieve and get to work helping folks. Not disagreeing with anyone who likes to carry extra gear in the car. It can never hurt.

A couple of my coworkers are adding steel plates to the vest we'll see how it goes.

TheNewbie
11-01-2022, 01:51 PM
Bringing up this old thread because it looks like I will be forced to go to one of these. At one time I wanted it, but after finally getting excellent uniforms via Blauer, I am happy with the more traditional uniform. The change is not my choice, but I have some options of what to wear under it and can likely get my own carrier if I want it.


What outer vest carriers are you all using now?


What polos do you like for duty wear? I am reading about 5.11 polos and they have reports of fading easily. Especially darker colored polos like Black and Blue.

sickeness
11-01-2022, 04:44 PM
Bringing up this old thread because it looks like I will be forced to go to one of these. At one time I wanted it, but after finally getting excellent uniforms via Blauer, I am happy with the more traditional uniform. The change is not my choice, but I have some options of what to wear under it and can likely get my own carrier if I want it.


What outer vest carriers are you all using now?


What polos do you like for duty wear? I am reading about 5.11 polos and they have reports of fading easily. Especially darker colored polos like Black and Blue.

I have worn a velocity systems LPAC for the past 5 years and not only is it a great piece of kit, it is probably the only item in the market that fits the bill. Most overt PC are intended for hard armor with the soft armor pockets as an afterthought. My issued 3a panels fit fine in the LPAC and the vest is easy to put on with minimal material for a more low profile appearance. I can fit a raid jacket over it if needed.

Magsz
11-01-2022, 09:52 PM
I have worn a velocity systems LPAC for the past 5 years and not only is it a great piece of kit, it is probably the only item in the market that fits the bill. Most overt PC are intended for hard armor with the soft armor pockets as an afterthought. My issued 3a panels fit fine in the LPAC and the vest is easy to put on with minimal material for a more low profile appearance. I can fit a raid jacket over it if needed.

The V neck on the LPAC fits OK with your soft panels?

What issued 3A soft armor do you have if you don't mind me asking?

DpdG
11-01-2022, 11:29 PM
We use the center-zip Point Blank Guardian in a color matched uniform shirt-like style, but with laser cut molle on the lower torso. Overall appearance is pretty low-profile compared to the popular Oregon City or more overt styles. Been using them for about a year and are quite happy so far. Sizing is quite simple as our armor panels are also Point Blank, so they just take the info off the panels.

Shirts under the vests are Blauer polyester armorskin and are fine, if somewhat inconsistent sizing wise. I have multiple shirts in the exact same size that fit pretty drastically differently. In addition, the gaps between sizes is quite large. A small only fits our smallest female, while a large is too big for all but our biggest guys. As an example, a shift-mate who is 5'9" and 160 wears the same medium size short-sleeve as me, and I'm 6'3" and 200. Mind you he swims in it, but the next smaller size looked like it was from Baby Gap.

TheNewbie
11-02-2022, 12:20 AM
We use the center-zip Point Blank Guardian in a color matched uniform shirt-like style, but with laser cut molle on the lower torso. Overall appearance is pretty low-profile compared to the popular Oregon City or more overt styles. Been using them for about a year and are quite happy so far. Sizing is quite simple as our armor panels are also Point Blank, so they just take the info off the panels.

Shirts under the vests are Blauer polyester armorskin and are fine, if somewhat inconsistent sizing wise. I have multiple shirts in the exact same size that fit pretty drastically differently. In addition, the gaps between sizes is quite large. A small only fits our smallest female, while a large is too big for all but our biggest guys. As an example, a shift-mate who is 5'9" and 160 wears the same medium size short-sleeve as me, and I'm 6'3" and 200. Mind you he swims in it, but the next smaller size looked like it was from Baby Gap.


At my size (5'4", 165), I pretty much have to get everything tailored. The Blauer BDU style uniforms I have now are excellent, after a heavy dose of tailoring. Do they hold up well to washing? Many polos fade easily.


My armor is Survival Armor, so I will give them a call tomorrow to ask about 2-3 items on their website.


I am also looking at these that Chuck Haggard mentioned in this thread years ago. https://patroltacsystems.com/armor-carriers/armor-carriers/

DpdG
11-02-2022, 01:03 AM
At my size (5'4", 165), I pretty much have to get everything tailored. The Blauer BDU style uniforms I have now are excellent, after a heavy dose of tailoring. Do they hold up well to washing? Many polos fade easily.


As much as I'd like to give an answer, we've only been using these shirts since the spring so I'm not sure I have enough data. So far so good with care via department paid dry cleaning. We previously wore class b style Elbeco shirts with military creases, western pockets, and traditional wool/poly pants. Some of the shirts I was still wearing as of the change over this year were from when I was hired by this department in 2011. They were a bit tired and worn, but still serviceable. I doubt the Blauer will last like that, but frankly I don't intend to do another 11 years to find out.

Magsz
11-02-2022, 02:24 AM
We are using Elbeco uniforms. The sizing issue detailed above is consistent with what Elbeco is producing.

I wear an XL t-shirt in the real world. I wear Elbeco shirts in size small. A medium is down to my knees and the short sleeves are below my elbows. I have zero clue who they are sizing these for.

We are using a center zip Point Blank external carrier with old fashioned molle. I hate this carrier. It's incredibly hot and I have barely any room for anything on it since the center zip takes up something like 30% of the useable space on the vest. I don't carry anything on my firearm side that could impede my draw and I don't carry anything on the left side of my body that restricts my arms. It's a step in the right direction but I feel like laser cut molle would be a cleaner overall look along with a side opening. Oh well, I don't make any policy changes or purchasing decisions here so it's better than what we had.

DpdG
11-02-2022, 03:00 AM
We are using a center zip Point Blank external carrier with old fashioned molle. I hate this carrier. It's incredibly hot and I have barely any room for anything on it since the center zip takes up something like 30% of the useable space on the vest. I don't carry anything on my firearm side that could impede my draw and I don't carry anything on the left side of my body that restricts my arms. It's a step in the right direction but I feel like laser cut molle would be a cleaner overall look along with a side opening. Oh well, I don't make any policy changes or purchasing decisions here so it's better than what we had.

The laser cut definitely improves the usable molle space as there is molle on the flap covering the zipper. Even still- pouch placement is still something to watch out for. I have flashlight, OC, and cuffs on the front strong side, mags and radio on support side. Gun and taser stay on belt. Our smaller folks are more constricted on placement.

TheNewbie
11-02-2022, 09:18 AM
All I plan to put on the vest is a TQ, radio, one pair of cuffs, and a taser.


I also need to find the most durable polos. Looks like Blauer might be the best option.

BK14
11-02-2022, 05:17 PM
I was running a velocity LPAAC with only soft armor for a couple years. I’d switched to a Scarab PC with soft armor on the side, and ran that for about a year before policy was changed and specifically banned PCs. I’m back in the LPAAC, but I also wear front and rear plates.

Most recently, I’ve purchased a TYR vest. Out of need for “full coverage” soft armor per policy, and my desire to wear plates, the tyr vests seem to be the best compromise, of still getting armor, but staying low profile/minimal, and working very well with plates.

Magsz
11-02-2022, 06:42 PM
The laser cut definitely improves the usable molle space as there is molle on the flap covering the zipper. Even still- pouch placement is still something to watch out for. I have flashlight, OC, and cuffs on the front strong side, mags and radio on support side. Gun and taser stay on belt. Our smaller folks are more constricted on placement.

See, I dig that. There's a weird gap in the center of my vest due to the zipper. It's not efficient. We are about to get body camera's and I have zero clue as to where i'm going to put that thing. Our vests have "uniform pockets" on them which also takes up a in incredible amount of real-estate and offers almost nothing in the way of utility since the pockets are so incredibly shallow. Sometimes I wonder if these things are designed and ever wear tested by people that actually give a crap?

TheNewbie
11-02-2022, 07:01 PM
See, I dig that. There's a weird gap in the center of my vest due to the zipper. It's not efficient. We are about to get body camera's and I have zero clue as to where i'm going to put that thing. Our vests have "uniform pockets" on them which also takes up a in incredible amount of real-estate and offers almost nothing in the way of utility since the pockets are so incredibly shallow. Sometimes I wonder if these things are designed and ever wear tested by people that actually give a crap?

So the pockets are not useful? I was looking at the link below because my vest is survival armor, and I like having regular pockets. If the pockets are not useful, then I have little interest in this thing.

https://survivalarmor.com/products/class-a-molle/

Magsz
11-02-2022, 07:10 PM
So the pockets are not useful? I was looking at the link below because my vest is survival armor, and I like having regular pockets. If the pockets are not useful, then I have little interest in this thing.

https://survivalarmor.com/products/class-a-molle/

No clue on the survival armor product. I am using Point Blanks variation of that style of carrier and the pockets are nigh useless. I can't fit a standard pocket sized notepad in there...

The flap itself is too short for the pocket so it never stays closed either. It looks like trash.

TheNewbie
11-02-2022, 08:01 PM
No clue on the survival armor product. I am using Point Blanks variation of that style of carrier and the pockets are nigh useless. I can't fit a standard pocket sized notepad in there...

The flap itself is too short for the pocket so it never stays closed either. It looks like trash.

Point blank is supposed to be higher end correct?

I’m also looking at these.

https://survivalarmor.com/products/oregon-carrier/

https://survivalarmor.com/products/salem-carrier/

sickeness
11-03-2022, 02:01 AM
The V neck on the LPAC fits OK with your soft panels?

What issued 3A soft armor do you have if you don't mind me asking?

I am issued point blank soft panels.
I am 5'7 180lbs and have a large LPAC and my panels fit very well.
If you are concerned about fit, Velocity will custom make the vest to fit whatever panels you are using if you trace them and send them in.

I was originally issued a point blank Oregon-style carrier by my agency (the same one you just linked) and words cannot describe how much I hated that thing.
It is overly bulky, traps heat in your torso during the summer, and a pain in the ass to take on and off due to all the internal velcro straps, webbing and external zippers.

The LPAC is as low profile and minimalist as you can get and scalable with different cummerbunds and placards if you want to add additional load carriage.
I can take it on and off in less than 15 seconds.

Here's a review from a while back from another site:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?130179-Mayflower-R-amp-C-Low-Profile-Armor-Carrier-amp-HSP-D3-Chest-Rig-Quick-Review-LOTS-O-PICS

ST911
11-03-2022, 07:44 AM
So the pockets are not useful? I was looking at the link below because my vest is survival armor, and I like having regular pockets. If the pockets are not useful, then I have little interest in this thing. https://survivalarmor.com/products/class-a-molle/

Based on your posts I don't think you'll like that one.

Talking about Survival Armor, I have several of these in both the traditional front velcro closure and front-zip: https://survivalarmor.com/products/raid-tac-molle/

TheNewbie
11-03-2022, 08:37 AM
Based on your posts I don't think you'll like that one.

Talking about Survival Armor, I have several of these in both the traditional front velcro closure and front-zip: https://survivalarmor.com/products/raid-tac-molle/

Is it comfortable for all day wear?

Which type of closure do you prefer?

ST911
11-03-2022, 10:37 AM
Is it comfortable for all day wear? Which type of closure do you prefer?

It's "comfortable" as armor goes. Best results are custom fit with test panels, getting first delivery, then refine with a trip back for a final cut. I'd buy the panels and carrier together. I'm pretty particular though.

I've come to like the front closure better. Easier to don/doff, and I can pop it open. Zippers hold up and you're not putting extra wear on the hook/loop which is usually the first thing to go.

TheNewbie
11-03-2022, 04:47 PM
It's "comfortable" as armor goes. Best results are custom fit with test panels, getting first delivery, then refine with a trip back for a final cut. I'd buy the panels and carrier together. I'm pretty particular though.

I've come to like the front closure better. Easier to don/doff, and I can pop it open. Zippers hold up and you're not putting extra wear on the hook/loop which is usually the first thing to go.

Really appreciate your input. I already have my panels cut to me, so they said that the information off of those panels could be used to create a properly sized carrier.


I tried an outer carrier years ago and it was a no go for anything more than a short time non daily use. Let’s hope this experience is better.

ST911
11-03-2022, 05:11 PM
Really appreciate your input. I already have my panels cut to me, so they said that the information off of those panels could be used to create a properly sized carrier.
I tried an outer carrier years ago and it was a no go for anything more than a short time non daily use. Let’s hope this experience is better.

While we're on this subject... If you're going to wear an external carrier, the panels you're using should be sized/fit with that carrier in mind. Panels fit to a concealable carrier will ride and conform to the body differently when moved externally. Due to the added material and fit of the external carrier, ride height on the torso and gap/overlap on the sides will vary. I generally find that adding +.5-1" in length and spec'ing a ~2" overlap to the manufacturer's normal concealable measurement will provide good fit and coverage in an external.

There is some variation to this by manufacturer and their fit templates, but you get the idea.

DpdG
11-03-2022, 07:20 PM
No clue on the survival armor product. I am using Point Blanks variation of that style of carrier and the pockets are nigh useless. I can't fit a standard pocket sized notepad in there...

The flap itself is too short for the pocket so it never stays closed either. It looks like trash.

I think Point Blank has been doing some rolling revisions on pocket depth. The original sample we had gotten (sewn molle) had useless shallow pockets. The laser cut ones we actually got within the last year have a deep pocket within the pocket. The front part is shallow, but there is a divider with the back part being deep enough that a 6” iPhone (the regular, not mega ones) easily fits with the flap closed.

Magsz
11-03-2022, 08:18 PM
I think Point Blank has been doing some rolling revisions on pocket depth. The original sample we had gotten (sewn molle) had useless shallow pockets. The laser cut ones we actually got within the last year have a deep pocket within the pocket. The front part is shallow, but there is a divider with the back part being deep enough that a 6” iPhone (the regular, not mega ones) easily fits with the flap closed.

My vest has that dual pocket setup. The issue is that the pocket flap doesn't close once you put something into those pockets. We have our nape tapes sewn on the pocket flap so no one can ever see who I am. It's...sigh. :)