Best ammo for a Model 327 Nightguard?

[314159]

I'm wondering what would be the best ammo choice for a 2.5 inch .357 Nightguard? Almost certainly a .38+P load. (Except maybe the last round under the hammer, just to let you know when the piece is empty...) The gun, although VERY light has large comfortable Crimson Trace grips on it and is not difficult to control at all. So, maybe the 110 Hornady +P or 148 full wadcutters I use in a J frame could be improved upon a bit. Perhaps the 135 +P Gold Dot, but I've heard they really prefer a 3-4 inch barrel. Is 2.5 inches close enough?
Then of course, what should be the last round under the hammer to announce "reload"? I guess the real question is: treat this like a .38 snubby or like a medium frame gun? It's an odd revolver but I shoot it well and it's rare enough to usually draw a crowd, particularly after it shoots 8 times. If Nyeti reads this, how would you recommend storage/carry for a car gun like this? Thanks for the help.

[serialsolver]

With my 327pc I picked a load that shoots POA and POI the same. Mine is sighted for 158 gr bullitts. I use 38 sp +p 158 gr rounds. I have 158 gr mags for the last two rounds. The first 357 mag to tell me it's almost empty. The last 38 with a flash bag is for my evacuation.
Here's my problem child.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee179/serialsolver/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-12/A98D2154-3091-47C3-BB0A-329FFF352D98_zpsojxqb6r0.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/user/serialsolver/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-12/A98D2154-3091-47C3-BB0A-329FFF352D98_zpsojxqb6r0.jpg.html)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[314159]

Wow, that's an interesting revolver. What sort of grips are those? My 2.5 inch barrel has a pretty short ejector stroke, any issues with ejection of cases with that barrel length?

[SLG]

Unless there is a new load, the 135 gr gold dot was designed for the NYPD, and optimized for short barreled revolvers. It is the load of choice in a snub, afaik. Maybe Doc or Nyeti can confirm or deny. I find the recoil to be barely more than a wadcutter in my airweight J's.

[Dagga Boy]

I buy and use as much 135 Gold dot short barrel as I can get my arthritic hands on. Performance is good and recoil is light.

[coldcase1984]

With my 327pc I picked a load that shoots POA and POI the same. Mine is sighted for 158 gr bullitts. I use 38 sp +p 158 gr rounds. I have 158 gr mags for the last two rounds. The first 357 mag to tell me it's almost empty. The last 38 with a flash bag is for my evacuation.
Here's my problem child.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee179/serialsolver/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-12/A98D2154-3091-47C3-BB0A-329FFF352D98_zpsojxqb6r0.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/user/serialsolver/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-12/A98D2154-3091-47C3-BB0A-329FFF352D98_zpsojxqb6r0.jpg.html)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That pic makes me want one! SS, are those Corian grips and who makes them. Makes the ol' DW look out-dated for my car/anti-flash mob tool.

[JodyH]

I buy and use as much 135 Gold dot short barrel as I can get my arthritic hands on. Performance is good and recoil is light.
Sgammo.com has it in the 50 round boxes for a good price. Was in stock as of Tuesday when I ordered 10 boxes.

[serialsolver]

The grips are boot grips from Collins craft grips. I've not had problems with extraction. The problems I've had with it are a loose barrel shroud and center pin floating letting the cylinder unlock at firing. I'm still fussing with it. I like it cause it's like a magazineless shield or glock 43.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[1slow]

Except hugely fatter.
I considered one for AIWB ECQC duty for a while. No slide to hang up on clothes etc....

[314159]

That decides it then, I'll go with the 135 Gold Dots. Just for general info, is there a .357 load that works well with only 2.5 inches of barrel to launch it?

[serialsolver]

There is a gold dot short barrel load in 357 mag.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LSP972]

... center pin floating letting the cylinder unlock at firing.

Have you checked the front lug? Sounds like it was cut a bit too short during fit-up. If you're seeing gouge marks on the front edge of the ejector rod, there's your probable culprit.

Another possibility is the bolt plunger and spring may be weak or missing.

What you describe is one of those rarely-seen issues that can be a bitch to isolate.

.

[Hizzie]

I use the Corbon 125gr DPX load (357 magnum). It's pleasant in my SP101.

[serialsolver]

LSP972, sorry for the late reply. I had two long days bailing hay and taptalk issues. When I got this 327 it had a mark on the frame and not on the cylinder. Could not understand how it got there.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee179/serialsolver/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-12/4C47A3A7-D13C-4DC7-80D4-DBA7DEA2902A_zps1lo98iyf.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/user/serialsolver/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-12/4C47A3A7-D13C-4DC7-80D4-DBA7DEA2902A_zps1lo98iyf.jpg.html)
I shot some 158gr lead mags in it followed by some copper rounds. I looked it over and saw the copper rounds had hit the forcing cone off center.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee179/serialsolver/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-12/384A6006-80BC-47D9-BD1D-7738019FA36F_zpsqneghcw2.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/user/serialsolver/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-12/384A6006-80BC-47D9-BD1D-7738019FA36F_zpsqneghcw2.jpg.html)
I did some thinking about it and tested a theory. I marked the frame with a sharpie marker.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee179/serialsolver/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-12/8772A313-6807-4728-B62A-4350EED92D06_zpsuaie3pym.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/user/serialsolver/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-12/8772A313-6807-4728-B62A-4350EED92D06_zpsuaie3pym.jpg.html)

Then fired a couple 357 mags in it. The marker was wiped off the frame and transferred to the frame.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee179/serialsolver/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-12/F194C891-997D-4FDC-BAF3-BA5A379625AC_zpskmtkwuut.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/user/serialsolver/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-12/F194C891-997D-4FDC-BAF3-BA5A379625AC_zpskmtkwuut.jpg.html)
At firing the center pin is floating. Letting cylinder unlock at the rear, hitting the frame and the bullet exits the cylinder pointed at the top of the forcing come. I contacted s&w they wanted the 327pc back. I sent it. S&w returns it with a new cylinder and yoke. The parts list from s&w list a titanium center pin. I repeated the above test and its still unlocking but not as bad. It doesn't show up as well as the above pictures. The last time I shot it, after 24 rounds the barrel was loose. S&w may have confidence in no front lock on the center pin on these light weight guns but I don't. I thought about shooting it some more to see if the cylinder hits the frame more but I worry how much more stress the frame can take before it lets go.

[LSP972]

I didn't know there was no front locking lug on these; never looked at one that closely. No yoke "lock" (implanted ball bearing) either?

Yeah, that would do it, for sure.

Hmmm; sounds like this one is another M-12… shoot it to verify function and zero, then don't shoot it no more (for funsies, anyway).

S&W broke new ground with these titanium cylinder/scandium frame "magnums". My 2002-vintage M-360PD has had thousands of trouble-free rounds through it… and a key fact is that all but 15 of those have been mid-range .38 Special (i.e., not stressful to the gun) factory cartridges, or my bunny-fart reloads. I put three cylinderfuls of full patch .357s through it when I got it, and promptly declared that was a WRAP for "magnums".

Personally, I don't get it. No front lug on a flyweight .357? What were they thinking???

Thanks for the detailed photos and explanation. Very informative.

.

[SLG]

I think my 296 has the same issue. I'm not around it right now, does anyone know if it too is missing a front lug?

[314159]

Just for the record. On the M327 Nightguard model, witch has a 2.5 inch barrel, there is a front lock on the center pin.

[Dagga Boy]

I treat all of these flyweights as carry a lot shoot a little. Now my 627 PC....that is the 327 training gun. It came up about why Ruger (the place that owns a titanium foundry) has not done a TI SP101....I think this is it.

I think part of the real allure of the 3.5" Model 27 for me is that it's the snub that you really can shoot full house .357 with no worries, and control the gun with those loads. Other than that, if you want to shoot hot magnums out of mid size and small guns....GP100 and Sp101's are the answer to that idea.

[LSP972]

I think my 296 has the same issue. I'm not around it right now, does anyone know if it too is missing a front lug?

My 242, which isn the same gun but with two more, smaller, holes in the cylinder, has it. So I suspect your 296 does as well.

This is bizarre. The anchored-at-both-ends center pin has been what sets S&W revolvers apart from the others since the introduction of the Hand Ejector in 1899, for Pete's sake, while still retaining a bit of elegance. Rugers are just clunky tanks, which is why they put everything else in the shade in terms of durability.

.

[SLG]

My 242, which isn the same gun but with two more, smaller, holes in the cylinder, has it. So I suspect your 296 does as well.

This is bizarre. The anchored-at-both-ends center pin has been what sets S&W revolvers apart from the others since the introduction of the Hand Ejector in 1899, for Pete's sake, while still retaining a bit of elegance. Rugers are just clunky tanks, which is why they put everything else in the shade in terms of durability.

.

Huh. I''l check tonight, thanks. Maybe if you feed your's right it will heal up and grow bigger:-)

[LSP972]

Maybe if you feed your's right it will heal up and grow bigger:-)

Nah; its a tactical advantage, y'heard??? When the bad guy does a 007 on me ("That's a Smith & Wesson; and you've had your six!")… surprise!;)

.

[serialsolver]

The 327pc has a ball lock on the crane under the barrel that presses against a notch in the bottom of the barrel shroud.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee179/serialsolver/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-12/4A44AB4C-BD29-40FF-BBAA-F6FBA79E7715_zpsyt58knn3.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/user/serialsolver/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-12/4A44AB4C-BD29-40FF-BBAA-F6FBA79E7715_zpsyt58knn3.jpg.html)
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee179/serialsolver/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-12/8183E7A1-F383-444E-A242-CE20C47D025B_zps7py30vlx.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/user/serialsolver/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-12/8183E7A1-F383-444E-A242-CE20C47D025B_zps7py30vlx.jpg.html)
I'm not as confident in the design as s&w. My 329pd, 329ng, 340pd and 396ng have not had this problem but they have a front lock to the end of the ejector to support the center pin. I would not want a s&w revolver without the lock on the ejector. This is what killed my interest in the m69. Time will tell if other smith revolvers like this develope this problem.

I also contacted Wolff springs and told them about this problem hoping for a extra power center pin spring but have not heard from them.

[LSP972]

...on the crane...


That's a yoke. Its called a crane on Colt revolvers. Dunno what Ruger calls it; heavy-duty truss, maybe…:D

Okay, that makes a bit more sense. But I agree, it cannot be as positive as the lug holding the front of the ejector rod.

And I don't think a heavier extractor or center pin spring (there are two springs in there) is going to help any. Just my opinion…

.

[LSP972]

BTW, guy… are you an armorer? I ask because it is my understanding that the special tool needed to remove those shrouded barrels is a tightly-controlled item out of the factory.

I'd hate to think I've been wasting your time telling you stuff you already know…

.

[serialsolver]

I never was a s&w armorer. I just discovered that a modified Dan Wesson barrel wrench will work.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee179/serialsolver/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-12/259ACBF4-E687-4421-AEC9-63C513A34501_zpsbmxbduuk.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/user/serialsolver/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-12/259ACBF4-E687-4421-AEC9-63C513A34501_zpsbmxbduuk.jpg.html)

[LSP972]

Clever fellow, you.

Thanks for the pictorial tutorial on this beast. I am enlightened.

.

[serialsolver]

Thanks for the kind words. I really should give up on these light weight alloy wonders. I guess I'll go back to my snubby m66.

[LSP972]

Yeah; while I have been intrigued by this particular example, I really could not see the "justification" for its heinous price tag... and therefore never looked into it very far. You have helped me realize my instincts were correct.

Its hard to go wrong with a 2.5" K frame "magnum", for a general-purpose revolver. A hoss with full patch .357s, and a hernia-maker if you carry it much; but also about as dependable a tool as you could ask for. I was issued one in 1978, and it lived in my various POVs for almost 30 years. It now does yeoman duty as a bathroom piece.:D

If you will send me an e-mail address via PM, I'll send you pics of the morphodite critter I made on a whim, out of a 4" SB M-66 and a 2" M-64 barrel. Its looks will make a freight train take a dirt road; but its a GREAT "car gun"...:cool:

.

[Dagga Boy]

This is a continual debate for me daily on "the car gun". It is always a tough decision on these things. I go back and forth a lot (I also have a 627 that is sort of the fat heavy version of both).

[314159]

Here would be a good place for a new thread by Nyeti about the proper method of "car gun" carry/storage/usage. I can only suggest of course...

[Drang]

Here would be a good place for a new thread by Nyeti about the proper method of "car gun" carry/storage/usage. I can only suggest of course...

Can you subscribe to a thread that hasn't been started yet?