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ToddG
09-07-2011, 10:44 AM
Saw this on another forum and thought it would be an interesting test for pistol-forum members. It was opined that very few people could pull this off.

From concealment, draw and hit a 5" circle five times in five seconds from five yards. Try it five times (25 total rounds). Report back on your results.

For simplicity's sake, I created a quick target you can print out on an 8.5x11 sheet of paper:
circle5inch.pdf (http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/circle5inch.pdf)

JV_
09-07-2011, 10:48 AM
It was opined that very few people could pull this off.I bet there are many who can do this in < 3s.

gringop
09-07-2011, 10:56 AM
A 2 second draw and 4 .75 splits. Seems very possible.
Doing it clean 5 times in a row may make it interesting.

Challenge accepted! It may be a while before I can get to the range. Dove season is here

Gringop

ToddG
09-07-2011, 10:57 AM
I don't wish to speak to the original commenter (who happens to be a member here) but my guess is that he meant "very few" across a much broader spectrum of shooter than those who frequent pistol-forum.com. I don't doubt that at all. I'm much more interested in how well a group of more serious practitioners performs.

John Ralston
09-07-2011, 11:01 AM
I will give it a try this week.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

vecdran
09-07-2011, 12:43 PM
So this is a much easier bill drill...

LittleLebowski
09-07-2011, 01:07 PM
Maybe this weekend........

orionz06
09-07-2011, 01:21 PM
Seems like it is not impossible.

YVK
09-07-2011, 01:43 PM
If drill designer would accept a 5.5 inch target, which is a diameter of a black circle of NRA bullseye, then I have definitely done it, but I am not sure if I'd done it 5 times in a row. I use NRA bull to practice my circle drills, with primary goal to keep all in black, and secondary goal to keep it all within larger 8 inch circle. I generally keep all in black with a moderately paced splits. In addition, the closest I am allowed to bring the target in on my range is 7 yards.

I have little doubt that p-f.com members will do fine with this drill. If I can get to run it formally as described above, I'll report my results.

Sherman A. House DDS
09-07-2011, 02:27 PM
There is a thread elsewhere where former Rogers Shooting School instructor, Renaissance man and general badass CLAUDE WERNER showed targets he made for this type of drill. I think he just used a large sheet of paper and dusted with spray paint around an old CD disc. Just under 5 inches in diameter, and easily reproduced at the range, where cardboard and spray paint is plentiful.

DOH! Just saw Todd added a target for this!

Slavex
09-07-2011, 03:46 PM
Yay for now having the internet at the range.
36 C at the club, threw on jacket. No problem with this drill at all. Even on the bad draws with a shitty jacket it was a none issue time wise or accuracy wise. Plenty if time actually.

jetfire
09-07-2011, 03:52 PM
Yay for now having the internet at the range.
97 F at the club, threw on jacket. No problem with this drill at all. Even on the bad draws with a shitty jacket it was a none issue time wise or accuracy wise. Plenty if time actually.

Translated that into proper units of measure for you. :D

HeadHunter
09-07-2011, 07:03 PM
Saw this on another forum and thought it would be an interesting test for pistol-forum members. It was opined that very few people could pull this off.

I meant very few people could pull it off with an Airweight snub. Snub .38s were the original challenge. It's probably not that hard with a service pistol, especially for people who practice. Practice is, of course, a commodity not as common among most gunowners as it is on this forum. Funny how having standards higher than "ballistic masturbation" can motivate us.
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s91/HeadHunter_album/Snubs/snubchallengeFreestyle.jpg

If it's not challenging enough, you can up the ante by doing it strong hand only.
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s91/HeadHunter_album/Snubs/snubchallengeSHO.jpg

Slavex
09-07-2011, 08:05 PM
Didn't have a holster for my jframe. So did low ready instead. Set Par for 3.5. First attempt was first shot out then next 5 were clean. That was fun.

Wheeler
09-07-2011, 09:00 PM
If Headhunter is doing consistent sub-five second runs with an airweight J frame, it seems to me that 3-3.5 seconds would be more on par for a service pistol.

Wheeler

Edit to add: Of course that takes away the cool name of the drill...

will_1400
09-07-2011, 10:17 PM
Next level of difficulty: change the target to a 3x5 card. :D

Kyle Reese
09-07-2011, 10:19 PM
I'll give this a whirl at the NRA Range on Friday night for grins.

Jay Cunningham
09-07-2011, 10:28 PM
I'll check this out next time I hit the range.

ToddG
09-08-2011, 06:47 AM
I meant very few people could pull it off with an Airweight snub.

Misunderstanding on my part, then. Sorry!

TCinVA
09-08-2011, 08:24 AM
It might make for some interesting data to compare performance on the drill with a service weapon to a snub. Frequently folks who bother to carry come down more on the "easily carried" side of the spectrum rather than the "easy to shoot well" side, and opine that it's all OK because "shot placement" matters more than anything else. This would be a good drill to quantify just how much more difficult putting bullets on target with a smaller gun actually is for many.

I'd like to get to the range this weekend and give it a go with a few different handguns.

Frank B
09-08-2011, 09:00 AM
Translated that into proper units of measure for you. :D

Depending on where you comming from;) At my side of the world, itīs the proper measure:)

LittleLebowski
09-08-2011, 10:09 AM
Depending on where you comming from;) At my side of the world, itīs the proper measure:)

Which part of the world are you from :D

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/TheWorld.png

Frank B
09-08-2011, 03:10 PM
:D from the "asshole" part, of course, regards your map!:D

BigT
09-09-2011, 07:20 AM
I'm "fortunate" enough to be in developed Africa :)

ToddG
09-09-2011, 09:06 AM
I'm going to give this a run at the range today (w/ my G17).

Little Creek
09-09-2011, 10:24 AM
It would be more of a challenge with a service pistol if it were "5 pair" (10 shots).

Ga Shooter
09-09-2011, 10:40 AM
How about taking it to the next step. I know quite a few people who carry an airweight as a BUG and carry for WHO deployment. What would be an acceptable level of accuracy and time for this test WHO?

SamuelBLong
09-09-2011, 03:24 PM
I shot this last night cold, from concealment, as a warmup; Not really pushing it... focusing on good press outs and sight tracking.

I used a CD-R as a template to trace circles onto the back of a Q target;

Gun: G34 w/ TLR1 Weaponlight, Grip force adapter, Warren Tac Sights
Holster: Comp-Tac C-Tac Light Bearing IWB
Cover Garment: Fleece Jacket


Here's my data:

Run 1 - Clean - 3.66 - 2.04/.42/.39/.43/.38
Run 2 - Clean - 3.53 - 1.98/.36/.35/.42/.42
Run 3 - Clean - 3.41 - 2.05/.36/.34/.34/.32
Run 4 - Clean - 3.47 - 1.90/.44/.39/.39/.35
Run 5 - Clean - 3.63 - 2.10/.47/.39/.36/.31

Avg Run time - 3.54

http://web.me.com/samuelblong/ME/Blank_files/IMG_0243.jpg

Pennzoil
09-09-2011, 03:38 PM
Buddy and I did this drill today at the end of our range session. I used my FS M&P 9mm, CCC shaggy, and CCC BMC under a t shirt. My times averaged between 3.68 sec to 3.94 sec with my worst time being 4.84 seconds due to fumbled draw as the rear of my pistol caught my sweat soaked t-shirt during draw. All were clean runs. My buddy ran faster then me with 1911 in leather holster and carrier under a t-shirt but don't recall his exact times. Seems I lost the sheet with the split times as we were in a rush to clean up and get out of the desert heat.

Looking back I played it safe taking my time just trying to beat 5 seconds and not pushing my self enough. It seemed like a good use of 25 rounds for me and I'll probably add it into my rotation of drills with a modified par time to push myself more. I think 3.5 seconds like others listed earlier in the thread would work good for me right now. Comparing my times against others here in different drills I imagine a lot of people here will be quite a bit faster then my times.

LittleLebowski
09-09-2011, 09:03 PM
My findings are in line with everybody else's. I need to dial in the shot timer on my Droid and time myself but with the targets set to five seconds face time, the hardest part of this drill was taking my time and using the generous time allotted.

I barely sqeaked by on one round (target below) and then decided to kick it up a notch on a smaller target.

I think changing the allotted time to four seconds would be better for this forum.

Gen4 G19 from AIWB (Shaggy) concealment.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/IMAG0501.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/IMAG0502.jpg

ToddG
09-09-2011, 11:01 PM
Shot this cold tonight. G17 gen4, 115gr Blazer TMJ, CCC Shaggy, CCC BMC, untucked pistol-training.com polo (guaranteed to take 1sec off your FAST times!).

5 runs, 25 hits.

2.57 total, 1.37 first shot
2.33 total, 1.33 first shot
2.41 total, 1.32 first shot
2.48 total, 1.35 first shot
2.39 total, 1.47 first shot


Average was 2.44 seconds. I'd like to say I was being extra careful and taking my time, but some of the shots were close enough to the edge that I wouldn't promise I could do it under 2.5 on demand.

http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/5challenge5inch.jpg

Actually, I think there are a lot of interesting variations of this drill that we could play with. Someone commented on my site that it could be done on 2" circles, so I gave that a whirl:

http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/5challenge2inch.jpg

Six runs, I had four misses.
Average time: 4.16 seconds
Average time on clean runs (three out of six): 4.32 seconds

Obviously, not something I would guarantee 100% hits under 5 seconds. The 2" was more challenge than I could muster tonight, that's for sure.

GJM
09-09-2011, 11:10 PM
Just back from two days moose hunting, and I carried a Scandium Smith in a chest rig as a back-up to my .375 H&H. Not sure I dare to do this drill five times, or even more than once, as my Scandium is a 329 with Garrett .44 magnum Defender loads.

l8apex
09-11-2011, 11:27 PM
Ran this drill today. Should have kept better track, but it's been a good drill to help me with the new to me, P30LS V1. Will keep better track of times next week & run it with old trusty G19.

Fastest Clean 2.74
Slowest Clean 3.04

yarco
09-14-2011, 04:34 AM
To encourage also 'not so advanced' shooters, I'll present also my results :D
I made 2 series from different carry conditions.

Gun: G26, Pearce +2 Mag Extender, Glock Tritium Sights
Ammo: MFS TFMJ 9g/139gr
Timer: Shot Timer Pro for Android

1st set - IWB
Holster: IWB Blade-Tech Phantom
Cover Garment: Polo
5 runs (3 clean), 23 hits.

Fastest Draw 2.55
Fastest Clean 4.70
Slowest Clean 4.88
Average all 4.83


2nd set - OWB
Holster: OWB Blade-Tech Injection Molded w/ paddle
Cover Garment: n/a
5 runs (4 clean), 24 hits.

Fastest Draw 2.25
Fastest Clean 4.16
Slowest Clean 4.46
Average all 4.27


Note: The drills were shot at 5m (5.5 yards) as I forgot to convert your 'proper units of measure' to mine ("Corrupt and Broken" part of the world ;)).

Little Creek
09-14-2011, 07:09 AM
Five runs clean
Average time 3.6 seconds
First shot from cover 2+ seconds
Blade-tec paddle IDPA holster
Covered by a vest
G17
W-S green fiber optic FS
115 grain WWB
Age 60+

Will try for more speed on another day.

May try G-26

JV_
09-16-2011, 10:37 AM
GermanSynergy and I ran this drill today. Both of us shoot Glock 17s from AIWB.

GS's time:
5 Iterations: 2.93s average
(4) Clean
(1) -1

JV's time:
5 Iterations: 2.94s average
(5) Clean

Al T.
09-19-2011, 07:21 PM
Ran this with a S&W 340 PD firing WWB 130 grain .38 Special loads from high and low ready. Average time was about 3.5 seconds clean. Backed up to 8 yards and had a few off the circle, though still in time and on paper.

Fun drill - shot it cold. :)

Simms65
09-23-2011, 09:38 AM
Buddy and I both ran this drill last weekend. We were both open carrying in open top leather holsters and were able to shoot the drill in 3.5-4.1 seconds clean every time. Interesting drill. We moved it to 10 yards and everything went to hell. Much more challenging at 30 ft. :)

LittleLebowski
09-23-2011, 10:36 AM
Buddy and I both ran this drill last weekend. We were both open carrying in open top leather holsters and were able to shoot the drill in 3.5-4.1 seconds clean every time. Interesting drill. We moved it to 10 yards and everything went to hell. Much more challenging at 30 ft. :)

German Synergy and I did it from concealment at 25' and like you said, it was much harder. We ended up both making the times but dropping about 4 shots outside of the circle total.

JV_
09-24-2011, 07:03 PM
I had a lot more misses than I would have liked, but it was hard to dial it back, I was lacking focus:

Gen3 17 / CCC Shaggy / Official Target

2.38 Clean
2.43 -1
2.26 Clean
2.35 -1
2.41 -1

If I was able to dial myself back to about a 2.6, I think I could do 5 clean runs. I have some things to work on.

Ga Shooter
09-24-2011, 07:48 PM
I had one of "those days" at the range today. I ran this but used only 1 target. Dropped 4 total all low center. Can't imagine why that is:mad:(whole day long today). Anyway timer was picking up people next to me (indoor range) so I par timed it and came in under 5 sec every time. Will try again later. G19 Gen 4 115 FMJ Remington. And yes erratic ejection but that is for another thread.

HeadHunter
09-29-2011, 07:40 PM
Did anyone else do it Strong Hand Only or with an Airweight? I would like to have some data besides my own.

JV_
09-29-2011, 07:41 PM
Did anyone else do it Strong Hand OnlyI'll do it this tomorrow or Sat.

ToddG
09-29-2011, 07:44 PM
HH -- for whatever it's worth, here are my results from Chris Edwards's version:


five shots 2H from concealment: 2.27, 5/5
five shots SHO from concealment: 3.65, 5/5
five shots WHO from ready: 3.52, 5/5
five shots SHO from concealment: 3.76, 5/5
five shots 2H from concealment: 2.30, 5/5


5" circle at 5yd

G17 gen4 (my everyday carry gun)
CCC Shaggy aiwb
untucked polo

Al T.
09-30-2011, 08:33 AM
HH, my 340 is a scandium S&W with the 2 inch barrel. I did not shoot it SHO.

HeadHunter
10-10-2011, 11:35 AM
I used this drill yesterday as part of the Use of Force module I was teaching in South Carolina. Out of 7 students, no one passed. This is the 2d time I have used it in a class and it's going in my standard POI now.

The members here are clearly a cut above the average shooter; but we knew that, didn't we?

guymontag
10-18-2011, 08:05 PM
To encourage also 'not so advanced' shooters, I'll present also my results :D


I'll seize the opportunity to lower the average. ;)

Walther P99, RWS 124 FMJ, Safariland 567, Large T-Shirt

In five runs, three were clean. In order: 4.32, 3.86, 3.49 (1 out), 4.03 (1 out), 3.86.
I accidentally performed a string SHO, and managed a 5.16 (1 out).

Wheeler
10-31-2011, 03:58 PM
I finally got around to trying this drill out.
Pertinent information:
Timer CED 7000 set on 3 second delay.
Pistol Ruger LCR .38+P w/ boot grips.
Ammo .38 Spl 125 grain JHP @ 900FPS (according to the Winchester load data book)
Start Position Freestyle, Low Ready

Drill 1: 5.05 all hits
Drill 2: 4.77 all hits
Drill 3: 4.45 all hits
Drill 4: 3.37 three misses (That's what I get for trying to go fast)
Drill 5: 4.36 all hits

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt86/Wheeler686/Targets/5x5x5x5drill1st.jpg

I intend to do this again. The ammo used was punishing through the LCR. My widdle hands hurt.

Wheeler

Danko
08-10-2022, 07:05 PM
I think you're right. There are likely many members here who can easily clean this drill in under 5 seconds. I've shot this drill a few times, but I'm fairly new to shooting. I don't recall where I found the drill, but my source called it the 45 drill: four elements of fives; 5 yards, 5" target, 5 shots, 5 seconds. I like the name 45 drill!