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HCM
07-18-2015, 12:47 PM
http://kxan.com/2015/07/17/georgetown-officer-suspended-for-tampering-with-colleagues-rifle/

http://kxan.com/2015/07/17/firearms-expert-calls-officers-actions-careless-and-ignorant/

A Georgetown TX Police Officer has been "indefinitely suspended" aka fired for intentionally changing the sights on another officers duty rifle to "teach him a lesson" .

I would describe his actions as reckless rather than merely careless. Good riddance.

JustOneGun
07-18-2015, 01:00 PM
http://kxan.com/2015/07/17/georgetown-officer-suspended-for-tampering-with-colleagues-rifle/

http://kxan.com/2015/07/17/firearms-expert-calls-officers-actions-careless-and-ignorant/

A Georgetown TX Police Officer has been "indefinitely suspended" aka fired for intentionally changing the sights on another officers duty rifle to "teach him a lesson" .

I would describe his actions as reckless rather than merely careless. Good riddance.


I've met a lot of people that needed a lesson. Heck, I know I've needed a lesson a time or
two. But I've never disliked someone so much that I wanted them to kill someone accidentally via a non-zeroed gun or get killed themselves. With that type of mentality a person should never have any position of authority. Get another job and get some counseling. Sheesh.

41magfan
07-18-2015, 02:00 PM
Makes you wonder what else this BOZO has done that's gone unreported and/or undiscovered. Knowing what I know about people with these character traits, these sorts of things are not isolated incidents. Sadly, another agency somewhere will likely hire him.

1slow
07-18-2015, 02:23 PM
Years ago a very serious individual told me that '' a sniper rifle should be in only two conditions:
1. locked up and only you have the key,
2. In your hands.''
His opinion was that people will mess with your gear through malice, stupidity etc.... and will never own up to having damaged it. If a hostage got killed because of this you are so screwed.
What I got from him was that if a weapon is out of your hands unsecured you do not know if it is still as you had it zeroed etc.... and must check it when you get it back.
These conditions may not be possible but are a worthy goal in my opinion.

The officer in question needs the equivalent of a dishonorable discharge, never to be in authority again.

Totem Polar
07-18-2015, 03:12 PM
Man alive, what a warped mindset. That's not unlike sabotaging the brakes on a car because you don't like the way someone parks.

Good riddance.

S Jenks
07-18-2015, 03:26 PM
Had this happen with one of our department's patrol rifles (pool guns). I am guessing it was the result of ignorance/stupidity in our case. This was when we ran only irons; the sights had been drifted to the point they shot approximately one foot left at 50 yards.

Intentional? Yeah, good riddance.

LittleLebowski
07-18-2015, 03:30 PM
That guy has a pattern.

LSP552
07-18-2015, 07:36 PM
I can't imagine someone being stupid enough to do that. At the same time, who the hell drives off and leaves their duty rifle at the range?

MD7305
07-18-2015, 08:23 PM
For agencies that have pool guns or fleet vehicles containing guns, what can you do to combat this? My agency has fleet cars and we shoot anywhere from 2-4 times a year and zero is confirmed, etc. we haven't had an issue yet but I'm sure it'll come eventually. I'd push for personally owned guns but that's an uphill battle.

BehindBlueI's
07-18-2015, 09:50 PM
For agencies that have pool guns or fleet vehicles containing guns, what can you do to combat this? My agency has fleet cars and we shoot anywhere from 2-4 times a year and zero is confirmed, etc. we haven't had an issue yet but I'm sure it'll come eventually. I'd push for personally owned guns but that's an uphill battle.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but is there an agency out there with AR-15s as pool guns? I get shotguns, but an AR needs to be zeroed to the individual shooter when running irons. Optics are much more forgiving, but still who isn't running at least back up irons?

ssb
07-18-2015, 10:40 PM
For agencies that have pool guns or fleet vehicles containing guns, what can you do to combat this? My agency has fleet cars and we shoot anywhere from 2-4 times a year and zero is confirmed, etc. we haven't had an issue yet but I'm sure it'll come eventually. I'd push for personally owned guns but that's an uphill battle.

Perhaps paint witness marks on the windage/elevation adjustments? It's not the be-all-end-all, but it would be a quick reference to see if something's obviously been tampered with.

ST911
07-18-2015, 11:14 PM
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but is there an agency out there with AR-15s as pool guns? I get shotguns, but an AR needs to be zeroed to the individual shooter when running irons.

It's actually quite common. It's definitely not a first choice, but it's better than no rifles at all.

JodyH
07-19-2015, 07:04 AM
USBP has pool carbines and shotguns. You should see the mix of optics and accessories the pool carbines have. Eotech, ACOG, Aimpoint, irons, lights, no lights, 1 point slings, 2 point slings, 3 point slings, no slings, 10"-20" barrels, collapsible and fixed stocks...

LittleLebowski
07-19-2015, 09:17 AM
USBP has pool carbines and shotguns. You should see the mix of optics and accessories the pool carbines have. Eotech, ACOG, Aimpoint, irons, lights, no lights, 1 point slings, 2 point slings, 3 point slings, no slings, 10"-20" barrels, collapsible and fixed stocks...

Someone should write an article about this :)

http://www.gunnuts.net/2014/10/24/us-border-patrol-deadlining-rifles-at-a-rate-that-is-detrimental-to-officer-safety/

http://www.gunnuts.net/2014/11/18/us-border-patrol-rifle-article-part-ii/

BehindBlueI's
07-19-2015, 09:26 AM
It's actually quite common. It's definitely not a first choice, but it's better than no rifles at all.


USBP has pool carbines and shotguns. You should see the mix of optics and accessories the pool carbines have. Eotech, ACOG, Aimpoint, irons, lights, no lights, 1 point slings, 2 point slings, 3 point slings, no slings, 10"-20" barrels, collapsible and fixed stocks...

Wow, that would suck for me as every M-16 or AR-15 I've ever been issued required me to crank the rear sight pretty far left to be zero'd with the irons.

Beat Trash
07-19-2015, 10:07 AM
I am in an agency of about 1,100 officers, out of which about 40% are Patrol Rifle trained. While personally owned/Departmentally approved rifles can be used, most officers are too cheap to spend their own money and use the agency owned pool rifles. Each unit of assignment and/or District has 4-6 guns to check out.

When I last had the collateral duty of being the superior in charge of a District Armory, I took a paint marker and painted a "witness mark" on the front sight post/ A-frame and on the windage knob /carry handle for the rear sight. That way you could instantly tell if the sights had been messed with.

Having a pool rifle with easily adjustable sights is like putting a sign up saying, "Wet Paint, Do Not Touch". You know that some idiot will touch the wet paint.

LittleLebowski
07-19-2015, 10:24 AM
Same officer.

http://www.statesman.com/news/news/crime-law/georgetown-police-officer-filmed-pushing-tripping-/nfd25/

Poconnor
07-19-2015, 11:44 AM
My department's rifle and shotguns are pool guns. ERT has issued individual weapons. Initially I was concerned with zeroing the pool AR-15s. But I have observed that zeroed is zeroed; especially if everyone gets their nose on the charging handle. There are differences in shot placement but not enough to for them to spend another 75 grand for additional rifles. It comes down to pool rifles or no rifles. As far as the officer in this thread; I shuddered to imagine what else he has done. Sounds like a Total ass clown

BehindBlueI's
07-19-2015, 11:59 AM
But I have observed that zeroed is zeroed; especially if everyone gets their nose on the charging handle. There are differences in shot placement but not enough to for them to spend another 75 grand for additional rifles.

At what distances do you qualify? Torso shots and head shots? Optics or irons or both?

Lon
07-19-2015, 12:40 PM
Pool rifles are the norm in my AO. We haven't had any issues with center mass shots out to 150 yards with them. Head shot %'s at 50+ yards are lower. But more of that seems to be shooter error than rifle zero problems. We just had some training last week and were shooting rifles at 50-75 yards. Most of the guys were able to take effective head shots at 75. Some struggled. Body shots were not a problem.

Our current patrol rifles are 12-13 years old. They're Rock River CAR UTE's. I can honestly say I've been impressed with how they have held up. That said, I'm trying to get them to at least buy us new uppers this year or next and put Aimpoint PROs on all of them. The Chief is on board, just have to find the money.

BehindBlueI's
07-19-2015, 12:46 PM
Pool rifles are the norm in my AO. We haven't had any issues with center mass shots out to 150 yards with them. Head shot %'s at 50+ yards are lower. But more of that seems to be shooter error than rifle zero problems. We just had some training last week and were shooting rifles at 50-75 yards. Most of the guys were able to take effective head shots at 75. Some struggled. Body shots were not a problem.

Our current patrol rifles are 12-13 years old. They're Rock River CAR UTE's. I can honestly say I've been impressed with how they have held up. That said, I'm trying to get them to at least buy us new uppers this year or next and put Aimpoint PROs on all of them. The Chief is on board, just have to find the money.

Interesting. There were a bunch of optics available through DRMO if you guys use that program. We outfitted a bunch of our rifles with surplus aimpoints. I was skeptical of the goose neck mounts on the GI uppers, but I was wrong. I thought they would be unstable and easy to jar like the old goose necks were, but these are rock solid and I've had mine for about 2 years now, thousands of rounds, riding around in my trunk, etc. and no issues

Lon
07-19-2015, 12:53 PM
The problem now is that most of the UTE rifles we have have a jacked up hybrid upper receiver so any red dot is not gonna work. We keep our rifles in a vertical dual mount between the seats. The other mount has a LL shotgun. Not enough room behind those UTE's to accommodate a dot. Hence the new upper request.

3633

Dagga Boy
07-20-2015, 10:01 AM
This is a guy with no impulse control. This is a very bad combination as a personality characteristic with a police officer. I have seen these in the past where these same people are also lauded as hero's for rushing into dangerous situations or taking stupid risks because they do not consider consequences with their 14 year old brain response and then a bunch of the brass is shocked when the same person is tripping kids or screwing around with people's rifles with zero thought to the consequences of their actions.

Always interesting to watch the brass's reaction to their little super star who winds up in a scandal and "nobody saw it coming".....except everyone who had to work with the idiot everyday in the field.

LittleLebowski
07-20-2015, 10:11 AM
Pool rifles are the norm in my AO. We haven't had any issues with center mass shots out to 150 yards with them. Head shot %'s at 50+ yards are lower. But more of that seems to be shooter error than rifle zero problems. We just had some training last week and were shooting rifles at 50-75 yards. Most of the guys were able to take effective head shots at 75. Some struggled. Body shots were not a problem.

Our current patrol rifles are 12-13 years old. They're Rock River CAR UTE's. I can honestly say I've been impressed with how they have held up. That said, I'm trying to get them to at least buy us new uppers this year or next and put Aimpoint PROs on all of them. The Chief is on board, just have to find the money.

Did your armorer have to stake gas keys or anything like that?

Poconnor
07-20-2015, 02:53 PM
We only have a 100 yard range. We shoot the ar's at 100 but the quals start at 75 and work in from there