Are the Trolls taking over the internet?

[cclaxton]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/we-cannot-let-the-internet-trolls-win/2015/07/16/91b1a2d2-2b17-11e5-bd33-395c05608059_story.html?tid=pm_pop_b

Cody

[Peally]

The internet has been a focal point for the shit of humanity for a long time, if they won they won before I was born.

[Paul]

Boohoo poor Ellen Pao, trolls on the internet were ok with her until she ended up in their cross hairs. Reddit didn't care about revenge porn until they found that they were incurring serious civil and criminal liability by hosting it. She can play victim all she wants, but she's just as bad as the trolls she laments.

Trolls took over the internet a long time ago, it's a bastion for the highly passive aggressive behavior by the socially inept.

[Edwin]

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--SrCW48LM--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/17xhq5sfuc8fpjpg.jpg

[RJ]

The internet has been a focal point for the shit of humanity for a long time, if they won they won before I was born.

We had trolls ever since the days of compuserve and 'bulletin boards'.

IIRC this started sometime after I left college in 1983. It hasn't tailed off since, near as I can tell.

[Mr_White]

Anyone know if Game Stop has Battletoads?

[Hatchetman]

Before there was any sort of online contact to be made there were telephones. Back when caller ID was the stuff of science fiction trolls would pull numbers out of the phonebook to harass. Though a lot more intimate than trolling these days, it was a retail affair rather than the wholesale wiener wiggling found today. The dynamic is the same, just the party line has grown larger.

[45dotACP]

Honestly, the internet has always been nothing more than an interconnected bathroom stall for people to scribble on...

[JHC]

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--SrCW48LM--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/17xhq5sfuc8fpjpg.jpg

Wow. Nice.

[Totem Polar]

I hate to break it to Ellen, but trolls are beginning to exert their influence within upper admin levels of medicine, LE, academia, the entertainment industry, politics and a few other human endeavors too numerous to list here, as well.;)

[Glenn E. Meyer]

There was book Psychology of the Internet in the early 2000's that documented such behavior in newsgroups, games, mailing lists, etc. Nothing new. As far as the fancy outlets for academics, science, humanities, etc. - unless they are strictly moderated as folks above said - you get crap on the walls.

[Default.mp3]

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--SrCW48LM--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/17xhq5sfuc8fpjpg.jpg
Ha, that was the first thing I thought of. And to think that Penny Arcade published that way back in 2004-03-19. I'm guessing Pao has never played an online FPS or fighting game.

Seriously, what else is new? While the Internet and how it influences society writ large as a platform is definitely something I would cautiously term as being "novel", the fact that normal people can be assholes when given anonymity and no real consequences for their actions is, as many here have noted, simply part of human nature.

[Mr_White]

Is this place supposed to be a good shooting website? My budy referred me here, I want a .45. His dad was in the military and shot all the pistols expertly, now he works as a bounty hunter tracker. Remember that country musucian who got whacked? nuff said. Anyway if anyone has any advice I would appropriate it unless your a idiot or a shitcock. Thx. Also how do i go about getting my conceald carry.

[orionz06]

Is this place supposed to be a good shooting website? My budy referred me here, I want a .45. His dad was in the military and shot all the pistols expertly, now he works as a bounty hunter tracker. Remember that country musucian who got whacked? nuff said. Anyway if anyone has any advice I would appropriate it unless your a idiot or a shitcock. Thx. Also how do i go about getting my conceald carry.

n00b! GTFO!




On a serious note there are tons of trolls but being a member of 42+ forums and checking a ton daily the same stuff is apparent on all of them. Assholes are worse and the whiners are worse. Certain moderation styles handle this better than others and certain communities handle it better than others. Not sure if it's chicken before the egg though.

[Kyle Reese]

Is this place supposed to be a good shooting website? My budy referred me here, I want a .45. His dad was in the military and shot all the pistols expertly, now he works as a bounty hunter tracker. Remember that country musucian who got whacked? nuff said. Anyway if anyone has any advice I would appropriate it unless your a idiot or a shitcock. Thx. Also how do i go about getting my conceald carry.

All you need is a 1911 fourtee fahve. Don't even need to carry a round chambered. Whatever you do, don't muss with a holster. Carry it in your pocket, unless you OC. In that case, you need an amorphous sausage sack (the floppier the better) or SERPA.

[trailrunner]

Cry me a river.

She takes charge of a website known as a free-for-all, and then complains about it? The anarchy is the primary reason it is so popular. Duh. She strikes me as a person who always blames someone else for her problems.

Trolls have been around for a long time. Some the usenet groups I used to visit in the 90s were not well behaved at all. Some of the bicycling groups I used to visit were some of the worst behaved (damn leg shavers!).

[JAD]

Ellen reminds me of the uncle of a German friend of mine.
"Mein Onkel starb in Auschwitz."
"Wie schrecklich!"
"Ja, fiel er aus einem Wachturm."

[voodoo_man]

Ahh reddit drama...

Basically the worst of the internet, jammed together in one place and allowed to self-moderate.

[JodyH]

Basically the worst of the internet, jammed together in one place and allowed to self-moderate.
It's truly a thing of beauty.

[Hatchetman]

Some early trolling:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbI-fDzUJXI&ab_channel=MontyPython

[ford.304]

The only thing's that changed is the number of people who *aren't* anonymous.

When everyone's just a screen name, you can ignore the trolls. When only the trolls are anonymous, you get people afraid to leave their house or publish anything.

I amazes me that people grow up on the internet now without becoming immune to this stuff. It's as though I grew up in this weird window where you knew everyone online was shit and you just packed your waders, where you kept a firewall between your online and your "real" life. Go back twenty more years and everyone was used to face to face contact. Now your real life and your online life are one and the same.

Until it gets to swatting/doxxing, I don't think the trolls are a problem. They get downvoted away and you can ignore them. If they progress to making real threats (as in threats they aren't just internet bravado with no way to back them up) sic the police on them. Until then just remember that they're performing for their own audience of other idiots, not for you.

[cclaxton]

The problem is that there are a number of serious forums and serious sites, and of course serious businesses that are attempting to use the internet and their hosted sites to support legitimate and beneficial activities. This forum is a good example of one started to provide quality information about pistol tactics, pistols, their operation and the issues associated with pistols. And, it has been pretty successful at achieving that goal, and from the things I have seen, required a lot of moderation in some cases.

Reddit is clearly in a league of its own, but the problem of trolls seems to infect just about every site except those that are very secure, have no forum, and strictly control access.

If trolls were quarantined off into their own sector, would the all become hackers just to get their fix of trolling?

Cody

[orionz06]

Weren't most instance where it appeared to require moderation here really just two adults sticking to their guns rather than trolling?


Some people need to harden the eff up a little and realize it's the internet. Some people can't take the online tone thing very well and get their panties in a knot. Other forums where folks have met each other, and this forum where many people have met each other, do pretty well with tone.

[Hatchetman]

Weren't most instance where it appeared to require moderation here really just two adults sticking to their guns rather than trolling?

I don't think so. Trolls tend to pick at scabs, seek to elicit strong reactions, try to retain control over the terms of the debate, equivocate, rely on fallacious argument, toss gas on fires, and so on. As I've said elsewhere, when I worked a telephone hotline I found that most trolls were people who hadn't figured out how to have productive relationships with others IRL (in real life). Solitary confinement is a punishment because humans are hardwired to interact with others. Trolls are unable to successfully do so with people IRL, at least in a manner that scratches their pathologic itches, and so they depend on often anonymous, virtual relationships they can more tightly control. Most trolls learned long ago they don't have the tools to have pleasant interactions with folks, and so get their interpersonal strokes instead by finely honing the ability to inspire unpleasant interactions among others. Once you know what to look for it's not difficult to recognize these sorts of patterns, ID trolls, and do whatever makes the most sense for a particular forum.

[cclaxton]

I like to think of Trolls as adolescents. All the associated immature behaviors such as pranking, bullying, lying, insulting, obfuscating, false accusations, troublemaking, etc. all come from an immature psychology. When adults enter the room and start telling the kids to straighten up or get out, they do straighten up, or get out or ramp up the bad behavior until they are thrown out.

Sometimes people can mistake postings as trolling when they are not: just because someone enters a forum/room where the prevailing positions are A and B, and someone comes in and says that A or B is wrong and Z is the proper position, people think he/she is just trying to make trouble and disturb the flock...and the accusation of "He's a Troll" becomes a way to dismiss the arguments or dismiss the individual or even ban the individual. For a forum that invites serious dialogue that is immature as well.

Sometimes A-types just have to be the top dog in the forum and will do anything to get there. Sometimes a person's personality is mistaken as trolling but they are just really amped-up.

My point is this: Before labeling someone a troll, get the facts right and investigate the circumstances and test your theory first. We don't want to run off good members just because we don't agree with him/her or misinterpret their intent.

Cody

[orionz06]

That's for sure. People jump the gun to call people out as trolls.

[Mr_White]

but being a member of 42+ forums

Dang that's a lot of forums!

[BWT]

The Internet?

"Do not reprove a scoffer, or he will hate you, Reprove a wise man and he will love you." Proverbs 9:8

"A fool does not delight in understanding, but only in revealing his own mind." Proverbs 18:2

This has been around long before the Internet.

I'm not meaning to sound self-righteous but she has just observed what people talk about in all circles. Even the ones she doesn't like.

It's the risk of liberty.

[cclaxton]

Yikes.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/reign-of-terror-online-trolls-destroy-a-virginia-familys-offline-life/2015/07/20/a467f9bc-19ba-11e5-93b7-5eddc056ad8a_story.html?hpid=z2
Cody

[MichaelD]

In case you didn't know, Cody, 'SWATting' is not an uncommon phenomenon in the online gaming world. There are a lotta jerks out there.

[LOKNLOD]

It's the risk of liberty.

Many problems, and "problems", we face today as a society are. The percentage of people growing all too happy to give up liberty to them, is unfortunately increasing and those in power are all too happy to seize more where they can.

[cclaxton]

Many problems, and "problems", we face today as a society are. The percentage of people growing all too happy to give up liberty to them, is unfortunately increasing and those in power are all too happy to seize more where they can.
Without sacrificing Liberty, can we regain a better sense of socialization and community?
It seems to me many of these people just need better mentors, more community involvement, more socialization.

Socialization is the process by which children and adults learn from others. We begin learning from others during the early days of life; and most people continue their social learning all through life (unless some mental or physical disability slows or stops the learning process).

For instance: requiring all teens to learn self-defense in High School.
Requiring all High School graduates to go through basic military training.
Having all new shooters work with a senior mentor, like a apprentice.

These things help to socialize people's minds and emotions. It seems to be missing from modern society.
Cody

[BaiHu]

The problem with modern day socialization is that it's mainly anonymous or semi-anonymous where the "adults/mods" in the "room" are rarely social outside of "the net".

These leads to extremes like ultra PC or flame war stuff. In the end, it's the same: reduction of the individual and reverence of a capricious and faceless group.

It's really disturbing and something I try to combat by teaching kids to be responsible for themselves and preserve/protect their individual space, rights and freedom. Idealistic? Yes, but it's a start.

[orionz06]

These leads to extremes like ultra PC or flame war stuff.


Or simple differing opinions being labeled as trolling. This happens often on forums.




Sort of a tangent but not... This is one of the reasons why the P-F classes are pretty cool. Not sure if it is intentional for this specific reason but having a large group of forum members meet each other allows for tone to be understood. People tend to act a lot less bitchy when they can establish some sorta tone.

In the same respect just hearing the radio interviews of Daryl and Chuck were enough to help me change what was a negative opinion on how they posted. And that's just adding the verbal aspect of communication.

[s0nspark]

the fact that normal people can be assholes when given anonymity and no real consequences for their actions is, as many here have noted, simply part of human nature.

Not sure if the label fits Ellen but it seems to me that Progressive-types have almost no real grasp on human nature.

[s0nspark]

Some the usenet groups I used to visit in the 90s were not well behaved at all.

Oh lord, thanks for the flashbacks! I think I still have some burns from those days...

[LSP972]

Oh lord, thanks for the flashbacks! I think I still have some burns from those days...

Yeah, but they were fun to read.

.