HK USP 45 field pistol

[Poconnor]

I really regret selling my USP compact!!!

[Dagga Boy]

This afternoon, I shot a minty DA/SA USP Compact 9mm that I got from a PF member. It will go to HK for a LEM trigger, but I was excited to shoot it.

Short review is that it retains the many excellent qualities of the USP full size but in a smaller size and with a faster cycling slide. Right off, I was .02-.03 faster on Bill drills, but it maintained excellent accuracy on eight inch steel out to 35 yards. The USP C is very much equivalent to a G19, and in my hands a better performer than a P2000.

I then shot a VP9 with a GGI trigger, that I also got from a PF member. Incredible trigger. I had to almost fight with my wife to pry it out of her hands. A lower 48 combo of a USP Compact 9 for EDC and a VP9 with a skookum trigger for gaming, would be a pretty compelling package. Add in the USP FS .45 and HK45C for Super ammo,, and you have a North American do it all package.

One of my favorite off duty guns for a lot of years was one of the first USP 9Compacts. Had number 184 in the first week they hit the US. Carrying a full size USP 45 on duty, it was a great front AIWB gun right from the get go.

I am just glad GJM is finally getting the 90's right all over again. Now that he has dumped the Glocks for Hk's, I would imagine the Toyota Tacoma's will be getting traded in on new Raptors.....:p.

[GJM]

As I told you on the phone, 80 mph exactly is the Raptor's exact happy zone for running over tires and rims. I would be glad to provide the tire and rim if you provide the Raptor for further testing and envelope expansion.

[hlb14]

Short review is that it retains the many excellent qualities of the USP full size but in a smaller size and with a faster cycling slide. Right off, I was .02-.03 faster on Bill drills, but it maintained excellent accuracy on eight inch steel out to 35 yards. The USP C is very much equivalent to a G19, and in my hands a better performer than a P2000.

Does the performance and versatility of the compact seem to make the full size redundant?

[GJM]

Does the performance and versatility of the compact seem to make the full size redundant?

Possibly for lower 48 EDC, but the USP FS .45 is still king of the hill in my book, as a field gun.

[GJM]

I was discussing Super with Bill Wilson, and asked him about his experience shooting hogs on his ranch with a handgun. He says he generally just uses his Beretta 92 carry gun and Barnes 115 ammo. Says it drops them like a .308.

[Nephrology]

I was discussing Super with Bill Wilson, and asked him about his experience shooting hogs on his ranch with a handgun. He says he generally just uses his Beretta 92 carry gun and Barnes 115 ammo. Says it drops them like a .308.

Interesting.

[OnionsAndDragons]

I was discussing Super with Bill Wilson, and asked him about his experience shooting hogs on his ranch with a handgun. He says he generally just uses his Beretta 92 carry gun and Barnes 115 ammo. Says it drops them like a .308.

Damn.

Actually, double-damn that one.

[JAD]

I was discussing Super with Bill Wilson, and asked him about his experience shooting hogs on his ranch with a handgun. He says he generally just uses his Beretta 92 carry gun and Barnes 115 ammo. Says it drops them like a .308.

I've seen mr. Wilson shoot. Shot placement may be a factor.

[Dave Williams]

There's a great Kyle Lamb video on YouTube of him shooting a hog with a 9mm.

[GJM]

There's a great Kyle Lamb video on YouTube of him shooting a hog with a 9mm.

Link?

[BCL]

Link?

Probably this one:
https://youtu.be/CXU1GkTj48c?t=2m22s

[MSparks909]

While I haven't shot a hog with a handgun (yet) I have shot several deer with a 9mm. Not on purpose but right place right time kind of deals (checking game cameras or tending to tree stands). All but one have been one shot kills. Shot placement is everything. Shot a doe last week at ~20ish yards with my carry ammo out of my P2000. Speer 124+P. Go for the neck or head.

[MSparks909]

Not trying to hijack too much but this is the best video I've seen so far on handgun hunting, specifically hog hunting. This hunter used a 10mm but same principles can apply for other calibers (with more care when using a 9mm). Freedom Munitions 180 grain XTP out of a P220. This particular bullet's performance was surprising. Give it a watch.


http://youtu.be/zrKyvzSI_ns

[GJM]

At the end of my practice session today, I transitioned to the USP C 9. This one is still DA/SA, but I love the way the USP C shoots. Far easier to shoot than a P2000 in my hands. Wearing my "Universal" rig, which is a Safariland Pro Fit and two Ghost mag pouches, which allows me to use it for a bunch of different pistols.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQgEmXf-950

[SteveB]

Picked up a used VP40 this week. I've found the VP9 really easy to shoot well and was curious about the 40 as a field pistol. With factory sights and Winchester 165 grain ball, it groups well, but shoots about 2" low at 25:

11492

[OnionsAndDragons]

SteveB,

That's almost exactly what my VP9 group from yesterday looked like at 20-25. I really wanna try some Dawson's on it I think.

[Chuck Haggard]

Not trying to hijack too much but this is the best video I've seen so far on handgun hunting, specifically hog hunting. This hunter used a 10mm but same principles can apply for other calibers (with more care when using a 9mm). Freedom Munitions 180 grain XTP out of a P220. This particular bullet's performance was surprising. Give it a watch.


http://youtu.be/zrKyvzSI_ns

For the love of baby Odin, someone teach that man how to grip a pistol.

[GJM]

I picked up a NIB, V7 LEM USP C 9, that showed up on GB. A few observations, after my first range session with it.

My first rounds fired were with PMC 115, and it wouldn't run. Lawman and my reloads would function. After 100 rounds, the PMC would run, so apparently there is a break in period for at least this HK pistol -- something that has been debated.

It sseemed to shoot POA/POI at 25 yards.

Standard LEM is a lot harder for me to shoot fast than light LEM. Physically takes more effort to press the trigger, and takes more mental concentration. I could shoot things like Garcia dot drills fine, but Bill drills at 7 were slow. This one will go back to the mothership for light LEM, but if forced to choose between standard LEM and Stock DA/DA in the USP C, I would take variant 3 DA/SA every time.

The USP C 9 is a great sized pistol for carry.

[SteveB]

Picked up a used VP40 this week. I've found the VP9 really easy to shoot well and was curious about the 40 as a field pistol. With factory sights and Winchester 165 grain ball, it groups well, but shoots about 2" low at 25:

11492

Update: With Federal 180 ball and drive the dot POA=POI at 25.

[Dagga Boy]

Update: With Federal 180 ball and drive the dot POA=POI at 25.

Weirdly HK actually got a hold of me during development of the VP40 in reference to setting the guns up for current LE loadings. I called Doc and put together a list of the best LE loads at the time. It looks like they did regulate towards the heavier LE loads.....which I think is good.

[GJM]

Right now, I have a USP Compact 9 in regular DA/SA and one with regular LEM. My other USP Compact 9 is still at HK getting the good trigger put in. I have been able to do a fair amount of shooting with the regular LEM and DA/SA models. My preference from worst to best is regular LEM, then DA/SA, then light/hybrid/match/skookum LEM. I can shoot regular LEM but only much slower than the other triggers. I have also been shooting an OEM grey VP9. In my hands, the VP9 shoots circles around all the other HK triggers, and if pure shooting was the sole criteria, it is what I would be carrying in lower 48. I keep wanting to drop my VP9 in the sand, but so far have resisted.

[GJM]

One more thing. Today, I grabbed a spare P2000/USP C 13 round magazine, after switching out my ten rounders I carried this morning flying over CA. Went to insert the magazine and it would not seat. Looked fine, other mag worked, and couldn't figure out what was wrong. Tried it in another USP C, and still no go. Closer inspection showed there was a P2000sk ledge floor plate on this magazine. Even though it was indistinguishable from a regular full size P2000/USP C mag, the floor plate was marked P200sk, and had some different dimension. I don't recall using this mag before, and believe but am not absolutely certain, it came in this form. Beware.

[GJM]

It turns out, a USP C magazine went through the wash in my front pant's pocket. Took it to the range this afternoon, to test it. Worked fine. Not sure if it went through on the cold or warm water cycle.

My light LEM lower hasn't made it back from HK yet, so I have been carrying a DA/SA lower for the last month. My first shot is .10-.20 slower with that heavy DA. Might mean something gaming, or on a test like Gabe's, but I kind of like that heavy trigger for EDC.

[OlongJohnson]

It turns out, a USP C magazine went through the wash in my front pant's pocket. Took it to the range this afternoon, to test it. Worked fine. Not sure if it went through on the cold or warm water cycle.

Ammo included?

[GJM]

Nope, just the magazine.

[JHC]

It turns out, a USP C magazine went through the wash in my front pant's pocket. Took it to the range this afternoon, to test it. Worked fine. Not sure if it went through on the cold or warm water cycle.

My light LEM lower hasn't made it back from HK yet, so I have been carrying a DA/SA lower for the last month. My first shot is .10-.20 slower with that heavy DA. Might mean something gaming, or on a test like Gabe's, but I kind of like that heavy trigger for EDC.

I do like my USP's TDA set up. I put it on the timer from ready and for a 7 yard IDPA headbox hit, I wasn't giving anything significant up to a G19. Over like ten runs each, the times overlapped a lot. Photo finish.

[CoGT3]

GJM, have you ever tried your USP 9/40s in the USP 45 JM holsters? Have both a 9 and 45. Given the little cyber sale was going to order up 2 OWB holsters, one with and without X300. Was hoping I could order both for the 45 and still use them with the 9 also.

And BTW, just changed my 9 from the match trigger to LEM hybrid. Love it. Especially getting the control level off, always got in my way of a high grip. Ordered parts to switch the 45 over.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[BCL]

Not GJM, but I can confirm the FS 9/40 work well in the FS 45 AIWB holster. Haven't tried the OWB, but imagine it would work just as well.

[CoGT3]

Not GJM, but I can confirm the FS 9/40 work well in the FS 45 AIWB holster. Haven't tried the OWB, but imagine it would work just as well.

Awesome. Order placed.

Figured it would, 45 just a little longer and taller in grip.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[hlb14]

Thought some might like to know the 45 Expert is available for pre-order.

http://www.ammobros.com

[BCL]

Thought some might like to know the 45 Expert is available for pre-order.

http://www.ammobros.com

It says the full price is $999 plus tax. Is that in addition to the $500 deposit? or does it include the deposit? If it's the latter, that is a steal.

[Exiledviking]

That is smoking deal. Anyone know if the regular Trijicon USP FS sights will have the proper POA/POI with the .45 USP Expert? I'm not a big fan of adjustable nor all black sights.

[GJM]

That is smoking deal. Anyone know if the regular Trijicon USP FS sights will have the proper POA/POI with the .45 USP Expert? I'm not a big fan of adjustable nor all black sights.

On my 9mm Expert, I replaced the .275 black front sight with a .235 x 100 Dawson fiber, and that combination is very satisfactory. It also allows me to lower the rear sight considerably. I really like the adjustable rear, as it gives me an exact zero.

Yes, as mentioned above, the USP 9/40 fits in a JM George AIWB USP 45 FS holster.

Agreed, removing the thumb safety on a USP C or FS allows you to get a higher grip on the pistol.

[OlongJohnson]

It says the full price is $999 plus tax. Is that in addition to the $500 deposit? or does it include the deposit? If it's the latter, that is a steal.

With the Elites earlier in the year, they charged the $500 up front and the balance of the $999 plus freight when it shipped.

[Exiledviking]

GJM, sir, thank you for this very informative thread.
I have a V3 P2000 that I shoot better consistently than just about any other handgun (CZ SP-01 is the only one that is an equal) and after reading your thread along with other threads regarding the light LEM I'm seriously looking at picking up another 9mm HK P2000 or USP and trying out the lighter (5 to 6 lbs) LEM. I saw your recent post where you mentioned being comfortable with using a regular DA/SA HK trigger. My question for you is whether you find that the lighter LEM is close enough to the DA/SA trigger that you can switch back and forth easily?
Also, do you find that the lighter LEM requires you to stay familiar with it? I hope that makes sense as I'm having a hard time finding the right words.

[GJM]

Light LEM on a USP is essentially a long travel SA trigger.

From a pure shooting perspective, the downside to an HK DA/SA trigger is the very heavy DA initial pull. If that doesn't bother you, LEM might not offer you much advantage.

[OnionsAndDragons]

GJM, sir, thank you for this very informative thread.
I have a V3 P2000 that I shoot better consistently than just about any other handgun (CZ SP-01 is the only one that is an equal) and after reading your thread along with other threads regarding the light LEM I'm seriously looking at picking up another 9mm HK P2000 or USP and trying out the lighter (5 to 6 lbs) LEM. I saw your recent post where you mentioned being comfortable with using a regular DA/SA HK trigger. My question for you is whether you find that the lighter LEM is close enough to the DA/SA trigger that you can switch back and forth easily?
Also, do you find that the lighter LEM requires you to stay familiar with it? I hope that makes sense as I'm having a hard time finding the right words.

You really can't know if LEM works for you unless you try it for a while.

The USP DA/SA is significantly better than every other HK set up for same, save the HK45. If I were you, I'd get a USP or USPc in light LEM and a couple springs to play with. Worst case, you don't like the LEM and I guarantee you someone here would trade you their DA/SA parts plus some cash for your LEM parts. I really don't think you can lose here if you are honestly in the market for a new HK.

[GJM]

A few folks have told me they like the USP FS in 9, but it seems to big relative to other options in 9. I happened to have my USP 9 FS and a VP9 out together, and it is amazing how close they are in size.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/IMG_5094_zpsmrrng1vp.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/IMG_5094_zpsmrrng1vp.jpg.html)

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/IMG_5093_zpsadgvlako.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/IMG_5093_zpsadgvlako.jpg.html)

[SLG]

As you know, I'm a dyed in the wool hammer man. As of today, if I had to choose, I would carry the VP9 over the USP9.

[BobM]

If a VP45 comes out, would it be considered as suitable a field pistol as the USP?

[LSP552]

And I'm wondering how suitable a stainless P220 would be as a super launcher?

[SLG]

And I'm wondering how suitable a stainless P220 would be as a super launcher?

I could be completely off base, but i imagine it would not work very well. Seems like the stainless frames would not take it that well, and the slide velocity, even with 45 +P seems on the faster side to me.

[OlongJohnson]

There's a whole thread from earlier this year about stainless vs aluminum classic Sigs. The frame itself should last OK, but in .45, the all-steel ones go through takedown levers considerably faster than the aluminum frames. Even if resprung for .45 Super, you'd probably go through those even faster. Stronger takedown levers have been made, but are no longer available from Sig.

[GJM]

As you know, I'm a dyed in the wool hammer man. As of today, if I had to choose, I would carry the VP9 over the USP9.

How come?


If a VP45 comes out, would it be considered as suitable a field pistol as the USP?

To be determined.

Right now, the USP FS and HK45C combo do all I need, are vetted by me and others, and I have them plus support gear.

[Exiledviking]

You really can't know if LEM works for you unless you try it for a while.

The USP DA/SA is significantly better than every other HK set up for same, save the HK45. If I were you, I'd get a USP or USPc in light LEM and a couple springs to play with. Worst case, you don't like the LEM and I guarantee you someone here would trade you their DA/SA parts plus some cash for your LEM parts. I really don't think you can lose here if you are honestly in the market for a new HK.
Well, thanks to GJM and all of you other enablers I have a V2 LEM P2000 coming that I found lightly used for a smoking deal. Before you protest regarding going with a P2000, that's the only (near) full-size 9mm HK on the "Safe Handgun" approved roster in California and thus the least expensive way to try a HK LEM. Can't wait to run it and see how I like the LEM trigger. I'll be ordering a V3 hammer spring and a reduced power FPBS to experiment with.

[pastaslinger]

Thought some might like to know the 45 Expert is available for pre-order.

http://www.ammobros.com

I hope this is imported on the scale of the USP expert 9mm's... I may not have the funds now but definitely want one

[LSP552]

I could be completely off base, but i imagine it would not work very well. Seems like the stainless frames would not take it that well, and the slide velocity, even with 45 +P seems on the faster side to me.

Thanks, and I expect you are correct. I remember the threads from John on the stainless issues breaking takedown levers. Just not an HK fan and looking for alternatives. For dinking around in the woods, maybe there isn't one:)

[SLG]

Thanks, and I expect you are correct. I remember the threads from John on the stainless issues breaking takedown levers. Just not an HK fan and looking for alternatives. For dinking around in the woods, maybe there isn't one:)

I am convinced that the USP 45 is the best pistol for woods defense, but I am not convinced that the ammo available will work measurably better than the same bullets in 45 acp or +P. A 220 with your favorite bullet would likely be just fine. If it was intelligently altered via recoil spring weight/hammer/mainspring/flashlight/maybe something else? I imagine it would hold up to limited amounts of 45super just fine.

[Exiledviking]

Please do not put a beating on me for this one; but I recall the Ruger P90 was originally designed for the 10mm cartridge and thus was over-built for the .45 ACP chambering. Perhaps an alternative for hot +P ACP or Super 45.

[GJM]

Please do not put a beating on me for this one; but I recall the Ruger P90 was originally designed for the 10mm cartridge and thus was over-built for the .45 ACP chambering. Perhaps an alternative for hot +P ACP or Super 45.

I would rather take my chances with bear spray, than be seen carrying a Ruger semi-auto in the field. :)

[Hi-Point Aficionado]

I've enjoyed every Ruger DA/SA I've ever played with. But the only one I'd spend my own money on would be one of the old prison contract DAO nine millies for fun.

[El Cid]

Thought some might like to know the 45 Expert is available for pre-order.

http://www.ammobros.com

Damn you! I have Xmas gifts to buy so I'll pretend I didn't see this. Lol!

Oh... does anyone know if the Trijicon HD's fit the Expert? Their sight says the Tactical but I don't know if the rear dovetail is the same.

[flux]

Forgive my ignorance, where does the G30 or G21 fit in this picture compared to the USP45?
HK is not available where I am based and virtually no parts or mags come in.

[PNWTO]

GJM

Pardon my lack of search-fu, but I recall you were working with a HK45C and found it acceptable for the originally discussed role?

[Dagga Boy]

Forgive my ignorance, where does the G30 or G21 fit in this picture compared to the USP45?
HK is not available where I am based and virtually no parts or mags come in.

I do know they did not particularly like +P .45ACP......I do not see that improving with the stuff that is running at higher pressure than that.

[GJM]

GJM

Pardon my lack of search-fu, but I recall you were working with a HK45C and found it acceptable for the originally discussed role?

Yes. My wife uses the HK45C as primary, and USP FS as secondary, based on size. I am the opposite.

[GJM]

On HK Pro, unless I am confused, there are some rumblings about some changes with the USP -- anyone know anything?

[Guinnessman]

On HK Pro, unless I am confused, there are some rumblings about some changes with the USP -- anyone know anything?

I have been following that thread, and in typical HKpro fashion, there is just too much bullshit in that thread to get a clear answer. I can wait until SHOT to get an answer.

In the meantime, you, YVK, and myself should troll the Pro in order to get a bunch of "Older," fired very little, safe queens to hit the classifieds over there so people can buy the latest and greatest.;)

[CDFIII]

From what I gathered off the PRO thread... No light rail update to the new USP. I hope they are all wrong. Personally all I would want changed is the ability to mount a light without the use of an after market adapter. I agree the thread is extremely jumbled.

[GJM]

In light of the arrival of the new P30 SK light LEM, I decided to benchmark the SK, USP C 9 light LEM, USP C 9 DA/SA, and USP FS 9 with hybrid match LEM trigger. I shot a variety of drills from up close to far, including Gabe's tests, FAST, Garcia dots, and eight inch steel at 30 yards. No surprise that the USP FS 9 shot best, as that LEM trigger is to me the best LEM available on any HK hammer gun. What did surprise me was that I consistently shot the P30SK better than either the USP C DA/SA or LEM. After the P30SK it went USP C DA/SA and finally the USP C LEM. Interestingly, where the slide on HK hammer pistols often reminds me of a boat at sea in big waves, the P30SK cycled very flat, likely a function of the short slide. Very surprising that I shot that better than either USP C and that the DA/SA was easier to shoot than the LEM.

[BCL]

On HK Pro, unless I am confused, there are some rumblings about some changes with the USP -- anyone know anything?

Link to the thread?

[BCL]

In light of the arrival of the new P30 SK light LEM, I decided to benchmark the SK, USP C 9 light LEM, USP C 9 DA/SA, and USP FS 9 with hybrid match LEM trigger. I shot a variety of drills from up close to far, including Gabe's tests, FAST, Garcia dots, and eight inch steel at 30 yards. No surprise that the USP FS 9 shot best, as that LEM trigger is to me the best LEM available on any HK hammer gun. What did surprise me was that I consistently shot the P30SK better than either the USP C DA/SA or LEM. After the P30SK it went USP C DA/SA and finally the USP C LEM. Interestingly, where the slide on HK hammer pistols often reminds me of a boat at sea in big waves, the P30SK cycled very flat, likely a function of the short slide. Very surprising that I shot that better than either USP C and that the DA/SA was easier to shoot than the LEM.

This is good info, thanks for doing the test! I am probably going to have to pick one up now after all of your rave reviews. Did you notice any degradation in splits up close with the long reset of the P30sk? I'm not able to split much faster than .21 or so with any HK P series I've tried to date.

[GJM]

Link to the thread?


http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/304865-usp-s-still-relevant-19.html


Sent from my iPad

[GJM]

This is good info, thanks for doing the test! I am probably going to have to pick one up now after all of your rave reviews. Did you notice any degradation in splits up close with the long reset of the P30sk? I'm not able to split much faster than .21 or so with any HK P series I've tried to date.

I just am not a fast enough splitter that I can comment, beyond seemed like an HK hammer gun.

[BCL]

I just am not a fast enough splitter that I can comment, beyond seemed like an HK hammer gun.

Fair enough, I don't split much faster than .19, so I don't know why I worry about it, thanks.

[Beendare]

Great thread GJM! I only wish I would have made some notes long the way...as I know I will be searching back for relative posts.

I think the hardcast bullets are going to be a game changer as a big bear deterrent. The old school "bigger is better" might go out the window with these relatively new bullets.

The bad part, we probably won't get a good data base to make a decision on the hardcast due to the dynamics of big bear encounters. The pepper spray folks are more likely to report successes...some of the successful pistol guys are less likely as AKFG can be a nightmare.
I have extensive experience with hollow points and charging hogs in the 80's and 90's and at that time knew there had to be a better solution than HP's. I had many glancing skull shots....but when you hit them between the eyes at 10 feet...you expect them to go down! That didn't always happen with the 156gr HP.357 rds or 240gr HP rds of the day.

Did you drop the BB 45 Outdoorsman 255gr hardcast rds in your USP fullsize as a backup bear round? I thought I read where they functioned perfectly.....

[GJM]

SLG tested the BB hard cast in his USP Expert, and had stoppages. I have also read of functioning problems by others with that load in their USP.

I am using the BB 230 FMJ-FP Super load and the Underwood 200 FMJ Super load with the Lehigh Penetrator bullet in my USP FS and HK45C, and both loads function in multiple copies of each model.

[Beendare]

Got it. Thx for the info.

I have always carried a SW 629 .44 and was thinking that was the ideal setup even comparing it to the SW329PD...though that 329 is a dream to pack around.

Last year on our semi annual bowhunting trip to Kodiak, We shot my 629, my buddies 329 and my other buddies G20 [modded for hardcast] side by side draw and shoot. It was an eye opener how much faster the accurate followup shots are with the G20 over a revolver.

We all know how fast these bear attacks occur. Many cases where the persons weapon was never fired or bear spray never deployed! I think it makes sense to move to a semi auto- either my USP or a G20. The edge might be the USP as I already have it and I don't need to change anything. I've got a couple buddies shooting the G20 and they all rebarrel [i know a guy can shoot the hardcast in Oct barrels but have had buddies reporting the bullets tumbling] My buddies changed out the recoil spring and extractor [as recommended by other folks I don't know] which bumps up the cost of the G20 considerably compared to the HK USP.

I spend a fair amount of time bowhunting the 100 miles around Yellowstone and in Ak- Faster, Lighter and more accurate followups is a good thing.

[GJM]

My wife and I still have over a dozen Glock 20/29 pistols, and regardless of barrel or recoil spring, none compare to the USP in reliability when shooting heavier than .40 S&W power factor, penetrating loads.

[STI]

My wife and I still have over a dozen Glock 20/29 pistols, and regardless of barrel or recoil spring, none compare to the USP in reliability when shooting heavier than .40 S&W power factor, penetrating loads.

Been lurking the whole thread -

For devoted 45 Super, opinions on HK45 vs USP?

[GJM]

USP FS because of dual recoil spring.

[STI]

Durability?

[PNWTO]

USP FS because of dual recoil spring.

If memory serves, didn't you discover that HK didn't test super loadings in the Hk45?

[GJM]

Durability?

Durability and reliability. It is self regulating from light ACP loads thru .45 Super.

HK45 does not have the dual recoil system. Per HK Pro, the USP FS is approved for Super ammo, but not the HK45 HK45C or USP C. I tested Super ammo in USP C and it was not reliable. I tested in HK45C and it has been reliable in three different serial numbers. No experience with Super in HK45.

[David S.]

Can't remember from this thread....

How difficult is it to swap parts from the DA/SA to match LEM? Is it something H&K will do?

[David S.]

SIGForum classified: USP-45 Full Size (http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/350601935/m/5520092614) DA/SA w/ thumb safety (V1) for $575.

I'd jump on this but my gun budget is empty.

[Alembic]

Can't remember from this thread....

How difficult is it to swap parts from the DA/SA to match LEM? Is it something H&K will do?

Easy to do yourself. Look at HKPro member, TooSixy's spring chart in the Reference Section, order the exact type of springs you want, for a light, heavy or TLG LEM, from HKUSA for a lot less $ than other venders and install LEM yourself.

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-reference-library/169316-how-convert-v3-da-sa-p2000sk-v1-v2-lem.html Spring Chart.

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-reference-library/172503-individual-lem-part-numbers.html HKUSA part number chart.

Links to Youtube "How to" videos. and HKPro member's instructions.

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-reference-library/188047-video-complete-lem-installation.html

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-reference-library/63079-lem-installation-instructions.html

[David S.]

Thanks Alembic.

I've backed away from the cliff on the above listed gun. A "field pistol", in a caliber I don't have, is just not in the cards for me this year. Hopefully someone here can use the above info.

[GJM]

JHC put me onto Larry Mudgett's website, Marksmanship Matters. It turns out my wife, Larry and I attended the same Gunsite rifle class with Jeff Cooper in 1991. Larry recently put up a new blog post, looking at 10mm and .45 Super:

http://www.marksmanshipmatters.com/comparing-the-10-mm-450-smc-and-45-super-for-predator-defense/

Larry and I had a very positive, preliminary phone conversation, and hope to connect again. Something I raised, was my experience with flat meplat, hard cast loads not being reliable enough in semi-auto pistols, hence my choice of the HK USP and FMJ bullets.

[JHC]

JHC put me onto Larry Mudgett's website, Marksmanship Matters. It turns out my wife, Larry and I attended the same Gunsite rifle class with Jeff Cooper in 1991. Larry recently put up a new blog post, looking at 10mm and .45 Super:

http://www.marksmanshipmatters.com/comparing-the-10-mm-450-smc-and-45-super-for-predator-defense/

Larry and I had a very positive, preliminary phone conversation, and hope to connect again. Something I raised, was my experience with flat meplat, hard cast loads not being reliable enough in semi-auto pistols, hence my choice of the HK USP and FMJ bullets.

His website includes quite a few very interesting articles and blog posts. Comments applied get email answers with a lot of cool back and forth feedback from his experience. Good folks.

[Dave Williams]

JHC put me onto Larry Mudgett's website, Marksmanship Matters. It turns out my wife, Larry and I attended the same Gunsite rifle class with Jeff Cooper in 1991

I've taken a couple classes with Larry, and would like to take more. Great classes. Unfortunately he's only training in Utah now.

[flyrodr]

Well, with spring in full bloom here in the SE (blowing pollen looks like yellow fog), the streams beckon. Some are pretty remote, and while I've never had a full-on confrontation with man or beast in the woods, I've had a few situations that were . . . well, memorable. Here in NC, I rarely see a bear, but do see feral dogs and a few people who look like they aren't necessarily out enjoying the outdoors. So I normally carry, and my favorite for many years has been one flavor or another of 1911. They've pretty much become range or class guns, or even safe queens, because of weight, capacity, not tolerating water well, etc. Dagga Boy had gotten me onto the P2000SK with Light LEM as a daily carry gun, which I like quite well. And with GJM having success with various stout loads in the big brother 45C, I decided to try it (also with the Light LEM) as a field gun. Both have HDs on them. I've run quite a bit of hardball through it without issues, but figured I better verify the functioning of various other loads. So, I went to the range today with some Hornady Critical Duty & Critical Defense, Gold Dot, and some totally new to me Lehigh Xtreme Penetrator. Tried them in individual mags, and mixed in the same mag. Didn't have a single issue, so 45C is good to go for me. Fits just fine in my Hill People kit bag, along with a couple of fly boxes and miscellaneous accessories, so it won't get wet unless (until) I find that special algae-covered rock that was waiting to dunk me.

And I'm thinking that those Xtreme Penetrators might be just the ticket for pigs at a friend's ranch in TX.

Long live the 1911. Glad for the HKs.

And thanks to Darryl and George!

[SamAdams]

Durability and reliability. It is self regulating from light ACP loads thru .45 Super.

HK45 does not have the dual recoil system. Per HK Pro, the USP FS is approved for Super ammo, but not the HK45 HK45C or USP C. I tested Super ammo in USP C and it was not reliable. I tested in HK45C and it has been reliable in three different serial numbers. No experience with Super in HK45.

Interesting. I have a USP45c and notice Underwood offers their 200gr Penetrator bullet in a +P 45ACP version. They list it at 100 fps slower than their 45 Super load. ( I didnt see what length barrel they used.) I also have complete slide assemblies for a Glock 21 that I sometimes trade out & use with a G20SF lower assembly to shoot 45ACP. - - I might see how these options work before buying another pistol, (specifically a USP45 FS). I already have mags, holsters, etc for the guns I mentioned.

[GJM]

I picked up an almost new USP45T today, set up perfectly by a PF member. Shot Lawman 230 and Underwood .45 Super with the Lehigh penetrator bullet. Here is five shots of each load at 25. You can see the distinctive shape of the Lehigh bullets. Needed a few click right for my eyes. Gun functioned perfectly, as I suspect with a USP FS .45.

16037

16038

[paul105]

Interesting. I have a USP45c and notice Underwood offers their 200gr Penetrator bullet in a +P 45ACP version. They list it at 100 fps slower than their 45 Super load. ( I didnt see what length barrel they used.) I also have complete slide assemblies for a Glock 21 that I sometimes trade out & use with a G20SF lower assembly to shoot 45ACP. - - I might see how these options work before buying another pistol, (specifically a USP45 FS). I already have mags, holsters, etc for the guns I mentioned.

Over the last year, I have shot and chronoed Underwood .45 ACP + P 255gr hard cast FN ammo in 4 different guns. All at 5 long paces from muzzle and 50 to 68 Deg F.

#1 Kahr CW45 3.64"-bbl long throat- 50 Deg F 2 shots 921 fps
#2 Kahr CW45 3.64"-bbl OEM throat- 50 Deg F 2 shots 958 fps
#3 Kahr CW45 3.64"-bbl OEM throat- 68 Deg F 3 shots 980 fps
#4 HK USP 4.41" - Jarvis barrel - 52 Def F 5 shots 985 fps

Also chronoed Underwood .45 ACP +p 200gr Extreme Penetrator

#5 Kahr CW45 3.64"-bbl OEM throat- 68 Deg F 6 shots 1,008 fps


The factory Kahr CW45 barrels have very short throats.

[Lost River]

To want a USP, I think you would really want to value very high round count durability, or the .45 Super capability, as many other .45 pistols have better ergonomics and shoot ability. As a reliable, stock .45 Super launcher, that also runs reliably with regular .acp, I know of nothing else that compares.

I have not had the chance to read the thread all the way through.

So for the A.D.D. is this still your observation/opinion, based on your experiences?

Look! Skwerl!

[Dave Williams]

Have you written up your experiences with the CW45 anywhere?


Over the last year, I have shot and chronoed Underwood .45 ACP + P 255gr hard cast FN ammo in 4 different guns. All at 5 long paces from muzzle and 50 to 68 Deg F.

#1 Kahr CW45 3.64"-bbl long throat- 50 Deg F 2 shots 921 fps
#2 Kahr CW45 3.64"-bbl OEM throat- 50 Deg F 2 shots 958 fps
#3 Kahr CW45 3.64"-bbl OEM throat- 68 Deg F 3 shots 980 fps
#4 HK USP 4.41" - Jarvis barrel - 52 Def F 5 shots 985 fps

Also chronoed Underwood .45 ACP +p 200gr Extreme Penetrator

#5 Kahr CW45 3.64"-bbl OEM throat- 68 Deg F 6 shots 1,008 fps


The factory Kahr CW45 barrels have very short throats.

[paul105]

Have you written up your experiences with the CW45 anywhere?

No I haven't.

Paul

[ldunnmobile]

Nice looking USP!

[GJM]

I have not had the chance to read the thread all the way through.

So for the A.D.D. is this still your observation/opinion, based on your experiences?

Look! Skwerl!

The USP is incredibly durable and the most reliable service pistol I am aware of to launch .45 Super. The grip is large for some people, the ergos are somewhat dated, and the HK trigger is an acquired taste. I find the hybrid match LEM to be the best HK hammer gun trigger available, and that is unique to the USP FS series.

This model USP and the HK45C are my field pistols.

[GJM]

16118

[Lost River]

The USP is incredibly durable and the most reliable service pistol I am aware of to launch .45 Super. The grip is large for some people, the ergos are somewhat dated, and the HK trigger is an acquired taste. I find the hybrid match LEM to be the best HK hammer gun trigger available, and that is unique to the USP FS series.

This model USP and the HK45C are my field pistols.

Thank you.

I may need to go find one to test drive, one of these days.

[newyork]

A friend of mine was generous and gracious enough to send me one of his usp 45. Very grateful and so excited to try her out. 1998 mfg. Needs a lube and wipe down. He sent me a Ggg rail, 5 10rd mags and an owb holster too. Very lucky.

http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/rslamiroult/62EE39AB-41B0-411F-959B-3FB9626F716E.jpg (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/rslamiroult/media/62EE39AB-41B0-411F-959B-3FB9626F716E.jpg.html)

http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/rslamiroult/64CB1ACF-EFE2-466C-A4A9-6D30887804C9.jpg (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/rslamiroult/media/64CB1ACF-EFE2-466C-A4A9-6D30887804C9.jpg.html)

[Poconnor]

GJM you pic is missing a USP expert! I know you will fix that quickly

[Chuck Haggard]

Having seen several pistols that eventually had long term issues with souped up rounds being used, are we sure the Super juice is worth the squeeze vs just using +p?

Is there enough extra penetration/performance on the terminal end to make the extra wear and tear and controllability issues worthwhile?

[GJM]

GJM you pic is missing a USP expert! I know you will fix that quickly

I have them in 9mm, and used one to run Gabe's class with.


Having seen several pistols that eventually had long term issues with souped up rounds being used, are we sure the Super juice is worth the squeeze vs just using +p?

Is there enough extra penetration/performance on the terminal end to make the extra wear and tear and controllability issues worthwhile?

Interesting post, Chuck. Very interested in what type pistols these were and what souped up loads? My anecdotal belief is that in terms of wear, regular ACP in a lightweight Commander or P220 alloy is about like .45 ACP+P in a steel Government, and .45 Super in a USP FS.

In my specific situation with the USP 45, I have shot enough Super loads to verify function and sight zero across multiple USP FS and HK45C pistols, but do my practice with regular .45 ACP. I have both Underwood .45 Super and .45+P loads, with the Lehigh penetrator bullet. In lower 48, I plan the +P load, but in Alaska, given that I am trying to make the USP do a revolver's job on penetration, and penetration is a pass/fail course, I believe in my situation that the extra 100 FPS is worth it around grizzly bears.

[Chuck Haggard]

Just a general observation. Glock 10mms, Glock 22s, S&W model 66s, 5903s and 6906s with a lot of +P ammo, overgassed ARs, Browning HiPowers with hot ammo, alloy frame 1911s.....

My USP45 Match displayed so much recoil with Triton Super loads that the batteries inside the SureFire light I had on the gun were crushed inside the tube and the light quit.

[GJM]

Been doing some point around on Saami specs. Seems like .40 S&W is 35,000, 10mm is 37,500 (although I have no idea what the boutique loads are doing), .45 ACP is 21,000, .45 +P is 23,000, and .45 Super is 28,000. As I understand it, the issue with .45 ACP is the brass being weak, but .45 Super uses a shortened version of the stronger .451 detonics case.

During development of the MK23, which is similar to the USP FS, it has been reported that HK tested the pistols with 30,000 +P rounds, followed by 6,000 higher pressure, proof rounds without damage. Then there is the story about Federal Cartridge's USP FS that went through 297,000 rounds without a breakage.

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/160710-chat-hk-armorer-must-read.html

[OlongJohnson]

Plus, a USP 45 is cheaper and easier to replace if you did manage to wear it out than any credible alternative .45 Super launcher, and is lighter and holds six more rounds than any available credible .357 Magnum launcher.

[GJM]

16232

[newyork]

Had to:
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/rslamiroult/054D992C-F768-4E87-BA91-E75504778FC5.jpg (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/rslamiroult/media/054D992C-F768-4E87-BA91-E75504778FC5.jpg.html)

[GJM]

With apologies in advance to our Canadian members, here is the USP "mod C." We stopped overnight in Whitehorse, Yukon, while flying a helicopter to AK, and this was our mod C for hiking there, in an area with grizzly bears.

17050

[1slow]

GG&G S7 steel ?

[Talionis]

With apologies in advance to our Canadian members, here is the USP "mod C." We stopped overnight in Whitehorse, Yukon, while flying a helicopter to AK, and this was our mod C for hiking there, in an area with grizzly bears.


So many questions. Will it reliably penetrate a bear's skull? How is the draw? Will it handle Super reliably?

[spinmove_]

So many questions. Will it reliably penetrate a bear's skull? How is the draw? Will it handle Super reliably?

Does it handle a steady diet of +P/Super swings/throws?


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

[GJM]

GG&G S7 steel ?

Had it ten years or so, and all I remember is G, G and G battle ace.


So many questions. Will it reliably penetrate a bear's skull? How is the draw? Will it handle Super reliably?

My wife and I were actually discussing technique, and couldn't agree on best practice, beyond one attempt at a good hit on the bridge of a bear's nose. Mostly, the axe made us feel better just having it!

[Balisong]

With apologies in advance to our Canadian members, here is the USP "mod C." We stopped overnight in Whitehorse, Yukon, while flying a helicopter to AK, and this was our mod C for hiking there, in an area with grizzly bears.

17050

I bet it handles "split" times really well eh?

Huh?

Huh?

No?

K.

[OlongJohnson]

Follow-through is yuuuge when splitting wood. Probably makes a difference if you are trying to split a bear.

That's all I've got.

[spinmove_]

I bet it handles "split" times really well eh?

Huh?

Huh?

No?

K.

I bearly got that joke.


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

[Duces Tecum]

I bearly got that joke.


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

It made me paws, too.

[spinmove_]

It made me paws, too.

These puns are getting a little grizzly...


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

[GJM]

When out in the field, here are the rigs my wife and I often carry. She is the HK45C and me the USP FS.

17325

On my rig, one pouch is for extra slugs, and another for an AR magazine when carrying the Wilson .458 Socom. My wife sometimes carries a .300 BLK, and uses the AR pouch that way.

This evening, I decided to benchmark the USP FS and HK45CT on Gabe's test. Surprisingly, I shot the 45C better. That is different than long range, where the extra sight radius and better hybrid match trigger make the USP FS better. Gabe's test is probably a better test of how you might use the pistol defensively in the field around a bear, and that argues for the 45C, although conversely, I think the USP FS is a more reliable Super launcher, with its dual recoil system. Interestingly, the HK45C may be more adaptable, as you can carry it with a flat bottom eight round magazine concealed, or the ten round extended magazine in the field. With the T, threaded barrel, you have the same barrel length and velocity as the USP FS.

[GJM]

Was shooting the HK45CTwith Lawman 230 ball, Buffalo Bore 230 FMJ-FP Super, Underwood +P Lehigh Penetrator, and Underwood 45 Super with the Lehigh Penetrator. It fed everything. Both Underwood loads seems especially accurate and well regulated, letting me walk back on eight inch steel to 65 yards.

[okie john]

16118

Sorry if I missed it, but where are you getting adjustable night sights for the USP FS?


Okie John

[11B10]

it is now because I ride dominant thumb over the outside of my support thumb, which TLG taught me is Sig and HK slide stop friendly.




This ^^^^^^ is why I go back and read older threads. My first time out with my new P30SK - about two months ago, I struggled with the failure of the slide to lock back several times. I was all over the map trying to figure out why. Then, for whatever reason (fatigue?), I just happened to "ride my dominant thumb," as GJM states above. It's odd that I never had that problem with my P320C, which I carried for over two years. Not one miscue with that pistol.

Thanks to TLG and GJM for confirming.

[GJM]

Sorry if I missed it, but where are you getting adjustable night sights for the USP FS?


Okie John

Those are the adjustable Mepro tritium sights that fit on the USP FS and Tactical. I prefer the sight picture and co.or of HD sights, but like the easy adjustability of the Mepro's.

https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/USP-Tactical-Night-Sight-Fully-Adjustable-p1721.htm

[GJM]

it is now because I ride dominant thumb over the outside of my support thumb, which TLG taught me is Sig and HK slide stop friendly.




This ^^^^^^ is why I go back and read older threads. My first time out with my new P30SK - about two months ago, I struggled with the failure of the slide to lock back several times. I was all over the map trying to figure out why. Then, for whatever reason (fatigue?), I just happened to "ride my dominant thumb," as GJM states above. It's odd that I never had that problem with my P320C, which I carried for over two years. Not one miscue with that pistol.

Thanks to TLG and GJM for confirming.

I learned it from Todd.

[11B10]

I learned it from Todd.



From the source! Yet another gift from a fine human being.

[Grey]

GJM, thanks for continuing to provide insight in this thread, although you make it really hard to not go pick up a 45ct. Really enjoy reading about your experiences.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[SamAdams]

Was shooting the HK45CTwith Lawman 230 ball, Buffalo Bore 230 FMJ-FP Super, Underwood +P Lehigh Penetrator, and Underwood 45 Super with the Lehigh Penetrator. It fed everything. Both Underwood loads seems especially accurate and well regulated, letting me walk back on eight inch steel to 65 yards.

This is interesting. I have a USP 45C. Haven't shot 45 Super through it. Way-back-when I heard it was best to go with the USP FS for that. I haven't kept up with all the changes and particulars of H&K pistols. How much of a diet of 45 Super do you shoot through your HK45CT ? Thanks

[GJM]

This is interesting. I have a USP 45C. Haven't shot 45 Super through it. Way-back-when I heard it was best to go with the USP FS for that. I haven't kept up with all the changes and particulars of H&K pistols. How much of a diet of 45 Super do you shoot through your HK45CT ? Thanks

I shot just enough Super through multiple HK45C pistols to be confident it would function reliably. Now, I shoot it only sporadically, like the other day vetting a HK45CT. I did test Super in a USP C 45 last summer, and it would not function reliably.

[SamAdams]

I shot just enough Super through multiple HK45C pistols to be confident it would function reliably. Now, I shoot it only sporadically, like the other day vetting a HK45CT. I did test Super in a USP C 45 last summer, and it would not function reliably.

Thank you, I appreciate it.

[GJM]

Talionis and I wee discussing the USP FS 45 vs the HK45C, and I thought it appropriate for this thread.

Here is what I like about the HK45C.

- it is very size efficient

- with a threaded barrel it gives you the same barrel length and velocity as a FS USP

- for an HK, there is good sight availability

- you can make it small with a flat base plate eight round mag, or bigger with the ten round elephant foot mag

- the beaver tail area is more rounded than the USP, allowing you to get higher on it, and slide down into position on the draw

- the magazine paddle releases are larger and better positioned for me than the USP

- magazines are as good as they get

Here is what I like about the USP FS .45

- the hybrid match trigger is flat out the best HK hammer trigger going

- the dual recoil system is better able to handle heavy loads, like .45 Super

- The HD rear sight for the USP is fully contained in the rear dovetail, making it less abrasive to your skin and clothing

- the grip is longer, helping to hang onto the pistol in recoil

- there is an adjustable rear sight available

[GJM]

This afternoon, I had the chance to compare a USP FS .40 with a match hybrid trigger to a P30L with light LEM and 4.1 parts. I rate the USP match trigger about 9/10, and the P30L 3/10. The difference really is that great.

[Nephrology]

This afternoon, I had the chance to compare a USP FS .40 with a match hybrid trigger to a P30L with light LEM and 4.1 parts. I rate the USP match trigger about 9/10, and the P30L 3/10. The difference really is that great.

I saw a HK USP45 FS in a local gun shop for $750 and thought about it for a hot second but realized 1) they have gone for way cheaper on GBroker in the not-so-distant past and 2) there was another gun I wanted to walk out with more...

[1slow]

Recently several HK USPT 45 (Tactical 45 Fullsize) have sold on GunBroker for $800. USP seems about near $600 +/- .

Brownells had HK USP 45 LE marked mags for about $28 and would backorder.

[Nephrology]

Recently several HK USPT 45 (Tactical 45 Fullsize) have sold on GunBroker for $800. USP seems about near $600 +/- .

Brownells had HK USP 45 LE marked mags for about $28 and would backorder.

There are several currently being listed by King's on GB. This one (http://www.gunbroker.com/item/656620691) is at $355 with 4 days left; historically I've seen the ones on King's go for between $400-$600.

...you can tell I have been silently lurking in this thread for a while.

[GJM]

You almost can't wear out a USP FS, so a used one might have some cosmetic dings, but is likely to be very functional.

[Nephrology]

You almost can't wear out a USP FS, so a used one might have some cosmetic dings, but is likely to be very functional.

I thought about one pretty hard, but I don't really have any need for .45 Super down here in CO, and frankly with the resources available to me I am much better off sticking to striker guns. Just not enough time/money to master the SA/DA or LEM trigger at the moment.

That said the trigger you describe getting on these guns thru HK is pretty appealing...

[MGW]

There are several currently being listed by King's on GB. This one (http://www.gunbroker.com/item/656620691) is at $355 with 4 days left; historically I've seen the ones on King's go for between $400-$600.

...you can tell I have been silently lurking in this thread for a while.

They have some really tempting 226's listed too.

[GJM]

I like Gabe's class test to evaluate different guns, and in particular 2H, and F2S (2B/1H). The turbo level times from open are 2.0 and 1.70, respectively, for the two drills.

I decided to see how the HK45C did on this, by running each of these, twice. First time thru yesterday, I was turbo on 3/4 runs. After my regular Q5 session today, I repeated it, again turbo 3/4 with the HK. Since it only takes 10 rounds to run all four tests, I repeated it twice more after, and was 3/4 both times. Each instance, it is one run of the F2S that gets me, and the issue is going over time slightly, in the 1.75-1.90 range. The draw is very critical for me, as I can't split the 45C fast, and that puts pressure to really hit the draw. I have been running this from open, and will have to try from AIWB.

I have just been using Lawman 230 ball, and guess I could up the challenge by running Super ammo.

[PNWTO]

GJM, thank you for keep this thread updated and active. I will probably be picking up a HK45CT based on your observations and the fact I have a few backcountry archery trips planned for this fall, to include NW MT.

[GJM]

GJM, thank you for keep this thread updated and active. I will probably be picking up a HK45CT based on your observations and the fact I have a few backcountry archery trips planned for this fall, to include NW MT.

For that, I would check out some Underwood Super or .45+P with the Lehigh Penetrator bullet.

[PNWTO]

For that, I would check out some Underwood Super or .45+P with the Lehigh Penetrator bullet.

On order, planning on blatantly copying you; to include a mag of JHP in the bino harness. :)

[Balisong]

GJM, thank you for keep this thread updated and active. I will probably be picking up a HK45CT based on your observations and the fact I have a few backcountry archery trips planned for this fall, to include NW MT.

I've also been greatly appreciating this thread and have learned several interesting things from it that I've been chewing on. I'll probably have some questions the next time I have some cash burning a hole in my pocket...

[GJM]

On order, planning on blatantly copying you; to include a mag of JHP in the bino harness. :)

17484

[GJM]

I recently received two HK45C pistols, one with light LEM installed by Lyman at HK, and another with a GGI reduced reset trigger job. I had a first range session with the light LEM 45C this afternoon. It has the OEM Mepro tritium sights. Here is five shots of Buffalo Bore 230 FMJ-FP, five shots of Underwood 230+P with the Lehigh Penetrator bullet, and two shots of the Underwood Lehigh .45 Super (all I had with me), all at 15 yards. As you can see, all rounds impacted very close in POI. I previously shot Lawman 230 ball, and it was in there too.

18320

No stoppages throughout the session, but hey this is an HK, what did you expect. I think we are up to six vetted HK45C pistols, none with issues with the Super ammo. Interestingly, I am coming to appreciate the Mepro OEM tritium sights, as the rear sight is very smooth compared to either HD or the 10-8 rear sights.

[Mike C]

I like Gabe's class test to evaluate different guns, and in particular 2H, and F2S (2B/1H). The turbo level times from open are 2.0 and 1.70, respectively, for the two drills.

I decided to see how the HK45C did on this, by running each of these, twice. First time thru yesterday, I was turbo on 3/4 runs. After my regular Q5 session today, I repeated it, again turbo 3/4 with the HK. Since it only takes 10 rounds to run all four tests, I repeated it twice more after, and was 3/4 both times. Each instance, it is one run of the F2S that gets me, and the issue is going over time slightly, in the 1.75-1.90 range. The draw is very critical for me, as I can't split the 45C fast, and that puts pressure to really hit the draw. I have been running this from open, and will have to try from AIWB.

I have just been using Lawman 230 ball, and guess I could up the challenge by running Super ammo.

GJM, were these LEM or TDA times? If you've done both on the timer how do the different trigger systems effect your draw, splits and over all times with the 45's? For example are you having to ramp up the draw more on one vs the other, (LEM vs TDA) or are they about the same? Do the different triggers effect your draw i.e. press vs punch out, additionally are you having to get on the trigger faster and fire in the line of presentation? I'm just curious where you make up the bulk of your time. I know your said it's your draw but are your pulling .10's from various places to make up for the splits? I'm not trying to second guess you, I'm just curious what you think feel and see as your experiencing it or maybe looking back at it on video. Ever since Gabe's class I've been trying to look at everything and break it down to a more refined process with others and myself to see how it could apply to me and I can improve. Then again I could just be making shit more complicated than it needs to be. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[GJM]

GJM, were these LEM or TDA times? If you've done both on the timer how do the different trigger systems effect your draw, splits and over all times with the 45's? For example are you having to ramp up the draw more on one vs the other, (LEM vs TDA) or are they about the same? Do the different triggers effect your draw i.e. press vs punch out, additionally are you having to get on the trigger faster and fire in the line of presentation? I'm just curious where you make up the bulk of your time. I know your said it's your draw but are your pulling .10's from various places to make up for the splits? I'm not trying to second guess you, I'm just curious what you think feel and see as your experiencing it or maybe looking back at it on video. Ever since Gabe's class I've been trying to look at everything and break it down to a more refined process with others and myself to see how it could apply to me and I can improve. Then again I could just be making shit more complicated than it needs to be. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I am running light LEM on my HK45C and hybrid match LEM on my USP FS pistols. On the USP FS, I can't reliably activate the thumb safety on my draw, so any DA/SA USP pistols are V3, which is decock only. Frankly, even with the match trigger, the DA pull blows on the USP, as it is like 12 pounds. What that means, is to have a decent draw, you have to get aggressive sooner. Personally, I prefer to get on the trigger later not earlier.

I am a pretty slow splitter, and on HK LEM 9mm pistols, in the .23-25 range on body shots, and more like .25-.28 with .45. The good news is I can shoot the heads about as fast as the body splits with LEM, so I get time there and on my draw. Shooting Gabe's test with a LEM .45 is a full on proposition for me, with no margin for error, and I am not sure I would be successful off my calm range.

[Mike C]

Thank you.

[GJM]

GJM, were these LEM or TDA times? If you've done both on the timer how do the different trigger systems effect your draw, splits and over all times with the 45's? For example are you having to ramp up the draw more on one vs the other, (LEM vs TDA) or are they about the same? Do the different triggers effect your draw i.e. press vs punch out, additionally are you having to get on the trigger faster and fire in the line of presentation? I'm just curious where you make up the bulk of your time. I know your said it's your draw but are your pulling .10's from various places to make up for the splits? I'm not trying to second guess you, I'm just curious what you think feel and see as your experiencing it or maybe looking back at it on video. Ever since Gabe's class I've been trying to look at everything and break it down to a more refined process with others and myself to see how it could apply to me and I can improve. Then again I could just be making shit more complicated than it needs to be. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

As it turned out, I was shooting my USP FS .40 this afternoon, and ran Gabe's test. I was shooting from open carry, so those times apply. On the 2H/1B, this is how my time broke down -- .87 draw, .26 body split, .46 head split. The .40 S&W costs me something over 9 on the head splits.

[Default.mp3]

On the USP FS, I can't reliably activate the thumb safety on my draw, so any DA/SA USP pistols are V3, which is decock only.Are there any H&Ks you can reliably use the thumb safety? What issue do you have with the USP thumb safety?

[GJM]

Are there any H&Ks you can reliably use the thumb safety? What issue do you have with the USP thumb safety?

It has been a while, but with a V7 plate I think the HK45 was OK, although I convert to LEM. Think the P30S was also OK, although in .40, riding the thumb safety abraded the inside of my thumb.

The issue with the USP FS, is the way I need to position my hand to reliably and quickly move the thumb safety, is not the ideal hand position for running the trigger. The hybrid match LEM is perfect for me, as it is a great trigger, and gets rid of the thumb safety. If stuck with a DA/SA, I go V3, which turns the safety into only a decocker, and is a usable if not ideal trigger for me.

[1slow]

Size 11 bony hands here.
I find the HK USP safety to be easier to reach than the HK45 full size.
I seem to have a better grip on a USP 45 LEM than on a Cocked and locked USP until the safety comes off.

[JTQ]

The issue with the USP FS, is the way I need to position my hand to reliably and quickly move the thumb safety, is not the ideal hand position for running the trigger. The hybrid match LEM is perfect for me, as it is a great trigger, and gets rid of the thumb safety. If stuck with a DA/SA, I go V3, which turns the safety into only a decocker, and is a usable if not ideal trigger for me.
I've only played around with the various HK's, USP & HK45, but I agree. I'm a 1911 guy, and Condition 1 - Cocked and Locked - is natural to me. However, I would rather not have to use the lever on the HK's as I do the thumb safety on the 1911. I'd prefer to look at those guns as DA/SA or DA (LEM) only guns.

[JTQ]

Size 11 bony hands here.

As a data point to my above post, I wear a size 8 glove, so hand size could be my issue with HK's thumb safety lever.

[MGW]

Okay, I've finally read this entire thread. I have a V1 45c that I want to convert to light LEM. I would rather have HK do it. Who do I call at HK USA and what do I ask for? Just request light LEM?

I know it's in here somewhere but having a heck of a time tracking it down.

[flyrodr]

Okay, I've finally read this entire thread. I have a V1 45c that I want to convert to light LEM. I would rather have HK do it. Who do I call at HK USA and what do I ask for? Just request light LEM?

I know it's in here somewhere but having a heck of a time tracking it down.

Yes, just go to the HK site http://hk-usa.com/warranty/ , call the number at the bottom of the page, tell them you want to get the Light LEM conversion (which I believe is V1), ask for a return authorization number to return the pistol to them, and they'll do all the paperwork while you're on the phone.

You'll have to ship it to them overnight (FedEx or UPS, not USPS), or thru a local FFL holder. They can ship the gun directly back to you, but you'll have to be there to sign for the delivery.

[GJM]

Thread on HK Pro, saying a police woman shot and killed four of the terrorists with a USP 9x19:

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/386953-hk-usp-9x19.html

[SteveB]

The hybrid match LEM is perfect for me, as it is a great HK trigger, and gets rid of the thumb safety.

FIFY

[KevH]

To GJM and the other multi-USP-owning folks...

For a fullsize, do you have a preference between 9mm, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP in these guns?

Any preference between fullsize and compact in 40 S&W?

I'm looking at picking up a 40 S&W to play with because they're inexpensive right now. I figure I can send it back to H&K to have the Hybrid Match LEM and the pistol inspected for less than it would cost to buy a new one in a different caliber and I get 40 S&W for free from my work.

[GJM]

I like all three full size calibers. If you can handle the size, I like the FS .40 over the Compact as the trigger is better (full hybrid match LEM), it reloads much easier, and the larger frame is easier for me shooting .40.

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

To GJM and the other multi-USP-owning folks...

For a fullsize, do you have a preference between 9mm, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP in these guns?

Any preference between fullsize and compact in 40 S&W?

I'm looking at picking up a 40 S&W to play with because they're inexpensive right now. I figure I can send it back to H&K to have the Hybrid Match LEM and the pistol inspected for less than it would cost to buy a new one in a different caliber and I get 40 S&W for free from my work.

I would just go for the .40 Full Size, especially if you don't have large hands. The USP was designed around .40 first, it is WAY overbuilt for 9mm... the .45 was upscaled to handle the extra wear. First choice, .40.... second choice, .45.... third choice, 9mm.

[JTQ]

One thing that always concerns me with the HK USP's, and I think HK is a great company, but the only guns they've used the polymer magazines in are the USP 9 and USP 40 full size. The USP 45 and all the USP Compacts, and every pistol they've made since then have used metal mags. It always makes me think they figured out the poly mags weren't a good idea and moved on to steel.

[El Cid]

One thing that always concerns me with the HK USP's, and I think HK is a great company, but the only guns they've used the polymer magazines in are the USP 9 and USP 40 full size. The USP 45 and all the USP Compacts, and every pistol they've made since then have used metal mags. It always makes me think they figured out the poly mags weren't a good idea and moved on to steel.

I have had a USP9 since the mid 90's and never had an issue. Even with the 10 round mags during the Klinton AWB. I have a 31rd polymer mag and a handful of the 18rd mags. No complaints. I agree with your logic that metal may be better (even Glock went to metal lined), but I believe the old design was well done enough that there is nothing to worry about.

I also spent several years working with a PD that issued the USP45. I can't recall them griping about anything but the overall size of the gun and proprietary rail. And cops love to gripe. Lol!

[TC215]

I have had a USP9 since the mid 90's and never had an issue. Even with the 10 round mags during the Klinton AWB. I have a 31rd polymer mag and a handful of the 18rd mags. No complaints. I agree with your logic that metal may be better (even Glock went to metal lined), but I believe the old design was well done enough that there is nothing to worry about.

I also spent several years working with a PD that issued the USP45. I can't recall them griping about anything but the overall size of the gun and proprietary rail. And cops love to gripe. Lol!

My agency issued USP .45's for a long time as well.

You don't normally hear complaints about HK mags. They know how to build them right.

[GJM]

I may be remembering this wrong, but I though HK went to a metal mag on the USP 45 as it was thinner than polymer, and they were trying to keep the grip size down.

[El Cid]

I may be remembering this wrong, but I though HK went to a metal mag on the USP 45 as it was thinner than polymer, and they were trying to keep the grip size down.

My USPC 45 had metal so that's plausible. I got it a couple years after the 9mm - 1997ish.

[JTQ]

I have had a USP9 since the mid 90's and never had an issue. Even with the 10 round mags during the Klinton AWB. I have a 31rd polymer mag and a handful of the 18rd mags. No complaints. I agree with your logic that metal may be better (even Glock went to metal lined), but I believe the old design was well done enough that there is nothing to worry about.
Thanks.

[JTQ]

I may be remembering this wrong, but I though HK went to a metal mag on the USP 45 as it was thinner than polymer, and they were trying to keep the grip size down.
I've also heard that. Perhaps they chose them for the same reason for the newer guns too. It's always just seemed odd to me that the USP 9 and USP 40 full size guns were the beginning and end of the poly mags for HK.

[newyork]

I would just go for the .40 Full Size, especially if you don't have large hands. The USP was designed around .40 first, it is WAY overbuilt for 9mm... the .45 was upscaled to handle the extra wear. First choice, .40.... second choice, .45.... third choice, 9mm.

Because the OP has free .40 at his disposal or is there something the .40 excels at over the 9?

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

Because the OP has free .40 at his disposal or is there something the .40 excels at over the 9?

.40 is going to get better penetration than 9mm, given similar loadings with comparable bullets (ie heavy or light for caliber).


I've also heard that. Perhaps they chose them for the same reason for the newer guns too. It's always just seemed odd to me that the USP 9 and USP 40 full size guns were the beginning and end of the poly mags for HK.

I do believe the metal mags became the norm because it allowed a much narrower grip and the complaints of the USP have always been the chunky square grips.

[okie john]

Have we arrived at an opinion on the FNX and variants as field pistols?

Thanks,


Okie John

[MSparks909]

MAC Gauntlet tested a USP 45...and it did not disappoint! What a tank. To those that carry these in the field, ala GJM, carry with confidence!


https://youtu.be/-omukX5ScM0

[GJM]

My wife and I have found them to be very reliable.

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

MAC Gauntlet tested a USP 45...and it did not disappoint! What a tank. To those that carry these in the field, ala GJM, carry with confidence!


https://youtu.be/-omukX5ScM0

In other news, today's feature report finds that the sky is in fact blue...

[GJM]

I view these tests as mostly entertainment, unless it is on a pistol I carry, and the results are favorable, in which case I focus on the results and not the methods. :)

[MSparks909]

I think if I had to choose one and only one pistol to get me through the apocalypse it would be the USP 45. I wasn't a big fan of my USP 9 but I might re-evaluate the USP 45 if I can find one around me to rent...

[GJM]

I think if I had to choose one and only one pistol to get me through the apocalypse it would be the USP 45. I wasn't a big fan of my USP 9 but I might re-evaluate the USP 45 if I can find one around me to rent...

Used ones for $400-500 on GB......

[1slow]

GJM, between you and DaggaBoy I am HK USP 45 poor !

[GJM]

GJM, between you and DaggaBoy I am HK USP 45 poor !

Don’t you remember DB saying his GF is more like the guy in Wind River, and he is the female FBI agent. These days Darryl packs an itty bitty Beretta, but the the GF is more likely to carry a USP FS 45.

[1slow]

What ammo would you currently use for human attackers and what for bears.

DB seems to like HST 230gr +p Federal for people. I seem to remember you had accuracy issues with it and were using Hornady ? For bears .45 super Lehigh 200 gr or BB .45 Super 230 gr FMJ. I tested the BB 230 .45 Super and it worked OK in 2+ of my USP 45.

How is the POI on the 200 Lehigh vs. 230 gr BB ?n I remember the BB .45 Super being within 2'' or so of .45 acp 230 at 25 yards.

I have a stash of WW Ranger +p 230 gr JHP .45 acp from some years back, before quality control issues. Any toughts ?

Thanks hugely.

[GJM]

What ammo would you currently use for human attackers and what for bears.

DB seems to like HST 230gr +p Federal for people. I seem to remember you had accuracy issues with it and were using Hornady ? For bears .45 super Lehigh 200 gr or BB .45 Super 230 gr FMJ. I tested the BB 230 .45 Super and it worked OK in 2+ of my USP 45.

How is the POI on the 200 Lehigh vs. 230 gr BB ?n I remember the BB .45 Super being within 2'' or so of .45 acp 230 at 25 yards.

I have a stash of WW Ranger +p 230 gr JHP .45 acp from some years back, before quality control issues. Any toughts ?

Thanks hugely.

For JHP, I defer to DOCGKR. I use the Hornady Critical Duty 220+P because it is accurate, functions well in the USP and has a reputation as a tough JHP load. For bears, it is settled for me -- Underwood Lehigh Xtreme .45 Super for grizzly bears, and the same but in 45+P for black bears and general field use.

[1slow]

Thank you.

[Dagga Boy]

Don’t you remember DB saying his GF is more like the guy in Wind River, and he is the female FBI agent. These days Darryl packs an itty bitty Beretta, but the the GF is more likely to carry a USP FS 45.

Could easily happen....

[radjxf]

This afternoon, I had the chance to compare a USP FS .40 with a match hybrid trigger to a P30L with light LEM and 4.1 parts. I rate the USP match trigger about 9/10, and the P30L 3/10. The difference really is that great.

If you have time, could you elaborate on this please? Other than an overtravel stop and maybe the nickel sear spring, what makes the LEM hybrid match so much better than the light LEM?

I ask as I've since given up on [light] LEM (P2000 and USP full size and compacts) since it takes me a huge amount of training to shoot even half as well as I do with striker or even TDA.

This actually pertains to the thread because I'd like to find an alternative to my Glock 20 that just flat is too big for my hand and gives me killer "Glock knuckle!"

Thanks

[GJM]

I really don’t have much to add, except that I really like the P30L DA/SA with the BCL mods — very shootable pistol and trigger.

[TheNewbie]

I handled a USP45 the other day. I have small hands, but I didn't find it to be as insanely big in the grip as I thought it would have. It wasn't small, and it might be difficult for me to control rapid fire, but the grip was not as bad as I thought it would be.

[OlongJohnson]

I had a price-dropped HK45 in my cart and had logged in to check out, then came back here and read GJM's comments about HK45 vs USP45. Now I'm watching half a dozen USP45s on GB again, and sending enabling emails to a buddy looking for a Tac to go with his can.

[LtDave]

What ammo would you currently use for human attackers and what for bears.

DB seems to like HST 230gr +p Federal for people. I seem to remember you had accuracy issues with it and were using Hornady ? For bears .45 super Lehigh 200 gr or BB .45 Super 230 gr FMJ. I tested the BB 230 .45 Super and it worked OK in 2+ of my USP 45.

How is the POI on the 200 Lehigh vs. 230 gr BB ?n I remember the BB .45 Super being within 2'' or so of .45 acp 230 at 25 yards.

I have a stash of WW Ranger +p 230 gr JHP .45 acp from some years back, before quality control issues. Any toughts ?

Thanks hugely.
A bit of a necro post, but hey.
In my .45 autos, which include, HK, Glock, & SIG, the two consistently accurate rounds are the Federal HST and Winchester Ranger. Some of my guns shoot the +P better. HST seems to have a slight edge over the Winchester in accuracy. I really have no preference either way, I use whichever one shoots the best in a particular gun. I have one Glock 30 that prefers Speer 230 gr Gold Dot to HST and Ranger.

[1slow]

Thanks.

[GJM]

Hornady Critical Duty 220 +P is crazy accurate out of all my USP 45 pistols.

[LtDave]

Hornady Critical Duty 220 +P is crazy accurate out of all my USP 45 pistols.

None of my USPs or HK45’s like it that well.:-( It shot ok for me in a couple of Glocks, but nothing outstanding. Maybe I got a so-so lot?

A couple of my P30’s do like the 9mm critical Duty +P. I shot it at the last GAS match.

[El Cid]

FYI - USP 45 Elite in stock for $950. I keep checking for the Expert but they never seem to come back.

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/15391/Firearms/Handguns/Heckler+%26+Koch/H%26K+USP+Elite+.45+ACP+12+Rd+Super+Blowout

[rjohnson4405]

I really don’t have much to add, except that I really like the P30L DA/SA with the BCL mods — very shootable pistol and trigger.

Could you be more specific on what the mods are? I searched for posts from BCL but didn't find anything specifying his HK mods...

[GJM]

Could you be more specific on what the mods are? I searched for posts from BCL but didn't find anything specifying his HK mods...

BCL

[EVP]

I have been desiring a usp expert 9mm and possibly even a 45acp version even though I am perfectly happy with my p30L.

[BCL]

Could you be more specific on what the mods are? I searched for posts from BCL but didn't find anything specifying his HK mods...

For the P-series HKs, I do the following:

Nickle-plated sear spring
Light firing pin block spring (209296)
Wolff 12lb hammer spring

It smooths out the DA significantly and makes the SA better as well.

[Balisong]

For the P-series HKs, I do the following:

Nickle-plated sear spring
Light firing pin block spring (209296)
Wolff 12lb hammer spring

It smooths out the DA significantly and makes the SA better as well.

If I ever have a non LEM P series I will give this formula a try. Please indulge my ignorance here, but does the light firing pin block spring sacrifice a level of safety in the gun?

[BCL]

If I ever have a non LEM P series I will give this formula a try. Please indulge my ignorance here, but does the light firing pin block spring sacrifice a level of safety in the gun?

I haven't drop tested it, but it's an OEM part that is standard on the non-P-series hammer-fired HKs. Todd changed it out in his P30 during the endurance test and, IIRC, he said HK put the heavier light firing pin block spring in the P30 to add weight to the trigger pull.

So in short, I would say no, it doesn't affect the level of safety in the gun, but I don't have any data to prove it.

[Matthew]

For the P-series HKs, I do the following:

Nickle-plated sear spring
Light firing pin block spring (209296)
Wolff 12lb hammer spring

It smooths out the DA significantly and makes the SA better as well.

Have you tried the HKParts 10lb hammer spring?

[Balisong]

I haven't drop tested it, but it's an OEM part that is standard on the non-P-series hammer-fired HKs. Todd changed it out in his P30 during the endurance test and, IIRC, he said HK put the heavier light firing pin block spring in the P30 to add weight to the trigger pull.

So in short, I would say no, it doesn't affect the level of safety in the gun, but I don't have any data to prove it.

I appreciate the info. Those experiences and the logic makes enough sense to me for my comfort level. Like I said, for now I'm rocking the LEM due to a number of reasons, but if I go back to TDA I will certainly try your setup.

How about a 2nd stupid question. Has anyone tried any of these part swaps on a LEM P series and gotten favorable/worthwhile results?

[BCL]

Have you tried the HKParts 10lb hammer spring?

I have not, I never felt the need and didn't want to risk light primer strikes.

[rjohnson4405]

Thanks BCL and GJM.

Looks like the sear spring and lighter firing pin spring will work in my HK45C and a P30SK.

All 3 parts will work in a P30L which is on the wish list. Good to know! I see these Beretta guys getting spoiled.

[1slow]

GG&G now has a picatinny rail adapter for HK USP45, this works and fits well.

Earlier (page 53) I had posted about GG&G's earlier version that I had to adapt.

[1slow]

Any experience with the HK Parts net 5 round magazine extension for the USP45. They do not mention a longer spring which seems odd for a 5 round addition.

I have used the Taylor freelance +5 (really +4 in 9mm) on my P30s and their +3 on USP9mm with good success.

[einherjarvalk]

Not USP*45* specific, but since this appears to have become the big USP thread on-site, I'll ask this here:

Does anyone have the full specs on the LPA adjustable sights for the USP Tactical (9mm in this case)? I'm mostly interested in the front sight as I want to swap it either for a Meprolight tritium front or Dawson Precision fiber optic front, but I'm having a hard time finding the dimensions of the front sight and rear notch on the stock LPA sights. I'm also having some trouble finding the width/height of the Mep sight too, but first things first.

Ideally, I want to narrow the front sight a bit but keep the height identical so that my POA/POI doesn't change much once installed and I can maintain a clear sight picture with my suppressor. I tried to take a set of calipers to the front sight but got a width measurement of about .150" width and .370" height (measured from top of slide to highest point of front sight), which doesn't seem right. If I have to adjust for elevation with my rear sight, I can do that, but it's of utmost importance to me that I keep the sight picture clear when used with a suppressor.

[PNWTO]

Bumping to ask if anyone has seen these (USP 45 FS) in stock anywhere? Or is my Google-Fu weak?

Started a new career over the winter where I will be in the front/back-country quite a lot and a robust .45 that isn't my Blackhawk is making a lot of sense. I see the Hk45C around but I have had a good time with my friend's USP.

[GJM]

Bumping to ask if anyone has seen these (USP 45 FS) in stock anywhere? Or is my Google-Fu weak?

Started a new career over the winter where I will be in the front/back-country quite a lot and a robust .45 that isn't my Blackhawk is making a lot of sense. I see the Hk45C around but I have had a good time with my friend's USP.


Used copies of the FS USP 45 were crazy cheap on Gunbroker last summer. As durable as they are, I wouldn’t hesitate to get a used one.

[PNWTO]

Used copies of the FS USP 45 were crazy cheap on Gunbroker last summer. As durable as they are, I wouldn’t hesitate to get a used one.

With a cursory mobile search on GB it seems the used guns are demanding new prices... at the risk of a tin foil hat the USP series isn't in production jeopardy?

[Dave Williams]

Atwells in Painesville Ohio sometimes has cheap USPs you could call them and check.

[PNWTO]

Missed the edit window so call me Chicken Little. Called HK and, obviously-no-shit-Sherlock, the USP is alive and well. Just slowly moving.

[Exiledviking]

I hope this is OK to post? If not please let me know.

Try Mike at Cross Creek Guns. According to his website there are new USP 45 pistols in stock available thru his distributors. Plus he's a great guy to deal with.

[einherjarvalk]

If you don't mind replacing the almost-certainly-dead night sights, Kings Firearms has police trade in USP 45s for $450 right now.

https://www.kingsfirearmsonline.com/products/ammo-hk-528-13-161609-528

[OlongJohnson]

Police trade ins can be nice or hammered. I would wait for them to show up on GB where you'll at least get pics of the outside of the actual pistol you're bidding on. If you're willing to lurk and wait, deals come along. I picked up a USP .40 on GB for <$350 including freight and transfer, and the apparent round count is low. Wasn't even a police gun, actually. Also, check the completed listings on GB, and sort them by highest number of bids to see the ones that actually sold, so you know what people are paying, rather than what people are asking.

With a quick scan of GB, it looks like barely-used USP .45s can be had in the mid-$500s or so, which is hardly a new price.

[Bigghoss]

Sportsmans outdoor superstore also has trade in USP45s for under $500.

[Gun Mutt]

A dear friend is on the prowl for a .45 USPc, drop me a pm if you run across one.

[GJM]

USP C .45 is a no go for me, because while the USP FS and HK45C have been fully reliable with jacketed Super ammo, not so with my USP C.

[shane45]

I was aware the original USP45 was GTG with 45 Super. I wasnt aware that was true of the HK45C. Interesting!

[PNWTO]

USP C .45 is a no go for me, because while the USP FS and HK45C have been fully reliable with jacketed Super ammo, not so with my USP C.

This is good to know. I think the 45C would be a better fit for size and occasional CC. The PNW doesn't really justify 45 Super so +P loads would be the primary.

[JPedersen]

This is good to know. I think the 45C would be a better fit for size and occasional CC. The PNW doesn't really justify 45 Super so +P loads would be the primary.

I have been wondering the same thing. I am headed out on the CDT for 14 days in Sept. and looking for a field pistol to carry... I have been weighing the 45 Super vs. 45 +P options. Glacier and the Tetons have some bigger brown bear from what I understand. I have read this thread from beginning to end 2x. I value the effort and information greatly. My question would be - does the collective here at PF think 45+P for the CDT would be enough for a 14-day jaunt... or do I need to buy another pistol that handles 45 super?

[JHC]

I have been wondering the same thing. I am headed out on the CDT for 14 days in Sept. and looking for a field pistol to carry... I have been weighing the 45 Super vs. 45 +P options. Glacier and the Tetons have some bigger brown bear from what I understand. I have read this thread from beginning to end 2x. I value the effort and information greatly. My question would be - does the collective here at PF think 45+P for the CDT would be enough for a 14-day jaunt... or do I need to buy another pistol that handles 45 super?

With the caveat that none of us have actually shot bear skulls, living or dead, with service pistols, I'd prolly load up with the +P Hornady Critical Duty 220 grain .45 ACP

[GJM]

I have been wondering the same thing. I am headed out on the CDT for 14 days in Sept. and looking for a field pistol to carry... I have been weighing the 45 Super vs. 45 +P options. Glacier and the Tetons have some bigger brown bear from what I understand. I have read this thread from beginning to end 2x. I value the effort and information greatly. My question would be - does the collective here at PF think 45+P for the CDT would be enough for a 14-day jaunt... or do I need to buy another pistol that handles 45 super?

What is CDT?

[TCFD273]

What is CDT?

Continental Divide Trail, in Montana


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GJM]

Continental Divide Trail, in Montana


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In that case, regardless of whether it was just an afternoon or a month long hike, I would take some Underwood Lehigh penetrator loads, and a small canister of bear spray.

[TCFD273]

In that case, regardless of whether it was just an afternoon or a month long hike, I would take some Underwood Lehigh penetrator loads, and a small canister of bear spray.

I wonder how many USP’s you’ve sold? I know I picked one up for this years elk season. (I predominately hunt Montana)


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[GJM]

I wonder how many USP’s you’ve sold? I know I picked one up for this years elk season. (I predominately hunt Montana)


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Haven’t sold a USP yet!

[1slow]

Haven’t sold a USP yet!

Between GJM's and DB's, influence I became a USP addict. I enjoy them a lot so it is OK.

[JPedersen]

*Apologies - Double posted now.

[JPedersen]

What is CDT?

TCFD273 nailed it... but it is a trail that runs from Canada to Mexico. I am following it while camping off of a motorcycle for 14 days in Sept. We will fly into Boseman, then up to border... and begin driving off road trails down through / near Glacier, then Tetons, then into Rockies in CO, San Juans, into ABQ... and so forth. Looking to get to atleast New mexico



In that case, regardless of whether it was just an afternoon or a month-long hike, I would take some Underwood Lehigh penetrator loads, and a small canister of bear spray.

That is what I was initially planning on ... and wanting to run 45 Super per your experience- but then saw that USPC didn't fair well. So looking at picking up a HK45C. GJM - I know you opted out of the LEM for how you use the field pistol- could you elaborate more as to what I need to consider re: LEM vs DA/SA in this particular HK that is primarily designed for field use... but will be pressed into CCW because occasionally we need to ride our motorcycles into town, gas up, food runs, and such. So the odd situation is that the pistol will be both "field use" as well as occasional CCW.

Any recommendations on bear spray?

* I can't figure out how to compile multiple quotes into 1 reply.

[GJM]

TCFD273 nailed it... but it is a trail that runs from Canada to Mexico. I am following it while camping off of a motorcycle for 14 days in Sept. We will fly into Boseman, then up to border... and begin driving off road trails down through / near Glacier, then Tetons, then into Rockies in CO, San Juans, into ABQ... and so forth. Looking to get to atleast New mexico




That is what I was initially planning on ... and wanting to run 45 Super per your experience- but then saw that USPC didn't fair well. So looking at picking up a HK45C. GJM - I know you opted out of the LEM for how you use the field pistol- could you elaborate more as to what I need to consider re: LEM vs DA/SA in this particular HK that is primarily designed for field use... but will be pressed into CCW because occasionally we need to ride our motorcycles into town, gas up, food runs, and such. So the odd situation is that the pistol will be both "field use" as well as occasional CCW.

Any recommendations on bear spray?

* I can't figure out how to compile multiple quotes into 1 reply.

Two major brands of spray, both claim to be best. I got a Mystery Ranch holster at Powder Horn in Bozeman for my spray.

Maybe just run Underwood Lehigh .45+P in your current HK. Not enough time to explain now, but I like LEM in USP FS and HK45C, and DA/SA in P30L and USP C. Differences = dancing on the head of a pin.

[TCFD273]

TCFD273 nailed it... but it is a trail that runs from Canada to Mexico. I am following it while camping off of a motorcycle for 14 days in Sept. We will fly into Boseman, then up to border... and begin driving off road trails down through / near Glacier, then Tetons, then into Rockies in CO, San Juans, into ABQ... and so forth. Looking to get to atleast New mexico




That is what I was initially planning on ... and wanting to run 45 Super per your experience- but then saw that USPC didn't fair well. So looking at picking up a HK45C. GJM - I know you opted out of the LEM for how you use the field pistol- could you elaborate more as to what I need to consider re: LEM vs DA/SA in this particular HK that is primarily designed for field use... but will be pressed into CCW because occasionally we need to ride our motorcycles into town, gas up, food runs, and such. So the odd situation is that the pistol will be both "field use" as well as occasional CCW.

Any recommendations on bear spray?

* I can't figure out how to compile multiple quotes into 1 reply.

Wow, I just missed it by a few states. Montana is my second home, moving there permanently when I retire...so I was just showing my bias. Haha


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[GJM]

I found myself in lower 48 with a USP T, a need for griz protection, and no appendix holster. Tony came through!

27244

[JPedersen]

I found myself in lower 48 with a USP T, a need for griz protection, and no appendix holster. Tony came through!

27244That looks like a great rig! GJM - thank you for your insight and help. Per your suggestion I have a HK45C on the way to pair with a HPG kit bag for my motorcycle/camping tour. Now I just need to order some 45 super ammo. I have 2 months to vet this pistol.

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[GJM]

That looks like a great rig! GJM - thank you for your insight and help. Per your suggestion I have a HK45C on the way to pair with a HPG kit bag for my motorcycle/camping tour. Now I just need to order some 45 super ammo. I have 2 months to vet this pistol.

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Between my wife and I, we have about a half dozen HK45C pistols, and everyone has been reliable with the Underwood Lehigh. I would be extremely surprised if you have an issue with that pistol and load.

[Canyonrat]

Is this thread the reason I can’t find a USP 45 full-size (not tactical) online anywhere? Or is it just the reason I am frustrated by that fact. Maybe they really are stopping making them...?

[Canyonrat]

Deleted. Double-post, this site is not IPad friendly. :-(

[GJM]

Deleted. Double-post, this site is not IPad friendly. :-(

Seems like plenty on Gunbroker.

[JPedersen]

Between my wife and I, we have about a half dozen HK45C pistols, and everyone has been reliable with the Underwood Lehigh. I would be extremely surprised if you have an issue with that pistol and load.Perfect ! Will order some asap.

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[GJM]

http://www.codyenterprise.com/news/local/article_042635c8-7334-11e8-83f4-ef39a43758ec.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=email&utm_campaign=user-share

[Sherman A. House DDS]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180619/0a2b086e94d26f54493bc32a133f1683.jpg

My USP .45, circa ‘97/98, in my armored truck days. WAY BEFORE USP’s were retro-cool. (Although I didn’t run the SLS until 04 or so? Maybe 03? I can’t recall.)


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[JHC]

http://www.codyenterprise.com/news/local/article_042635c8-7334-11e8-83f4-ef39a43758ec.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=email&utm_campaign=user-share

That hassle might incent a feller to skip packing the damn bear spray.

[GJM]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180619/0a2b086e94d26f54493bc32a133f1683.jpg

My USP .45, circa ‘97/98, in my armored truck days. WAY BEFORE USP’s were retro-cool. (Although I didn’t run the SLS until 04 or so? Maybe 03? I can’t recall.)


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With so much HK in your woodpile, how did you sink to the M&P? :p

[Wayne Dobbs]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180619/0a2b086e94d26f54493bc32a133f1683.jpg

My USP .45, circa ‘97/98, in my armored truck days. WAY BEFORE USP’s were retro-cool. (Although I didn’t run the SLS until 04 or so? Maybe 03? I can’t recall.)


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That is, without doubt, the finest pistol and duty belt I've ever seen on an armored car guy!

[Sherman A. House DDS]

That is, without doubt, the finest pistol and duty belt I've ever seen on an armored car guy!

Thanks Wayne! I have (and had) good mentors.


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[Sherman A. House DDS]

With so much HK in your woodpile, how did you sink to the M&P? :p

Well, as soon as I can test drive a LEM P30 in 9mm, I may very well change up. Until then, I like my double brace of M&P’s, thank you very much Good Sir!


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[GJM]

Well, as soon as I can test drive a LEM P30 in 9mm, I may very well change up. Until then, I like my double brace of M&P’s, thank you very much Good Sir!


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Maximum style points from AIWB’ing a USP Expert with a hybrid match LEM trigger.

[rodralig]

Whoa!?! Just found out of this thread a few minutes back...

------


The Streamlight TLR-3 has arrived, and am now switching my nightstand pistol to an H&K USP Expert 45 loaded with Federal Hydra-Shok! Just waiting for the Gunbox Echo to arrive and I am all set...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180620/d64b6ef9e101674d99c78f192b83fedd.jpg

I guess I wasn't wrong in choosing the H&K when my wife gifted me with my pistol of choice for my birthday earlier in the year. It basically eats anything! Quite versatile (DA/SA, cocked and locked, etc.). Has Kaliforniastan-capped 10-rounds of 45ACP. Handles recoil well (probably due to the heft/weight). Good ergonomics (at least for the size of my hands)... Most likely durable (as I'd see with videos of torture tests - cold, wet and unhappy circumstances). And deadly accurate (so easy to have 5-inch groups at 25-yards straight out of the box)!

In spite of the following

Fewer accessories compared to, say, a Glock
Accessories are more costly, in general
Using the proprietary magazine eject takes some added practice
What I personally feel as a long reset for SA

I am quite satisfied with it...!

While it would be my HD pistol - am already planning to take it out for tactical classes and/or action shooting matches.

Woot~~~~!!!


Note: The Expert comes with ALL black front and rear sights. Rear is adjustable for both Elevation and Windage. After its range debut, ordered Dawson Precision FO front sights, and re-adjusted the rear to have POA=POI at 25-yards using a center mass hold (front sight blade cuts through the bull).

_

[GJM]

Brown bear in AK kills hiker and also mauls searcher looking for him.

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/wildlife/2018/06/20/anchorage-police-responding-to-bear-mauling-in-eagle-river/?mc_cid=a3ca266583&mc_eid=544e762947

[Salamander]

I stopped by a LGS the other day, and was able to handle a USPf 45 and a 45 elite, and apparently they could get a 45 expert in easily enough. Not only do these fit my hand, they feel better than expected. And the elite balances surprisingly well.

Do I need one of these right now? No, not really. No plans to visit Alaska or the northern rockies in the immediate future, the only brown bears around here are on the state flag, and I have other HKs that are capable of handling what does occur locally. Still, it's tempting....

[GJM]

For me, the great thing about the USP FS and Tactical is I can wear them in an appendix holster under a t shirt. This is from a few days ago, hiking out in griz country.

27316

Later, back in town I had a bear encounter, but it ended well.

27317

[GJM]

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/rural-alaska/2018/06/23/this-isnt-how-im-dying-teenager-recounts-bear-attack-in-naknek-boatyard/

[Serpico1985]

GJM,

Ever handled and MK23? There aren’t many reviews out there from people I’d trust for an insightful impression into the gun. Just curious if you have any thoughts on it. Since it’s so overbuilt (capable of 30k of +P), would it ever be a reasonable choice as a dedicated 45 super launcher when concealment isn’t an issue? Or is it just to big?

[psalms144.1]

The Mk23 is HUGE. Overbuilt doesn't begin to describe it. So much so that it was pretty much DOA in the field - there's simply no point in lugging around a pistol that large and heavy. Frankly, I'd be surprised to find that it does anything better than a USP45F - but I'll admit I've never shot 45 Super out of either.

[Sherman A. House DDS]

I have some experience with the Mk23. It is Desert Eagle sized. It has a number of odd features. You could buy two USP .45’s (maybe 3?) for the price of one offensive pistol (Mk 23).


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[1slow]

I have had 3 MK23s. Very accurate, large etc... 9 1/2" OAL. Separate hammer drop, TINY safety levers. Probably meant to be carried DA first shot ? I much prefer the USP either cocked and locked or LEM/ Match hybrid.

MK23 is large etc..... but how many carry 4"+ revolvers that are as long and heavier ? Too big for me in AIWB. USP is fine for me in AIWB.

I like the HK USPT 45 better for 99% of any use. I also like the full size USP very well. USP Expert is also nice.

2002 American Handgunner Tactical Annual said 6000 rounds of .45 Super had been fired through a stock full size USP 45 with no damage. USP is overbuilt enough I think.

[GJM]

GJM,

Ever handled and MK23? There aren’t many reviews out there from people I’d trust for an insightful impression into the gun. Just curious if you have any thoughts on it. Since it’s so overbuilt (capable of 30k of +P), would it ever be a reasonable choice as a dedicated 45 super launcher when concealment isn’t an issue? Or is it just to big?

What ^^ those guys said.

[JHC]

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/rural-alaska/2018/06/23/this-isnt-how-im-dying-teenager-recounts-bear-attack-in-naknek-boatyard/

One needs a bear gun in built up areas in AK!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=49&v=YlHMzzZYtjc

[1911nerd]

GJM,

Ever handled and MK23? There aren’t many reviews out there from people I’d trust for an insightful impression into the gun. Just curious if you have any thoughts on it. Since it’s so overbuilt (capable of 30k of +P), would it ever be a reasonable choice as a dedicated 45 super launcher when concealment isn’t an issue? Or is it just to big?

The Mk23 was described to me by a former Navy door kicker as more akin to an SBR than a pistol. Honestly didn't seem to enthusiastic about it, but then he wasn't worried about Brown Bears, either.