HK USP 45 field pistol

[okie john]

Now back to the regularly scheduled HK programming -- I recently bought a like new USP 45, as it came with an additional OEM threaded barrel and Mepro tritium adjustable sights.

https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/USP-Tactical-Night-Sight-Set-Fully-Adjustable-200p1721.htm

Just shot the pistol, and was pleased that when regulated for tip of the front sight at 25 yards, they were nice and low. They are also relatively edge free and fit in my various USP holsters (Blade Tech, George, Fricke). For a fastidious person, like Okie John, who wants a perfect zero for hunting or shooting precision, I think these sights are an obvious choice.

Very much so. Nyeti sold me a set of LPAs during the early days of testing my USP 45, and it took about 10 minutes to center the group in the X-ring at 25 yards. That's probably overthinking things for a carry pistol, but just what the doctor ordered for more fastidious pursuits.


Okie John

[Lester Polfus]

How robust are the Meprolights? I don't have much use for adjustable on a "carry gun" but I think they might be worthwhile on a "field pistol." Some of my post-TBI visual accommodation issues are sorting out so I'm thinking of transitioning away from Big Dots.

[GJM]

How robust are the Meprolights? I don't have much use for adjustable on a "carry gun" but I think they might be worthwhile on a "field pistol." Some of my post-TBI visual accommodation issues are sorting out so I'm thinking of transitioning away from Big Dots.

They look OK, but I have no experience yet with bouncing them around.

[okie john]

How robust are the Meprolights? I don't have much use for adjustable on a "carry gun" but I think they might be worthwhile on a "field pistol." Some of my post-TBI visual accommodation issues are sorting out so I'm thinking of transitioning away from Big Dots.

I EDC'd a Gen3 G19L with them for over a year, during which time I fired 10k (conservative estimate) rounds. They loosened up a bit toward the end so I filled them full of blue LocTite. I can still adjust them if needed and they stay zeroed. No other complaints.


Okie John

[GJM]

I just received a FedEx box from HK, with my USP full size .40 and .45. HK converted both pistols from DA/SA to the hybrid LEM Match trigger, that is exclusive to the full size USP pistols. All I can say is WOW -- this is the best feeling trigger I can recall on any hammer fired HK. I am not sure why HK doesn't just provide this as the standard USP trigger.

Turn around was about two weeks, and the cost was quite modest, including reasonable prices for the installed parts and only $45 total labor for the two pistols.

[BCL]

I just received a FedEx box from HK, with my USP full size .40 and .45. HK converted both pistols from DA/SA to the hybrid LEM Match trigger, that is exclusive to the full size USP pistols. All I can say is WOW -- this is the best feeling trigger I can recall on any hammer fired HK. I am not sure why HK doesn't just provide this as the standard USP trigger.

Turn around was about two weeks, and the cost was quite modest, including reasonable prices for the installed parts and only $45 total labor for the two pistols.

Glad you like them! IMO, the Hybrid LEM doesn't even feel like an LEM trigger.

[JAD]

I just received a FedEx box from HK, with my USP full size .40 and .45. HK converted both pistols from DA/SA to the hybrid LEM Match trigger, that is exclusive to the full size USP pistols. All I can say is WOW -- this is the best feeling trigger I can recall on any hammer fired HK. I am not sure why HK doesn't just provide this as the standard USP trigger.

Turn around was about two weeks, and the cost was quite modest, including reasonable prices for the installed parts and only $45 total labor for the two pistols.

G, can you describe the trigger a little, in terms of take up length and wall?

Is this something just for USPs or can it be done to some of their other pistols?

[GJM]

G, can you describe the trigger a little, in terms of take up length and wall?

Is this something just for USPs or can it be done to some of their other pistols?

Just for FS USP models. Not a hard wall. Feels like the SA match trigger but with LEM amounts of take-up.

[El Cid]

Just for FS USP models. Not a hard wall. Feels like the SA match trigger but with LEM amounts of take-up.

Do they remove the safety? Or is that up to the customer? You're making me consider sending in my USP9. Always carried it cocked and locked because I like having the same press for every shot. But the SA press isn't that great - just better than the DA/SA option for me. It's a safe queen now but I'd probably shoot it more if I didn't have to screw with the safety.

[GJM]

Do they remove the safety? Or is that up to the customer? You're making me consider sending in my USP9. Always carried it cocked and locked because I like having the same press for every shot. But the SA press isn't that great - just better than the DA/SA option for me. It's a safe queen now but I'd probably shoot it more if I didn't have to screw with the safety.

I believe you can have it with or without thumb safety, but I have it without a thumb safety, which cleans up the grip for me.

[El Cid]

I believe you can have it with or without thumb safety, but I have it without a thumb safety, which cleans up the grip for me.

Excellent. Thanks. I've been carrying and competing with Glocks for over a decade now. Going back to a manual safety isn't something I want to do even casually.

[GJM]

Excellent. Thanks. I've been carrying and competing with Glocks for over a decade now. Going back to a manual safety isn't something I want to do even casually.

In this case, I think you will really like this trigger, as it feels like a long travel, very good Glock trigger.

[El Cid]

In this case, I think you will really like this trigger, as it feels like a long travel, very good Glock trigger.

Lol! Once again this site is costing me money. Did you contact them off the HK USA site?

And you said full size only? I have a USP 45 Compact that would benefit from this mod.

Looking forward to seeing your targets with the new trigger.

[GJM]

Lol! Once again this site is costing me money. Did you contact them off the HK USA site?

And you said full size only? I have a USP 45 Compact that would benefit from this mod.

Looking forward to seeing your targets with the new trigger.

Call HK at (706) 568-1906, select customer service, tell them you want a hybrid match LEM for your USP full size, and that you know Darryl Bolke. That is the magic combo that will cause them to issue you a RA, and in about two weeks from when they get your shipment, you will have a very nice trigger. Pricing was very reasonable -- about $109 for the LEM kit, $21 for the extra parts to make it a match LEM hybrid beyond the standard LEM, and just $45 total labor for two installs for me.

Note -- this is only available on a full size and not the compact, although there may be some version applicable to the Compact less certain parts like the over travel stop on the trigger.

[BCL]

Call HK at (706) 568-1906, select customer service, tell them you want a hybrid match LEM for your USP full size, and that you know Darryl Bolke. That is the magic combo that will cause them to issue you a RA, and in about two weeks from when they get your shipment, you will have a very nice trigger. Pricing was very reasonable -- about $109 for the LEM kit, $21 for the extra parts to make it a match LEM hybrid beyond the standard LEM, and just $45 total labor for two installs for me.

Note -- this is only available on a full size and not the compact, although there may be some version applicable to the Compact less certain parts like the over travel stop on the trigger.

That is much less expensive than the way I did it. I bought both an LEM kit and a Match kit, which ended up being about twice the price as the way you went. For the Compact, every part except for the actual trigger w/over travel stop will fit.

I'm interested to se your shooting results with the new triggers.

[Dagga Boy]

Call HK at (706) 568-1906, select customer service, tell them you want a hybrid match LEM for your USP full size, and that you know Darryl Bolke. That is the magic combo that will cause them to issue you a RA, and in about two weeks from when they get your shipment, you will have a very nice trigger. Pricing was very reasonable -- about $109 for the LEM kit, $21 for the extra parts to make it a match LEM hybrid beyond the standard LEM, and just $45 total labor for two installs for me.

Note -- this is only available on a full size and not the compact, although there may be some version applicable to the Compact less certain parts like the over travel stop on the trigger.

In case anyone thinks this is serious.....the folks who issue the RA will not have a clue who Darryl Bolke is......as GJM found out.

[JHC]

It appears that's about to change ;)

[GJM]

1) JHC, I was looking on the Hornady website, at the penetration data for Hornady Critical Duty. The 45+P seems to outperform the .40 in penetration, which is interesting. I didn't see penetration data for the 10mm load, have you seen it?

2) I got to shoot my USP 40 and 45 with the hybrid match LEM triggers. The good news is that I think they are a definite improvement over regular LEM, and over a DA first shot. I haven't shot them enough to compare against the SA part of a match DA/SA trigger. The bad news is I also shot a Glock 35 as a "control" pistol, and even with the new hybrid HK trigger, when going fast the Glock is still much easier to shoot drills like Garcia dots.

[JHC]

1) JHC, I was looking on the Hornady website, at the penetration data for Hornady Critical Duty. The 45+P seems to outperform the .40 in penetration, which is interesting. I didn't see penetration data for the 10mm load, have you seen it?

.

10mm http://www.hornady.com/store/10mm-Auto-175-GR-Flexlock-Critical-Duty/


and here: http://www.hornadyle.com/products/handgun/critical-duty/10mm-auto-175-gr-flexlock with gel test data


Why they are on two pages IDK

Re the .45 ACP - I bet that 220 grain CD load as fast as it is pretty strong.

[GJM]

10mm http://www.hornady.com/store/10mm-Auto-175-GR-Flexlock-Critical-Duty/


and here: http://www.hornadyle.com/products/handgun/critical-duty/10mm-auto-175-gr-flexlock with gel test data


Why they are on two pages IDK

Re the .45 ACP - I bet that 220 grain CD load as fast as it is pretty strong.

I see the penetration data through the different mediums with the .40 and .45 loads, but not the 10mm Critical Duty. Is it just my connection or am I looking in the wrong place?

[JHC]

I see the penetration data through the different mediums with the .40 and .45 loads, but not the 10mm Critical Duty. Is it just my connection or am I looking in the wrong place?

the 2nd of the two links has the testing data

http://www.hornadyle.com/products/handgun/critical-duty/10mm-auto-175-gr-flexlock

That link was the page open to the penetration data for the 10mm load.

[GJM]

Thanks, that worked. If you look at steel, plywood and glass, .45 and .357 Sig look darn good.

[GJM]

I would like to throw an online version of a hissy fit.

So, I get my Gen 3 Glock 29SF running today, with Hornady Critical Duty. Marvel at how small it is to carry, and how easy to shoot, compared to the HK. Look at the penetration and velocity data for the Hornady 10mm load, and worry that it is closer to .40 S&W performance, than 10mm. Drag out the new stash of 2016 Federal Trophy Bonded 10mm, which while not crazy hot/heavy, is more like what one associates with 10mm. Three rounds into the first magazine of Trophy Bonded, I get a stoppage. Change magazines, fill with Trophy Bonded, and a few rounds into another magazine, get another stoppage. In disgust, I put down the Glock 29 and shoot 63 rounds of .45 Super and .acp through my USP 45, of course without issue. So the Glock 29 really seems to work well with .40 S&W power factor ammo. :)

[MSparks909]

I would like to throw an online version of a hissy fit.

So, I get my Gen 3 Glock 29SF running today, with Hornady Critical Duty. Marvel at how small it is to carry, and how easy to shoot, compared to the HK. Look at the penetration and velocity data for the Hornady 10mm load, and worry that it is closer to .40 S&W performance, than 10mm. Drag out the new stash of 2016 Federal Trophy Bonded 10mm, which while not crazy hot/heavy, is more like what one associates with 10mm. Three rounds into the first magazine of Trophy Bonded, I get a stoppage. Change magazines, fill with Trophy Bonded, and a few rounds into another magazine, get another stoppage. In disgust, I put down the Glock 29 and shoot 63 rounds of .45 Super and .acp through my USP 45, of course without issue. So the Glock 29 really seems to work well with .40 S&W power factor ammo. :)

What kind of malfunction?

[BCL]

I would like to throw an online version of a hissy fit.

So, I get my Gen 3 Glock 29SF running today, with Hornady Critical Duty. Marvel at how small it is to carry, and how easy to shoot, compared to the HK. Look at the penetration and velocity data for the Hornady 10mm load, and worry that it is closer to .40 S&W performance, than 10mm. Drag out the new stash of 2016 Federal Trophy Bonded 10mm, which while not crazy hot/heavy, is more like what one associates with 10mm. Three rounds into the first magazine of Trophy Bonded, I get a stoppage. Change magazines, fill with Trophy Bonded, and a few rounds into another magazine, get another stoppage. In disgust, I put down the Glock 29 and shoot 63 rounds of .45 Super and .acp through my USP 45, of course without issue. So the Glock 29 really seems to work well with .40 S&W power factor ammo. :)

So you are saying that you can either have shootability or reliability with hot rounds but not both? Too bad on the G29.

[GJM]

So you are saying that you can either have shootability or reliability with hot rounds but not both? Too bad on the G29.

Yep, unfortunately, that is exactly what I am saying.

[Wayne Dobbs]

Let me guess: feedway stoppage with the real 10mm ammo. Sounds like the slide velocity is outrunning the magazine spring action?

[flyrodr]

Well George, I was eagerly awaiting your testing of 10mm loads in different guns, particularly the smaller G29.

But then I got it. Darn.

Do you think that playing around with spring weights in the G29 would improve reliability with the heavier loads? Or has that be tried?

Thanks.

[GJM]

Let me guess: feedway stoppage with the real 10mm ammo. Sounds like the slide velocity is outrunning the magazine spring action?

We have a winner!


Well George, I was eagerly awaiting your testing of 10mm loads in different guns, particularly the smaller G29.

But then I got it. Darn.

Do you think that playing around with spring weights in the G29 would improve reliability with the heavier loads? Or has that be tried?

Thanks.

Never really messed with recoil springs in the 29. Tried in the 20, and it didn't seem to make a difference.

The sweet spot of shootability and reliability seems to be Glock in 9mm and HK in 40/45.

[Dagga Boy]

What kind of malfunction?

The "Not shooting an HK kind".


We have a winner!



Never really messed with recoil springs in the 29. Tried in the 20, and it didn't seem to make a difference.

The sweet spot of shootability and reliability seems to be Glock in 9mm and HK in 40/45.

Believe it or not...I would actually agree with the caveat being some Glocks in 9mm and not all of them.

[LSP552]

I would like to throw an online version of a hissy fit.

So, I get my Gen 3 Glock 29SF running today, with Hornady Critical Duty. Marvel at how small it is to carry, and how easy to shoot, compared to the HK. Look at the penetration and velocity data for the Hornady 10mm load, and worry that it is closer to .40 S&W performance, than 10mm. Drag out the new stash of 2016 Federal Trophy Bonded 10mm, which while not crazy hot/heavy, is more like what one associates with 10mm. Three rounds into the first magazine of Trophy Bonded, I get a stoppage. Change magazines, fill with Trophy Bonded, and a few rounds into another magazine, get another stoppage. In disgust, I put down the Glock 29 and shoot 63 rounds of .45 Super and .acp through my USP 45, of course without issue. So the Glock 29 really seems to work well with .40 S&W power factor ammo. :)

Every time I start to get weak again towards a Glock 10mm.......you save me money.

Thanks George!

[45dotACP]

So then...aside from something like a 3rd gen 10mm smith...what would be a reliable 10mm blaster? A Colt Delta? Could a compensator slow the velocity appreciably enough to reduce slide velocity on a glock 20? Or perhaps a compensated Delta or Wilson?

[Dagga Boy]

So then...aside from something like a 3rd gen 10mm smith...what would be a reliable 10mm blaster? A Colt Delta? Could a compensator slow the velocity appreciably enough to reduce slide velocity on a glock 20? Or perhaps a compensated Delta or Wilson?

Every Delta I sold in my store was a wreck within a couple cases of full house real 10mm. Saw the same thing with hot HST and 1911's in .45 ACP. Personally, the 1911 is just not a good platform for hi velocity cartridges. With that said, I was recently at a shoot where I shot a SiG in 10mm. I liked it, and the gun ran all day with all levels of shooters (mostly not good ones) and so no malfunctions or issues. I almost did an impulse buy, but talked myself down.

[GJM]

So then...aside from something like a 3rd gen 10mm smith...what would be a reliable 10mm blaster

A USP 45 with Super ammo.

I think a 1911 in 10mm runs great with USPSA power factor loads. For heavy loads in a 1911, Bill W likes Super.

[El Cid]

So then...aside from something like a 3rd gen 10mm smith...what would be a reliable 10mm blaster? A Colt Delta? Could a compensator slow the velocity appreciably enough to reduce slide velocity on a glock 20? Or perhaps a compensated Delta or Wilson?

I'm still getting positive results from my G40 but with a 6" bbl/slide it's tough for concealed carry. I want it as a woods gun so that wasn't a concern.

I'm very interested in seeing a review from Sean M on his new custom 1911 in 10mm. Though as nyeti mentioned... 1911's can have issues. I was under the impression they need a shok buff or something similar for hot loads but can't say for sure.

Has anyone had success with the CZ clones from Witness? The 10mm Sig 5" P220 was the path I strongly considered until I got my paws on a G40.

And whatever happened with Vltor's attempt to resurrect the Bren 10?

[Lester Polfus]

Has anyone had success with the CZ clones from Witness?



I had success in wasting my time. Fortunately the fucking frame broke and EAA sent me a brand new gun and Tommy The Gun Pimp could recoup most of my money.

I'd take $500 out in the back yard and burn it before I'd buy another one. Only thing worse was the AMT Hardballer I bought on my 21st birthday.

[pastaslinger]

HK needs to sell some USP 45 Experts in the US...

[Dagga Boy]

HK needs to sell some USP 45 Experts in the US...

They did.....and didn't sell well. I have one in my safe that I carried a lot. One of the best shooting guns I have ever owned. I know a shop that has an Elite in it as of last week that was reasonable. With that long a barrel, should be wicked with the hot loads.

[pastaslinger]

They did.....and didn't sell well. I have one in my safe that I carried a lot. One of the best shooting guns I have ever owned. I know a shop that has an Elite in it as of last week that was reasonable. With that long a barrel, should be wicked with the hot loads.

I don't think they have sold a run of the .45s in the US for some time now. The most recent "special" run the US has gotten that I know of were .45 elites as a California exclusive but these are mostly gone, and before that were the 9mm experts which I think you are referring to that did not sell well. I think that same run of guns is what is being sold nowadays. There were also the combat competition models and those are all sold as far as I know.

HK pricing is also pretty screwed up. There is no reason the USP series should cost what it does nowadays; they either need to update or lower the price because the USP farce of a rail is totally outdated.
I mean they already make these guns for other markets they might as well sell them in the US... Though when you consider what they want for an expert in 9mm, you can get a very nice 1911 for that money, or any other number of nice guns for that money.

The .45 expert is appealing to me because it has the match trigger, the adjustable rear, has a longer barrel length, and the alternative which is the elite looks awful with the diagonal cut slide.

[OlongJohnson]

The most recent "special" run the US has gotten that I know of were .45 elites as a California exclusive but these are mostly gone, and before that were the 9mm experts which I think you are referring to that did not sell well. I think that same run of guns is what is being sold nowadays.

The .45 Elites went for $1000 a couple months ago. I'm pretty sure most of them were shipped outside CA, ironically enough.

At the end of 2014, when H&K had their $200 rebate on any USP, the 9mm Experts could be had for ~$950 shipped, before the rebate. So you could have one for ~$770 with transfer. The only ones that didn't sell well were the ones where the sellers wanted the prices that were typical before the run hit distribution, where you'd only see a few come up each year. They were almost all gone and it was back to $400 more than that a few months later.

There are deals to be had if you're patient, tuned in and a little bit lucky.

[GJM]

Just in from shooting my USP 40, which is growing on me. It is just enough smaller than the USP 45 to handle better for me.

I shot five rounds of Double Tap 200 hard cast (supposedly 1,100 fps +/-), which functioned and hit where they should. Refresh me if we have discussed this before, who has experience shooting limited quantities of lead through a USP barrel, and with regular cleaning is it OK?

[BCL]

Just in from shooting my USP 40, which is growing on me. It is just enough smaller than the USP 45 to handle better for me.

I shot five rounds of Double Tap 200 hard cast (supposedly 1,100 fps +/-), which functioned and hit where they should. Refresh me if we have discussed this before, who has experience shooting limited quantities of lead through a USP barrel, and with regular cleaning is it OK?

I believe it's LSP972, or the HK LSP not the Sig/Glock LSP. :) Personally, I think if you run a bore snake down it every couple hundred rounds you should be fine.

[LSP552]

I believe it's LSP972, or the HK LSP not the Sig/Glock LSP. :) Personally, I think if you run a bore snake down it every couple hundred rounds you should be fine.

Outstanding! And correct.....since the SIG/Glock LSP doesn't know squat about HKs other than I cant shoot a LEM worth a darn.

[Dagga Boy]

Just in from shooting my USP 40, which is growing on me. It is just enough smaller than the USP 45 to handle better for me.

I shot five rounds of Double Tap 200 hard cast (supposedly 1,100 fps +/-), which functioned and hit where they should. Refresh me if we have discussed this before, who has experience shooting limited quantities of lead through a USP barrel, and with regular cleaning is it OK?

I know you shouldn't with polygonal rifled barrels. I had a deputy friend/pilot who was a serious shooter. He had some serious issues running a Glock 21 with a lot of lead and had to get a aftermarket barrel. When I was shooting a ton of lead reloads, I had a Jarvis conventional rifled barrel for my USP.....which also shot fantastic with agency training reloads.

[GJM]

I know you shouldn't with polygonal rifled barrels. I had a deputy friend/pilot who was a serious shooter. He had some serious issues running a Glock 21 with a lot of lead and had to get a aftermarket barrel. When I was shooting a ton of lead reloads, I had a Jarvis conventional rifled barrel for my USP.....which also shot fantastic with agency training reloads.

Unfortunately, Jarvis doesn't make a barrel for the USP 40 FS. (They do make one for the USP Compact.)

[GJM]

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=59

Hard Cast Bullets in Polygonal Barrels
HARD CAST BULLETS IN POLYGONAL BARRELS

THE SOURCE OF THE MYTH

True hard cast bullets (as opposed to lead swaged bullets) that are properly lubed will not lead foul polygonal barrels any more than any other type of rifled barrel. Ever since Glock Corporation warned to not use lead bullets in their pistols with polygonal barrels, a myth that hard cast bullets will lead foul polygonal barrels has become wide spread in some parts of the firearms world. However, the myth is untrue. Hard cast bullets are not "lead" bullets. (See my article on "Dangerous Pure Lead Cowboy Bullets") Folks (especially folks involved in the shooting industry) have a strong tendency to generalize most everything……if you do this, you’ll end up with generalized results as opposed to exacting results. Because hard cast bullets are grey in color, does NOT make them “lead” bullets.

Pure lead or nearly pure lead bullets have a tendency to foul any barrel, not just polygonal barrels. Years ago, when several Glock pistols experienced cracked barrels because of lead fouling build up from shooting pure lead bullets, Glock issued a warning not to shoot lead bullets in their polygonal barrels. From that warning, the myth that you should not shoot hard cast bullets in polygonal barrels was born. This myth was born because folks see that grey colored hard cast bullet and ASSUME it has anything to do with pure “lead”, which it does not, at least when it comes to characteristics and dynamics that make bullets perform!

HARD CAST BULLETS DO NOT FOUL

Provided you use real hard cast bullets, that are properly sized and utilize good lube, you can shoot them all you like in polygonal barrels without causing lead fouling deposits at the front of your chamber or anywhere else in the barrel. I have fired literally thousands of properly alloyed, lubed and sized hard cast bullets from my various Glock pistols and have never experienced any metallic fouling build-up of any consequence. If I did that same amount of shooting with cheap pure lead swaged bullets of unknown origin, I could have severely lead fouled my barrels, to the point of creating a bore obstruction and possible cracking or bursting a barrel. However, in my experience, quality hard cast bullets won't foul a Glock polygonal barrel or any other type of barrel but lead bullets normally will.

[JAD]

Just for FS USP models. Not a hard wall. Feels like the SA match trigger but with LEM amounts of take-up.

I am intrigued.

[flyrodr]

I would like to throw an online version of a hissy fit.

So, I get my Gen 3 Glock 29SF running today, with Hornady Critical Duty . . . Drag out the new stash of 2016 Federal Trophy Bonded 10mm . . . Three rounds into the first magazine of Trophy Bonded, I get a stoppage. Change magazines, fill with Trophy Bonded, and a few rounds into another magazine, get another stoppage . . .

Went to the range today with my G29SF, essentially the same as George's. Had some Remington green box, Hornady Critical Duty, and the Federal Trophy Bonded. First two ran fine. Then crossed fingers and ran three mags of five rounds each of the Federal TB. First two mags ran fine. Third one fed first four, and then slide locked back with last round still in magazine. If gun had been a 1911, I might have thought my support thumb pushed up the slide lock. Pretty hard to do that on a Glock. I'm thinking that last round is when the bear chomps down on you . . .

Sample size of two . . .

[BCL]

If gun had been a 1911, I might have thought my support thumb pushed up the slide lock. Pretty hard to do that on a Glock.

I've done this several times on a Glock that had a factory extended slide stop. Not saying that it isn't the Federal TB, just that it is definitely possible if you have the certain parts installed.

[cheby]

I've done this several times on a Glock that had a factory extended slide stop. Not saying that it isn't the Federal TB, just that it is definitely possible if you have the certain parts installed.

This.

I have done this several times on various Glocks as well. Definitely possible especially with hot ammo

[GJM]

Went to the range today with my G29SF, essentially the same as George's. Had some Remington green box, Hornady Critical Duty, and the Federal Trophy Bonded. First two ran fine. Then crossed fingers and ran three mags of five rounds each of the Federal TB. First two mags ran fine. Third one fed first four, and then slide locked back with last round still in magazine. If gun had been a 1911, I might have thought my support thumb pushed up the slide lock. Pretty hard to do that on a Glock. I'm thinking that last round is when the bear chomps down on you . . .

Sample size of two . . .

With both my recent Trophy Bonded stoppages, the slide locked back, although there were rounds left in the magazine each time. I just don't recall any stoppages in about 100 rounds of the TB, when it first came out around three years ago. While it has been some time, this year's batch of it seemed snappier. Given that it disappeared from the market for a few years, I bet they reformulated it, to make it "better." This only reinforces my belief that the G29 is a great, compact pistol to launch .40 power ammo, proving just as with micro 1911 pistols, there is no such thing as a free lunch.

If I decide to shoot hard cast, in any quantity, as a field load through my USP 40, I will probably buy another OEM barrel, and reserve one barrel for the hard cast in small quantities, and keep the other for FMJ/JHP loads.

[GJM]

Duplicate post

[GJM]

I've done this several times on a Glock that had a factory extended slide stop. Not saying that it isn't the Federal TB, just that it is definitely possible if you have the certain parts installed.


This.

I have done this several times on various Glocks as well. Definitely possible especially with hot ammo

I ran into this with Vickers slide stops in .40/10, and even Glock OEM extended slide stops in 10mm. Now, I run the small OEM slide stops in all my .40/10mm Glock pistols. With my recent issues with Trophy Bonded, I was running the small, OEM part.

[GJM]

I've done this several times on a Glock that had a factory extended slide stop. Not saying that it isn't the Federal TB, just that it is definitely possible if you have the certain parts installed.


This.

I have done this several times on various Glocks as well. Definitely possible especially with hot ammo

I had an interesting conversation with a guy out near our remote cabin this morning. He was looking for a better bear handgun than his .357 revolver with Buffalo Bore hard cast. Was considering the 10mm Glock model 40, and some .357 magnum 1911. After some discussion, I suggested he would be better off with his current rig -- the .357 revolt with hard cast.

It occurs to me, that for many, an eight shot, four or five inch S&W .357 that could be loaded with hard cast or JHP, depending upon mission, would be a pretty darn good field gun for many users.

[BCL]

I had an interesting conversation with a guy out near our remote cabin this morning. He was looking for a better bear handgun than his .357 revolver with Buffalo Bore hard cast. Was considering the 10mm Glock model 40, and some .357 magnum 1911. After some discussion, I suggested he would be better off with his current rig -- the .357 revolt with hard cast.

It occurs to me, that for many, an eight shot, four or five inch S&W .357 that could be loaded with hard cast or JHP, depending upon mission, would be a pretty darn good field gun for many users.

I personally would rather use a USP45, since reloads are far easier. Although, I guess for a woods gun, if you have to reload either under stress you are pretty far up shit's creek without a paddle...

[El Cid]

I had an interesting conversation with a guy out near our remote cabin this morning. He was looking for a better bear handgun than his .357 revolver with Buffalo Bore hard cast. Was considering the 10mm Glock model 40, and some .357 magnum 1911. After some discussion, I suggested he would be better off with his current rig -- the .357 revolt with hard cast.

It occurs to me, that for many, an eight shot, four or five inch S&W .357 that could be loaded with hard cast or JHP, depending upon mission, would be a pretty darn good field gun for many users.

Maybe sneak in a couple of the LeHigh Def/Underwood solid copper Extreme Penetrators?

[LSP552]

I had an interesting conversation with a guy out near our remote cabin this morning. He was looking for a better bear handgun than his .357 revolver with Buffalo Bore hard cast. Was considering the 10mm Glock model 40, and some .357 magnum 1911. After some discussion, I suggested he would be better off with his current rig -- the .357 revolt with hard cast.

It occurs to me, that for many, an eight shot, four or five inch S&W .357 that could be loaded with hard cast or JHP, depending upon mission, would be a pretty darn good field gun for many users.

I brought a 4" model 66 to Alaska once but kept it hid so no one would take my man card.......

But I agree completely that it would not be a bad option, since a .357 can be shot rather well by most with some practice. I'm not sure the same can be said about the larger mag revolvers.

Rightly or wrongly, I've felt better carrying a stoutly loaded Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt than the DA .357.

[GJM]

I personally would rather use a USP45, since reloads are far easier. Although, I guess for a woods gun, if you have to reload either under stress you are pretty far up shit's creek without a paddle...

Me too, for a bunch of reasons -- better sights, reliability, easier to reload, more capacity, more comfortable in recoil/ounce of gun empty weight, and my overall proficiency with semi-auto pistols. However, with a few exceptions, if you aren't carrying an HK, I worry that unsatisfactory reliability trumps the other semi-auto benefits.


Maybe sneak in a couple of the LeHigh Def/Underwood solid copper Extreme Penetrators?

These may be THE answer for a penetrating load that actually functions in mist semi-auto pistols.


I brought a 4" model 66 to Alaska once but kept it hid so no one would take my man card.......

But I agree completely that it would not be a bad option, since a .357 can be shot rather well by most with some practice. I'm not sure the same can be said about the larger mag revolvers.

Rightly or wrongly, I've felt better carrying a stoutly loaded Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt than the DA .357.

Yeah, we keep a .357 as a loaner for visiting females.

I was pretty convinced of the superiority of my Bowen tuned .44 Blackhawk, until I took the Gunsite backcountry course. While the SA revolver is a great choice for hunting, and comfortably shooting heavy rounds, bear attacks are an ECQC distance event where the DA revolver unquestionably is several clicks ahead of any SA revolver n an entanglement.

[LSP552]

Yeah, we keep a .357 as a loaner for visiting females.

I was pretty convinced of the superiority of my Bowen tuned .44 Blackhawk, until I took the Gunsite backcountry course. While the SA revolver is a great choice for hunting, and comfortably shooting heavy rounds, bear attacks are an ECQC distance event where the DA revolver unquestionably is several clicks ahead of any SA revolver n an entanglement.

Im not arguing a DA wouldn't be better. Perhaps I really just need a mint condition 629.......

I wanted to like the 4" Redhawk but just can't warm up to it. It's a pig.....

[GJM]

Im not arguing a DA wouldn't be better. Perhaps I really just need a mint condition 629.......

I wanted to like the 4" Redhawk but just can't warm up to it. It's a pig.....

I have a Bowen Alpine four inch Redhawk, zeroed for the heavy Garrett .44 magnum pills, for where the are numerous bears and I don't have a long gun handy. Then I decided that was a stupid idea. And, not just because the Redhawk weighs so much.

[LtDave]

Unfortunately, Jarvis doesn't make a barrel for the USP 40 FS. (They do make one for the USP Compact.)
Or you could look for an early USP .40 that came with a conventionally rifled barrel. I have one, 1994 vintage.

[BCL]

HKParts.net has some conventionally rifled USP40 threaded barrels that are made by RCM. No idea if they are good or not.

Link: https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/USP-40-Tactical-Threaded-Barrel-9-16-X-24-265p17744.htm

[GJM]

Or you could look for an early USP .40 that came with a conventionally rifled barrel. I have one, 1994 vintage.

Do you know what years had those?

[BCL]

Do you know what years had those?

According to the Pro site reference library, the chance came in 1994. I guess you could look for used ones that are KD or prior date coded.

[El Cid]

According to the Pro site reference library, the chance came in 1994. I guess you could look for used ones that are KD or prior date coded.

My USP9 has conventional rifling from the factory. Purchased new in 1995 or 1996. I'll have to check the date code when I get home.

[GJM]

I feel like I have made a lot of progress lately in shooting my USP 40 decently. Factors in no particular order are the hybrid match LEM trigger, the base pads that provide a ledge for my little finger improving my grip, putting on HD sights (which hit tip of the front sight rather than drive the dot like my USP 45), the smaller size of the 40 compared to the 45, where I am now placing my finger on the trigger to get a straight back press, and a fair number of rounds down range working on rolling the LEM trigger while simultaneously keeping extra visual attention through the longer pull. It is growing on me, and when I get down to my USP 9 Tactical in lower 48, I will send it in for the same trigger to use as a sub caliber trainer for the USP series.

[El Cid]

Thought we could edit our older posts. Maybe the software update changed that?

Anyway - just checked and my mid 90's USP9 with traditional rifling from HK is a KE gun.

[GJM]

Thought we could edit our older posts. Maybe the software update changed that?

Anyway - just checked and my mid 90's USP9 with traditional rifling from HK is a KE gun.

Anyone know whether a 94 vintage USP can be converted to the match LEM? A list member vaguely recalled that perhaps the real old ones could not be converted.

[GJM]

OK, really big HK news in my household.

At the end of our regular practice session, I put down my CZ/DP Pro, and started shooting my USP 40, which grows on me by the hour. Near the end, my wife said "you have ten rounds of .40 left, how about I shoot five thru the HK?" She did, and then asked to shoot the remaining five rounds. Then the earth moved -- she said "hey, why don't you get me one of those HK things, with that same trigger, and a Safariland holster, so I can wear that in the field." I was floored. My wife started shooting with an HK, a P7M8 in the late 80's, switched to Glock, and has shot a Glock exclusively for the last 25+ years. She then gave me the "I am still a Glock girl at heart speech, but that a big trigger guard, reliable, point and shoot blaster has merit for hard use in the field, when hunting, fishing, etc."

[BCL]

OK, really big HK news in my household.

At the end of our regular practice session, I put down my CZ/DP Pro, and started shooting my USP 40, which grows on me by the hour. Near the end, my wife said "you have ten rounds of .40 left, how about I shoot five thru the HK?" She did, and then asked to shoot the remaining five rounds. Then the earth moved -- she said "hey, why don't you get me one of those HK things, with that same trigger, and a Safariland holster, so I can wear that in the field." I was floored. My wife started shooting with an HK, a P7M8 in the late 80's, switched to Glock, and has shot a Glock exclusively for the last 25+ years. She then gave me the "I am still a Glock girl at heart speech, but that a big trigger guard, reliable, point and shoot blaster has merit for hard use in the field, when hunting, fishing, etc."

Holy smokes! That I was definitely not expecting!

[El Cid]

Anyone know whether a 94 vintage USP can be converted to the match LEM? A list member vaguely recalled that perhaps the real old ones could not be converted.

I sure hope so now that you got my hopes up! Lol! I plan to call HK but it will be a couple weeks. Have a bunch of crap keeping me busy right now.

[BCL]

Anyone know whether a 94 vintage USP can be converted to the match LEM? A list member vaguely recalled that perhaps the real old ones could not be converted.

I believe it can. You would need to buy, at a minimum, a new stye hammer strut (https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/Hammer-Strut-New-Style-for-HK45-USP-Full-Size-265p1250.htm), new style catch (https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/Catch-For-HK-USP-265p1176.htm), and new style control latch (https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/Control-Latch-For-HK45-HK45C-USP-USPC-265p1174.htm). I have a '99 USP40 that I converted using only those parts. Not sure on the parts changes between '94 and '99. You may also (although I don't think so) need to replace the firing pin block (https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/Firing-Pin-Block-New-Style-HK-Pistols-265p1285.htm) and the firing pin (https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/Firing-Pin-For-USP-9-40-45-Full-Size-Pistols-New-Style-265p1565.htm) with the new style parts. You would also then need to purchase the match hybrid LEM parts (LEM kit, nickel-plated sear spring, match catch, match trigger).

[GJM]

I believe it can. You would need to buy, at a minimum, a new stye hammer strut (https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/Hammer-Strut-New-Style-for-HK45-USP-Full-Size-265p1250.htm), new style catch (https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/Catch-For-HK-USP-265p1176.htm), and new style control latch (https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/Control-Latch-For-HK45-HK45C-USP-USPC-265p1174.htm). I have a '99 USP40 that I converted using only those parts. Not sure on the parts changes between '94 and '99. You may also (although I don't think so) need to replace the firing pin block (https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/Firing-Pin-Block-New-Style-HK-Pistols-265p1285.htm) and the firing pin (https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/Firing-Pin-For-USP-9-40-45-Full-Size-Pistols-New-Style-265p1565.htm) with the new style parts. You would also then need to purchase the match hybrid LEM parts (LEM kit, nickel-plated sear spring, match catch, match trigger).

That is good, as I would like to end up with a pre-polygonal barrel and match Hybrid LEM, which basically means 1994.

[BCL]

That is good, as I would like to end up with a pre-polygonal barrel and match Hybrid LEM, which basically means 1994.

Agreed, I wish Jarvis (or KKM or Bar-Sto, etc) made barrels for the USP40. I would call HK and see what they say on converting the '94 to match hybrid LEM. They should have the most accurate list of all of the parts needed to for the conversion, if they support it.

[YVK]

OK, really big HK news in my household.

At the end of our regular practice session, I put down my CZ/DP Pro, and started shooting my USP 40, which grows on me by the hour. Near the end, my wife said "you have ten rounds of .40 left, how about I shoot five thru the HK?" She did, and then asked to shoot the remaining five rounds. Then the earth moved -- she said "hey, why don't you get me one of those HK things, with that same trigger, and a Safariland holster, so I can wear that in the field." I was floored. My wife started shooting with an HK, a P7M8 in the late 80's, switched to Glock, and has shot a Glock exclusively for the last 25+ years. She then gave me the "I am still a Glock girl at heart speech, but that a big trigger guard, reliable, point and shoot blaster has merit for hard use in the field, when hunting, fishing, etc."

Holy shit.

Stuff like that makes me believe that Trump can take it. 'Cause if he did, I could certainly say then "stranger things have happened".


P.S. Only very classy people start their shooting career with a P7M8. Only smartest of those classy people ditch that gun for something else without prejudice. I only know two people like that although I don't pretend to know all of such remarkable folk. You're one lucky man, in marriage and in friendship.

[GJM]

I scored a 1994 USP 40 FS today, that I believe has the pre-polygonal barrel. Will see next week when it arrives. Will ring it out with Double Tap hard cast, and hopefully verify reliability. The load is 200 grains of hard cast at nearly 1,100 fps, and should work well on critters if it functions.

My wife decided if she was carrying an HK in the field, it might as well be the USP 45 with 45 Super ammo. She shot a USP 45 with Super and .acp ammo this afternoon. She shot fast, slow for accuracy, and with a quite loose grip one hand, trying to induce stoppages. None were experienced, so that was a really good thing. I need to get her a left hand retention holster that will work on her Safariland rig, and she will be off to the races with it.

[BCL]

I scored a 1994 USP 40 FS today, that I believe has the pre-polygonal barrel. Will see next week when it arrives. Will ring it out with Double Tap hard cast, and hopefully verify reliability. The load is 200 grains of hard cast at nearly 1,100 fps, and should work well on critters if it functions.

My wife decided if she was carrying an HK in the field, it might as well be the USP 45 with 45 Super ammo. She shot a USP 45 with Super and .acp ammo this afternoon. She shot fast, slow for accuracy, and with a quite loose grip one hand, trying to induce stoppages. None were experienced, so that was a really good thing. I need to get her a left hand retention holster that will work on her Safariland rig, and she will be off to the races with it.

You sure work fast! Hope the USP40 eats the 200gr ammo for breakfast.

Good news on the USP45 being super reliable. As far as retention holsters that fit a Safariland rig, only ones I can think of off the top of my head are possibly the Edge Works XST holster and the Blade-Tech WRS. There are only three downsides to owning HKs: Anything that has to do with a timer, holster compatibility and the lack of aftermarket parts, particularly sights.

[LSP972]

I scored a 1994 USP 40 FS today, that I believe has the pre-polygonal barrel. .

If it does, it is the first production version. Depending on how much it has been shot, you might need to buy a new recoil dual spring unit; not that expensive, and good for 10K rounds unless you are shooting a lot of "extra power" ammo. I'm sure you know that .40 is NOT rated for +P, as it were, but you're into using heavier cast bullets for critters you have had to put down. Agreed; better than factory ball or JHPs for that. The thing about the non-polygonal barrel is you can shoot what you want, with cast/non-jacketed bullets, and not to have to keep a close eye on the bore.:D

.

[GJM]

Towards the end of our practice session today, my wife shot the USP 45 some more. Still no stoppages, and with the Buffalo Bore 230 F J-FP at 1,060 fps, subjectively softer in recoil for her than a G20 with 200 grain at 1,200 fps ammo. Here she is shooting the USP with the Super ammo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF4j4q9yOPQ

[BCL]

Towards the end of our practice session today, my wife shot the USP 45 some more. Still no stoppages, and with the Buffalo Bore 230 F J-FP at 1,060 fps, subjectively softer in recoil for her than a G20 with 200 grain at 1,200 fps ammo. Here she is shooting the USP with the Super ammo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF4j4q9yOPQ

Not having shot either, that is good to know. Especially when you have found that the USP40 has more felt recoil than a G35.

[GJM]

Not having shot either, that is good to know. Especially when you have found that the USP40 has more felt recoil than a G35.

While the G35 is still softer, or at least recoils with less muzzle rise for me, the extended base plate on the USP 40 has fixed its controllability issues for me. Amazing what a difference a small piece of plastic makes.

[BCL]

While the G35 is still softer, or at least recoils with less muzzle rise for me, the extended base plate on the USP 40 has fixed its controllability issues for me. Amazing what a difference a small piece of plastic makes.

Good to hear. Not surprised at all that the G35 has less muzzle rise. Glad to hear the extended base plate is working out for you. I don't need them personally, even on smaller HKs due to my smallish hands. Is the performance delta between the two much smaller now? The most interesting to me would be the performance difference at speed between 15-25 yards, as that is where Glocks seem to shine the most, at least for me.

[GJM]

Was just shooting my USP 40 in the rain, along with rifles.

Having the HD sights hit tip of the front sight helps much with longer range (the USP 45 is more drive the dot). Using just red box Federal AE 180 grain ammo, I was able to work to 100 yards on eight inch steel, where I was hitting 2/3 at that distance, which with iron sights is some of the best shooting on that size steel I recall lately. Really liking my USP 40.

[StraitR]

Was just shooting my USP 40 in the rain, along with rifles.

Having the HD sights hit tip of the front sight helps much with longer range (the USP 45 is more drive the dot). Using just red box Federal AE 180 grain ammo, I was able to work to 100 yards on eight inch steel, where I was hitting 2/3 at that distance, which with iron sights is some of the best shooting on that size steel I recall lately. Really liking my USP 40.

Is that the circa 1994 USP 40 barrel G? Wouldn't worry too much about the 45 shooting drive the dot since that orange dot will be swimming in a sea of brown bear should you need it.

[GJM]

Is that the circa 1994 USP 40 barrel G? Wouldn't worry too much about the 45 shooting drive the dot since that orange dot will be swimming in a sea of brown bear should you need it.

Nope the older USP and barrel is "in the mail" headed north!

[OlongJohnson]

Got tired of reading back through the thread looking for the answer. Did you ever settle on a Super load you like best? Or have updates since the last mentions?

[GJM]

I have successfully shot well north of 500 rounds of Buffalo Bore 230 FMJ-FP .45 Super through multiple USP 45 pistols, and right now that is my go to field load. I have been using the Hornady +P Critical Duty load as my JHP, as it has been very accurate in these pistols, and seems a JHP with excellent penetration. Haven't done so yet, but I also want to evaluate the Underwood .45 Super, 200 grain Xtreme Penetrator load.

My wife is also about to begin carrying a USP 45 as a field pistol, despite her long term affection for Glock, because of reliability considerations. We want to figure out whether a USP 45 Compact will function reliably with a limited diet of either the Buffalo Bore or Underwood Xtreme penetrator Super load, for when she is flying, as the FS USP is big for her to fly wearing.

[GJM]

OK, grabbed the USP C and HK45C in town, and did some preliminary testing this evening.

First I shot the USP C 45 with Hornady Critical Duty as my control load. Functioned fine and hit POI. Next I went to 45 Super, with the Buffalo Bore 230 FMJ-FP load in an HK good condition eight round magazine. Started shooting, and gun felt good, right up until I had a stoppage on the last cartridge. The round was nosed up, in a way I associate with a Glock 40 and excessive slide speed. Loaded another magazine, and experienced the same stoppage on the next to last cartridge in the magazine. Not surprising, as the Super is likely to generate greater slide velocity.

Next, I shot the HK45C, with some trepidation, as the USP C slide seems beefier. Got through the first magazine without issue, although the load felt snappy. Second magazine also good. Then did some loose grip weak hand shooting without issue. Shows some promise for my wife's request for a smaller footprint Super launcher, although I am by happy with the USP 45 FS and dual recoil spring, or USP 40 FS and the Lehigh Xtreme bullet and hopefully hard cast.

[rjohnson4405]

Yes, keep testing! I have an HK45C that is my hiking gun and while we have small bears down here, I like it for backing up on hogs or my eventual Alaska trip.

[GJM]

I shot the HK45C some more this morning, and it ran the BB 45 230 FMJ-FP Super ammo. Then my wife shot it. First with Speer 200 TMJ ammo, and no matter how she held the pistol, no stoppages. I then loaded in Super ammo, forgetting to tell her, and she didn't say anything until I told her, at which point she offered it might have been a little more snappy. She then shot more, including one handed, and no issue.

I am not planning to feed it much Super, but I am guardedly optimistic the HK45C will function with at least the Buffalo Bore Super load.

[Turkina]

Best deal going for a threaded barrel for the USP45F.

http://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/hk-usp-barrels/217702

Should work fine, but if you want the full program, you'll need the recoil assembly, too. And probably sights if you go round.

the USP 9mm needs a different recoil spring for shooting suppressed. The USP 45 does not.

[Turkina]

I have read the RCM barrels are good barrels, though I have not bought one yet.

I have USP 40 LEM and I replaced the TRS with a Light TRS and it alone is a great improvement.

The USP 9 and USP 40 have the exact same frame size. You can swap slides back and forth without an issue.

I bought a 9mm SD slide and use it on my 40 frame. I have a Jarvis threaded barrel, and using the Tactical Recoil spring, I shoot it suppressed on raccoons and other small critters I use hollow points because round nose goes through them... and damages my trap on occasion. This may be a good solution for your porcupines.

I love my 9mm USP Expert. I also love the Light LEM using 9mm or .40. (The wife also has a 9mm USP.)

Just for fun, I bought a 6" .40 HK USP barrel. It is extremely accurate, but locks tight and causes stoppages because of the tight lock. I need to shoot it more or sand it just a little...

When i get the side money... I want to have a 9x23 Winchester barrel made for them. .357 magnum power in an auto...

Anyway, I have enjoyed the read.

[Turkina]

just as a side note, there have been several people who converted a USP 40 to a 10mm. (HKPro has several threads on it, with a few being done recently)

[GJM]

At the risk of causing Darryl to feel even smarter, I am starting to think for an outdoorsy person, the USP45/HK45C combo is the the superior alternative to the Glock 20/29 combo.

[Dagga Boy]

At the risk of causing Darryl to feel even smarter, I am starting to think for an outdoorsy person, the USP45/HK45C combo is the the superior alternative to the Glock 20/29 combo.

I told you...ditch the timer for a Rolex GMT, and you will figure it out. It's that stupid timer thingy that has you all worked up. A gentleman simply destroys evil doers with a sophisticates pistol, checks his timepiece for an aproximate idea of the actual time and moves on to deciding upon where to partake in a proper meal or cup of coffee and a good cigar.

[chl442]

I told you...ditch the timer for a Rolex GMT, and you will figure it out. It's that stupid timer thingy that has you all worked up. A gentleman simply destroys evil doers with a sophisticates pistol, checks his timepiece for an aproximate idea of the actual time and moves on to deciding upon where to partake in a proper meal or cup of coffee and a good cigar.


Guess I need to start working on sophisticated time pieces .....

[GJM]

You sir, have a serious 45C problem!

[chl442]

[QUOTE=GJM;481056]You sir, have a serious 45C problem![/QUO

It's all Darryl's fault ! LOL , I have a serious P2000 LEM problem as well,and to a lesser extent a G19 problem. I still keep G19s for saltwater excursions , but 2 days with Darryl and Wayne sealed
the deal that I made the right decision on the HK LEM's which is what I use 99 percent of the time.
Now to swap out my CED 7000 for a Rolex Sub.
Chris

[Dagga Boy]

As soon as you swap a timer for a Rolex, you will immediately start shooting faster....in your mind at least and that is really all that matters.

[BCL]

As soon as you swap a timer for a Rolex, you will immediately start shooting faster....in your mind at least and that is really all that matters.

Darryl, If I can only afford 1 HK and 1 Rolex or 2 HKs, which should I get? :D

[Poconnor]

what about an HK45 or HK45 compact with heavier recoil springs? Better grip, better rail. You can throw a Surefire x300 on the HK45. ( when is Surefire going to make a light for the compact ?) or just use as is with federal HST +p?

[GJM]

just as a side note, there have been several people who converted a USP 40 to a 10mm. (HKPro has several threads on it, with a few being done recently)

Last night I perused those threads, and it seems more hobby oriented than something you would want to use for serious use, given magazine choices and comments like, "well it won't eject a loaded cartridge because the ejection port is too small, but why is that a problem?" :)


what about an HK45 or HK45 compact with heavier recoil springs? Better grip, better rail. You can throw a Surefire x300 on the HK45. ( when is Surefire going to make a light for the compact ?) or just use as is with federal HST +p?

Have been discussing the HK45C for the last page or two. As to HST 230+P, that chrono'd at 850 fps in my FS USP, and I would hate to rely on that load, between velocity and being a JHP, to get through the skull of a bear.

[Turkina]

You can get the 45 to 40 conversion kit, bit it is a German sales item.

I was just tossing it out there after reading 35 pages of the thread in one sitting.

[Dagga Boy]

Darryl, If I can only afford 1 HK and 1 Rolex or 2 HKs, which should I get? :D

Was that an actual question....1 HK 1 Rolex....duh. I got my Rolex as my 21st birthday present to me. The only watch I have ever used, I don't take it off, and other than being sent in for service a few times, it has been on my wrist 24/7 for 30 years and a ton of pure abuse. Guns on the other hand have been fairly cyclical. I do still have my first HK P7M13, just haven't carried it in 20 plus years.

[Dagga Boy]

You can get the 45 to 40 conversion kit, bit it is a German sales item.

I was just tossing it out there after reading 35 pages of the thread in one sitting.

I actually think GJM has really hit the best solution for a "Outdoors Defensive Pistol" with the right gun for the right cartridge. Lots of "close" in the past, but I think the USP45 running 45 Super is the solution.

[1slow]

I actually think GJM has really hit the best solution for a "Outdoors Defensive Pistol" with the right gun for the right cartridge. Lots of "close" in the past, but I think the USP45 running 45 Super is the solution.
I very much appreciate GJM and Your efforts in this direction. I also appreciated all the information you gave me at the 2016 Tactical Conference about HK USP45s and HK 45s.
Thanks,
Court

[GJM]

Shot some more BB 230 FMJ-FP Super through the HK45C -- still yet to experience a stoppage.

My wife is spooled up enough, that she is now carrying a USP 45 with BB Super ammo in a Blade Tech WRS retention holster in the field. Next is getting her HK45C going after getting HK to install a trigger and me getting a Mitch Rosen Upper Limit and Safariland 7TS for it.

[GJM]

I think I mentioned previously, that I found a "minty" 1994 USP 40 FS on GB, with the pre-polygonal barrel, that I hope works with the Double Tap 200 grain hard cast. It showed up yesterday, and I would be surprised if it was ever fired, after leaving the HK factory. Came in its original cardboard box. DA only, which I will shoot a few days, and then send to HK for the hybrid match and upgrades that happened post 94.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsxiytgnwh.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsxiytgnwh.jpeg.html)

[StraitR]

Wow, that thing is brand spanking new. Enjoy. Looking forward to hearing how it works out with the DT 220 gr hard cast.

Like the new sigline G. haha

[GJM]

FIFY


Wow, that thing is brand spanking new. Enjoy. Looking forward to hearing how it works out with the DT 200 gr hard cast.

Like the new sigline G. haha

[Hi-Point Aficionado]

For what it's worth, lead semi-wadcuters run like green corn through the new maid in my '93 manufacture 40 cal. USP. The 175 grain LSWC from SNS Casting might be worth a look.

[LSP972]

I think I mentioned previously, that I found a "minty" 1994 USP 40 FS on GB, with the pre-polygonal barrel, that I hope works with the Double Tap 200 grain hard cast. It showed up yesterday, and I would be surprised if it was ever fired, after leaving the HK factory. Came in its original cardboard box. DA only, which I will shoot a few days, and then send to HK for the hybrid match and upgrades that happened post 94.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsxiytgnwh.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsxiytgnwh.jpeg.html)

Good score. You don't see hardly any of that dated example, brand-new, these days.

Good idea to send it to HK for "fixes"... that trigger action is likely pretty horrible.

You going with the LEM (V7 these days), or the V1 nice match action?

.

[GJM]

I think I mentioned previously, that I found a "minty" 1994 USP 40 FS on GB, with the pre-polygonal barrel, that I hope works with the Double Tap 200 grain hard cast. It showed up yesterday, and I would be surprised if it was ever fired, after leaving the HK factory. Came in its original cardboard box. DA only, which I will shoot a few days, and then send to HK for the hybrid match and upgrades that happened post 94.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsxiytgnwh.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsxiytgnwh.jpeg.html)

see above


Good score. You don't see hardly any of that dated example, brand-new, these days.

Good idea to send it to HK for "fixes"... that trigger action is likely pretty horrible.

You going with the LEM (V7 these days), or the V1 nice match action?

.

[LSP972]

see above

I read that. I know what you said. I was asking if you were going to get the "better" LEM... which HK can do, similar to the "hybrid match" stuff (trigger, etc.) they do to the "better" V1s. I probably should have said a bit more detail. Sorry to have bothered you.

.

[GJM]

I read that. I know what you said. I was asking if you were going to get the "better" LEM... which HK can do, similar to the "hybrid match" stuff (trigger, etc.) they do to the "better" V1s. I probably should have said a bit more detail. Sorry to have bothered you.

.

I thought "hybrid match LEM" was the special trigger -- is there something better?

[BCL]

I thought "hybrid match LEM" was the special trigger -- is there something better?

As far as I'm aware, Hybrid Match is the best LEM, Match is the best DA/SA.

[GJM]

This afternoon, I got to shoot the 1994 USP .40 for the first time. All I shot was Double Tap 200 grain flat point hard cast. I have limited quantities, so I only shot two magazines, but it fed. I have 36 rounds of it left, so I need to figure out how much of it to shoot testing reliability, and still have at least a magazine for possible field carry until I can get a resupply in lower 48. Interestingly, I had one cartridge that didn't fire. I pulled the trigger a second time, without success. I removed the cartridge and it had a big hit on the primer. I chambered it and hit it a third time without success, concluding I had a cartridge issue and not a gun issue. This underscores DocGKR's preference for major manufacturer ammo over the boutique makers. Incidentally, this USP had the DA only (not LEM) trigger. While I plan to switch it out for the hybrid match LEM, it didn't hold me back for shooting groups at 25 and some faster paced shooting close in. It seems like this trigger is a perfect companion to the LAPD qual. :)

Next, I shot a LEM HK45 I have owned for years. Interestingly, I didn't like it nearly as much as the USP FS or my HK45C that I shot immediately afterwards. While the spider grips of the HK45 and P30 sure feel good in my hands, I much prefer shooting the flat side HK pistols. My wife's main complaint about HK pistols is how confusing the product line is. For example she is incredulous the USP FS mags don't work in the USP Compact, and wonders why the HK45C looks more like a P2000 than a smaller HK45.

[OlongJohnson]

While the spider grips of the HK45 and P30 sure feel good in my hands, I much prefer shooting the flat side HK pistols.

I'm with you. "Large" backstrap inserts on the P30 etc. just feel like someone glued a tennis ball to the lower portion of the grip, when compared to the blockier USPs. Does nothing for length of pull/grip radius/reach to the trigger or whatever it's technically called on a pistol.

[Dagga Boy]

GJM, you can let Mrs. GJM know that the USP45c mags actually make sense. The biggest issue with the USP 45F was their size. Trigger reach issues, and other size issues made it not that Universal. The USP45C was actually a real compact version that was smaller all the way around. It avoided the feel,of things like Glock30's of the time that were smaller than a G21, but still very blocky with a very fat grip. I used to shoot my USP45C better than the full size due to the grip size. Also, much better for ban states and the smaller magazine is more reliable and robust. The USP45C mag is the basis for the Hk45C and full size Hk45, it is that good. Having maintained USP F's for a long time in numbers, the magazine was the weakest link for a hard use issue magazine. I think the smaller magazine is a plus all the way around. Improving a product and also developing a better answer to the goal rather than what is easier to produce and develop also speaks well to the company. As far as the Spider-Man grip.....I also wish the Hk45 shared the same grip of the HK45c.

[OlongJohnson]

Having maintained USP F's for a long time in numbers, the magazine was the weakest link for a hard use issue magazine.

If 45F, that's the first I've heard of that. Are you talking specifically the 45F, or the 9 and 40 with their plastic-bodied mags? What kinds of things went wrong? Any ways to inspect to predict future issues before they occur? Did you ever deal with 10-round mags to notice a difference, or 12-round only for LE? Any experience with the black/steel jet funnel mags for 9mm?

[Dagga Boy]

Only the metal 12 rounders. We cracked a lot of magazines at the top of the seam. We dropped them A LOT on concrete. Getting dropped full of Ammo at times really tore them up. A bit less weight in the smaller mags and rubberized bases and a narrower magazine seem to make the USPc and HK45 series much more durable in my experience.

For an agency, magazines were totally disposable items. I used bad ones as dedicated training mags som that they would cause occasional malfunctions and took the stress off of primary carry magazines. Magazines tend not to be disposable for most citizens.

[TC215]

Only the metal 12 rounders. We cracked a lot of magazines at the top of the seam. We dropped them A LOT on concrete. Getting dropped full of Ammo at times really tore them up. A bit less weight in the smaller mags and rubberized bases and a narrower magazine seem to make the USPc and HK45 series much more durable in my experience.

For an agency, magazines were totally disposable items. I used bad ones as dedicated training mags som that they would cause occasional malfunctions and took the stress off of primary carry magazines. Magazines tend not to be disposable for most citizens.

Yep, my agency issued USP .45's and USP Compact .45's for 16 years...until this month, actually. The only problems we ever had were from the full-size magazines.

[LtDave]

Yep, my agency issued USP .45's and USP Compact .45's for 16 years...until this month, actually. The only problems we ever had were from the full-size magazines.

I had a couple of early HK USP 45F mags that split at the top. HK replaced them at no charge. Agree on the USP 45c being a much friendlier handful than the full size. Bought a LEM version to carry when I retired since I couldn't take my USPc .40 with me. First gun I bought in AZ. My agency is still issuing USP .40 FS and Compacts we got in the '98-'99 timeframe. Never any mag issues, or any other issues for that matter.

[LtDave]

This afternoon, I got to shoot the 1994 USP .40 for the first time. All I shot was Double Tap 200 grain flat point hard cast. I have limited quantities, so I only shot two magazines, but it fed. I have 36 rounds of it left, so I need to figure out how much of it to shoot testing reliability, and still have at least a magazine for possible field carry until I can get a resupply in lower 48. Interestingly, I had one cartridge that didn't fire. I pulled the trigger a second time, without success. I removed the cartridge and it had a big hit on the primer. I chambered it and hit it a third time without success, concluding I had a cartridge issue and not a gun issue. This underscores DocGKR's preference for major manufacturer ammo over the boutique makers. Incidentally, this USP had the DA only (not LEM) trigger. While I plan to switch it out for the hybrid match LEM, it didn't hold me back for shooting groups at 25 and some faster paced shooting close in. It seems like this trigger is a perfect companion to the LAPD qual. :)

Next, I shot a LEM HK45 I have owned for years. Interestingly, I didn't like it nearly as much as the USP FS or my HK45C that I shot immediately afterwards. While the spider grips of the HK45 and P30 sure feel good in my hands, I much prefer shooting the flat side HK pistols. My wife's main complaint about HK pistols is how confusing the product line is. For example she is incredulous the USP FS mags don't work in the USP Compact, and wonders why the HK45C looks more like a P2000 than a smaller HK45.

How was the DAO trigger on the USP .40 F?

[GJM]

How was the DAO trigger on the USP .40 F?

:). Like a decent revolver trigger.

[GJM]

My wife is really liking the HK45C in the role of mini-field pistol. The size, both grip and overall, is easier for her than the USP, it points more naturally for her (read, points more like her Glock pistols), works well in a Rosen Upper Limit that is her regular carry holster, and has a Safariland 7TS series holster available.

I decided to test .45 Super with the ten round HK45C magazine, and it also seems to run. It is interesting how the ten round magazine changes the character of the pistol from concealed carry to more of a full size pistol. I was having a problem occasionally pinching myself on the reload, in the right rear corner of the magazine. I rounded that corner with a file, and it seems to have fixed that problem. Reloads go a lot faster when you aren't flinching at the thought of a magazine pinch. Here is a picture of that edge.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/image_zpsqgakibun.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/image_zpsqgakibun.jpeg.html)


I also decided to get a HK45CT, which with the threaded barrel gives, for the sake of velocity, a 4.46 barrel versus 4.41 in the standard USP 45. It is possible my wife uses the HK45C exclusively as her field pistol, considering the threaded barrel giving similar velocity as the USP, the better size, the legendary reliability of the 45C magazines, and it's ability to launch Super.

[flyrodr]

George,

I'm really liking these reports on the HK45C! Much appreciated!!!

[Dagga Boy]

I did a majority of my Protection work in California with a 45C and it was my primary retirement carry gun from the time it came out till I converted back to a 9mm when I arrived in the free Republic of Texas. I could easily go back to the 45C as it is one of my all time favorite pistols. As much as 1911's always call to my emotional side, the HK45/45c are simply machines that work and thrive on modern high performance .45 that are better than 9mm. If limited to 10 rounds, they are about perfect. I have a stock one in DA/SA, a Robar gun and my favorite, a GrayGuns Liht LEM short reset model. My original attraction to it was I could turn it from a small CCW gun with flat 8 rounders, to a more shoot able gun with the extended pinky rest magazines, to a full size with ten round elephant foot magazines and an extended barrel. I think MRs. GJM is seeing the obvious versatility in the ability to go from a field pistol in Alaska, to a concealed carry gun that she can both manage in the plane or town and take to Trips to various Socialist Utopia's. Ammo can be tailored to any location.

[GJM]

Hey, I am in executive protection every day, and have been the last seven years. It is a two person team, but generally we have a shotgun, too. Got to protect the Vizsla. Note that I am stylin' the same kind of pants as Taylor Swift's BG.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/image_zpsahi4gmt9.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/image_zpsahi4gmt9.jpeg.html)

[GJM]

At the end of my practice session today, I spent some time shooting Bill drills at 25 yards with the HK45C. Bill drills with a light .45 tell you lots about your grip and stance, in a way you don't notice shooting only two shots a target. One nice thing, is even though .45 is a lot heavier than 9, it feels like more a push than .40, which seems sharp by comparison.

[Kimura]

Thank you GJM and Nyeti. After following this thread for awhile and watching some videos, I started looking for a USP 45c just to try the match hybrid LEM. This forum is the most expensive free experience I think I have ever had.

[Dagga Boy]

Went out today to help a friend work through some stuff with a bunch of newer HK's and USP's. I may need to get a USP45 Expert LEM. With that said, not much has changed. I like to carry the 45C and it feels near perfect in the hand, but I simply shoot the full size HK45 better than almost anything else out there. I am still of the opinion if I ever went back to cop work, it would be in my holster.

GJM and I have discussed this before on the grips. With my arthritis I am very grip compromised and can no longer grip a pistol like I should. The Spider-Man grips actuall work well for me. I will concede for most who can establish a hard proper grip, the USP and other flat sides have a probable advantage.

Outside of all the minutia, the one thing most with experience with these guns can likely agree upon is that we can argue till the end of days about 9mm service guns and what is best. As far as a modern .45 service pistol, I will continue a long held opinion that HK simply owns this caliber.

[GJM]

Thank you GJM and Nyeti. After following this thread for awhile and watching some videos, I started looking for a USP 45c just to try the match hybrid LEM. This forum is the most expensive free experience I think I have ever had.

Match hybrid LEM is available on the FS USP, but not in its entirety on the USP C.

[GJM]

Darryl, I inow you are not a .40 fan, but I think I shoot and reload my USP FS .40, with the hybrid match LEM trigger, better than any other HK. I am looking forward to getting my FS USP 9. I like the sight radius, like the flat sides of the grip, and the magwell and magazines are good.

[BCL]

I'm not sure about the USP45 as I don't have one, but the magwell on the USP9/40 are gigantic.

[GJM]

I'm not sure about the USP45 as I don't have one, but the magwell on the USP9/40 are gigantic.

I think the USP 45 magwell is tighter than the 9/40, and the larger USP 45 FS mag is more awkward to handle than the 9/40 polymer mags, that are very close to a Glock 17 magazine in feel. Here is a picture of the USP FS .40 magwell, showing how roomy it is.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/image_zpso3yq1hgz.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/image_zpso3yq1hgz.jpeg.html)

[hlb14]

GJM, thank you for the reports on the USP9/40/45 and 45c, its very much appreciated. Thanks nyeti for the input on the USP 45 mags, that's the first I'd heard of that. GJM, do you have any plans to try the jet funnel with either the 9 or 40?

[GJM]

GJM, thank you for the reports on the USP9/40/45 and 45c, its very much appreciated. Thanks nyeti for the input on the USP 45 mags, that's the first I'd heard of that. GJM, do you have any plans to try the jet funnel with either the 9 or 40?


Wasn't planning to add the jet funnel, as it so easy to reload. I am interested in the "jet funnel" extra capacity magazines, if they are verified reliable?

Tony at JM is setting up my George and Universal AIWB holsters, by leaving the bottom under the barrel open, so I can run a USP FS and HK45C with or without a threaded barrel.

[Josh Runkle]

I've had issues with the jet funnel mags, though I got a used gun with the mags already used. I spoke with some other people "in the know" who warned me that apparently this is a common issue with the mags.

Basically, the mags wear away where the mag catch notch on the mag is. This results in a positive attachment that will randomly give way during firing. This doesn't happen to me with new mags, just with used ones. Obviously mags are a disposable part, but the jet mags are expensive and hard to find and have a far, far shorter life (in my experience) than other standard mags.

[OlongJohnson]

Is that with the 9mm-only steel/polymer bodied black mags, or with the translucent ones that are available in 9mm or .40 and are "not recommended for military and law enforcement users"?

Was the pistol you used altered with the addition of the larger-paddle mag release that has a metal tab to engage the mag notch? I've read that part will wear out plastic mags faster and potentially lead to the problems you describe.

[Josh Runkle]

Is that with the 9mm-only steel/polymer bodied black mags, or with the translucent ones that are available in 9mm or .40 and are "not recommended for military and law enforcement users"?

Was the pistol you used altered with the addition of the larger-paddle mag release that has a metal tab to engage the mag notch? I've read that part will wear out plastic mags faster and potentially lead to the problems you describe.

9mm translucent. Most are older and marked LE only I believe. I believe it is the standard mag release. Not home for a few weeks to look, though.

[Kimura]

Match hybrid LEM is available on the FS USP, but not in its entirety on the USP C.

Thank you. From what I've read I think the compact can take all of the parts except the trigger itself unless the trigger is modified. If I'm correct, this is fine for me as the the compact makes more sense for me than the full size. The full size for me is like a Glock 21 in the way that it's just a huge pistol that I don't have a great deal of use for at this point.

[BCL]

Thank you. From what I've read I think the compact can take all of the parts except the trigger itself unless the trigger is modified. If I'm correct, this is fine for me as the the compact makes more sense for me than the full size. The full size for me is like a Glock 21 in the way that it's just a huge pistol that I don't have a great deal of use for at this point.

You are correct. And even without the FS trigger with the overtravel stop, it is a very good trigger for an HK.

[GJM]

I liberally applied skate board tape to the grip of my HK45C, and it definitely improves shootability, compared to the rather slippery stock side panels. This pistol has regular LEM.

I then shot my USP FS .40, with the hybrid match LEM trigger, and found it was significantly easier to shoot fast. I look forward to shooting the 45C with light LEM and the nickel coated sear spring. I feel like the lighter the LEM trigger pull, while still being fully reliable, the better. With a medium LEM, you have fairly weightless take up and then a pronounced wall, while the lighter LEM makes the wall feel like less of a speed bump.

[BCL]

I liberally applied skate board tape to the grip of my HK45C, and it definitely improves shootability, compared to the rather slippery stock side panels. This pistol has regular LEM.

I then shot my USP FS .40, with the hybrid match LEM trigger, and found it was significantly easier to shoot fast. I look forward to shooting the 45C with light LEM and the nickel coated sear spring. I feel like the lighter the LEM trigger pull, while still being fully reliable, the better. With a medium LEM, you have fairly weightless take up and then a pronounced wall, while the lighter LEM makes the wall feel like less of a speed bump.

The 45C should have the nickel plated sear spring from the factory. If you drop the V1 hammer spring in there (PN: 234479) and/or the light TRS (PN: 209266), that should give you the feel that is most like the match Hybrid LEM in a 45C.

Agree completely on skate tape, IMO, it's a must or the 45C/P2k series of pistols.

[GJM]

The 45C should have the nickel plated sear spring from the factory. If you drop the V1 hammer spring in there (PNk: 234479) and/or the light TRS (PN: 209266), that should give you the feel that is most like the match Hybrid LEM in a 45C.

Agree completely on skate tape, IMO, it's a must or the 45C/P2k series of pistols.

You would be a great neighbor!

[OlongJohnson]

With a medium LEM, you have fairly weightless take up and then a pronounced wall, while the lighter LEM makes the wall feel like less of a speed bump.

Have you messed with Todd's variant, which uses a standard (heavy) LEM trigger return spring?

My understanding is the overall weight is increased, but the difference between the takeup and the "wall" is less noticeable. So you end up with something closer to a traditional "rolling"-type DA-like break with higher overall force than the "light" LEM. He especially liked it because the trigger tracked a quick finger movement on reset, enabling rapid resets without slapping the trigger and tight splits. At least that's my paraphrasing of his comments, which I believe I probably read on either the -training site or HKPro.

[GJM]

Triggers are very individual in terms of preference, but the USP FS hybrid match LEM is my favorite HK hammer gun trigger by a mile.

[Dagga Boy]

Triggers are very individual in terms of preference, but the USP FS hybrid match LEM is my favorite HK hammer gun trigger by a mile.

I concur, and have used all of them. By the way, GJM is now an HK enabler.....who would have thought.

[GJM]

Nice blaster!

[Dagga Boy]

I have a DA/SA one with some history. It is one of my all time favorite pistols. I had an opportunity to get one with the Match Hybrid LEM and I already had the holster and support gear, so it made sense. Between this and a HK marked Benelli M1 Super 90 defense I just did a 20 year circle backwards......and actually am weirdly ecstatic.

[GJM]

So now you are living the HK lifestyle instead of the J frame lifestyle!

[OlongJohnson]

I concur, and have used all of them. By the way, GJM is now an HK enabler.....who would have thought.

Do you keep the overtravel stop on HKs that are carried?

[Nephrology]

So now you are living the HK lifestyle instead of the J frame lifestyle!

http://i.imgur.com/cnBpw8j.jpg

[Dagga Boy]

So now you are living the HK lifestyle instead of the J frame lifestyle!

Sometimes as a firearms journalist we make sacrifices.....it is not for me, but I do hope it will be at some time in life. I could live the sub compact lifestyle without an issue. Kind of funny on the J frame. Another gun writer who doesn't like my fanny pack lifestyle was giving me crap when he found out that I am not alone in the fanny pack thing amongst retired guys who have actually shot a bunch of folks. Same guys are often carrying a J frame. The comment was mad about how wrong it seems with a bunch of old retired guys carrying full size service pistol back ups to their J frames.


Do you keep the overtravel stop on HKs that are carried?

Yep, never had an issue. I keep mine with enough of a gap that there is some room and once you get them where you want them I would loctite them on duty guns.

[buzz_knox]

Keeping with the 45C theme, I've found that riding the safety is a bit uncomfortable. It pushes my thumb out at an unnatural angle. Has anyone ever had the same problem and found a solution (absent just going to LEM)?

[StraitR]

I can totally see George wearing that Expert on his hip, strapped to his thigh, and clambering around in the great outdoors of Alaska.

[BCL]

Keeping with the 45C theme, I've found that riding the safety is a bit uncomfortable. It pushes my thumb out at an unnatural angle. Has anyone ever had the same problem and found a solution (absent just going to LEM)?

I just put my strong hand thumb on my support hand thumb joint. I shoot pretty much every gun this way and it seems to work well for me. YMMV.

[OlongJohnson]

I just put my strong hand thumb on my support hand thumb joint. I shoot pretty much every gun this way and it seems to work well for me. YMMV.

Keeps it away from the slide catch on a Sig, too.

[OlongJohnson]

I can totally see George wearing that Expert on his hip, strapped to his thigh, and clambering around in the great outdoors of Alaska.

Except make it an Elite.

[GJM]

I have taken delivery of three new HK pistols in the last week or so, a USP FS 9, P2000 9 and an HK45CT. All three of them have the rear sight slightly offset in the dovetail to the right. Fine by me, as I need a slight rear deflection in all handguns on account of my eyes, but surprising that HK doesn't have a better process for verifying alignment. Another reason, I zero the sights on every handgun, regardless of how they are set by the factory.

[chl442]

I had the opportunity to shoot a USP 45 full size DA/SA last week. It was my first time shooting a USP 45 , but I love the gun. Between that experience and this thread i see a USP 45 V7 LEM in my future ,
mainly because life is too short.
Chris

[Dagga Boy]

I have taken delivery of three new HK pistols in the last week or so, a USP FS 9, P2000 9 and an HK45CT. All three of them have the rear sight slightly offset in the dovetail to the right. Fine by me, as I need a slight rear deflection in all handguns on account of my eyes, but surprising that HK doesn't have a better process for verifying alignment. Another reason, I zero the sights on every handgun, regardless of how they are set by the factory.

That's called great customer service....setting the guns up for your eyes before they arrive. And some people think HK hates their customers....bah.

[YVK]

I have taken delivery of three new HK pistols in the last week or so.... and an HK45CT.

Does that come with a Pipe Hitters Union tee, Arc'teryx skull cap, Ray-bans, and a beard lube? Or you need to order the rest of a package separately?

[GJM]

Does that come with a Pipe Hitters Union tee, Arc'teryx skull cap, Ray-bans, and a beard lube? Or you need to order the rest of a package separately?

That 45CT with the threaded barrel is very operator looking. Never could come up with a reason for the Tactical threaded models before. Still don't have a real reason, but now I think I need them. For now, I am going with "the extended threaded barrel gives more velocity in a smaller size gun" as my reason #1.

[Dagga Boy]

That 45CT with the threaded barrel is very operator looking. Never could come up with a reason for the Tactical threaded models before. Still don't have a real reason, but now I think I need them. For now, I am going with "the extended threaded barrel gives more velocity in a smaller size gun" as my reason #1.

He read that in a magazine..............;)

[GJM]

He read that in a magazine..............;)

If I fess up to getting the idea from your magazine article in Tactical Life on the 45C, I will also have to point out your old post I found on HKPro, where you say you shoot Glock pistols in 9 and HK pistols in .45.

[Dagga Boy]

If I fess up to getting the idea from your magazine article in Tactical Life on the 45C, I will also have to point out your old post I found on HKPro, where you say you shoot Glock pistols in 9 and HK pistols in .45.

If it weren't for Glock deciding to screw up the Gen 3 guns (how you do that is beyond me) with abortion production while trying to make the gen 4 work, I would still be using HK's in .45 and Glocks in 9 mm.

[Nephrology]

This thread is making me want to buy a .45....


If it weren't for Glock deciding to screw up the Gen 3 guns (how you do that is beyond me) with abortion production while trying to make the gen 4 work, I would still be using HK's in .45 and Glocks in 9 mm.

It might be worth giving Glock another chance if you feel so inclined. The 2 4th gen 9mms I bought this year have both run without complaint, and both provide better and more consistent ejection (so far) than either of my "golden era" Gen 3s (2008 and early 2010). Also, for what its worth, the 4th gen guns with a 3rd gen trigger bar (and no other additional parts) give me my favorite Glock trigger of all time. Positive reset, short rolling break. Really happy with them.

[Hi-Point Aficionado]

That 45 Expert is giving me urges. Someone tell me I don't need to add a 45 ACP toolhead to the Dillon and to stick with the Short & Weak for my German pistols.

[Chuck Haggard]

That 45 Expert is giving me urges. Someone tell me I don't need to add a 45 ACP toolhead to the Dillon and to stick with the Short & Weak for my German pistols.

Won't be me, I'm searching for slightly used USP .45s lately....

[spinmove_]

Won't be me, I'm searching for slightly used USP .45s lately....

I hear CDNN has some stainless USP45c pistols for $699...

https://www.cdnnsports.com/hk-usp-45acp-compact-v1-stainless.html?___SID=U

[coldcase1984]

That 45CT with the threaded barrel is very operator looking. Never could come up with a reason for the Tactical threaded models before. Still don't have a real reason, but now I think I need them. For now, I am going with "the extended threaded barrel gives more velocity in a smaller size gun" as my reason #1.

I bought my old issued G27 when we traded in for 23s a few years back. Got an OEM G32 barrel off a friend for precisely that reason: Turned my Pocket Glock into a Rocket for OD carry. With +OEM Base, I've got 12 rounds of .357 Mag speed and penetration. Plus 15 reload.

The above post plus Phil Shoemaker's recent defense killing of a brown bear with 9mm BB Outdoorsman 147 hardcast bullets got me thinking.

BB does not put together a Heavy .357 Outdoorsman load, unfortunately. Doubletap makes two, however! A 147 FMJ-FP at 1255 or their 180 WFNGC at 1025 oughta break some bone and go deep.

Believe I'm gonna order a 20-rd box of each and see how they run and group in my Franken Glock. Have had good performance with both brands in several other pistols and revolvers.

Closest wild bears to me are 50+ miles away, but it'd be nice to have penetrators in the backup mag in case cover becomes an issue in my turd-filled hometown on weekends

[OlongJohnson]

I hear CDNN has some stainless USP45c pistols for $699...

https://www.cdnnsports.com/hk-usp-45acp-compact-v1-stainless.html?___SID=U

But GJM has shown us they aren't reliable with Super.

[GJM]

But GJM has shown us they aren't reliable with Super.

Small sample, but the one USP C 45 I tested, choked every magazine with the BB 230 FMJ-FP load that is my standard Super load. That load has run in four different USP 45 full size pistols, and the one HK45C I have tested. Will be testing three more 45C pistols soon, and will have a better idea afterwards on the universe of 45C pistols with Super.

Right now, I think the USP full size 45/40 and HK45C pistols are pick of the litter for my use. Will be testing a USP FS 9, too.

[spinmove_]

But GJM has shown us they aren't reliable with Super.

Buy one and add another data point to the sample size?

[BCL]

Will be testing a USP FS 9, too.

It will be interesting to see how you perform with that after all of the .45 Super testing. Are you installing the Match Hybrid LEM?

[GJM]

I got to shoot some new HK additions this afternoon, and in this order.

1) P2000 9mm LEM. NIB, BE date code (2015). Stock LEM, OEM non-tritium sights. I shot AE 124 ball. My experience is that many 9mm P000 pistols tend to shoot lower than tip of the front sight, more drive the dot. This one didn't, and was a pleasing tip of the front sight POI. No stoppages. Trigger was pretty crude, but I could actually shoot it fine on stuff like dots pretty well. Big time, BTA -- as in "brass to arm," with about fifty percent of the cases landing on my right arm. Glad I had my long sleeve bug shirt on. Is this normal, a break in thing, or what? AE 124 is about 135 PF in this length barrel. What is the hot ticket on a trigger -- I am thinking of returning it to HK for 4.1, light LEM parts, and a nickel coated sear spring. In the mean time, can I drop in a Wolf 10 or 12 pound hammer spring to improve things?

2) USP 9 FS, NIB, BE date code. Stock three dot, non tritium sights. This came DA/SA, so I dropped the slide onto my USP FS .40 lower with the hybrid match LEM trigger, until I can get this pistol converted to this same trigger. No stoppages, tip of the spit POI. I shot 25 yards, Garcia dots, and two shot draws from 7-30 yards. The FS USP 9 with this trigger is far and away the most fun to shoot HK hammer pistol I have ever shot. It is just a complete hoot, and if you are an HK fan boy, you ought to consider one of these. I can't wait to shoot it next!

3) HK45CT, BF date code (2016), factory Mepro tritium three dot sights, DA/SA trigger. POI was fine, no stoppages. With a variant 3 plate, I can live with this trigger. I believe Darryl's article said the Navy users have variant 3, so it is functionally similar to their 226 Sigs. I shot dots and drills like the others, mostly with Speer 200 TMJ. All functioned, so i tried it with BB 45 Super ammo. I used the ten round magazine, and the Super fed fine. The 45C grows on me daily. Same trigger question, can I go with a Wolf 10 or 12 hammer spring? Incidentally, the HK45CT with the extended barrel fits fine in a P30L Safariland 7TS holster. Probably going to leave the factory front tritium and install a 10-8 rear sight.

[tanner]

I fell like these might be silly questions, so forgive me ahead of time...

What are the differences between the 4.1 LEM and the Hybrid Match LEM? Why would you choose one for a 9mm and a different one for your 45?

If a person had say a 9mm P2000 with a V2 LEM trigger, about how much would it cost to have HK install either the 4.1 or Hybrid Match in it?

[BCL]

I got to shoot some new HK additions this afternoon, and in this order.

1) P2000 9mm LEM. NIB, BE date code (2015). Stock LEM, OEM non-tritium sights. I shot AE 124 ball. My experience is that many 9mm P000 pistols tend to shoot lower than tip of the front sight, more drive the dot. This one didn't, and was a pleasing tip of the front sight POI. No stoppages. Trigger was pretty crude, but I could actually shoot it fine on stuff like dots pretty well. Big time, BTA -- as in "brass to arm," with about fifty percent of the cases landing on my right arm. Glad I had my long sleeve bug shirt on. Is this normal, a break in thing, or what? AE 124 is about 135 PF in this length barrel. What is the hot ticket on a trigger -- I am thinking of returning it to HK for 4.1, light LEM parts, and a nickel coated sear spring. In the mean time, can I drop in a Wolf 10 or 12 pound hammer spring to improve things?

YVK should have a better answer as I have no direct experience, but if yours is a V2 LEM, lightening the hammer spring to a Wolff 12 or 10lb should lighten up the trigger and remove the wall if there is one. If I'm correct, and it's similar in feel to the way I have my USP40 set up, you really only feel the weight of the TRS - so what I imagine a decent revolver trigger would feel like with the addition of a non-full length reset (can't say short reset as it's a P2000). The weight should be roughly 6.5lbs or so.


2) USP 9 FS, NIB, BE date code. Stock three dot, non tritium sights. This came DA/SA, so I dropped the slide onto my USP FS .40 lower with the hybrid match LEM trigger, until I can get this pistol converted to this same trigger. No stoppages, tip of the spit POI. I shot 25 yards, Garcia dots, and two shot draws from 7-30 yards. The FS USP 9 with this trigger is far and away the most fun to shoot HK hammer pistol I have ever shot. It is just a complete hoot, and if you are an HK fan boy, you ought to consider one of these. I can't wait to shoot it next!

Thought you might like it, this is why I have two! Pretty much zero recoil.


3) HK45CT, BF date code (2016), factory Mepro tritium three dot sights, DA/SA trigger. POI was fine, no stoppages. With a variant 3 plate, I can live with this trigger. I believe Darryl's article said the Navy users have variant 3, so it is functionally similar to their 226 Sigs. I shot dots and drills like the others, mostly with Speer 200 TMJ. All functioned, so i tried it with BB 45 Super ammo. I used the ten round magazine, and the Super fed fine. The 45C grows on me daily. Same trigger question, can I go with a Wolf 10 or 12 hammer spring? Incidentally, the HK45CT with the extended barrel fits fine in a P30L Safariland 7TS holster. Probably going to leave the factory front tritium and install a 10-8 rear sight.

You can't use a Wolff 10 or 12lb hammer spring as is, you would have to cut coils to the approximate length of the stock hammer spring and I don't know how that would affect function with igniting primers and such. I need to visit sometime so that I can show you how to do all of the HK armoring yourself. Once you get the hang of it, it's not too bad, just slightly time-consuming (particularly compared to messing around with a Glock, which is like messing around with a Lego in difficulty).

Darryl, as usual, was correct (about the Navy users). It's a good thing I have almost all of these HKs already, or this thread would be costing me money!

[BCL]

I fell like these might be silly questions, so forgive me ahead of time...

What are the differences between the 4.1 LEM and the Hybrid Match LEM? Why would you choose one for a 9mm and a different one for your 45?

If a person had say a 9mm P2000 with a V2 LEM trigger, about how much would it cost to have HK install either the 4.1 or Hybrid Match in it?

Not silly questions, HKs are confusing.

4.1 LEM is only available on the P-series pistols (P2000, P2000sk, P30, P30L) and shorts the total length of travel by a short, but noticeable amount. It does not shorten the reset. If I remember correctly, the 4.1 LEM should work with the different spring weight variants, but Darryl or YVK should be able to chime in with the definitive answer.

The Hybrid Match LEM in it's full format is only available on the USP full size pistols. It's a combination of the LEM trigger and the match trigger and consists of the standard LEM parts (two piece hammer and LEM spring, LEM sear), and at a minimum the match catch, match trigger w/overtravel stop and nickel-plated sear spring. This shortens the reset, improves the quality of the break, and makes for an excellent (HK) trigger. If you really wanted to go light on the trigger for competition you could use the match TRS and match hammer spring, which should drop the trigger from the ~4.5-5lb weight to about 3.5-4lb or so.

The Hybrid match can be used, without the match trigger w/overtravel stop in all USPc, HK45, and HK45Cs. You could try to imitate it in the P2000, but you would need to go V1 LEM with the nickel-plated sear spring, none of the other parts are compatible. If you do that, with the 4.1 LEM, that is probably the best trigger you are going to get in a P-series HK without sending it to Gray Guns.

[tanner]

Not silly questions, HKs are confusing...

Thank you kind sir. You explained that all very well.

I am just in the process of wringing out my first HK, the aforementioned P2000. I like it a lot, plan on shooting at least a case of ammo through it before making any trigger mods to it, but I am trying to follow what everyone is talking about and that is making my head spin just a little bit.

Thanks again for taking the time.

[BCL]

Thank you kind sir. You explained that all very well.

I am just in the process of wringing out my first HK, the aforementioned P2000. I like it a lot, plan on shooting at least a case of ammo through it before making any trigger mods to it, but I am trying to follow what everyone is talking about and that is making my head spin just a little bit.

Thanks again for taking the time.

If/when you do the trigger mods and if you are mechanically-inclined, let me know and I can help walk you through how to do them. Or just send it to HK, as that is going to be the easier way to go.

[GJM]

P2000 feels much better with the Wolf 10 pound hammer spring. That likely to be reliable?

[BCL]

P2000 feels much better with the Wolf 10 pound hammer spring. That likely to be reliable?

With Federal primers yes. Winchester/CCI? Maybe. Tula/cheap Euro/Russian stuff? probably not. YVK games his P30L that way IIRC, so he might be able to give you the primer low-down. I just know that if you sneeze near a Federal primer it will activate/detonate/words are hard, so you should be good there.

[GJM]

With Federal primers yes. Winchester/CCI? Maybe. Tula/cheap Euro/Russian stuff? probably not. YVK games his P30L that way IIRC, so he might be able to give you the primer low-down. I just know that if you sneeze near a Federal primer it will activate/detonate/words are hard, so you should be good there.

I will stick a 12 in now, so I don't run the risk of getting kilt in the food court.

[BCL]

I will stick a 12 in now, so I don't run the risk of getting kilt in the food court.

When you get 4.1 installed with a nickel-plated sear spring, you should ask HK if they will call it the 4.1 Hybrid.

[GJM]

Finally some sunshine this afternoon, the warmest it has been in a month! Here is some benchmark data on a few HK pistols.

Before starting HK shooting, I got my CZ slide, just back from Mark Housel at L&M, zeroed with the DP Pro. Mark did a great job, and the DP Pro/CZ combination rocks for me.

Then I shot my USP FS 9, mounted on my FS .40 lower with the hybrid match LEM trigger. I really like how my FS USP .40 shoots, and this has all the same qualities, with about 60 percent of the recoil. JST0915 said, in 9, the full size ought to last a million rounds, and as soft shooting as it is, I don't doubt him. Compared to a Glock 17, it recoils differently. The Glock is more straight back, where the USP is more flippy, and this causes me to run the gun differently. After shooting arrays and steel back to 50 yards, I shot four aces, which is draw and shoot two to the A zone at 7 yards, slide forward reload, two more to the A zone. Last time I tried that with the CZ/DP Pro combo, I shot 2.42, which I believe was a PR. With the USP FS, I shot 2.92, although both my holster and mag pouch are more Timmie than my CZ rig. It felt very solid, with about a 1.50 reload, which felt fine, given it was the first I shot. Repeated it, in 2.80 something. I shot one Bill drill at 7 yards, and it was 2.15, with all the shots clustered into about three or four inches.

I then shot my P2000 9mm. Stock except I put a 12 pound Wolf hammer spring in, which improved the LEM trigger pull. Across a range of drills, it was significantly slower. Four aces in 3.52, Bill drill in about 2.50, and across the board this delta was there.

I then shot my HK45CT with the V1 trigger. I can make DA/SA work, but I do plan to get light LEM installed. In my book, the 45C is the best lightweight, compact .45 on the planet.

Finally, I shot my DA only KE date code USP FS .40 with 20 rounds of Double Tap 200 hard cast. All 20 rounds fed (I am down to 15 in AK, which limits my testing), and hit a few inches high but still a usable POI. However, I had one failure to ignite. This makes the second failure to ignite in 40 rounds of this DT load. Not sure whether it is a Double Tap problem, or something with my gun and will go away when HK upgrades the firing pin parts. I then shot some Federal AE ball, and then all fed and ignited. For fun, I went back to 50 yards, and was hitting the eight inch steel at will, transitioning back and forth widely and quickly, almost like a good DA wheel gun. To test the other end of the spectrum, I shot an abbreviated Bill drill from 7, and noted that my splits were right at .50. Goes to show there is no free lunch!

So what do I think? That the USP full size 9 with the hybrid match LEM trigger is measurably and definitively, the best shooting HK hammer gun that I have shot. Today, I still shoot a iron sighted Glock 17 a little better, but I suspect I can whittle the delta down with more practice. That doesn't count the HK benefits of a hammer, durability, reliability and pride of ownership ( :) ). The P2000 is a great size for CCW, but I shoot the FS USP 15-20 percent better.

[BCL]

So what do I think? That the USP full size 9 with the hybrid match LEM trigger is measurably and definitively, the best shooting HK hammer gun that I have shot. Today, I still shoot a iron sighted Glock 17 a little better, but I suspect I can whittle the delta down with more practice. That doesn't count the HK benefits of a hammer, durability, reliability and pride of ownership ( :) ). The P2000 is a great size for CCW, but I shoot the FS USP 15-20 percent better.

Great run down and it's was interesting to see the milled CZ vs the USP9 times on 4 Aces. The fact that the CZ with a red dot is about as gamer as you can get (outside of Open or Limited, where the giant magwells will help significantly with the disaster factor on the reload), and the USP is about as Timmie as you can get, the delta was only 1/2 a second or so. Granted it's a short drill at close range, but the disaster factor is pretty high. I would expect the gap to open up quite a bit more at distance where the red dot and CZ, especially combined, would really shine.

Did you feel you were hampered by the flip of the USP compared to a G17/CZ at the 50 yard shots?

As far as shooting the USP 15-20% better than the P2000, I think that is a combination of the longer reset and significantly smaller magwell. I think the gap is larger between a FS USP and P2000 than it would be between a G17 and G19 for those reasons.

I'm should be doing something similar at some point this weekend, although I doubt I'll be able to post the same times!

[GJM]

Great run down and it's was interesting to see the milled CZ vs the USP9 times on 4 Aces. The fact that the CZ with a red dot is about as gamer as you can get (outside of Open or Limited, where the giant magwells will help significantly with the disaster factor on the reload), and the USP is about as Timmie as you can get, the delta was only 1/2 a second or so. Granted it's a short drill at close range, but the disaster factor is pretty high. I would expect the gap to open up quite a bit more at distance where the red dot and CZ, especially combined, would really shine.

Did you feel you were hampered by the flip of the USP compared to a G17/CZ at the 50 yard shots?

As far as shooting the USP 15-20% better than the P2000, I think that is a combination of the longer reset and significantly smaller magwell. I think the gap is larger between a FS USP and P2000 than it would be between a G17 and G19 for those reasons.

I'm should be doing something similar at some point this weekend, although I doubt I'll be able to post the same times!

It is hard for me to compare the CZ with a dot, to any iron sight Production gun, because my mature eyes really like being able to target focus with a single dot!

The 15-20 percent between USP and P2000 tracked all the drills, not just four aces. At distance, the flip of the USP is a non issue for me, because your splits are relatively slow. Where I notice it is close and fast shooting. I was just discussing this with YVK, but I need to run the 17 and USP differently. With the 17, it recoils flatter, snaps back on target, and the trick is working the trigger. With the USP, it flips more, and I end up pressing the trigger more in recoil, and breaking the shot just as the sights settle. Sort of a timing shot ala Patrick Kelley.

[BCL]

It is hard for me to compare the CZ with a dot, to any iron sight Production gun, because my mature eyes really like being able to target focus with a single dot!

The 15-20 percent between USP and P2000 tracked all the drills, not just four aces. At distance, the flip of the USP is a non issue for me, because your splits are relatively slow. Where I notice it is close and fast shooting. I was just discussing this with YVK, but I need to run the 17 and USP differently. With the 17, it recoils flatter, snaps back on target, and the trick is working the trigger. With the USP, it flips more, and I end up pressing the trigger more in recoil, and breaking the shot just as the sights settle. Sort of a timing shot ala Patrick Kelley.

That makes perfect sense, and I figured it would be difficult to compare the gamer extraordinaire against the USP. That's a perfect description for the difference in recoil characteristics between shooting a 17 vs the USP. I'll confirm when I shoot them side-by-side but I believe I do the same thing with the USP. Shooting it up close is rhythmic for lack of a better word.

[tanner]

If/when you do the trigger mods and if you are mechanically-inclined, let me know and I can help walk you through how to do them. Or just send it to HK, as that is going to be the easier way to go.

I appreciate that. I was able to make it through a Sig Armorer course, and have done some kitchen table Glock armoring with YouTube help. I would be hesitant to try H&K without some backup, I'll definitely take you up on that offer if/when the time comes.

[Nephrology]

kitchen table Glock armoring with YouTube help. .

Is there any other kind?

[GJM]

Is there any other kind?


You are spending a lot of time in this thread. Admit it, you want an HK.

Great session with my USP 9 FS this afternoon. Easily the best HK hammer gun for a face shooter that also owns a timer.

[Sigfan26]

Do the USP Compact .40's hold up as well as the full size?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BCL]

Do the USP Compact .40's hold up as well as the full size?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I highly doubt it. It should still hold up better than most other .40s, but it doesn't have the dual recoil system that the full size does; it has a polymer buffer like the P30/P2000/etc.

The unique thing about the recoil system in the full size (and the P2000sk) is that the secondary spring in the RSA actually slows down the slide velocity near the full rearward travel of the slide. If you watch some the USP video from HK on youtube, you can kind of see it when they are shooting one of the full-size USPs in slow motion. This feature, while more difficult to shoot at a high rate of speed, imparts significantly less recoil forces on the rest of the gun. It's why GJM can shoot .45 Super out of a USP45 FS and it doesn't seem like it's working too hard.

All that being said, HCM has shot a ton of .40 down range with a USP40c, so he would probably be the best person to ask about the lifespan of the USP40c.

[GJM]

So let's discuss sights for the HK45C. I understand the dovetails are the same for HK45, HK45C, P30 and P30L.

Heinie. I have them on main 45C now. Regulate well. Rear sight is not too sharp. Little tight for lower light use.

Trijicon HD. I like them. However, they are tall, and the rear sight is sharp enough to shread me and my clothing.

TFX Pro front combined with Trijicon rear. OK, but the front is not nearly as visible to me as an HD.

10-8 front and their narrower rear. Narrow rear out of stock, and has no tritium.

10-8 wider rear and OEM Tritium front. Not too sharp, less visible front than I prefer.

Dawson tritium front and rear. They list the front and rear as same .125 width, so tight.

Dawson FO front and black rear -- c'mon an HKmis for face shooting.

Trigicon legacy three dot. Not too sharp.

What am I missing?

[BCL]

So let's discuss sights for the HK45C. I understand the dovetails are the same for HK45, HK45C, P30 and P30L.

What am I missing?

The biggest thing missing is the sight compatibility with the VP9 as well. So, that gives you one more option on the Dawson side of the house. Dawson sells a .135N tritium rear that is .295 tall (Dawson's HK45C tritium rear is .325T). That means you would need to get a .030 shorter (from .210 to .180) front to keep the same POI as the HK45C Dawson sight sets. Unfortunately, they currently only have a .170 and .190 in that height range, so it might not really be an option after all. They do have the perfect impact policy, but I understand that would be a major pain being in AK.

The only other option that you didn't mention is using a DP .150T x .125W Tritium front with the stock rear. This would keep the same POA/POI as the stock sights, but give you a little more room in the rear notch (Trijicon says the stock rear has a .150 wide notch; the stock front is .149T x .138W).

The HDs for the HK45C are certainly sharp. It's like Trijicon decided that you had to have skin made of leather if you wanted to be operator enough to use their sights.

[GJM]

The Dawson tritium front paired with the OEM rear is a great idea, because with the rear dots sharpied out, I don't mind the sight picture and it isn't too sharp.

Off hand, do you know the dimensions of the OEM sights on the USP 9FS, and is there a Dawson front tritium or FO that would pair with the OEM rear?

[GJM]

Two more thoughts:

1) I just realized why the HD sights don't seem objectionable to me on the USP FS. It is because the rear sight is fully contained in the dovetail, and does not extend rearward like the P30/HK45 HD, where the sharp rear edge of the sight is the main contact point.

2) getting rid of the safety lever on the USP FS completely changes how the pistol handles for me. I can grip it higher and more securely improving recoil control, and reload it faster.

[BCL]

Off hand, do you know the dimensions of the OEM sights on the USP 9FS, and is there a Dawson front tritium or FO that would pair with the OEM rear?

According to Trijicon (the site I usually use), the stock NS are a .170T x .140W front sight with a .179T x .140W rear. Dawson doesn't currently have any .170T tritium front sights as an option, but they do have a .155T x .125W tritium front. As far as Dawson Fiber goes, they have several options from .155T to .185T and widths of .100 and .125.


2) getting rid of the safety lever on the USP FS completely changes how the pistol handles for me. I can grip it higher and more securely improving recoil control, and reload it faster.

At one point I installed the HK45C mag release on the USP9FS and it's a shame that the HK45C release can kill USP9 mags, because my reloads were faster than with any other gun I've ever shot.

[BCL]

Did some shooting today with a USP9 FS with the Match Hybrid LEM and a Gen4 G17 for comparison. At 25 yards, I was able to shoot the USP9 better, even though I have HDs on the USP and Dawson Fibers on the G17. This is because Glock triggers and I don't really get along that well.

At close range, I was able to shoot the USP within a couple of tenths of PRs I've had with a G34, with the same level of accuracy, I just had to work significantly harder to achieve the same result. In this respect, my experience mirrors GJMs - the Glock shoots much flatter and returns to target quicker, so it's more about trigger control with a Glock; with the USP it's more about timing/finding the right rhythm, while you are tracking the sights, as there is much more muzzle flip.

Shot some bill drills with the USP:
7 yards: 2.10 -1C
10 yards: 2.34 clean
15 yards: 3.40 clean
25 yards: 7.0x -2C (need to work on distance shooting at speed)

I spent some time figuring out POA/POI with the HDs:
7 yards: tip of front sight
10 yards: tip of front sight
15 yards: just below tip of front sight
25 yards: more drive the dot, but will reconfirm next time I shoot

Average split speed to get As:
7 yards: ~.20
10 yards: ~.21-.23
15 yards: ~.31-.34
25 yards: ~.60-.80 (mostly As at this speed)

All in all, I think the benefits of the USP9 outweigh any possible shortfalls. Up close, it's nearly as fast as a G17, as the distances grows, the pendulum swings in the other direction. Add in the giant magwell, crazy good accuracy, and unbeatable reliability, and the fact that it's hammer-fired, and I think I have a winner for Timmie-related activities.

On a side note, I should mention that I abhor Trijicon HDs, mostly the U-notch rear. That being said, I think they are currently the best night sights available for the USP.

[GJM]

Things just got real. Just came back in from shooting 350 rounds in continuous moderate rain with my wife. Two holsters, sharing one gun -- the USP 9 FS.

No stoppages, which was no surprise. The surprise, though, was that my wife shot it phenomenally well, as in Gen 3 34 well, and said I better get her one and support gear.

[BCL]

Things just got real. Just came back in from shooting 350 rounds in continuous moderate rain with my wife. Two holsters, sharing one gun -- the USP 9 FS.

No stoppages, which was no surprise. The surprise, though, was that my wife shot it phenomenally well, as in Gen 3 34 well, and said I better get her one and support gear.

With the USP45/HK45C launching super instead of the problematic G20, I could understand, but this...

[GJM]

She recently got YVK a funny HK t shirt, and said she may need one for herself.

[breakingtime91]

George, how does the hybrid compare to the TLG variant

[JHC]

Things just got real. Just came back in from shooting 350 rounds in continuous moderate rain with my wife. Two holsters, sharing one gun -- the USP 9 FS.

No stoppages, which was no surprise. The surprise, though, was that my wife shot it phenomenally well, as in Gen 3 34 well, and said I better get her one and support gear.

I just saw a used USP 9 at my LGS for 489 or 499. I thought, if that were a .40 I'd jump on for no rational reason. I shot one in 9 on a few racks of plates a few years ago. It was good.

[StraitR]

Things just got real. Just came back in from shooting 350 rounds in continuous moderate rain with my wife. Two holsters, sharing one gun -- the USP 9 FS.

No stoppages, which was no surprise. The surprise, though, was that my wife shot it phenomenally well, as in Gen 3 34 well, and said I better get her one and support gear.


I just saw a used USP 9 at my LGS for 489 or 499. I thought, if that were a .40 I'd jump on for no rational reason. I shot one in 9 on a few racks of plates a few years ago. It was good.


10007

[GJM]

George, how does the hybrid compare to the TLG variant

A hybrid match LEM on a USP FS to a TLG on a P30 is about like a 911 to a minivan.

[breakingtime91]

Strange, Todd and some others seemed to drive that minivan pretty well.

[BCL]

Strange, Todd and some others seemed to drive that minivan pretty well.

Sabine Schmidt driving a minivan on the Nurburgring can outdrive most people in any car. Doesn't mean that minivans are better than 911s. Didn't Ken Hackathorn tell Todd that the Glock trigger he was using, while showing Ken a prototype of the gadget, was one of the worst triggers that Ken had ever shot? (http://pistol-training.com/archives/4695)


One thing I forgot to mention last week: I went back to the standard coil trigger return spring to get my trigger pull weight down. It was measuring over 8 pounds with the minus connector and NY1 trigger spring in combination with the abominable gen4 trigger bar. It was so bad that when Ken Hackathorn fired the first-ever shot through a gun with “the gadget” his first comment was “that has to be the worst trigger I’ve ever felt” or words to that effect. Marketing fail, Todd.

It's mostly the indian, not the arrow. Some arrows are better than others.

With the P-series HKs, having the heavy TRS is more important because the reset is so much longer. In the USP/HK45 series it's not nearly as important.

[Nephrology]

You are spending a lot of time in this thread. Admit it, you want an HK.

Great session with my USP 9 FS this afternoon. Easily the best HK hammer gun for a face shooter that also owns a timer.

....USP9c LEM to be exact.

[GJM]

Strange, Todd and some others seemed to drive that minivan pretty well.


Todd shot the P30 exceptionally well. However, I thought your question was how does the TLG trigger, as on a P30, compare to the hybrid match LEM on a USP FS. The answer is that there is no comparison between the two triggers. I know BCG shares my opinion, as does Nyeti. I am sorry if you don't like the answer, but that is what it is.

If it makes you feel better though, you can interpret my answer as "there is no difference between the two triggers."

[GJM]

....USP9c LEM to be exact.

You have plenty of pistols that size, and frankly, a 19 is probably more size efficient and higher performance. I would say go all in with a USP FS with the hybrid match LEM trigger if you want to see an HK hammer gun at its best in terms of pure shooting.

[BCL]

I actually have a USP40 set up with a match-hybrid-TLG-hybrid trigger (match hybrid, 12lb hammer spring, heavy TRS). Match Hybrid is better.

[GJM]

I actually have a USP40 set up with a match-hybrid-TLG-hybrid trigger (match hybrid, 12lb hammer spring, heavy TRS). Match Hybrid is better.

I also have a FS USP 45 with a regular LEM, essentially the TLG LEM. No comparison between that and the hybrid match LEM I have on other USP FS pistols. Nyeti was the one that first put me onto that hybrid match LEM that he described to me as "the best trigger on any HK hammer gun."

The other part of the question that I was answering to Breakingtimes91, was the difference between the USP FS and the P30, which I assumed was implied by his question. A P30/P2000 trigger just isn't in the same ball park with a USP FS trigger, as the reset on a P30/P2000 appears to be double or more that on the USP. Then you have the over travel stop feature of the USP. And, you have the straight sides on the USP that makes it easier for me to grip the gun hard and press the trigger straight back. All in all, mi Ivan to a Porsche 911 seems spot on.

[breakingtime91]

Todd shot the P30 exceptionally well. However, I thought your question was how does the TLG trigger, as on a P30, compare to the hybrid match LEM on a USP FS. The answer is that there is no comparison between the two triggers. I know BCG shares my opinion, as does Nyeti. I am sorry if you don't like the answer, but that is what it is.

If it makes you feel better though, you can interpret my answer as "there is no difference between the two triggers."

I'm fine with your answer. I just believe you put a lot of stock in triggers George. What evergun your infatuated with this week means very little to me.

[Nephrology]

You have plenty of pistols that size, and frankly, a 19 is probably more size efficient and higher performance. I would say go all in with a USP FS with the hybrid match LEM trigger if you want to see an HK hammer gun at its best in terms of pure shooting.

It's true. I would prefer a 3rd G19 over the 9c, actually. A lot more practical. Either way it's not something I will be buying in the near future, have other obligations and would rather feed what I already own...

[GJM]

I'm fine with your answer. I just believe you put a lot of stock in triggers George. What evergun your infatuated with this week means very little to me.

Ryan, you seem to have a real chip on your shoulder lately.

[breakingtime91]

never mind. Your right GJM.

[Dagga Boy]

Did a small amount of shooting with the USP Expert today. I am working through a pre ignition flinch lately that is just killing me, because I am not self diagnosing it. Things are feeling good on my end and just dropping shots low I should not be reading my sights. With that said.....the Expert is a single .45 cal hole gun for Wayne. Letting him get some time on it should be fun to watch. I will be on a serious dry practice routine.

[Paul Sharp]

I had the opportunity to shoot a friends USP 45f today. I'm not sure what variant, he didn't know. It's a TDA, that can be carried cocked and locked? I shot this pistol really well. The DA trigger was manageable, and the SA trigger seemed okay. I'm a flip/presser so I'm not sure if that plays a role since my finger is traveling front to back and the trigger is just a speed bump my finger runs over in route to the back of the trigger guard. I can definitely understand why folks dig these pistols. It's a tank! An accurate, tough kinda tank but still a tank.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dagga Boy]

I am sort of cracking up how all these Beretta's,USP's, Old SIG's, and even 3rd Gen S&W's are, all of a sudden, good again.

[GJM]

Most likely, your buddy has a V1, which is DA/SA with a single side thumb safety on the left side.

If he likes it, you might suggest he consider the hybrid match LEM trigger. It combines a LEM, getting rid of the 12 or whatever pound DA initial pull, and combines it with effectively a match SA trigger. Today, I was comparing the hybrid LEM with V1, and leaving aside getting rid of the DA and thumb safety, the LEM trigger is better than a V1 SA trigger and on par with the match SA, just with initial long take up.

[Exiledviking]

Is the hybrid match LEM anything like the Kahr trigger?

[Paul Sharp]

Most likely, your buddy has a V1, which is DA/SA with a single side thumb safety on the left side.

If he likes it, you might suggest he consider the hybrid match LEM trigger. It combines a LEM, getting rid of the 12 or whatever pound DA initial pull, and combines it with effectively a match SA trigger. Today, I was comparing the hybrid LEM with V1, and leaving aside getting rid of the DA and thumb safety, the LEM trigger is better than a V1 SA trigger and on par with the match SA, just with initial long take up.

That's what it was, I'll talk to him about it as I think that would really draw him into the shooting world. I'm not 100% but I'd be willing to bet his USP has fired less than 500 rounds. It was a gift from his father when he graduated from the police academy. His father wanted him to carry the best pistol possible. Except my friend wouldn't carry it...because he found out it cost his dad $800.00. "That's too expensive to carry in the snow, and rain." So he carried a G17 until he went back to school, passed the bar, is now practicing law, and a Democrat that thinks guns are okay but people shouldn't be carrying them.

On second thought, maybe I'll just talk him into selling it to me for $500.00 since guns are bad.


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[1slow]

GJM & nyeti addicted me to HK USP 45s and HK USPT 45s. I love the way they shoot and the .45 Super option. Now I have considered going back cocked and locked 45 (USP 45, USPT 45 vs my old 1911s) as a CCW pistol.

My CCW path was roughly 1911 .45 (10 years) GL21,30 (15 + years), GL19,17 (5 + years), P30 LEM 9mm ( 3 years).

I guess I need to try the USP match/LEM hybrid. How easy is it to shoot vs match / tactical single action.

How do you see the USP 9mm fullsize/Tactical/Expert etc.... in relation to P30s and HK USP 45s ?

[GJM]

Is the hybrid match LEM anything like the Kahr trigger?

To me, the Kahr and match hybrid LEM are very different. Since there have been questions, on and off forum, I made a quick video showing the hybrid match LEM trigger on a USP full size and comparing it to a P2000. The USP in the video is a 40 full size lower with the hybrid match LEM installed by HK, with my USP full size 9mm upper on it (because I was shooting the 9 upper today, and haven't had time to send the 9 lower in yet). My full size USP 45 with the hybrid match LEM trigger feels exactly the same. The P2000 in the video is stock LEM, except it has a Wolf 12 pound hammer spring in it, reducing the weight of the trigger somewhat. I trimmed the first part of the video, since you didn't need to see me clearing two pistols.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOcw7fBDbDg


Sent from my iPad

[breakingtime91]

George, since I know you have shot the current p2000 I own, the reset on Mine is quite a bit less then the reset on the one in the video. Found it interesting how long that reset was.

[GJM]

George, since I know you have shot the current p2000 I own, the reset on Mine is quite a bit less then the reset on the one in the video. Found it interesting how long that reset was.

Obviously, I sold you the good one!

That one in the video is new this month. Just went and checked my LEM .40 P2000, which was the 124th brought into the country, and the reset is like the new one. Perhaps the camera angle is misleading?

In any event, folks can see how much shorter the travel is with the USP, compared to the P2000 in the video, which makes it easier to shoot fast. I still can't figure out why they didn't put the trigger from the USP/USP Compact into the P series pistols, especially since the HK45/HK45C have shorter reset, more like the USP.

[breakingtime91]

Obviously, I sold you the good one!

That one in the video is new this month. Just went and checked my LEM .40 P2000, which was the 124th brought into the country, and the reset is like the new one. Perhaps the camera angle is misleading?

In any event, folks can see how much shorter the travel is with the USP, compared to the P2000 in the video, which makes it easier to shoot fast. I still can't figure out why they didn't put the trigger from the USP/USP Compact into the P series pistols, especially since the HK45/HK45C have shorter reset, more like the USP.

Maybe. Looking at my p2000 and the sk, maybe that is where our disconnect is happening. Both of mine have relatively short resets, not as short as the hybrid but not the mile long march your p2000 is

[OlongJohnson]

I trimmed the first part of the video, since you didn't need to see me clearing two pistols.

Unpossible! The lawz of fizix on tha inturnetz say that a gunn cleared off camera wasn't actually cleared, and you could totally shoot me right throo tha screne.








I appreciate rational people.

[newyork]

Is the hybrid match lem compatible with the HK45c or is it only for full size USP models?

[BCL]

Is the hybrid match lem compatible with the HK45c or is it only for full size USP models?

You can get most of it on the HK45C. The full match hybrid LEM is only available on the full size USP models (the match trigger with overtravel stop). I have an HK45C set up with light LEM and it feels very similar to the match hybrid LEM. You don't really need the overtravel stop on the HK45C as the trigger breaks closer to the frame than the USP.

[1slow]

To me, the Kahr and match hybrid LEM are very different. Since there have been questions, on and off forum, I made a quick video showing the hybrid match LEM trigger on a USP full size and comparing it to a P2000. The USP in the video is a 40 full size lower with the hybrid match LEM installed by HK, with my USP full size 9mm upper on it (because I was shooting the 9 upper today, and haven't had time to send the 9 lower in yet). My full size USP 45 with the hybrid match LEM trigger feels exactly the same. The P2000 in the video is stock LEM, except it has a Wolf 12 pound hammer spring in it, reducing the weight of the trigger somewhat. I trimmed the first part of the video, since you didn't need to see me clearing two pistols.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOcw7fBDbDg

Thanks for posting the video.


Sent from my iPad

[GJM]

The USP FS 9 is a tad bigger than a G17, but still that size pistol.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/image_zps8rm4smkx.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/image_zps8rm4smkx.jpeg.html)

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/image_zps1gkdvidt.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/image_zps1gkdvidt.jpeg.html)

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/image_zps1010elgq.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/image_zps1010elgq.jpeg.html)

[newyork]

Wow that's damn close in size. Too big to only have 10rd mags for but really similar to the 17.

[BCL]

Height-wise, with a mag in, the USP is a tad shorter.

[SteveB]

Things just got real. Just came back in from shooting 350 rounds in continuous moderate rain with my wife. Two holsters, sharing one gun -- the USP 9 FS.

No stoppages, which was no surprise. The surprise, though, was that my wife shot it phenomenally well, as in Gen 3 34 well, and said I better get her one and support gear.

This is really no surprise; I'm reasonably sure Charlie could pick up pretty much any pistol and shoot it well. She just has more willpower and can resist things like multiple different pistols and donuts.

[Luke]

Great. Now I want a USP9. Anyone wanna trade for a P2000 :)

[GJM]

Great. Now I want a USP9. Anyone wanna trade for a P2000 :)

Why would you want a USP 9, it is like a gamer version of an HK. Wouldn't it make Titania, or whatever her name is, jealous?

[Luke]

Tatiana*


Jealous? That's like being married to a super model and bringing home the girl from the gas station... Tatiana ain't got time for that.

[GJM]

Tatiana*


Jealous? That's like being married to a super model and bringing home the girl from the gas station... Tatiana ain't got time for that.

Remember, while you may date a Tanfoglio, you marry an HK.

[Luke]

No lie, I removed my P2000 from the holster the other day to find somewhere somehow I spilled coke/Pepsi on it it. No plans on cleaning it. It did wash off some the lint so there's a plus. She's a work horse.


I'm too scared to clean Tatiana before Georgia state... Hoping she likes it dirty, gonna be so mad if she throws a fit at the match.

[GJM]

With YVK, the daily topic of conversation is whether the Tanfoglio is running that day. A CZ is nearly HK like, by comparison.

[taadski]

A CZ is nearly HK like, by comparison.

LOL. Uummmmmm....NOT!

[GJM]

LOL. Uummmmmm....NOT!


Hater

[KneeShot]

Iam living up in Alaska and in the market for the .45 HK USP FS to utilize as George has mentioned. I remember reading somewhere on the forum (search not pulling it up) that there were a certain group of serial numbers to avoid due to reliability issues. Can/will anyone please point to this information or provide it?

Jeremy

[paul105]

Been following this thread off and on from page 1 (I think). You guys pushed me over the edge and a new FS USP should arrive Tuesday, along with some Buffalobore 230gr FMJs and 255gr Lead FPs.

I saw George's concern regarding lead in the poly rifling of the USP -- has anybody done any testing with lead bullets??

I apologize in advance if somehow I missed this in the preceeding 50 pages.

Oh, almost forgot, what weapon light/laser combo is compatible with the HK rail system?

TIA,

Paul

[GJM]

I believe SLG tried the BB hard cast load in a USP model or two, and it wasn't reliable. I would stick with the BB Super 230 FMJ-FP, as that is proven in all four of my USP 45 FS pistols, and so far in two HK45C pistols.

As to serial number ranges, KE (1994) manufacture USP FS 9/40 have pre polygonal barrels and should be better with hard cast. Early guns may require some firing pin mods, that HK can do, to have the latest and greatest parts.