Recommendation on Full Size Revolver"

[Trex]

Looking for a "full size" revolver for my collection that could serve the following roles: 1) Hunting up to medium-size animals (.357 mag should be sufficient)... 2) backup CCW piece should my Glock 19 and backup G19 and backup backup G19 be unavailable... 3) Training/familiarity for myself and others on revolver use (using lighter loads such as .38sp)... 4) Something to pair with a lever action rifle of identical caliber should the desire arise.

I think a 4" .357 mag is ideal because 4" is minimum barrel length for hunting whereas anything bigger than 4" is too large to CCW. I don't envision myself ever CCWing with it, or ever using it in a survival role, but currently owning no full-size revolvers (only a .38 snubbie), it seems like having a 4" .357mag could be useful and fun. Price and weight are non-issues. Durability and accuracy are most important. Heavy and expensive are fine. I'm thinking one of the "vintage" S&W pre-lock models would work for my needs. Any suggestions appreciated.

[Dagga Boy]

S&W 686SSR or Ruger Match Champion.

[Robinson]

Find either an older or a new S&W Model 27 in 4" configuration, then change the grips (stocks) to suit your needs.

For shooting lots of magnum rounds a Ruger GP100 is a good choice. Most (not all) of these have a full underlug beneath the barrel which provides a slightly muzzle-heavy balance. This can be a benefit when shooting the more powerful rounds. A S&W 586 or 686 is an alternative, not quite as strong but typically strong enough for long years of service. Some say the triggers on S&W revolvers can be tuned more effectively than those on Rugers. I tend to agree, assuming a skilled gunsmith.

The S&W K Frame revolvers of the past reportedly did not hold up to a lot of magnum shooting, which is one reason the 586/686 (L Frame) guns were developed. However, the K Frame guns are nice for carrying and qualify as full size revolvers. A Model 19 (blued) or Model 66 (stainless) is equipped with adjustable sights, perhaps better than fixed sights for hunting. The current Model 66 has been redesigned for better strength and durability, it should hold up to use of magnum rounds better than the older guns.

In some locales hunting deer is not permitted with a barrel length less than 6" so check your local/state regulations. Finally, don't assume the ammunition you select as the best choice for a revolver is also the best choice for a lever action rifle/carbine. The lever guns typically do better with the heavier bullets, and I would suggest jacketed soft points or hard cast bullets for that use. Hollow points may come apart due to the increased velocity. My .357 Magnum lever guns liked 158 grain bullets the best. The 158 grain bullets also tend to work nicely in revolvers, but different bullet designs such as quality hollow points may be better for defensive use.

[okie john]

A 4" .357 is almost never wrong, but its the cylinder that makes concealed carry a challenge. A 6" gun is not that much harder to hide than a 4" gun if the frames are the same size. Going from a 4" M-19 from a 4" M-28 to is a much bigger step than going to a 6" M-19.

Any S&W with adjustable sights is a good call. Based on your needs, I'd look at an L-frame.


Okie John

[Hizzie]

Ruger GP100 Match Champion. Either version. Hamilton Bowen sells his Rough Country rear sight as a replacement for the adjustable rear. Novak was in the process of patenting their adjustable Novak to fit the sight they put on the Ruger guns.

[BehindBlueI's]

I *love* my Match Champion.

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb183/Docwagon1776/Mobile%20Uploads/20140419_103529_zps5034c0bd.jpg

I'm about to love the new Redhawk in 45ACP/.45 Colt as well. That'd be a really decent piece for what you want, too. .45 Colt can be loaded up to take about anything you're going to hunt with a handgun.

[jh9]

Only knock against Ruger that comes to mind is the fact that if anything goes wrong, it's a trip back to the factory. Not sure if the policy has changed, but if you have any aftermarket work done (trigger job) it will be restored to factory config. The rimfire shooters I knew used to loathe having to send their Mark 2s back because it meant having to remove a couple hundred bucks worth of Volquartzen parts before shipping it off. Unless it's changed the situation is: No parts available. Factory service only. No custom work on return.

In contrast, Midway and Brownells are awash in MIM parts for modern S&Ws, and still have most things you might need for the older guns.

If that doesn't phase you, Ruger's a good choice. The last 2 S&Ws I bought slicked up good, but needed work. The Ruger Match Champion I tried seemed good out of the box. The only thing I would have changed was springs. Couple hundred bucks cheaper, too.

Don't know if Ruger is still servicing them, but if so the Six series grandpa used for a duty gun was super nice. There's a few on gunbroker for not much money. And they're closer to K-frame size for easier carry.

http://www.gunbroker.com/All/BI.aspx?Keywords=ruger+speed+six

edit: I think the Ruger GPs have a spring loaded setup for the front sight? Don't remember for sure. On most S&Ws this is a gunsmith affair (pinned or brazed). Some guns (686SSR, 627PRO, etc) have the classic/DX sight setup that doesn't require tools, but most don't. Point to the Ruger since changing the front sight is kind of a big deal for most folks.

[JHC]

S&W 686SSR or Ruger Match Champion.

That's my vote.

re 4" vs 6" - I carried a 6" Model 57 IWB for about a year as a young man when that's all I had. It can be done but it was a LOT of work. 4" is way more flexible. The cylinder may be the same but 6" is a lot of barrel to account for.

[HCM]

Only knock against Ruger that comes to mind is the fact that if anything goes wrong, it's a trip back to the factory. Not sure if the policy has changed, but if you have any aftermarket work done (trigger job) it will be restored to factory config. The rimfire shooters I knew used to loathe having to send their Mark 2s back because it meant having to remove a couple hundred bucks worth of Volquartzen parts before shipping it off. Unless it's changed the situation is: No parts available. Factory service only. No custom work on return.

In contrast, Midway and Brownells are awash in MIM parts for modern S&Ws, and still have most things you might need for the older guns.

If that doesn't phase you, Ruger's a good choice. The last 2 S&Ws I bought slicked up good, but needed work. The Ruger Match Champion I tried seemed good out of the box. The only thing I would have changed was springs. Couple hundred bucks cheaper, too.

Don't know if Ruger is still servicing them, but if so the Six series grandpa used for a duty gun was super nice. There's a few on gunbroker for not much money. And they're closer to K-frame size for easier carry.

http://www.gunbroker.com/All/BI.aspx?Keywords=ruger+speed+six

edit: I think the Ruger GPs have a spring loaded setup for the front sight? Don't remember for sure. On most S&Ws this is a gunsmith affair (pinned or brazed). Some guns (686SSR, 627PRO, etc) have the classic/DX sight setup that doesn't require tools, but most don't. Point to the Ruger since changing the front sight is kind of a big deal for most folks.

Ruger no longer services the security six / speed six/ service six. Parts are available on the secondary market (gun parts corp) but if something breaks Ruger will take the broken gun in trade towards a GP 100. Been down that road once before.

[ford.304]

I have a 4" GP 100, and I love it to death, but I don't have anything approaching a use for it. It's big and heavy as hell for carrying, and minimum barrel length for hunting in Ohio is 6" :(

[scott]

You won't go wrong with a 686ssr or a match champion. That said, Since ccw use is a long shot, focus on hunting and fun. I'd look for a 4 inch model 28 or 27. They're tough enough for whatever loads you want for hunting, and the extra weight soaks up the already mild recoil of 38s. They're great fun with wadcutters, and have way more cool points than newer guns.

[The Apprentice]

Love my 4" 686 dont think I would ever ccw with it but as a night stand or woods gun sure. Wouldn't mind getting my hands on a 386 either but they seem to be fare and few between. Would also consider the r8 but it would almost definately rule out ccw that cylinder is chuncky but 8 rounds of 357 sounds like fun to me. At least for a little while.

[KPD]

Looking for a "full size" revolver for my collection that could serve the following roles: 1) Hunting up to medium-size animals (.357 mag should be sufficient)... 2) backup CCW piece should my Glock 19 and backup G19 and backup backup G19 be unavailable... 3) Training/familiarity for myself and others on revolver use (using lighter loads such as .38sp)... 4) Something to pair with a lever action rifle of identical caliber should the desire arise.

I think a 4" .357 mag is ideal because 4" is minimum barrel length for hunting whereas anything bigger than 4" is too large to CCW. I don't envision myself ever CCWing with it, or ever using it in a survival role, but currently owning no full-size revolvers (only a .38 snubbie), it seems like having a 4" .357mag could be useful and fun. Price and weight are non-issues. Durability and accuracy are most important. Heavy and expensive are fine. I'm thinking one of the "vintage" S&W pre-lock models would work for my needs. Any suggestions appreciated.

I started out in 1992 with a 4" 686 in my duty holster. Sometimes I would carry that off duty.
We were eventually issued SIG P229s in 1994 and I got rid of my 686.

Around 19 years ago I got a 4" GP100. That GP100 in a Kramer vertical scabbard has served as my off duty piece when I didn't have anything else and couldn't carry my issued piece (like on vacation). It has remained while a whole pile of Glocks, SIGs, HKs, S&Ws and other guns have come and gone. I have a 3" WC GP100 now since 2013 also but honestly, I think I prefer the 4" GP100.

I tried a S&W M&P R8. That thing was junk right out of the box. S&W wouldn't even issue an RMA to look at it. The shop where I bought it tried to make it right but it would still only fire 50% of the time at best. I still want one though because I think they are sick.

[Trex]

Thanks for the input to all. :)

[shootist26]

686 is a fine choice. One thing I did was to upgrade the sights. I utterly despised the red ramp front sight. In my experience, it was hard to pick up at speed and I found the red ramp insert to be blurry with little defined outline, making it hard to focus during slow fire as well.

For the front sight, I went with a Dawson precision tritium front w/ white ring. Rear sights were the fixed cylinder & slide extreme duty plain black series. If it's for hunting, you may want an adjustable rear. But I have found my fixed rears to shoot well with a variety of bullet weights.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?7129-Looking-to-upgrade-my-S-amp-W-686-revolver-sights/page2

[Little Creek]

I suggest a S&W M686 Pro-Series. It is a 7-shot 357 magnum, cut for moon clips, with a PC profile 5" bbl. and an easily removable front sight (held in by spring loaded plunger). I have one and it is no heavier than my 4" 686. I like it. I also like the matching M986 9mm.

[Lost River]

Personally if going with a .357, I would go with an N Frame 5" like a Model 27.

The balance and shootabilty of 5" N Frames is beyond compare in my book.

[Pistol Pete 10]

New gun a 4" 686, used a 19 or a 66. I thought everyone knew this.

[TheRoland]

They're actually making the 66 again, and this time with a full "shoot all magnums" forcing cone. I've got one, and they're pretty nice. I'm surprised there's no thread on this here.

[1986s4]

I have a 686-2 that I really like. Red ramp front, white outline rear sights. Not wild about the sights, usable but I'm going to get something different as it is my competition revolver. Minor action job with one of the newer cylinder releases makes it easier to shoot and reload. Pretty sure I would have been happy with the GP100 too. Lots of guys around here use them in competition.
I have a 3" K frame Smith that I've shot a handful of magnums through. I just love the fireball and heat blast! With a good solid grip and a set of unexciting goodyears for stocks it isn't uncontrollable.

[David S.]

In this instance Why do you guys specifically recommending the Match Champion over Standard or WC models?

[BehindBlueI's]

In this instance Why do you guys specifically recommending the Match Champion over Standard or WC models?

Well, the WC is a 3" gun, and in the way I personally catalog revolvers, full size doesn't start until 4". I don't know there's any real standard, this is just my personal bias.

The MC has several things going for it over the standard GP100. The grip, while fugly to me, is really a good grip. Concealment may suffer, but its certainly easy to shoot. The FO front sight and adjustable or Novak rears is a good set up for general outsoorsy type shooting. IIRC, the MC gets a polish job to the trigger at the factory (someone fact check me on that, pls). The half lug and champhered cylinder may not have much functional difference, but it looks nice.

I like the MC and the WC, just for different reasons. I think of the MC as more of a duty gun, the WC as more of a plain clothes/conceal gun. (Yes, I know, revolvers aren't cool for duty carry these days...but some of us do anyway).

[JonInWA]

Ruger GP100-in any of its 4" incarnations-full lug blued, half-lug blued, full lug stainless, half lug stainless, fixed sights or adjustable sights, "regular" or Match Champion.

I'd recommend replacing the grips with the original OEM compact grips that were the OEM G100 grips on the fixed-sight GP100; Ruger has recently re-introduced them as an after-market option on their www.shopruger site:

http://shopruger.com/Rubber-Grips-with-Rosewood-Inserts-Compact/productinfo/70084/

They're comfortable, superbly concealable, and relatively inexpensive. They're large enough that you get a full-handed grip with them, and even though compact, the revolver is still very controllable with them.

Best, Jon

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae343/JonInWA/Ruger%20GP100/DSCN3295.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/JonInWA/media/Ruger%20GP100/DSCN3295.jpg.html)

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae343/JonInWA/Ruger%20GP100/DSCN3296.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/JonInWA/media/Ruger%20GP100/DSCN3296.jpg.html)

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae343/JonInWA/Ruger%20GP100/DSCN1287.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/JonInWA/media/Ruger%20GP100/DSCN1287.jpg.html)

The last image shows a OEM full-size grip next to the installed compact grip for comparison

[gorgo331]

How about a Ruger New Model Blackhawk? Simple, built like a tank and accurate as all get-out. With the transfer bar safety you can carry six in the cylinder safely and it'll eat any .357 ammo you can stuff in it. Besides, cowboy guns are fun!

[Zeke38]

I've carried 357s on duty and off since 1971. I've owned close to 100 of them. Today I own 4, a 586 4", a Ruger Match Champion Adjustable sights 4", a GP 100 3" with adjustable sights that is currently with Clements Gunsmithy and a Ruger SP101 Wiley Clapp.

My favorite of 44 years of carrying and shooting 357s, the Match Champion w/Adjustables. That may change when the 3" comes back from Clements. Close second is the 586 but I don't like the front sight, my old eyes don't like orange colored ramps!

[Johnny Walker]

Ruger GP100-in any of its 4" incarnations-full lug blued, half-lug blued, full lug stainless, half lug stainless, fixed sights or adjustable sights, "regular" or Match Champion.

I'd recommend replacing the grips with the original OEM compact grips that were the OEM G100 grips on the fixed-sight GP100; Ruger has recently re-introduced them as an after-market option on their www.shopruger site:

http://shopruger.com/Rubber-Grips-with-Rosewood-Inserts-Compact/productinfo/70084/

They're comfortable, superbly concealable, and relatively inexpensive. They're large enough that you get a full-handed grip with them, and even though compact, the revolver is still very controllable with them.

Best, Jon

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae343/JonInWA/Ruger%20GP100/DSCN3295.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/JonInWA/media/Ruger%20GP100/DSCN3295.jpg.html)

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae343/JonInWA/Ruger%20GP100/DSCN3296.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/JonInWA/media/Ruger%20GP100/DSCN3296.jpg.html)

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae343/JonInWA/Ruger%20GP100/DSCN1287.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/JonInWA/media/Ruger%20GP100/DSCN1287.jpg.html)

The last image shows a OEM full-size grip next to the installed compact grip for comparison

John, please advise which sights you have installed on your GP100... is that the Millet front sight I see?? Are you using the stock rear sight or have you changed that as well?

[SLG]

Late to the party...

I'd either take Lost River's advice above, or skip all the above mentioned mid bores and go to a 44 or 45.

A 5" barrel is exactly as easy for me to carry/conceal/draw as a 4", and shoots much easier for me (more accurate and more powerful). You mentioned hunting, and if you mean deer when you say midsize critters, then I would much prefer the bigger bores. A 44 magnum or special can be loaded up or down for anything you want to do, even with factory ammo if you don't reload. (S&W 24/624/29/629 - tons of configurations)

A 45 Colt can also be factory loaded up or down, and a few will allow for ACP to be shot as well. (Redhawk, Blackhawk - though it sounds like you really want a DA revolver)

Without spending a lot of money, a 4" 29/629 would be my choice, though if the 45colt/45acp Redhawks start working better, that would be a very strong contender for me.

[JonInWA]

John, please advise which sights you have installed on your GP100... is that the Millet front sight I see?? Are you using the stock rear sight or have you changed that as well?

It has a Millett set comprising of the Millett Orange Bar front sight and Millett White Outline rear sight-sadly, both are currently made of unobtanium.

Best, Jon

[Hizzie]

Late to the party...

I'd either take Lost River's advice above, or skip all the above mentioned mid bores and go to a 44 or 45.

A 5" barrel is exactly as easy for me to carry/conceal/draw as a 4", and shoots much easier for me (more accurate and more powerful). You mentioned hunting, and if you mean deer when you say midsize critters, then I would much prefer the bigger bores. A 44 magnum or special can be loaded up or down for anything you want to do, even with factory ammo if you don't reload. (S&W 24/624/29/629 - tons of configurations)

A 45 Colt can also be factory loaded up or down, and a few will allow for ACP to be shot as well. (Redhawk, Blackhawk - though it sounds like you really want a DA revolver)

Without spending a lot of money, a 4" 29/629 would be my choice, though if the 45colt/45acp Redhawks start working better, that would be a very strong contender for me.

If you listen to this guy ^ then take a hard look at the Ruger Redhawk. In my samplings the standard RH's have better factory triggers than SRH's. The trigger reach on the RH is also shorter than the SRH - even with Lett grips.

[BehindBlueI's]

If you listen to this guy ^ then take a hard look at the Ruger Redhawk. In my samplings the standard RH's have better factory triggers than SRH's. The trigger reach on the RH is also shorter than the SRH - even with Lett grips.

I'm a Ruger fan and I wouldn't buy another Redhawk for a nickel. Single action is ok but double action has a hump in the middle and is heavy. Unless you plan to reload heavy, the S&W 29 or 629 beats the Redhawk hands down.

[jetfire]

I'm a Ruger fan and I wouldn't buy another Redhawk for a nickel. Single action is ok but double action has a hump in the middle and is heavy. Unless you plan to reload heavy, the S&W 29 or 629 beats the Redhawk hands down.

The Redhawk action lends itself really well to being cleaned up and can result in some shockingly good triggers. It shares parts compatibility with the GP100, so the Wilson Combat spring kit will go a long way towards helping the action. Then just polish up some key areas and all of a sudden you've got an 8 pound DA pull that rolls right through.

[BehindBlueI's]

The Redhawk action lends itself really well to being cleaned up and can result in some shockingly good triggers. It shares parts compatibility with the GP100, so the Wilson Combat spring kit will go a long way towards helping the action. Then just polish up some key areas and all of a sudden you've got an 8 pound DA pull that rolls right through.

Negative. That's the Super Redhawk. The Redhawk is it's own beast and is inferior to the GP100 and SRH in terms of feel and in flexibility of pull weights.

http://www.grantcunningham.com/2013/11/ruger-redhawk-vs-super-redhawk-whats-the-difference/

[jetfire]

Negative. That's the Super Redhawk. The Redhawk is it's own beast and is inferior to the GP100 and SRH in terms of feel and in flexibility of pull weights.

http://www.grantcunningham.com/2013/11/ruger-redhawk-vs-super-redhawk-whats-the-difference/

While I was wrong about the parts compatibility (which happens, oh well) you're dead wrong about it being inferior to the Super Redhawk in terms of feel and flexibility of pull weights. I guess I should probably tell Hamilton Bowen to stop making awesome custom Redhawks because they're inferior to the SRH. :rolleyes:

[BehindBlueI's]

While I was wrong about the parts compatibility (which happens, oh well) you're dead wrong about it being inferior to the Super Redhawk in terms of feel and flexibility of pull weights. I guess I should probably tell Hamilton Bowen to stop making awesome custom Redhawks because they're inferior to the SRH. :rolleyes:

From an e-mail from Hamilton Bowen on 11/04/15 when I contacted him about getting a decent trigger in my Redhawk:


Redhawks are wonderful guns but they are plagued with ignition problems, especially with the shorter transfer bars used in the last decade or so. If you have installed some sort of reduced-pressure mainspring, best to throw it in the dumpster and start with a fresh factory part. We do not used low-pressure springs under any circumstances. DA pull weight will be a bit heavier than a nice S&W but, tuned well, most run as smoothly. We can usually get an acceptable SA pull weight of around 3.5—4 lbs. in most guns. Worst-case scenario, we do have extra-strong mainsprings.

So, ignition problems that the SRH doesn't have. Cannot reduce pull weights to the levels of S&W or SRH and still have reliable ignition. That, to me, equates to both an inferior design and less flexibility.

[BehindBlueI's]

Since Caleb mentioned Bowen customs, let's look into that a bit more.


The dual-action spring system, while ingenious, is often part of the problem since, to reduce felt single-action pull weights, owners have employed reduced-pressure mainsprings instead of tuning the sear surfaces for improved trigger action and weight. Using any sort of reduced mainspring in a standard Redhawk is inviting trouble. The Super Redhawk, on the other hand, has a separate trigger return spring which can be changed for a reduced-pressure part without jeopardizing actual ignition power through the hammer. For this reason, the Super Redhawks are viewed as more dependable and easier to tune. Properly handled, standard Redhawks will still tune very well but one should be mindful of the potential for ignition trouble and be especially careful.

Source: http://www.bowenclassicarms.com/news.html scroll down to DECEMBER 11, 2011, there's quite a bit more information there.

Like I said originally, if you do not plan to shoot heavy loads the S&W 29/629 is probably the way to fly for a .44. If you do want to shoot heavy loads the Super Redhawk is probably the way to fly. If you want the middle ground of a lighter revolver still capable of heavy loads, the Redhawk probably fits the bill. Just be aware that if you want reliable ignition with a wide variety of ammunition you need to factor in the cost of custom parts and/or labor to get it there. The spring set up also will not let you get to S&W pull weights, and the break is not as clean as the S&W or the Super Redhawk. The pull with S&W or SRH builds steadily and then breaks. The Redhawk geometry makes the trigger weight build, peak, then lighten again before it breaks. I love the aesthetics of the Redhawk and am going to sink the money into it to make it as good as Bowen can get it, but customization should be optional, not something that's mandatory for reliability.

[Rex G]

A bit late to see this, but FWIW, I love the classic 4" S&W Model 19, and the 4" to 6" GP100. My 19 is a 19-5, which is post-Bangor Punta, but pre MIM/keyhole, which I acquired pre-owned a few years ago. (I think it is Lear-Siegler era.) I had previously owned Models 19 and 66 that had MIM parts, but were pre-keyhole, and a pinned-&-recessed 19, but sadly, sold or traded these when I started my serious 1911 buying in the late Nineties.

My favorite GP100 is 4", stainless steel, with a lugged barrel, that I bought in the early Nineties, when I finally admitted to myself that N-frames were too large for my hands. I started carrying it on duty in June 1993, as an interim weapon between selling my P220 with a heel-clip mag release, and acquiring a P220 with the push-button mag release. Well, two weeks into carrying the GP100, I used it to put a devastatingly-effective hole through an opponent, and this interim gun became my long-term duty sixgun, until I switched to lighter-weight K-frames about 1995. (I never bought the "American" P220, but did start using autoloading duty pistols in 1997.)

[Hizzie]

A bit late to see this, but FWIW, I love the classic 4" S&W Model 19, and the 4" to 6" GP100. My 19 is a 19-5, which is post-Bangor Punta, but pre MIM/keyhole, which I acquired pre-owned a few years ago. (I think it is Lear-Siegler era.) I had previously owned Models 19 and 66 that had MIM parts, but were pre-keyhole, and a pinned-&-recessed 19, but sadly, sold or traded these when I started my serious 1911 buying in the late Nineties.

My favorite GP100 is 4", stainless steel, with a lugged barrel, that I bought in the early Nineties, when I finally admitted to myself that N-frames were too large for my hands. I started carrying it on duty in June 1993, as an interim weapon between selling my P220 with a heel-clip mag release, and acquiring a P220 with the push-button mag release. Well, two weeks into carrying the GP100, I used it to put a devastatingly-effective hole through an opponent, and this interim gun became my long-term duty sixgun, until I switched to lighter-weight K-frames about 1995. (I never bought the "American" P220, but did start using autoloading duty pistols in 1997.)

You like the GP100 trigger reach and an N-Frame is too much? Play with a Redhawk. I get more nose picker on a RH trigger than Gen3 G19.

[jetfire]

Since Caleb mentioned Bowen customs, let's look into that a bit more.



Source: http://www.bowenclassicarms.com/news.html scroll down to DECEMBER 11, 2011, there's quite a bit more information there.

Like I said originally, if you do not plan to shoot heavy loads the S&W 29/629 is probably the way to fly for a .44. If you do want to shoot heavy loads the Super Redhawk is probably the way to fly. If you want the middle ground of a lighter revolver still capable of heavy loads, the Redhawk probably fits the bill. Just be aware that if you want reliable ignition with a wide variety of ammunition you need to factor in the cost of custom parts and/or labor to get it there. The spring set up also will not let you get to S&W pull weights, and the break is not as clean as the S&W or the Super Redhawk. The pull with S&W or SRH builds steadily and then breaks. The Redhawk geometry makes the trigger weight build, peak, then lighten again before it breaks. I love the aesthetics of the Redhawk and am going to sink the money into it to make it as good as Bowen can get it, but customization should be optional, not something that's mandatory for reliability.

Oh man, that's right. I forgot that some people feel like they need light SA triggers in DA guns instead of just learning to shoot the gun better. You can get a Redhawk DA trigger pull down to 10 lbs, and if you can't manage that you suck and should probably just practice more.

[BehindBlueI's]

Oh man, that's right. I forgot that some people feel like they need light SA triggers in DA guns instead of just learning to shoot the gun better. You can get a Redhawk DA trigger pull down to 10 lbs, and if you can't manage that you suck and should probably just practice more.

It's ok to just say you were wrong instead of lashing out.

[Hizzie]

Oh man, that's right. I forgot that some people feel like they need light SA triggers in DA guns instead of just learning to shoot the gun better. You can get a Redhawk DA trigger pull down to 10 lbs, and if you can't manage that you suck and should probably just practice more.

My new sig line.

[Tamara]

This is just a great excuse to post my fave 4" medium frame CCW .357: a factory round-butt Model 19-5, possibly a State Department contract overrun.

4793

[DamonL]

You have the coolest guns.

[Sigfan26]

Late to the party...

I'd either take Lost River's advice above, or skip all the above mentioned mid bores and go to a 44 or 45.

A 5" barrel is exactly as easy for me to carry/conceal/draw as a 4", and shoots much easier for me (more accurate and more powerful). You mentioned hunting, and if you mean deer when you say midsize critters, then I would much prefer the bigger bores. A 44 magnum or special can be loaded up or down for anything you want to do, even with factory ammo if you don't reload. (S&W 24/624/29/629 - tons of configurations)

A 45 Colt can also be factory loaded up or down, and a few will allow for ACP to be shot as well. (Redhawk, Blackhawk - though it sounds like you really want a DA revolver)

Without spending a lot of money, a 4" 29/629 would be my choice, though if the 45colt/45acp Redhawks start working better, that would be a very strong contender for me.

I'd like to echo this. Also, perhaps, add the current S&W 69 (or 66 if you really want a .357).

[Sammy1]

S&W 686

[jetfire]

It's ok to just say you were wrong instead of lashing out.

I can't remember the last time I shot a DA revolver in single action. I don't have training wheels on my bicycle any more either.

[BehindBlueI's]

I can't remember the last time I shot a DA revolver in single action. I don't have training wheels on my bicycle any more either.

Neat. That doesn't negate anything I said about flexibility. The fact you don't care about the flexibility doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Let's go back and look at what you said and what I said before you decided it was a personal attack.


The Redhawk action lends itself really well to being cleaned up and can result in some shockingly good triggers. It shares parts compatibility with the GP100, so the Wilson Combat spring kit will go a long way towards helping the action. Then just polish up some key areas and all of a sudden you've got an 8 pound DA pull that rolls right through.

Ok, you've already admitted that was wrong. The Redhawk has it's own action.


While I was wrong about the parts compatibility (which happens, oh well) you're dead wrong about it being inferior to the Super Redhawk in terms of feel and flexibility of pull weights. I guess I should probably tell Hamilton Bowen to stop making awesome custom Redhawks because they're inferior to the SRH. :rolleyes:

Already addressed. Even Bowen states they are not as flexible in terms of pull weights. So, you're wrong. Feel is subjective, but I don't see many people asking for a hump in the middle of their trigger pull.


Oh man, that's right. I forgot that some people feel like they need light SA triggers in DA guns instead of just learning to shoot the gun better. You can get a Redhawk DA trigger pull down to 10 lbs, and if you can't manage that you suck and should probably just practice more.

I thought it was 8 lbs. Right. If you think 10 lbs is good enough, great. That doesn't change that it is less flexible than a GP100 or S&W, which can get below that and still have reliable ignition.

If you shoot in SA or not is irrelevant to which revolver has more options for pull weight. If you prefer a 15 lb trigger and shoot walnuts at 200y with it, that doesn't change which revolver has more options for pull weight.

[jetfire]

Okay.

[Tamara]

Caleb, I love you like a brother, but you're wrong about it being okay to shoot Ruger revolvers. It's bad and wrong, just like shooting Colts, and you should feel bad. (People tell me it's also wrong to shoot foreign revolvers, but they're just funnin' me because there's no such thing as foreign revolvers.)

However you're absolutely right about not shooting DA revolvers in single action. I paid extra for a DA trigger and only some kind of un-'Murrican commie symp pinko would shoot the gun in SA mode.

(This post may be read with whatever degree of tongue in cheek it takes to get a chuckle. ;) )

[BehindBlueI's]

Caleb, I love you like a brother, but you're wrong about it being okay to shoot Ruger revolvers. It's bad and wrong, just like shooting Colts, and you should feel bad. (People tell me it's also wrong to shoot foreign revolvers, but they're just funnin' me because there's no such thing as foreign revolvers.)

However you're absolutely right about not shooting DA revolvers in single action. I paid extra for a DA trigger and only some kind of un-'Murrican commie symp pinko would shoot the gun in SA mode.

(This post may be read with whatever degree of tongue in cheek it takes to get a chuckle. ;) )

http://ct.fra.bz/ol/fz/sw/i59/5/7/23/frabz-Girl-You-best-check-yo-self-8bc8f2.jpg

[Tamara]

I sense someone who thumb-cocks their DA revolvers. NTTAWWT! ;)

[BehindBlueI's]

I sense someone who thumb-cocks their DA revolvers. NTTAWWT! ;)

Pfft, if you're going to cock it, cock it like a real man. Fanning.

[Tamara]

Pfft, if you're going to cock it, cock it like a real man. Fanning.

http://staticdelivery.nexusmods.com/mods/1151/images/4274-0-1449139069.gif

[Jeep]

However you're absolutely right about not shooting DA revolvers in single action. I paid extra for a DA trigger and only some kind of un-'Murrican commie symp pinko would shoot the gun in SA mode.

(This post may be read with whatever degree of tongue in cheek it takes to get a chuckle. ;) )

Tongue in cheek or not, it's true. Shooting a DA revolver in SA mode is just wrong, and leads to things like slingshoting slides instead of using the slide release or not cleaning firearms soon after using them.

[LOKNLOD]

or not cleaning firearms soon after using them.

Whoa whoa whoa. Once I get a gun sighted in I stop cleaning it or I might wash the accuracy out of it. Right? I read that on a Facebook group.

[Robinson]

Clean them?

... and I cock the hammers on my DA revolvers about 10% of the time when shooting, just because I enjoy it.

[jh9]

The SA capability is intact on all my DA revolvers.

I have before and will again use it on poppers and those bitty steel plates that some sadistic stage designer decided to place in the next bloody county.

I apologize for nothing.

/cigarette+blindfold

[Gray222]

Everyone is posting "full size" revolvers and I'm just over here like...


http://i.imgur.com/mLgOi8X.jpg

[Tamara]

As a S&W collector, it pains me that I will at some point need to acquire an X-frame and a Z-frame, just as representative examples. There are some kinda cool X-frames out there, but there's no way I'm going to feel good about myself buying a Governor. :(

[jh9]

Everyone is posting "full size" revolvers and I'm just over here like...


http://i.imgur.com/mLgOi8X.jpg

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/fwNvIM2W9Aw/hqdefault.jpg

F*** you, whale! F*** you, elephant!

[LSP972]

... or not cleaning firearms soon after using them.


Hey, now… sloth is okay, IF we're talking about a dedicated "practice gun". That's why I have at least two of all my "serious" firearms… one stays ready (clean and lubed) for use or carry, the other/s get cleaned when I get around to it. I have deliberately not cleaned several guns until they choked, just to see how far they would go. My HK 9mms and Beretta 92 were still chugging along at 1000 rounds, so I gave up and cleaned them. The HK45C made it to just a tad over 800 rounds; a P2000 .40 began getting balky at 750+; and one of my Bowie G19s started choking intermittently just shy of a thousand.

Academic, of course, because I'm religious about keeping the "working" iron scrupulously clean and lubed. But its nice to know that, when I get home from a range session, I can just throw everything back in the safe if I don't feel like cleaning it.

Interesting topic, this. Just today, I found myself with absolutely nothing pressing to do- a VERY rare day at the lab. So I volunteered to look over/clean the car/carry guns of my Firearms Section colleagues. One of the senior examiners, an avid hunter and outdoorsman, handed me a stock G17 and said "You won't find anything amiss with this baby."

Right; it was bone dry, and he was really surprised when I brought him the heavily-rusted mag catch spring. The discussion which followed was… spirited.:D

.

.

[Wondering Beard]

but there's no way I'm going to feel good about myself buying a Governor. :(

Would it help if you thought of it as acquiring a weird 45 Colt snubby.

Since I'm not a collector, I fortunately don't have to buy one, but having had collector tendencies, I feel your pain.

[Buckshot]

Tongue in cheek or not, it's true. Shooting a DA revolver in SA mode is just wrong, and leads to things like slingshoting slides instead of using the slide release or not cleaning firearms soon after using them.

I'm on board with you - out of 8 DA revolvers I own, only 1 has a hammer spur (it has a secondary role as a training gun for new shooters)

[Tamara]

Hey, now… sloth is okay, IF we're talking about a dedicated "practice gun". That's why I have at least two of all my "serious" firearms… one stays ready (clean and lubed) for use or carry, the other/s get cleaned when I get around to it.
...
Academic, of course, because I'm religious about keeping the "working" iron scrupulously clean and lubed. But its nice to know that, when I get home from a range session, I can just throw everything back in the safe if I don't feel like cleaning it.

I hate "soulless steel" guns and sold most of them from my collection, but I love them for the range bag. I need to get a good 4" 64 or 65 to go in there...

[SLG]

I shoot my revolvers mostly DA, and seem to have the same size groups as SA, so it doesn't much matter to me. However, I like having the SA on the heavy duty guns, and even Ross Seyfried said that there is really no reason to shoot DA when hunting. I usually hate appeals to authority (though sometimes it really is applicable), but if Ross likes SA, I'm good with that. :-)

[Hizzie]

Some data points I collected after arguing trigger reach with someone.

Backstrap to trigger face measurements:
SRH Alaskan w/Lett grips 71mm
RH 4.2" w/Hogue Tamers 69mm
GP100 w/Compact Letts 70mm

[High Pockets]

Before I'd give close to a grand for a match revolver I'd look at the old Ruger lines first as they were well made and never heard of issue with hitting what you amed at.I would include speed six ,security-six security-six has movable site whereas the speed isix didn't.
Ruger gp-100 line is another fine revolver. I think anyone of these would provide good service for considerable savings.

[BehindBlueI's]

Before I'd give close to a grand for a match revolver I'd look at the old Ruger lines first as they were well made and never heard of issue with hitting what you amed at.I would include speed six ,security-six security-six has movable site whereas the speed isix didn't.
Ruger gp-100 line is another fine revolver. I think anyone of these would provide good service for considerable savings.

If you want a Six Series, the time to buy is yesterday. The market seems to be catching on to these and prices have been adjusting upward accordingly, at least locally. I think the GP100 has a better trigger, personally, but the Six series are perfectly serviceable.

[Willard]

If you want a Six Series, the time to buy is yesterday. The market seems to be catching on to these and prices have been adjusting upward accordingly, at least locally. I think the GP100 has a better trigger, personally, but the Six series are perfectly serviceable.

May never be an issue, but if it is, it really is...Ruger does not service these (at least it is hit or miss). I sent a like new model six series back to factory on an RMA...they didn't have parts to fix problem with front latch fastening to end of ejector rod. They could not repair, but did give me a new revolver of my choosing (best customer service of my life)...point not a slam on Ruger by any means...if anything a praise, but point being you can't always guarantee a fix (or that level of CS) and it may be preferable to just buy what you can service (GP100). I've come over to that way of thinking last few years. YMMV.

[LSP972]

...it may be preferable to just buy what you can service (GP100). I've come over to that way of thinking last few years. YMMV.

And that is smart.

The same situation exists with older (pre-90s) S&W revolvers. Certain key parts are all but unobtainium these days; the factory may have some left, but they aren't turning loose of them. I do know of several older K-frames that were returned from the factory as "unrepairable"; no other explanation was given, but I'm betting it was due to a lack of the necessary parts.

I get calls every so often from guys who know I have a stash of old parts, needing this or that. My answer is always the same; "Sorry, can't help you." When S&W began going to MIM parts, some changes were made to accomodate the MIM process. Some MIM parts will work on the older guns; some won't.

The older Smiths, like Rugers, are very hardy critters. But extended use WILL wear certain parts beyond serviceablity. Its certainly something to keep in mind if you shoot an older, out-of-print revolver a lot.

.

[LSP972]

If you want a Six Series, the time to buy is yesterday.

Indeed. They are tanks. A pristine 2.75" barreled stainless Speed Six crossed my bench last week. Talk about the perfect "truck gun"... but I was saddened to know that this one was destined for the chop saw.

Hindsight is always 20/20. To be able to go back, say, 30 years, with ten grand of today's money... the things I'd buy...

.

[jetfire]

Indeed. They are tanks. A pristine 2.75" barreled stainless Speed Six crossed my bench last week. Talk about the perfect "truck gun"... but I was saddened to know that this one was destined for the chop saw.

Hindsight is always 20/20. To be able to go back, say, 30 years, with ten grand of today's money... the things I'd buy...

.

A good used Six is running north of $400 on Gunbroker these days, which makes me sad because I remember when they used to be like, $225. The one problem with a six as a competition gun is that you can't get Comp-IIIs for them, which are the best speedloaders for competition.

[xray 99]

If you want a Six Series, the time to buy is yesterday. The market seems to be catching on to these and prices have been adjusting upward accordingly, at least locally. I think the GP100 has a better trigger, personally, but the Six series are perfectly serviceable.

So true. I check the shelves at the lgs and never see used Six series revolvers. I first qualified with a stainless, 4-inch Secuity Six as a rookie corrections officer circa 1985.

[Clay]

My first handgun was a Ruger Security Six. I paid $299. Late 1980's or so, IIRC. I shot 125gr. magnums through the gun the entire time I had it. It was a peach.

[deputyG23]

My BIL has a six inch stainless Six he bought new in the '80s. It is truly a tank. He probably will never get rid of it.

[TeflonDon]

Delete