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Mr_White
06-30-2015, 08:23 AM
Week 118: 25 yard El Presidente

Results may be posted until July 30th, 2015.

Range: 25 yards
Target: Three USPSA Metric targets
Start Position: Facing uprange, wrists above shoulders
Rounds Fired: 12
Procedure: Start with pistol loaded and holstered, facing uprange with wrists above shoulders. Upon start signal, turn and draw and shoot two shots to each target, reload, and shoot two shots to each target. No extra shots allowed.

Concealment is optional.

Targets spaced one yard apart - we are doing the USPSA Classifier version of El Prez, but at 25 yards.

The reload can be from slidelock or an in-battery reload.

IDPA targets are optional.

Record hits and times. Add up the points. Divide your points by your time to get your hit factor. For the sake of simplicity, if you are shooting 9mm/.38 Spl, you will have Minor scoring. If you are shooting .40/.45/.357, you will have Major scoring. For Minor scoring, A = 5 points, B/C = 3 points, D = 1 point. For Major scoring, A = 5 points, B/C = 4 points, D = 2 points. If you are using IDPA targets, score the -0 zones as As, the -1 zone as Cs, and the -3 zone as Ds.

For reference, here is a video of noted GM Yong Lee shooting this drill:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzjqdkG2wCM&feature=youtu.be

Please report the following when you post your results in this thread:

Gun, holster, concealment used (if any)
Targets used
Points
Time
Hit factor (points divided by time)
Anything you noticed during the drill

Training with firearms is an inherently dangerous activity. Be sure to follow all safety protocols when using firearms or practicing these drills. These drills are provided for information purposes only. Use at your own risk.

BehindBlueI's
07-03-2015, 12:12 PM
Shot cold, first thing I did at the range today.

Gun, holster, concealment used (if any) : Sig P229 .40, Comp-tac Infidel, polo style shirt. Reloads in Blade-tech IDPA dual mag pouch.
Targets used : IPSC torso style
Points : 42
Time : 12.90
Hit factor (points divided by time) : .307
Anything you noticed during the drill : I started shifting to a target focus after the reload instead of a front sight focus. I had some indexing issues drawing from a tight to the body IWB as opposed to the offset holster I am used to. I need to crank my wrist over a bit more so my sights aren't pointing a bit left when I pull

JHC
07-03-2015, 02:34 PM
I'm damn sure not shooting this one cold! Good on ya. Sub 13 sounds pretty fast

BehindBlueI's
07-03-2015, 02:57 PM
I'm damn sure not shooting this one cold! Good on ya. Sub 13 sounds pretty fast

Thanks. This is the first time I've done it and I'm not sure what a good base line is. I'm definitely going to try it with my P226 when it comes back, too.

Luke
07-03-2015, 04:23 PM
Shot it cold, with a newish gun, in the rain, with some of the thirstiest mosquitoes I've ever seen.

Glock 17 gen4
MSRkydex IWB gun and spare mag concealed.
USPSA targets
60 points
32.01 seconds (wooooow... A turtle passed me twice before I was done :( )
1.87 hit factor? Not sure if I'm doing this right.. 60 devided by 32.01?

I noticed :
Draws from concealed SUCK! I train and play with OWB but carry IWB.. Doesn't make sense, I know. Gonna fix that. Also need to work on a better grip out of the holster. Need to try and speed things up instead of going slow and getting a nice slow trigger press. Lots to things to work on. This is my first ever DOTW, pretty nervous announcing to the whole world I suck.

BehindBlueI's
07-03-2015, 05:52 PM
This is my first ever DOTW, pretty nervous announcing to the whole world I suck.

60 points is a perfect score. All "A" zone hits at 25y isn't sucking.

I can't help on the hit factor thing. I don't know if high or low is good. I just did the math that was presented.

EricM
07-03-2015, 10:44 PM
Gen 4 G34, Blade-Tech OWB, no concealment, USPSA metric targets

First run: 2A2C x3, 48 / 12.59 = 3.81 HF

http://icedesigns.com/echo0603/pf/070315/ep25f.jpg

I like running drills like this at longer-than-normal ranges so I ran it five times total. The first run wasn't terrible but I was disappointed in the number of C's...accuracy was better on all subsequent runs (54s and 56s), and all but one with a totally botched reload were faster than the first as well.

Best of 5: 4A 3A1C 2A2C, 54 / 11.04 = 4.89 HF

http://icedesigns.com/echo0603/pf/070315/ep25b.jpg

backtrail540
07-03-2015, 11:03 PM
Higher hit factor is better. It is simply points per second. So the the ultimate goal being shooting max points as fast as you can but many will find you can drop a few points and go faster to achieve a better score.

EricM
07-03-2015, 11:06 PM
This is my first ever DOTW, pretty nervous announcing to the whole world I suck.

60 points is a perfect score. All "A" zone hits at 25y isn't sucking.

Agreed! And props on shooting it in those conditions, that's hardcore. :D You may have seen them already but Mr_White did an excellent job with a series of drills starting in Week 95 that really break down the components of going fast (grip, draw, trigger press, reloads)...adopting that approach of studying and practicing each element separately has been immensely helpful to me, IMO it is a very productive way to learn to do things right at speed.

olstyn
07-03-2015, 11:43 PM
Points : 42
Time : 12.90
Hit factor (points divided by time) : .307

Looks like you did the math backwards; your hit factor is actually 42/12.90 = 3.2558, which seems pretty good to me for that distance, especially given that you shot it cold. When/if I get the chance to set this up and shoot it, I expect it to be quite challenging to find an acceptable balance between accuracy and speed.

Luke
07-04-2015, 12:23 AM
Agreed! And props on shooting it in those conditions, that's hardcore. :D You may have seen them already but Mr_White did an excellent job with a series of drills starting in Week 95 that really break down the components of going fast (grip, draw, trigger press, reloads)...adopting that approach of studying and practicing each element separately has been immensely helpful to me, IMO it is a very productive way to learn to do things right at speed.

For some reason a couple weeks ago when I bought a new pistol (said g17) I was having a horrible time shooting it. Like, undoing everything I knew and it was like Fischer price my first gun! A fellow PF on here went above and beyond and offered for me to come shoot with him and see if he could help. He found my problem in the first 2 minutes of shooting. I had developed a nasty flinch/anticipation. So he sent me home to do some ball and dummy. I've been trying to do one ball and dummy a day and a little dry fire everyday. ALL my live fire has been dedicated slow fire focusing on perfect trigger and or ball and dummy.

With that said my accuracy has sky rocketed and I feel like a new shooter. What I didn't notice till today is that my accuracy has come at a price, TIME!! Hope to speed things up and look forward to participating in future DOTW's!

BehindBlueI's
07-04-2015, 09:26 AM
Looks like you did the math backwards; your hit factor is actually 42/12.90 = 3.2558, which seems pretty good to me for that distance, especially given that you shot it cold. When/if I get the chance to set this up and shoot it, I expect it to be quite challenging to find an acceptable balance between accuracy and speed.

Ah, thanks. Yeah, I flipped them.

I really enjoyed this drill. I had planned to do it with my GP100 as well, but I didn't take my normal concealment garment (sports coat) and didn't have anything to hold the reload. Next week I think I'll run it again and also try the revolver.

JHC
07-04-2015, 11:26 AM
Ah, thanks. Yeah, I flipped them.

I really enjoyed this drill. I had planned to do it with my GP100 as well, but I didn't take my normal concealment garment (sports coat) and didn't have anything to hold the reload. Next week I think I'll run it again and also try the revolver.

Yes this one has such an extreme accuracy component vs raw speed my 9mm Glocks might not run away with it. I'll try my 1911 also albeit my precision is better with Glocks these days. But wheelies too.

nwhpfan
07-05-2015, 02:44 AM
First time making a video using movie maker...... but here's my runs!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-1XQ2QEH64

JHC
07-05-2015, 10:57 AM
Week 118: 25 yard El Presidente


Gun, holster, concealment used (if any)
Targets used
Points
Time
Hit factor (points divided by time)
Anything you noticed during the drill



All shot on IPSC target from OWB, no concealment

Guns: Gen 4 G17, Gen 3 RTF2 G19, Gen 4 G26, Sams 1911, S&W Model 10 4" pencil barrel

G17 50 points, time 11.95, HF 4.18

G19 48 points, time 10.18, HF 4.72
G19 54 points, time 13.28, HF 4.07


G26 48 points, time 15.00, HF 3.20

1911 52 points, time 15.66, HF 3.32

4" Model 10 .38 52 points, time 20.64, HF 2.52

Observation - high hit factor and high points today was with the RTF2 G19. Visually it looked faster and flatter handling.

BN
07-06-2015, 05:17 PM
CZ P-01, Comp Tac holster, no concealment
IDPA targets
42 points
11.73 time
HF 3.7168

Second run
Gen 2 G-17 Comp-Tac no concealment
IDPA targets
44 points
time 11.98
HF 3.6727

JHC
07-06-2015, 05:22 PM
In general I'm not fond of the IPSC hit factor method of scoring. Too much speed reward vs accuracy.

Mr_White
07-06-2015, 05:55 PM
In general I'm not fond of the IPSC hit factor method of scoring. Too much speed reward vs accuracy.

I don't love hit factor scoring with the Major points scheme, but it's pretty good with Minor (accuracy intensive, without forgetting speed.)

JHC
07-06-2015, 06:12 PM
I don't love hit factor scoring with the Major points scheme, but it's pretty good with Minor (accuracy intensive, without forgetting speed.)

Yeah the major gets an eye roll. I forgot to factor that scoring my devastator 230 gr FMJ.

I like total time and time added for C, D hits etc. It's the refuge of slower fuckers.

Clobbersaurus
07-07-2015, 12:00 AM
Beretta 92G, 124g re-manufactured ammo, AIWB Holster, Blackhawk mag pouches. IPSC classic targets.

44 points, 12.66 Sec, HF 3.48

I only shot two 25 yard El Prez's but ruined my first run with a malfunction (failure to feed, bad mag) and didn't record the time. I was pissed that I didn't just tap rack, instead I looked at it wondering what the hell was wrong for several seconds before I tap racked...(sigh).I think working on transitions so much helped me with this drill, may thanks to DOTW for that. I'd like to try this with an IPSC metric target, just to compare the accuracy to the IPSC classic targets I used.

taadski
07-08-2015, 11:07 PM
I shot this drill a few times during the course of a 300 round session this afternoon, but I recorded my first two cold runs below thinking about you guys and this thread...


Sig 226 9mm (minor scoring)
Standard USPSA metric target
OWB Bladetech holster
No concealment.


Run 1: 9.86
2A, 2C
3A, 1C
2A, 2C
50/60 points
HF 5.0709


Run 2: 9.77
1A, 3C
4 A
4 A
54/60 points
HF 5.7318


I was intrigued by this one. In the midst of some new load testing, I've been spending some time shooting at distance of late. Including some 25 yard Bill drills, some slow fire group shooting stuff at the 50 yard line, a bunch of Garcia Dot drills, etc… The further stuff sure makes the targets look big when you move back in to the 25, but the reintroduction of speed can definitely still lead to drama! :p I shot these two cold runs in my best approximation of "match mode".




t

JHC
07-09-2015, 04:47 AM
Strong. I was in no way cold; I was lathered up!

I'm digging this one too and will hit it some more.

Mr_White
07-12-2015, 11:39 PM
Gen3 G34, Keeper, polo shirt
USPSA Metric targets

First run:
52 points
8.88 seconds
5.85 hf

Second run:
52 points
8.24 seconds
6.31 hf


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUtu7ipg4vI

JHC
07-13-2015, 06:39 AM
Any profound observations on this drill Mr. White?

Mr_White
07-13-2015, 11:18 AM
Any profound observations on this drill Mr. White?

1. It was hard

2. I need to do more live fire practice

3. Didn't beat Yong Lee, but was happy enough with it as a cold run I guess (first run anyway)

JHC
07-13-2015, 11:58 AM
1. It was hard

2. I need to do more live fire practice

3. Didn't beat Yong Lee, but was happy enough with it as a cold run I guess (first run anyway)

Crazy hard. I've shot it two weeks now. I should force myself to shoot it at a near guarantee all alphas pace just to see that that would take. 30 sec or so I suspect.

taadski
07-13-2015, 12:34 PM
Hard is right.


That said, I went to our local USPSA match this weekend feeling confident having spent a bunch of time with such difficult shooting problems lately. As Murphy would have it, our MD selected 08-01 as the classifier. Not to derail, but check it out if you have a second. That thing ATE……MY……LUNCH. :confused:


…back to practice.


t

Mr_White
07-13-2015, 01:07 PM
Hard is right.


That said, I went to our local USPSA match this weekend feeling confident having spent a bunch of time with such difficult shooting problems lately. As Murphy would have it, our MD selected 08-01 as the classifier. Not to derail, but check it out if you have a second. That thing ATE……MY……LUNCH. :confused:


…back to practice.


t

Depends on the high hit factor, but I can definitely see what you are saying - looks ripe to be a truly ridiculous one. A similar one that I have shot is 03-10. It's too bad because they are great shooting challenges, it's just the unbelievably high HHFs that make them completely preposterous as classifiers (haven't done the math on 08-01, but that's definitely what I think of 03-10.)

JHC
07-13-2015, 01:23 PM
Hard is right.


That said, I went to our local USPSA match this weekend feeling confident having spent a bunch of time with such difficult shooting problems lately. As Murphy would have it, our MD selected 08-01 as the classifier. Not to derail, but check it out if you have a second. That thing ATE……MY……LUNCH. :confused:


…back to practice.


t

What do they mean by "scored - best 6 hits/paper"? You could be scored on only the freestyle Bill Drills?

http://uspsa.org/classifiers/08-01.pdf

taadski
07-13-2015, 01:52 PM
What do they mean by "scored - best 6 hits/paper"? You could be scored on only the freestyle Bill Drills?

http://uspsa.org/classifiers/08-01.pdf


Without that verbiage, reading the description, folks could just shoot both strings on the front (closer) two targets. That'd be nicer… ;)




Depends on the high hit factor, but I can definitely see what you are saying - looks ripe to be a truly ridiculous one. A similar one that I have shot is 03-10. It's too bad because they are great shooting challenges, it's just the unbelievably high HHFs that make them completely preposterous as classifiers (haven't done the math on 08-01, but that's definitely what I think of 03-10.)

Yeah, it's insane. Just to give you an idea, R.A. shot it "pretty well" (his voiced opinion) and wound up at 86%, barely Master (in limited).

In production, the 100% mark is 5.93ish HF; Which correlates to around 10.2 seconds per string. :-0


ETA- Somebody let fly at some point on this one and managed to keep em all in there.


t

BCL
07-13-2015, 07:58 PM
ETA- Somebody let fly at some point on this one and managed to keep em all in there.


Or the HHF is from Open, like Can You Count...

Range1
07-17-2015, 02:25 PM
Equipment used: Pistols as listed below; Safariland ALS OWB holsters, CompTac or Safariland magazine holders; hiking vest for concealment; USPSA metric targets.

Weather: Hot and humid

Run 1: Gen 3 Glock 34; Time – 14.76; Points – 54; Hit Factor – 3.65
Run 2: Gen 4 Glock 23 with Lone Wolf Distributors 9mm conversion barrel; Time – 16.44; Points 54; Hit Factor – 3.28
Run 3: M&P Pro Series 9mm; Time – 15.16; Points – 38; Hit Factor 2.51
Run 4: Same M&P Pro Series 9mm; Time – 21.71; Points 48; Hit Factor 2.21
Run 5: M&P Full Size .40; Time 17.60; Points 44; Hit Factor 2.50 (Scored Major)

Starting with Run 3 I began having great difficulty focusing on the front sight and really struggled getting a good sight picture / sight alignment. Decided to try again to determine if I could do any better after resting my eyes for a short time. Of course on Run 4 I fumbled the draw and mega fumbled the reload. So much for that. Definitely not the pistols fault. Run 5 I was still having trouble getting front sight in focus so stopped DotW 118 took a break and moved on to DotW 120.

raks
07-27-2015, 11:27 PM
GP Xtrim, ipsc holster, no concealment shot on IDPA targets.

1: 10.24, 9pts down = IPSC HF 4.98
2: 9.62, 13 down = HF 4.88
3: 10.58, 7 down = HF 5.01

Yeah this is a hard drill, but I wasted a lot of time on the draw and reload. First shots were around 1.8 - 1.9 and reloads were in the 2s mark, grinding both those down would bump up the HF significantly.