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View Full Version : How NOT to make a felony traffic stop.



Trooper224
06-23-2015, 05:22 PM
Or any other kind for that matter.

Jesus wept..................
https://gma.yahoo.com/dash-cam-footage-shows-moment-charleston-church-shooting-182303332--abc-news-topstories.html

jnc36rcpd
06-23-2015, 05:37 PM
I had the same thought.

BehindBlueI's
06-23-2015, 06:08 PM
The article says they pulled him over for following too close. Didn't they have anything better to do? Weren't there murderers they could be...oh, right.

voodoo_man
06-23-2015, 07:04 PM
...wat

KevinB
06-23-2015, 08:30 PM
DaFuQ...

All other words fail me.

SecondsCount
06-23-2015, 09:12 PM
It makes me wonder if they knew him.

pablo
06-24-2015, 01:08 AM
I'm not the least bit surprised. There are a surprising number of cops and agencies that just don't do felony stops. Sometimes it's poor training, an it can't happen here attitude, or a fear of getting hammered for felony stopping someone that turned out to not be the right person.

KeeFus
06-24-2015, 06:05 AM
I'm not the least bit surprised. There are a surprising number of cops and agencies that just don't do felony stops. Sometimes it's poor training, an it can't happen here attitude, or a fear of getting hammered for felony stopping someone that turned out to not be the right person.

Im wondering that as well. From watching the video it seems that it was not confirmed that it was the vehicle until after the suspect was out of the car...and the dispatcher says it was verified from the news agency. Ive stopped more than my fair share of vehicles and some of them from anonymous callers that just wanted the car stopped because they thought they were drunk or it ended up being some other drama (prank caller or some other bs). Im wondering if they had enough information to make a well informed decision on the vehicle before approaching the car.

Having said all that...why the fuck would you rely on a news agency to verify a wanted vehicle/person. NCIC would have verified the tag within seconds. Dispatchers can make your job extremely easy or hard as hell. Ours generally tend to suck which is why I only use them when I have no other option...as in calling in traffic stops or running someone through NCAWARE...which is our State wide warrant system. I run all my other information through the MCT which is faster than waiting on them to bother to give me it back in some abbreviated form over the radio, usually leaving out necessary information.

Hambo
06-24-2015, 06:46 AM
Dudes, it's day shift. At least where I come from they had different priorities than afternoon and nights.

41magfan
06-24-2015, 07:48 AM
Im wondering that as well. From watching the video it seems that it was not confirmed that it was the vehicle until after the suspect was out of the car...and the dispatcher says it was verified from the news agency. Ive stopped more than my fair share of vehicles and some of them from anonymous callers that just wanted the car stopped because they thought they were drunk or it ended up being some other drama (prank caller or some other bs). Im wondering if they had enough information to make a well informed decision on the vehicle before approaching the car.

Having said all that...why the fuck would you rely on a news agency to verify a wanted vehicle/person. NCIC would have verified the tag within seconds.


Hmmmmm ...... what if neither the suspect or the vehicle had been entered into NCIC yet and the only outlet for information regarding this suspect WAS the news media? Hmmmmmmm ......

Coyotesfan97
06-24-2015, 12:09 PM
Dudes, it's day shift. At least where I come from they had different priorities than afternoon and nights.

This is what I was thinking too.


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Chuck Haggard
06-24-2015, 12:33 PM
It's almost like Newhall never happened or something...........

Dagga Boy
06-24-2015, 12:49 PM
I just threw up in my mouth...:-(

John Hearne
06-24-2015, 01:12 PM
Really???

pablo
06-24-2015, 01:32 PM
In my mind, given the general nature of the situation, if some of the officers thought they should approach with guns drawn, then they one of them should have taken charge and said we're doing a felony stop. Regardless of what's in NCIC, that hair standing up on the back of neck feeling should have kicked in.

I know I'm preaching to the choir, but everyone is much safer doing a felony stop in this situation and apologizing later if they're wrong.

Erick Gelhaus
06-24-2015, 01:54 PM
And then when a high risk stop is done correctly, and the bad guy decides to take it south, this will get trotted out as an example of how being nice works out.

What was it Gary Rovarino said, quoting someone else I'm sure? Oh yeah. "Fortuitous outcomes reinforce bad tactics."

SMH ... Wall search and one pistol out when cuffing the guy; yet when clearing the trunk, two pistols are pointed in.

KeeFus
06-24-2015, 02:11 PM
Hmmmmm ...... what if neither the suspect or the vehicle had been entered into NCIC yet and the only outlet for information regarding this suspect WAS the news media? Hmmmmmmm ......

Well if that were the case I would not be surprised. At this point we dont really know what information they had. One would think that the various federal and state agencies involved in that case would have had that info available through NCIC.

So, at this point we have a florist who called her boss because she was running late. At the same time she notices this vehicle and is unsure if it is or is not related to the incident. She relays this info to her boss who then calls 911 and relays the info that he is getting from her. Can we say holy third person info batman. Then relying on a telecommunicator to relay the correct info that he is getting from the ladies boss...who is relaying what she is saying.

Im not going to second guess them as I wasn't there. I have the same thoughts in regards to a felony stop but we do not know what they knew or did not know. I know from experience that relying on third party he-said-she-said info is a recipe for failure. It worked out this time in all aspects. Luck may have played a part. At the end of the day the officers went home and the bad guy is back in SC.

VegasHK
06-24-2015, 02:49 PM
No worries....Roscoe had Flash waiting just off camera. Kid was done and didn't know it.

Trooper224
06-24-2015, 07:46 PM
Im not going to second guess them as I wasn't there. I have the same thoughts in regards to a felony stop but we do not know what they knew or did not know. I know from experience that relying on third party he-said-she-said info is a recipe for failure. It worked out this time in all aspects. Luck may have played a part. At the end of the day the officers went home and the bad guy is back in SC.

That kind of attitude leads to bullshit tactics with bullshit outcomes. I wasn't there either, but that doesn't mean I'm going to excuse the near incompetent behavior of nearly every LEO in that video. I don't care if you're making a felony stop or stopping your wife to tell her to pick up a gallon of milk, that's not the way to do it. We have enough videos floating around where we're accused of being incompetent when we, in fact, did our jobs. We don't need to reinforce negative perception with negative reality.

KeeFus
06-25-2015, 05:37 AM
That kind of attitude leads to bullshit tactics with bullshit outcomes. I wasn't there either, but that doesn't mean I'm going to excuse the near incompetent behavior of nearly every LEO in that video. I don't care if you're making a felony stop or stopping your wife to tell her to pick up a gallon of milk, that's not the way to do it. We have enough videos floating around where we're accused of being incompetent when we, in fact, did our jobs. We don't need to reinforce negative perception with negative reality.

Thanks for your thoughts on the matter.. I would think that a felony stop was in order as well...as I already mentioned. But we do not know what info they had or did not have. We do know that it was third hand info and they were relying on a news source for suspect info. Third hand info and news media are not the same as NCIC responses, as you well know. If anyone is willing to take those sources as reliable then have at it.

BehindBlueI's
06-25-2015, 09:25 AM
Thanks for your thoughts on the matter.. I would think that a felony stop was in order as well...as I already mentioned. But we do not know what info they had or did not have. We do know that it was third hand info and they were relying on a news source for suspect info. Third hand info and news media are not the same as NCIC responses, as you well know. If anyone is willing to take those sources as reliable then have at it.

There are MANY mistakes you can see that are completely irrelevant with what they knew or didn't know.

Do I draw? Do I holster? Should I do it repeatedly even though the situation hasn't changed?
Do I stand directly behind a car that still has someone in the driver's seat on any type of traffic stop?
How many times should I stop looking at the suspect to reassure myself I still have cops behind me?
When should I stand directly behind another cop on a traffic stop?

I wasn't there. I didn't have to be. There was a lot of indecision and milling about with no plan there, and that's not the right way to do business no matter what they knew.

wilco423
06-25-2015, 10:30 AM
I wasn't there. I didn't have to be. There was a lot of indecision and milling about with no plan there, and that's not the right way to do business no matter what they knew.

Exactly. Had it gone south, they weren't in solid positions to do much about it.

Erik
06-25-2015, 11:02 AM
One of the lessons learned might be at least LOOK like you know what you're doing. This is so far out of my lane that I couldn't find it on a map, but even I watch that video and think, "What a clusterfuck." Running to danger is one thing. Walking in front of a bunch of confused looking fellow officers with guns drawn when there's a risk that things might go badly seems like a difficult ask.

KevinB
06-25-2015, 12:58 PM
Too many officers spoil the cake...

With 2 days to reflect on this, it was a situation where too many folks got involved and no one person sat back for a second to take control - now ideally one would not send 6 folks up to visit - cause honestly it was more for a visit than a stop.

KeeFus
06-25-2015, 01:49 PM
All, my comments are and have been narrowly addressing the why not a felony stop question and dispatchers and the info they do and do not relay. As to the general happy-go-lucky events after not doing a felony stop I WHOLE HEARTEDLY AGREE with everyone. Obviously there is a training issue.

I still believe there was a communication failure here in regards to the vehicle, the officers, and the dispatcher. I hope that it comes to light so we can understand what happened.

Gary1911A1
06-25-2015, 04:50 PM
A little off subject, but did you notice the officer you going front of the camera to block the view? We all know why he stood there don't we.;)