True Detective Season 2

[LittleLebowski]

Starting out dark.

[Sasage]

Just downloaded it. Hope it is as good as season 1.

[farscott]

Unlike many of the critics, I enjoyed the premiere episode of Series 2. I like that the show does not just jump into the "case"; instead, it spends some time setting the table. The most compelling character, so far, for me has been Ani (Rachel McAdams) as her issues have issues. Her home speaks to her mindset, and that suggests she should not be on the street. It should be interesting to see where the story takes her. I am not sure that Vince Vaughn can rise to the level of acting that we saw in Series 1, especially after watching a stereotypical reaction to being put into his place. Enjoy seeing David Morse as Ani's father and his line about his other daughter's name.

Looking forward to more.

[LittleLebowski]

I am not sure that Vince Vaughn can rise to the level of acting that we saw in Series 1, especially after watching a stereotypical reaction to being put into his place.


You should have more faith in one of the few pro-gun actors in Hollywood today :D

[LSP972]

I like that the show does not just jump into the "case"; instead, it spends some time setting the table. .

This. Those are some seriously flawed LE types, so you know bad things are just an eye-blink away. Should be interesting, at least.

.

[BaiHu]

I enjoyed it. My only 2 concerns are:

1. The opening music choice sucks.
2. Can Vaughn pull it off.

[RoyGBiv]

I thought the premier was Meh. Lots of stereotypes with a varnish of moodiness. Opening credits suck as bad as last season (way too long, terrible music, visually boring), but last season turned out well so I'm not awarding any negative points for that.

I, too, had my mind's eye distracted by a Wedding Crashers image of Vaughn. I think he'll be ok, but his character is plagued by more stereotypes. Kelly Reilly may (I hope) turn out to be the most interesting character for me.... She seemed more "in charge" than your average moll. Hopefully she turns out to be more Mags Bennett than bimbo arm candy.

2.5 stars on the Premier, mostly for the way too many stereotypes.

[LittleLebowski]

I really hope they are not going to do the tired old trope about "PMCs (ala Blackwater) are eeevil" with the "Black Stone" bit.

[Hambo]

The first episode of season 1 had me hooked and I binge watched the rest of it. I'm not feeling the same about this season, and it's not the cast that bugs me. The corruption and bent cops story just isn't as compelling as the unsolved case of season 1. I'm also concerned that different directors won't be able to stay as focused as the single director of the first season.

[breakingtime91]

I like it so far. Two out of the three cops are drunks, which kind of set the pace for me.

[rauchman]

Liking it so far. If I hadn't watched last season, I might be a little confursed / turned off. Knowing how things built up last season, I'm more than willing to have patience with bringing the story together. As mentioned, many dark and flawed characters that are interesting.

Regarding Vince Vaughn, I'll admit I don't know all his work, but of his performances I've seen, this is the first one where he's not doing comedy. I think this performance will be his entry into more serious roles, and he'll do this role well. So far I find his portrayal of his character credible.

[LSP552]

The first episode of season 1 had me hooked and I binge watched the rest of it. I'm not feeling the same about this season, and it's not the cast that bugs me.

i know, it's because LSP Detectives are just so cool..........:D

[Trooper224]

The premiere didn't immediately grab me like Season 1, but I'm willing to stick with it.

[WDW]

I love this show! I thought last night's premiere was really good.

[Hatchetman]

First episode, first season left me "meh" because it really seemed to be shilling existential pretension, but I got hooked as things developed.

First episode, second season left me "meh" because so much time was spent making Really Damn Sure the viewer understood the four characters that appear will be the leading players this season all have major angst, unresolved issues, and dark character flaws that will all be doubtless tossed in the mix this season. I'm hoping it proves to be a setup for good things to come.

Don't like Leonard Cohen, Ban? Barbarian! He's my favorite artist to get drunk and morose to.

And I'm hoping the folder next to Ani's gun in the awkward morning scene and the what appeared to be a karambit she stuffed in her sock in the locker room come into play. It would be wicked cool if the female lead had some blade skills, particularly if she employed them realistically off the ground or something.

[MRW]

I like it so far. Different feel than last season. Almost feels like a story from an Ellroy novel. I like the unique California settings. It has more of 50-60's crime story feel to it as opposed to a Southern Gothic/horror vibe. The settings are a nice contrast from the Louisiana settings from last season. The gun nerd in me likes that the Ray Velcoro character carries a P-35.

[LittleLebowski]

i know, it's because LSP Detectives are just so cool..........:D

That is common knowledge on this forum.

[JHC]

And I'm hoping the folder next to Ani's gun in the awkward morning scene and the what appeared to be a karambit she stuffed in her sock in the locker room come into play. It would be wicked cool if the female lead had some blade skills, particularly if she employed them realistically off the ground or something.

I think you get your wish! https://www.facebook.com/showcasechannel/videos/1051980228148449/?pnref=story

[Dagga Boy]

I don't have Hbo and will have to wait for DVD, but having worked with a lateral from Vernon PD......this should be interesting on how they portray some SoCal stuff.

[OnionsAndDragons]

We watched s2e1 last night. Both loved the first season.

This opener felt kinda meh, aside from some of the Ani scenes. We shall see. I'm definitely interested in seeing her perforate a few jagoffs. I perked up a bit when I saw her stuff the karambit in her boot, too. :)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[RoyGBiv]

Whoa!

[NickDrak]

Oh WTF???!!!

Colin Farrell's character was my favorite so far....well, other than "Woodrugh's" girlfriend (shazaam).

[Gadfly]

Episode 2 was much better than 1, it got me interested far more than the first episode. But I understand they had to establish character back story.

It seems a much more convoluted tangle of crime and agency pissing matches than season one.

For anyone who has not worked a multi agency investigation, I can tell you "turf war pissing matches" as depicted last night do happen. Not every time, but they are not uncommon at all...

Looking forward to more.

(And Colin will be fine)

[RoyGBiv]

Oh WTF???!!!

Colin Farrell's character was my favorite so far....well, other than "Woodrugh's" girlfriend (shazaam).

I doubt "was" is the correct tense.... but still ... Whoa!

Much better than E1.

[MRW]

Go back and watch the trailers for Season 2 they put out a while back on YouTube. I don't think we've see the last of Velcoro.

[breakingtime91]

should of kept that gun out.... just sayin

[SJC3081]

I'm getting tired of Cop TV where every cop is a drunk or has ruined marriage and a fucked up family.
BTW I suspect that shotgun assignation was a set up by Vince's Character. Why insist that the house must be visited tonight?

[Dropkick]

Even if the first round was a bean bag or something... I don't know how the point blank round wouldn't break bones or crush organs.

[NEPAKevin]

I'm getting tired of Cop TV where every cop is a drunk or has ruined marriage and a fucked up family.


And is on the take and/or abusing power to further personal agendas. FWIW, as a Deadwood fan, I would like to see W. Earl Brown's character, Dixon, pull himself out of the bottle and gouge out a few more eye balls.

[Wondering Beard]

Almost feels like a story from an Ellroy novel.


It does

[MRW]

I would like to see W. Earl Brown's character, Dixon, pull himself out of the bottle and gouge out a few more eye balls.

Or impale someone on a mounted buck's antlers......

[Hatchetman]

Or impale someone on a mounted buck's antlers......

Wonder if he has any Chinese acquaintances who keep pigs.

[Sasage]

I'm getting tired of Cop TV where every cop is a drunk or has ruined marriage and a fucked up family.
BTW I suspect that shotgun assignation was a set up by Vince's Character. Why insist that the house must be visited tonight?
It's a possibility.

He did mention wanting to get out of the game.

[LSP972]

It's a possibility.

He did mention wanting to get out of the game.

And there was that limo with your standard-issue thug/driver/observer, sitting behind the wheel, parked across the street when old Ray got out at the address he had been given. Ray wasn't half (or completely) in the bag, so one wonders why he didn't notice it?

On second thought, perhaps that was the original killer; he had a big gunboat ride of some sort.

I dunno; a load of shot to the back from 20 feet, and another load to the stomach at contact distance? Unless they show it was less-lethal munition (beanbag or whatever), old Ray would be done. And even if he did survive, he would be out for months recuperating.

Guess we'll see, but I think it is rather evident that house is the original crime scene; the video set-up should yield some clues for knife-bitch.

.

[LSP972]

FWIW, as a Deadwood fan, I would like to see W. Earl Brown's character, Dixon, pull himself out of the bottle and gouge out a few more eye balls.

Ha. I thought I knew that guy from somewhere. Yeah, Deadwood was outstanding. Jericho was another one that went away too soon.

.

[Erik]

On second thought, perhaps that was the original killer; he had a big gunboat ride of some sort.


There was also that big bird mask thing the shooter was wearing, which was on the seat of the car the body was transported in.

[LSP972]

There was also that big bird mask thing the shooter was wearing, which was on the seat of the car the body was transported in.

Missed that. So, there you go.

.

[NEPAKevin]

I dunno; a load of shot to the back from 20 feet, and another load to the stomach at contact distance? Unless they show it was less-lethal munition (beanbag or whatever), old Ray would be done.
.

When we recorded Ballers, it caught the last couple of minutes of TD right when the shooting starts and FWIW, considering the realistic special effects available, there were no squibs, fake blood spay or splatter, nothing.

[Sasage]

Missed that. So, there you go.

.
Almost certain the shooter is the guy who dumped the body in ep 1

[farscott]

So far all of the best scenes are when two of the three cops are in the car talking. My latest fave: "Is that a f!@#ing E-cigarette?", and Ami's look at Paul after that line is delivered.

[NEPAKevin]

This season seems slow and it does not have the chemistry that gave the first season its "odd couple on crack" magic.

[BaiHu]

Agreed. Although the last one is starting to draw me in slowly....

[RoyGBiv]

Vaughn is doing a good job portraying a cornered cat. Slowly unraveling his claws. Like.

Who is pulling the strings orchestrating his woes? Could it be his Moll?

[Sasage]

Episode 3 was the best so far.

[MRW]

The last episode was good. I liked it opening with a Twin Peaks-like scene with a Conway Twitty impersonator singing to Velcoro and his dad in the empty dive bar. Frank conducting impromptu dental surgery was good too. Watching that character unravel as the season progresses is going to be good.

[vaglocker]

I've been trying to give this season a chance. I knew season one was going to be a tough act to follow and it has turned out to be true.

[OnionsAndDragons]

The third episode has convinced me to stick with it. I have no hopes of it comparing favorably to season one, though. That was a masterpiece, and unlikely to be repeated.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Wendell]

I'm the only one who found that contrived fight scene hard to watch? Cheesy cheese. He (Vaughn) is a joker, but, quite clearly, not a fighter.

[BaiHu]

I'm the only one who found that contrived fight scene hard to watch? Cheesy cheese. He (Vaughn) is a joker, but, quite clearly, not a fighter.
I'm with you on this. It reminded me of two ineffective men I saw fighting on the boardwalk 10 years back. By ineffective, I mean tired, out of shape and lacking any technique or experience in the endeavor. Lucky for them it showed and they both walked away with only ego damage.

[Robinson]

Well, TV shows that feature authentic fight scenes are not very common -- they have to work with what they have.

Plus this was just for entertainment. TV fights are choreographed for the masses, not for experts.

[BaiHu]

Agreed, but even season 1 had good fight/altercation scenes like the last few episodes that put McConaughey in the hospital.

[voodoo_man]

Wheel cop is gana gay his way out of his probe.

Fetish detective chick is starting to like the fsct that Farrel is saving her and not tryin to bang her, might be something there.

Vince said hes gana start knocking walls down, his character doesnt seem like the joking kind.

At this point it could be anyone whose pullin tbe strings, hell it could be some weird sex club king pin that clark had a beef with.

[Robinson]

Agreed, but even season 1 had good fight/altercation scenes like the last few episodes that put McConaughey in the hospital.

True enough.

[tremiles]

WOW.

Sent from my D5503 using Tapatalk

[BaiHu]

That escalated quickly...

[Sasage]

Guess they don't have patrol rifles.

[BaiHu]

Guess they don't have patrol rifles.
Exactly. Hollywood is on a budget. Just shotguns and no shells so those guys had to be killed off first.

[NEPAKevin]

Is it wrong that I really wanted to see Bezzerides put her ankle knife to good use. Blade Tease.

[farscott]

I am kinda lost. Ani is suspended, but she can stay on the Caspere case. And her suspension has to do with what a fellow officer says she likes to do in the bedroom. And this takes place in CA. Umm, what?? Either suspended or not? And in CA I expect her eclectic tastes in the bedroom would score her a promotion, not a suspension. If she is going to be suspended, suspend her for the leadership in two botched raids (sister's gig and last night's debacle).

As for Paul, that story line is a one cliche after another. Finding out ex-gf is pregnant after waking up in the wrong bed is like something from a soap. Is this TD or Desperate Housewives?

And Vince Vaughn is not convincing me of anything right now.

[helothar]

anyone else disappointed with her grip (or lack thereof) on her sig?

[breakingtime91]

ya she didn't do a very good job. Glad they added the war veteran who can't get his life together. always classy.


All I wanted them to do was suppress and move, but none of them would listen to me :confused:

[BaiHu]

anyone else disappointed with her grip (or lack thereof) on her sig?


ya she didn't do a very good job. Glad they added the war veteran who can't get his life together. always classy.


All I wanted them to do was suppress and move, but none of them would listen to me :confused:
I think I've done well when my fiancé starts mocking the whole gun handling scene and wondering why they did what they did with the hardware they didn't have. Hollywood.

[Gadfly]

I kept waiting for CHiP guy to drop to the ground and shoot bad cholo guy from underneath the wrecked bus. Heck, anybody could have proned out and shot from under the vehicles at those nice fat unprotected ankles and calves....

I actually thought it was a nice touch when that the female ran out of ammo, and checked her downed comrade for more ammo to run his pistol.

And having done that same warrant type thing hundreds of times myself, why did they do a walk up the street? That is what vans are for, or cram 4 to a car and roll straight to the door. You don't walk slowly down the street so everyone has a chance to bail and toilets full of dope get flushed.

If we go "real world" from here, you will see all three protagonist on desk duty pending grand jury and IA, and they will be doing nothing but typing statements and giving depositions for the next few weeks...

[LSP972]

Damn… I should KNOW better than to read this thread before watching the latest episode. Wife and I were busy last night, plan to watch it tonight. Now, I'm gonna be expecting epic suck.

And my BS meter began twitching as soon as I realized Farrell was toting a P-35; hammer down; in a hardware store holster…

This season better firm up pretty quick, in regards to plot and story line. Gratuitous shootings/gunfights ain't gonna keep my interest…

.

[LSP972]

If we go "real world" from here, you will see all three protagonist on desk duty pending grand jury and IA, and they will be doing nothing but typing statements and giving depositions for the next few weeks...

Don't hold your breath. The producers are probably the sons of the same guys who produced CHIPs; only on TV can you work a 50-car pile-up and never do a moment's paperwork…;)

.

[BaiHu]

Damn… I should KNOW better than to read this thread before watching the latest episode. Wife and I were busy last night, plan to watch it tonight. Now, I'm gonna be expecting epic suck.

And my BS meter began twitching as soon as I realized Farrell was toting a P-35; hammer down; in a hardware store holster…

This season better firm up pretty quick, in regards to plot and story line. Gratuitous shootings/gunfights ain't gonna keep my interest…

.
Always watch first.

Don't hold your breath. The producers are probably the sons of the same guys who produced CHIPs; only on TV can you work a 50-car pile-up and never do a moment's paperwork…;)

.
[emoji106]

[ubervic]

This show is new to me, and I've seen only Episode 1 of Season 2. It's too soon for me to say I love it, but I do like it.

Vince's performance in the single episode that I saw stunk---he can yell and scream as well as anyone, but his portrayal of quiet anguish/torment is laughable, which is inexcusable when NOT going for laughs.

[Sasage]

This show is new to me, and I've seen only Episode 1 of Season 2. It's too soon for me to say I love it, but I do like it.

Vince's performance in the single episode that I saw stunk---he can yell and scream as well as anyone, but his portrayal of quiet anguish/torment is laughable, which is inexcusable when NOT going for laughs.
Do yourself a favor and watch season 1

[JSGlock34]

I don't know...the protagonists are carrying a P35, S&W 4006 and a SIG P226? Someone on the show must be reading the site to assemble that mix...

3614
3615
http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/8/85/TrueDetective-S02E04-S%26W-1.jpg/800px-TrueDetective-S02E04-S%26W-1.jpg

[Dropkick]

I love how she aims!

[BaiHu]

I love how she aims!
Point shooting extraordinaire, bro. No sights needed.

[JSGlock34]

You mean this isn't an approved technique?

3616

[BaiHu]

You mean this isn't an approved technique?

3616
Israel combat corner technique. I can do this all day.

[breakingtime91]

Well duh, you can't aim when there are innocents around

[farscott]

Is the S&W 4006TSW still the issue handgun for the CHP? I think it still is, so they got that part (mostly) right as Paul's pistol appears to be an older (not TSW) 4006.

Ms. McAdams' form is a bit, ahh, untutored. During half the shots, her pistol was aimed well below where the bullets were shown to be impacting. She really breaks her wrist quite a bit. It was noticeable enough to be distracting.

[Dropkick]

Well duh, you can't aim when there are innocents around

During half the shots, her pistol was aimed well below where the bullets were shown to be impacting.

Her RAWR-MINDSET™ corrected the bullets' trajectory mid-flight. Not to be confused with assassin Angelina Jolie bullet curving.

[LSP972]

I don't know...the protagonists are carrying a P35, S&W 4006 and a SIG P226? Someone on the show must be reading the site to assemble that mix...

]

Well, AFAIK Kalifornia Highway Patrol is still issuing (and mandating use of) their beloved 4006 3rdGen pistols; so somebody is trying to be accurate.

As for KnifeGirl and her Sig... she starts out with good form, and then degenerates into a low grip as the fight progresses; kind of, exactly, like we have seen in extended-shooting training scenarios as the stress ramps up.

I watched it a couple of times, and aside from a few missed "tactical" cues- like taking Chui out at the ankles, and has been mentioned- I thought it was a pretty well-done rendition of a goat-fuck street gunfight. I remember thinking after the first viewing... "Holy cow, I would have to have to process THAT scene!"

And it was as good of an example for advocating long guns (rifles) for ALL cops as the North Hollywood fiasco... which is one of the very few big fights, initiated by patrol cops, where the ninjas actually got there in time to make a difference.

We had one similar down here a couple of years ago, where two deputies were killed. I didn't work the scene, but it took us a week just to process the brass.

.

[BaiHu]

Well, AFAIK Kalifornia Highway Patrol is still issuing (and mandating use of) their beloved 4006 3rdGen pistols; so somebody is trying to be accurate.

As for KnifeGirl and her Sig... she starts out with good form, and then degenerates into a low grip as the fight progresses; kind of, exactly, like we have seen in extended-shooting training scenarios as the stress ramps up.

I watched it a couple of times, and aside from a few missed "tactical" cues- like taking Chui out at the ankles, and has been mentioned- I thought it was a pretty well-done rendition of a goat-fuck street gunfight. I remember thinking after the first viewing... "Holy cow, I would have to have to process THAT scene!"

And it was as good of an example for advocating long guns (rifles) for ALL cops as the North Hollywood fiasco... which is one of the very few big fights, initiated by patrol cops, where the ninjas actually got there in time to make a difference.

We had one similar down here a couple of years ago, where two deputies were killed. I didn't work the scene, but it took us a week just to process the brass.

.
So LSP972, do you find the scene to be realistic on purpose, have you just been around the block long enough to see this happen with any multilevel experienced crew or a little of both?

When I saw that scene I couldn't believe 3 things immediately and this will show my intelligence, naiveté or both:

She draws a block or two before they get there.

They conspicuously walk all the way there in the first place. I could understand walking if they were trying to be inconspicuous and 'sneak up'. Either they epically failed or were super misinformed.

Zero long guns unless you count the 1 or 2 shotguns that went down early.

[BaiHu]

Interesting nugget on why VV sucks in TD: http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/06/vince-vaughn-is-the-worst-part-of-true-detective-season-2

[Gadfly]

So LSP972, do you find the scene to be realistic on purpose, have you just been around the block long enough to see this happen with any multilevel experienced crew or a little of both?

When I saw that scene I couldn't believe 3 things immediately and this will show my intelligence, naiveté or both:

She draws a block or two before they get there.

They conspicuously walk all the way there in the first place. I could understand walking if they were trying to be inconspicuous and 'sneak up'. Either they epically failed or were super misinformed.

Zero long guns unless you count the 1 or 2 shotguns that went down early.

I can say a scene that size, with that many bodies, and multiple dead officers would probably be a week to clear. You could spend a day just dealing with the bus and people inside of it. Break it down into a different scene for each location (front of the business/initial shoot out, secondary shootout in foot chase, vehicle shootout, vehicle crash site/shoot out, and top floor of building that exploded) You are going to spend a lot of time, measuring, drawing, cataloging, photographing, videoing, and collecting at each spot.

Drawing your gun during the walk up to an arrest? Not uncommon at all.

Walking from a couple blocks out? No way. When I mentioned it seemed strange, my wife said "maybe there is no parking". Uhhhh, cops serving a warrant don't care about no parking signs. They would have rolled right up to the door area. Marked units let people know it is not some fake cops. And car radios have stronger signal than hand held radios, which is important in tall buildings when a repeater may be far off. If they did any walk up, they may have had un marked UC officers walk around back to cover the rear. Then when the cars roll up in front, the rear officers peel off the baggy outer shirts to reveal clearly marked police vests, and they contain runners from the back of the building.

Zero long guns? Plausible, if they are going to arrest one guy and you have 10 people with you. When you bring a long gun, you are married to it. So if you have to run, chase, jump fences, wrestle folks into cuffs... you can't just ground the long gun, it has to stay strapped to your body. It can be a pain in the ass boat anchor. That said, if the exact same circumstance were given to us to run a warrant, we usually want one long gun in the front, one in the back as a minimum. Everyone else can go hands on and tackle/chase as needed.

Just my humble thoughts.

Still enjoying the show, and McAdams looks good enough to forgive her poor grip technique.

[LSP972]

So LSP972, do you find the scene to be realistic on purpose, have you just been around the block long enough to see this happen with any multilevel experienced crew or a little of both?

.

Both.

Keep in mind, however, that I'm referring to the actual shooting part. Their approach was about as retarded as one can get; you just do don't that sort of nonsense against alert bad-asses.

As for the lack of long guns... well, you cannot always be too critical of that. Many times, there are other factors in play that aren't immediately apparent... such as a brain-dead supervisor who doesn't want "his" raid team to look too aggressive, or command influence of the same variety even farther up the food chain. I have seen examples of both.

Then you have the "BPI/Superman" mind-set (BPI= Bullet Proof and Invisible) prevalent amongst some plain clothes types- primarily narcs- that gets such types into all sorts of binds... "We doan need no steenkin' shoulder guns!" Granted, you don't see much, if any, of that any more. But back in the day, it was a real issue for some folks. See FBI, Miami, 1986.

But you can do everything right and still get your ass handed to you. A sad example is the U.S. Marshal who was killed here a few months back.

I hope I didn't give the impression that I was looking at this show as a valuable tool; its television, and thus automatically suspect. I was just musing aloud that the gunfight scene was, IMO, a pretty realistic depiction of an event like that, as I understand them.

.

[BaiHu]

I can say a scene that size, with that many bodies, and multiple dead officers would probably be a week to clear. You could spend a day just dealing with the bus and people inside of it. Break it down into a different scene for each location (front of the business/initial shoot out, secondary shootout in foot chase, vehicle shootout, vehicle crash site/shoot out, and top floor of building that exploded) You are going to spend a lot of time, measuring, drawing, cataloging, photographing, videoing, and collecting at each spot.

Drawing your gun during the walk up to an arrest? Not uncommon at all.

Walking from a couple blocks out? No way. When I mentioned it seemed strange, my wife said "maybe there is no parking". Uhhhh, cops serving a warrant don't care about no parking signs. They would have rolled right up to the door area. Marked units let people know it is not some fake cops. And car radios have stronger signal than hand held radios, which is important in tall buildings when a repeater may be far off. If they did any walk up, they may have had un marked UC officers walk around back to cover the rear. Then when the cars roll up in front, the rear officers peel off the baggy outer shirts to reveal clearly marked police vests, and they contain runners from the back of the building.

Zero long guns? Plausible, if they are going to arrest one guy and you have 10 people with you. When you bring a long gun, you are married to it. So if you have to run, chase, jump fences, wrestle folks into cuffs... you can't just ground the long gun, it has to stay strapped to your body. It can be a pain in the ass boat anchor. That said, if the exact same circumstance were given to us to run a warrant, we usually want one long gun in the front, one in the back as a minimum. Everyone else can go hands on and tackle/chase as needed.

Just my humble thoughts.

Still enjoying the show, and McAdams looks good enough to forgive her poor grip technique.
Understood and I was criticizing the distance from the scene she drew not the fact that she at all.

Both.

Keep in mind, however, that I'm referring to the actual shooting part. Their approach was about as retarded as one can get; you just do don't that sort of nonsense against alert bad-asses.

As for the lack of long guns... well, you cannot always be too critical of that. Many times, there are other factors in play that aren't immediately apparent... such as a brain-dead supervisor who doesn't want "his" raid team to look too aggressive, or command influence of the same variety even farther up the food chain. I have seen examples of both.

Then you have the "BPI/Superman" mind-set (BPI= Bullet Proof and Invisible) prevalent amongst some plain clothes types- primarily narcs- that gets such types into all sorts of binds... "We doan need no steenkin' shoulder guns!" Granted, you don't see much, if any, of that any more. But back in the day, it was a real issue for some folks. See FBI, Miami, 1986.

But you can do everything right and still get your ass handed to you. A sad example is the U.S. Marshal who was killed here a few months back.

I hope I didn't give the impression that I was looking at this show as a valuable tool; its television, and thus automatically suspect. I was just musing aloud that the gunfight scene was, IMO, a pretty realistic depiction of an event like that, as I understand them.

.
Thanks for the clarification. I think it's valuable having guys like you bridge the gap between my hatred for most Hollywood gun play and the reality that Hollywood type people are in positions of power to influence how policing happens.

I like that you guys take the time to help people like me understand.

Thanks.

[Gadfly]

Side note on Long guns use, it varies GREATLY by department, and even by individual groups in a department.

Back when we were still the INS, we had no issued long guns. We had "pool" guns. My office had 25 Remington 870 14" in the armory.

If you wanted one, you wrote a justification memo to your Group Supervisor, he initialed it and forwarded it to the "Daddy" (Deputy Assistant Director -Investigations) and the Daddy signed it. You took the memo to a firearms guy, and he pulled an 870 for you. BUT, the memo was good for that specific day/mission. So after the opp, you had to have the gun back in the vault by end of shift, no exceptions.

So with that much BS (at least an hour to get one pulled), no one ever signed them out. Post 9/11 policy was re written and we are assigned take home long guns and the approval memo is renewed annually, not daily.

[BaiHu]

Side note on Long guns use, it varies GREATLY by department, and even by individual groups in a department.

Back when we were still the INS, we had no issued long guns. We had "pool" guns. My office had 25 Remington 870 14" in the armory.

If you wanted one, you wrote a justification memo to your Group Supervisor, he initialed it and forwarded it to the "Daddy" (Deputy Assistant Director -Investigations) and the Daddy signed it. You took the memo to a firearms guy, and he pulled an 870 for you. BUT, the memo was good for that specific day/mission. So after the opp, you had to have the gun back in the vault by end of shift, no exceptions.

So with that much BS (at least an hour to get one pulled), no one ever signed them out. Post 9/11 policy was re written and we are assigned take home long guns and the approval memo is renewed annually, not daily.
Yay, progress[emoji122]

[voodoo_man]

Zero long guns? Plausible, if they are going to arrest one guy and you have 10 people with you. When you bring a long gun, you are married to it. So if you have to run, chase, jump fences, wrestle folks into cuffs... you can't just ground the long gun, it has to stay strapped to your body. It can be a pain in the ass boat anchor. That said, if the exact same circumstance were given to us to run a warrant, we usually want one long gun in the front, one in the back as a minimum. Everyone else can go hands on and tackle/chase as needed.



Funny you say this...

My PD gives us pool rifles that suck, like a lot of suck.

The slings suck, the rifles they suck, did I mention that?

One of our guys deploy's one during a barricade with shots fired inside, dude takes off out the back. He follows, I'm not too far, pistol only.

The sling is like an old Vietnam era style one, so you can't sling it across yourself.

As he's running I can hear him yell "fuck this!" and dumps the mag, then drops the rifle, keeps running.

I pick it up, mag and rifle, continue after him, figure might as well since the dude is still armed with who knows what.

Dude ends up getting hit by a car trying to cross a side street, should always look both ways before crossing...

Anyway, point is, when I gave him the rifle back he was surprised, he didn't want anything to do with it - I asked him, rhetorically, why he thought I didn't have one with me.


That scene was all sorts of fucked up, the moment they started walking across the street, in a group like that, I knew at least one was getting shot in the face.

Two things I did like - fact she ran out of bullets, tactical patience is a bitch, and the press check closet boy did.

[jnc36rcpd]

I have frequently used clips from movies and television in training. The footage is often clearer in illustrating a point than what you might get looking at dash, body, cell-phone, and security video. When you criticize someone, you're criticizing Colin Farrell's character rather than some actual cop who may or may not have screwed up. We've all done things that would look stupid when viewed six months later at a seminar eight states away. I am in no way critical of using actual footage and usually do so myself, but movies have value in illustrating points and promoting discussion. Plus, Rachel McAdams looks so much better than most of us. This video actually has some learning points.

During the briefing at the station, Ani says that the state tactical team would not be available until that afternoon. When staging for the hit, a city detective suggests snagging the target when he exits. Ani responds that the bosses want him taken now. Twelve minutes later (TV time), would Ani reconsider either of those decisions.
To her credit, however, when a supervisor questions Ani's decision to use the number of patrol and detectives to serve the warrant, Ani responds "Better to be safe than something else". I suspect I will lose that line in the future.

During the gunfight, Ani fires to lockback. To her credit, she attempts a battlefield pick-up of a fallen officer's pistol (also in lockback and then his magazines When she fails, she draws one of her knives before the CHP officer kills the suspect approaching her. As I mentioned in roll call yesterday, better to have more ammunition, a secondary handgun, or a long gun than to have to draw a karambit.. Better yet, all three.

No replacement for real video, but this stuff can be useful in training.

[BaiHu]

Thanks jnc. More good feedback. I haven't watched it a second time. Maybe I'll watch it again today.

[Hatchetman]

Just watched Sunday's episode and find myself growing more intrigued. First installments gave us the backstory on the disparate crime threads that are out there, while also making sure we understand the individual dynamics of the Odd Squad. Now that they have that well established, I suspect the rest of the season is going to be devoted to seeing how these various set up to fail detectives create synergies that take down whoever is glomming on to the cash, diamonds, girls, et al.

[voodoo_man]

Obviously its not over, obviously its bigger than they thought.

One thing that bugs me, is the "missing girl" the one who pawned the watch or the baby momma of the gay dude.

[LittleLebowski]

Last episode sucked out loud. I may not make it through this season.

[voodoo_man]

Last episode sucked out loud. I may not make it through this season.

Everyone's a critic.

[Erik]

I actually liked it. The series is sort of slowly (and I do mean slooowwwllllyyy) hooking me. I also really like it visually. The cinematography is awesome.

[SouthNarc]

I think's it's pretty good Cali noir in a Chinatown kinda' way.

[Hatchetman]

I'm also digging the ambiguity, which seems to be a common element in a lot of the fiction I enjoy. I hate dramas that tie things up into neat packages and assume the viewer is some sort of idiot that needs a trail of golfball sized bread crumbs lest they get lost and change the channel to some pat reality TV passion play. I can't help but suspect that the protagonists' many flaws and foibles are gonna be the keys to overcoming the currently unknown antagonists. The chemistry isn't all that far removed from that found in LA Confidential.

[OnionsAndDragons]

I think's it's pretty good Cali noir in a Chinatown kinda' way.

I rewatched Chinatown last week, and it have to agree. Not the same caliber, but definitely in the same wheelhouse.

The show definitely changed pace abruptly, but I kinda liked it.

Did anyone else notice that the intro music changed this last episode?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[BaiHu]

....Did anyone else notice that the intro music changed this last episode?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thanks for saying something. I DVRd it and fast forwarded past it, because it sucked donkey bleep. I'll go back tonight and see.

[OnionsAndDragons]

Yeah. I still can't decide if I hate the song or just want to, but grudgingly might like it.

It's the same song/artist, but a different or more complete version of it.

I'm hoping that the technique of changing the intro to signify a shift in the show continues. I think it is a nice touch that is really underutilized in TV presentation.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Trooper224]

I'm making a conscious effort not to compare it to season one, as I think anything else will come off as first place loser in that contest. It's an entirely different show this season which isn't bad for an anthology series. I don't get too wrapped up in the firearms handling and tactics in Hollywood products. It's entertainment not a training film. While it doesn't compare with season one it isn't bad, better than most of the cop shows on the boob tube. Besides, when I saw Rachel McAdams in a pair of panties in the opening shot I was hooked. Still waiting for a repeat. :)

[OnionsAndDragons]

/Agree

The first season was incredible. I have no illusions of this one comparing favorably there. It isn't a Deadwood or the Wire, but it is still way better than most of the stuff out there right now.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[okie john]

I rewatched Chinatown last week, and it have to agree. Not the same caliber, but definitely in the same wheelhouse.

The show definitely changed pace abruptly, but I kinda liked it.

Did anyone else notice that the intro music changed this last episode?

Definitely noticed the music change. Now we just need to see a knife go up somebody's nose and we'll have a match on the Chinatown DNA.


Okie John

[Hambo]

Finally got around to watching the shootout and it looked Hollywood to me, with a couple of good points.

-CHPdude must be a PF member because he did a slow reholster at the end of gunfight.

-If there's anything to translate to real life it's to remember to look up. On approach to any building every member of our team had a cover sector, including upper floor windows. However, I'm sure our detectives never considered death from above when they served warrants, so that part is probably realistic.

-Watching one time I counted at least six dead cops, one cop shot an unarmed civilian, and the final "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" hostage standoff with Velcoro and CHPdude ended with a dead hostage. The only way the shootout is realistic is if the rest of the series is dedicated to everyone and every agency involved having a deep rectal probing from every local, state and federal agency.

-Velcoro and CHPdude attack the building after a bunch of cops are schwacked. Yeah, right. That's when they call SWAT, who they should have had serve the warrant in the first place.

-After Velcoro/CHPdude lose the hostage and blast the BG, everybody relaxes as the cavalry rolls in, apparently having all be on patrol equidistant from the fight. Just watch the news about any mass shooting and you'll see how unrealistic this is. Four hundred cops cover the area, canines get to work, and eventually chiefs arrive and call press conferences.

[LSP972]

Dude, you need to relax. Its television.

When I said realistic, I meant the shooting and "tactics" and general madness in such an incident… while the bullets are flying. You see the newbies at near-panic, you see the combat vet stopping- behind good cover- to take a deep breath and get his head into the game, you see things start to unravel as the incident progresses and the body count rises.

Yes, their approach and the aftermath were not realistic in any form. But the shoot-out itself? Not too shabby, IMO.

.

[Dagga Boy]

Ditto on "its TV". Most of Hollywood is totally disinterested in doing things right and doing what they think looks good. No different in the firearms media. I have done lots of things in photo shoots that are not "right" for actual use, but "right" for the photograph as far as lighting, angles, and emphasis.
Hey, they did get the drunks part right, but otherwise, this is about as close to SoCal LE as season one was to how LSP "really" is. They also did sort of a combo on his of several actual places in SoCal. It is sort of a cross with both Vernon and Bell.
Overall, it is different from season one, but is keeping my attention.

[Hambo]

Dude, you need to relax.


People tell me that.

Anyway, it's TV and I know it, which is the problem. I'm not saying season one was more accurate, but the characters drew me in and I didn't care or notice. Suspension of disbelief it's called. I just can't get there this season. And a weakass shootout scene isn't helping me a f'n bit...wait, breathe, count to ten...ok, calmness and chillness ;)

[LSP972]

this is about as close to SoCal LE as season one was to how LSP "really" is.

No idea about SoCal LE, but the depiction of LSP investigations/procedures/sections in Season One was certainly not spot-on. Didn't keep me from enjoying the story.

Ditto this year… I rather doubt some of the over-the-top antics of the first few episodes would have flown… but although it got off to a slow start, this season has kept my attention.

.

[Dagga Boy]

No idea about SoCal LE, but the depiction of LSP investigations/procedures/sections in Season One was certainly not spot-on. Didn't keep me from enjoying the story.

Ditto this year… I rather doubt some of the over-the-top antics of the first few episodes would have flown… but although it got off to a slow start, this season has kept my attention.

.

That was my point. I didn't look at season one as an LSP documentary. Like season two......the characters are made up of tidbits of hundreds of cops. It gives it an air of some reality, but folks like Hollywood characters in real life tend to end up fired or in jail at some point.

[LSP972]

... folks like Hollywood characters in real life tend to end up fired or in jail at some point.

Indeed.

.

[Hatchetman]

"There's one for the bucket list: a Mexican standoff with real Mexicans."

So let's just say that my misspent youth left me in a position to judge these things. I wish Hollywood was capable of making a realistic hallucinogen use scene. Their writers certainly ought to have enough experience in these matters to do so without depending on Reefer Madness tropes and the like.

[Gadfly]

I am enjoying the show.

But cops breaking and entering to steal evidence would basically nullify any case they may of had... And even if she claims self defense, McAdams fleeing the scene and not reporting her use of force to her supervisor means she is at the very least fired. And who does UC without eyes on cover or comms?

Still enjoying the show, and think Vince Vaughn is doing a good job as a Gangster. Better than I expected. But the "police procedure" is FAR from accurate. But it is entertaining.

[BaiHu]

Definitely thought last night was entertaining. Given the show's track record, I'm guessing the dirt taken during a B&E will be thrown out, but used for good....hopefully...the writers did knock McAdams and Farrell down after the botched raid.

[LittleLebowski]

"There's one for the bucket list: a Mexican standoff with real Mexicans."


All of the time for me, my wife is Hispanic :D

[voodoo_man]

I am enjoying the show.

But cops breaking and entering to steal evidence would basically nullify any case they may of had... And even if she claims self defense, McAdams fleeing the scene and not reporting her use of force to her supervisor means she is at the very least fired. And who does UC without eyes on cover or comms?

Still enjoying the show, and think Vince Vaughn is doing a good job as a Gangster. Better than I expected. But the "police procedure" is FAR from accurate. But it is entertaining.

They justify all that by being on "vacation" or some-such. Only two of them are still on the job, so they have to follow policy regardless of circumstance, unless there is some sort of sanctioning going on by that states attorney woman who put this whole thing together.

Still don't know how they get around evidence discovery rules and her drug use...

[voodoo_man]

BTW check out the knife scenes I put together...I knew I have seen them before...

http://www.vdmsr.com/2015/07/true-detective-knife-template-scenes.html

[Wondering Beard]

BTW check out the knife scenes I put together...I knew I have seen them before...

http://www.vdmsr.com/2015/07/true-detective-knife-template-scenes.html

Not much use of the live hand and I sure hope she's using a trainer on that wooden dummy (looks like a Benchmade Presidio)


I'm surprised no one yet has mentioned the presence of 80s teen heart throb Rick Springfield on the show.

Personally, this season is very much straight of a James Elroy novel.

[voodoo_man]

Not much use of the live hand and I sure hope she's using a trainer on that wooden dummy (looks like a Benchmade Presidio)


I'm surprised no one yet has mentioned the presence of 80s teen heart throb Rick Springfield on the show.

Personally, this season is very much straight of a James Elroy novel.

Those looked like live blades to me, in the episode they were sticking to the wooden man so, that's that.

[Wondering Beard]

Those looked like live blades to me, in the episode they were sticking to the wooden man so, that's that.

They did to me too ...ah well.

[voodoo_man]

They did to me too ...ah well.

it is hollywood, so you gata give them a little bit of room....not really, but you know what I mean.

[Wondering Beard]

it is hollywood, so you gata give them a little bit of room....not really, but you know what I mean.

I do

Plus I imagine the gains of a "cool scene" are higher than the couple hundred bucks for the ruined Benchmade.

[voodoo_man]

I do

Plus I imagine the gains of a "cool scene" are higher than the couple hundred bucks for the ruined Benchmade.

Hollywood doesnt pay for anything. The companies donate their stuff and pay them to show it on film.

[Dropkick]

Flipping between all the story lines was bit annoying, but it built up suspense in every one at the same time.

[voodoo_man]

Well, I can say that the last episode is going to be pretty serious.

I like the killing of main characters, shame it was in such a chickenshit way, but ultimately he should have cleared that door.

[MRW]

Personally, this season is very much straight of a James Elroy novel.

Parts of it feel like it is right out of the "Big Nowhere" except for being set 60 years apart.

Also, when they grabbed the girl from the party felt like a scene from Crumley's "The Last Good Kiss". The Velcoro character seems a lot like a Crumley character too but maybe that is his preference for P-35's.

[Eli]

..... but ultimately he should have cleared that door.


^^^
That.


And after he did so well in the low-light scene previously.

[Gadfly]

If I recall correctly, the CHiP was warned at the beginning of the encounter that he had "eyes on him right now", meaning someone was watching the outside of the building. But I can only assume if he saw 4 downstairs and he smoked 4 downstairs he thought he was home free...

Was glad to see Frank (Vaughn) go old school and start shooting some folks that need shooting. I also liked his "burn it all down" attitude. I expect from his wish list of guns he was shopping for, we are going to see some carnage in the last episode.

[voodoo_man]

^^^
That.


And after he did so well in the low-light scene previously.

I called it as soon as he went through the door and didnt clear it. He did well, thats true, but in his case, you cant stop being vigilant.

[breakingtime91]

I called it as soon as he went through the door and didnt clear it. He did well, thats true, but in his case, you cant stop being vigilant.

same here. I think I may of actually yelled. I liked that he went out talking shit and low crawling to his weapon. Never stop fighting.

[RoyGBiv]

Just finished catching up on 4 through 7.
Been avoiding this thread for fear of spoilers.

All that crap about it starting off a little boring this season?

They made up for it.

[jetfire]

I can't be the only one who's noticed how many similarities this season's plot has to LA Confidential.

[Wondering Beard]

I can't be the only one who's noticed how many similarities this season's plot has to LA Confidential.

You're not.

A few of us have been enjoying James Elroy comparisons

[NEPAKevin]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-LEx68m2-Agc/VcjTyOV0IBI/AAAAAAAAAg8/aDeRqpQZNvM/w735-h640-no/true-detective-season-3-mcconaughey-and-harrelson-return-to-figure-out-what-happened-to-season-2.jpg

[Gadfly]

I enjoyed season 2 overall. It was a complete 180 from season one, so there is really no way to compare the two. Season two started off slower and it had far more layers and sub plots to keep up with. I liked it more as it went on.

I think we could have done without 4 separate lead characters. I found them all interesting, but that was a lot of character backstory to cram in with all the actual plot. Who knew Vince Vaughn could play drama and tough guy. I was pleasantly surprised by him.

Was sad to see so many good characters die in the end. Good guys don't always win. Bad guys don't always get their comeuppance. Sort of like Game of Thrones.

I will end up re watching it and probably pick up on more details than I did the first time around...

[Sasage]

I gave up after 4 or 5 but I might try it again and pay closer attention.

[RoyGBiv]

Taylor Kitsch should have been the hero. That he wasn't is a good thing.
I really liked the way Vaughn died. Excellent storytelling.
Found myself wanting Colin to live, I never root for corrupt TV cops.
Disappointed with the way the women were unresolved.

All in all, nothing like season 1 but still excellent (although slow through the first 2.5 episodes)

YMMV.

[Serpico1985]

Seriously, couldn't they have let ferrel upload his dying message to his kid? I mean come on. That's just F'd up. Like rubbing salt in a wound.

[SJC3081]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-LEx68m2-Agc/VcjTyOV0IBI/AAAAAAAAAg8/aDeRqpQZNvM/w735-h640-no/true-detective-season-3-mcconaughey-and-harrelson-return-to-figure-out-what-happened-to-season-2.jpg

Thank you

[johncorey]

I've withheld my 2 cents on this now, but after completing season 2, yes, it was unsat on its own, let alone when compared to season 1. There were so many plot holes which did not add up, so many character contradictions which did not make any sense and so many plain useless scenes which did not help. It's hard for me to believe that the same writing/production team was at the helm on this one. The ENTIRE season was being billed as murder/conspiracy/general shadiness in connection with the secret occult history of the California highway/road system. Pretty sure they forgot about that aspect of the show, regardless of how many little clues where dropped here and there. What set TD apart from every other cop/crime show out there for me, was in fact the connection to the occult. Makes for a nice change in pace when executed properly, such as in season 1.

My bottom line is that if this had been season 1, there would not have been a season 2.

[voodoo_man]

The moment Colin's character took that exit I knew he was dead, I was yelling at the TV calling him a fucking idiot.

Vaughn fucked up trusting those two dirtbags and not having security with him, his death is cliche since he died because of the one thing he could live without - money.

Also, who drives into the forest knowing your going to be in a shootout while trying to lose a truck full of armed mofo's? Seriously?

[Erik]

The moment Colin's character took that exit I knew he was dead, I was yelling at the TV calling him a fucking idiot.

Vaughn fucked up trusting those two dirtbags and not having security with him, his death is cliche since he died because of the one thing he could live without - money.

Also, who drives into the forest knowing your going to be in a shootout while trying to lose a truck full of armed mofo's? Seriously?

All of this plus why the hell not lose the transponder? I actually paused it and walked away when he took the exit. I hate when the characters I'm invested in get killed off unnecessarily. Real life sucks enough. Who needs fake life to suck too? I like a happy ending. I'm kind of a wuss that way.

[Hatchetman]

All of this plus why the hell not lose the transponder? I actually paused it and walked away when he took the exit. I hate when the characters I'm invested in get killed off unnecessarily. Real life sucks enough. Who needs fake life to suck too? I like a happy ending. I'm kind of a wuss that way.

My take is that he was doing a red herring thing to keep those dudes far from Ani. Agree that in a muscle car v. truck chase heading to an off road destination doesn't favor the muscle car. But then hey, we wouldn't have had the scene framed by redwoods, which is indeed my major source of annoyance for the season: the writers always defaulted to some sort of existential visual/character crutch rather than first telling a coherent story and then layering in all the atmosphere on top of that coherent framework.

[voodoo_man]

He had a shotgun in the car.

Why wouldn't he just blast the thing and take his chances running.

[NEPAKevin]

The most unrealistic thing to me was the final scene where it appears to me that the two girls are trying to go incognito. Now, I do not know much about South American culture or ladies fashions, but can wearing a large floppy hat really detract attention from 700 lumen cleavage?