Slug or Buckshot for Home Defense?

[veteran-USMC]

Howdy! Recently I bought a 12 Gauge sem-auto shotgun for fun at the range & home defense. Which 12 gauge ammo would stop a lethal charge the best--a slug or buckshot? Could you recommend a brand of either to be used inside a home for defense? Thank-you for your time & attention to my questions. Semper Fi Till the Day I Die!

[ssb]

I ultimately went with #1 buckshot. However, when I was doing my research I noticed that a 12GA Foster slug has a tendency to break into 3-4 major chunks once in jell-o. Several examples stayed well within 18".

[RoyGBiv]

If you can find it...

http://cdn3.volusion.com/cpetg.wduhw/v/vspfiles/photos/LE132-1B(50)-2.jpg

I use the "00". The #1 is Unobtanium.

Flitecontrol wad http://texaschlforum.com/images/smilies/thumbsup2.gif

[Cookie Monster]

I use low recoil OO buck.

If an engine block enters my home to hurt my family, then I look for some slugs.

Cookie Monster

[Crusader8207]

#1 Buck also. I recently scored 75 rounds from an online retailer.

[Dropkick]

If an engine block enters my home to hurt my family, then I look for some slugs.
Nice... heheh. :D Attack of the killer engine blocks!

[DocGKR]

This:

http://cdn3.volusion.com/cpetg.wduhw/v/vspfiles/photos/LE132-1B(50)-2.jpg

[LSP972]

I'll agrre on the brand, due to the FliteControl wad/etc.

But why #1 over 00?

.

[SLG]

More crush (I think 35% more). Maybe other reasons too, I'm not Doc and don't even know if I'm remembering the 35% correctly, so don't take that as gospel.

[Dave J]

I'd like to find a few bricks of FC #1, but in the meantime I sleep pretty well with #00 at the ready.

[Cookie Monster]

I'd grab a case of #1 if I could find it. At a reasonable price. Only because Doc says though, never used it.

Cookie Monster

[jlw]

If you can find it...

http://cdn3.volusion.com/cpetg.wduhw/v/vspfiles/photos/LE132-1B(50)-2.jpg

I use the "00". The #1 is Unobtanium.

Flitecontrol wad http://texaschlforum.com/images/smilies/thumbsup2.gif


I just bought some; so, it is obtainium. ;)

[Beat Trash]

If you can find it...

http://cdn3.volusion.com/cpetg.wduhw/v/vspfiles/photos/LE132-1B(50)-2.jpg

I use the "00". The #1 is Unobtanium.

Flitecontrol wad http://texaschlforum.com/images/smilies/thumbsup2.gif

If you can't find this, the same ammunition with the OO buck loading is also good. We switched to the OO buck Federal flight controlled load as an issued duty round. The range staff conducts a demo shooting the older Winchester reduced recall O loading and one of the flight control loads from Federal. I would never have believed what this could do from a stock 18" 870, had I seen it with my own eyes.

This #1 buck load is kind of like doing a mag dump from an M1 carbine with every pull of that 1 ga trigger. If I were using a 12 ga for home defense, the #1 load would be it. Either way, I'm sold on the flight controlled loads from Federal.

[jlw]

Hornady has a buck shot line that is comparable to Flite Control. One of my guys is running it. I think they call it the Versatile wad or something like that. It is in their Critical Defense and TAP loadings.

[DocGKR]

SLG is correct, #1 buckshot offers approximately 35% more tissue crush than 00 buckshot.

Firing the #1 buckshot in bare gel, all fifteen of the 30 caliber plated pellets penetrate in the 14-18 inch range--this is ideal terminal performance.

Through an automobile windshield at 3 meters, 2 badly deformed pellets were noted at 5", 3 pellets were at 8-9", while the remaining 10 pellets were found at 12.5-15"--not bad for a buckshot load. Keep in mind that slugs are the preferred option when engaging threats inside vehicles.

[jlw]

Click here to order 50 round lots of Flite Control #1. (http://www.kylesgunshop.com/store.php/KylesGunshop/pd4733313/federal_tactical_1_buckshot_2_34_lowrecoil_15_pell et_12_gauge_50_rounds)

[GJM]

I got the Un-obtainium stuff on Gary's recommendation, and leave it in a dedicated buckshot gun, where there is also an AR available. Up here though, where we have bears, or we might need to transition outside, we load with this:

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/FullSizeRender_zpsrog1643d.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/FullSizeRender_zpsrog1643d.jpg.html)

[Lester Polfus]

Ammoseek.com is your friend:

http://ammoseek.com/ammo/12-gauge/Federal-shotgun?ss=1-Buck

Spendy stuff though.

I've found I can duplicate the performance, pattern wise, of the flight control stuff, by using a 20" Ventrib barrel with a full choke, using Remington Express Buckshot. Everybody tells me how I using a screw in choke will get me killed on the street though.

[Jeep]

SLG is correct, #1 buckshot offers approximately 35% more tissue crush than 00 buckshot.

Firing the #1 buckshot in bare gel, all fifteen of the 30 caliber plated pellets penetrate in the 14-18 inch range--this is ideal terminal performance.

Through an automobile windshield at 3 meters, 2 badly deformed pellets were noted at 5", 3 pellets were at 8-9", while the remaining 10 pellets were found at 12.5-15"--not bad for a buckshot load. Keep in mind that slugs are the preferred option when engaging threats inside vehicles.

Doc: I probably should have said this a long time ago, but thank you from being here. It is terrific to have an expert who can answer these kinds of questions with impeccable data. I wouldn't know where else to turn for such high-quality answers.

And since I'm thanking Doc, I should also thank all the other SME's here (official or not) who are willing to share their amazing store of knowledge.

This really is an amazing site.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I use the Hornady mentioned above. The difference in pattern between flight controlled and generic is amazing as I saw in a Givens class.

One thing, given the way people drive in San Antonio, engine blocks enter homes all the time. Near where I live, the street lamps, fences and houses get clobbered on one turn. Just a bit away, a sports car jumped the curb and went up like a volcano. The drive was almost instantly incinerated - my kid saw it and was quite shocked.

So ask what round to stop Christine the killer car around here.

[shootist26]

I use the no1 flight control, but don't have much. I have a good amount of 8-pellet flight control as backup. Patterns a bit better than the 9-pellet load in my gun.

Of all the regular 00 loads, the remington reduced recoil 8 pellet load patterns amazing in my gun. I was taking a shotgun class last year and at 10 yards the instructor asked me if I was rocking flight control loads for the class.

[DocGKR]

Brenneke's are good bear repellent; so much so that I have gotten rid of almost all my .45-70's.

[TGS]

Brenneke's are good bear repellent; so much so that I have gotten rid of almost all my .45-70's.

Wow!

Is that because 12ga is superior to 45-70 or is the 12ga platform simply mo'betta than a 45-70 platform while possessing acceptable terminal results?

[Drang]

Hornady has a buck shot line that is comparable to Flite Control. One of my guys is running it. I think they call it the Versatile wad or something like that. It is in their Critical Defense and TAP loadings.

I believe that is the Versatite Wad (Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Ammunition :: Shotgun :: Buckshot :: 12 ga 00 Buckshot Critical Defense®). Which doesn't seem to be available in #1 Buck.
(Note to Hornaday: Your website is user hostile...)
As opposed to a tightwad, I suppose.

[DocGKR]

Flight Control and Versatite are both licensed versions of the shot spread reducing wad invented by Chris Billings of Choke.

See: Roberts G, Lazzarini D, Pomerleau P. “Wounding Effects of Choke 12 Gauge 00 Buckshot Loads 
Intended for Law Enforcement Duty Using 10% Ordnance Gelatin”. AFTE Journal. 34(3):287-288, 
Summer 2002.

[Eric_L]

http://www.eagleeyeguns.com/category_s/1876.htm

This place has the Federal #1 buckshot with flight control wad.

[RoyGBiv]

http://www.eagleeyeguns.com/category_s/1876.htm

This place has the Federal #1 buckshot with flight control wad.
Kyle's is 33% less cost. Link posted earlier by jlw.
And we like Kyle's, sponsor of Ballistic Radio.

Now I'm stuck for the day with that slogan in my head. "Finneytown" :cool:

[LSP972]

Gary, the AFTE conference is in New Orleans next year. You should come on down.

.

[pablo]

My agency hasn't had an OIS with a shotgun in a few years, most of the hard workers have rifles these days. We issue the 9 pellet Flitecontrol load, LE13200 and it's been an absolute show stopper, in the few OIS that we've had. I'm certainly not qualified to say which is better, but I've only heard of a couple incidents where Federal 00 buckshot came up short and it was more of a buckshot issue in general than something that No.1 buckshot might have done better than 00.

I did see a neat autopsy photo from another agency. An officer dropped a bad guy from about 10 yards with 00 Flitecontrol load, one entry wound and a "Y" shaped bruise around the hole from the wad going into the bad guy. The wad and buckshot can stay together for quite a distance.

My non-scientific testing show that Federal DPRS and Brenneke KO's can do a number on cars. After seeing the Dallas PD HQ shooting and the armored van, I'm going to add some of the Brenneke Max Pentration slugs to my setup. I don't think they will break through level III glass in a single rounds but should be able to reduce the integrity of the glass fairly quickly.

[GJM]

I bet a PF dollar, that even "bad" buckshot outperforms "good pistol cartridges" from the "approved list," when used for self defense at pistol distances.

[Kyle Reese]

I bet a PF dollar, that even "bad" buckshot outperforms "good pistol cartridges" from the "approved list," when used for self defense at pistol distances.

How do you define "pistol distances"?

[GJM]

How do you define "pistol distances"?

Rangemaster data base of shootings.

[41magfan]

When constricted adequately and directed to the right spot, #6 birdshot tends to work on unobstructed targets at the engagement distances most common folks tend to shoot at each other. I don't personally recommend small shot loads but I've stood over enough dead bodies to discount the effectiveness as hearsay.

[LHS]

It's interesting to compare patterns. While the FC and Versatite wads are supposedly the same tech, I have noticed that different shotguns prefer one or the other sometimes. My favorite 870P, for instance, shoots FC considerably tighter than the Hornady stuff (which ends up being about halfway between FC and 'traditional' buckshot). I've seen a VEPR12 show a slight preference for the Hornady over the FC. The moral of the story is, pattern YOUR shotgun with YOUR ammo.

[jlw]

It's interesting to compare patterns. While the FC and Versatite wads are supposedly the same tech, I have noticed that different shotguns prefer one or the other sometimes. My favorite 870P, for instance, shoots FC considerably tighter than the Hornady stuff (which ends up being about halfway between FC and 'traditional' buckshot). I've seen a VEPR12 show a slight preference for the Hornady over the FC. The moral of the story is, pattern YOUR shotgun with YOUR ammo.

"Every shotgun is a snowflake." --Erik Lund

---
Our deputy that is running the Hornady is getting better patterns with it that with FC. My mileage varied from his.

[LHS]

Ain't that the truth...

[Kyle Reese]

Guess I'm very lucky that my 1993 era 18.5" IC Remmy 870 barrel loves Federal Flite Control, and patterned well enough with other loads.

[pablo]

One of the nice things about TAP and Flitecontrol is that it's hard to find a shotgun that doesn't pattern good enough with them, and most of time folks are splitting hairs when it comes to comparing the two.

When we issued Remington Express and Federal Premium (Pre flitecontrol) 00 buckshot, some shotguns would start to get iffy in a hurry and throwing pellets off the target at 10 yards wasn't unheard of.

[Frank R]

For HD shotgun defense, I prefer #4 buckshot.

[witchking777]

I'd be hesitant running low recoil in a semi auto shotgun,be sure it'll cycle properly,for peace of mind just run the full power 00 flitecontrol stuff.

[pablo]

If anyone in the Dallas area is interested I just scored 25 boxes of the Federal No.1 buckshot (LE132 1B) at GT Distributors in Dallas. There were 15 boxes left on the shelf at $2.99 each.

[Mjolnir]

Good thread.

Thanks for the insights.


-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."

[SpyderMan2k4]

If anyone in the Dallas area is interested I just scored 25 boxes of the Federal No.1 buckshot (LE132 1B) at GT Distributors in Dallas. There were 15 boxes left on the shelf at $2.99 each.
That has to be the best price I've heard of... Good find

[SecondsCount]

If anyone in the Dallas area is interested I just scored 25 boxes of the Federal No.1 buckshot (LE132 1B) at GT Distributors in Dallas. There were 15 boxes left on the shelf at $2.99 each.

That is an excellent price.

[pablo]

When it's in stock at the GT store LE132 (1, 00, and 000) and LE133 are always $2.99 a box. Which is amazing that the creme de la creme of buckshot is one of the cheapest offerings around.

[JodyH]

I've had multiple boxes/lots of TAP with poor to atrocious crimps. Even the replacement boxes from Hornady had the same problem.
No problems at all with Federal FC.

[LHS]

Can you order online from GT? Their website doesn't show any ammo sales that I could find.

[dbateman]

00/SG is pretty much all I use, there a few boxes of slugs in my ammo cupboard.
I used to carry slugs in buff country, never needed them but it made me feel better.

That being said, if I feel the need to chuck big bullets I've got better things than shotguns on hand.

[eyemahm]

It's a little more expensive ($4/box), but targetsportsusa.com has the LE132-1B in stock right now.

[L-2]

The buckshot part of the question has now been well-discussed. The slug will come into play with distances where the buckshot spread is deemed too great; or the need to be able to better defeat barriers, e.g., bad guys within vehicles, among other potential barriers. This means both may need to be available. Also one must individually define "home defense". Some folks may live in a 20' x 30' room and others' homes may be a 50 acre estate. Even so, might you need to shoot at someone who might be shooting at you from across a residential street? What's your shot spread and what's beyond the threat for misses and shoot-through? 'Just things to consider.