New Jersey man stabbed by wife, arrested and has gun safes confiscated and pried open

[LittleLebowski]

New Jersey.....

http://cliffviewpilot.com/lawyer-calls-assault-weapon-report-against-saddle-brook-gun-enthusiast-hyperbolic-hysteria/


A 10-count indictment returned by a grand jury in October charges Lintner with “creating risk of widespread injury or damage by recklesslessly handling or storing” 300 pounds of gunpowder in his 1,400-square-foot home.

The amount of powder was 10 times the legal limit that can be stored residentially, as well as a public safety hazard “not only for the home itself but for adjacent homes,” Saddle Brook Police Chief Robert Kugler told CLIFFVIEW PILOT following Lintner’s August arrest.

Authorities took 200 firearms from the home for storage and cataloging, as required by domestic violence laws.

Surrounding homes also were temporarily evacuated after police found and removed the gunpowder when they went to collect the guns.

During the operation, 65-year-old Eileen Lintner posted $75,000 bail and was released on aggravated assault charges — with the condition that she have no contact with her husband.

She has not been able to return to the house, authorities told CLIFFVIEW PILOT.

Her husband, meanwhile, has remained free on $2,500 bail.

Police first went to the house the morning of Aug. 7 on a domestic violence call and found Robert Lintner stabbed just below his ear. They took his wife into custody and obtained a search warrant.

Investigators found the powder and what Kugler, the police chief, called an “extensive” amount of ammunition after recovering the kitchen knife that they believe was used in the stabbing.

At that point they immediately halted their firearms search and summoned the Bergen County Police Department Bomb Squad. Adjacent homes were briefly evacuated.

Lintner had five gun vaults in the house and and what authorities initially estimated were 100 firearms, including handguns and long rifles, Kugler said.

They found dozens more after firefighters opened the vaults using the Jaws of Life.

Cracking the 6-foot-tall, half-ton safes became necessary when Lintner refused to open the himself, Kugler said.

[voodoo_man]

Freedom does not mean what we believe it means in NJ

[LittleLebowski]

Evacuating a neighborhood over blackpowder.....

[LSP552]

Thy don't make enough money for me to live there. Or visit!

[TGS]

1) 300lbs of black powder is an ass-ton-freaking-lot of low explosive to have in a residence. While it has a low brisance, that much black powder is easily enough to destroy that dwelling........which in turn, could deflagate or detonate other sources, like a propane tank or gas line. Without any further information on how this was stored....and being an awareness level instructor on explosives as well as an emergency responder....I'd err that evacuating the neighborhood was a prudent decision. If a bomb squad made the decision to evacuate up to a certain distance around the house, I really wouldn't question them. They're experts in explosives, for crying out loud.

So, let me be so bold to say that you're a complete idiot and way out of your lane if you're in doubt that this was a reasonable action to take.

2) There is a clear cut law on how many pounds of explosives you can store in a single dwelling. He was in violation of this......by a lot. I'm not seeing this as a massive injustice.

2) DV gets the guns in the house seized if the person lives in the house. Simple as that. I understand him not wanting to give them away, but this isn't a facet particular to NJ or any "commie state". I just looked up some various states laws, and it would happen in RKBA-strong states as well. While it sucks....I get that, I would be absolutely devastated if it happened to me....it's not unreasonable.

_______________________

So, where's the massive injustice? The same thing would have happened in most any other state.

[Lon]

My attitude s generally fuck NJ on general principles.

The only injustice I see is if they took all his guns and he DIDNT have that illegal amount of gunpowder. Why penalize him for her actions? Ive never take guns from a victim. Get a protection order keeping her outta the house and let him keep em. But since he broke the law by having all that gunpowder.....well, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Re-reading the article, I'm wondering what prompted the SW. We don't routinely get them for something like that, unless we have an uncooperative victim.

[voodoo_man]

No one is saying that a large amount of black powder isnt dangerous, of course it is. Hell 5 lbs of it will do damage if setup properly.

The issue is with the commie state that is NJ way of criminalizing conduct that is legal elsewhere. Can I own that much powder legally in PA? of course.

Furthermore, other states provide the opportunity to transfer possession of firearms upon issuance of a PFA, not have the police show up to your house and take everything.

[HCM]

The article says "gunpowder" . Is there another source confirming its actually black powder, not smokeless or pyrodex- big difference.

Also removing the firearms is only legal in most states once a DV protection order is in place - this guy is the victim, though it's unfortunately common for courts to simply slap an order on both parties automatically.

PS - fuck NJ

[Al T.]

storing 300 pounds of gunpowder

Black powder would be worrisome, but that's not mentioned....

[Lon]

I had black powder in mind. If it was smokeless powder, that is jacked up. I have zero desire to visit there. I remember being at Blackwater in 2001 at a course with a bunch of a NJ swat guys. There were appalled at all the personal weapons we had. And we were cops, too.

We don't see many dual orders around here.

Fuck NJ.

[Jeep]

2) DV gets the guns in the house seized if the person lives in the house. Simple as that. I understand him not wanting to give them away, but this isn't a facet particular to NJ or any "commie state". I just looked up some various states laws, and it would happen in RKBA-strong states as well. While it sucks....I get that, I would be absolutely devastated if it happened to me....it's not unreasonable.

_______________________

So, where's the massive injustice? The same thing would have happened in most any other state.

I don't know about the powder so I won't comment on that. But in most states domestic violence only leads to the seizing of the firearms of the guilty party--not the victim.

It is unreasonable to seize a victim's firearms and that was what was done here. It is also unreasonable to get a search warrant to search an entire house to find the stabbing weapon when he could have shown them the weapon.

Which leads me to believe that his wife--the stabber--might have told the police that he had a lot of guns and this being NJ of course they went and seized them. Either that or probable cause means very little to NJ magistrates.

[GardoneVT]

I don't know about the powder so I won't comment on that. But in most states domestic violence only leads to the seizing of the firearms of the guilty party--not the victim.



Unless the victim is named in a DV complaint which if nothing else, activates the Federal Lautenberg Act until the temp restraining order is addressed.

[45dotACP]

If it is smokeless powder, I know who to blame for being unable to find a single pound of Bullseye ;)

In seriousness...that's pretty crappy. Wanna bet he doesn't get compensation for a single firearm that was seized? 100 guns is thousands of bucks...

[BobM]

Re-reading the article, I'm wondering what prompted the SW. We don't routinely get them for something like that, unless we have an uncooperative victim.

I wondered that myself, we wouldn't apply for a search warrant either absent unusual circumstances


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[TGS]

The article says "gunpowder" . Is there another source confirming its actually black powder, not smokeless or pyrodex- big difference.

Also removing the firearms is only legal in most states once a DV protection order is in place - this guy is the victim, though it's unfortunately common for courts to simply slap an order on both parties automatically.

PS - fuck NJ

In most, but not all.

Even in gun - awesome AZ the officers can remove the guns prior to a DV charge/court order if the offender has access to them.

My point being that the concept enforced here is not specific to NJ or liberal ass backward states.

[HCM]

In most, but not all.

Even in gun - awesome AZ the officers can remove the guns prior to a DV charge/court order if the offender has access to them.

My point being that the concept enforced here is not specific to NJ or liberal ass backward states.

But 1) he is the victim, 2) the offender is barred by court order from the residence and 3) even if she violated the court order they are in safes.

[Hambo]

I'd err that evacuating the neighborhood was a prudent decision. If a bomb squad made the decision to evacuate up to a certain distance around the house, I really wouldn't question them.

I'll question their judgment on the evacuation. Black powder stored in retail containers is stable stuff, so unless it was rigged as a giant IED the evacuation was theater and nothing more. There is no doubt homeowner was substantially over the line as to the quantity he had stored. Usually the state or local fire codes specify quantities and stoarge requirements. Where I live it's 50 pounds of black powder. People hyperventilate over black powder, smokeless powder, and ammo, yet think nothing of having 2-3 20# propane tanks for their grill.

[BehindBlueI's]

It is also unreasonable to get a search warrant to search an entire house to find the stabbing weapon when he could have shown them the weapon.

What he can do vs what he did do are not the same thing in many cases, especially in domestic violence cases. You're thinking logically in a situation where both parties are often at the opposite end of the spectrum from logical thought processes.

I have no idea the specifics of this case, and nothing in the article changes that. However, 300 lb of gunpowder is probably well above relevant codes for storing explosives at a residence. Looks like a mixture to me:

http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Screen-Shot-2014-08-10-at-8.20.57-AM.png

SAAMI recommends the following as the model state code:

11-3.7 Smokeless propellants intended for personal use in quantities
not exceeding 20 lb. (9.1 kg) shall be permitted to be stored in original
containers in residences. Quantities exceeding 20 lb. (9.1 kg), but not
exceeding 50 lb. (22.7 kg), shall be permitted to be stored in residences
where kept in a wooden box or cabinet having walls of at least
1 in. (25.4 mm) nominal thickness.

New Jersey is real low on my list of places to visit, has retarded gun laws, but three hundred pounds of powder in original containers probably isn't going to pass muster in most (if any) jurisdictions.

[LSP972]

I remember being at Blackwater in 2001 at a course with a bunch of a NJ swat guys. There were appalled at all the personal weapons we had. And we were cops, too.



I have run across this attitude as well; mainly from upper east coast guys, but from Kalifornians, too.

Some folks are fond of saying "But, we're all Americans!"

No, we're not. Some of us have fully assimilated the communist liberal brainwashing, and now think accordingly. And THAT, above all IMO, is why this country is doomed.

.

[LittleLebowski]

In most, but not all.

Even in gun - awesome AZ the officers can remove the guns prior to a DV charge/court order if the offender has access to them.

My point being that the concept enforced here is not specific to NJ or liberal ass backward states.

The gun owner wasn't the offender.

[GardoneVT]

The gun owner wasn't the offender.

His wife likely has access to the safe.

[Jeep]

No, we're not. Some of us have fully assimilated the communist liberal brainwashing, and now think accordingly. And THAT, above all IMO, is why this country is doomed.

.


Nah--we have a decent chance of winning. The other side isn't having children and the population of most "blue" states is starting to fall. That is why they have become huge supporters of illegal immigration--they need the votes.

It isn't going to be pretty, but I'm betting against the lefties.

[LittleLebowski]

I absolutely don't think this would have happened in other states and I do think the hysteria over the powder coupled with the safes being opened and then guns being seized should absolutely be scaring gun owners.

This is how they're going to get us. Storage requirements. "Safety violations." "Hazmat." Tie that BS in with the EPA closing ranges and I have no hope for our lifestyle.

I'll never visit NJ nor NY.

[ssb]

His wife likely has access to the safe.

A safe that she can't access without being in violation of an order of protection.

[HCM]

His wife likely has access to the safe.

Plus Combo change is a phone call to a locksmith away.

[LSP972]

The other side isn't having children and the population of most "blue" states is starting to fall.

Huh… didn't know that. Interesting, to be sure.

I hope you're right. Absent The Revolution or other systemic collapse occurring in the near future, I won't be around to see who "wins"… but I fear for the golden years of my grandchildren.

Hell, OBuckwheatCare is fucking up MY golden years, via the large increases we will get hit with in health premiums come 1 July. And that hydrocephalic idiot of a governor we have is accelerating the demise of quality, affordable health care here (for state employees) via his retarded visions. Good thing he's on his way out; next he would try cutting pensions. He's got a real hard-on for state employees, while he pisses away state resources in a totally hopeless bid for a shot at the Republican presidential nomination.

What a dipshit…

.

[SecondsCount]

Hard to tell if the news always gets things right but if this is a legit story, this is another black eye for law enforcement.

The way I see it, if the guy had more powder on the premises than is allowed by law, then go tell him to remove it immediately or he will be charged. As far as the guns go, they had no right to get involved there. She was jailed and should not be allowed back on the property until the dispute is settled, and like HCM said, change the combination on the locks ASAP.

[RevolverRob]

There is obviously more than meets the eye here. Dollars to donuts, when the stabber was arrested she might have claimed the stabbee had "illegal weapons and explosives" in the house. That combined with the knowledge that there were guns in the house would be sufficient to get a search warrant. The police blowing it out of proportion in New Jersey isn't surprising. Remember NJ is close to the center of the universe. Where a 50-round box of .22LR is "enough ammunition to question the sanity of the owner!".

I'll wait to see what happens in terms of charges and ultimate prosecution on this one. Far be it for me to judge a man who has a lot of powder and a lot of guns. I don't blame him one bit. But I can't help and think if he'd sold some of that powder during the last Obama-based rush and a few guns, he could have afforded to move someplace nice, like Texas, where we don't care how much powder you own.

-Rob

[DMF13]

. . . black powder . . .

The issue is with the commie state that is NJ way of criminalizing conduct that is legal elsewhere.It's not legal elsewhere unless the possessor has a FEL, and proper bunker for storage.
Can I own that much powder legally in PA? of course.Only if you have an FEL and the proper bunker for storage.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCUQFjABahUKEwjgjqWp_JDGAhXODJIKHVlwAF4&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.atf.gov%2Ffile%2F22026%2Fdow nload&ei=M2N-VaCpAc6ZyATZ4IHwBQ&usg=AFQjCNG5uya098-gUVUYtfliiqolXCx2AA&bvm=bv.95515949,d.aWw&cad=rja

[Tom Duffy]

From the local newspaper:

http://www.northjersey.com/news/saddle-brook-man-allegedly-stabbed-by-wife-is-arrested-on-weapons-related-charges-1.1064713

http://www.northjersey.com/news/kelly-when-domestic-violence-laws-clash-with-gun-rights-1.1068734

http://www.northjersey.com/opinion/opinion-editorials/more-than-guns-1.1069443

http://www.northjersey.com/news/saddle-brook-man-indicted-on-weapons-charges-arsenal-included-nearly-200-guns-300-pounds-of-gunpowder-1.1114023

[CSW]

Freedom does not mean what we believe it means in NJ

It took me 49 to escape the oppression named NJ, and I have not EVER gone back....nor do I ever plan to.

Now in NH, I'm in a gun owner's paradise.
A state where the government does not make you feel like a criminal for purchasing firearms.


Evacuating a neighborhood over blackpowder.....

This is a typical NJ/NYC area response. I was a firefighter down there for 25 years, you would not believe the shit we would be sent to.....for absolutely nothing. God forbid a kid left his backpack at the front of the school when the 6 figure nanny picked them up. 4 town FD on standby. robots and bomb squads, dogs, it was almost embarrasing.....especially when the dog would alert to the uneaten sandwich left in the backpak.

so glad I'm out!

[TGS]

This is a typical NJ/NYC area response. I was a firefighter down there for 25 years, you would not believe the shit we would be sent to.....for absolutely nothing. God forbid a kid left his backpack at the front of the school when the 6 figure nanny picked them up. 4 town FD on standby. robots and bomb squads, dogs, it was almost embarrasing.....especially when the dog would alert to the uneaten sandwich left in the backpak.

Was this tied to a specific hysteria, like 9/11?

Because what you described is absolutely not typical for my area.

[CSW]

I was in Northern Jersey, 4 miles from NYC. Yup, it all started after 9/11, and just became SOP for alot of the PD in the area, especially with schools.

Where are you being held captive?:cool:

[HCM]

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/06/22/nj-court-husband-loses-gun-rights-because-wife-is-a-felon/

A New Jersey state appeals court recently ruled that a southern New Jersey man could not on guns because his wife is a convicted felon and she could potentially have access to firearms if they were in the home.

I'm assuming this was a denial of either a firearm on her ID card or a handgun purchase permit request. This sounds like it would be a great case to take to the federal courts.

[LorenzoS]

a New Jersey appellate court upheld the ruling that a southern New Jersey man cannot own guns because reasons.

The state is a lost cause, not just for civil liberties but economically, socially and quality of life. The smartest thing I ever did was to make an escape plan and follow through on it. If you are at all able to do so, get out instead of wasting more time in that place.

[HCM]

The state is a lost cause, not just for civil liberties but economically, socially and quality of life. The smartest thing I ever did was to make an escape plan and follow through on it. If you are at all able to do so, get out instead of wasting more time in that place.

I left the other Axis power, NY, 20 years ago for free America. There's more to life than good pizza...

[PPGMD]

I left the other Axis power, NY, 20 years ago for free America. There's more to life than good pizza...

Cane Rosso has better pizza anyways.