Any cases of people continuing to fight after a 12guage?

[Luke]

From my short time here I've gotten to read a few police reports of shootings and seen many videos from dash cams of shootings were the bad guy kept advancing after multiple hits via handgun and/or rifle. Does anyone have a credible source for anyone receiving a 12g slug and continuing to advance?

[John Hearne]

I am familiar with one. Bad guy was seated in the driver's seat of a vehicle. When an arrest team approached, he shot and killed one of the officers. He then took a 12 gauge slug that took his right arm, lung, heart, lung. His response to the wound was to reach down with his intact left arm and retrieve the pistol. He expired very quickly there after but if you want "instant" you need to damage/destroy the CNS.

[voodoo_man]

Years ago responded to a call of an attempted suicide. Dude put a 12g upto his chest and pulled the trigger. He flinched and had bird shot. He didnt die that day, but suffered for a few months.

[Chuck Haggard]

Jim Cirillo told me about a guy the stake-out squad shot that managed to get away on foot after being hit with a slug, all the way through, side-to-side, but below the diaphram. That guy got far enough away on foot to lose the cops, he jacked a car, drove himself to the hospital, dumped the car, but it was a really crappy hospital with poor resources, they told him they couldn't help him with that kind of injury, so he jacked another car and drove himself to different hospital.

[Dagga Boy]

The shotgun is no different than any other system in how it creates trauma. It just tends to make more and bigger and at the same time. If the shotgun makes a hydraulic wound, you still have to wait for the air in/fluid out ratio to take effect. Keep in mind that with a gigantic hole through the heart it may take several seconds for the person to stop their capability to fight. Now, I have never heard of a single case of getting a slug in the head or spinal column and it not working. Heck, I was instantly stopped taking a slug ricochet to my left eyebrow off a steel target when one of my guys accidentally loaded a slug instead of a birdshot round on a range drill. Thankfully, I was wearing Oakley's, but I was jacked up from a "bounce" where most of the slugs energy was already depleted.

In my first shooting I put a load of 00 through a carjackers kneecap about seven yards. That dude took off running like a gazelle. Eventually a single round from the spread just under his ass cheek at 47 yards dropped him. Stuff is totally unpredictable. On the good side....when that carjacker (who's gang name after the incident was "Limpy") was hit by his own gang at his apartment and tried to run.....he got caught quickly and knelt down in a yard and shot in the back of the head.......so I guess the shotgun can be lethal years later;).

[Luke]

Thanks guys. I got into a conversation with a freind about this. I told him I would bet there are people out there who have taken a slug and kept going and he believed any man taking a slug to the upper torso would atleast stop before trying to advance again (with shot placement not in question). I'm very hard headed and am determined to prove him wrong. All in fun, but would love to send him a hyperlink via text to a report that shows just that.

[SouthNarc]

My first shooting was with a shotgun and I caught the guy right at the edge of the sternum in the neck. Pretty spectacular stoppage. Distance was almost 6 yards. Standard 9 pellet Federal buck, early nineties vintage.

[Chuck Haggard]

The vast majority of the failures to stop I have seen, with any round, has been hits below the diaphragm, or straight through one lung with nothing else being hit.

[JDM]

My first shooting was with a shotgun and I caught the guy right at the edge of the sternum in the neck. Pretty spectacular stoppage. Distance was almost 6 yards. Standard 9 pellet Federal buck, early nineties vintage.

Damn. That'll do it.

[SouthNarc]

Didn't mean to but I floated my bead high. You really shouldn't let a single experience have so much impact, but watching a guy drop like God raptured his ass, is pretty stunning.

[Chuck Haggard]

Didn't mean to but I floated my bead high. You really shouldn't let a single experience have so much impact, but watching a guy drop like God raptured his ass, is pretty stunning.

I watched a dude take a 12 gauge hit in the first couple of months I was on the job, dude caught 25 out of the 27 pellets of #4 buck on an open air shot, spread was between his throat and solar plexus with about half of the pellets going all the way through, he dropped like a puppet with the strings cut. I so get it.

[John Hearne]

From Paul Kircher's "Tales of the Stakeout Squad" - he relates a story about a guy who took a 12 gauge slug ricochet and ended up fleeing on the subway.

[voodoo_man]

From Paul Kircher's "Tales of the Stakeout Squad" - he relates a story about a guy who took a 12 gauge slug ricochet and ended up fleeing on the subway.

Speaking of ricochet's, one of our swat guys discharged a 12g at a guy during a carstop, one of the pellets bounced and got stuck in his partners arm. They made them get retrained on shotgun implementation afterwards.

[Dagga Boy]

Places that use the 12 ga. a lot like LAPD metro and SIS tend to have a bunch of pretty spectacular drops. Nothing is guaranteed, but at 10 yards and in, it is what I have the most faith in that I can own and carry.

[EM_]

I watched a dude take a 12 gauge hit in the first couple of months I was on the job, dude caught 25 out of the 27 pellets of #4 buck on an open air shot, spread was between his throat and solar plexus with about half of the pellets going all the way through, he dropped like a puppet with the strings cut. I so get it.

Same...not me, but a 12 gauge slug at a downward angle entering the right clavicle transversing the body and exiting beneath the left ribs. Puppet and strings...

I have quite a bit of faith in the 12 gauge, especially if working around cars a lot.

[sff70]

Charlie Beckwith took a shot in the chest from a 12.7mm. Slowed him down a bit, but sure didn't kill him.

[Drifting Fate]

Nothing is 100%, but 12ga failure stories exist because they are the exception to the rule. They exist, but in the minority.

[SpyderMan2k4]

... watching a guy drop like God raptured his ass, is pretty stunning.

This is my new favorite phrase

[ACP230]

Richard Davis, head of the old Second Chance Body Armor Co, discussed a case with a 12 gauge involved.
The SC vest wasn't rated for the 12 but stopped a slug anyway. Cop lost most of the use of his arm due to the hit and switched to
shooting back with his off (left) hand. Used up most of the ammo he had keeping the attacker's head down.

The attacker was also firing at his family and the cop cleared a fence to get them on the ground and out of the line of
fire. The attacker set the house on fire and died in the blaze.
The cop said he had no memory of getting over the fence. He took a hit to the shoulder area and a grazing hit (to the back I think)
in the fight. Didn't notice the second hit till afterward.

[Beat Trash]

Nothing is 100%, but 12ga failure stories exist because they are the exception to the rule. They exist, but in the minority.

Exactly...

There are no guarantees when using a firearm. I personally feel that a 12 ga. shotgun is a limited use tool. But within it's limitations, it can be very effective.

[pablo]

I once sat on a prisoner in the hospital who took a load of reduced recoil 00 buck in the chest, right above the left nipple at about 10 feet. He ran off, K9 came out and tracked him down, officers had to fight him into cuffs 30 minutes later. No telling what sort of alternative lifestyle pharmaceutical products he was using. The suspect died about 5 hours after being shot. He was dead the moment he was shot, the drugs kept him going for a while.

[LHS]

I remember when I was a teenager, watching some video on of Dad's VHS training films. It was news footage of some kind of college student protest/riot in South/Central America. Some student with a backpack and empty hands rushed out of a cloud of tear gas, his hands covering his eyes and obviously blind. He inadvertently ran right at a riot cop with a shotgun. The cop center-punched him at near-muzzle-contact distance (I remember thinking "That kid's heart is now in his backpack, in shreds" at the time). The kid said something that to my teenage non-Spanish-speaking ears sounded like "Ay-yay-yay!" and then crumpled. The cop calmly cycled the action and sauntered off.

[olstyn]

I remember when I was a teenager, watching some video on of Dad's VHS training films. It was news footage of some kind of college student protest/riot in South/Central America. Some student with a backpack and empty hands rushed out of a cloud of tear gas, his hands covering his eyes and obviously blind. He inadvertently ran right at a riot cop with a shotgun. The cop center-punched him at near-muzzle-contact distance (I remember thinking "That kid's heart is now in his backpack, in shreds" at the time). The kid said something that to my teenage non-Spanish-speaking ears sounded like "Ay-yay-yay!" and then crumpled. The cop calmly cycled the action and sauntered off.

I apologize for getting outside my lane here, but I have a question: what's the justification for shooting in that scenario? As a civilian, I must be missing some nuance, because from that description, at least, it doesn't sound like the kid was a threat. (I am of course open to the idea that if I was watching the video, my impression of the event might be different.)

[LHS]

I apologize for getting outside my lane here, but I have a question: what's the justification for shooting in that scenario? As a civilian, I must be missing some nuance, because from that description, at least, it doesn't sound like the kid was a threat. (I am of course open to the idea that if I was watching the video, my impression of the event might be different.)

It wasn't justified in the least, but I guess they do things differently south of the border.

[olstyn]

Fair enough. Thanks for confirming my thought process on that one.