Shotgun questions. Mossberg 590A1 VS 930?

[Shellback]

Primary usage will be as a HD gun due to moving to AR unfriendly places. From what I've gathered on the latest generation of 870's I'm better off going with Mossberg. I'm fairly new to the shotgun but plan on taking several classes this year and really getting to know it as my primary HD long gun.

I'm looking at the Magpul 590A1 pump with 18.5" barrel (http://www.mossberg.com/product/590a1-magpul-series-6-9-shot-51417/) for $580 VS 930 Tactical semi-auto (http://www.mossberg.com/product/930-tactical-5-shot-85320/) $534 new.

Also found a used 930 SPX (http://www.mossberg.com/product/930-spx-8-shot-85360/) for $620 (new $689 + tax +$25 background). He claims to have only 10 rounds of 00 through it but I'm not a shotgun inspection expert.

Pros & cons for semi VS pump in this role? Does the 930 have a good reputation for a semi? I'm open to other suggestions in the same price range but don't want to drop $1k right now.

[SamuelBLong]

I prefer a semi, but you can learn to run the pump nearly as fast on single targets, and transitioning between targets it doesn't really make a difference. In a home defense role it won't really matter, although you're guaranteed cycling with the pump if you work it properly. Semi's can be finicky about ammo.

One thing to be aware of is that you can get that 590 down to the proper 12-13" LOP. The 930 you're pretty much stuck with the longer LOP unless you want to put in the work to try and shorten the factory stock, or spend extra $$ on a Mesa Urbino.




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[SamuelBLong]

Oh also... summit gunbrokers has a bunch of 870p and wing master agency trade in's inbound... 325 for the P's and 175 for a wingmaster if I recall correctly

Might be something to consider.


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[Shellback]

One thing to be aware of is that you can get that 590 down to the proper 12-13" LOP. The 930 you're pretty much stuck with the longer LOP unless you want to put in the work to try and shorten the factory stock, or spend extra $$ on a Mesa Urbino.

I wasn't aware of that. I'll definitely need the shorter LOP for the wife.

Looks like the Urbino is a pistol grip only stock which I'm not looking for.

[jlw]

I'm sure there are those who can sing the virtues of the 930, but the examples that I have seen in the wild have not been promising. Three of my local shooting group have bought them, and all three have had issues to the point they had to go back to the factory.

My personal experience the with the 590 is limited to a new production unit that I won in a drawing a couple of years ago. I ran it in an Erik Lund class with no issues.

At heart, I am an 870P guy. The older 870Ps can be had with a little looking, and those mentioned above from Summit are a pretty good deal.

[Lester Polfus]

Hey dude check your pm

[Shellback]

I'm sure there are those who can sing the virtues of the 930, but the examples that I have seen in the wild have not been promising. Three of my local shooting group have bought them, and all three have had issues to the point they had to go back to the factory.

Thanks Chief. That definitely makes me rethink the 930.

[HopetonBrown]

I'd rather have an 870 than a 930, and the decision wouldn't even be close. USPSA members can buy a Magpul 870 for $450 until the end of the month.

[Chuck Haggard]

I'm not a big fan of the newer 870s made over the past couple of years, QC under the new owners has not taken a positive turn IMHO.


After working with well over 150 Mossberg 500s and 590s in the program at my old job I can say that they are a solid choice if one wants a pump gun.

[Shellback]

I'm not a big fan of the newer 870s made over the past couple of years, QC under the new owners has not taken a positive turn IMHO.

After working with well over 150 Mossberg 500s and 590s in the program at my old job I can say that they are a solid choice if one wants a pump gun.

I was leaning towards the Mossberg after reading numerous shotgun threads, your experience, and several others. The 870P deal at Summit may be an option though.

[Shellback]

With the wife being a lefty I think it makes more sense to go with the Mossy at this point. More than likely the 590A1 if I can find one for a decent price.

[jlw]

I'm not a big fan of the newer 870s made over the past couple of years, QC under the new owners has not taken a positive turn IMHO.


After working with well over 150 Mossberg 500s and 590s in the program at my old job I can say that they are a solid choice if one wants a pump gun.


I was leaning towards the Mossberg after reading numerous shotgun threads, your experience, and several others. The 870P deal at Summit may be an option though.


With the wife being a lefty I think it makes more sense to go with the Mossy at this point. More than likely the 590A1 if I can find one for a decent price.

590A1 vs new production 870 Express: I'd lean to the Mossy.

590A1 vs 870P from a better era: No contest. It's the 870P without question.

As the lefty safety manipulation, if using the Givens doctrine for shotgun safeties this just won't be an issue. If you aren't comfortable with that, the safety on the Mossy is easier for a lefty provided it doesn't freeze up.

***Blatant plug for you and her to take a Givens shotgun course. ;)

[Shellback]

As the lefty safety manipulation, if using the Givens doctrine for shotgun safeties this just won't be an issue. If you aren't comfortable with that, the safety on the Mossy is easier for a lefty provided it doesn't freeze up.

***Blatant plug for you and her to take a Givens shotgun course. ;)

I'm 100% for taking one of his classes. I'm not familiar with his doctrine but would love to learn.

[JodyH]

I'd buy a Benelli Nova looooong before I'd buy any other current production pump shotgun.
The only downside to the Nova is the long LOP, and chopping that down 1" took me about 30 minutes with a hacksaw and some epoxy.

[SpyderMan2k4]

A couple things to think about: I'm sure plenty of people are happy with their 930s, but for home defense I know I personally would not go with Mossberg (or Remington for that matter) if choosing a semi.

If comparing 870s to 590s and 590a1s, a fair comparison is the 870P, which is far superior to the express. I haven't heard of any P models having the issues regularly found in express models.

If your wife is a lefty then the Mossberg is an easy decision. Having recently got a 590a1, I'd probably recommend a "standard" 590. I ordered mine and had no idea just how much heavier the thick walled a1 barrel is. Considering I was trying to keep the Mossberg as little smaller, lighter, and handier, the extra heavy barrel was kind of a bummer. I'll say I have gotten used to it, but it does feel heavier than my 870 which is a bit longer overall AND has a 2 round magazine extension.

[Shellback]

I'd buy a Benelli Nova looooong before I'd buy any other current production pump shotgun.
The only downside to the Nova is the long LOP, and chopping that down 1" took me about 30 minutes with a hacksaw and some epoxy.
Hadn't really thought of Benelli yet. I'll check them out.

If comparing 870s to 590s and 590a1s, a fair comparison is the 870P, which is far superior to the express. I haven't heard of any P models having the issues regularly found in express models.

If your wife is a lefty then the Mossberg is an easy decision. Having recently got a 590a1, I'd probably recommend a "standard" 590. I ordered mine and had no idea just how much heavier the thick walled a1 barrel is. Considering I was trying to keep the Mossberg as little smaller, lighter, and handier, the extra heavy barrel was kind of a bummer. I'll say I have gotten used to it, but it does feel heavier than my 870 which is a bit longer overall AND has a 2 round magazine extension.
I hadn't considered the weight issue either. Thanks!

[Paul]

If and when they do break, the 590 is much easier to fix.

The staked parts on an 870 can be a PITA to repair. The ejector on an 870 is used to index the barrel, IMO is a weak link in the design and when they break it's a lot of work to replace a simple part. Done correctly it will require refinishing the receiver after the rivets are flush ground. For most folks their shotgun takes a couple week long trip to a Remington repair center. On a 590 replacing the ejector requires a screw driver and a drop of loctite.

I don't much about Nova's, but one place where the 500/590 excel is in ease of repair.

[JodyH]

My bird hunting Nova (I bought it the first year they came out) has seen thousands of rounds in absolute crap weather (quail season is usually November through February) and in ugly field conditions (thorn brush busting and desert sand) with zero cleaning or lubrication and has never missed a beat or broken a part.
I also shot a Nova Tactical 18.5" in 3 gun matches for several years with no issues at all.

[popo22]

I like my 930 Tactical: light weight, softer shooter and just fun to shoot. It was way too picky about ammo prior to be properly broken in, it would only cycle "hi-powered" rounds (over 1400 fps) consistently and I would not recommend it for home defense for that reason alone. My 590's are work horses and seem to never have problems, but recoil is significantly more. My newer 870's have not been as reliable or hearty, needing more care.

[LSP972]

My bird hunting Nova (I bought it the first year they came out) has seen thousands of rounds in absolute crap weather (quail season is usually November through February) and in ugly field conditions (thorn brush busting and desert sand) with zero cleaning or lubrication and has never missed a beat or broken a part.
I also shot a Nova Tactical 18.5" in 3 gun matches for several years with no issues at all.

Pre-Freedom Group (or whoever) 870s equal or exceed that easily. When I visited the FBI FTU at Quantico in the mid-90s, I saw an 870P that had been in continuous service as a range gun since 1960, with a documented 100,000+ rounds through it. They had replaced the springs and extractor at one point, but nothing else. Paul's mention of the difficulty replacing the ejector is 100% correct, but the only time I've seen that part broken (in 20+ years/1000+ guns) was due to somebody futzing around inside the receiver with a wire brush.

If you can get an older 870P (a GENUINE "P"), that would be my first choice. I would definitely choose that over a Mossberg 500; I understand the 590 is a different beast, actually better than the 870 in several respects. Dunno, never even fired a 590 that I can recall.

BTW, Remington offers a youth stock for the 870 that is a drop-in fit for the 12 gauge receivers.

Something else to consider… non-police 870s will probably have an extended forearm that will block the loading port when the slide is back, preventing safe unloading should that become necessary. The 870 has a not-commonly-known unloading process that is easy and pretty much fool-proof, but requires access to the loading port when the slide is back.

Dunno about the other guns mentioned… not familiar with the their manual of arms details.

But if you take nothing else away from this, be sure to realize that the HD shotgun, in anything other than single shot or double barrel trim, is most assuredly NOT the simple, anyone-can-do-it solution that most folks think it is. There is quite a bit of technique and skill involved in handling a pump or semi-auto shotgun properly; and I'll second Tom as a source of that instruction.

.

[Shellback]

Having recently got a 590a1, I'd probably recommend a "standard" 590. I ordered mine and had no idea just how much heavier the thick walled a1 barrel is. Considering I was trying to keep the Mossberg as little smaller, lighter, and handier, the extra heavy barrel was kind of a bummer. I'll say I have gotten used to it, but it does feel heavier than my 870 which is a bit longer overall AND has a 2 round magazine extension.
Do you know the weight difference? The Mossberg website shows them being equal in weight.

But if you take nothing else away from this, be sure to realize that the HD shotgun, in anything other than single shot or double barrel trim, is most assuredly NOT the simple, anyone-can-do-it solution that most folks think it is. There is quite a bit of technique and skill involved in handling a pump or semi-auto shotgun properly; and I'll second Tom as a source of that instruction.
I'll be seeking out professional instruction within the next month. Tom is out due to proximity. More than likely my first class will be with Chris Fry, due to being a great instructor, and being local to me.

[gruntjim]

My main closet gun is a 590A1. Reliable to a fault, and very solid.

As an aside, my friend Doug Tollen and I tested it at 30 meters with various loads. Winchester Ranger Reduced patterned about 16 inches. Federal 8 pellet FliteControl went into the space of my spread hand (about 6 inches). Slugs were all over, but what else can you expect with a cylinder bore?

[SpyderMan2k4]

Do you know the weight difference? The Mossberg website shows them being equal in weight.

I'll be seeking out professional instruction within the next month. Tom is out due to proximity. More than likely my first class will be with Chris Fry, due to being a great instructor, and being local to me.
I do not know the weight difference. Sorry.

[NerdAlert]

25 yard group, with one called flyer, shot with just a FO front sight from short M2 12 gauge:

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/FO%20sight_zpsfcr7xngw.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/FO%20sight_zpsfcr7xngw.jpeg.html)



Slugs were all over, but what else can you expect with a cylinder bore?
Would it be out of line to expect this from a cylinder bore? Honestly curious.

ETA: second quote for clarity
Sent from my iPhone, I apologize in advance for typos.

"Gustatus similis pullus"

[Chuck Haggard]

Would it be out of line to expect this from a cylinder bore? Honestly curious.



No, if you did the work to find what slugs work from your guns. Finding slugs that work from a cylinder bore shotgun typically takes some getting to the range time to see what your barrel likes.

FWIW, from Foster type slugs I have found the Federal TruBall slugs to be very good from a number of different shotguns with cylinder and IC chokes.

[Shellback]

I do not know the weight difference. Sorry.

I think the weight actually may be negligible due to the fact that you can only get the 590 in an 20" barrel but you can get the A1 in an 18". A lil' shorter & thicker but ultimately the same weight, just a theory.

[SpyderMan2k4]

I think the weight actually may be negligible due to the fact that you can only get the 590 in an 20" barrel but you can get the A1 in an 18". A lil' shorter & thicker but ultimately the same weight, just a theory.
Ahhhh gotcha. I've got the 590a1 18" and was amazed how much heavier it was than an 18" 500. I didn't realize they only made 590s in 20" (I probably did, but forgot... It was probably the reason I was sure to go with the 590a1 in the first place)

[Shellback]

Oh also... summit gunbrokers has a bunch of 870p and wing master agency trade in's inbound... 325 for the P's and 175 for a wingmaster if I recall correctly

They must not want to sell them. I left a message 2 days ago and haven't heard anything back.

[Chuck Haggard]

They must not want to sell them. I left a message 2 days ago and haven't heard anything back.

They can have some really crappy CS in my experience.

[Shellback]

They can have some really crappy CS in my experience.

I was going to get an 870P from them and a Mossberg and sell the one I didn't like after a few range days with them. I called all the local stores here in Vegas for the 870P and no one has any trade ins, or new for that matter.

Packing & moving the next 2 days so it'll have to wait til I get settled in the new house.

[Irelander]

I bought a new 870 "tactical" a few years ago. I read on the AI&P Tactical site that its a good idea to change the extractor to non-MIM (http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/receiver-action-parts/extractor-parts/extractors/extractor-non-mim-extractor-non-mim-sku767-161-760-10745-27187.aspx) and Carrier Latch Spring (http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/trigger-group-parts/carrier-parts/carrier-springs/carrier-latch-spring-carrier-latch-spring-sku767-169-660-10763-27211.aspx). I also removed the Remington +2 extension and replaced it with a Wilson +2. The extractor took a little bit of fitting but other than that it was easy to replace the parts and it runs like a dream.

Although, this (http://summitgunbroker.com/870-mag.html) would be hard to pass up.

[shootist26]

I hated the rem factory extension.

Tried both the Wilson and Vang extensions. Preferred the Wilson as it had deeper grooves that better engaged the ball detent on my barrel. The Vang required frequent re-tightening on my 870

[TR675]

For pure balance I really like an 18" barreled 870 with a Wilson +1 extension on it.