Lateral movement while engaging targets

[Danny]

I'd like some tips about lateral moving while shooting. In the police world we train to never cross our legs/never have one leg behind the other while moving laterally. The result is usually a step-drag or gallop motion that seems horribly inefficient and slow. I tried just walking forward normally and turning my upper body towards the targets, but it doesn't seem to allow me to fully extend my arms.

What works for you?

[Kyle Reese]

I'd like some tips about lateral moving while shooting. In the police world we train to never cross our legs/never have one leg behind the other while moving laterally. The result is usually a step-drag or gallop motion that seems horribly inefficient and slow. I tried just walking forward normally and turning my upper body towards the targets, but it doesn't seem to allow me to fully extend my arms.

What works for you?

I use the turret technique (which you described) and depending on the circumstances, sometimes opt to shoot one handed, as I can get better extension while moving laterally.

[Danny]

I use the turret technique (which you described) and depending on the circumstances, sometimes opt to shoot one handed, as I can get better extension while moving laterally.

I hadn't even considered trying it one handed. I'll give it a shot tomorrow.

[DNW]

Also try opening up your stance by pointing the foot closer to the targets towards the targets, if that makes sense. This should help open your hips towards the target a little more.

[BehindBlueI's]

I'd like some tips about lateral moving while shooting. In the police world we train to never cross our legs/never have one leg behind the other while moving laterally. The result is usually a step-drag or gallop motion that seems horribly inefficient and slow. I tried just walking forward normally and turning my upper body towards the targets, but it doesn't seem to allow me to fully extend my arms.

What works for you?

In our police world we're taught to just walk if it's further than one large lateral step. It's one less thing to think about, it's what you want to do naturally, etc. You will likely not be able to extend your arm closest to the target fully, but we also understand that in a confined space we may not be able to and we must adapt to the circumstances that present themselves.

We also tend to have horrid flexibility. Sitting in a car/desk chair and the duty belt means most of us have really tight lower backs, hips, etc. As un-manly as it sounds, try yoga and you'll find it easier to "tank turret" turn. I personally am much to manly to do yoga, but if I weren't as manly I would say it helped me quite a bit. ;)

[JHC]

Lateral is about as hard as it gets. Lots of folks smarter than me have questioned the real point of it.

When trained by Proctor (somebody here or on FB got me sensitive about saying "trained WITH Proctor") his emphasis was not so much about evading incoming rounds as it was a technique that could be used to accomplish the work to be done more efficiently i.e. get through a stage or clear a room and get to point B when your team expected you to.

I'm not sure I've seen too many that move and shoot as smoothly. I'd watch all the vids of his moving that you can find. He basically said walk pretty much as you normally do with only the lightest more knee flexion. Here is a short clip of him demo'ing this to my son and I when we trained . . . were trained by him. ;)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/78036189@N07/8233607672/in/dateposted-public/

[Redhat]

What would be the "real world" application vs a quick movement off-line?

Thanks

[Mr_White]

There are two methods of shooting on the move that I like to practice.

I think the way TLG teaches shooting on the move, which is to maintain best upper body shooting platform with shoulders square to target, bend knees, get low, body weight forward, and just move the feet without trying to conform to some stylized method of foot movement like the shuffle step or groucho walk, etc., is pure gold, particularly for confined and cluttered spaces, or when the top priority is the shooting, but I'd also like to move at the same time. This is the way I generally shoot on the move in USPSA, because of the relatively large number of targets that often have to be engaged within a pretty short span of movement.

Shooting on the run, pointing my feet perpendicular to the target direction is how I like to do it when there is space available and the top priority is the movement, but I'd also like to shoot at the same time.

Those two ways can also flow back and forth to each other very well.

Two quick videos of the second method:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpU3l_3DiTA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dmU7aIwjAk

[JHC]

I don't think I've ever seen anyone moving that fast while hitting low prob targets. That's pretty sick.

[Dagga Boy]

Ditto...

[Tom Givens]

One thing to consider. When you move laterally by pointing the feet in the direction of travel, and turn the upper body to shoot (turret), you are offering your opponent a trans-torso shot that can get both your lungs and your heart with one shot. This is the classic broadside shot hunters wait for. If you are wearing armor (LE/Mil), you are offering the side arm-hole to your opponent.

[DNW]

One thing to consider. When you move laterally by pointing the feet in the direction of travel, and turn the upper body to shoot (turret), you are offering your opponent a trans-torso shot that can get both your lungs and your heart with one shot. This is the classic broadside shot hunters wait for. If you are wearing armor (LE/Mil), you are offering the side arm-hole to your opponent.

I am not tracking with you, what am I missing?

If you are turning your upper body as a turret towards your target, your armor should be more square to the target than if you just continued to move. By opening your hips and orienting your upper body to the threat you are using more of a natural point of aim, and also bringing your armor towards the threat.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I don't think I've ever seen anyone moving that fast while hitting low prob targets. That's pretty sick.

Yeah, that is literally obscene.

[Danny]

In our police world we're taught to just walk if it's further than one large lateral step. It's one less thing to think about, it's what you want to do naturally, etc. You will likely not be able to extend your arm closest to the target fully, but we also understand that in a confined space we may not be able to and we must adapt to the circumstances that present themselves.

We also tend to have horrid flexibility. Sitting in a car/desk chair and the duty belt means most of us have really tight lower backs, hips, etc. As un-manly as it sounds, try yoga and you'll find it easier to "tank turret" turn. I personally am much to manly to do yoga, but if I weren't as manly I would say it helped me quite a bit. ;)

I've been trying to avoid yoga for years, lol. Admittedly, I'm stiff as a board with very little flexibility. Gotta adapt or become obsolete, I guess.

[EM_]

That is some of the most impressive shooting I've seen.

And TG's point is definitely something to consider.

But daaammmmnnnnnnnn that shooting...I have to go reconsider everything I thought I knew about shooting. :)

[Tom Givens]

I am not tracking with you, what am I missing?

If you are turning your upper body as a turret towards your target, your armor should be more square to the target than if you just continued to move. By opening your hips and orienting your upper body to the threat you are using more of a natural point of aim, and also bringing your armor towards the threat.

No one actually turns their torso 90 degrees while moving laterally. Also, for a right handed shooter moving to the left, most shoot with one hand, keeping the torso pointed in the direction of travel. This results in a perfect cross-torso shot availability.

[Redhat]

No one actually turns their torso 90 degrees while moving laterally. Also, for a right handed shooter moving to the left, most shoot with one hand, keeping the torso pointed in the direction of travel. This results in a perfect cross-torso shot availability.

I see what you mean but what is the alternative...move and stop to shoot? Side Step?

[DNW]

Everything is a compromise. If you are shooting and moving, you are likely not doing either as well as you could. There are times when one or the other should be your priority. I see moving and shooting as a capability, or component skill, rather than a tactic. It's nice to be able to do if needed, but most times I would rather haul ass to a good position and shoot well from there.

[Redhat]

Everything is a compromise. If you are shooting and moving, you are likely not doing either as well as you could. There are times when one or the other should be your priority. I see moving and shooting as a capability, or component skill, rather than a tactic. It's nice to be able to do if needed, but most times I would rather haul ass to a good position and shoot well from there.

I agree but I was specifically referring to lateral movement without exposing the sides.

[sig765]

I'd like some tips about lateral moving while shooting. In the police world we train to never cross our legs/never have one leg behind the other while moving laterally. The result is usually a step-drag or gallop motion that seems horribly inefficient and slow. I tried just walking forward normally and turning my upper body towards the targets, but it doesn't seem to allow me to fully extend my arms.

What works for you?

+1 for shooting 1 handed. Walk naturally and fire 1 handed when moving laterally works very well once practiced


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[JHC]

There are two methods of shooting on the move that I like to practice.

I think the way TLG teaches shooting on the move, which is to maintain best upper body shooting platform with shoulders square to target, bend knees, get low, body weight forward, and just move the feet without trying to conform to some stylized method of foot movement like the shuffle step or groucho walk, etc., is pure gold, particularly for confined and cluttered spaces, or when the top priority is the shooting, but I'd also like to move at the same time. This is the way I generally shoot on the move in USPSA, because of the relatively large number of targets that often have to be engaged within a pretty short span of movement.

Shooting on the run, pointing my feet perpendicular to the target direction is how I like to do it when there is space available and the top priority is the movement, but I'd also like to shoot at the same time.

Those two ways can also flow back and forth to each other very well.

Two quick videos of the second method:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpU3l_3DiTA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dmU7aIwjAk

I may bump this thread with these vids once a week. ;)

Mr. White - is there much difference in your visual acquisition of the front sight shooting at this speed from your stationary?

[Mr_White]

Lol.

No, not much difference at all. One of the most essential points in shooting accurately on the gentle run like that is to avoid letting the visual chaos that will be inherent to that amount of movement goad me into accepting less visual reference than usual. Visual reference is going to be less precise because of an aggravated wobble zone, but I still want the most precise visual reference I can get. I still use a sight picture composed of target, front sight, and rear sight, there's just more movement in it.

It can be tempting to aim using the slide silhouette or similar, and that can work, but I think it's less precise and I don't think it costs me anything to use the more precise sights instead.

[JHC]

Lol.

No, not much difference at all. One of the most essential points in shooting accurately on the gentle run like that is to avoid letting the visual chaos that will be inherent to that amount of movement goad me into accepting less visual reference than usual. Visual reference is going to be less precise because of an aggravated wobble zone, but I still want the most precise visual reference I can get. I still use a sight picture composed of target, front sight, and rear sight, there's just more movement in it.

It can be tempting to aim using the slide silhouette or similar, and that can work, but I think it's less precise and I don't think it costs me anything to use the more precise sights instead.

Jeezus.