Week 113: Triple Nickel

[Mr_White]

Week 113: Triple Nickel

Results may be posted until June 22nd, 2015.

Designed by: the Federal Air Marshal firearms training unit
Range: 5 yards
Target: see below
Start Position: from concealment or a duty/retention holster
Rounds Fired: 10

Targets can be (a) the 4/5 zone of a Transtar II, (b) the bottle of a QIT target, (c) the A/B/C zones of a USPSA Metric target, or (d) the -0 and -1 zones of an IDPA target. Any bullet strike completely within the designated area counts as a hit; any strike that touches the line or falls outside the designated area counts as a miss. There must be at least 18" between each target.

Shooter begins facing the target, hands at sides, gun in holster loaded with no more than nine rounds (shooter chooses to load anywhere between one and nine rounds). On the buzzer, draw and fire exactly two shots at each of the five targets. Shooter will need to perform a reload to accomplish this.

Please report the following when you post your results in this thread:

Start position (concealed or duty)
Time
Number of hits
Make and model of gun and holster

Training with firearms is an inherently dangerous activity. Be sure to follow all safety protocols when using firearms or practicing these drills. These drills are provided for information purposes only. Use at your own risk.

[Range1]

Start position: Concealed, vest
Time: 7.31
Number of hits: 10
Make and model of gun and holster: Glock 34 Gen 3 from a CompTac OWB holster

[JHC]

And is it not true that to earn a Triple Nickel coin at the Fed training institution one had to get all hits in 5 seconds or better?

[HCM]

And is it not true that to earn a Triple Nickel coin at the Fed training institution one had to get all hits in 5 seconds or better?

Yes, and it was considered a significant accomplishment.

[JHC]

Yes, and it was considered a significant accomplishment.

I consider it a massive accomplishment since the first time I tried this several years ago. It was futile then. Looking forward to giving it another go.

[SLG]

That's why its called the triple nickel and not the double nickel...:-)

Just shot this from my concealment set up.

4.37 secs
10 hits.
G22 with JM AIWB rig.

[GJM]

That's why its called the triple nickel and not the double nickel...:-)

Just shot this from my concealment set up.

4.37 secs
10 hits.
G22 with JM AIWB rig.

Nice run! Can you leave it set up until I come over and shoot it, I don't have five target stands in any one place.

[SLG]

Well...I just looked my notes over again, and now I'm not sure about my time. I shot a FAST and a Triple Nickel. One was 4.37, the other was 4.57. I thought the Nickel was the .37, but now I'm not sure. I need to take better practice notes...

[MVS]

Have never tried this before. I like it as it works a couple of things I need a lot of work on, target transitions and surprise reloads. It also works a couple of things that always need improvement, the draw and trigger speed.

Start position (concealed or duty) Concealed, sweatshirt.
Time 6.82
Number of hits 10
Make and model of gun and holster Gen 4 G17 Fricke Archangel

YMMV, but this is definitely the type of drill that I am slower on when using the RMR gun. Iron sights were scheduled for this range session, but I grabbed the RDS gun for a couple of runs just to compare. It added about 1 second average to my time.

[JHC]

I think when I tried this a few years back I was chasing too much sight picture. 5 yds to big target I will try just shooting an index.

[HopetonBrown]

Fun. Took 3 tries to pass.

Start position: concealed
Time: 4.85
Number of hits: 10
Make and model of gun and holster: G3 G17, JMCK OWB (http://www.jmcustomkydex.com/p/OWB.html)

[JHC]

HUGE fun! No coin for me today! But interesting.



Gen 4 G17 from OWB; many runs!
1st - 5.36 clean 1.03 to first shot with a sketchy reload
2nd - 4.60 only 8 hits because I only loaded up 8!
3rd - 4.93 1.13 to first hit but 1 delta. (at this point I suddenly felt for sure I'd shoot a coin ;) )
4th - 5.82 1.00 to first hit with 1 delta and a double clutched reload
5th - 4.91 1.07 to first hit with 1 delta (concern and doubt started)
6th - 5.28 1.04 to first hit but 1 delta and a full on trigger freeze
7th - called this my last one final exam 4.89 0.99 to first hit but 1 delta

Then I ran it once with

Gen 4 G26
4.51 0.90 to first hit and ONE DELTA!

The faster visuals and handling of the G26 were felt dramatically.

[JHC]

I had to go back out today for this one. I felt after yesterday I had the speed but was slightly off controlling the pistol so today I ran it with the RTF2 G19 which locks in tighter. First I warmed up on some reloads though.

RTF2 G19 worn OWB

5.01 clean

4.66 clean 1.02 first hit, 1.68 reload/hit.

[Talionis]

I had to go back out today for this one. I felt after yesterday I had the speed but was slightly off controlling the pistol so today I ran it with the RTF2 G19 which locks in tighter. First I warmed up on some reloads though.

RTF2 G19 worn OWB

5.01 clean

4.66 clean 1.02 first hit, 1.68 reload/hit.

Pretty sporty!

[JHC]

I learned a gamer trick I think. Today I faced target one square on and shot the rest transitioning right. Yesterday I was centered on the five. If the real test requires the center position then I cheated. Fast first to my far left yesterday threw a few deltas wide.

[Talionis]

I learned a gamer trick I think. Today I faced target one square on and shot the rest transitioning right. Yesterday I was centered on the five. If the real test requires the center position then I cheated. Fast first to my far left yesterday threw a few deltas wide.

I am not seeing an appreciable difference in your draw times, which should be the only potential change from what you describe. Did you change your engagement order too? If so, how were you shooting it before? I say this because as a gamer, I almost always prefer to orient my body in the center of a target array, and sweep them from either direction (very slight preference for left to right).

[JHC]

I am not seeing an appreciable difference in your draw times, which should be the only potential change from what you describe. Did you change your engagement order too? If so, how were you shooting it before? I say this because as a gamer, I almost always prefer to orient my body in the center of a target array, and sweep them from either direction (very slight preference for left to right).

Same engagement order.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/78036189@N07/18081340592/in/dateposted-public/

I've been starting very quick for me and going left first threw most of my deltas in T1 and T2.

Also I have a theory that shorter G19 mags insert faster and surer than a longer G17 mag. Could be my "software". Today I used 19 mags and used a 19 mag for my G26 reload yesterday.

[SLG]

I'd have to check, but I believe the test requires a centered start position.

ETA: Just checked the rules. You do have to be centered.

[JHC]

I'd have to check, but I believe the test requires a centered start position.

ETA: Just checked the rules. You do have to be centered.

Thanks, I'm not surprised really.

[HopetonBrown]

1.02 first hit

Wow, that's a smokin' draw from concealment.

[JHC]

Wow, that's a smokin' draw from concealment.

It sure would have been! If I had. Lol I missed another memo.

There's always next weekend.

[HopetonBrown]

Even if not, still a great draw, especially from a concealment rig.

[HCM]

Same engagement order.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/78036189@N07/18081340592/in/dateposted-public/

Also I have a theory that shorter G19 mags insert faster and surer than a longer G17 mag. Could be my "software". Today I used 19 mags and used a 19 mag for my G26 reload yesterday.

Likely a software issue. I was having the same issue with 17 mags. After years with shorter USPC and P229 mags I found I was gripping the 17 mags low, giving me less control resulting in slower and less consistent reloads. Ensuring I'm gripping the whole mag with my index finger tip to the top round took care of the issue.

[MVS]

Same engagement order.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/78036189@N07/18081340592/in/dateposted-public/

I..

For some reason it freaked me out when you just left the picture and a shot rang out. Other than that, nice.

[2alpha-down0]

Start position: Concealed
Time: 4.75, 4.90, 4.96
Hits: 30/30
Gun/holster: M&P9, JMCK AIWB

Okay, so I probably screwed the setup on this. All of the uprights for the range's target stands were locked up, and we only had two sets, so I had to improvise. As a result I didn't get the required 18" between targets; it's close if you measure C-zone to C-zone. I was also starting with feet squared to the center target, but upper body turned toward the left. I guess from reading through the thread that that's a no-no.

For scheduling the reload, we tried with mags loaded both 9-1 and 8-2. Both myself and my cameraman found the 8-2 to be faster and flow smoother for whatever reason, even though the 9-1 should be faster by allowing you to game the drill with a sloppy support hand grip after the reload.

My three-in-a-row sub-5 runs. First run I had a bit of a hiccup in my cadence on T4. Second run saw a slow mag insertion; video shows a near-miss at the mag well. Third was smoothest but also the slowest overall (of those three, anyway).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvPmpSunms0

[JHC]

I will try 8-2 this weekend. From concealment and centered. I chose 2-8 to reduce my odds of being surprised by my own planned reloads. ;)

[JHC]

For some reason it freaked me out when you just left the picture and a shot rang out. Other than that, nice.

Lol "Not another delta!"

[GJM]

From a gaming perspective, why not load 9 rounds, shoot 8 and do a slide forward reload as you transition to the last target? That avoids a slide lock reload, and allows you to transition during the reload.

[Talionis]

Start position: Concealed
Time: 4.75, 4.90, 4.96
Hits: 30/30
Gun/holster: M&P9, JMCK AIWB

Okay, so I probably screwed the setup on this. All of the uprights for the range's target stands were locked up, and we only had two sets, so I had to improvise. As a result I didn't get the required 18" between targets; it's close if you measure C-zone to C-zone. I was also starting with feet squared to the center target, but upper body turned toward the left. I guess from reading through the thread that that's a no-no.

For scheduling the reload, we tried with mags loaded both 9-1 and 8-2. Both myself and my cameraman found the 8-2 to be faster and flow smoother for whatever reason, even though the 9-1 should be faster by allowing you to game the drill with a sloppy support hand grip after the reload.

My three-in-a-row sub-5 runs. First run I had a bit of a hiccup in my cadence on T4. Second run saw a slow mag insertion; video shows a near-miss at the mag well. Third was smoothest but also the slowest overall (of those three, anyway).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvPmpSunms0

9-1 should be appreciably slower because you are adding an extra transition between targets then executing the reload and reacquiring the same target.

[Mr_White]

9-1 should be appreciably slower because you are adding an extra transition between targets then executing the reload and reacquiring the same target.

I agree. When I shoot the Triple Nickel, I like shooting 8-2 myself.

[2alpha-down0]

9-1 should be appreciably slower because you are adding an extra transition between targets then executing the reload and reacquiring the same target.

Good point, didn't think of that.

I've never been known for my stage planning. :p

[Lon]

Shot this a few times today. I shot 2, slide lock reload, 8. I thought the reload was supposed to be from slide lock. I'll shoot it again tomorrow and see what the difference is with a speed reload.

Duty Rig
Sig P229R 9mm loaded with Gold Dot 124 +p
Best times were 5.08 and 4.41, clean.
Holster is an ALS with the 6006 addition on my search warrant duty belt rig.

[Kyle Reese]

Shot this a few times today. I shot 2, slide lock reload, 8. I thought the reload was supposed to be from slide lock. I'll shoot it again tomorrow and see what the difference is with a speed reload.

Duty Rig
Sig P229R 9mm loaded with Gold Dot 124 +p
Best times were 5.08 and 4.41, clean.
Holster is an ALS with the 6006 addition on my search warrant duty belt rig.

That's great shooting, Lon.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Lon]

Thanks. Today was the first time I've shot anything since I had cataract surgery on the 14th. Its Qualification week at work. After we got done with quals me and a couple other instructors shot the Triple Nickle a few times.

It's amazing what being able to actually see clearly does for your shooting. I actually see a red dot now in my micro T1 instead of a starburst. My iron sights (HD's) are not quite perfectly in focus without glasses, but much, much better than they were.

[rsa-otc]

M&P 40
Open top OWB holster
tactical vest:

Three Runs:
1 - 5.77 one miss
2- 5.84 Clean
3 - 6.25 Clean

[Clobbersaurus]

Girsan Regard Compact 9mm
AIWB Holster, Golf Shirt
Slow!:cool: 6.83 Sec
6A, 4C - I thought one may have been out, but after looking at the video it looks like it is a C. This was my first run, just after shooting my first cold F.A.S.T. of the day.
Subsequent runs were: 6.42 (5A, 5C), 6.39 (7A, 3C)

(I'm not sure why the thumbnail is coming up this way but the video works).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBHhsdB0wuU

[JHC]

Got all trued up this time with a cover garment and centered on the 5 targets. All G26 from OWB. No luck on the 5 second threshold. I either muffed a reload, short stroked a trigger or threw a delta. I tried the load 8, reload with 2 for a finish. I saw 5.58s, 5.46 etc.

Here was a funny muffed one. On target four I thought I'd hit a dead primer which I find once in a while with Monarch steel and misdiagnosed as such and removed my support hand to rack the slide, then realized I'd short stroked the trigger; took the shot SHO then reloaded to finish it in 5.58. But the hits were good.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/78036189@N07/18342939035/in/dateposted-public/


After becoming utterly frustrated with running error free at that pace I tried just 5 singles to each headbox and shot those in 3.48 and 3.23. Maybe that's a fast low prob drill someday.

[Mr_White]

Did this one at 6am this morning after setting up for class.

First run was 3.95/10 hits, second run was 3.73/10 hits. Gen3 G34 out of a Keeper.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjfl4t4BAbQ

[JHC]

Smokin'! My son's gotta see this. Lol

[JM Campbell]

Stud muffin for sure. Excellent shooting!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[nwhpfan]

Glock 34 w/ Surefire X300 (stock) Dawson .105 front .145 Charger rear
Safariland ALS Duty Holster
AE Nelson horizontal mag pouch



4.65 2 C's. https://youtu.be/n4z0oFpErgc .98 first 2.05 reload :( My trigger finger misses the trigger safety.

I ran this 3 times prior with my USPSA Production Gear (Blade Tech DOH and CR Speed pouches) and the G34 I shoot in Production. It does have a Zev trigger spring and striker block spring; Ghost 4.5 striker spring with extended and lightened striker, and a Ghost 3.5 connector. My times were:

3.65 2 C (.85 1st 1.22 reload)
3.87 1C (.90 1st 1.29 reload)
4.19 clean (.99 1st 1.44 reload).

So the little holes... I re-use these from .223 targets. They seem bigger in the video but their not worth taping to me...

[Mr_White]

Very nice!

[JHC]

Glock 34 w/ Surefire X300 (stock) Dawson .105 front .145 Charger rear
Safariland ALS Duty Holster
AE Nelson horizontal mag pouch



4.65 2 C's. https://youtu.be/n4z0oFpErgc .98 first 2.05 reload :( My trigger finger misses the trigger safety.

I ran this 3 times prior with my USPSA Production Gear (Blade Tech DOH and CR Speed pouches) and the G34 I shoot in Production. It does have a Zev trigger spring and striker block spring; Ghost 4.5 striker spring with extended and lightened striker, and a Ghost 3.5 connector. My times were:

3.65 2 C (.85 1st 1.22 reload)
3.87 1C (.90 1st 1.29 reload)
4.19 clean (.99 1st 1.44 reload).

So the little holes... I re-use these from .223 targets. They seem bigger in the video but their not worth taping to me...

Reload mag was snapped IN? Nice!

[nwhpfan]

Reload mag was snapped IN? Nice!

It was....if you watch in the vid you can see how I drive my hand down and "pop" it open. I've tried open top before but I've had a few jump out, fall out.... so whereas it's slower; at least they are there....