Guns for Girls

[WDW]

I'd like to see a list of guns carried by our significant others. My wife, after a long & exhaustive search, has settled on the P99C AS. It's small, high quality, and possesses the safety characteristics of DA/SA autos as well as the benefits of a striker fired system. Truly one of my favorite guns.
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab217/10mm4me/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsqv7kmal1.jpg (http://s865.photobucket.com/user/10mm4me/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsqv7kmal1.jpg.html)

[Kevin B.]

My wife confiscated my P7M8 and refuses to consider shooting or arrying anything else.

[WDW]

My wife confiscated my P7M8 and refuses to consider shooting or arrying anything else.

That's not a bad thing. Anything that gets them shooting!

[Kyle Reese]

Walther PPQ M1.

[Tamara]

Guns for Girls

I'd like to see a list of guns carried by our significant others.

What're you trying to say? 3392

[WDW]

What're you trying to say? 3392

I would say you are certainly the atypical female shooter....and that's not a bad thing

[Tamara]

Well, that joke fell flat. :/

[Chuck Haggard]

My wife prefers her Kahr PM9 and a Taurus TCP .32, flips between what she carries depending on clothing and mood.

My daughter greatly prefers shooting Glock 9mms to any other handgun, but carries a .380 because she dresses like a girl.

[ranger]

Glock 26 in car and Glock 42 in purse.

[Colt191145lover]

S&W M&P 9c on her hip and a S&W model 60 Ladysmith in her purse. Glock 17 in the car ... I love her :cool:

[LSP972]

The wife refuses to part with her P30 LEM .40 in the purse; P2000 LEM .40 to hand in her ride.

My girls each have a .38 J frame of one sort or another. One carries hers religiously; the other two, when they think about it… maybe.

.

[olstyn]

My wife, after a long & exhaustive search, has settled on the P99C AS. It's small, high quality, and possesses the safety characteristics of DA/SA autos as well as the benefits of a striker fired system. Truly one of my favorite guns.

Heck, I'm a man and that's my every day carry, albeit mine's a few years older than your wife's. My wife, when she does carry, carries a PK380. I know it's not the best option out there, but thankfully it's at least been reliable with her carry ammo, if not always the cheaper stuff and/or reloads, and it's what she's comfortable with.

[JodyH]

PPQ M1 9mm for competition, M&P Shield 9mm for carry.

[Odin Bravo One]

M&P 9mm full size. With Tiffany Blue highlights.

[CCT125US]

Shield 9 is the most recent. She has freaky tiny Keebler elfin hands and has trouble with trigger reach and hand fatigue. She was drilling the 2" dot at 7yds with ease last trip. No fatigue reported.

[ReverendMeat]

CZ-75 Compact for the range, SIG P238 Blackwood for carry.

[farscott]

My wife carries a 9x19 P30 LEM and a S&W M342PD. She also has spare P30s and Centennial J-frames for matches and practice. She is the one who got me to try the P30. My daughter carries a S&W 3913LS and her Colt Detective Special with hammer shroud and Tyler T-grip. I would say that more often than not my wife has her P30 while my daughter has her DS.

[Tensaw]

Wife has the Walther PPS for the house; LCP for the purse. College age daughter has the Walther PPQ in .22LR for when she is at home alone. The 14 year old girl daughter is learning to shoot everything from her 20 gauge semi-auto to any of the 9mm Glocks. She will shoot her first match (GSSF) at the end of this month.

ETA: It seems to me, very important to give them what they want, and what they are comfortable with.

[Clay]

Gen4 Glock 26 or Ruger LCP. Mostly in a purse, but sometimes IWB.

[Robinson]

S&W 457 converted to DAO and given a tune-up by the Performance Center.

[jondoe297]

She carries a Glock 22 on duty. Her preferred personal weapon is a S&W M&P9.

[David S.]

After struggling to find something she likes, my wife just fell in love with the VP9 at a recent HiTS class.

Darn you Wayne and Darryl. . . this could get expensive. ;)

[RevolverRob]

Remington 870 in 20-gauge. Within the first fifteen minutes it was like she has been blasting clay pigeons and bad guys her entire life. That's for the house.

For out and about Kahr CW9/CM9.

-Rob

[JDM]

My girlfriend keeps a G19 handy, and really, really enjoys my Benelli M1 when we shoot long guns.

[LSP972]

After struggling to find something she likes, my wife just fell in love with the VP9 at a recent HiTS class.

Darn you Wayne and Darryl. . . this could get expensive. ;)

Welcome to the dangers of taking your bride to a class. Tom Givens cost me a whole shit-load of money when he referred to 9mm as ".380 Long Rifle"; my wife took that to heart and demanded to immediately upgrade to .40.

.

[Haraise]

My girlfriend keeps a G19 handy, and really, really enjoys my Benelli M1 when we shoot long guns.

Why does she like the Benelli so much? Recoil isn't too harsh?

[JDM]

Why does she like the Benelli so much? Recoil isn't too harsh?

I suspect the brisk recoil is why she enjoys it.

Tangent: I don't find the M1's recoil any more unpleasant than any other auto loading shotgun I've shot. With proper push-pull, it doesn't really bother me.

[TGS]

Don't know if she "qualifies" for this thread, as she can't carry given our current residence...but she's expressed interest in carrying when we eventually move somewhere where it's permitted. Since May 6th I can't even carry anymore. :(

However, she owns and enjoys a SIG P226 Mk25. She determined a SIG P239, OWB, would work well as a CCW for many of her outfits as a loose blouse during warm months or jacket during cold months will cover it up nicely.

She's done some research on various holsters for tighter fitting outfits, and found that a mouse gun in a Flashbang would not conceal very well. So it seems that whenever she'd be able to conceal on body, she can carry as big as a P239 so she might as well. On-Body CCW does not seem to be an option when she's wearing a t-shirt, and she has expressed more than abhorrent disgust with the designs/looks of every CCW purse she's looked at........this, from a girl who wears a lockable security purse made for travel from bankers bag materials....it's not like she walks around with a Coach bag, or even owns one. So, for us guys who might not necessarily understand why women think most CCW purses are so ugly, I think that's at least a good demonstration of how bad they are.

[Father of 3]

Wife has recently adopted my G17. I came home one day not too long after some suspicious activity on our street and she was watering the flowers, G17 open carry.

Honorable mention: While I have tried to convince her otherwise, mom carries a Para Warthog in 45 ACP and is a better shot with it than I am!

[pax]

Threads like this led directly to the creation of an over-the-top lacy, pink, obnoxiously girly website about handguns. That was my way of trying to kick a stupidly offensive stereotype about gun owners right in the fork. It did not help, though. Women who post in forums like this one are still functionally invisible, and women who speak up and point out that they are in fact part of the membership base still get called "atypical" or worse. Even though women are one of the fastest-growing demographics in the shooting community per the NSSF, and even though women comprise more than half of all newly issued concealed carry permits.

My significant other does not enjoy firearms like all us manly men do.

pax

[Tamara]

3394

Word.

[Haraise]

Threads like this led directly to the creation of an over-the-top lacy, pink, obnoxiously girly website about handguns. That was my way of trying to kick a stupidly offensive stereotype about gun owners right in the fork. It did not help, though. Women who post in forums like this one are still functionally invisible, and women who speak up and point out that they are in fact part of the membership base still get called "atypical" or worse. Even though women are one of the fastest-growing demographics in the shooting community per the NSSF, and even though women comprise more than half of all newly issued concealed carry permits.

My significant other does not enjoy firearms like all us manly men do.

pax

Thank you. Atypical or worse.

There's a reason a lot of the invisible people try to stay invisible... so what they say matters, so they're not marginalized, or treated that way. But that just keeps the problem going too. This boy's club is a huge catch-22.

[JDM]

So, this thread is offensive somehow?

[jh9]

So, this thread is offensive somehow?

Offensive is kind of a loaded term. It's hard to tell (especially in text) if someone saying "offensive" in a sarcastic PCUish way or if they're using it in the Merriam Webster sense of the word.

Having seen this conversation, to the letter, play out on another forum this was the takeaway:

People might not be "offended" in the PCU sense of the word, but repeated disregard for a core part of someone's identity tends to put them off. It doesn't have to be on purpose, and it didn't even register that what a lot of people were saying had been taken an an ill manner. In large part because nothing said was ever really wasn't meant to be insulting.

If you want to put the shoe on the other foot, try a politics analogy. Assume you're relatively conservative. Now assume you frequent Widget Forum. Only 99% of the inhabitants of Widget Forum are Berkley Liberals and a not uncommon occurrence are nuggets like "Yeah, and Bush didn't like about 9/11. I'm sure WidgetCo is telling the truth about their recall."

Taken individually the remarks are all throwaway comments not intended to be offensive. Taken collectively, it's kind of grating. If you say anything, the response is usually "it's just a joke bro, lighten up". Because no single comment on its own is that bad no one in the Berkley Liberal crowd sees much of a problem. After a while, though, it becomes more and more annoying.

How does this effect your participation at Widget Forum?

[Tamara]

So, this thread is offensive somehow?

jh9 got it in one.

[olstyn]

jh9 got it in one.

Apologies if my post contributed to the negative aspect of the thread. pax and jh9's posts definitely put me in mind of my wife's characterization of the engineering world and how, at most companies, at least, it's a horrible old boys club. Apparently, as a woman, you have to either put up with the absurd assumptions that you don't know what you're doing or become a cast iron bitch in order to make it, neither of which is what she wants to do. Frankly, I hate that such situations exist at all, especially in the context of intellectual pursuits, where there is NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL between men's and women's abilities, no matter how much some people try to make it seem that there is.

Unfortunately, we men sometimes forget about that stuff, because we're not the ones living it, and then we shove our feet straight into our mouths as a result. Sorry. :(

[Lost River]

4" Model 15 S&W .38 for bedside duty
2" J frame Model 442 .38 for purse
6" Colt Official Police .38 for Kitchen

[SLG]

I guess I don't see how this is grating. The OP didn't ask for recommendations for girls, he asked to see the guns that PF's female significant others carry. Most of the responses were guns that guys also carry, kinda showing that PF's members don't have "girlie guns." My wife carries and shoots the same kinds of guns I do, just usually smaller versions, since she is a fair bit smaller. Maybe the term "girls" was grating, since we are mostly talking about women, but I usually chalk that up to the part of the country the speaker is from. My liberal family and friends from back east would likely take offense, but here in the midwest and west, women seem to use the term a lot, and don't take offense when others do.

When members do ask for recommendations for women, though some are quick to recommend a specific brand, there are usually a number of posts saying "ask her", or "let her try a bunch out and pick one."

Maybe I'm just a sexist, but there are significant differences between men and women, and that is very true about shooting. I didn't think so, until my wife taught me how to teach female shooters. If a woman wants to shoot at a high level, learning how from a guy is usually a waste of time, and most female shooters don't seem to get it either. Tough situation to be in, but is is clearly the truth. Just like there are only a handful of firearms instructors I would go to or recommend for men, there are even fewer for women. It is what it is, doesn't matter what unit they came from.

RANT OFF, sorry.

[GardoneVT]

"Maybe I'm just a sexist, but there are significant differences between men and women, and that is very true about shooting. "

The Big Difference is that women focus on getting the job done of getting hits on target, manly perceptions and notions be damned.

Males, sadly, go to the range first as a display of material prowess . Hitting the target and practicing safety is secondary to showing off their latest FDE Glock and Kimber Pro Whatever.

Worse, there's a disturbing level of ingrained sexism whenever a woman assumes the firing line. If you doubt that, watch what happens when a female shooter beats her male companion /date at the range. The guy sulks and then the excuses start flowing for why his girlfriend/fiancee outshot him.

[pax]

SLG,

"Offensive" is -- as jh9 pointed out -- a really strong and loaded term. It's kind of a thought-stopper.

For the past 15 or 16 years, I have enjoyed the strong support and encouragement of good men who want to see me succeed as a shooter, as a writer, and (later) as a firearms instructor. If anyone wants to claim that the firearms training community as a whole does not welcome women, I can point to my own very positive experiences to tell them they're mistaken. For many years as a shooter, as a writer and an editor, and as a full time professional defensive handgun trainer, I have found the men of the shooting community to be good people almost without exception.

That doesn't mean y'all are perfect.

For the same past 15 or 16 years, I have participated in multiple gun discussion forums -- actively in some cases, a little more quietly in others. During that time, I've seen hundreds of women post a message or two on any given board, and then drift away without becoming serious contributors to the community. Some last as long as a year, but most last barely a month or two at the most. Some loudly announce the reasons they're leaving, but most don't. Most just stop posting, lurk in the background for awhile, and then move on.

There are reasons for that. One of those reasons is the constant and pernicious assumption that all serious members of the forum are guys. Or, you know, atypical women. Not real, genuine, feminine people; just either a guy or a not-really-normal woman. Another is the constant and pernicious assumption that all women are always beginning shooters, inexperienced and untrained, reluctant and clumsy, uncertain around tools and unfamiliar with shooting mechanics. It's almost impossible for a woman to be taken seriously as a shooter on a discussion board, unless she first proves her chops ... over and over and over again. As Tamara has.

And none of this is deliberate.

None of it is mean-spirited or rude or even "offensive" in the sense of someone setting out to annoy other people. Or being 'sexist' in a negative way. It's simply assumptions from good people who haven't thought it through and don't know any better.

That doesn't make it any less grating, as a cumulative effect. And it doesn't make women-as-a-whole any more likely to enjoy the discussions so much they stick around for the long haul. (Tamara is indeed atypical in that sense. But not because she's competent with firearms, and not because she likes to shoot.)

For myself, and to answer the OP's intended question: Although I don't have a wife and never will, I enjoy carrying and shooting my Glock 26, and I enjoy shooting and carrying my Glock 19. I have a safe full of other handgun brands and types, and a holster collection that I'd wager outnumbers that of anyone else here.

Maybe I should start my own thread: "My husband just got a gun. What guns do men like to shoot?"

pax,

Kathy

[runcible]

BOM,

Well, while the topic description of "I'd like to see a list of guns carried by our significant others," would be benign to most; the title-proper of "Guns for Girls" uses a pretty explicit dimunitive when the context is one's presumably adult partner. Given the initial emphasis on female partners of the readership, the title\description combination could be read by many as excluding any female readership themselves. In many venues, this follows-on with a range of paternalistic remarks from one part of the debate, but generally without inviting the subject population themselves to participate.

[SLG]

pax,

I can understand that, thanks for explaining.

The only thing I might disagree with is the type of thread. The reason guys might ask what other guys' wives carry, is because there are WAY more guys on here than women. That will probably always be true, because though I don't find anything strange about a woman who shoots, a smaller percentage of women shoot compared to men. An even smaller percentage know what they are doing, so I do think that makes firearm competent women atypical, in the honest sense of the word. Few men are truly competent, fewer women still. A very small handful of women can shoot anywhere near the abilities of the top 10% of the men. Of course, that leaves 90% of men unable to hang as well. Where you draw the competence line is up to you, but my interests and my wife's interests lie at the top end.

[Tamara]

I guess I don't see how this is grating.

SLG,

Of course you don't. Like jh9 pointed out; you wouldn't notice it, and it's nothing that was intended to be grating, insulting, or demeaning.


The OP didn't ask for recommendations for girls, he asked to see the guns that PF's female significant others carry.

The OP asked the assembly as a whole what our female significant others carry. The unstated assumption being the assembly as a whole here at p-f.com are dudes (and straight ones at that! ;) ) I made a little joke in response, but it fell flat.

Now, generally on gun fora over the years, I've just learned to put a sock in it and just roll with it when this shit comes up, but if Kathy was gonna speak up, I wasn't going to leave her hanging out there all by herself. I think the world of Kathy, and she's absolutely right, here. Frankly she ...and every other high-profile woman in the shooting industry... puts up with shit that you guys don't even notice (not through any fault of your own, it's just not aimed at you!) and we usually just keep our cakeholes shut about it because for a long time, that was the only way to get taken seriously in the boys' clubhouse. And let's not kid ourselves, that's what the shooting industry largely was and (mostly) still is. But we're trying to grow this industry into other demographics and I think you know someone heavily involved in that effort. :)


Maybe the term "girls" was grating...

Nah. :)


When members do ask for recommendations for women, though some are quick to recommend a specific brand, there are usually a number of posts saying "ask her", or "let her try a bunch out and pick one."

Maybe I'm just a sexist, but there are significant differences between men and women...

Yes, but the point of those responses is that there are not only significant differences between men and women, there are also significant differences between women and women, just like between men and men. There's no more a "good gun for a woman" than there is a "good gun for a man". Three women have responded to this thread who range in height, hand size, shooting experience, daily dress, et cetera. The ideal carry gun for someone who's 5'2" and wears body-conscious clothing and spends a lot of time in NPEs is not the ideal gun for someone who's 5'12" and dresses like a hobo and works from home. (Unless an agency mandates they carry the same gun, which is like mandating everybody wear a Size 10 boot, but that's a topic for another day. ;) )


For what it's worth, my Significant Other carries a Les Baer TRS, and he seems to like it a lot. :)


EDIT: Shit, I typed too long. Now I gotta go back and read and see what's been OBE. :/

[JodyH]

Sheesh...
The nits people choose to pick.

[Tamara]

Sheesh...
The nits people choose to pick.

EDIT: Offensive, flippant retort edited.

Seriously, Jody, there's a grownup conversation happening here. SLG made very legitimate points; Kathy replied likewise. There's a chance for people to learn from each other here and grow as people and shit, so why don't we see if that happens?

[SLG]

Tam,

Like pax, thanks for explaining. I do get what you are saying, but I guess I still see the difference as representative of the population. In the english language (as I know you and everyone else here know) the masculine encompasses the feminine. How many women are there on PF? Does an OP have to say, "Ladies and gentlemen" every time they ask a question, or can they ask the question in a way that helps show what they are interested in? I assume that the OP in this case has a female significant other, and wanted to hear from others in a similar position.

As far as women being different from men, and one woman being different from another woman, of course, and I'm sorry if it sounded like I thought anything else.

Everyday at work I have to deal with female shooters who are marginal, because they have been taught incorrectly from the beginning. None of those women are less capable than anyone else, they just have years of poor training to overcome. As do the men. I think its instructive though, that with the same training, the men manage to do better. Once you teach the women how they need to do things, they shoot right up there with the men. I guess my point is that poor training is still poor training, but since it comes from a man's perspective, men manage better with it. And, until we have more high level female shooters out there, the training that the rest get will lag behind compared to what is available to men. Of course, some men do know how to teach women, as do some women. Just not that many.

As a man, I find it interesting to hear what other enthusiasts wives carry. And by wives, of course I mean girlfriends, friends, etc... I feel like I'm digging a hole at this point, so I'll stop. I try to take the female perspective into account in most things that I do, so maybe I just need to try harder in this regard.

FWIW, I got your joke right away:-)

[BK14]

Hey Tamara/PAX,

The topic of teaching a S/O to shoot (competently) has been on my mind a lot since my girlfriend started showing some interest in my shooting. With the points that were brought out, on ways that guys can inadvertently offend the women in their lives, and the different ways of training women to shoot, I was wondering if you all had any pointers? I want to do it the right way, and in a way that doesn't come off offensive. I also know that you are both competent shooters from everything I've seen on this board, so I'd love to hear a "how to do it right" kind of post offering up some tips from reputable sources like yourselves.


Just like there are only a handful of firearms instructors I would go to or recommend for men, there are even fewer for women.

Any trainers in particular that jump out at you which you would recommend?

Thanks everyone,
Cole

[Haraise]

Hey Tamara/PAX,

The topic of teaching a S/O to shoot (competently) has been on my mind a lot since my girlfriend started showing some interest in my shooting. With the points that were brought out, on ways that guys can inadvertently offend the women in their lives, and the different ways of training women to shoot, I was wondering if you all had any pointers? I want to do it the right way, and in a way that doesn't come off offensive. I also know that you are both competent shooters from everything I've seen on this board, so I'd love to hear a "how to do it right" kind of post offering up some tips from reputable sources like yourselves.



Any trainers in particular that jump out at you which you would recommend?

Thanks everyone,
Cole

I've had great experiences with Ms. (Debbie) Keehart and Ms. (Kippi) Leatham, entirely recommended. :)

ETA: First names, for looking up.

[BK14]

I've had great experiences with Ms. Keehart and Ms. Leatham, entirely recommended. :)

Thank you! I'm local to the Leathams, so I'll have to check into that, I didn't even know that she taught.

[Haraise]

If you're around the Phoenix area, send me a PM and I'd be happy to help you out as much as I can on that. :)

[SLG]

BK,

Rob and Kip are very high on my list for performance type shooting. Tom Givens is more defensive oriented (I believe), but he has an excellent track record of teaching women to fight. Insights also does a good job with women, both defensive and performance. John and Greg in particular, I don't have much experience with the other instructors there. My wife and I really don't teach publicly, but if you are in the area sometime, I or we would be happy to help out, gratis.

Since you are in the Phoenix area, Rob or Kip are probably your best bet.

As far as offending students, that doesn't go over well with men or women, so that is not my area of concern in recommending an instructor. I'm more concerned that the teacher understand the physical differences, and how that will change things like stance and grip. A 5' 2" woman cannot stand and shoot like a 6' male USPSA GM. Copying him would be a waste.

[JodyH]

EDIT: Offensive, flippant retort edited.

Seriously, Jody, there's a grownup conversation happening here.
It's all cool and shit to make flippant "drive by" remarks in other threads... I'm looking at you Tamara.
But when someone feels some microaggressions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microaggression_theory) going on we all have to step on eggshells?
Did I accidently wander into a Tumblr discussion forum?

[jh9]

Sheesh...
The nits people choose to pick.

Coming from someone that will argue with a brick wall until it gives up in exasperation that's hilarious. :-P

[JodyH]

Genghis Khan school of debate. Submit or be relentlessly attacked.

[Tamara]

It's all cool and shit to make flippant "drive by" remarks in other threads... I'm looking at you Tamara.
But when someone feels some microaggressions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microaggression_theory) going on we all have to step on eggshells?
Did I accidently wander into a Tumblr discussion forum?

Yeah, Jody, you did. Shall we chat?

[JodyH]

When you grade me, do it with purple font, red is too aggressively threatening.

[jh9]

Genghis Khan school of debate. Submit or be relentlessly attacked.

https://i.imgur.com/EGnQu5H.gif

[Tamara]

When you grade me, do it with purple font, red is too aggressively threatening.

That was weak.

With a simple "yes" or "no", signify whether you really want to do this.

[JodyH]

To what end? I highly doubt it would be an illuminating, perspective shifting conversation from either side.
So.
No.

[Tamara]

nevah mind.

Jody's right; ain't nobody learnin' nothin' here.

[Tamara]

nevah mind.

[Hambo]

I don't want to take part in the pp. 4-6 discussion, but I really was interested in what and how women actually carry. My wife is working on this issue and like it or not she looks to me to dig up info. Can we split off the discussion of misogyny on gun forums part?

[Glenn E. Meyer]

None of it is mean-spirited or rude or even "offensive" in the sense of someone setting out to annoy other people. Or being 'sexist' in a negative way. It's simply assumptions from good people who haven't thought it through and don't know any better.

Hi Kathy: I think we discussed this once. The attitude we sometimes see is called 'benevolent sexism'. It implies an inferiority in some dimension for women and that men have to dominate them to take 'care' of them. That is common in the gun world (and of course, elsewhere).

I'm sure Tam and Kathy have a zillion anecdotes. I've seen idiots aplenty. At a local IDPA match, a very competent police or military woman (I forget) was handling a Beretta 92. An idiot comes up and says "You need a pink gun". She says - I shoot real guns. Idiots abound on gender and racial issues. One of our participants is an retired Marine colonel. He is not a standard WASP. So another idiot says - where are you from? Implying some lower form of foreigner (geez). The reply was: America.

Some good books by women on self-defense and gun control are full of examples of condescending attitudes.

http://www.amazon.com/Shooters-Myths-Realities-Americas-Cultures/dp/0195306449
Abigail A. Kohn - an anthropologist. Met her at an ASC meeting and dinner with Don Kates.

http://www.amazon.com/Real-Knockouts-Physical-Feminism-Self-Defense/dp/0814755771
Martha McCaughey

I agree that Insights does a great job for anyone. In my area, KRtraining.com does too.

[Haraise]

I don't want to take part in the pp. 4-6 discussion, but I really was interested in what and how women actually carry. My wife is working on this issue and like it or not she looks to me to dig up info. Can we split off the discussion of misogyny on gun forums part?

Pocket: Sig P238
Deep conceal: Springfield EMP AIWB
Normal conceal: 4.25" 9mm 2011 AIWB
Normal now: Open carry strong side 2011 + pocket P238 because AIWB makes me look like I have a belly. :/

[Colt191145lover]

I am actually very interested to learn about the two things going on in this thread , but I think they should be split off for better learning value and not detracting from one another.

[Byron]

Genghis Khan school of debate. Submit or be relentlessly attacked.
You joke, but it's utterly exhausting.

I've lost count of the number of times I've wandered into a thread and had something to say... until I saw you bombarding people. That's when I slowly back out of the thread because it just isn't worth it. I know that for any thoughtful point I try to compose, you'll respond with repeated attacks and insults. So I say "fuck it," and wander on to hopefully find another topic where you aren't thread-shitting.

I know I'm not the only person who feels this way, so congratulations on single-handedly decreasing thoughtful member participation in assorted threads.

P-F seems to be your free therapy where you just unleash your aggression on whoever dares to have a different opinion than you... or god forbid: people who are interested in a product that you think is dumb. Because everyone knows by this point that if you think a product is dumb, you'll spend no less than a dozen posts repeatedly saying so.

You seem to lack any ability to say "I disagree with you, and here's why." Instead it's "You're stupid / You're a whiner / You're an idiot / You're a sucker / I'm awesomer than you / blablabla."

[TGS]

I vote that:

1) We have a thread where people can ask what their SOs are carrying without other people getting but hurt over it
2) We have a thread to talk about how off-putting cis males are with their privilege and sexism
3) We have another airing of the grievances to cover how much of a toolbag...no, toolbox...that Jody is.

[WDW]

Didn't mean to offend anyone or imply anything. Just curious what females on this forum and those associated with other members carried or shot. Thought it might be a good resource for new female shooters or those looking for something different. Like it or not, a lot of guns are not female friendly or ideal. That's just a fact. Females have smaller hands & different body types, unless you're Rosie O'Donnell.

[SLG]

Females have smaller hands & different body types, unless you're Rosie O'Donnell.

I thought we were talking about females. Now I'm confused.

[Haraise]

Didn't mean to offend anyone or imply anything. Just curious what females on this forum and those associated with other members carried or shot. Thought it might be a good resource for new female shooters or those looking for something different. Like it or not, a lot of guns are not female friendly or ideal. That's just a fact. Females have smaller hands & different body types, unless you're Rosie O'Donnell.

Guys, no one is arguing women have the exact same physical features as men. That's a strawman of an argument.

The point was about the assumptions here. Not everyone on the forum is a straight male (let's see the girl guns of our significant others), and acting like it's boys only club time pushes out those who don't conform.

[WDW]

I'm out. Apparently everything said these days is to be torn apart by the PC monster. Peace. Probably best to just shut this one down.

[Tamara]

Just curious what females on this forum and those associated with other members carried or shot.

Then that's what you should have asked.


1) We have a thread where people can ask what their SOs are carrying without other people getting but hurt over it
2) We have a thread to talk about how off-putting cis males are with their privilege and sexism

Piss off. :)

3398

[Nephrology]

I'm out. Apparently everything said these days is to be torn apart by the PC monster. Peace. Probably best to just shut this one down.

I don't think there is a PC monster in this thread. I think Tam and Kathy are doing a very decent job trying to explain a position that is under-represented in the gun community. Some people are doing a very good job trying to listen, and others are not. I hope the thread stays open and that we continue to have a civil discussion that does honor to the high standard of discourse I have come to expect from this website.

[Chance]

Kathy, your comments about assumptions of forum membership are spot on, and I do this all the time. Now that I’ve had some time to think about why I do this, I’d like to share my insights. I have no idea if this can be generalized to anyone else, but here is why I personally find myself doing this. And I’m not talking right at Kathy, I’m just thinking out loud.

I’ve been on the world wide web since the world wide web was a thing (I was 10 in 1994). Going through school in a small-ish town, my friends, all of whom were in my demographic, were also on the Internet. This created my following assumption: people on the Internet are white males, who share my interests, most of my life experiences, and are my age (whatever those happen to be to be at that specific moment).

Has this assumption ever been correct? Of course not – it’s always been wildly incorrect. However, that was my formative assumption, and to this day, when I see text on the Internet, my mental picture is that it came from a white male, my age, with my interests, who shares most of my life experiences.

I’ve always known that my assumption was just that, an assumption, and prone to not being accurate. However, unless something glaringly apparent modifies that assumption, I naturally adhere to it. Glenn can probably name whatever phenomenon this is.

This baseline assumption plays out in different ways. Tamara has a photo of herself, and it’s apparent she’s female. This isn’t a paradigm-shattering revelation, I just make a mental note of it. DocGKR has “doc” in his handle, which suggests he’s in the medical profession. I check his profile, and make another mental note. These are two examples of evident qualifiers.

On the other hand, GardoneVT has a silhouette for a profile photo. I had no idea he was black, until he stated it explicitly in a post. Again, not some paradigm-shattering revelation, just something I make a note of. Sensei has a profile photo that is not him, and there was nothing to indicate his background. I finally read enough of his posts to make it apparent he was a medical professional, at which point, I checked his profile. Another mental note.

I could name other examples regarding age, shared life experiences, et cetera. I actually like to learn a little about who I'm talking to, and I regularly check people's bios. Some people have an extensive bio, others say nothing, but no one has a full physical description, or life story, and I'm not suggesting that they should.

I’m not really sure what effect this has on the way I interact with people, as I’ve never given it much prior thought. I definitely know that it shifts my perception of someone’s insight when they discuss a certain subject.

Anyways, conclude mental wandering.

[TDA]

Fools rush in where angels fear to tread (This is the spot where you should delete your post instead of going on to "but...") but... I can't be the only one who has been seeing the "what gun should I get my wife/daughter/girlfriend" thread and then the "perhaps the lady should try some stuff and make up her own mind" response on gunboards for... 15 years? There's no cookie for saying that anymore. Normally at this point I spin off into a thing about the 3913LS being a pinnacle of pistol design, which it was, and ego investment, blah blah blah not productive. "Women who shoot, where are you at on handgun selection and how did you get there? What sucked?" I'd really like to know.

[pax]

Everyday at work I have to deal with female shooters who are marginal, because they have been taught incorrectly from the beginning. None of those women are less capable than anyone else, they just have years of poor training to overcome. As do the men. I think its instructive though, that with the same training, the men manage to do better. Once you teach the women how they need to do things, they shoot right up there with the men. I guess my point is that poor training is still poor training, but since it comes from a man's perspective, men manage better with it. And, until we have more high level female shooters out there, the training that the rest get will lag behind compared to what is available to men. Of course, some men do know how to teach women, as do some women. Just not that many.

SLG, you're singing my song.

Kathy

[Warren Wilson]

Fools rush in where angels fear to tread (This is the spot where you should delete your post instead of going on to "but...") but... I can't be the only one who has been seeing the "what gun should I get my wife/daughter/girlfriend" thread and then the "perhaps the lady should try some stuff and make up her own mind" response on gunboards for... 15 years? There's no cookie for saying that anymore. Normally at this point I spin off into a thing about the 3913LS being a pinnacle of pistol design, which it was, and ego investment, blah blah blah not productive. "Women who shoot, where are you at on handgun selection and how did you get there? What sucked?" I'd really like to know.

I can't decide if I'm the fool here or not with my first post. ;) My wife's not the forum type, but I asked her opinion on the topic. She started with a 6906 which she could not manipulate well. She's a tough-as-nails farm kid, but the gun just didn't work for her. She dabbled with other guns over the years and finally settled on M&P40 and M&P40c for carry. She runs with a Walther PPS 9mm. She has considered something smaller for regular on-body carry, but hasn't found just the right thing yet. She practices her mode of carry with both pistols from the holster (Pistol Wear-Belly Band) at the range.

[walker2713]

M&P9C in her nightstand.....Ruger LCP380 in her purse

[Wheeler]

iPhone 6 and a bad attitude.

[GJM]

I suspect the brisk recoil is why she enjoys it.

Tangent: I don't find the M1's recoil any more unpleasant than any other auto loading shotgun I've shot. With proper push-pull, it doesn't really bother me.

I thought she liked it because it used to be mine.

Here is my wife's list: 42, 43, 26, 19, 17, 34, 27, 23, 22, 20, 29. I guess it could just be summed up as "Glock."

[rob_s]

So, this thread is offensive somehow?

Only for those roaming the Internut looking for things to get offended by.

[limatunes]

WOW. I picked a fantastic time to reup my membership here. :D

Since the title of this is "Guns for Girls" I choose to ignore the, "What do your SO's" carry and just assume I'm the girl someone wants to hear from. Thoughts of sexism, offense (or lack thereof) and training woes aside, this girl carries a S&W M&P non-safety Shield in 9mm and occasionally a Glock 19.

I primarily carry AIWB in a Keeper Errand.

[LittleLebowski]

I vote that:


I vote that we knock off the arguing and use the report post button. Back on topic.

[Chuck Whitlock]

My spouse carries a Gen2 G19 in this purpose made purse: https://www.guntotenmamas.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=GTM0028

When she goes for an exercise walk in the park with her coworker, it is a .380 TCP in a Nemesis pocket holster.

[Chuck Haggard]

WOW. I picked a fantastic time to reup my membership here. :D

Since the title of this is "Guns for Girls" I choose to ignore the, "What do your SO's" carry and just assume I'm the girl someone wants to hear from. Thoughts of sexism, offense (or lack thereof) and training woes aside, this girl carries a S&W M&P non-safety Shield in 9mm and occasionally a Glock 19.

I primarily carry AIWB in a Keeper Errand.

Good to see you here Mel

[TCinVA]

I bought my mother a Sig P238. For the following reasons:

1. She's 62 and has significant deficits in hand strength and upper body strength
2. She will not carry something bigger
3. Arthritis, carpal tunnel, and the aforementioned deficits make recoil in anything bigger unmanageable and painful
4. After having her try lots of different handguns, a .380 auto with a decent trigger is something she was able to actually use with some measure of success
5. The P238, Kimber .380, and Colt Mustang were pistols she could successfully work all the controls on, had good triggers, and had a manual safety (a feature both of us thought was best for her)
6. The P238 has fiber optic/tritium sights she can see most easily by her report

So I was horribly sexist because I picked a gun for her...but I picked one based on her needs and situation.

[ReverendMeat]

We sell tons of P238s (which is surprising to me, given the price), mainly to women who are new to shooting and want something small to carry that's also pleasant to shoot. Rarely see any sold back used.

[Tiffany Johnson]

Wow. Catching up on posts, late to the party, but this thread was, well, interesting. If anyone still cares, I carried two Kimber 1911s for ten years but recently switched to two G17s. And I don't have a significant other. But if I did (since I'm hetero), I suppose he wouldn't carry any "guns for girls." :-) Sorry, couldn't resist.

[23JAZ]

iPhone 6 and a bad attitude.

Ha, my wife just said IPhone 5 and "resting bitch face" lmao

[Beat Trash]

Wow. Catching up on posts, late to the party, but this thread was, well, interesting. If anyone still cares, I carried two Kimber 1911s for ten years but recently switched to two G17s. And I don't have a significant other. But if I did (since I'm hetero), I suppose he wouldn't carry any "guns for girls." :-) Sorry, couldn't resist.

I read an earlier post of yours describing a custom modified belly band. This sparked my interest as this is the method of a local female gun store owner who teaches female CCW classes, and is who my wife will be getting her CCW certification through.

I guess I missed the part where you are carrying two Glock 17's at the same time. Is this in fact correct? are you carrying two Glock 17's at the same time? If so, do you carry a spare magazine(s) also?

[Tiffany Johnson]

Hi, Beat Trash. Yep, same time. And yep, spare mag. And of course, that's under ideal circumstances. I sometimes make adjustments as necessary depending on clothing, environment, etc.

[Beat Trash]

Nothing negative to say about your carry choices. If it works for you, more power to you!

[GJM]

Hi, Beat Trash. Yep, same time. And yep, spare mag. And of course, that's under ideal circumstances. I sometimes make adjustments as necessary depending on clothing, environment, etc.

Tiffany, since this is PF, the real question is -- are you carrying Gen 3, Gen 4, or a mix of Glock 17 pistols, and why? :)

[Tiffany Johnson]

Tiffany, since this is PF, the real question is -- are you carrying Gen 3, Gen 4, or a mix of Glock 17 pistols, and why? :)

Alas, the real question, LOL. Well, I regret to say my answer is probably not as sexy as some of the super-techy gear enthusiasts might hope. Gen 4 on the strong side because I need the smaller grip and can't afford a custom grip reduction (and I hate shipping my gear off to strangers). Gen 3 on the weak side until I can afford to buy another Gen 4 (and because I bought it from Tom Givens, who had already reduced the grip and tricked it out pretty nicely). :-)

[ssb]

Alas, the real question, LOL. Well, I regret to say my answer is probably not as sexy as some of the super-techy gear enthusiasts might hope. Gen 4 on the strong side because I need the smaller grip and can't afford a custom grip reduction (and I hate shipping my gear off to strangers). Gen 3 on the weak side until I can afford to buy another Gen 4 (and because I bought it from Tom Givens, who had already reduced the grip and tricked it out pretty nicely). :-)

When you're doing this with the belly band, does the position of the guns mimic that of a traditional strong-side IWB holster or are you doing it another way?

[Tiffany Johnson]

Nothing negative to say about your carry choices. If it works for you, more power to you!

Thanks for not knocking my odd set up. :) But here again, the explanation is far from glamorous. Trust me, I have no delusions of being some kind of hard core over-armed bad-ass. Bottom line: comfort. When I put on a gun for the very first time, I was so uncomfortable and so conscious of my gear that I felt like I was walking around with a conjoined twin on my hip. I felt like the Leaning Tower of Pisa. Folks told me that sensation would go away but for me it just never really did. I came very close to not carrying any more. Instead, I tried putting another gun on the opposite side and all was right with the world. So in the beginning it was for weight distribution, and now it's just force of habit. Go figure.

But that full-sized BUG has come in handy on more than one occasion. Options.

[Tiffany Johnson]

When you're doing this with the belly band, does the position of the guns mimic that of a traditional strong-side IWB holster or are you doing it another way?

Sboers, see my post in response to Hambo's "Women's Carry Questions" over in the Autoloaders forum (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?16074-Women-s-carry-questions/page2) from a few days ago. I'm the first to admit there are disadvantages to a belly band, but one of the benefits is their flexibility. In short, you can almost carry however (wherever on the body) you want. I personally prefer to carry at roughly 4 and 8 o'clock, just below the waistline. But I sometimes have to adjust that slightly depending on what I'm wearing.

[Wheeler]

Ha, my wife just said IPhone 5 and "resting bitch face" lmao

LOL!