platform differences

[Grouse870]

I'm in the market for a full size 9mm. Here is my delima I carry a M&P 40L for work. I carry a glock 26 off duty. Now do I get a M&P 9mm pro (5" barrel) which would double as a practice gun since it will fit in my duty holster or do I go glock 34? I train a lot with the M&P but I also like glocks. I heard that some of the earlier(?) 9mm M&P had accuracy issues at longer ranges which I think is fixed. Buying both at this point won't work. I thought since this forum is primarily about pistols this would be the best place to ask. Does platform differences matter or is trigger time trigger time? Sorry for the long first post.

[GJM]

I'm in the market for a full size 9mm. Here is my delima I carry a M&P 40L for work. I carry a glock 26 off duty. Now do I get a M&P 9mm pro (5" barrel) which would double as a practice gun since it will fit in my duty holster or do I go glock 34? I train a lot with the M&P but I also like glocks. I heard that some of the earlier(?) 9mm M&P had accuracy issues at longer ranges which I think is fixed. Buying both at this point won't work. I thought since this forum is primarily about pistols this would be the best place to ask. Does platform differences matter or is trigger time trigger time? Sorry for the long first post.


In my experience, at most a 5% difference between like caliber platforms. Only you can decide if the lure of up to 5% is worth the expense, diversion and hassle of screwing around with something new. I love guns, so it is not only not a distraction, it is a joy. My wife feels the opposite and is only interested in shooting a Glock. Only you can decide what makes you tick.

[DocGKR]

I prefer shooting the same pistol type, work and play.

If you shoot an M&P40L at work, try an M&P9 or M&P9L; in your situation I'd likely carry an M&P9c off-duty rather than a G26.

[farscott]

Does platform differences matter or is trigger time trigger time?

In my limited experience, and I am NOT an SME, there is a benefit to trigger time on different platforms, especially on double-action revolvers. My semi-auto shooting improved as a result of shooting DA revolvers and concentrating on the trigger pull.

[Kyle Reese]

In my limited experience, and I am NOT an SME, there is a benefit to trigger time on different platforms, especially on double-action revolvers. My semi-auto shooting improved as a result of shooting DA revolvers and concentrating on the trigger pull.

I'm not an SME either, and have found this to be true for me as well. I've found that investing the time into a Beretta 92 or SIG has paid very real dividends on trigger control with a Glock or comparable SFA handgun.

[Mitch]

I'm not an SME either, and have found this to be true for me as well. I've found that investing the time into a Beretta 92 or SIG has paid very real dividends on trigger control with a Glock or comparable SFA handgun.

I had the same experience last year.

[Trooper224]

I had the same experience last year.

+2

[Grouse870]

That helps thanks. So is there an issue with the M&P 9 accuracy at 20+ yards? I keep hearing there is issues with it but most of the posts are old. Smith and Wesson states the M&P pro should shoot 3" at 25 yards. Now I'm kinda wondering if the big issue is most people just can't shoot that well and less about the gun.

[Gio]

In my limited experience, and I am NOT an SME, there is a benefit to trigger time on different platforms, especially on double-action revolvers. My semi-auto shooting improved as a result of shooting DA revolvers and concentrating on the trigger pull.

I agree with this to a limited extent, but I have made the most significant gains in performance and consistency by not touching anything else but one trigger/firearm type for extended periods of time.

[SLG]

All of the above.

BUT, until you are a REALLY good shooter, I think sticking with one platform is the best way to go.

[45dotACP]

All of the above.

BUT, until you are a REALLY good shooter, I think sticking with one platform is the best way to go.

Not trying to be a dick here...but how would you quantify the REALLY good were you thinking? Like able to shoot slow fire groups really well? Or being able to pull off a sub 6 second FASTest? Or would that be more of an individual thing?

Obviously, trigger time on a DA revolver will not benefit my ability to do slidelock reloads...but if I'm understanding correctly...the benefit for trigger control would only be noticed if you were already able to shoot something like a 90 on a B8 at 25 yards?

[SLG]

45,

It all depends what you want to get out of your shooting. For most people, it takes some time to learn the nuances of a particular gun. That time will vary quite a bit, based on the person, but I would say that if your goal is to be a great all around shooter, I would stick with one gun until IDPA Master level. That's just a SWAG on my part, but I think it is a good one. Master is not a very high level of shooting, but it is hard enough to get to, that switching guns will not help so much. Once you are there, you can switch guns and make master with any of them. Then you can decide what direction your training should take, and what gun will be best to accomplish it. You will know if switching guns then is a good idea or not.

If you goals are not in line with IDPA master, then some other yardstick is needed, but the classifier covers lots of skills, and in some depth. It is a good baseline to start finding really high level shooting ability from. I find that lots of "lower than master class" shooter can't seem to stick with one gun, hence my SWAG.

Again, if your goals are different, this may not apply, but sticking with one gun is rarely a bad idea.

[KeeFus]

I agree with SLG. When I first got really interested in shooting in 2008 I chose IDPA and its classification system as a bench mark. The agency I was with at the time used Glock 21's but I dedided to start IDPA with a Beretta 92FS. Mistake on my part. I then bought a G-19 and a G-17. I stayed with the G-17 as my "IDPA" gun and kept the G-19 as my concealed carry-off duty weapon. Staying with that platform I was able to easily transition between the 3 firearms, eventually getting the MA classifictaion with the G-17.

Now That we carry M&P 45's, my off-duty weapon is a M&P 9FS. Same sights, same POA=POI, same trigger, same holsters. Yesterday on the range I was able to switch between both pistols with relative ease and no discernible difference between the two. My times on drills were almost identical.

We are discussing going to a G-17 at work. If we do I will again switch back to the Glocks that have been tucked away in the safe and the M&Ps will go in for a break.

[GJM]

SLG, questions:

1) when you say one gun, do you literally mean one gun cold turkey, or primarily one gun for training?

2) how do you feel about regular .22 revolver work as a skill builder?

3) for your one gun, any old gun, or one platform in particular?

4) when you say one gun, is that all guns, or do you exclude long guns?

[DocGKR]

Fully concur with the comments of SLG and KeeFus above.

[rwa]

I bought an M&P Pro for USPSA Production. It was one of the newer M&Ps after they incorporated the fixes to cure the accuracy issues. Mine still shot like a cylinder bore scatter gun, and I tried a ton of different loads. Good luck.

[SLG]

SLG, questions:

1) when you say one gun, do you literally mean one gun cold turkey, or primarily one gun for training?

2) how do you feel about regular .22 revolver work as a skill builder?

3) for your one gun, any old gun, or one platform in particular?

4) when you say one gun, is that all guns, or do you exclude long guns?
Yes

[psalms144.1]

I'm going to let various SMEs weigh in on specifics of how important sticking to one platform is - but my opinion is that it's important. Critical? Maybe not, but important.

WRT the OP's specific issue, I find that the handling and trigger characteristics of the M&P platform compared to the GLOCK are different enough that I would not intermix them. Not that I COULDN'T, I just wouldn't, if I wanted to maintain peak proficiency with either. Of course, YMMV, especially if you're a freak of nature like George who can pick up anything from a j-frame to a Desert Eagle and instantly shoot 3" groups off hand at 50 yards. For the rest of us normal humans, that doesn't happen very often.

As an LE Firearms Instructor, I have an unfortunate amount of experience trying to train people through platform changes. Our issued pistol is the Sig "classic" with DAK trigger - either P229R or P239. Our personal weapons list is extensive - 17 or so manufacturers, revolvers, DA/SA, DAO, SF, SAO, LEM, you name it - as long as it has a 3" barrel (nominal 2" for round guns) and holds at least five rounds, you can carry it if you can qualify. Likewise, I spend a lot of time training our reserve folks, who are REQUIRED to carry the P229R DAK, regardless of what they carry in the real world.

My experience has been that the more people switch back and forth between "platforms," the worse their performance becomes with both platforms. I have guys who were pretty good with the Sig DAK, then bought GLOCKS, and now shoot neither very well, because in their VERY limited training time, they never stick with either "platform" long enough to get a mastery of trigger press and grip. Again, YMMV, but that's what I see, generally, across the board.

[45dotACP]

45,

It all depends what you want to get out of your shooting. For most people, it takes some time to learn the nuances of a particular gun. That time will vary quite a bit, based on the person, but I would say that if your goal is to be a great all around shooter, I would stick with one gun until IDPA Master level. That's just a SWAG on my part, but I think it is a good one. Master is not a very high level of shooting, but it is hard enough to get to, that switching guns will not help so much. Once you are there, you can switch guns and make master with any of them. Then you can decide what direction your training should take, and what gun will be best to accomplish it. You will know if switching guns then is a good idea or not.

If you goals are not in line with IDPA master, then some other yardstick is needed, but the classifier covers lots of skills, and in some depth. It is a good baseline to start finding really high level shooting ability from. I find that lots of "lower than master class" shooter can't seem to stick with one gun, hence my SWAG.

Again, if your goals are different, this may not apply, but sticking with one gun is rarely a bad idea.
Thanks for the response SLG. I decided to simplify with my G34 pulling duty as both competition and carry piece.

[DocGKR]

psalms144.1: Well said.

[Nephrology]

As a regular joe with very little time/money for training compared to most people here, I am happy I have stuck with 9mm glock pistols. I've slowly improved myself to the point that I am shooting at a USPSA B-class level and honestly don't think I would have gotten to that point at all if I had been a dilettante with pistols. I do think I've noticed an improvement from tinkering with a K frame on the side, but the bulk of my ammo budget goes down the pipe of my Glock 9mms.

[BehindBlueI's]

I can only speak to my own experience.

Sticking with one platform shows positive results in objective terms of timers and targets during various drills. Two platforms is about the best I can do. I can shoot Sig and Glock, for example, but if I try to throw 1911 back into the mix, I suffer. I can shoot nearly anything acceptably. The issue comes when I am pushing myself hard, my brain has other things occupying it, and I'm trying to run as many things on "auto pilot" as I can. Then I'll see breakdowns. A trigger won't reset when I thought it would and I'll pull a dead trigger. I'll be shooting a split the target sight picture instead of a cover the target sight picture. My eyes won't find the front sight quite as quickly. My grip won't feel quite right. If I just stand there, take my time, and try to rag out one hole as if I've got all day to do it, not much difference. That doesn't matter much to me, though.

In terms of things other than purely shooting, I cannot have multiple reload movements on board. I can't run back and forth between a H&K style paddle release vs a Glock grip mounted release. I can't shoot a Ruger and do a full speed reload if I've been handling S&W all day. It just requires more conscious thought, which means I have less conscious thought for moving, for seeking targets, etc. So, I sold everything that wasn't a Ruger in revolvers. I train "hard" solely with Sig and Glock. If I wasn't mandated to stay qualified on the Glock 22, I'd drop it as well.

[SLG]

SLG, questions:

1) when you say one gun, do you literally mean one gun cold turkey, or primarily one gun for training?

2) how do you feel about regular .22 revolver work as a skill builder?

3) for your one gun, any old gun, or one platform in particular?

4) when you say one gun, is that all guns, or do you exclude long guns?

1. Yes. One gun. Not one type. One gun. They are all a little different.

2. .22 work comes first, to build the base. You are welcome to revisit it anytime, but starting with a centerfire is not the right way to do it. Once you have the foundation properly built, the .22 is of less value. Still good though. This is where most shooters today seem to fall flat. I wore out the barrel of a MKII while originally learning to shoot. Invaluable.

3. Any appropriate platform. If you have a duty gun, that is the only appropriate platform.

4. Long guns do not count, but if you are trying to shoot a long gun really well, then all the above applies.

[farscott]

I am a huge believer in the value of the .22 handgun for improving and reinforcing fundamentals. The DA revolver work that I did (and still do, to a limited extent) is with an S&W M17. The minimal recoil allows me to see how I am moving the gun as I work the trigger, especially in follow-through.

[BehindBlueI's]

I wonder if some of the reason for improvement after DA trigger work isn't simply building up the strength and dexterity of the trigger finger.

[farscott]

Very well could be as I feel stronger. Another thing I worked on was keeping the sight picture through the entire trigger pull and trigger reset. When I started I was pulling the gun left maybe once per ten shots.

[Jared]

I wonder if some of the reason for improvement after DA trigger work isn't simply building up the strength and dexterity of the trigger finger.

I think you may be right in part.

That said, I still can't shoot a Glock as well at 25 yards as I can either the DA or SA trigger strokes on my Beretta's, or a DA revolver, or a SA Auto like a 1911. I'm looking to play with what I call the "new wave of striker fired pistols" (think VP9, SIG 320, and Walther PPQ) to see if I get better results than I did with the Glock's and M&P's at longer ranges.

To the topic at hand about sticking with one platform. I've had my very best results when I work with one platform and dedicate myself to that gun. It works best when I'm not only focusing on that one gun, but also am practicing regularly. As part of the deal with regular focused practice, my baseline shooting skill rises across the board, and when I pick up other types of guns for a magazine or two I shoot them better than I would if I wasn't practicing regularly with anything. I think part of that comes from me working regularly on sights and trigger and maybe that does cross pollinate some regardless of what gun is in the hand. But to wring the most out that I'm capable of, I need to work with one gun and then test myself with the gun I've been practicing with.