Looking for a good rifle qual

[Drew P]

I realize this is the pistol forum, but I'm coming to the collective brain trust hoping to draw on the experience here.

I have an opportunity to present a new pistol and rifle qual to our department's SWAT team. I think I have a pistol qual that I like but would like to get any recommendations on a good rifle qual. I'm open to just about anything, and we can work out to 50 yards.

This qual would likely serve as a test to get on the team, and/or a yearly qual. I have some issues about the two being the same...so I'm open to multiple suggestions.

Thanks,

Drew

[Kyle Reese]

The MEU SOC M4 qual might be worth examining.

http://dvctargets.com/useful/meusoc_cof.pdf


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Al T.]

Drew, one of our local SWAT teams has a simple test for it's prospective new members. Gear up, load rifle, sprint 50 yards, fire five shots at an 8 inch steel target 50 yards away. Drop rifle, grab shotgun, sprint 50 yards, engage steel target (not sure of range to target). Sprint 50 yards, draw handgun, etc., etc.

Miss a shot and you are out and I think the time limit is pretty tight, 2.5 minutes IIRC.

The training guy is very switched on and is sort of famous for never actually having the same qualification twice. His thought is that they have never had two shootings that were the same, so why should the qualifications be? The last shooting they had locally (state wide agency) was a gunfight in a walk-in closet.

If you'd like the guys contact information, feel free to PM me.

[Redhat]

The MEU SOC M4 qual might be worth examining.

http://dvctargets.com/useful/meusoc_cof.pdf


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

So in this COF, as I read it, there is no use of barricades?

[1slow]

No barricades when we shot the Meusoc courses in Pat's classes.

[Pennzoil]

Chris L & Brian used a simple but I thought effective set of rifle drills in a recent class (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?14602-Pistol-carbine-course-2-28-3-1-2015-Casa-Grande-AZ) I attended for performance tracking twice daily. They may give you some ideas and it ran pretty quick no major time sinks from what I could see.

Side not this class was excellent on multiple levels and if you get a chance to train with Chris & Brian you won't regret it!



Must pass 2 out of 3 runs
Missed shot equals failed run

5 Yard Line - Target 5.5” bull

-rifle-high ready 1 shot in 1.1 seconds
-rifle-low ready 1 shot in 1.1 seconds
-rifle-1 shot combat reload 1 shot in 6 seconds
-check drill (weapon manipulation drill not tactics drill) 11 seconds
1 shot with rifle transition to pistol 1 shot holster (i do this with 1 round in chamber no mag) then reload rifle 1 shot
-rifle 1 shot transition to pistol 1 shot 3.5 seconds

35 Yard Line - Target 8 1/2 by 11 target

-rifle- tap rack malfunction clear 1 shot 4.5 seconds
-rifle- double feed malfunction clear 1 shot 15 seconds
-rifle- 1 shot standing reload 1 shot kneeling reload 1 shot prone 15 seconds

[Redhat]

I realize this is the pistol forum, but I'm coming to the collective brain trust hoping to draw on the experience here.

I have an opportunity to present a new pistol and rifle qual to our department's SWAT team. I think I have a pistol qual that I like but would like to get any recommendations on a good rifle qual. I'm open to just about anything, and we can work out to 50 yards.

This qual would likely serve as a test to get on the team, and/or a yearly qual. I have some issues about the two being the same...so I'm open to multiple suggestions.

Thanks,

Drew

I'd recommend you start by identifying what objectives / requirements must be met and build it based on those. Don't forget to include any accessory equipment as well such as WML's.

[Pennzoil]

Must pass 2 out of 3 runs
Missed shot equals failed run

5 Yard Line - Target 4” bull typo on bull size is 4" not 5.5" won't let me edit post above

-rifle-high ready 1 shot in 1.1 seconds
-rifle-low ready 1 shot in 1.1 seconds
-rifle-1 shot combat reload 1 shot in 6 seconds
-check drill (weapon manipulation drill not tactics drill) 11 seconds
1 shot with rifle transition to pistol 1 shot holster (i do this with 1 round in chamber no mag) then reload rifle 1 shot
-rifle 1 shot transition to pistol 1 shot 3.5 seconds

[brooklynbacon]

I've always liked the mod Navy Qual.

[Failure2Stop]

I think that it is incredibly difficult to have a single test that adequately captures the critical skills and accountability needed with firearms that are carried with the ultimate goal of saving lives.

That said, the EAG MEUSOC mod is pretty solid, has good historical context, and lots of data for comparison.

From Tapatalk:
Jack Leuba
Knight's Armament Company: Military/Govt Product Liaison
F2S Consulting: Director of Shooting Stuff

[Drew P]

Redhat - what you stated is smart and what I've heard from a couple other trainers who I highly respect. However, if I go that route, I'd like to use something as a baseline. What I believe a or our SWAT team needs would be fairly short. I'd like a course that covers more than just that to cover a longer list of skills.

Brooklynbacon - do you have a link?

Thanks to all for the responses so far.

Drew

[Drew P]

Edited due to double post

[mark7]

Brooklynbacon - do you have a link?Drew

Not Brooklyn but here is the Modded Navy Qual I have:


Modified Navy Qualification or MNQ. This drill is a portion of the overall Navy Qualification that was shot pre-911. While shooting and administering this drill for several hundred operators and students it has been modified to it's current form. Shot versus an 8" target such as TRICON's excellent TCT-005, the drill is made up of 3 rifle magazines of 5 rounds. On the tone the shooter fires 5 rounds standing, reloads, fires 5 rounds kneeling, reloads and fires 5 rounds prone to end the exercise. Par time is 25 seconds, each miss is worth 5 points, 2 points per second over part and -1 point per second under par. Qualifying is anything better than a 40 on the drill.

Modified Navy Qual

50yds-5rds per mag-3mags

Time-25 seconds

5 Standing RELOAD

5 Kneeling RELOAD

5 Prone

Target is an 8-inch circle. Very very good drill as it combines 3 important shooting skills. Many people scoff at this drill and think its easy and not a challenge. Then they get their mindset f'd when they don't seperate the different skills and try and do them all at once.

[Chuck Haggard]

Concur that the Mod Navy Qual is a very good test for what it tests. I've shot that numerous times during and after Uncle Pat's carbine classes. It is challenging if you are trying to get a a good time on the test.

[dustyvarmint]

Right up front I'll say I'm not qualified to say what is good or bad, but there are 2 here that Chad has put a lot of thought into. Just something to consider as you gather things together.

http://www.10-32solutions.com/resources.html

Three of us (1 guy with no classes/training, 1 guy with several classes/training and 1 LEO/instructor with numerous classes/training including Pat Rogers) of us ran the Carbine Proficiency Standards version. Not a 1 of us met the standard.

good luck & happy shooting, Jerry