CCW Straight knives

[UNK]

I would like to have a conversation about carrying a straight knife in conjunction with a pistol.
What are you carrying, Where are you carrying it, and what sheath system are you using.

[MVS]

Assuming by straight knife you mean fixed blade as opposed to folder. If that is the case, Clinch Pick in original sheath with mini tek lock in the appendix position.

[UNK]

Yes Fixed Blade. Thx I knew there was going to be a bunch of those here.


Assuming by straight knife you mean fixed blade as opposed to folder. If that is the case, Clinch Pick in original sheath with mini tek lock in the appendix position.

[JDM]

I carry a Clinch Pick on my centerline, and often a disciple on my strong side.

Both in their factory sheaths.

[SAWBONES]

HideAway knife, Kydex sheath on belt, off-center by several inches, on strong side.

[JodyH]

At work (tucked in shirt required) I carry a neon green ESEE Izula at 12:30 in a Armatus (http://www.armatuscarry.com/) kydex sheath.
It's a great utility knife and very non-threatening looking in neon green.

When out and about CCW I carry a Clinch Pick at 11:30 or a fixed blade P'kal in a "shark fin" sheath for easy pocket draws in one of my pockets.

[orionz06]

Clinch Pick, centerline with my own sheath. Stock sheath, trimmed, with a soft loop added works the same.

[Dropkick]

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?2846-Fixed-blade-picture-thread

[Totem Polar]

^^^great thread, I think most of mine are in there somewhere.

Very often a BT Clinch Pick at 11:30, per current-think. Once in a while something else in the 3-4" conventional edge out format on the strong side.

[El Cid]

It's part of my daily set up. The Blade Rigs sheath is for IWB when I need to be extra discreet.

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/Mobile%20Uploads/FullSizeRender_zpse804f1c7.jpg

[voodoo_man]

http://i.imgur.com/m70FGXF.jpg

#wulfberht sheath, cold steel brave heart modified, carrying japanese sword style, IWB @ 10

[Sigfan26]

Spyderco Reverse (set up RGEI) at 9:30/10:00

[Irelander]

Clinch Pick in a trimmed original sheath with soft loop at 11:30.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/47624012/SW%20CP%20001.JPG

[Crusader8207]

Brous Silent Soldier
3334

[UNK]

EXCELLENT! Exactly The info I am looking for. THANK YOU :D What knife is that?

It's part of my daily set up. The Blade Rigs sheath is for IWB when I need to be extra discreet.

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/Mobile%20Uploads/FullSizeRender_zpse804f1c7.jpg

[UNK]

Brous is the knife with two holes? That looks like some sort of pocket system. What is it?
Brous Silent Soldier
3334

[UNK]

Is the angle set on that sheath or can it be adjusted?
Clinch Pick in a trimmed original sheath with soft loop at 11:30.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/47624012/SW%20CP%20001.JPG

[Crusader8207]

The carrier is the RCS Moduloader http://raven-concealment-systems1.mybigcommerce.com/3-pack-of-moduloader-pocket-shields/ and the knife with the two holes is the Brous Silent Soldier.



Brous is the knife with two holes? That looks like some sort of pocket system. What is it?
Brous Silent Soldier
3334

[UNK]

Have you done a review on the moduloader?

The carrier is the RCS Moduloader http://raven-concealment-systems1.mybigcommerce.com/3-pack-of-moduloader-pocket-shields/ and the knife with the two holes is the Brous Silent Soldier.

[Mitchell, Esq.]

Clinch pick right behind the belt buckle. I put a Raven soft loop on the sheath, and it tucked right behind the buckle. It carries fine even with the shirt tucked in.

[Crusader8207]

No, I haven't done a review on the moduloader, however I do use it every day in the configuration that you see. I like that it keeps everything in the orientation that is easy for me to access. I can reach into my pocket and remove the flashlight or mini Grip without having to remove the Silent Soldier. I have the Silent Soldier set so I slip my finger into the second hole and it becomes kind of a punch knife so to speak. I am considering running a second Silent Soldier in the opposite pocket for weak hand access.


Have you done a review on the moduloader?

[Irelander]

Is the angle set on that sheath or can it be adjusted?

It can be adjusted. I have read that the CP is best suited for a downward 45degree angle deployment and I have found that to be true.

[Byron]

Have you done a review on the moduloader?
Here's a PF thread on the RCS / Chris Fry Pocket Shield: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?12957-RCS-Pocket-Shield

[Wondering Beard]

Joe Watson HiTS carried near horizontally left of the belt buckle. The sheath is the one provided with the knife.

I've tried the Ban Tang Clinch Pick in the same position as shown in the previous post and it's great for pure self defense but the knife isn't as useful for more utilitarian tasks. I've also tried the Watson Mini Bowie Ti, the Watson Stealth HiTS, The Ban Tang Disciple, the Spyderco Street beat, the Emerson fixed Karambit and the Watson Pikal but I keep coming back to the regular full size HiTS.

The placement allows me to have access to the knife weak hand (reverse grip, edge in or out) and strong hand (forward and reverse grip, edge in or out).

[ford.304]

Do you wear something baggy over them? I was looking into a clinch pick. When my wife saw the pictures she said "if I saw you carrying that on your belt on a normal day I would assume you were a serial killer." Unfortunately concealed "weapons" (there is no consistent definition of when a knife becomes a weapon) are illegal in Ohio.

[Wondering Beard]

If it's cold then a sweater, if hot a polo (generally Vertx).

I carry AIWB so I always wear something untucked in front.

[UNK]

It can be adjusted. I have read that the CP is best suited for a downward 45degree angle deployment and I have found that to be true.
Thanks for the info!


Here's a PF thread on the RCS / Chris Fry Pocket Shield: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?12957-RCS-Pocket-Shield
Thanks, I'll check that out later


Joe Watson HiTS carried near horizontally left of the belt buckle. The sheath is the one provided with the knife.

I've tried the Ban Tang Clinch Pick in the same position as shown in the previous post and it's great for pure self defense but the knife isn't as useful for more utilitarian tasks. I've also tried the Watson Mini Bowie Ti, the Watson Stealth HiTS, The Ban Tang Disciple, the Spyderco Street beat, the Emerson fixed Karambit and the Watson Pikal but I keep coming back to the regular full size HiTS.



The placement allows me to have access to the knife weak hand (reverse grip, edge in or out) and strong hand (forward and reverse grip, edge in or out).
Those are some wicked looking knives. Almost everything is out of stock. I take that to be a good sign.

[JodyH]

I was looking into a clinch pick. When my wife saw the pictures she said "if I saw you carrying that on your belt on a normal day I would assume you were a serial killer."
And the downside of that is?

[Wondering Beard]

Those are some wicked looking knives. Almost everything is out of stock. I take that to be a good sign.

You can get yourself on Watson's list by emailing him and having the knife you want in the subject line.

You can also go to Edge Equipped: http://www.edgeequipped.com/brands/Joe-Watson-Knives.html

or Blue Line Gear: http://www.bluelinegear.com/shop-brands/Joe-Watson-Knives

I don't know if either of those shops actually have the knives in stock or are awaiting delivery but you won't go wrong ordering from them.

[El Cid]

EXCELLENT! Exactly The info I am looking for. THANK YOU :D What knife is that?

It's the Gryphon M10.
http://jerkingthetrigger.com/tag/gryphon-knives/

[UNK]

That's rich

And the downside of that is?

[UNK]

It's the Gryphon M10.
http://jerkingthetrigger.com/tag/gryphon-knives/

lol that site has a Nutnfancy hall of fame.

[Paladin]

What about "the bob" is anyone using that?
Rick

[UNK]

I've been looking at Joe Watson Knives. What is HiTS?

-"Flat chisel grind with reinforced point. The point is reinforced to resist breakage when penetrating dense barriers, while the main bevel is ground lean for exceptional cutting performance."

What is a dense barrier?

[Wondering Beard]

I've been looking at Joe Watson Knives. What is HiTS?

-"Flat chisel grind with reinforced point. The point is reinforced to resist breakage when penetrating dense barriers, while the main bevel is ground lean for exceptional cutting performance."

What is a dense barrier?

You'll find your best explanation here (http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=8543).

It's the article that convinced me to try it out.

[DI1]

What is your budget? What knife training do you have? These two factors will help determine best options for you.
The Gryphon M10 knife is good.
The Gerber Guardian is a cheap alternative, better with a Bladerigs sheath.
The Spyderco original Street Beat with custom sheath from Rich at Concealed Carry Concepts is a great utility/fighting package.
The Dynamis Alliance Blade made by Dan Winkler is the BEST all around fighting knife/sheath system I have found.

I carry off-side at the 9-10:00 o'clock position, edge forward.

Sheath selections are just as important as the blade itself.

FYI: Chisel grinds, recurve grinds, etc... are not optimal. A properly flat ground blade will cut much better and is more useful.

[Dagga Boy]

I've been looking at Joe Watson Knives. What is HiTS?

-"Flat chisel grind with reinforced point. The point is reinforced to resist breakage when penetrating dense barriers, while the main bevel is ground lean for exceptional cutting performance."

What is a dense barrier?

Sorry, missed the thread. During my career as a cop, I saw a lot of stabbing victims. The one thing that struck was the folks who were put down the hardest were those who were stabbed with deep penetration injuries rather than those who were cut. I also saw that a lot of the penetration injuries were prevented by things like clothing, hard objects like belt buckles or other barriers, and bone. Having a reinforced tip helps get through these things into where large blood moving vessels are. The way the Hits is designed, it also allows for a thinner cutting edge that helps making cuts more efficient.

Hope this helps.

[UNK]

Thank you.

You'll find your best explanation here (http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=8543).

It's the article that convinced me to try it out.

[UNK]

What is your budget? Whatever it takes
What knife training do you have? Zilch These two factors will help determine best options for you.
The Gryphon M10 knife is good.
The Gerber Guardian is a cheap alternative, better with a Bladerigs sheath.
The Spyderco original Street Beat with custom sheath from Rich at Concealed Carry Concepts is a great utility/fighting package.
The Dynamis Alliance Blade made by Dan Winkler is the BEST all around fighting knife/sheath system I have found.
Thanks for the input

I carry off-side at the 9-10:00 o'clock position, edge forward.

Sheath selections are just as important as the blade itself.

FYI: Chisel grinds, recurve grinds, etc... are not optimal. A properly flat ground blade will cut much better and is more useful.

[UNK]

So this is almost in opposite of philosophy of the weapon choice to Clinch Pick? As far as length of the blade?


Sorry, missed the thread. During my career as a cop, I saw a lot of stabbing victims. The one thing that struck was the folks who were put down the hardest were those who were stabbed with deep penetration injuries rather than those who were cut. I also saw that a lot of the penetration injuries were prevented by things like clothing, hard objects like belt buckles or other barriers, and bone. Having a reinforced tip helps get through these things into where large blood moving vessels are. The way the Hits is designed, it also allows for a thinner cutting edge that helps making cuts more efficient.

Hope this helps.

[DI1]

So this is almost in opposite of philosophy of the weapon choice to Clinch Pick? As far as length of the blade?

Not to speak for Nyeti or Craig, but different schools of thought...
A longer blade creates a greater wound channel and will reach vital organs, a spear point is especially good at this. However, you may not have the option to legally carry a double edged blade where you live. Look at knives that people hunt game with and you will find very few "tactical" designs. When your life is literally on the line, traditional designs that have worked for centuries are used most.
A 3.5"-4" blade will work well (on humans) and is easily concealable with the correct sheath.

No matter what knife you choose, training with a good instructor will be the most important factor. Do lots of research and look at many knives before you commit to any one martial arts system or blade design. Find something that works best for YOU.

[SouthNarc]

So this is almost in opposite of philosophy of the weapon choice to Clinch Pick? As far as length of the blade?

Not at all. I designed the CP starting with the footprint at a very specific location. The grip came next and quite frankly the blade was the last consideration. Length first then shape.

The blade length on the CP is a by-product of the footprint. I'm thrust-centric and power heavy. Monkey with a screwdriver is the best visual.

[TCinVA]

What about "the bob" is anyone using that?
Rick

I have a "Bob"...it's pretty much a slightly different CP. I prefer the CP's handle shape, personally. The "Bob" is a good quality knife, though.

I carry the Ban Tang version of the CP.

[Default.mp3]

So this is almost in opposite of philosophy of the weapon choice to Clinch Pick? As far as length of the blade?
SouthNarc has a larger blade, compared to the Clinch Pick. Meet the Disciple (this is a double edged, Nightmare grind custom variant by Ban Tang):
http://i.imgbox.com/liCSqx6k.jpg

A more standard version:
https://bfelabs.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/disciple.jpg

~7.5” OAL, with a ~3.5” blade. More information here (http://bfelabs.net/the-shivworks-disciple/).

[orionz06]

There is also the Spyderco Reverse (http://www.knifecenter.com/item/SPFB34GP/spyderco-fb34gp-reverse-fixed-satin-cts-bd1-blade-g10-handle-boltaron-sheath), a fixed blade P'kal that us reversible. Joint effort between Craig and Michael Janich.

I snagged a pair and they're very nice and fill the Disciple role for me very well.

[UNK]

What does HiTS stand for?
I am assuming at this point that there is not a specific philosophy or method of training with the HiTS knife? You use it in whatever discipline you choose. The Clinch Pick is specific to training that SouthNarc gives?

[SouthNarc]

The Clinch Pick is specific to training that SouthNarc gives?

There are several guys that could do the tool justice besides me.

HiTS is the phonetic acronym Hardwired Tactical Shooting and is Darryl and Wayne's venture. The HiTS knife is a collaboration between Darryl and Joe Watson. I've never taken a knife class with Darryl but I know his lineage and I'm sure it's sound content.

You really wouldn't have to have a class with either of us to use our knives. Not the best marketing I know but it is troof.

[UNK]

Actually Nyeti recommended going to your class. I'm just trying to figure this out. Thanks for the patience.


There are several guys that could do the tool justice besides me.

HiTS is the phonetic acronym Hardwired Tactical Shooting and is Darryl and Wayne's venture. The HiTS knife is a collaboration between Darryl and Joe Watson. I've never taken a knife class with Darryl but I know his lineage and I'm sure it's sound content.

You really wouldn't have to have a class with either of us to use our knives. Not the best marketing I know but it is troof.

[SouthNarc]

Actually Nyeti recommended going to your class. I'm just trying to figure this out. Thanks for the patience.

No worries dude! The 16 hour Edged Weapons Overview (EWO) course is just that and not specific to any one design including mine. I actually have both live blade and trainer for the HiTS knife and keep it in the bag for guys that want to finger bang it and train with it.

[Wondering Beard]

What does HiTS stand for?
I am assuming at this point that there is not a specific philosophy or method of training with the HiTS knife? You use it in whatever discipline you choose. The Clinch Pick is specific to training that SouthNarc gives?

While I've never taken a class from Southnarc, I think the name itself gives you an excellent idea for how it's used: it's for the clinch. However, you don't have to limit it to that; for example, it's quite good at back cuts from just outside hand range. The Clinch Pick is an edge-in claw best held in forward grip, there are lots of ways to use it.

I've also never taken a class from Nyeti, but just looking at the knife (and later holding it), one can tell it's not for slashing but it isn't bad at it.

What either of those knives can do is only limited by your knowledge, training and imagination.

[Dropkick]

The Clinch Pick is specific to training that SouthNarc gives?

In SouthNarc's Edged Weapons Overview (EWO) class he goes how strike with a knife held in reverse/sabre grip and edge in/out. Someone even brought a push dagger trainer and he went over that for a little bit. Some of the techniques covered lend themselves well to the design of Clinch Pick, but it certainly isn't a class devoted to it.

Edit to Add: And what everyone else said, because I'm slow.

[Dagga Boy]

So this is almost in opposite of philosophy of the weapon choice to Clinch Pick? As far as length of the blade?

Not really. Craig and I actually share a ton of ideas, we often just get there differently. I actually use a ton of blade in stuff. Here is the "DB" thought on when I put input in on a design they are set up for the grip to allow the knife to be run in any direction. Blade up,blade down, edge in, edge out,doesn't matter. These are crisis deployed contact weapons and I want the ability to cut or stab no matter what the situation gives me....which can also change during an encounter. I also carry knives differently. I am a big neck knife person,which negates a Pikal set up. Equally at other times I will carry in different places along the waistline that can change optimal deployment orientation. Just a "thing" with me, and the HiTS was designed with this in mind. The Pikal blades tend to be one trick ponies. I am also a big lover of the Karambit, which is also a one trick pony. Nothing wrong with it,but training has to be oriented to that design and maximizing the efficiency for that design.

[johncorey]

I carry a SOCP on me at at all times. It will ride in the original sheath slightly off center when I'm also carrying my pistol. When for whatever reason I am unable to carry a gun, I move my SOCP to my right (strong) side, also slightly off center. The original sheath works more than fine. The length of the dagger enables a really easy and smooth AIWB carry. I took the class with Greg back in 2011 and have been carrying it since. Although the dagger was not purpose built to sit AIWB, it does so without any issue.

Recently, Benchmade came out with the serrated single edged version. I picked one up due to varying laws from state to state in that regards. The non edged side is that in name only. Benchmade basically didn't polish it and then applied the coating.

[DI1]

I have the SOCP as well and it is easily concealed. My only concern with it is that the handle is quite thin and can twist in your hand. Also, I did not like the fact that you can not cut with it as it comes direct from Benchmade, easily rectified by sharpening the edges.

[UNK]

This helps a lot

What either of those knives can do is only limited by your knowledge, training and imagination.

[Hizzie]

I've trained with nyeti. I've been in several classes with and chatted with Joe quite a bit. Two smart guys came together with a hell of an idea that was very well executed. I am a big fan of the HiTS and carry some version of it daily.

Initially I dismissed the SOCP after handling the BM version in a LGS. Since then I have considered trying one as a weak side pocket carry instead of a folder on those lower profile days.

[UNK]

The one thing that struck was the folks who were put down the hardest were those who were stabbed with deep penetration injuries rather than those who were cut.


The blade length on the CP is a by-product of the footprint. I'm thrust-centric and power heavy. Monkey with a screwdriver is the best visual.
So here you are both saying the same thing. Thrust not slash. What is blade length on SouthNarcs knife and what is the blade length on the HiTs knife.



SouthNarc has a larger blade, compared to the Clinch Pick. \
Now I am really confused. I thought SouthNarc's blade is called a Clinch Pick.

[NerdAlert]

Now I am really confused. I thought SouthNarc's blade is called a Clinch Pick.

Shivworks (southnarc's company) has the clinch pick design, the disciple desgin, and a collaboration with Michael Janich and spyderco called the reverse. Any of these knives would work in SN's system.



Sent from my iPhone, I apologize in advance for typos.

"Gustatus similis pullus"

[JodyH]

Or just buy a cheap kitchen knife or folding Buck knife and stab 'em like a ghetto-pro.

[s0nspark]

I'm trying to decide between a Clinch Pick and an Izula II ... Things that I think would matter most to me are ease of concealment, handle length and depth of the finger groove behind the blade.

Any thoughts?

And, yeah, I'll probably end up with both LOL.

[DI1]

I'm trying to decide between a Clinch Pick and an Izula II ... Things that I think would matter most to me are ease of concealment, handle length and depth of the finger groove behind the blade.

Any thoughts?

And, yeah, I'll probably end up with both LOL.

Those are completely different blades for different purposes.

[s0nspark]

Those are completely different blades for different purposes.

Elaborate? I understand the CP has a reverse edge whereas the Izula does not but otherwise they are similarly shaped and roughly the same size... I don't intend this to be carried as a utility knife.

ETA: Wait, is the CP reverse edge ONLY? If so that answered my question :)

[DI1]

Yes, the CP is reverse edge only. That was my point.
The CP will be more concealable if you plan on carrying it OWB at the 11:00 o'clock position. The Izula can be carried in a front pocket instead of a folder.

[orionz06]

I'm trying to decide between a Clinch Pick and an Izula II ... Things that I think would matter most to me are ease of concealment, handle length and depth of the finger groove behind the blade.

Any thoughts?

And, yeah, I'll probably end up with both LOL.

I like the Izula and it can work but it's not optimal. I have a few of them and will buy more, very useful knife and very cost effective for what they are.

I think you'll still wind up with a more purpose driven blade though.

[s0nspark]

Yes, the CP is reverse edge only. That was my point.
The CP will be more concealable if you plan on carrying it OWB at the 11:00 o'clock position. The Izula can be carried in a front pocket instead of a folder.

Ok, got it. I did not realize from pics I'd seen that the CP was reverse only. Totally different purpose, as you said. Thanks!

[s0nspark]

I like the Izula and it can work but it's not optimal. I have a few of them and will buy more, very useful knife and very cost effective for what they are.

I think you'll still wind up with a more purpose driven blade though.

My thinking has been that this blade will serve mainly as an off hand defensive tool. Reverse makes sense to me in that respect. Strong hand with a reverse blade drawn from my off hand side makes me... nervous. (These thoughts stem mainly from my experiences with the Spyderco P'Kal folder though.)

[UNK]

I'm beginning to think you shouldn't be allowed in public unescorted. :p

Or just buy a cheap kitchen knife or folding Buck knife and stab 'em like a ghetto-pro.

[UNK]

What is the blade length on a clinch pick?

[s0nspark]

What is the blade length on a clinch pick?

2.72" according to the TAD site (http://store.tripleaughtdesign.com/ShivWorks-Clinch-Pick)

[UNK]

Thanks I didn't notice the specs tab when I looked earlier.


2.72" according to the TAD site (http://store.tripleaughtdesign.com/ShivWorks-Clinch-Pick)

[s0nspark]

Thanks I didn't notice the specs tab when I looked earlier.

No problem - I didn't notice it at first either :)

[Rakombo]

I am a big neck knife person,which negates a Pikal set up. Equally at other times I will carry in different places along the waistline that can change optimal deployment orientation. Just a "thing" with me, and the HiTS was designed with this in mind. The Pikal blades tend to be one trick ponies. I am also a big lover of the Karambit, which is also a one trick pony. Nothing wrong with it,but training has to be oriented to that design and maximizing the efficiency for that design.
Do you find access when neck carrying an issue? I messed around with it a little, but I found that my hand was constantly chasing the knife even when small amount of movement was involved.
How do you access ring knives? Every time I drew a ring knife My finger was too shallow, which resulted in a poor grip and the only way to rectify that was to bend my wrist.

[Crash41984]

All this talk of clinch picks and fixed blades is making me envious. Those assbags in Lansing have restricted me to folders.

[Dropkick]

Here's a great primer on knife grips by Chris Fry of MDTS:

Conventional and Unconventional Knife Grips
http://www.personaldefensenetwork.com/conventional-and-unconventional-knife-grips/

[Dagga Boy]

Do you find access when neck carrying an issue? I messed around with it a little, but I found that my hand was constantly chasing the knife even when small amount of movement was involved.
How do you access ring knives? Every time I drew a ring knife My finger was too shallow, which resulted in a poor grip and the only way to rectify that was to bend my wrist.

I access Karambits with my index finger and have no issues with it.

The one time I needed to deploy a knife for real in a fight it was a neck knife. There were zero issues and it was almost sub conscious. I find the key is to set them up to hang with the handle between the pecs and in a consistent place so they don't print and access easily.

[MolonLabe416]

I carry this http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=263

Fred Perrin Street Beat attached to one of the Raven Concealment pocket shields.

http://raven-concealment-systems1.mybigcommerce.com/moduloader-pocket-shield/

[LittleLebowski]

I carry this http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=263

Fred Perrin Street Beat attached to one of the Raven Concealment pocket shields.

http://raven-concealment-systems1.mybigcommerce.com/moduloader-pocket-shield/

The Street Beat is nearly $100 cheaper on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001AGEVT4/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B001AGEVT4&linkCode=as2&tag=ratio07-20).

[voodoo_man]

The Street Beat is nearly $100 cheaper on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001AGEVT4/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B001AGEVT4&linkCode=as2&tag=ratio07-20).

...thats pretth awesome

[Lyonsgrid]

Cold Steel Brave Heart w/ Blade Rigs sheath.
Carried IWB @ 11:00

3419

Voodoo_man and I must shop at the same place.
-hard to beat bang for the buck set-up IMO.

[Lester Polfus]

Before I heard of the clinch pick and such, I used to carry one or two Cold Steel Safekeeper push daggers. Still a viable option I think.

[UNK]

Falkniven Garm http://www.fallkniven.com/en/shop/details/382/10/military-knives/g1z Has anybody handled one of these?

[El Cid]

The Rat knife and trainer are on sale for $300 (usually $500).

http://www.warriorswaytx.com/store/43/rat-training-package/

[breakingtime91]

so, is the RAT worth the premium they ask? just curious, I am naive when it comes to knives.

[voodoo_man]

The Rat knife and trainer are on sale for $300 (usually $500).

http://www.warriorswaytx.com/store/43/rat-training-package/

Already ordered.

Not gana be this cheap for soon...

[hallnh727]

The Rat knife and trainer are on sale for $300 (usually $500).

http://www.warriorswaytx.com/store/43/rat-training-package/

Thanks for the heads up

[El Cid]

so, is the RAT worth the premium they ask? just curious, I am naive when it comes to knives.

That's really subjective. I want it in part because of the history of the knife. I've trained with Defoor a couple times and am still expanding my knife training. A good quality knife and trainer can easily hit that price point.

https://m.facebook.com/AliasTrainingLLC/posts/428007447325448

[voodoo_man]

That's really subjective. I want it in part because of the history of the knife. I've trained with Defoor a couple times and am still expanding my knife training. A good quality knife and trainer can easily hit that price point.

https://m.facebook.com/AliasTrainingLLC/posts/428007447325448

Yes, the history is really Interesting.

The blade is nice though

[johncorey]

Man, that is a massive discount...somewhat torn right now. Familiarized myself with one at a Defoor class earlier this year, and although superbly designed, I have large hands, which didn't match well with the handle. Coincidently, Dynamis is taking $50 off the blade Dom Raso designed with Daniel Winkler for Memorial Day as well. Still a nice chunk of change.

[voodoo_man]

Man, that is a massive discount...somewhat torn right now. Familiarized myself with one at a Defoor class earlier this year, and although superbly designed, I have large hands, which didn't match well with the handle. Coincidently, Dynamis is taking $50 off the blade Dom Raso designed with Daniel Winkler for Memorial Day as well. Still a nice chunk of change.

Meh dynamis blade...

It would take too long to explain why the rat is better so ill just say it was designed by blade guys.

[SLG]

Meh dynamis blade...

It would take too long to explain why the rat is better so ill just say it was designed by blade guys.

Being familiar with both, I'd love to hear why you think one is better than the other.

[johncorey]

Yes, I am aware of the design brain trust behind the Rat. Dom Raso used to carry the Rat as well IIRC. He and Daniel Winkler collaborated for the Dynamis Blade. If one doesn't consider Winkler to be a blade guy, then I don't know who would qualify.

I think both examples share the same design parameters. One isn't necessarily "better" IMO.

Tried the Rat. Little small. Tried the Dynamis. Very nice fit for my large hands.

[voodoo_man]

Making/designing blades and using them on people are two different things, widely different.



Being familiar with both, I'd love to hear why you think one is better than the other.

Thatll be an offline convo one day.

[DI1]

I've played around with both, own the Dynamis Blade. Awesome pure fighter design! Dom and Winkler nailed it!
The RAT is nice, but not for me. Although, at the discount price...

[imp1295]

I have the SOCP as well and it is easily concealed. My only concern with it is that the handle is quite thin and can twist in your hand. Also, I did not like the fact that you can not cut with it as it comes direct from Benchmade, easily rectified by sharpening the edges.

Greg Thompson, one of my BJJ professors originally designed the SOCP for the very specific purpose of guys kitted up, needing something as a tool to enable you to gain access to other tools (he stated it allows you to still get a firing grip on a firearm without dropping or stowing the knife) The thin handle was that way to allow you to still hold a firearm once you've created distance. I won't necessarily agree or disagree. But, that was his thought process.

I think Craig's handle makes more sense for me, and how I believe I would employ the blade. But, they all work in one way or another.

My issue with the original SOCP is that except when I was carrying it in a .mil capacity down range I couldn't have it on me in either a off duty capacity or even on post due to most on post restrictions for weapons (no double edged blades). I'm glade they went to a single edge version as it opens up more possibilities.

[DamonL]

Being familiar with both, I'd love to hear why you think one is better than the other.

I don't know which is better but here iis some info on the dynamis blade design attributes.

https://www.dynamisalliance.com/blog/entry/blade-2014-dom-raso-dynamis-blade-project-by-winkler-knives-ii

[DamonL]

double tap

[voodoo_man]

Greg Thompson, one of my BJJ professors originally designed the SOCP for the very specific purpose of guys kitted up, needing something as a tool to enable you to gain access to other tools (he stated it allows you to still get a firing grip on a firearm without dropping or stowing the knife) The thin handle was that way to allow you to still hold a firearm once you've created distance. I won't necessarily agree or disagree. But, that was his thought process.

I think Craig's handle makes more sense for me, and how I believe I would employ the blade. But, they all work in one way or another.

My issue with the original SOCP is that except when I was carrying it in a .mil capacity down range I couldn't have it on me in either a off duty capacity or even on post due to most on post restrictions for weapons (no double edged blades). I'm glade they went to a single edge version as it opens up more possibilities.

I had a SOCP and trainer from benchmade a while ago...

http://i.imgur.com/bBkHnTO.jpg

I had a serious problem in training getting myself not to put a finger inside the hole. So much so I ditched the whole thing and went to a full sized pentagon.

[AndrewS]

KA Bar TDI, the original size, in a horizontal sheath, made by NSR tactical. Worn forward of left hip, handle facing centerline, whole setup less than $85 and works great, the TDI is an awesome little knife, especially for someone, like me, that has limited training with edge weapons

[DI1]

I had a SOCP and trainer from benchmade a while ago...

http://i.imgur.com/bBkHnTO.jpg

I had a serious problem in training getting myself not to put a finger inside the hole. So much so I ditched the whole thing and went to a full sized pentagon.

Why would you NOT use the hole? I understand everyone has a preference, just asking?

[DI1]

Greg Thompson, one of my BJJ professors originally designed the SOCP for the very specific purpose of guys kitted up, needing something as a tool to enable you to gain access to other tools (he stated it allows you to still get a firing grip on a firearm without dropping or stowing the knife) The thin handle was that way to allow you to still hold a firearm once you've created distance. I won't necessarily agree or disagree. But, that was his thought process.

I think Craig's handle makes more sense for me, and how I believe I would employ the blade. But, they all work in one way or another.

My issue with the original SOCP is that except when I was carrying it in a .mil capacity down range I couldn't have it on me in either a off duty capacity or even on post due to most on post restrictions for weapons (no double edged blades). I'm glade they went to a single edge version as it opens up more possibilities.

I'm aware of Greg's contribution and spoke at length with Spartan Knives regarding the original design. For me, I would prefer a slightly thicker handle. Hardcore Knives of Australia just did their "modified" version of the SOCP, but it has a sub-hilt nub in the handle that does not look comfortable.
IMO, I don't see a reason to hold onto your knife while firing a pistol, no matter how thin the grip is. I know guys that have trained to do it, but I see it as a self inflicted accident waiting to happen.

[UNK]

Just out of curiosity...I don't see Spartan knives mentioned hardly at all except an earlier comment that they refuse to provide trainers.
Why is that?

[UNK]

KA-BAR TDI Knife Review: Unsafe for Duty
http://thinblueflorida.com/?p=2622



KA Bar TDI, the original size, in a horizontal sheath, made by NSR tactical. Worn forward of left hip, handle facing centerline, whole setup less than $85 and works great, the TDI is an awesome little knife, especially for someone, like me, that has limited training with edge weapons

[Byron]

KA-BAR TDI Knife Review: Unsafe for Duty
http://thinblueflorida.com/?p=2622

Respectfully, I think you're putting too much faith in things you read rather than getting some first-hand experience/training.

The review's gripe with the TDI is not the knife, but the factory sheath. Andrew, on the other hand, is using an aftermarket sheath.

If you read to the end of the review, there's an update in which the author says his problems with the factory sheath have been solved.

In any regard, the author's problems with the original sheath are inherent to just about any kydex sheath that leaves the handle exposed to the world. His wish for a locking device on the sheath (which TDI did eventually produce) is the exception in the knife world: not the rule. I don't think a single knife in this entire thread comes with a locking-mechanism sheath (unless I overlooked one).

The problem he describes in the article has much more to do with carry method/location, not to mention weapons retention training, than it does with a sheath. I don't know any knife trainers who deem a retention locking mechanism necessary for a knife.

[HCM]

KA-BAR TDI Knife Review: Unsafe for Duty
http://thinblueflorida.com/?p=2622

I agree regarding the original TDI sheaths lack of retention for uniformed "open" carry, however that review is from 2012. The newer models (hinderer and hellfire) now come with a locking retention sheath.

http://thinblueflorida.com/?p=7388

[johncorey]

Just out of curiosity...I don't see Spartan knives mentioned hardly at all except an earlier comment that they refuse to provide trainers.
Why is that?


This came straight from Greg during a SOCP class in 2011.

Initially, Greg had partnered with Spartan Blades to make the dagger. Greg's biggest parameters for the blade were 1. made in USA, 2. didn't add anything that he didn't envision for it, 3. cost should be around $100ish for a package deal of blade, trainer and sheath in order for .mil dudes to be able to afford them out of pocket, since there was no plan/contract/purchase agreement to have the SOCP Dagger become an issued item to select customers.

The first run that Spartan made, came out MUCH higher in price than Greg was comfortable with. Greg bought them all outright and handed them out to the grads of the class. That was the last time IIRC that he commissioned a run from Spartan. He shopped his design with the same general guidelines and landed at Benchmade, which seems to have been a very beneficial partnership for both. The SOCP Dagger from Benchmade has all the copyrighted/registered stuff, which is why Spartan's design is slightly different, and they call it the "CQB Tool".

As far as I know, Spartan does make/sell a trainer for their CQB Tool.

[johncorey]

I had a SOCP and trainer from benchmade a while ago...

http://i.imgur.com/bBkHnTO.jpg

I had a serious problem in training getting myself not to put a finger inside the hole. So much so I ditched the whole thing and went to a full sized pentagon.


Yes, I would be interested to know as well. The ring was purpose designed to be utilized, it was never meant to be a hilt/cross guard/similar. The user's index finger is supposed to go inside the ring, other use would defeat its purpose.

[orionz06]

Degloving and finger breakage is always a concern. How big of a deal it is seems to vary but I won't stick my finger in a ring under the circumstances of intended use.

[UNK]

I'm not putting faith in anything. I can submit everything to you for your approval if you wish.


Respectfully, I think you're putting too much faith in things you read rather than getting some first-hand experience/training.

The review's gripe with the TDI is not the knife, but the factory sheath. Andrew, on the other hand, is using an aftermarket sheath.

If you read to the end of the review, there's an update in which the author says his problems with the factory sheath have been solved.

In any regard, the author's problems with the original sheath are inherent to just about any kydex sheath that leaves the handle exposed to the world. His wish for a locking device on the sheath (which TDI did eventually produce) is the exception in the knife world: not the rule. I don't think a single knife in this entire thread comes with a locking-mechanism sheath (unless I overlooked one).

The problem he describes in the article has much more to do with carry method/location, not to mention weapons retention training, than it does with a sheath. I don't know any knife trainers who deem a retention locking mechanism necessary for a knife.

[Byron]

Edited to remove unnecessary bickering.

[Up1911Fan]

Just saw this and it's back to $500. Too late for me.

[UNK]

No matter what knife you choose, training with a good instructor will be the most important factor. Do lots of research and look at many knives before you commit to any one martial arts system or blade design. Find something that works best for YOU.

So who should I listen to you or DI1? I stated up front I have zilch experience. My intent is to gain an understanding of the current thoughts on training with a knife before I commit to a particular training method and I have decided to wait on a knife until I have training experience.

To that end I have asked Nyeti about one of the few available local trainers and he was less than enthusiastic.

The only knife I asked about that wasn't mentioned by someone else first was the Falkniven that got zero replies.

I found both of your post directed at me to be rude. I feel that your concerns could have been better handled in a direct email instead of calling me out on a public forum. So I am not Butt Hurt as you say nor am I engaging in mental masturbation.

"If you run into an a**hole in the morning, you ran into an a**hole. If you run into a**holes all day, you're the a**hole." - Raylan Givens

How many assholes have you run into today?


Not sure what the butthurt is about, but I guess I'll speak more bluntly:

You replied to someone's blade choice with a link saying it's not fit for duty. You apparently didn't read the entire article, given the update on it. You apparently didn't apply enough critical thinking to question why the shortcomings listed in that article don't apply to every other knife listed in this thread (they mostly do). You apparently didn't consider that the article is shitting on the sheath (and specific method of carry) while Andrew specifically said he is using a custom sheath.

This entire thread seems to be you just asking "How bout this knife? How bout this knife? How bout this other knife?"

How bout you get some knife training? Or at least some access/sparring practice with training knives?

Would you pick out a gun this way? Just randomly posting various models of radically different design and repeatedly asking for people's opinion with almost no context at all?

Given that people have pretty specific tastes based on how they prefer to carry, access, and utilize a blade, how are you deciding whose opinions to listen to over others?

You don't need to go out and learn to be Zorro, but just looking at eye candy on the net with no practice of drawing and sparring is just mental masturbation. The blade will make far less difference than the man wielding it.


Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk

[voodoo_man]

Degloving and finger breakage is always a concern. How big of a deal it is seems to vary but I won't stick my finger in a ring under the circumstances of intended use.

this.

[SLG]

Degloving and finger breaking are real, albeit rare, concerns, but less so with the SOCP than other ring designs. How many here actually know of someone breaking a finger in a fight from using a ring on their knife? The SOCP ring was designed to deal with those issues, and other issues that actually have come up in fights. Also, the SOCP has been successfully used in combat (not that that means much in and of itself), and found to have worked very well, and as designed.

[johncorey]

^This.

[voodoo_man]

Degloving and finger breaking are real, albeit rare, concerns, but less so with the SOCP than other ring designs. How many here actually know of someone breaking a finger in a fight from using a ring on their knife? The SOCP ring was designed to deal with those issues, and other issues that actually have come up in fights. Also, the SOCP has been successfully used in combat (not that that means much in and of itself), and found to have worked very well, and as designed.

I've heard the opposite about the SOCP, even before I bought one to try out myself.

During training getting a finger caught during FoF was a very real issue that caused me not to continue on with the blade.

[Dropkick]

https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7791/17952967298_cd128c7e45_o.jpg

*sits back and watches the heads explode*

[Trajan]

When I used the SOCP I only used the ring for deployment and once the rest of the handle cleared I removed my finger. I also only put the first joint in, and due to my hand size that first joint would fit in the ring sideways.

[UNK]

Derespina Knives Model 10 Kerambit production run pre sale 115.00 gets you a knife sheath tshirt and bumper sticker. 4 slots available as of yesterday. Knives delivered end of July 1st of august.

http://derespinaknives.com/derespina_model_10_production_karambit_pre_order

[UNK]

http://derespinaknives.com/derespina_model_10_production_karambit_pre_order first link didn't work


Derespina Knives Model 10 Kerambit production run pre sale 115.00 gets you a knife sheath tshirt and bumper sticker. 4 slots available as of yesterday. Knives delivered end of July 1st of august.

http://derespinaknives.com/derespina_model_10_production_karambit_pre_order

[Hizzie]

KA-BAR TDI Knife Review: Unsafe for Duty
http://thinblueflorida.com/?p=2622


The problem with that review is that Randall used the TDI in the opposite manner that John teaches (or taught) it. When John Benner and Greg Ellifritz taught me how to use the TDI it was intended as a weak side weapon primarily. John intended the knife to be worn on the weak side, handle back so the weak hand could draw it in a forward grip to cut someone off of your gun. Strong hand would be attempting to keep gun in holster. One thing I noticed in training. John and Greg had all of their TDIs in Fin Designed sheaths. Even the Large TDI prototype was in a Fin. That was a clue. The KaBar factory sheath is utter shit. Bunch of guys make good sheaths for them now.

[EPF]

3456

I just received this. An Ian Wendt of Special Circumstances design. It's extremely light and works equally well in forward, reverse, or push dagger grip. I'm very pleased how it turned out.

[Hizzie]

3456

I just received this. An Ian Wendt of Special Circumstances design. It's extremely light and works equally well in forward, reverse, or push dagger grip. I'm very pleased how it turned out.

I'm kinda digging that.

[DI1]

http://derespinaknives.com/derespina_model_10_production_karambit_pre_order first link didn't work

Make sure it fits your hand prior to ordering. If it doesn't fit will be useless.
I'm also not a fan of the sheath. Rich makes some interesting designs but it has to fit your hand to work properly.

[EPF]

I'm kinda digging that.

Thanks-

I think it's aesthetically pleasing, but what I'm blown away by is it's functionality. I just trusted Ian based on his work I've handled before. I told him what I wanted a knife to do and asked him to give me his take on it.

The unique grip shape allows me to really lock down on all three grips. It just sticks in my hand. As a push dagger, it's unbelievable. It's a tad lighter than my Clinch pick with a similar carry profile.

[secondstoryguy]

I like the SOCP for what it is. The #1 reason I like the SOCP dagger is I can wear it on my external carrier(in uniform) and it does not readily look like a conventional knife. I have the majority of the sheath tucked away behind a pouch. When people ask what it is I tell them it's a "rescue knife" to cut seatbelts. I can access it quickly and and its pretty stabby.

[UNK]

I gave him my hand measurements and he said it would fit well. I thought the price was right. If it doesn't work I'll sell it.


Make sure it fits your hand prior to ordering. If it doesn't fit will be useless.
I'm also not a fan of the sheath. Rich makes some interesting designs but it has to fit your hand to work properly.

[DI1]

I gave him my hand measurements and he said it would fit well. I thought the price was right. If it doesn't work I'll sell it.

Ok, if it fits well, contact Rich at Concealed Carry Concepts and have him make you a sheath for it, makes a world of difference! Rich at CCC makes a great minimal sheath that allows various carry options.

[UNK]

OK Thanks!

Ok, if it fits well, contact Rich at Concealed Carry Concepts and have him make you a sheath for it, makes a world of difference! Rich at CCC makes a great minimal sheath that allows various carry options.

[HCM]

Does anyone here have experience with the Spyderco Street beat?

http://m.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=263

Also is there a trainer available for it or maybe a custom knife maker who makes trainers for other makers knives?

[UNK]

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?13199-Spyderco-Street-Beat&highlight=spyderco+street+beat


Does anyone here have experience with the Spyderco Street beat?

http://m.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=263

Also is there a trainer available for it or maybe a custom knife maker who makes trainers for other makers knives?

[DI1]

Does anyone here have experience with the Spyderco Street beat?

http://m.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=263

Also is there a trainer available for it or maybe a custom knife maker who makes trainers for other makers knives?


The Spyderco original Street Beat with custom sheath from Rich at Concealed Carry Concepts is a great utility/fighting package.

[Irelander]

An Ian Wendt of Special Circumstances design.

Oh crap! I was perusing the Special Circumstances website and found this.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-T9jfYYsFafs/T5TfT60HpXI/AAAAAAAAD4o/gV41cTSiHUg/s1600/DSC03476.JPG

This is going to get expensive.

[Default.mp3]

Ian also makes a double edged version of the Disciple, if that's a legal option for you:
http://i.imgbox.com/bVXKyr6E.jpg

[HCM]

The Spyderco original Street Beat with custom sheath from Rich at Concealed Carry Concepts is a great utility/fighting package.

Thanks all. It caught my eye in the local fun store. Apparently they've improved the sheath a little bit and done away with the tek lock

[EPF]

Oh crap! I was perusing the Special Circumstances website and found this.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-T9jfYYsFafs/T5TfT60HpXI/AAAAAAAAD4o/gV41cTSiHUg/s1600/DSC03476.JPG

This is going to get expensive.

You won't be disappointed if you go that route. His smaller reverse edge knife is pretty slick as well.

[OnionsAndDragons]

Does anyone here have experience with the Spyderco Street beat?

http://m.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=263

Also is there a trainer available for it or maybe a custom knife maker who makes trainers for other makers knives?

It's a really good knife. Get a purpose built sheath for your needs and your gtg.

For a trainer, I would get on bladeforums and post up to the makers there what you are looking for. Someone will likely be happy to help you. I'd suggest getting it made from G-10. It's nicer for your training partners and you can just get the whole thing made out of a bright training color.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[johncorey]

Very intriguing, each made with input from two familiar names:

http://jerkingthetrigger.com/2015/06/10/news-from-joe-watson-knives/

The push dagger designed reminds me of the SureFire ED-14, which sadly is no longer made along with the rest of SureFire's edged weapons.

[SouthNarc]

Joe is good people!

[Wondering Beard]

Very intriguing, each made with input from two familiar names:

http://jerkingthetrigger.com/2015/06/10/news-from-joe-watson-knives/

The push dagger designed reminds me of the SureFire ED-14, which sadly is no longer made along with the rest of SureFire's edged weapons.

Both of those are on my 'to buy' list when they come out.

I have quite a few of Joe Watson's knives (recently acquired a different karambit of his and it is very nice) and they're all top class.

One of his designs that is a bit more 'general purpose' and small is the Magni, I'd pick it over a Street Beat any time.

[23JAZ]

Ian also makes a double edged version of the Disciple, if that's a legal option for you:
http://i.imgbox.com/bVXKyr6E.jpg

I like the looks of that. How is the grip? Like like it could get pretty slippery in the hand.

[Default.mp3]

I like the looks of that. How is the grip? Like like it could get pretty slippery in the hand.
I'm quite sure that the grip hadn't been finished at that point, and that Ian later added that layer of grip stuff see in the rest of his blades; that was probably just a WIP picture. It's nothing more than a double edged version of what Irelander posted (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?15932-CCW-Straight-knives&p=325983&viewfull=1#post325983).

[luckyman]

Very intriguing, each made with input from two familiar names:

http://jerkingthetrigger.com/2015/06/10/news-from-joe-watson-knives/

The push dagger designed reminds me of the SureFire ED-14, which sadly is no longer made along with the rest of SureFire's edged weapons.

Oh man, I have to get this Karambit. Ever since I took one of Tarani's classes I've been looking for a karambit with with enough angle to put the tip of the blade at right angles to the handle to fit some of Steve's techniques.

Has anyone (Darryl or someone at BladeShow?) handled the prototype in person? I have kind of small hands. For example, the 5.11 folding karambit fits me perfect, but the handles/finger grooves on the Emerson karambits are too big for me.

I'll email Joe directly if I don't see any response here.

[Gadfly]

All these beautiful high end, high dollar blades... And I carry a $30 Gerber.

But it works and if I lose it I am not gonna freak out.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/11/916ffb4dae0180d4c7b2f13a03a09b56.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HCM]

One of his designs that is a bit more 'general purpose' and small is the Magni, I'd pick it over a Street Beat any time.

I looked up the magni - it's nice, but I have XXL hands And the description stated the handle is a bit short, do you think that would be a problem? Also have you tried stabbing anything solid with this knife? Is the finger choil adequate as a blade guard?

[Wondering Beard]

I looked up the magni - it's nice, but I have XXL hands And the description stated the handle is a bit short, do you think that would be a problem? Also have you tried stabbing anything solid with this knife? Is the finger choil adequate as a blade guard?

I believe it will be too short for you. I have XL hands and it's at my limit (which is why I don't use the Street beat, it's even smaller).

I have tried to stab into a processed wood bookcase, not too hard but enough to penetrate flesh or so I imagine (I didn't use gloves because it makes the knife too small in my hands and thus would change the experiment) because of the same worry you present. With a reverse grip (thumb capping the handle), it's no problem. In forward grip, I first tried a saber like grip (thumb along the spine) and having the the butt nestled somewhat in my palm and it held up pretty well (my Magni has the resin soaked cord wrap and it sticks nicely to the hand without being too abrasive on hand and clothes -like a good 30 lpi, I think. I have a Mini Bowie that has G10 scales and it's a little slippery for my tastes). Then I tried a straightforward hammer grip and while my hand didn't ride up the blade, it did move up a bit and felt much less secure; frankly it was the cord wrap that felt like it provided the necessary friction, not the choil/guard.

Personally, I think that most small knives (including folders) that are made with a self defense role in mind (most designs are mixed work/SD designs that get used mostly for work anyway) have too small a choil/guard to work well with a forward grip stab. It's why 1) I generally 'palm' the knife a bit in forward grip and 2) I like the HiTS as the choil holds the hand in place better and the jimping on the spine holds the thumb same nicely in place.

[Wondering Beard]

Recently got a new HiTS from Blue Line Gear and both the blade and the handle were definitively shorter.

I don't know if it's a new standard for the HiTS or a one off for Blue Line Gear.

It's still a great knife but I prefer it longer.

[Hizzie]

Recently got a new HiTS from Blue Line Gear and both the blade and the handle were definitively shorter.

I don't know if it's a new standard for the HiTS or a one off for Blue Line Gear.

It's still a great knife but I prefer it longer.

Was it a Compact HiTS? The Compact does have a shorter, more compact, handle.

[Wondering Beard]

It wasn't advertised as a Compact.

I also have a Stealth which I think is supposed to be the size of a Compact and it's even smaller.

E.T.A: it's this one (http://www.bluelinegear.com/product/Joe-Watson-HiTS-Knife)

[Hizzie]

It wasn't advertised as a Compact.

I also have a Stealth which I think is supposed to be the size of a Compact and it's even smaller.

E.T.A: it's this one (http://www.bluelinegear.com/product/Joe-Watson-HiTS-Knife)

Huh. What's you blade length and OAL?

[Wondering Beard]

Original acid etch full size HiTS:
Blade length (from top of guard to tip -only sharp edge was measured): 3.5 inches
OAL: 7.8 inches

Stone wash 'Grey' HiTS as shown in the link:
Blade length: 3.25 inches
OAL: 7.25 inches.


Just got an email from Joe Watson as I was typing this post which explains the difference:
"The previous HiTS compact is now the standard model. This change was made due to overwhelming preference from folks. Apologies for any mixup, did Blue Line Gear have the correct size specs listed?
Joe"

I hope he'll make more original full size ones.

[Hizzie]

Original acid etch full size HiTS:
Blade length (from top of guard to tip -only sharp edge was measured): 3.5 inches
OAL: 7.8 inches

Stone wash 'Grey' HiTS as shown in the link:
Blade length: 3.25 inches
OAL: 7.25 inches.


Just got an email from Joe Watson as I was typing this post which explains the difference:
"The previous HiTS compact is now the standard model. This change was made due to overwhelming preference from folks. Apologies for any mixup, did Blue Line Gear have the correct size specs listed?
Joe"

I hope he'll make more original full size ones.

Yeah. That sounded like the Compact.

[Hizzie]

Well here are the two sizes of HiTS - unless Joe changed ever more since last we spoke.

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae322/strangler366/Mobile%20Uploads/1435004914_zps61347e51.jpg (http://s984.photobucket.com/user/strangler366/media/Mobile%20Uploads/1435004914_zps61347e51.jpg.html)

[Wondering Beard]

I don't know when you last spoke with him but the Compact has become the regular size (as per email in my previous post) and I don't know when if even if he will make full size ones again.

Nice collection btw :D

[Hizzie]

I don't know when you last spoke with him but the Compact has become the regular size (as per email in my previous post) and I don't know when if even if he will make full size ones again.

Nice collection btw :D

We had discussed his preference for the "compact" version and thought it's what should have been standard. He didn't mention dropping the larger version from production. I did bug Joe for a good while to get a steel "compact" made. Mine was the 1st and only for quite a while. It's good to have spares. ;)

[Wondering Beard]

It is good. :cool:

I wish I had more full size spares as the compact is almost a little too short for me, handle wise.

[breakingtime91]

Cold Steel Brave Heart w/ Blade Rigs sheath.
Carried IWB @ 11:00

3419

Voodoo_man and I must shop at the same place.
-hard to beat bang for the buck set-up IMO.

After debating for a long time, I believe I'm gonna buy this set up. Anyone got any pics of them wearing the knife in their blade rigs set up?

[breakingtime91]

cricket. cricket

[voodoo_man]

cricket. cricket

Ill get some up

[breakingtime91]

Thanks

[Cookie Monster]

Can someone explain pikal style knives? I'm curious.

Looking for an EDC knife fixed blade I can run on a Raven pocket shield.

Cookie Monster

[SouthNarc]

A pikal or reverse edge essentially cuts on the pull instead of the push. Primary tactic is thrusting and hooking of limbs to open up more targets for thrusting.

[OnionsAndDragons]

Pikal/reverse edge: It's a screwdriver that can also be used like a talon/claw.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[breakingtime91]

I'm " " close to ordering the braveheart. Wish bladerigs had the standard black sheath available..

[Cookie Monster]

I am " " close to ordering a Joe Watson knife. I keep toggling between the pikal and HITs knife on BlueLineGear.

Cookie Monster

[Wondering Beard]

I am " " close to ordering a Joe Watson knife. I keep toggling between the pikal and HITs knife on BlueLineGear.

Cookie Monster

I have both and they're both excellent.

The Pikal isn't much of a general utility knife if that makes a difference.

Order both anyway :cool:

[orionz06]

I am " " close to ordering a Joe Watson knife. I keep toggling between the pikal and HITs knife on BlueLineGear.

Cookie Monster

I like the Pikal, buy one then post pics.

[Hizzie]

I am " " close to ordering a Joe Watson knife. I keep toggling between the pikal and HITs knife on BlueLineGear.

Cookie Monster

HiTS is a damn fine knife. Joe is a hell of a guy. Six in one, half dozen in the other.

[Luke]

Anybody have a recommendation for a first fixed blade? It's very common for guys at my work to carry one, and seeing how we aren't aloud to carry a fire arm while on the clock this is the next best thing. I'd like to take some classes aswell. I need a good defense knife AND a knife I can abuse and use as a tool almost everyday.

[Hizzie]

Anybody have a recommendation for a first fixed blade? It's very common for guys at my work to carry one, and seeing how we aren't aloud to carry a fire arm while on the clock this is the next best thing. I'd like to take some classes aswell. I need a good defense knife AND a knife I can abuse and use as a tool almost everyday.


http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=8543

[orionz06]

Anybody have a recommendation for a first fixed blade? It's very common for guys at my work to carry one, and seeing how we aren't aloud to carry a fire arm while on the clock this is the next best thing. I'd like to take some classes aswell. I need a good defense knife AND a knife I can abuse and use as a tool almost everyday.

http://www.mdtstraining.com/small-fixed-blades/


Personally I'd maybe snag an ESEE Izula and some scales from TKC (http://www.theknifeconnection.net/izula-g10-handles/).


The ESEE stuff is cheap and you can beat the piss outta it without concern. Alternatively the Boker Ridgeback with a cord wrapped handle is pretty slick too. Voodooman will post a pic when he sees this.

[Dropkick]

Yeah, if you're just starting out with small fixed blades, get a mass-produced knife or two, and figure out what you like and don't like. The only thing to be cautious of is the sheaths for most mass-produced knives really suck.

The ESEE Izula and Boker Ridgeback are pretty solid suggestions.

[OnionsAndDragons]

I have to agree; if you want it for both defensive and utility work, an Izula or Ridgeback are great choices. There is also a Becker model that is basically an Izula.

The two daily carry fixed knives I will run regularly are a clinch pick or a Strider DB (very similar to the hits knife, with good reason.) in 3v steel. I love the DB, it's basically a pry bar with a wicked tanto edge on it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[orionz06]

I wasn't a fan of the Becker blade shape for any work beyond opening boxes. The Izula shape seemed to cut better and stay sharper longer for me.

[OnionsAndDragons]

I agree with the Esee blade holding an edge a bit better. I think their heat treat is a bit more consistent.

I can't attest to the cutting performance, since I convex most of my small-medium woodsy blades. So they both cut about the same in my specific case.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Dropkick]

There is also a Becker model that is basically an Izula.

I wasn't a fan of the Becker blade shape for any work beyond opening boxes.

Are you guys referring to the Becker Eskabar?
http://www2.knifecenter.com/item/KABK14/KA-BAR-ESEE-BK14-Becker-Eskabar-Knife-3-14-inch-1095-Cro-Van-Carbon-Steel-Blade

[OnionsAndDragons]

That would be the one I was talking about, Dropkick!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Dropkick]

That would be the one I was talking about, Dropkick!
What's your opinion of the Becker Eskabar sheath?

I'm personally a fan of the Kershaw Skinner, but it's hard to recommend to people since the sheath is just folded and stitched leather. I had DarkStar Gear make me a kydex sheath for it.
http://www.bladehq.com/item--Kershaw-Knives-Skinning--8124

[OnionsAndDragons]

The one mine came with was garbage. I have heard the newer ones are better, but no firsthand experience with them.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[orionz06]

What's your opinion of the Becker Eskabar sheath?

I'm personally a fan of the Kershaw Skinner, but it's hard to recommend to people since the sheath is just folded and stitched leather. I had DarkStar Gear make me a kydex sheath for it.
http://www.bladehq.com/item--Kershaw-Knives-Skinning--8124

The Eskabar sheath I've handled was the same stuff that most factory sheaths are. Works for a few applications but not anything we generally wanna do with them.

[Hatchetman]

How well can you use a knife? If you don't have a lot of time in with one in your hand I'd suggest going to one of the big knife retailers, look at what is on sale, snag something cheap from name brand maker when you spot a design that interests you, and then go out and beat the knife to death. The stuff you learn swinging a cheap blade will help inform you of what you like and dislike when it comes time to replace it, and you won't weep when you ding up the knife. And hey, there are a couple of different cheap knives I carry when out and about in certain places I wouldn't think twice about tossing down a storm drain if the need arose, a consideration in some of the places I wander to.

[Dropkick]

And hey, there are a couple of different cheap knives I carry when out and about in certain places I wouldn't think twice about tossing down a storm drain if the need arose, a consideration in some of the places I wander to.

lolwut?!

[breakingtime91]

lolwut?!

Dude what just happened

[Dropkick]

Dude what just happened

I wouldn't think twice about tossing down a storm drain

[JodyH]

lolwut?!
I've bought and carried cheap fixed blades in Mexico.
Buy it, carry it, toss it before crossing back over.
Saves the hassle of explaining things to customs on either side.
And when a Mexican cop confiscates a $10 knife it sucks less than paying the $50 "fine" to keep your own nice knife.
If I actually had to use it in Mexico the plan was to toss it and exfil to the border.

[breakingtime91]

I know!

[Hatchetman]

I get pulled into DC and other NPEs on occasion and hence carry knives I won't mind losing should I encounter a metal detector or whatever, yes?

[Dropkick]

I get the foreign country scenario, but having to toss a blade down the drain domestically sounds either criminal, or piss poor planning.

[JDM]

Criminal and wrong are not always the same thing.

[Cookie Monster]

I like the Pikal, buy one then post pics.


Finally ordered from Joe, website says a few weeks to ship. I'll post pics when it comes.

I went with the Pikal because it'll be my in pocket stabbing people knife. I took knife classes a decade ago, it is time to refresh. Also you asked so nicely

Cookie Monster

[Hatchetman]

Well let's see, Dropkick, at the ol' day job I've had Madeline Albright, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, and various other federal and state dignitaries show up. I've had roles from supporting the event, to managing the building the Secret Service set up snipers on, to troubleshooting technology, to just being the poor sap who wanders into some circus. While heading downtown to the mall--I see you are from NoVA and so ought to understand--I've had friends and family visiting the museums and such all of a sudden decide to check out an NPE like the capitol or whatnot. And I've trained with and rolled with enough LEOs to know my usual gear might raise a few eyebrows and invite closer scrutiny among cops so when I suspect an encounter with an LEO I don't know I might lose a blade or two. And combine that with the fact that we live in Virginia where the knife laws are pretty darn unclear then yes, in my 22 years in the area I've found occasion to chuck a blade or two. And if you find that amusing, or think it's more nobel to eat some knife charge one would have to fight in court than to chuck a $20 blade, I guess I'll just have to find a way to live with it

[HCM]

It's been awhile but back in the day I mailed my Spyderco folder to myself on a couple of occasions after taking public transit to an NPE.

[HCM]

On another note, does anyone have experience with the Cold Steel Mini Tac Skinner?

[Cookie Monster]

3619

Ask and you receive, it took me a while though.

Knife is really nice, came shaving sharp and a good size for pocket carry. I have larger knives that are more comfortable for IWB carry but my daily life is better with everything pocket carried. The reverse blade has taken some time to get used to, I still need some time.

Anytime I get come spare cash, I'll look at Joe's website

[El Cid]

My Rat trainer package arrived today. Much smaller than I pictured but very well balanced and very secure in the hand.

Some size comparison pics follow. My Gryphon feels quite large after handling the Rat.

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/IMG_6610_zpsaad90aa7.jpg

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/IMG_6611_zps7440c3bb.jpg

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/IMG_6612_zps9d552a2c.jpg

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/IMG_6613_zpsc0a213da.jpg

[voodoo_man]

Rats are small, but really sharp and deadly...dont underestimate them

[DamonL]

Does anyone know what steel is used for the RAT?

The handle does look like it is a better fit for small hands like some one mentioned earlier.

[El Cid]

Rats are small, but really sharp and deadly...dont underestimate them
Not at all. I'm very impressed with how size efficient it is.

[Dropkick]

Hey, that looks like the tactical knife you can get at the NRA Store!! :D
http://www.nrastore.com/gear/knives/nra-tactical-boot-neck-knife

[Hatchetman]

My Rat trainer package arrived today. Much smaller than I pictured but very well balanced and very secure in the hand.

Some size comparison pics follow. My Gryphon feels quite large after handling the Rat.



I'll be interested in hearing how you think the Rat compares to the Terzoula. I have his M10, M30, and M35 and they are some of my favorite production knives. The M35 is a beast and one of the best camp knives I've handled, while the M10 is a great small fighter. I keep meaning to pick up a second one and sharpen the false edge to see how that performs.

[Dave Williams]

The RAT looks quite similar to the CRKT Dragon, no?

[Hizzie]

The RAT looks quite similar to the CRKT Dragon, no?

Crawford Dragon is pretty big. More like a Folts minimalist.

[voodoo_man]

The RAT looks quite similar to the CRKT Dragon, no?

dragon is a wharncliffe edge, rat is a narrow spear point.

dragon is almost 2x size of rat, I have both I'll take pix

[Dave Williams]

dragon is a wharncliffe edge, rat is a narrow spear point.

dragon is almost 2x size of rat, I have both I'll take pix

Thanks.

[orionz06]

Had a HiTS knife sent in for a sheath. Not a tanto fan but holding this one and handling it may change my mind.

http://i.imgur.com/umJL7Oqh.jpg

[SeriousStudent]

Can you make another one of those if I send you some moolah? Or do I need to send mine in to be fitted?

[orionz06]

Would need the blade. I've found even the best makers aren't exact and the feel might not be optimal.

[SeriousStudent]

Gotcha. I have a couple of knives that need sheathes. I'll contact you offline and mail 'em.

[voodoo_man]

rat knife comparison.


http://i.imgur.com/Zwoou09.jpg

[orionz06]

The CRKT is quite thin for about 1/3 of the length. It was cheap as hell and I like it but I'm not sure it will see much kore use than sitting on a desk looking cool.

[voodoo_man]

The CRKT is quite thin for about 1/3 of the length. It was cheap as hell and I like it but I'm not sure it will see much kore use than sitting on a desk looking cool.

It makes a good letter opener....

[Totem Polar]

Would need the blade. I've found even the best makers aren't exact and the feel might not be optimal.

I'll be sure to strike up a conversation around this topic at PEP3.

[orionz06]

I'll be sure to strike up a conversation around this topic at PEP3.

It's nothing negative. Kydex is formed almost exactly to the blade and even the best makers won't always be exact. All depends on how they're made and what it CNC and what is hand.

[Totem Polar]

Oh no, I meant: "I have a handmade knife that could use new clothes". That's where the conversation should go. :D

[El Cid]

I'll be interested in hearing how you think the Rat compares to the Terzoula. I have his M10, M30, and M35 and they are some of my favorite production knives. The M35 is a beast and one of the best camp knives I've handled, while the M10 is a great small fighter. I keep meaning to pick up a second one and sharpen the false edge to see how that performs.

I love the M10. I have 3 of them. One is daily carry, one is on the front of my kit, and one is because they offered a full flat grind and I couldn't stop myself from buying it.

The handle on the Rat feels much more secure, as it should given the shape. I have pretty large hands and feel like if it was any smaller it wouldn't work for me. I'm of the opinion right now that the Rat is the smallest a fixed CCW blade should be, and the M10 is the largest. Almost like Glock 17 vs Glock 19. Either will do nicely for my needs and while I could see the Rat becoming my EDC blade, I won't be parting with my M10's. If the M10 has a drawback its that I can't find a trainer for it.

I was surprised to see the Rat is close in size to my Pitbull neck knife.

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/IMG_6651_zps55cc3edc.jpg

[Cheap Shot]

My Rat trainer package arrived today. Much smaller than I pictured but very well balanced and very secure in the hand.

Some size comparison pics follow. My Gryphon feels quite large after handling the Rat.

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/IMG_6610_zpsaad90aa7.jpg

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/IMG_6611_zps7440c3bb.jpg

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/IMG_6612_zps9d552a2c.jpg

Man I really really like that knife. I've struggled trying to justify buying for a long time, and the post above triggered a relapse in my recovery. Two things stop me from getting it:

1. illegal in my part of the world
2. cost

Subjectively speaking its the perfect blend of aesthetics, form and function for my needs. Equally important is that it can purchased with a trainer.

I've clicked on this thread to stare at the rat pic's more than half a dozen times. I'm hoping posting about it will provide me with some closure:).

[voodoo_man]

Man I really really like that knife. I've struggled trying to justify buying for a long time, and the post above triggered a relapse in my recovery. Two things stop me from getting it:

1. illegal in my part of the world
2. cost

Subjectively speaking its the perfect blend of aesthetics, form and function for my needs. Equally important is that it can purchased with a trainer.

I've clicked on this thread to stare at the rat pic's more than half a dozen times. I'm hoping posting about it will provide me with some closure:).

More rat pix to come ;)

Just an fyi, the blade has a lot improvements over other designs, it was specifically designed for carry by blade-guys who know how to fight with them. Not many blades have that pedigree.

[Cheap Shot]

More rat pix to come ;)

Just an fyi, the blade has a lot improvements over other designs, it was specifically designed for carry by blade-guys who know how to fight with them. Not many blades have that pedigree.

ENABLER!

*Just say no*
*Just say no*
*Checks thread for more pics*
*just say no*
*Technically its not illegal to "own" in my area, just carry*
*Just say:confused:

[voodoo_man]

ENABLER!

*Just say no*
*Just say no*
*Checks thread for more pics*
*just say no*
*Technically its not illegal to "own" in my area, just carry*
*Just say:confused:

Just do it bro, just one time, you wont regret it...


;)

[voodoo_man]

http://i.imgur.com/XUd7hMe.jpg

[Totem Polar]

^^^Smexy.

[Hatchetman]

Yeah, they do look like they'd slip through a rib cage without much issue. Wonder how that tip holds up to hard use.

[Pup town]

Yeah, they do look like they'd slip through a rib cage without much issue. Wonder how that tip holds up to hard use.

It is meant to be used to stick into a person. How much 'hard use' does it need to hold up to?

[breakingtime91]

It is meant to be used to stick into a person. How much 'hard use' does it need to hold up to?

well you know, stickin into people =)

[1slow]

It is meant to be used to stick into a person. How much 'hard use' does it need to hold up to?

Enough that a strong individual at full speed does not catastrophically break it if he hits a holstered knife, gun etc..... in the dark.

[Hatchetman]

Enough that a strong individual at full speed does not catastrophically break it if he hits a holstered knife, gun etc..... in the dark.

Exactly. And my experience as someone who used to run a knife 4 to 10 hours a day is that you don't learn about a knife's foibles the first time you deploy it, can't evaluate its cost to utility ratio without extensive use, and indeed have to manipulate a knife extensively to learn to use its geometry to your best, most effective, advantage.

For instance, when I worked as a chef I'd often bring a knife I was evaluating into work and put it through its paces. I'd hit the back dock and use baled cardboard to test a blade's ability to withstand repeated thrusts info a fairly tough medium. In high volume kitchens we use a lot of ingredients that come in #10 cans. When quickly opening these cans one of the lids would often end up getting tossed back into the box, that was then baled. If you hit one of these steel can lids with a blade you are thrusting into a cardboard bale there was a lot of stuff you could learn. One was how to develop a grip that didn’t leave your hand running up the blade when a hard object was encountered. Another was how well the tip of the knife dealt with sudden encounters with a steel lid.

Can lids are relatively soft, I’d guess 25 to 35 on the Rockwell scale. However I’d find that even a hard steel encountering a softer one could wear on—or snap—a knife tip, making those unexpected encounters with can lids something of a blessing in disguise: If the knife survived with nothing more than scratches then my belief is that it could stand up to other sorts of unintentional contacts with hard mediums without issue. If instead the blade was dinged or, worse yet, the tip was rounded or snapped, then I wasn’t convinced it was something I should carry for serious social purposes.

So, just eyeballing the Rat, I wonder how the tip would stand up to unexpected contact with a can lid, cell phone, or whatever. Indeed, though many consider the design passé these days, I like American tanto (as opposed by Japanese tanto) tip geometry as they are stout and stand up to contact with hard objects without much drama. Though the Rat looks like an ideal design for sewing machine type attacks, if the tip can’t stand up to a solid rib strike or whatever, then maybe more cost effective solutions should be explored.

[voodoo_man]

Exactly. And my experience as someone who used to run a knife 4 to 10 hours a day is that you don't learn about a knife's foibles the first time you deploy it, can't evaluate its cost to utility ratio without extensive use, and indeed have to manipulate a knife extensively to learn to use its geometry to your best, most effective, advantage.

For instance, when I worked as a chef I'd often bring a knife I was evaluating into work and put it through its paces. I'd hit the back dock and use baled cardboard to test a blade's ability to withstand repeated thrusts info a fairly tough medium. In high volume kitchens we use a lot of ingredients that come in #10 cans. When quickly opening these cans one of the lids would often end up getting tossed back into the box, that was then baled. If you hit one of these steel can lids with a blade you are thrusting into a cardboard bale there was a lot of stuff you could learn. One was how to develop a grip that didn’t leave your hand running up the blade when a hard object was encountered. Another was how well the tip of the knife dealt with sudden encounters with a steel lid.

Can lids are relatively soft, I’d guess 25 to 35 on the Rockwell scale. However I’d find that even a hard steel encountering a softer one could wear on—or snap—a knife tip, making those unexpected encounters with can lids something of a blessing in disguise: If the knife survived with nothing more than scratches then my belief is that it could stand up to other sorts of unintentional contacts with hard mediums without issue. If instead the blade was dinged or, worse yet, the tip was rounded or snapped, then I wasn’t convinced it was something I should carry for serious social purposes.

So, just eyeballing the Rat, I wonder how the tip would stand up to unexpected contact with a can lid, cell phone, or whatever. Indeed, though many consider the design passé these days, I like American tanto (as opposed by Japanese tanto) tip geometry as they are stout and stand up to contact with hard objects without much drama. Though the Rat looks like an ideal design for sewing machine type attacks, if the tip can’t stand up to a solid rib strike or whatever, then maybe more cost effective solutions should be explored.

It has been tested to a pretty high degree and was used extensively by its market before being put into production in the consumer market.

[Dave Williams]

It has been tested to a pretty high degree and was used extensively by its market before being put into production in the consumer market.

Can you briefly explain why it's preferable to the dynamis?

[1slow]

Assuming good steel and heat treating the point design looks like it would be tough enough.

There is always a geometry trade off. A ball bearing on a handle is about unbreakable but not good at cutting or stabbing. On the other hand a very thin edge and point geometry can cut and stab well until something hard is hit.
Good steel and heat treat can get minimize the performance / durability tradeoffs. On Bladeforums there is a maker Nathan the Machinist who make a thrusting 8'' blade knife using CPM 3V and posts some abuse tests, very impressive.
Look at European dagger design during various periods of varying types of armor to get an idea of the tradeoffs in point and edge design.

My sharp prybar is a Strider DB in .250'' CPM 3V. Not close to the best slicer or stabber but almost unbreakable. On the other hand blades I have with geometry like the Rat penetrate much better.
I have some 1/2'' + wall thickness 6'' + diameter cardboard tubes that I use for penetration tests. It shows some things about blade and handle design

[voodoo_man]

Can you briefly explain why it's preferable to the dynamis?

It totally depends on the person and their preference.

There is no "one" knife for everyone or every situation, anyone that says so is trying to sell you something.

The Rat blade has a pretty decent pedegree, cannot say the same of the dynamis.

[voodoo_man]

Why do you say that?

Inside knowledge.

;)

[LittleLebowski]

Who makes the Rat again?

[DI1]

Voodooman, I agree with your first statement, there is no one blade for everyone.
I call BS on your second, please state why you believe the pedigree is not there?
I have spoken to Kyle and Dom in person at length regarding their blade designs and don't understand why you would say that unless you have been drinking a lot of Sayoc Kool-Aid!
I have been studying knife and stick work for over 20 years and have not found a better fighter than the Dynamis/Winkler knife. I have had literally hundreds of knives pass through my hands over the years.

[voodoo_man]

Voodooman, I agree with your first statement, there is no one blade for everyone.
I call BS on your second, please state why you believe the pedigree is not there?
I have spoken to Kyle and Dom in person at length regarding their blade designs and don't understand why you would say that unless you have been drinking a lot of Sayoc Kool-Aid!
I have been studying knife and stick work for over 20 years and have not found a better fighter than the Dynamis/Winkler knife. I have had literally hundreds of knives pass through my hands over the years.

I guess you know better then I do then.

[DI1]

I guess you know better then I do then.

Not saying I know better, just wanted clarification of the lack of pedigree.

[Pup town]

Anything you can share? I'm genuinely curious, since I thought there was design input on both knives from guys with similar backgrounds. Admittedly, I'm just a tourist when it comes to such things so perhaps things aren't as they seem.

voodoo man has drunk the Sayoc tactical koolaid. You know, the guys that won't tell you their not-so-tactical background. They like little cryptic messages that would have you think they know more than they actually do. (Sayoc has a bunch of petty infighting too. I guess Dom fell out with Sayoc, like Tracker Dan did.)

That knife maybe the greatest self defense knife in history but it would still be overpriced.

[voodoo_man]

Anything you can share? I'm genuinely curious, since I thought there was design input on both knives from guys with similar backgrounds. Admittedly, I'm just a tourist when it comes to such things so perhaps things aren't as they seem.

Other than what has already been said, you can find the history behind them on their respective websites.

This was posted in 2013, figured I'd repost it since there is inquiry...

https://www.facebook.com/AliasTrainingLLC/posts/428007447325448

Any other question I'd suggest contacting the guy who makes them.

[DI1]

Other than what has already been said, you can find the history behind them on their respective websites.

This was posted in 2013, figured I'd repost it since there is inquiry...

https://www.facebook.com/AliasTrainingLLC/posts/428007447325448

Any other question I'd suggest contacting the guy who makes them.

What does any of that have to do with Dynamis blade?

[Hatchetman]

Whups, sorry wasn't seeking to open up any FMA school debate drama. Back in the days of Ray Terry's Eskrima Digest those were some of the most useless threads to partake of.

More than willing to take the word of those who've used 'em that the blade stands up to hard use. Trust you understand why I'd seek to evaluate a fighting knife with a filet blade geometry before I carried it. Me, I scavenge eBay and other sources so I can pick up blades I can cost effectively beat on.

[SLG]

What does any of that have to do with Dynamis blade?

My sensei can beat up your sensei. Nothing more.

[DamonL]

In post #96, I posted a link to Dom Raso explaining why the Dynamis knife was designed the way it was. Watching that video makes me think Dom had some Sayoc training.

[El Cid]

In post #96, I posted a link to Dom Raso explaining why the Dynamis knife was designed the way it was. Watching that video makes me think Dom had some Sayoc training.

Depending on the time frame everyone in that unit was exposed to Sayoc training.

[DI1]

My sensei can beat up your sensei. Nothing more.

My sensei is your sensei!!! ;)

[DamonL]

Assuming good steel and heat treating the point design looks like it would be tough enough.



I don't know what steel is used in the Rat.

[secondstoryguy]

I've handled both the Rat and the Dynamis. Both very well thought out knives with the sheath being the best part. I'm currently carrying a TD Bloodshark and I like it a lot. The Dynamis and Rat are both spendy but considering you are getting a custom blade, a custom sheath worth $75-100 and a nice aluminum trainer all for around $500-600 it is high but not horrible.

I have both the RAT and the Dynamis on my short list. I'm leaning towards the Dynamis as it looks slightly more utilitarian as far as use goes(it doesn't have the extra deep finger grooves like the RAT). I also like the blade steel that Winkler uses in the Dynamis and trust his work as I have had other knives made by him. I have emailed Elmore multiple times asking about the steel in the RAT knife but he has never given me a reply.

[DamonL]

Indeed, though many consider the design passé these days, I like American tanto (as opposed by Japanese tanto) tip geometry as they are stout and stand up to contact with hard objects without much drama. Though the Rat looks like an ideal design for sewing machine type attacks, if the tip can’t stand up to a solid rib strike or whatever, then maybe more cost effective solutions should be explored.

What tanto bladed knives did you test that you liked?

[DamonL]

Who makes the Rat again?

Headhunter Blades at Warrior Talk.

[voodoo_man]

In post #96, I posted a link to Dom Raso explaining why the Dynamis knife was designed the way it was. Watching that video makes me think Dom had some Sayoc training.

A lot of the stuff he puts out he learned from others. Capitalism and business are great things, no issue with that, but people sometimes forget to give credit for concepts and ideas before making them their own.

[Hatchetman]

What tanto bladed knives did you test that you liked?

Way back in the day Cold Steel's Recon Tanto was made similarly to it's regular ones, except they weren't polished/finished, just no frills. I've got one I carried for a long time and did all sorts of crazy stuff with that's help up fine. Indeed, I think the fact that the blade has nor been buffed to a stainless finish is why it basically looks the same after all these years. I've also a couple of their San Mai blades from a while back. Their current Recon line does not impress me.

I'm also a fan of Mineral Mountain Hatchet Works for workingman blades. I've got a couple of Ted's tantos that come to too fine a point for my tastes, but have held up well. Some Benchmade folders have held up well for me.

Picked up a Proelia folder with a newfangled multiple grind stout tanto tip. The blade is performing well, though the overall knife is too large to carry as an EDC folder in my estimation. Playing with an Emerson/Kershaw collaborations which has been performing well, though I don't like the thumb stud design it impacts its ease of use. Have an Emerson folder that has held up well over the years, though I gotta run it through the ultrasonic cleaner as pocket lint has gummed it up some.

Have a couple Entrek tantos, the Brute and Survivor if IIRC. They've been described as "sharpened crowbars" and are indeed beasts that live up to hard use. I've found Entrek handles too small for my large hands, but like his no frills design ethos. I doubtless have others that aren't leaping to mind.

[LittleLebowski]

Headhunter Blades at Warrior Talk.

$500 for the package with trainer?! Wish I was rich like you guys :D

http://orig11.deviantart.net/4c70/f/2014/165/b/1/3610923_3861298273_tumbl_by_oddandaelita4life-d7md4i2.gif

[El Cid]

$500 for the package with trainer?! Wish I was rich like you guys :D


I snagged mine during their Memorial Day weekend sale - $300.