Vickers Slide Stop and Premature Lock-Backs?

[ssb]

Two weeks ago, I installed a Vickers slide release on both of my Gen 4 G19s. The carry gun got 100rds of 124gr Blazer followed by 35rds of 124gr+P Speer Gold Dot (full load of ammo through my two carry mags). No issues were seen so I stuffed it back in its holster. My training gun got the same slide release, and has seen 450rds of various FMJ through it without issue.

Today when I went to the range, I drew my carry gun intending to fire the mag I had loaded. Nothing was changed since the last time I'd shot it -- same ammo that I'd put in the gun from the last visit. First round was followed by a premature lock-back. I cleared it and got going again. Fired again, same thing. At that point I cleared the gun and started trouble-shooting.

I tried a total of four different magazines and three brands of ammo (124gr CCI, 115gr WWB, 124gr+P GD). I had a total of seven premature lock-backs:
- The chambered round + first two rounds in the mag described above (3 total)
- G19 training mag #3, WWB, round 10 of 15
- G17 training mag #1, CCI, round 7 of 17
- G19 training mag #2, CCI, round 2 of 15
- G19 carry mag, GD, round 3 of 15

I made it through one full magazine of 15rds, using CCI and mag #3.

I did not have a punch with me so I couldn't take the gun down at the range, but I suspected an improperly-installed slide stop. I checked it when I got home, however, and it appears to be installed properly.

Problems I think it could be:
- Improperly installed release (re-installed, but it looked normal)
- Broken release (appears OK)
- Ammo issue
- Magazine issue
- Grip issue (hasn't shown up on my training gun as of yet)

Plan is to go back to the range tonight with some FMJs, Gold Dots, and some HSTs as well as a punch, an OEM slide stop, and an OEM extended slide stop to see if I can isolate the problem. Is there any other troubleshooting I should be doing?

[GJM]

It has happened to me on .40 and 10mm pistols. I am completely satisfied with the two OEM choices, and removed all my Vickers slide stops some years ago, and never looked back.

[Kyle Reese]

This happened to me on Gen 3 and 4 9mm Glocks, and I'm using the OEM units now without issue.


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[DocGKR]

I went back to OEM parts.

[JHC]

It has happened to me on .40 and 10mm pistols. I am completely satisfied with the two OEM choices, and removed all my Vickers slide stops some years ago, and never looked back.

^ same in two 9mm pistols and I took it off and stuck with OEM.

[ssb]

All right, thanks guys. I'll test it out tonight but I guess I'll probably just learn to live with the OEM slide stop.

[JV_]

The Vickers slide stop was a great idea, but it was poorly executed on many levels.

[TR675]

^^ Where do you think the execution went wrong?

[JV_]

2 main reasons.

1. The springs are junk

2. They made it hold the slide more closed than a standard slide stop - when at slide lock. That makes inserting a fully loaded mag more difficult (on some guns) because the top round bumps in to the loading ramp on the under side of the slide. That was done by design, see this thread: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?5521-G19-FTFeed-first-round-of-slidelock-reload&p=94075&viewfull=1#post94075

[JHC]

2 main reasons.

1. The springs are junk

2. They made it hold the slide more closed than a standard slide stop - when at slide lock. That makes inserting a fully loaded mag more difficult (on some guns) because the top round bumps in to the loading ramp on the under side of the slide. That was done by design, see this thread: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?5521-G19-FTFeed-first-round-of-slidelock-reload&p=94075&viewfull=1#post94075

I'm reminded how they lit into early adopters on another forum when said early adopters suggested issues with this holy accessory.

[TR675]

Great, thank you. I've got one on a 3rd gen G19 that I threw in the back of the safe after it started BTF'ing me as soon as I started shooting it. If I ever fix that issue I'll take another look at the Vickers release.

[MD7305]

I too had issues with some early units and went back to standard, oem parts and I honestly haven't missed the Vickers part.

[breakingtime91]

I use the oem extended and love it. I did have one premature lock back within the first two mags after I installed it. A word with my support hand solved that issue...

[ssb]

Returned to OEM slide release, fired:

- 33rds Speer Gold Dot 124gr+P
- 140rds Federal P9HST2
- 50rds Fiocci 115gr FMJ
- 50rds Speer Lawman 124gr

All rounds fired without issue. The OEM release is a little difficult for me to hit, but for reliability's sake I'll make do. I went ahead and confirmed where I was hitting with the P9HST2 and then swapped my carry mags over to that load since I'm now out of Gold Dots.

[breakingtime91]

Returned to OEM slide release, fired:

- 33rds Speer Gold Dot 124gr+P
- 140rds Federal P9HST2
- 50rds Fiocci 115gr FMJ
- 50rds Speer Lawman 124gr

All rounds fired without issue. The OEM release is a little difficult for me to hit, but for reliability's sake I'll make do. I went ahead and confirmed where I was hitting with the P9HST2 and then swapped my carry mags over to that load since I'm now out of Gold Dots.

have your tried the extended oem?

[ssb]

have your tried the extended oem?

I have. My grip tends to push it down and the gun doesn't lock back, which is why I bought the Vickers parts in the first place.

[warpedcamshaft]

I'm reminded how they lit into early adopters on another forum when said early adopters suggested issues with this holy accessory.

Were they warned?

:)

[HopetonBrown]

I've recently removed the Vickers slide releases because my thumbs forward grip was causing the slide to not lock back. I still think his mag release is good stuff.

[Byron]

Add me to the list of people who gave up on the Vickers slide stop after repeated issues with the slide locking back prematurely (G17 and G19)


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[TCinVA]

I just use the Glock 34 extended release and some 3M safety tape to help anchor my weak hand and prevent unintentional activation.

[orionz06]

Can't use them for the same reasons.

[MDS]

It sucks cause I really like the Vickers part. After I switched back to OEM I tried a slew of other slide locks, including some very doofy shit that looked like etsy projects. I even ruined a couple of parts with pliers trying to replicate that solid ledge feeling, to no avail. I settled on the OEM extended release, it doesn't seem to slip when wet like the standard release, but I got spoiled by the feel of the Vickers part and I wish someone would make a clone without the issues.

[johncorey]

Wow, I had not heard of so many issues from so many different legit shooters with the Vickers SS. I will have to keep my eyes open on this issue.

From my personal experience, I have had zero issues with mine. All my Glocks sport them. I had one bad mag follower which turned out to be the culprit for a perceived SS issue, but that's about it. Prior to the Vickers part being released, I utilized the extended OEM SS. Even after concentrating/working on my support hand position, those would give me more problems than not.

Actually was just dry firing a bone stock pistol and found the regular OEM to not be as bad as I remembered. Lots of choices for sure beyond those already mentioned.

[orionz06]

I just use the Glock 34 extended release and some 3M safety tape to help anchor my weak hand and prevent unintentional activation.

Gonna try this. I'm not gonna go and NOT modify a gun based on IDPA SSP but making changes that throw me out generally cost a lot more when you wanna do them to 5-10 guns. This is free and cheap, if it works it works.

[1slow]

I used the Vickers slide stop extensively on several pistols and had no issues. THEN I had several that were manufactured wrong and did not work or fit properly.

[JHC]

I used the Vickers slide stop extensively on several pistols and had no issues. THEN I had several that were manufactured wrong and did not work or fit properly.

The first time I saw that suggested on another forum a company rep told the guy his gun(s) were more likely out of spec. True story. ;)

[TCinVA]

Gonna try this. I'm not gonna go and NOT modify a gun based on IDPA SSP but making changes that throw me out generally cost a lot more when you wanna do them to 5-10 guns. This is free and cheap, if it works it works.

Works beautifully for me. And you're right...it's cheap as chips.

Strategically applied 3M Safety Tape is a fantastic bang-for-buck modification, IMO.


The first time I saw that suggested on another forum a company rep told the guy his gun(s) were more likely out of spec. True story. ;)

That's a particularly stupid answer, IMO...but there is a nugget of truth there. Gun companies often make small dimensional changes on pistols that can impact the fit and function of aftermarket parts. They don't usually tell anyone when they do this so it can logically lead to a lot of confusion.

[ssb]

Works beautifully for me. And you're right...it's cheap as chips.

Strategically applied 3M Safety Tape is a fantastic bang-for-buck modification, IMO.

Can you take a picture of what you're doing? I played with my 3M tape and I think I'm doing it wrong.

[TCinVA]

http://www.gunnuts.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/photo-1.jpg

Pretty much that.

EDIT - also, GRIP-ZONE!!!!!

[41magfan]

That's a particularly stupid answer, IMO...but there is a nugget of truth there. Gun companies often make small dimensional changes on pistols that can impact the fit and function of aftermarket parts. They don't usually tell anyone when they do this so it can logically lead to a lot of confusion.

That's been my experience as well. There are enough dimensional differences in Glocks of the same production run to make this a fairly routine matter of fact. Having previously done armorer duties on a fairly large number of guns of a similar lot #, I can tell you that just because the parts "fit" doesn't mean they always perform to the same level.

[Chance]

They made it hold the slide more closed than a standard slide stop - when at slide lock. That makes inserting a fully loaded mag more difficult (on some guns) because the top round bumps in to the loading ramp on the under side of the slide. That was done by design, see this thread: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?5521-G19-FTFeed-first-round-of-slidelock-reload&p=94075&viewfull=1#post94075

Just for the sake of my own curiosity, what was the rationale for not holding the slide back as far?

[LSP972]

I can tell you that just because the parts "fit" doesn't mean they always perform to the same level.

Man, you got THAT right! I still have nightmares about that batch of 686s we got with the floating hands…


.

[JV_]

what was the rationale for not holding the slide back as far?Dunno, but he said .005" under was "well within acceptable tolerance."

I have no idea how they know what Glock's specified tolerances are without their design details.

All I know is that I've never had this issue with an OEM release, but I have had it with theirs. I suspect they decided what was within acceptable tolerances, not Glock, and I suspect they're wrong.

[SLG]

Have any of you talked to Jeff Cahill about these problems you've had? He's a very approachable guy, and he stands behind his products.

[JV_]

No, I don't know who he is. I was dealing with Todd Smith @ TD.

He offered me a refund, but I really just wanted a better designed/implemented product.

[SLG]

Jeff Cahill is the owner of Tango Down. I've dealt with him professionally and personally for years, and he has always gone out of his way to make things happen.

[MDS]

Thanks for the info, I'll ping him and see what happens. I was really bummed when I had to switch to a different part.

[JV_]

I'll ping him and see what happens.

Great, you can run with it. I can forward you the emails I had with Todd Smith if it will help provide some background information. LMK if you want them.

[GJM]

I don't understand the appeal of this particular after market part. It isn't legal in USPSA Production. There are two excellent OEM options, the standard and extended slide stop, that cost a fraction of the Vickers part, and have been tested in literally millions of pistols. The extended can be trimmed if desired, for an intermediate sized part.

I experienced premature lock back in .40 and 10mm Glock pistols. This is what Mr. Vickers said at the time:

When we were developing the slide stop we were going off a compatability chart we found ( not having every model of Glock made to try it ourselves )

When the Vickers part initially came out, it was the hotness, and recommended by, and for, all the cool kids. I ended up with more of them than I would like to admit. I pulled every one off my pistols, and handed a bag of them to my 1911 shop in CT.

[GRV]

I had the Vicker's part on my 19gen4 for a while. Probably 3000 rounds without issue. I found the best part of it to be the extremely confident, positive-feedback ability of locking the slide open when unloading or (hypothetically) clearing double-feed malfunctions. However, when I started experimenting with a much higher support hand grip, it got downright painful. It would literally dig into my palm below my thumb.

It was then that I switched to the OEM standard-size part. I was surprised to find locking the slide back not as bad as I remembered, just not as positive-feedback as the Vickers, but totally acceptable. I must have long fingers because I never (*knocks on wood*) miss hitting it on a reload. I still have some grip work to do as even with the stock part and my newer high grip I occasionally prevent it from locking back on the last round. In the last few trips I had one or two premature lock backs too, which is a first for me. The issue is that my support hand sits right on it, but this has been improving over time. I can't imagine what I'd be doing with the OEM extended or Vickers parts right now.

Back when Todd was doing the G17 endurance test, he mentioned that the stock part needed to replaced every 3500 rnds due to spring failure whereas the Vickers part lasted 25000 rnds. Has anyone else reproduced that data? How often do you all swap the stock part out?

[DocGKR]

Never.

[SLG]

FWIW, I've never needed to change a stock part because of rd count. My first 19 went almost 75,000 rds before I retired it. My Gen 3 22's have gone 5-10,000 rds before something else deadlined them. My current and only Gen 4 22 is over the 3500 mark, and no sign of any issues yet. YMMV.

[GJM]

FWIW, I've never needed to change a stock part because of rd count. My first 19 went almost 75,000 rds before I retired it. My Gen 3 22's have gone 5-10,000 rds before something else deadlined them. My current and only Gen 4 22 is over the 3500 mark, and no sign of any issues yet. YMMV.

Recoil springs, especially in the G3 22?

[SLG]

Nah, I always changed them every 2-3,000 rds.

Two of the Gen 3 22's had terminal pitting in the breach face. Another broke slide locks pretty regularly, like almost every 1,000 rds. No idea why, but it was a late 90's gun, and a friend had similar experiences back then as well.

[Chance]

I don't understand the appeal of this particular after market part.

With my hyperhidrosis, my hands are always soaked. Working the standard slide stop was effectively impossible for me, and the Vickers part seemed like the perfect solution. I was hitherto in love with it, and am really disappointed to hear it's giving people problems. I hope Tango Down and Larry get it squared away.

[orionz06]

I wouldn't say it's a design issue. The shape of the Vickers part is pretty close to ideal, I'd say it's more the position and lack of surrounding frame that causes the palm meat to force lock backs.

[Byron]

I wouldn't say it's a design issue. The shape of the Vickers part is pretty close to ideal, I'd say it's more the position and lack of surrounding frame that causes the palm meat to force lock backs.
Right or wrong, that was my personal conclusion. The Vickers part makes it much easier to intentionally lock the slide back. Unfortunately that meant it also made it much easier for me to unintentionally lock the slide back.


Have any of you talked to Jeff Cahill about these problems you've had? He's a very approachable guy, and he stands behind his products.
I never contacted anyone at Tango Down because I just figured my grip didn't get along well with the part, and it was less than $20.

By the time I read people were bending the springs to make them work (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?3534-Problems-with-Tangodown-Vickers-Slide-Release), I had already given up on them. I was tempted to try bending the spring, then decided I didn't want to dick around with a part that way, and that the OEM wasn't so bad after all.

[JV_]

Bending the spring is a temporary solution.

[sig765]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/02/5de0d59e9480dbcf5053c9df91f2d0bc.jpg
Lower FDE Glock is a vickers w slide stop, sights and mag release. Zero issues other then btf go figure. Easy fix 30274 ejectors on both guns.
Top is a g17 shaved to accept g19 mags and stippled by me.
If gun prematurely locks I say fix it. If it doesn't lock back it's a tap rack situation anyway fix it n get back to fighting. Imo you don't even need a a SS unless your required to lock n show clear at competition or range. All malfunctions are tap rack or rip n reload no need to lock back on a double feed just waste time.


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[orionz06]

Have any of you talked to Jeff Cahill about these problems you've had? He's a very approachable guy, and he stands behind his products.

I did not. As mentioned already I did not view it as a problem with their product but instead a concern with the Glock frame itself, not fencing in the SS. Even when I held one of Larry's guns in a class before it came out my palm meat was a personal concern. To me that's not worth the time of the mfg. of the product, it's on me. I would rank it up there with things like the BAD Lever, things I wish worked for me because they're very slick.


That said... Looking at how the G43 sits in my hand makes me wonder if it might work there.