" Cultivate a Warrior Mindset "

[SamAdams]

I'd like to open a broad conversation on the topic of a 'warrior mindset'.

Some background - Recently, I emailed an article that detailed the murder of two college students (one girl and one boy) who were abducted from a parking lot. The article listed a number of lessons to be learned - including the importance of situational awareness and of being trained to defend yourself effectively.
I sent this to a number of adult men in our extended family. I was quite surprised by one of the replies
I received. He asked that I no longer send him such articles, that it took some effort 'to get the mental images out' of his head. I sent a reasonable reply back, explaining that the whole point was to note the lessons to be learned and how they might help improve ones own level of safety. His reply - " I understand, but please don't send me any more articles like that. " - This male family member is 6'3" and in good shape with an athletic build. He was a jock all his life and continues to play sports for fun as an adult.

Another man in our family had a concealed carry permit, but did not renew it when it was about to expire. Given that the permit costs about $10 per year and that they pay far more for Costco membership, - money isn't the issue. He enjoys when we go to a local range and is considering getting a 9mm 'for fun'. But, there is a definite change of atmosphere when I mention the terminal ballistics and ammo choice information presented on this website. Punching holes 'for fun' is fine, but considering how that weapon might actually need to be used to defend against violence isn't something they want to give much thought to. This man was also an athlete in his younger days.

I must admit to thinking (hoping?) that given enough information, people will respond appropriately. I have seen plenty of evidence that this isnt always true. This recent experience with the first man I mentioned, drove this home. He actively and aggressively avoids information regarding violence by criminals.

So, do some have a personality which better enables them to cultivate a warrior mentality ? Are people like those I mentioned above only likely to change after they have been victimized (or someone they know) ?
I've also noted that size and physical ability aren't necessarily any indicators of a warrior mindset. I've known big guys who were wimps & who would give up easily, and little guys who were freakin' pit bulls. Some of the big guys used their size as a shield to intimidate others, but there was little else behind it.

I look forward to reading your thoughts on this broad topic. Thank you

[JHC]

I dunno. I'm beginning to think it's as much genetics as social programming. Some just cannot seem to "get" it.

[Peally]

That male needs to grow a pair and grab his ass out of the garden of pansies ;)

People in general are fruity rainbow farts when it comes to the real world, nothing you can really do (and it's sad considering the disrespect towards the world they grow from that mentality). That you actually bother sending out that sort of thing to folks you know in general is more than I'd bother to do beyond people I know will certainly get something out of it.

Call me cranky, but some people could have their first born shot in the head right in front of them and they'd continue with the rainbow fart mentality. Some people are wired for failure.

[voodoo_man]

Kyle Defoor summarizes the concept pretty well here - https://youtu.be/4vPCqMo9TCg

I have heard a very long, 3+ hour talk about about mindset on several occasions from Tom Kier, Defoor mentions him in the video.

Awareness, Preparedness and Willingness.

Those three form a triangle and you must have all three in order to properly affect an event or circumstance.

Your 6'3" male family member may be prepared (physically) and may have the awareness and able to see something before it happens, but is he willing to act? Is he prepared mentally? You can't have two out of three, you have to have all three or the triangle falls apart.

Your other family member who let his CCW expire may have relaxed to the point he no longer believes he needs a pistol in order to keep himself, and his family, safe. Just speculating, but there is always a reason. Maybe he's not willing to kill someone.

I touched on this topic and the concept of "dying well" in an article I wrote on my blog --> Get in the Fight (http://vdmsr.blogspot.com/2014/10/get-in-fight.html).

[SecondsCount]

Most people don't take their own security serious until something bad happens that is close to home. Here in Utah we saw a huge spike in concealed carry permit applications when the Trolley Square shooting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_Square_shooting) happened. This took place in what most would be considered a very safe area.

Today, I would bet that 50% of those new permit holders never renewed.

[Peally]

Hilariously sad how a decision like that is treated the same as dieting for a week and giving up. You simply can't fix most people with that mindset, unless by chance they survive something that shocks them for life AND they do something productive with that shock.

[Guinnessman]

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/GuinessMan/nevergiveup_zpsrf8d5y2o.jpg

Warrior Mindset in one picture.

[TCinVA]

At "Unthinkable" William Aprill mentioned a conversation he had with a very pleasant lady who, in New Orleans, refused to lock her door. After a lot of back and forth...and a number of attempts at high-level psychology...it boiled down to her refusing to live in a world where she had to lock doors.

You cannot fix that. When someone hits that point trying to argue it is pulling at one of the fundamental threads of how they see themselves and how they've chosen to make sense of the world around them. They won't allow anyone to tug at it because they know the whole thing will come unraveled...and that's intolerable for them.

This same phenomenon explains a whole lot that's wrong with our politics, too...but that's another topic.

Fantastic (in the original sense of that word) perspectives on the world are most possible where people have little or no experience with the gritty realities of it. Modern society allows a lot of distance between the average person and the gritty realities of how they get food, how they get power, how they get an iPhone, and how their lives are not dominated or ended by violent tribal warlords.

[Dropkick]

They're not going to change their behavior because that would mean changing their beliefs on what the world is like.

The beliefs of a lot of people out there are: "the world is a good place" and "that stuff doesn't happen here" and "that couldn't possibly happen to me."

Beliefs can be developed through direct and indirect experiences, but without being open new experiences beliefs rarely change.

This can be applied to self defense, politics, religion, the world is not flat...

[SamAdams]

Fantastic (in the original sense of that word) perspectives on the world are most possible where people have little or no experience with the gritty realities of it. Modern society allows a lot of distance between the average person and the gritty realities of how they get food, how they get power, how they get an iPhone, and how their lives are not dominated or ended by violent tribal warlords.

Excellent point. John Taylor Gatto was NY state and NYC Public School Teacher of the Year (several times if I recall). He had taught everywhere from uptown to Harlem. He expected much from the children, and thats what he got in terms of performance. (He had to hide his actual teaching methodology from the school administration). Gatto found that once you got passed the social conventions/niceties (and he taught the kids this) that the Harlem kids performed as well as the kids from more privileged backgrounds. And, in many ways, the Harlem kids outperformed the kids from richer families. The poor kids were much better at learning tasks which involved uncertainty & required improvisation. Gatto said the difference is that the kids from wealthier families grew up in a world where there were no predators. Parents stepped in to handle situations that went wrong for their kids.

[SamAdams]

By the way - in his reply the first man wrote "There's evil in the world. But, I choose to not spend time on that. "

I suspected what his attitudes are from past conversations. Again, I had hoped it was just a matter of his needing more information. But this email exchange cleared up that misconception.

[Peally]

Must be nice. I wish I was 12 years old without any grasp of the world just like he still is. How can you seriously respect yourself when you take a worldview like that? Does he not have a responsibility to anyone around him at all?

Rhetorical, I know the answers. They're sad and ineffective. Just irkes me.

[TR675]

I guess I have a little bit of a different take on this.

We've all got a limited amount of brainpower to devote to things to worry about. Being a responsible gun owner and preparing yourself mentally to use a firearm the way many people on this board do is expensive in time, money, and mental effort. On the other hand, being the victim of violence is, in many parts of the country, a black swan type of event. So, a lot of effort to prepare for a possibly unlikely event. Not a big deal if this is also your hobby, but it is a big deal if not.

If my friends/relatives/acquaintances have different priorities than I do - I try to cut them a bit of slack. Their reluctance to prioritize things in their life the same way I do is understandable.

[Clusterfrack]

I know people who feel that being prepared to defend against a violent attack somehow invites trouble.

[Robinson]

I've been a traditional Okinawan martial arts instructor for a long time and I've seen more than a few decent martial artists who I really didn't think had the ability to "flip the switch" even when they advanced to somewhat senior ranks. They performed the techniques properly with power and focus, trained hard, and were in good shape but just didn't "get it" when it came to actual fighting. They also tended not to be in it for the long haul though. There are ways to try to teach it, but people are not all equally receptive or even interested in going beyond theory.

[breakingtime91]

I know people who feel that being prepared to defend against a violent attack somehow invites trouble.

same here. My wife is currently active duty (officer) in the AF. I am often looked at for being weird when people notice I carry a flashlight and a knife...not sure how they would feel to realize I am carrying a gun. I have given up trying to explain to them why I do certain things and now I just refer to it as "habit". Some people don't want to know what they don't know, and it no longer bothers me. My main priority is my growing family and their well being, that is what keeps my "warrior mindset" sharp. What does bother me is these individuals are ACTIVE DUTY MILITARY, it drives me crazy but I realize I come from a different branch/background.

[Mr_White]

I know people who feel that being prepared to defend against a violent attack somehow invites trouble.

Ah yes, The Law of Attraction. I know it well - certain family members enabled my bike to get stolen when I was a little kid because they semiconsciously subscribe to that stupid idea and so let my bike sit out unattended while they thought positive things. Then it got stolen, duh.

[EricM]

By the way - in his reply the first man wrote "There's evil in the world. But, I choose to not spend time on that."

It does take an investment of time, money, effort, etc. to equip and train oneself to skillfully resist a criminal attack. Avoid doing stupid things with stupid people in stupid places, or however that saying goes, and your exposure to such events decreases. Maybe he's done the math and made an educated choice to spend his time on other things. Or maybe he's chosen bury his head in the sand rather than recognize that bad things can happen to good people even in the nice areas of town. Could make a case either way, or maybe it's a bit of both.

I think each of us has our own reasons for taking the steps we take to protect ourselves and those close to us, our own path that led us to where we are now (or where we are working to be). For me it was gradual thing later in life. If 15 years ago you'd sent me what you sent him, I probably would've thought wow, that's nuts, I'll be a bit more vigilant. While I wouldn't have complained about such things being brought to my attention, I also wouldn't really have changed anything, perceiving my actual risk to be low. Some years ago after my grandfather passed away, my family came across a pistol while going through his things (sadly, it was long neglected). That sparked my interest in buying a gun and learning to shoot -- I'd enjoyed air guns as a kid but had never shot an actual firearm. After casually shooting for a few years (casually in terms of not being focused on defensive or competitive applications, not casual in terms of safety or anything like that), it was kind of nagging at me that I have some measure of shooting skill but if I'm out around town and some asshole starts shooting up the place, there's not much I can do about it without a gun. A while later I got my permit to carry...a while after that I really started carrying consistently. Didn't take long to realize the gun wasn't a magic solution, which led me to ECQC. And I'm still working on things from there.

It's an interesting topic to think of how to (or if you can) advance someone's warrior mindset, protective drive, or whatever you want to call it. I do believe some people would be fundamentally unwilling to change or incapable of changing (some unless it "happened to them"...others even then). Myself, I think I was open to it all along, and I wish someone had given me a nudge in that direction earlier in life. Who knows, perhaps all it would've taken is for my father or grandfather to take me shooting, or maybe enroll me in a martial arts class, and that would've kicked off this whole process a lot sooner. If I could do it all over, having the perspective I have now, I'd do just about everything differently from the beginning of high school onward and join the military after graduation (one of my greatest regrets now is that I didn't serve). Sometimes it's easy for me to get frustrated at what could have been if only I'd had my head on straight earlier in life (not that I floundered, just had different priorities). Above anything else now, my goal is to set a good example for my young daughter. She's free to choose her own path, but I'd like her to have a head start on things it took me a long time to learn.

Out of curiosity re: the OP...did you only send these articles to the adult men in your family, or did it just happen that only the response from the men was notable?

[SamAdams]

@EricM - yes I only sent the email to some of the men in the family. I actually thought it might encourage a discussion and perhaps the desire to seek further training, that we might have been able to attend together. So far, the other three men that I sent the email to havent responded.
In matters of physical defense, the women seem to defer to their husbands in our family.

[JHC]

I can only cut able bodied males so much slack in this area.

Here is one of finest essays I've ever seen on the topic. http://www.artofmanliness.com/2014/04/07/what-is-the-core-of-masculinity/

[Trooper224]

I once worked for a Captain who didn't carry off duty, because he "didn't want to put his family in danger". Just because someone is a cop, a military service member, an athlete (how people automatically equate being a jock with having a warrior mindset has always boggled me) or whatever, doesn't make them a warrior. Some of the truest warriors I've ever known were none of those things. Some of the biggest pussies I've known were all of those things. The fact is that some are warriors and some aren't, there's no way to change it. Also, just because someone doesn't fit into our personal view of what an individual should be it doesn't mean they have nothing to contribute. In a noble society it is the responsibility of the strong to protect the weak.

[Trooper224]

I can only cut able bodied males so much slack in this area.

Here is one of finest essays I've ever seen on the topic. http://www.artofmanliness.com/2014/04/07/what-is-the-core-of-masculinity/

Outstanding.

[TR675]

I can only cut able bodied males so much slack in this area.

Here is one of finest essays I've ever seen on the topic. http://www.artofmanliness.com/2014/04/07/what-is-the-core-of-masculinity/

That is a good essay.

[SamAdams]

Thank you everyone for your insightful comments. Are those who display a warrior mindset born rather than strictly trained to be that way ?
The first man I mentioned in the original post is a 'good guy'. Almost generous to a fault. Easy going and good company. In many ways very likeable. - I also know a gal who isn't even 5 foot tall, around 100 lbs or so. She's an ER nurse. Cool headed and decisive type. Also has a sense of humor when things go tits up or something unexpected hits - Ive observed this in her. Regardless of her small stature, that woman definitely has the right mindset.

@JHC - thanks for posting that great essay link

[JHC]

80/20 rule, mostly innate. But harsh experience can probably convert many.

[Kyle Reese]

I once worked for a Captain who didn't carry off duty, because he "didn't want to put his family in danger".

No matter how hard I try, this line of reasoning makes no sense to me.

[mc1911]

I don't know the OP's friends but just in general, I wouldn't be too quick to write someone off as being a wuss just because he doesn't want to read an article that might have details he doesn't want painted in his head. I don't like reading those articles because I prefer not to have certain images in my brain, either. The thing is, I don't have to have gory images in my head to know that they can happen. I can still pay attention to what's happening around me and have an awareness that evil exists and could pop up in my reach. I can also be reasonably prepared to deal with it without reading articles that might have gory details about people who weren't ready.

In my neck of the woods, some nasty stuff happened to a couple who was abducted several years ago and frankly, I wish I'd never read so much about it. It was enough to be reminded that things can happen without all the details about exactly what happened.

[Redhat]

Hasn't the USMC done quite a bit of work in this area?

[LSP552]

I once worked for a Captain who didn't carry off duty, because he "didn't want to put his family in danger". Just because someone is a cop, a military service member, an athlete (how people automatically equate being a jock with having a warrior mindset has always boggled me) or whatever, doesn't make them a warrior. Some of the truest warriors I've ever known were none of those things. Some of the biggest pussies I've known were all of those things. The fact is that some are warriors and some aren't, there's no way to change it. Also, just because someone doesn't fit into our personal view of what an individual should be it doesn't mean they have nothing to contribute. In a noble society it is the responsibility of the strong to protect the weak.

Can't be said better!

[LSP552]

No matter how hard I try, this line of reasoning makes no sense to me.


You would be SHOCKED at the percentage of cops who don't carry off-duty for a variety of bullshit reasons.

[breakingtime91]

Hasn't the USMC done quite a bit of work in this area?

I had the opprutonity to go to quite a few speeches from people like Col Grossman

[Redhat]

I had the opprutonity to go to quite a few speeches from people like Col Grossman

I figure they've spent more time on developing and testing the "warrior mindset" than most.

[GJM]

If you are serious about getting them involved, you might refrain from calling it a warrior mindset. To many, "warrior "is not a positive.

True story, long time very liberal friend just returned yesterday from her son's graduation from boot camp. She was gushing about it, and in particular with this incredible thing her son was taught -- "situational awareness." She went on to say, "everyone should be exposed to this amazing concept." As if knowing me for twenty years, riding across the country in planes I flew through all sorts of weather, being outside with me near bears, she didn't realize that others had previously been exposed to this magical SA thing.

Now if you explained it in terms of being mindful of the environment, so as to avoid danger, and keep his or her family safe, I suspect you would get better buy in, as opposed to appealing to those that think of themselves now or aspire to be warriors.

[rob_s]

What is it with the gun community, especially those <5 years in to the "defensive" side of it, and the need to evangelize their opinions to everyone else? It's worse than the goddamn Moonies.

Somewhere there is a post on a local adult football league forum in the "general discussion" section titled "why does my psycho cousin think everyone is out to get him?" Which goes on to detail the graphic news articles about violent crime that said militia-type cousin continuously sends to the author and other family members, despite repeated requests to stop.

It's not your job to "fix" people. In fact, it's not "fixing" at all. At best it's some insecure need to bring other people over to your way of thinking in order to validate your opinions and actions, many of which are probably nowhere near as logical as you'd like to think they are. Do your thing, let them do theirs. Chances are you'll both live a long and happy life, him with his Costco membership and you with your CWP. The less you beat these people over the head with your opinions and simply enjoy one another's company when you see each other, the greater the chance for said happiness.

[Hambo]

I don't know the OP's friends but just in general, I wouldn't be too quick to write someone off as being a wuss just because he doesn't want to read an article that might have details he doesn't want painted in his head. I don't like reading those articles because I prefer not to have certain images in my brain, either. The thing is, I don't have to have gory images in my head to know that they can happen. I can still pay attention to what's happening around me and have an awareness that evil exists and could pop up in my reach. I can also be reasonably prepared to deal with it without reading articles that might have gory details about people who weren't ready.

In my neck of the woods, some nasty stuff happened to a couple who was abducted several years ago and frankly, I wish I'd never read so much about it. It was enough to be reminded that things can happen without all the details about exactly what happened.

I can't remember what life was like before I saw this stuff firsthand. Hence it's hard for me to remember that there are still virgins out there who have never seen or contemplated violence. I'm not saying that people should immerse themselves in graphic videos or articles, but if you don't have a taste of it you cannot possibly imagine what human beings will do to each other. That might be what sets off the alarm bell early, or it might be what you reach down and grab for inspiration when it all goes bad.

That said, I am not the risk manager for everyone I know.

[SamAdams]

@rob_s Lots of assumptions there, all of them completely off the mark in this particular case. But perhaps you were talking in a general sense. I do agree with some of your points, however.

IMO there's nothing outrageous in sending an article to people which contains stated lessons regarding personal security.
My response, to the first man's reply, was quite low key. 'Preachy' just doesn't work with people - especially men. I expressed some of my thoughts about his response here, but not to him. That would be counterproductive. His emotional overreaction to an article is outside my control.
Furthermore, I only send such information to the adult men in my own family or to friends who already have a like mindset. I personally care about the safety of these people and their families. (If anyone else first brings up the subject, I'll talk with them about it. But not before that.) One of the lessons from the article was the mother of one of the college kid victims saying to teach your kids how to defend themselves. The second 'Costco guy' family member has two kids who just entered a college on the other side of the state. If that article helps motivate them to better prepare, that would be great.

[JHC]

@rob_s Lots of assumptions there, all of them completely off the mark in this particular case. But perhaps you were talking in a general sense. I do agree with some of your points, however.

IMO there's nothing outrageous in sending an article to people which contains stated lessons regarding personal security.
My response, to the first man's reply, was quite low key. 'Preachy' just doesn't work with people - especially men. I expressed some of my thoughts about his response here, but not to him. That would be counterproductive. His emotional overreaction to an article is outside my control.
Furthermore, I only send such information to the adult men in my own family or to friends who already have a like mindset. I personally care about the safety of these people and their families. (If anyone else first brings up the subject, I'll talk with them about it. But not before that.) One of the lessons from the article was the mother of one of the college kid victims saying to teach your kids how to defend themselves. The second 'Costco guy' family member has two kids who just entered a college on the other side of the state. If that article helps motivate them to better prepare, that would be great.

Yes I didn't take that this outreach was to "everyone". I don't pursue folks that have no interest but when friends solicit . . .

Then there are family members that I very much want to be prepared and they will get some evangelizing (only 40 years in it though ;) ). I've no problem shrugging off others however that don't want to be disturbed by this topic, or how they are slow killing themselves with any number of bad choices. Folks ultimately have to save themselves.

[HCM]

I do agree that people need to have that initial spark of interest, otherwise you're wasting your time.

As a third generation civil servant, from a family full of military/cops/Firefighters/nurses it's second nature to me, whether it be nature, nurture, or both.

When I do get questions from people looking to buy a gun, or more commonly here in Texas people who have a gun but want to get a CHL and/ or some actual training, I normally point them to the ballistic radio podcasts of SouthNarc and William April' interviews on MUC, avoidance, and criminal mindset. It helps dispel the myth of the "ballistic lucky rabbits foot"and if they're still interested after that, then we can talk. I figure even if they never wind up picking up a gun etc awareness, avoidance, and MUC are still useful.

[GJM]

Last point, before heading off to Ellijay.

Why the focus on "the men." I know a number of families, where it is the female that has that spark, and the male is indifferent. You know, that mama grizzly thing. While ideally mom and dad would get with the plan, I would take just a mom any day, especially since they are often with the family members that need protecting most.

[Nephrology]

What is it with the gun community, especially those <5 years in to the "defensive" side of it, and the need to evangelize their opinions to everyone else? It's worse than the goddamn Moonies.

Somewhere there is a post on a local adult football league forum in the "general discussion" section titled "why does my psycho cousin think everyone is out to get him?" Which goes on to detail the graphic news articles about violent crime that said militia-type cousin continuously sends to the author and other family members, despite repeated requests to stop.

It's not your job to "fix" people. In fact, it's not "fixing" at all. At best it's some insecure need to bring other people over to your way of thinking in order to validate your opinions and actions, many of which are probably nowhere near as logical as you'd like to think they are. Do your thing, let them do theirs. Chances are you'll both live a long and happy life, him with his Costco membership and you with your CWP. The less you beat these people over the head with your opinions and simply enjoy one another's company when you see each other, the greater the chance for said happiness.

I agree 100%. It's also worth mentioning that, as much as we gun people ignore it, violence is a thoroughly toxic and corrosive influence on the human psyche. PTSD is a real thing. People who are exposed to violence - and especially people who live lives of violence - are usually not changed for the better. I carry a pistol and am willing to use it in self defense, but only because I have been, in some sense, traumatized by some of the things I have experienced in my life. I would undoubtedly be much happier - and certainly would sleep more than my usual 5-6 hours a night - if my life had simply gone in a different direction a long time ago. Put simply, violence is something that should be avoided if at all possible.

I think it's totally unsurprising that these people reacted aversely to a news story about 2 innocent people being kidnapped and murdered. Statistically the odds of that happening to them (or to anyone they know) are very, very low. We don't live in the Ukraine or Caracas or Helmand. Violence is, for the vast majority of Americans, not the currency of daily life. This is a luxury we enjoy as Americans and one should enjoy. It should never be forgotten that we as gun people are a minority and shouldn't expect others to immediately understand our perspective on the world. It is also not a perspective we should let dominate our every thought and action. It's okay to go out and not carry sometimes.... odds are pretty damn good you'll get home in one piece.

[JHC]

Last point, before heading off to Ellijay.

Why the focus on "the men." I know a number of families, where it is the female that has that spark, and the male is indifferent. You know, that mama grizzly thing. While ideally mom and dad would get with the plan, I would take just a mom any day, especially since they are often with the family members that need protecting most.

Absolutely. I have a co-worker who is the momma grizzly in her family. Helped her buy and get set up with a 4" Model 10 a few years ago and she is the fam's security plan. Gets the call when there's a snake found etc.

[SamAdams]

@GJM - its interesting that you bring up terminology, particularly the word 'warrior'.
Back in the 1980s when Japan was kicking butt economically, there was a heightened interest in their history & culture. All sorts of books, articles, movies etc were out there that featured seemingly everything from 'Warrior Execs' to 'Samurai Moms'. It went a bit overboard.

I was in the military, but have been out for years. I don't get a paycheck for taking on people physically. In the context we are talking about here, IMO the elements include situational awareness & thinking tactically and strategically ( Examples: "If this happened now in this particular setting, how would I respond ?" and " In general, how would I respond to an active shooting in a public space ? How could this impact me & my family physically, emotionally, financially, etc ?) There's also elements of acting decisively and with full commitment, of taking the fight to them rather than just semi-passively reacting to their initiatives.
'Warrior' is just a word - a short hand for wrapping many concepts - but people can have all sorts of emotional reactions to it. That includes me. Actually, I don't recall using the term in this sense at any time except in this thread. Hmmmmm

And just to give a little more background on the initial post, over 10 years I think I have probably not passed on more than three articles detailing violent crimes. The other couple of articles were of the type "Old Lady Scares Off Home Invaders with Her Shotgun". Bombarding people with gory stories isnt my style or very productive. People have made very good points regarding this on the thread.

[Shumba]

I had the opprutonity to go to quite a few speeches from people like Col Grossman
The Corps made great strides on the warrior mindset under General Chuck Krulak and it continues today with General Dunford.
Army General McMaster's works are on the current USMC leadership reading list.

[HCountyGuy]

I agree 100%. It's also worth mentioning that, as much as we gun people ignore it, violence is a thoroughly toxic and corrosive influence on the human psyche. PTSD is a real thing. People who are exposed to violence - and especially people who live lives of violence - are usually not changed for the better. I carry a pistol and am willing to use it in self defense, but only because I have been, in some sense, traumatized by some of the things I have experienced in my life. I would undoubtedly be much happier - and certainly would sleep more than my usual 5-6 hours a night - if my life had simply gone in a different direction a long time ago. Put simply, violence is something that should be avoided if at all possible.

I think it's totally unsurprising that these people reacted aversely to a news story about 2 innocent people being kidnapped and murdered. Statistically the odds of that happening to them (or to anyone they know) are very, very low. We don't live in the Ukraine or Caracas or Helmand. Violence is, for the vast majority of Americans, not the currency of daily life. This is a luxury we enjoy as Americans and one should enjoy. It should never be forgotten that we as gun people are a minority and shouldn't expect others to immediately understand our perspective on the world. It is also not a perspective we should let dominate our every thought and action. It's okay to go out and not carry sometimes.... odds are pretty damn good you'll get home in one piece.

I honestly feel like I just read some anti-gunner propaganda. Your line of reasoning is the exact same they use to question why we need guns in the first place.

Most of us who carry fully acknowledge the fact it is unlikely we will ever come in to a situation requiring us to defend ourselves in any manner. But is there such harm coming from the acknowledgement of the fact such evil exists, and taking measures to prepare?
Though our response to incoming violence is a retaliation of violence, you make it seem as though (or I interpret it as) our preparation is going to result in us becoming unstable perpetrators of violence ourselves.

Yes, we could leave our carry piece at the house periodically, and some of us do and never come to harm. Should we also leave our homes unlocked or drive without seatbelts on? It's unlikely our homes will be broken in to or that we'll be in an auto accident.

Slippery slope right there sir.

[GardoneVT]

I honestly feel like I just read some anti-gunner propaganda. Your line of reasoning is the exact same they use to question why we need guns in the first place.

Most of us who carry fully acknowledge the fact it is unlikely we will ever come in to a situation requiring us to defend ourselves in any manner. But is there such harm coming from the acknowledgement of the fact such evil exists, and taking measures to prepare?

As far as society is concerned, yes.Part of the reason -despite the signifigant drawbacks- im interested in a LE career is because I look at my generation, and what I see frightens me.

My generation is what happens when society pretends on an institutional level that evil doesnt exist. Im reminded of something Col. Jeff Cooper said during an interview in the 70's. The reporter asked him ,pejoratively, if violence only begat more violence.Cooper's answer?

"I would hope so!"

The meaning of that phrase is lost on my generation. Which is a problem, because evil people still exist and will continue to exist no matter what illusions society decides to believe in. Anton Chirgurh may be a fictional character, but people like that really do walk among us. Society says Chirgurh can be tamed with wise talk,an intervention counselor, and a well timed 911 call at the worst. A few of us know better, and that puts us off the social mainstream of "courageous restraint".

[SamAdams]

I don't want to take the thread too far off course, but just want to make a couple of points. IMO this is at the level of overall, strategic thinking required for a pro-active mindset. - - There is a difference between 'violence' and 'force'. 'Violence' is the initiation of physical power to coerce, compel, or restrain. Violence is coercive action which violates anothers natural rights. 'Force' is in harmony with Natural Law because it does not violate another's rights. One always has the right to use the force necessary to defend themselves from violence. No one has the right to commit violence against another person, even if some have called that action 'legal'. (Example - The Gestapo rounded up various groups in Germany and sent them to concentration camps under various Nazi 'laws'.)

While the odds of one particular person being a victim of violence is small, the odds are high that someone in a community will be so victimized. In communities with more concealed carry holders, there is less such violent crime. The sum is greater than the parts.

[JHC]

violence is a thoroughly toxic and corrosive influence on the human psyche. .

No big deal, not that it matters but this cannot be universally stated as a fact. Too many variables. It's more of a quasi-theological position. One has to have a certain belief about what the human psyche is supposed to be to like, in order to categorically dislike the influence violence has on it.

[breakingtime91]

As far as society is concerned, yes.Part of the reason -despite the signifigant drawbacks- im interested in a LE career is because I look at my generation, and what I see frightens me.

My generation is what happens when society pretends on an institutional level that evil doesnt exist. Im reminded of something Col. Jeff Cooper said during an interview in the 70's. The reporter asked him ,pejoratively, if violence only begat more violence.Cooper's answer?

"I would hope so!"

The meaning of that phrase is lost on my generation. Which is a problem, because evil people still exist and will continue to exist no matter what illusions society decides to believe in. Anton Chirgurh may be a fictional character, but people like that really do walk among us. Society says Chirgurh can be tamed with wise talk,an intervention counselor, and a well timed 911 call at the worst. A few of us know better, and that puts us off the social mainstream of "courageous restraint".

Who is your generation?

[GardoneVT]

Who is your generation?

Im 28.Hopefully that answers the inquiry.