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cclaxton
04-16-2015, 07:36 PM
I have been searching out the ideal semi-auto BUG gun for IDPA. Here is my list. Figured it would make a good poll as well. Remember, I am not asking what is the best BUG gun, but what is best for IDPA, so I assume maximum barrel length and heaviest weight are advantages. I decided to exclude any guns under 3.0" barrel length and any guns that weigh less than 13oz.

Requirements:
<=3.6" barrel
<= 29 ounces with empty mag
8.2.6.6.1 Handguns permitted for use in BUG-S must:
8.2.6.6.1.1 Be semi-automatic.
8.2.6.6.1.2 Be single action, double action, double action only, or striker fired.
8.2.6.6.1.3 Use .380 ACP or larger cartridges.
8.2.6.6.1.4 Barrel length of 3.60” (91.4 mm) or less.
8.2.6.6.1.5 The unloaded firearm with the heaviest magazine must weigh 29.00 oz. (822.1 grams) or less.
8.2.6.6.1.6 The firearm with the largest magazine inserted must fit in the IDPA gun test box measuring 7 ¼” x 5 ½” x 1 ⅜” (184.2 mm x 139.7 mm x 34.9 mm.)
8.2.6.6.1.7 Magazine length (tubes plus base pad) that extend no more than 1.0” (25.4 mm) beyond the bottom of the grip.
8.2.6.6.2 Start Condition:
8.2.6.6.2.1 Single action only firearms will start cocked and locked. (hammer cocked, safety engaged).
8.2.6.6.2.2 Selective DA/SA firearms will start cocked and locked or decocked at the shooter’s discretion.
8.2.6.6.2.3 When decocking is desired, firearms with a decocking lever or button will be decocked using the lever or button.
- 41 -
8.2.6.6.2.4 When decocking is desired, if the hammer must be lowered by pulling the trigger and manually lowering the hammer, the hammer will be lowered to the lowest position possible.
8.2.6.6.2.5 In BUG semi-auto the shooter will start with one round in the chamber and 5 rounds in the magazine, and 6 rounds in each additional magazine. Therefore I excluded any guns less than 3" barrel and less than 15oz.
8.2.6.6.3 Semi-Automatic Modifications:
Semi-automatic BUG must comply with all Enhanced Service Pistol (ESP) features and modifications, and equipment restrictions.

These are the guns on based on my research:
380ACP
Walther PK380, DA/SA, 3.6", 19.5oz.
Sig P250 380ACP, 3.6", DAO, 19.4oz
Sig P232, 3.6", DAO, 23.6oz.
Hi-Point 380ACP, 3.5", DAO, 29oz.
Cobra Freedom FS380, 3.5", 24oz. DAO
Bersa Thunder 380, 3.5", 20oz, DA/SA
Walther PPK/S, 380, 3.3", 24oz, DA/SA
Bersa 380CC, 3.3", 16.4oz, DA/SA
Glock 42, 3.26", 13.8oz

9mm
S&W M&P Shield, 3.1", 19oz. DAO
Kahr CW9, 3.6", 16oz, DAO
HK USP 9C, 3.6", 26oz, DA/SA, DAO
Sig P250SC9B, 3.6", 25oz, DAO
Sig 320SC-9, 3.6", 25oz, DAO
Springfield XDS, 3.3", 23oz. Striker, DAO
Springfield EMP, 3.0", 27oz, SAO
Kimber CDP II Ultra, 3.0", 25oz, SAO
Kahr K9, 3.47", 25oz, DAO
Beretta Nano, 3", 19.5oz, DAO
STI Lawman, 3.24", 25oz, SAO
CZ 2075 RAMI, 3.0", 25oz, DA/SA
Glock 26, 3.42", 23.5oz, DAO

Doesn't meet requirements:
EAA Witness Pavona, 380ACP, 30oz, too heavy.
Beretta PICO, 380, 2.7", 11.5oz
S&W Bodyguard, 2.75", 12oz.,
Ruger LCP, 2.7", 9.4oz
Colt Mustang 380, 12.5oz
Kimber Micro Carry, 13.5oz
North American Arms Guardian 380, 2.49" 18.8oz
Sig P290RS, 2.9", 16.4oz
Beretta Cheetah 84FS, 3.8" barrel
Sig P250, 3.9" barrel
Sig P239, 29.5oz
Sig P238HD, 2.7", 20oz, SAO

OneBravo
04-16-2015, 09:02 PM
There will likely be more Glock 26s and S&W Shields in BUG than any others, but the STI Lawman will be the gun to beat. I've got a Kimber Ultra that would be a great BUG if it were in 9mm. I'll just use a Glock 26. I carry a 27, so it just seems right.
OB

cclaxton
04-16-2015, 09:23 PM
I forgot to include the Dan Wesson ECO. I think I see one vote for that.
Cody

cmoore
04-16-2015, 10:37 PM
The power factor floor for BUG division is 95. In a .380 pistol, it's going to take a relatively hot load to make this power factor. I suspect only very few factory FMJ ammo brands will get there. Not likely an issue for club matches though. It will be interesting to see what guns dominate the BUG national match given the new rules. Glock 26s and small 1911s in 9mm are my bet.

cclaxton
04-16-2015, 11:28 PM
There is quite a bit of controversy about the 95PF number. I suspect this will change so that factory ammo will be allowed. It's also possible to download 9mm if you could get the gun to cycle. A friend of mine thinks the Khar's would cycle with a lower load. Good grip will be required.
Cody

olstyn
04-17-2015, 05:21 AM
The Walther P99c and PPS would both fit in the box.

P99c: 3.5", ~20 ounces, DA/SA
PPS: 3.3", ~20 ounces, Striker-fired DAO

gravitysuksv15
04-17-2015, 07:53 AM
So what about the M&P 9 Compact

3.5 barrel
21.7 oz

Was it an oversight or is there a reason the M&P was omitted?

My buddy is the guy who shot the BUG category at NRA IDPA classifier this week, and we have been taking about this topic all week. I am very interested in keeping up with this thread.

I will be bringing my Beretta Nano out with me to the next IDPA event, not looking forward to that short sight radius.

cclaxton
04-17-2015, 08:36 AM
Any guns that would fit into the BUG category based on the requirements I listed and didn't make it on the list is an oversight.
However, any guns with barrels under 3.0" I consider "mouse guns" and not a serious IDPA sport gun for BUG.
I have asked the Admin's to add them to the poll. I don't know if they will be able to.
Thanks for bringing it up.
Cody

olstyn
04-17-2015, 08:43 AM
Oh, also, on the subject of Walthers, the PK380 in your list actually has a 3.66" barrel. Would the extra 0.06" disqualify it?

MGW
04-17-2015, 08:49 AM
I'm new to IDPA so take this for what it is. I would think that a Glock 26 would be difficult to beat from a pure game perspective. I shot my first classifier last month and decided to use my Gen 4 26. I ended up shooting a 140. I was pretty happy with that time. I had 5 indoor and 1 outdoor match under my belt and it was the first time to shoot the 26 for time.

As a side note another guy in my group shot an XDs. He shoots all the time, lots of three gun and IDPA, and struggled with the XDS a little bit. Biggest issue was mag changes. In a match it would be a nonissue though.

For me the 26 is just a lot easier to shoot fast than a Shield. It really shows up on shots with tighter windows. I had planned on shooting my first full match with it tomorrow, not a BUG match, but looks like it'll be rained out.

I think a small 1911 style pistol might work okay.

eyemahm
04-17-2015, 09:01 AM
I shoot an hk p2000sk, which is basically the hk g26. It's fairly good up to 10 yards but one certainly has to work harder to run it than a larger gun. Will have to look into the USPc.. I didn't realize that met the requirements and I suspect would be significantly easier to shoot, both in terms of ergos and sight radius than the g26 size guns.

cclaxton
04-17-2015, 09:05 AM
Oh, also, on the subject of Walthers, the PK380 in your list actually has a 3.66" barrel. Would the extra 0.06" disqualify it?
You are right, and yes, it would disqualify the PK380. I must have pulled it from here: http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_55/products_id/57835/Walther+380+ACP+3.6%22+Barrel+Black+Finish+8+%2B+1 +Capacity
It's so hard to get these details right when resellers don't list them correctly.
Thanks for the correction
Cody

rwa
04-17-2015, 10:08 AM
I have shot a G26 in a regular IDPA match and I did OK. The only BUG on the lost that I currntly own is a S&W Shield in 9mm so that's what I would run. A buddy of mine has a 3.4 inch STI in .38 Super and it is super accurate with a killer trigger. That would be my choice if I owned the darn thing.

olstyn
04-17-2015, 10:20 AM
You are right, and yes, it would disqualify the PK380. I must have pulled it from here: http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_55/products_id/57835/Walther+380+ACP+3.6%22+Barrel+Black+Finish+8+%2B+1 +Capacity
It's so hard to get these details right when resellers don't list them correctly.
Thanks for the correction
Cody

Glad to help. With that particular gun's reputation for quality and reliability, I somewhat doubt anyone would have it at the top of their list anyway, but at least it'll prevent people who already own them from showing up at a match and being told that they can't compete with them.

davsco
04-17-2015, 01:35 PM
i recently got both a Lawman 3.0 and Glock 26. No surprise, but ergos & trigger on the Lawman/1911 are WAY better than the Glock (even with the pinkie extension which is mandatory for me). Still, again no surprise, the Glock has been 100% and the Lawman is still needing some breaking in as it and the mags are tight. Glock also has a little higher mag capacity (not relevant for IDPA BUG but for real life). When the STI is 100%, that will be my first choice between the two.

JodyH
04-17-2015, 01:52 PM
Will have to look into the USPc.. I didn't realize that met the requirements
I'm guessing its inclusion on this list is an error since it's the same size as a Glock 19.

cclaxton
04-17-2015, 02:02 PM
I'm guessing its inclusion on this list is an error since it's the same size as a Glock 19.
http://hk-usa.com/hk-models/usp-compact/
It fits the box. 7 ¼” x 5 ½” x 1 ⅜” unless you are gonna quibble about .05". I am willing to bet it fits.
However, the weight is unclear. The HK website shows it as 27oz without mag and 1.6lbs with empty mag (25.6oz). I sent an email off to HK asking for clarification, but no answer back.

If someone owns one and can measure weight with empty mag and width, that would be appreciated.
The barrel makes it.

Also, the Glock is longer at 7.34" and the barrel is 4".

Cody

Clusterfrack
04-17-2015, 03:11 PM
HK USP/c .40:

Weight: 28.6 oz. with empty mag.

Width: 1.320" including safety/decock lever

So, it looks like it barely squeaks by as an IDPA BUG gun.

cclaxton
04-17-2015, 03:36 PM
HK USP/c .40:

Weight: 28.6 oz. with empty mag.

Width: 1.320" including safety/decock lever

So, it looks like it barely squeaks by as an IDPA BUG gun.
THANKS!!!
Not sure anybody will be shooting BUG in 40cal, unless they seriously download the charge. I assume the 9mm is the same?
Cody

cclaxton
04-17-2015, 03:38 PM
The Admins will be making the following changes to the Poll:
REMOVE
Walther PK380 (Barrel Exceeds length)
(We are leaving the HK USP9C in for now)

ADD
Dan Wesson ECO, 9mm, 3.5", 25oz, SAO
Walther P99C, 9mm, 3.5", 21oz, DA Striker
Walther PPS, 9mm, 3.2", 21oz, DA Striker
S&W M&P Compact, 3.5", DAO, 21.7oz., DAO
HK P2000K, 9mm 3.26", 24oz, LEM, DA/SA

Let's not ask the Admins for more changes tomorrow. If you have any others we should change, please send now.
Cody

GJM
04-17-2015, 07:02 PM
THANKS!!!
Not sure anybody will be shooting BUG in 40cal, unless they seriously download the charge. I assume the 9mm is the same?
Cody

USP C 9 and 40 are similar size, but the USP C 45 is bigger. I have a USP C 40 with an extra .357 Sig barrel, light LEM, and HD sights. Great gun, but not my first choice for gun games. Triggers have shorter reset than the P2000 and P30.

Nephrology
04-18-2015, 07:54 PM
USP C 9 and 40 are similar size, but the USP C 45 is bigger. I have a USP C 40 with an extra .357 Sig barrel, light LEM, and HD sights. Great gun, but not my first choice for gun games. Triggers have shorter reset than the P2000 and P30.

If the USPc really is legit for IDPA BUG, it will become the gun of choice for this division no doubt. It's going to be far easier to shoot quickly than a Glock 19 or even the M&P9c, as it is basically just about as big as the box will allow (just like the G34 is the gun of choice for ESP/SSP).

Edwin
04-19-2015, 01:24 AM
I measured my FM Detective (http://www.gunblast.com/RKCampbell_HighPower.htm) today using our club's IDPA box and it's bug legal so I'll be using that.

TGS
04-19-2015, 10:37 AM
I think this is all very bizarre. I don't understand the logic that goes into these gun games. A BUG division is created so that people can get some time in on their BUGs.....but no one will actually shoot what, in real life, qualifies as a BUG because they'll be shooting their bigger carry gun as the division allows it (USPc, G26, M&P Compact, ect).

Why not rename it the carry gun division, and actually make the BUG division a place where people will shoot actual BUGs?

olstyn
04-19-2015, 11:12 AM
Why not rename it the carry gun division, and actually make the BUG division a place where people will shoot actual BUGs?

I agree that the name doesn't seem to match the rules very well. The 30 oz weight thing seems especially silly to me, given that a G17, inarguably a full size gun, weighs in at ~25 oz. Of course, in any game, you can expect people to find the position of maximum advantage and use it in order to win, because it's a game.

ADulay
04-19-2015, 04:23 PM
If the USPc really is legit for IDPA BUG, it will become the gun of choice for this division no doubt. It's going to be far easier to shoot quickly than a Glock 19 or even the M&P9c, as it is basically just about as big as the box will allow (just like the G34 is the gun of choice for ESP/SSP).

I think you may have meant the Glock 26 for BUG division as the Glock 19 is too large. The G19 is legal for the new CCP division, as well as SSP and ESP.

AD (now that I think about it, the G26 is also good for CCP, SSP and ESP)

Nephrology
04-19-2015, 10:47 PM
I think you may have meant the Glock 26 for BUG division as the Glock 19 is too large. The G19 is legal for the new CCP division, as well as SSP and ESP.

AD (now that I think about it, the G26 is also good for CCP, SSP and ESP)

Yes, meant the G26. Thanks for catching my mistake.


I think this is all very bizarre. I don't understand the logic that goes into these gun games. A BUG division is created so that people can get some time in on their BUGs.....but no one will actually shoot what, in real life, qualifies as a BUG because they'll be shooting their bigger carry gun as the division allows it (USPc, G26, M&P Compact, ect).

Why not rename it the carry gun division, and actually make the BUG division a place where people will shoot actual BUGs?

Wasn't ALL of IDPA supposed to be the carry gun division? :P

cclaxton
04-20-2015, 06:17 AM
No matter where you draw the line on the size/weight of a BUG gun, there will be at least ten prevailing opinions on why it should be lower or higher or the same. The Glock 26, being one of the most popular BUG guns, is 3.42" barrel and about 25oz. That is not far from the 3.6" and 29oz limit set by IDPA. Imagine the controversy if IDPA had chosen 3.0" and 23oz as the limit...people would have cried about it excluding the Glock 26.

If IDPA had set it for 3.5" and 22oz, cries of trying to protect S&W over Glock would have been heard. If it had been set at 3.1" and 16oz, cries that it excluded the SPringfield XDS would have been heard, etc., etc.

The definition of a BUG gun has changed over time as the technology has improved, and that is a challenge. Also, who is carrying the BUG seems to make a big difference. My own experience with LE guys who shoot IDPA is they like larger, heavier BUG guns, and CCW guys tend towards the mouse guns like the Sig P238 or LCP or Bodyguard. Get two of your buddies and ask about BUG gun recommendations and you will get four opinions.

By setting the bar low it enables people to compete in their BUG gun of choice. If I could have set it, I would have set the limit at 3.1" barrel and 20oz (Sorry G26 guys), mainly because people tend towards lighter weight guns. But that is just one man's opinion...
Cody

Nephrology
04-20-2015, 06:43 AM
No matter where you draw the line on the size/weight of a BUG gun, there will be at least ten prevailing opinions on why it should be lower or higher or the same. The Glock 26, being one of the most popular BUG guns, is 3.42" barrel and about 25oz. That is not far from the 3.6" and 29oz limit set by IDPA. Imagine the controversy if IDPA had chosen 3.0" and 23oz as the limit...people would have cried about it excluding the Glock 26.

If IDPA had set it for 3.5" and 22oz, cries of trying to protect S&W over Glock would have been heard. If it had been set at 3.1" and 16oz, cries that it excluded the SPringfield XDS would have been heard, etc., etc.

The definition of a BUG gun has changed over time as the technology has improved, and that is a challenge. Also, who is carrying the BUG seems to make a big difference. My own experience with LE guys who shoot IDPA is they like larger, heavier BUG guns, and CCW guys tend towards the mouse guns like the Sig P238 or LCP or Bodyguard. Get two of your buddies and ask about BUG gun recommendations and you will get four opinions.

By setting the bar low it enables people to compete in their BUG gun of choice. If I could have set it, I would have set the limit at 3.1" barrel and 20oz (Sorry G26 guys), mainly because people tend towards lighter weight guns. But that is just one man's opinion...
Cody

It should be air weight J frames only, minimum power factor 165 or higher :P

cclaxton
04-20-2015, 06:45 AM
It should be air weight J frames only, minimum power factor 165 or higher [emoji14]
My hand hurts just reading thst.
Cody

LostDuke
04-20-2015, 10:10 AM
I shot matches including the first BUG Nationals with a PPS and found it absolutely adequate, but if this becomes something of a regular kind of thing for me I'd strongly consider a P99c or a G26 for gaming purposes. My PPS is my warmer months CCW so I felt good about shootin it at a big match but I didn't have anything else on the table to choose from.

cclaxton
04-21-2015, 08:26 AM
I stopped by Sharpshooters last night to try out a few of these guns. My personal thoughts:
Glock 26 Gen4, better than Gen3, but trigger is still too heavy for my taste. Might be improved with a new disconnector. Grip is too short for me.
S&W Shield, I like the grip better, and the trigger better, but still heavy for my taste and the reset is too much for me.
XDS, like the grip, like the trigger better than S&W or Glock. But trigger still too heavy for my taste.
Walther CCP (not on the list...darn..another one I missed), I like this grip the best, I like the button mag release, I like the trigger break, but the pull and reset are really long.

When I have time I will continue to look are more on this list.
I own a Bersa Thunder CC, and I really like the trigger on this gun. I like the grip, but it needs to be thicker for my hands...maybe new grips. This gun is not going to be a good gun for IDPA BUG since it is not built to last thousands of rounds.

I own the Kimber CDP Ultra II and I love the trigger and grip. I don't shoot that well with it.
I own the CZ RAMI in Alloy and I love the trigger and grip, and I shoot well with it.

Cody

JV_
04-21-2015, 09:25 AM
Glock 26 Gen4, better than Gen3, but trigger is still too heavy for my taste. Might be improved with a new disconnector.connector, not disconnector.



S&W Shield, I like the grip better, and the trigger better, but still heavy for my taste and the reset is too much for me. The reset is too forceful?

freeidaho
04-21-2015, 09:45 PM
No matter where you draw the line on the size/weight of a BUG gun, there will be at least ten prevailing opinions on why it should be lower or higher or the same. The Glock 26, being one of the most popular BUG guns, is 3.42" barrel and about 25oz. That is not far from the 3.6" and 29oz limit set by IDPA. Imagine the controversy if IDPA had chosen 3.0" and 23oz as the limit...people would have cried about it excluding the Glock 26.

If IDPA had set it for 3.5" and 22oz, cries of trying to protect S&W over Glock would have been heard. If it had been set at 3.1" and 16oz, cries that it excluded the SPringfield XDS would have been heard, etc., etc.

The definition of a BUG gun has changed over time as the technology has improved, and that is a challenge. Also, who is carrying the BUG seems to make a big difference. My own experience with LE guys who shoot IDPA is they like larger, heavier BUG guns, and CCW guys tend towards the mouse guns like the Sig P238 or LCP or Bodyguard. Get two of your buddies and ask about BUG gun recommendations and you will get four opinions.

By setting the bar low it enables people to compete in their BUG gun of choice. If I could have set it, I would have set the limit at 3.1" barrel and 20oz (Sorry G26 guys), mainly because people tend towards lighter weight guns. But that is just one man's opinion...
Cody

Bravo ! ! !

armed
10-09-2015, 05:15 AM
Hi... new to the forum and a little late for this thread. Having said that, I am keen to undestand if anyone knows the reason why IDPA felt the need to drop the max barrel lenght on BUG to 3.6"?
Not living in America, access to firearms where i live is heavily regulated. Many people have what i consider perfectly acceptable BUG guns that they had been using like the CZ83 or Beretta 84 which now are not compliant due to 0.2" barrel difference.
This is what hey could get (myself included, a beretta 84), had been using but now no more.
Unfortunately, can't just go out and get a replacement - no 2nd amendment where we are.
Any idea why the need to change?
tx

MGW
10-09-2015, 12:32 PM
My guess is to make room for CCP.

YVK
10-09-2015, 07:08 PM
That is not far from the 3.6" and 29oz limit set by IDPA.

These numbers always remind me that only 0.06 inch of barrel length formally disqualifies an official sidearm of one of the largest LE agencies from IDPA BUG division.

armed
10-10-2015, 03:58 PM
I guess you have a point. By dropping barrel length requirements for BUG to 3.6 inches, it created more room for CCP. Still a pity thought that perfectly usable firearms are now not legal for BUG.
Hopefully someone from IDPA HQ reads this and takes pity on us and will reconsider .... we live in hope
tx

Pistol Pete 10
10-18-2015, 08:02 PM
Last Bug match I used a 2-1/2" model 19.

Jubal
01-23-2016, 02:51 PM
1998 Sig P239 9 MM with 8 round magazine weighs 783 grams or 28 ounces and should be BUG legal.
6.6" L, 5.1" H, 1.2" W, 3.6" barrel

Glenn E. Meyer
03-11-2016, 12:57 PM
Saw on a TV show report of the SW Bug match, a guy using a 686. With no offense, a short barrel L frame is really not in the spirit of the match, even if it fits in a box.

Edwin
03-11-2016, 01:15 PM
Saw on a TV show report of the SW Bug match, a guy using a 686. With no offense, a short barrel L frame is really not in the spirit of the match, even if it fits in a box.

Miculek has been using that same gun for the entire time BUG nationals has existed.

Glenn E. Meyer
03-11-2016, 01:50 PM
That has been commented on as also not in the spirit. It's simple - just say revolvers are J frames, LCRs or equivalent Charter Arms. There aren't that many snubbies out there to confused the issue.

I'm even a touch leery of the G26s and equivalents as BUGs. Yep, I know a lot of real world people carry them as LEOs or military. Guess, I'm cranky on this.

Edwin
03-11-2016, 04:12 PM
Which J frame on the market is a 6 shot? They effectively killed it when Bug-R rules were changed last year. There's no incentive.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Glenn E. Meyer
03-11-2016, 05:47 PM
The rare 32's from SW like the 432 or 632s are six shot as are the 327 LCR. Is a 32 acceptable? That's a more realistic choice than a 686 in your front pocket. The older Colts would work. But my point is that a 686 is just gaming it.

Edwin
03-11-2016, 08:47 PM
Well no shit, it's a game.

Also, .38 special is the bare minimum so no, .327 wouldn't work.

Glenn E. Meyer
03-12-2016, 12:41 PM
Of course it is a game! That's why we play. But to go along with a real bug concept, it should be NAA Minis, 32 ACPs and 32 revolver rounds and 380s. How many folks here put a 686 in their front pocket? That should replace the box. Get a pair of Jeans and can you wear them with the gun!

I'm repeating myself - if you want to play BUG, sorry Miculek and others, trying to win with a 686 - feh!

Edwin
03-12-2016, 04:44 PM
Coming soon to an IDPA match near you. PCC BUG division.

http://forums.androidcentral.com/attachments/lg-g3/131409d1407595712t-lg-g3-too-big-my-pocket-jnco_jeans.jpg

olstyn
03-12-2016, 05:22 PM
Coming soon to an IDPA match near you. PCC BUG division.

Haha, seems legit. Of course, in order to qualify, you'll be required to "sag" your pants like that. :)

Glenn E. Meyer
03-12-2016, 08:27 PM
That is how senior jeans are worn, I'm afraid. I need suspenders to keep up the gear for a match. I read an article about how to defend yourself on an airplane using your 'tactical' belt skills. The author left out if your pants on the ground are a handicap.

aboveandbeyond
03-15-2016, 11:40 AM
Just a quick question regarding BUG. Since ESP rules tie with BUG, would I be able to use a Apex Trigger (https://store.apextactical.com/WebDirect/Products/Details/192125) and still be legal?

IDPA rules confuses me...

cclaxton
03-15-2016, 05:04 PM
Just a quick question regarding BUG. Since ESP rules tie with BUG, would I be able to use a Apex Trigger (https://store.apextactical.com/WebDirect/Products/Details/192125) and still be legal?

IDPA rules confuses me...
Yes, ESP rules are the most liberal. The exclusions do apply...read carefully.
Cody

DAB
04-07-2016, 04:15 PM
Beretta Px4 compact with stealth levers. meets all the rules, fits in the box.

DAL357
06-04-2016, 07:59 AM
From what I've seen, read, and heard, a LOT of people carry, or at least claim to carry, J-frame-ish guns in a back-up role, so why the change to six rounds? Do we now need a BUG revolver category with a max. of five rounds?

Glenn E. Meyer
06-04-2016, 02:26 PM
Well, I carry a BUG revolver with six - a SW 432 with 6 HR mags and there is an LCR in 327 out there. Saw it once at the gun show.

What bugs me is seeing the SW BUG match on the tube and some dude saying how he cut down a Model 66 to make the size rules. Feh. I rarely use my G26 as a BUG. It's not really in the spirit of a pocket gun. Although it did come in useful when my rock solid G19 had a seizure at Given's and I had to pull the 26 but the run still sucked.

zeroflux
06-10-2016, 07:46 AM
I've been shooting BUG with my Springfield XD Mod2 9mm which I don't see listed in your poll.

cclaxton
06-10-2016, 08:47 AM
I've been shooting BUG with my Springfield XD Mod2 9mm which I don't see listed in your poll.
This is a pretty old poll. I wish I had the ability to add poll options. I would also add Ruger's to it.
Cody

Randy Harris
06-10-2016, 09:30 AM
I carry a G17 or G34 in every day life, shoot a G34 in SSP and ESP, shoot a G19 in CCP and so a G26 is the obvious choice for me. I scored Master with the G26 the 1st time I shot the classifier for BUG and I largely contribute that to it simply being a shorter version of the other guns I already shoot. Same gun just a little shorter front to back and top to bottom. Probably also helps that I carried a G27 as a primary carry gun during the late 90s and early 00s before I switched to full size all the time.

DAL357
06-13-2016, 01:24 PM
What bugs me is seeing the SW BUG match on the tube and some dude saying how he cut down a Model 66 to make the size rules.

Now THAT'S the definition of a gamer. WTH was IDPA thinking? This just means all those five-shot snubbies will be shot even less now than usual, which is not a good thing. Or am I reading this whole thing wrong?

DAL357
06-13-2016, 01:26 PM
Double post.

Glenn E. Meyer
06-14-2016, 12:24 PM
I think the big names wanted to game to win and IDPA went along.

Jim Watson
06-15-2016, 10:00 AM
Got a BUG shoot coming up at the July (mostly) police not-quite-IDPA league match.
I am torn between a real BUG - Colt Gov't .380 or a short service pistol, SA UC.
Both operate like my regular belt carry Commander and competition 1911 types.

As to the gamers and rule revisions, my little Gov't 380 was hot stuff under the old definition and I had just put a fibre optic front and a 1911 rear on so I could better see what I was shooting at. Then they rewrote the definition and it is now both less competitive and of no collector value.

Luke
06-15-2016, 03:31 PM
Are they rounding numbers? P2000 barrel is 3.66, would that work?

cclaxton
06-16-2016, 02:22 PM
Are they rounding numbers? P2000 barrel is 3.66, would that work?
Simple Math: 3.66-3.6=.06 over the barrel limit.

PNWTO
06-16-2016, 02:36 PM
Simple Math: 3.66-3.6=.06 over the barrel limit.

I've seen the P2000 in BUG before.

I feel like 9 times out of 10 that will pass muster. Unless it is a high profile event or someone really wants to bitch.

LSW
10-07-2016, 05:33 AM
Sorry to necro post, but I just wanted to confirm, shooting a .40 cal pistol with a 9mm conversion barrel would be legal for BUG division (same as ESP) right? Thinking of trying my hand at BUG with the M&P 40 converted to 9.

tedbeau
12-01-2016, 07:30 AM
I had to vote other because you neglected to list the glock 27. That's my CCP and Bug gun. 40 caliber the best of both worlds, almost as big as a 45 and almost as fast as a 9mm as much energy downrange as a 9mm and more penetration and a hole almost as big as 45.

Glenn E. Meyer
12-01-2016, 11:18 AM
Disagree on that having had a 26 and 27. The 27 wasn't as comfortable to shoot, has lesser number of rounds and as we discuss all the time, the differences between modern 9s and 40s and 45s are not that important.

cclaxton
04-09-2017, 10:11 AM
Due to the new IDPA rules for BUG Guns, it is time to deprecate this thread.
I will work on a new one with BUG and CCP Guns.
Cody