New Federal Cartridge shotgun loads for LE

[DocGKR]

Given Brenneke USA's recent QC issues and the unfortunate unavailability of true Rotweil Brennke loads in the U.S. currently, we have been looking for alternative slug loads that are capable of adequate penetration after first defeating intermediate barriers. We shot the new Federal (PB127 DPRS) Truball Deep Penetrator 1 oz slug load @ 1350 fps (http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/slug.aspx?id=902). It penetrated 24" of gel after first defeating an automobile windshield, with no deviation from trajectory and outstanding weight retention. The Federal Truball Deep Penetrator works as a potential Brenneke replacement. As a bonus, it is very accurate out to at least 100 yards.

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Based on IWBA data, Don Hacklander from San Diego Police Supply and I have been discussing the potential of a properly designed #1 buckshot LE load for many years--with Don's help and the efforts of some folks at ATK, this has now finally been brought to fruition!

We shot the new Federal #1 buckshot, 15 pellet, 1100 fps "Flight Control" load (LE132-1B) yesterday out of a generic 18" 870P, including patterning from 5-35 yards, as well as a bare gel shot at 7 yards. In bare gel, all 15 of the 30 caliber plated pellets penetrated in the 14-18 inch range.

This new Federal LE132-1B #1 buckshot load offers IDEAL terminal performance for LE and self-defense use and is the best option for those who need to use shot shells for such purposes.

Below are a couple photos of patterning shots at 7 and 25 yards:

http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=7627&filename=Fed%201%20buck%207%20yds.jpghttp://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=7628&filename=Fed%201%20buck%2025yds.jpg

[ToddG]

Doc -- Any evaluation of the #1 properly running semiautos?

[DocGKR]

Nope, just 870's issued around here.

[ToddG]

Considering an 870 is the only shotgun I own at the moment, I suppose that's all I really need to worry about anyway. I'll have to reach out and get some of this stuff. Heretic that I am, I'm still a big believer in the shotgun as King of Home Defense.

[DocGKR]

This new #1 buckshot load is the KING of self-defense shot loads, so that will be a match made in heaven.

[ToddG]

Thanks for the info, Doc!

[Paul Gomez]

It's been a long time coming. Can't wait to get my hands on some.

[Kyle Reese]

I need to get some of this ammo. Thanks for the heads up.

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk

[wicked_police]

I'll have to look and see if I can find some of it up here too....

[Slavex]

if you can score me a few boxes let me know what it's worth dude.

[Jay Cunningham]

Heretic that I am, I'm still a big believer in the shotgun as King of Home Defense.

Evil, Pure and Simple, from the 8th Dimension! Get 'em!

[GJM]

Given Brenneke USA's recent QC issues and the unfortunate unavailability of true Rotweil Brennke loads in the U.S. currently, we have been looking for alternative slug loads that are capable of adequate penetration after first defeating intermediate barriers. We shot the new Federal (PB127 DPRS) Truball Deep Penetrator 1 oz slug load @ 1350 fps (http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/slug.aspx?id=902). It penetrated 24" of gel after first defeating an automobile windshield, with no deviation from trajectory and outstanding weight retention. The Federal Truball Deep Penetrator works as a potential Brenneke replacement. As a bonus, it is very accurate out to at least 100 yards.

Doc, can you elaborate on the Brenneke issues. I carry a short 870 almost daily in Alaska, and have been using the Brenneke Classic Magnum 2.75 inch loads. I have a large stock of them purchased from five or more years ago, and continue to buy them. I detect no difference in accuracy and function between the slugs from the old supply and new slugs.

I just grabbed a box from my newly purchased batch, "Classic Magnum. 1 1/8 ounce, 2 3/4 inch, and while the box is marked Brenneke USA, the slugs are labeled as made in Germany.

[DocGKR]

Rotweil Brenneke produced superb consistent ammo made and loaded in Germany using quality components. Brenneke USA purchases the German made projectiles and then finds a low bidder to load them--perhaps in Serbia, Russia, or who knows where, using components of suspect origin. As a result, QC and consistency has been less than ideal. Your loads are probably fine.

[orionz06]

The #1 load is essentially the same as the 00 out right now, right?

[DocGKR]

The new #1 load (LE132-1B) uses the same design features (solid brass head, shot spread reducing wad, copper-plated shot, reduced recoil) as the current Flight Control Tactical Buckshot, but using fifteen 30 caliber pellets, instead of the eight or nine 32 caliber pellets in the current 00 loads (LE133-00 and LE132-00).

[orionz06]

Excellent. The 00 was very impressive to see out of an off the shelf 870 express when compared to guns that had all kinds of port work and other things done.

[DocGKR]

We did some additional testing with the new Federal LE132-1B #1 buckshot load. The load chronographed with a MV of 1095 fps from an 18" 870.

Through an automobile windshield at 3 meters, 2 badly deformed pellets were noted at 5", 3 pellets were at 8-9", while the remaining 10 pellets were found at 12.5-15"--not bad for buckshot load. Keep in mind that slugs are the preferred option when engaging threats inside vehicles.

In bare gel when shot from 3 meters, we again saw penetration of all the pellets from 14-18", as noted in the photo below:

http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=7653&filename=Fed%20#1%20buckshot%20BG.jpg

[nbourbaki]

Evil, Pure and Simple, from the 8th Dimension! Get 'em!

As soon as anyone has any stock

[DocGKR]

San Diego Police Equipment Co. Inc. now has the production Federal #1 buckshot Flight Control load (LE132-1B) in stock for LE agency customers ONLY in CA, OR, WA, AZ, NV: 800-367-8989.

[Sparks2112]

We are working on getting this. I'll post as soon as it becomes available to us.

[Sparks2112]

I'd check our webpage in the next couple of days...

[LtDave]

Patterned the new Federal #1 load today out of a cylinder bore 870 and a Vang Comp'd 870. Long story short, they were outstanding. We were shooting at Caldwell 9" x 12" silhouette targets. At 10 yards all pellets were in the 10 ring. At 15 yards, patterns were fist sized, at 20 yds you could cover all with your hand. At 25 yds all inside the 9 ring, and all were still inside the 8 ring at 30 yards. Tried some Winchester and Remington #1 loads at 20 yds and could barely keep half on the target with the cylinder bore gun. The Vang did a little better, but nowhere close to the Federal load. Got them at ammoman.com.

[jmjames]

Patterned the new Federal #1 load today out of a cylinder bore 870 and a Vang Comp'd 870. Long story short, they were outstanding. We were shooting at Caldwell 9" x 12" silhouette targets. At 10 yards all pellets were in the 10 ring. At 15 yards, patterns were fist sized, at 20 yds you could cover all with your hand. At 25 yds all inside the 9 ring, and all were still inside the 8 ring at 30 yards. Tried some Winchester and Remington #1 loads at 20 yds and could barely keep half on the target with the cylinder bore gun. The Vang did a little better, but nowhere close to the Federal load. Got them at ammoman.com.

Sounds good!

Ammoman just ran out in the last day or two, I have been keeping my eye on their very limited supply, hoping it would hold out 'till payday. :)

J.Ja

[Tigerbait]

So do you recommend staying away from buying Brenneke slugs and going with the Federal for defense purposes?

[jmjames]

So do you recommend staying away from buying Brenneke slugs and going with the Federal for defense purposes?

The recommendation, as I understood it, was to go with the Federal slugs, but for defense purposes, the Federal LE buckshot (#1, if you can find it) is the better choice.

I wish I had gotten that case of #1 when it was available, I haven't seen it since then. I just got a case of the #00, and I have a bunch of the slugs on hand, waiting for me to give 'em a run.

J.Ja

[Tigerbait]

Yea I understood that for most defense purposes the buckshot is better. I just wasn't sure if we should stay away from buying new Brenneke slugs altogether and go with Federal. It sounds like that's the case though. Thanks for the reply.

[Chuck Haggard]

The problem is with the state of QC for the Brenneke slugs. They have outsourced who loads their slugs and sometimes the quality is very good. Previously Brenneke was the only real game in town for a non-expanding/fragmenting, high penetration slug, with the new Federal high penetration version of the Truball slug that is no longer the case.

[MechEng]

Cabela's apparently has them in stock.
http://www.cabelas.com/shotgun-ammunition-federal-truball-8482-rifled-slugs.shtml

[joshs]

Cabela's apparently has them in stock.
http://www.cabelas.com/shotgun-ammunition-federal-truball-8482-rifled-slugs.shtml

Those look like standard TRUBALL slugs, not the deep penetrator version. There is a deep penetrator TRUBALL in the vital-shok line as well as the Federal Premium Law Enforcement loading. Both boxes are clearly marked "DEEP PENETRATOR." If the box isn't marked, I would assume it is the standard TRUBALL slug which has pretty lousy penetration.

[SeriousStudent]

I do not live far from Cabela's. I could wander over and check, if you wish.

[jmjames]

Those look like standard TRUBALL slugs, not the deep penetrator version. There is a deep penetrator TRUBALL in the vital-shok line as well as the Federal Premium Law Enforcement loading. Both boxes are clearly marked "DEEP PENETRATOR." If the box isn't marked, I would assume it is the standard TRUBALL slug which has pretty lousy penetration.

I am fairly certain that I've seen the "deep penetrator" version offered at Cabela's or similar hunting/sporting goods place.

I'm curious if the Vital Shok version of Truball is the same at the LE version.

J.Ja

[digiadaamore]

Does anyone know where you could find you LE132-1b right about now? im not having much luck

[EPF]

For what its worth Ammunition to Go has the LEB127DPRS slugs




http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/25rds-12-gauge-federal-le-2-34-truball-deep-penetrator-1oz-rifled-slug/cName/12-gauge-slug

[jmjames]

Does anyone know where you could find you LE132-1b right about now? im not having much luck

The last time I saw them was when ammoman had them about a year ago. I was about to buy a case and then they were gone, and I've never seen them since. I look around for them about once a week. A few months ago, right before the ammo situation went bad, I got a case of the 132-00, glad I did when I did. I got tired of waiting for the 132-1B, and I wasn't a big fan of the #1 that I could find locally (Super X 3" Magnum... too much recoil).

J.Ja

[digiadaamore]

I feared as much, i just ordered some TAP 00 buck, hopefully im not giving up much. I think its a pretty damn good load, especially with whats available right now

[Dave J]

I feared as much, i just ordered some TAP 00 buck, hopefully im not giving up much. I think its a pretty damn good load, especially with whats available right now

In my guns, TAP about doubled the pattern size compared to the Federal FliteControl buck. Hopefully your guns will like it a little better.

[TGS]

In my guns, TAP about doubled the pattern size compared to the Federal FliteControl buck. Hopefully your guns will like it a little better.

I think that's true of any load that doesn't have a Flite Control wad....hence why this load is so highly regarded. It's not that the TAP sucks.....just that compared to Flight Control, everything else sucks.

[Dave J]

I think that's true of any load that doesn't have a Flite Control wad....hence why this load is so highly regarded. It's not that the TAP sucks.....just that compared to Flight Control, everything else sucks.

That pretty much sums it up, IMHO.

[DocGKR]

Over a decade ago, Chris Billings of Choke™ invented both a shot spread reducing and a shot spread eliminating wad design; both Federal and Hornady licensed the non-bonded Choke shot spread reducing design (ie. Flight Control and TAP).

[digiadaamore]

Over a decade ago, Chris Billings of Choke™ invented both a shot spread reducing and a shot spread eliminating wad design; both Federal and Hornady licensed the non-bonded Choke shot spread reducing design (ie. Flight Control and TAP).

That being the case why does the federal seem to always produce tighter patterns?

[DocGKR]

There is more to it than just the wad--shot hardness, plating, buffering, and propellant to name just a few...

[Captain]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but just wanted to to keep all the info on this together...

Is there any appreciable difference in the Federal LE loading on the DP slugs vs the commercial loadings? I know the LE loadings use a blue shell vs the commercial's maroon. The blue would be nice to be able to quick tell the difference between loadings (since the FC buck uses the same maroon shell), but I don't see it available anywhere and just wanted to make sure the slugs were effectively the same before I ordered some.