Mag flipping

[HopetonBrown]

I shoot at a club with some guys who flip the mag out of their gun after they press the mag release. I say that it's slowing down their reload, but they disagree and say their reload times are just fine. Okay, but some newer guys to the club are now emulating this mag flip because it's what the guys who've been there longer are doing. Any ideas how I can stem the mag flip tide?

[JV_]

Break out the timer?

[HopetonBrown]

Well yeah, I try to use the timer as much as possible, but they also powerstroke the slide because "battlefield pickup" and "gross motor skilks", so half second off their 3 second reload will probably not be convincing enough.

[JV_]

Let them go about their merry way. The mag flip is the least of their issues.

[Kyle Reese]

Well yeah, I try to use the timer as much as possible, but they also powerstroke the slide because "battlefield pickup" and "gross motor skilks", so half second off their 3 second reload will probably not be convincing enough.

I'd like to point out that working the trigger is just as fine a motor skill as dropping the slide via slide stop.

Concur with JV- just smile, nod and just tune 'em out.

[ReverendMeat]

Wait.. Is "power stroking" the slide a bad idea all of a sudden? That's how I've always done it, unless I'm shooting a FAST or something.

[Surf]

Ask them how them how many battles they have been in or plan on being in where there are multiple types of pistols lying all over the place? If they are in battle and need to pick something up, hopefully there are rifles caliber weapons available. Also ask them if they are able to push the magazine release button why can't they hit a slide stop? They are both about the same size after all and take relatively the same level of manipulation with the thumb to get them to work.

As has been mentioned, the least of their worries is probably "flipping mags".


Wait.. Is "power stroking" the slide a bad idea all of a sudden? That's how I've always done it, unless I'm shooting a FAST or something.Why do you shoot the FAST differently? Is your consistency different in getting the slide back in battery? There might be reasons for using an overhand or slingshot technique on the slide but "battlefield pick-up" and "gross motor skills" are both reasons cited by those who probably have a lot of room for skill development.

[ReverendMeat]

Ask them how them how many battles they have been in or plan on being in where there are multiple types of pistols lying all over the place? If they are in battle and need to pick something up, hopefully there are rifles caliber weapons available. Also ask them if they are able to push the magazine release button why can't they hit a slide stop? They are both about the same size after all and take relatively the same level of manipulation with the thumb to get them to work.

As has been mentioned, the least of their worries is probably "flipping mags".

Why do you shoot the FAST differently? Is your consistency different in getting the slide back in battery? There might be reasons for using an overhand or slingshot technique on the slide but "battlefield pick-up" and "gross motor skills" are both reasons cited by those who probably have a lot of room for skill development.

I shoot a FAST differently because I'm going for speed and using the slide stop helps a little. (Last one I did though, I had a failure to lock back and had to rack it. That cost me some time, but would've been less noticeable if I'd been consistently "power stroking.") But even though using the slide stop will give me slightly better time doing a drill, I still can't think of a good reason not to "power stroke" instead when I'm doing anything else.

[Surf]

I shoot a FAST differently because I'm going for speed and using the slide stop helps a little. (Last one I did though, I had a failure to lock back and had to rack it. That cost me some time, but would've been less noticeable if I'd been consistently "power stroking.") But even though using the slide stop will give me slightly better time doing a drill, I still can't think of a good reason not to "power stroke" instead when I'm doing anything else.I am not quite tracking this one. Not sure how running a slide consistently would have made you more able to notice a failure of the slide to lock to the rear? Do you mean that you counted rounds, dropped a mag, inserted a new one and went to thumb the slide stop and the slide was already forward, then had to rack in a round? If that is the case and this is not a knock on you, but that is more related to a training problem and not a fault of the technique itself.

[ReverendMeat]

That's more or less what happened, yes. I relayed my little FAST drill anecdote because I thought it was somewhat interesting, though it wasn't pertinent to my question and I should've omitted it.

I never said that there is a fault in the technique (using the slide stop), but I'm still wondering if there's any reason why I shouldn't "power stroke" instead, which was my original question.

[HopetonBrown]

That's more or less what happened, yes. I relayed my little FAST drill anecdote because I thought it was somewhat interesting, though it wasn't pertinent to my question and I should've omitted it.

I'm still wondering if there's any reason why I shouldn't "power stroke" instead, which was my original question.

I watched the guy that came in 1st in CDP in my last local IDPA match "powerstroke" the slide and miss.

Last weekend I watched 3 out of 5 "powerstrokers" do the same thing. When they come up and over the gun to pull the slide back, but are in such a hurry they don't get a firm grasp and have to do it again.

Mike Pannone was not a fan of this technique, as I was using it circa January 2014 in his class, and he told me so. He said you come too far off your master firing grip, and it's slower than using the slide stop/release. Pat McNamera on M4Carbine.net said he's seen 2 people shoot themselves in the hand doing the "powerstroke".

[Lomshek]

I'm still wondering if there's any reason why I shouldn't "power stroke" instead

Because it's slower and at least as likely to induce a malfunction as flubbing the slide release.

As far as mag flipping I guess if one wants to be dynamic one must do it. Personally I just figured out a method of dropping mags cleanly that leaves the gun oriented so it's ready to accept the new mag.

[Peally]

I've twisted the gun early enough to prevent gravity from helping the mag fall out, wasting time. If people want to look like twits throwing mags all over more power to them though.

Best counter would be out-shooting the boobs using better methods :D

[Chuck Haggard]

I'll have to think again about the slide release vs running the slide school of thought, Mike and Pat are some really serious dudes, and I tend to listen to guys like that and take what they say seriously. However, comma,..........

One reason why I have always taught running the slide on the reload, especially with Glocks, is that most most of the shooters I have worked with it's been faster. I've seen guy after guy stabbing at that little bitty Glock slide release and miss, sometimes multiple times, then they have to stare at the gun in order to find it. Add the extended release and they either hit it early and the gun locks open with ammo on board, or they pin it and it doesn't lock the slide on empty.

I have also noted that people trained in "Tap-Roll/Rack-Bang (or Assess, Whatever...) and in running the side appear to be much faster at clearing malfs than guys that don't. I am talking grunts level stuff here, not 12th degree black belt gun ninjas (although I have seen a few of those do a poor job of clearing malfs as well...) .

My theory is that when the weak hand palm seats the mag, be that magazine a reload or the "Tap" part of TRB, and this is then immediately followed by running the slide, and this action is what you do to handle both situations, then moderately trained people are going to have less Hick's Law shit to deal with under stress.

I also note, and I am still into trying to find numbers on this, my impression that one is about as likely to have to deal with a malf as they are to have to reload a semi-auto pistol. Lots of people work the shit out of getting their reloads down to Fast!!!!!!!!!!, but rarely work malfunction drills. This is where I have seen the wheels fall off for a number of guys in matches, even at the Master and GM level.

(Side note, I once won a local USPSA match with a S&W 5906 run from my duty gear, and while I did some good shooting I'm in no way Leatham or Miculek, I even beat the GM running the full C-More dotted triple port comp .38Super Major race gun, because I was the only dude in the match that didn't have a malf that day, there was much wailing, gnashing of teeth and rending of garments afterwards while I giggled...)

[TGS]

Slingshotting is my default reload technique outside of HKs and Berettas. Maybe if I worked with SIGs regularly I would use their slide release, but pretty much everything else....especially Glocks as Chuck mentioned...I find extremely hard to use the slide lock as opposed to sling shotting.

[Chuck Haggard]

BTW, the only way that mag flipping makes sense is with an AR doing a "look at the ejection port and see what's up with the gun" type reload/stoppage clearance TTP that Costa and Hailey famously taught in those MagPul videos. The flip is then a by-product of the gun being turned into position to take the reload, not something you actually do, if that makes sense.

[LSP972]

Sigs were the first pistols (as opposed to revolvers) I learned to "run" seriously; prior to that, it was playing around with 1911s. We taught the overhand grasp- which is what I suspect you guys are referring to with this "power stroke" business- exclusively, because most times one ended up hitting the decock lever, due to the slide lock lever's rearward placement, when trying to thumb down the slide lock lever. When I started shooting Glocks seriously some years later, I continued the overhand grasp technique to get the slide forward.

But when I began shooting an HK USP Compact .45, its huge slide lock lever was a natural for hitting with the left thumb while re-establishing my grip after a reload/malf clearance. And I have stayed with that. In the past couple of years, I have been bouncing back and forth between HK and Glock (not the smartest thing to do, but I've never claimed to be too smart), and I haven't had any issues with missing the lever, inadvertent slide lock-opens, etc., on either brand. Granted, all of my Glocks have the OEM "extended" lever, such as it is.

FWIW, I smile when I see Beretta fanbois dismiss the "put the safety on accidentally while racking the slide" syndrome. Seen it plenty of times, and ditto on 59-series S&Ws.

Anyway, there are plusses and minuses for both methods... just like everything else. But for me (and I a lot of other folks I know), using the slide lock lever is considerably faster.

.

[Surf]

There are valid reasons for running a slide and teaching it that way and I still do it with guys who consistently wear gloves as an example. Another example would be if the pistol's slide stop is not conducive to that function, or if the shooter cannot reach the stop consistently. With a Glock as an example I do have a bit of a hard time with a stock slide stop and if I am wearing Gloves it gets more problematic. I do however run a Vickers slide stop in my Glocks as my preference. When I was running a P226 full time with gloves I would cut off the trigger finger and thumbs of the gloves.

Another thing I experienced last year, where we transitioned 2200 officers to the Gen4 G17 is that the agency ordered the pistols with extended slide stops. Standard stops were options for those who fouled the extended stop. The prior pistol was a 5906 and the default method to return the slide into battery was a slingshot (pinching the slide with thumb and index finger) to lessen the chance of fouling the decocker/safety. Malfunctions handled the same. With the Glock we started seeing guys attempting to run the slide in the same manner. In particular the malfunctions had some horrible results where right handers would use this pinch slingshot and go ejection port up. Some would not get a good grip on the slide, or some with lesser strength might short stroke the pistol and with about a 10% rate in class we would see the bad round not clear the weapon and create more of an issue. Sometimes flipping around 180* and the casing end of the round would jam into the chamber backwards.

So we had to deal with teaching an overhand method with ejection port down for right handers and we also allowed Officers to utilize the slide stop as a release if they chose that method. For those who opted to run the slide stop, maybe for the first time ever, we did note that in 2 days of training it became ingrained to at least conscious competence in pretty much everyone who adopted it and many got it into the subconscious or unconscious competence in that 2 day time frame.

I know that malfunctions might be rare, more so perhaps then reloading in a critical incident, however certain units with time and resources should train malfunctions to a high degree. I know however this may not be the case as an example with LE or military as a whole across the board, but if the unit has the capability to train more techniques or topics, they will have more tools to utilize and negating Hicks issues and turning options into advantages. But again this is not the norm across the board and I fully understand that.

I do agree that it may take more to think about and we do instill the fact that if you don't train (any topic) but specifically the slide stop method, it won't happen consistently, but from my experience with a cross section of average LEO's it can be done with great success. I will note that those who have ingrained another method to a high degree of proficiency (unconscious competence) those types are the ones who are tougher to get transitioned to any new technique. The bottom line is the more time and resources, plus shooter ability, allows for more options. I do agree that if time and resources are limited, keeping things simple with commonality is often the best option and I do stick with that in early phases of training others. How far I progress them depends on time, resources and proficiency.

[TAZ]

Ok. I'm officially lost. What in the hell is mag flipping with a handgun. I can sort of see it on an AR during a malf clearance as described above. Look into ejection port to see what heck is up and as a BYPRODUCT you then rotate the gun to get it ready to accept a new mag. I'm having a hard time envisioning how to flip a mag out of a handgun without a lot of unnecessary movement. Unless Im shooting all gangster I need to rotate gun 90 CCW then back 180 CW to generate any serious rotational speed. Maybe all my torn muscles have limited my range of motion, but from a regular grip I can't generate enough rotational speed to make a difference unless I rotate CCW to flip the mag out then rotate the gun back 180 to expose the mag well for the next mag. What a bunch of wasted movement.

[Mr_White]

What a bunch of wasted movement.

This is pretty much it. That's what it amounts to and that's why it doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Peally]

But it's soooo coooooool

[Mr_White]

But it's soooo coooooool

That's true, I forgot that part.

[Wondering Beard]

I first saw the "mag flipping" back in the mid 90s in an intro to IPSC class (long before the Magpul stuff).

The way it was explained to me was: as you press the mag release button you rapidly rotate the hand as if going to turn it "palm up" so that the magwell is oriented towards your weak side and effectively ready to receive the new full mag from your support side hand. That movement would create centrifugal (or was it centripetal, I don't remember) force that would energetically eject the spent magazine.

It worked well for the instructor but for me it actually stopped the mag from ejecting freely not matter how hard I practiced and I just stopped using the technique (gravity is your friend and extra movement often is not). I remember seeing quite a few shooters trying this out and just shaking their guns to get the mags out. I imagine it looked really cool to them when it worked but more often than not I thought they had just figured out how to use their guns as maracas.

[HCountyGuy]

Here's mag flipping, and these guys are local to me.


http://youtu.be/09rcmWYHmoE

[ST911]

I'm not sure which is the bigger head-scratcher to watch... shooters doing the mag flip, or those assisting/pulling the mag out of the well and propelling it up range. Whatever the latter is called.

[psalms144.1]

Here's mag flipping, and these guys are local to me.So, wait, I've been doing it wrong all this time? I thought when I saw the slide locked to the rear I was supposed to start the reload process. Apparently, I'm supposed to add the step of tipping the muzzle skyward so I can see if the pistol is empty first. This is a EUREKA moment. All these years, it felt like I needed to add a step to my reload to slow it down some...

I won't even try to start mag flipping, my luck I'd sprain a wrist, or put my eye out somehow.

Of course, if I reloaded with my arms at full extension in a hard lockout, that would probably be less of a danger. Looks like I have some work to do!

[Kyle Reese]

Here's mag flipping, and these guys are local to me.


http://youtu.be/09rcmWYHmoE

He's also running his mags backwards in the pouch.

[LSP972]

What great tips, eh?

Gots to remember to pre-load my thumb…

.

[Peally]

So, wait, I've been doing it wrong all this time? I thought when I saw the slide locked to the rear I was supposed to start the reload process. Apparently, I'm supposed to add the step of tipping the muzzle skyward so I can see if the pistol is empty first. This is a EUREKA moment. All these years, it felt like I needed to add a step to my reload to slow it down some...

I won't even try to start mag flipping, my luck I'd sprain a wrist, or put my eye out somehow.

Of course, if I reloaded with my arms at full extension in a hard lockout, that would probably be less of a danger. Looks like I have some work to do!



I laughed watching that doofus do his reload. It's so obvious! I need to check to make SURE the gun is empty when it becomes lighter and the slide locks back and indicates it's obviously empty! Of course!

For ever normal person out there there's 5 twats like this guy making YouTube videos...

[Lomshek]

He's also running his mags backwards in the pouch.

Now see you're just outing yourself as not a serious defensive handgunner. You must be a gamer to run your mags bullet forward! ;)

[SLG]

So that's what So Tactical looks like. Good to know.

[Chuck Haggard]

One of the worst instructional videos I have seen. Figures he was wearing a Serpa

[ReverendMeat]

Ok. I'm officially lost.

I suppose it can be useful in a gun where magazines don't drop free. I have three where the "technique" can be beneficial (two pistols and one AR), it's either that or stripping them out with my support hand. Stripping them is a bit slower but more reliable. Beyond that it's people who watched some Magpul Dynamics stuff on Youtube but didn't pay any attention to context.

[LSP972]

One of the worst instructional videos I have seen. Figures he was wearing a Serpa

And shooting a Serbo-croat Special.

.

[Chuck Haggard]

And shooting a Serbo-croat Special.

.

Full derp combo, it's like a requirement or something

[LSP972]

Yeah, but he was clean-shaven.

So he scores zero on the wanna-be hit parade.

.

[Chuck Haggard]

Yeah, but he was clean-shaven.

So he scores zero on the wanna-be hit parade.

.

Watch their other videos, holy cow...........

[LOKNLOD]

You can't make a silk (man-)purse out of a SOWW's gear.

[BaiHu]

Watch their other videos, holy cow...........
Wow! All I have to say is "hooter shooters" and "virtual traning". Yes, I spelled it correctly. They aren't good on editing, filtering or checking with professionals apparently.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Do you have to shave your arms to do this reload? I think mine are too hairy and the wind resistance would slow me down.

[Kyle Reese]

Do you have to shave your arms to do this reload? I think mine are too hairy and the wind resistance would slow me down.

If you do it'll easily shave off a half second on your reload.

[Nephrology]

Ok. I'm officially lost. What in the hell is mag flipping with a handgun. I can sort of see it on an AR during a malf clearance as described above. Look into ejection port to see what heck is up and as a BYPRODUCT you then rotate the gun to get it ready to accept a new mag. I'm having a hard time envisioning how to flip a mag out of a handgun without a lot of unnecessary movement. Unless Im shooting all gangster I need to rotate gun 90 CCW then back 180 CW to generate any serious rotational speed. Maybe all my torn muscles have limited my range of motion, but from a regular grip I can't generate enough rotational speed to make a difference unless I rotate CCW to flip the mag out then rotate the gun back 180 to expose the mag well for the next mag. What a bunch of wasted movement.

I flip my pistol when I reload from slide lock because empty Glock mags (even newer ones) sometimes don't eject very positively or quickly. flipping my wrist ~60 degrees after I depress the mag release flicks them out of the magwell very quickly, and by the time I flip the magwell back I usually have a new mag in position. with partially loaded magazines there is no issue.

[BaiHu]

I flip my pistol when I reload from slide lock because empty Glock mags (even newer ones) sometimes don't eject very positively or quickly. flipping my wrist ~60 degrees after I depress the mag release flicks them out of the magwell very quickly, and by the time I flip the magwell back I usually have a new mag in position. with partially loaded magazines there is no issue.
Not a Glock guy, but I thought I read somewhere that applying armor all helped ease empty Glock mags. Any veracity to this?

[Nephrology]

Not a Glock guy, but I thought I read somewhere that applying armor all helped ease empty Glock mags. Any veracity to this?

I've never heard of that before.

[HopetonBrown]

Well Armor All should make them slicker. But if your Glock mags aren't dropping free there's probably something wrong with your gun or mags.

One thing I found myself doing was not making sure the mag well was oriented vertically when pressing the mag release; I was already pointing it toward my mag pouch so the mags weren't dropping as quickly.

[ST911]

If your mags aren't dropping free, look for both subtle and obvious burrs on the mag catch (insides), full length and four sides of the mag well, mag body, and mag body notch. This usually fixes it. Also check your mag catch spring to make sure it hasn't worn (raaaaaare) or bent (user) affecting travel of the release.

No armor all.

[Hambo]

What great tips, eh?

Gots to remember to pre-load my thumb…

.


You should always have your thumbs pre-loaded. Every real operator knows it takes too long to load them in the asymmetric kill chain.

[LSP972]

You should always have your thumbs pre-loaded. Every real operator knows it takes too long to load them in the asymmetric kill chain.

Of course; how silly of me.

Thanks for the head-slap.

.

[Failure2Stop]

Way back in the day I took an early AFHF class.
Due to some gun factors and some training factors, I was unconsciously habitually swinging the gun to get the magazine to reliably drop free.
Todd quietly counseled me on the line, "Dude, cut that shit out."

Once I noticed that I was doing it, I worked to eliminate the unnecessary motion, ensuring that the magazine release was fully depressed before turning the gun to accept the new mag.
Didn't happen immediately, but once I got rid of a bad habit, my reloads shaved time. Especially noticeable when shooting one-handed. Doing the mag flippity-floop just before holstering for the reload makes the point painfully clear.

I am now in possession of a G41 that likes to hang onto magazines.
Corrective action: identify friction points and remove them with fine sand-paper and a razor.

[BaiHu]

*SNIP*
I am now in possession of a G41 that likes to hang onto magazines.
Corrective action: identify friction points and remove them with fine sand-paper and a razor.

For the record, is the armor all thing a myth, useless or just a bad idea for plastic mags? If it's bad, can someone explain why?

Just curious.

[Chuck Haggard]

It does work if you have older mags that are scuffed up, never noticed that it hurt anything, but you only want your mags so slick, because you have to hang onto them in order to get the gun reloaded

[psalms144.1]

For the record, is the armor all thing a myth, useless or just a bad idea for plastic mags? If it's bad, can someone explain why?

Just curious.Don't know for sure, BUT, Armor All tends to attract things like dust (ever seen how "gewey" a nicely armor-alled dash gets if it sits for a couple of days?). I'd think that armor-alling your magazines, then dumping them on the typical range dirt/ground would result in some nasty, gritty magazines that would be EVEN LESS likely to drop free. But, I might be completely off base. I usually am.

[Peally]

Then again you might be right. Sounds like spraying something in silicone oil, sure it's slick as hell but the second dust touches it it's down for the count until scrubbed.

If I had mag drop issues oiling the mags would be a very last resort. Assuming a normal functioning brand/model something isn't right.

[Keydet08]

I am now in possession of a G41 that likes to hang onto magazines.
Corrective action: identify friction points and remove them with fine sand-paper and a razor.

I had exactly the same issues

[Surf]

Mag flipping with a pistol always brings the vision of the Center Axis Relock reload.

[miller_man]

Ok, I have to admit I have been flipping my gun to the right quickly while my support hand goes to get the reload.

I've seen a few folks do it, and after being in the middle of a reload - more times than I'd like, I;ve brought the new mag up to see the old mag still there. I added this movement and have enjoyed an empty magwell for my reload ever since.

I'll check my guns/mags for friction points.

So, when this has happened, it's probably been me tilting the gun for the new mag too soon?
I would bet this has been the case.

Time to re-learn in dry practice I guess. I have been struggling with getting sub 2 sec reloads, I didn't think there was that much wasted time flipping the mags out but practice and the timer will tell I guess.

[Failure2Stop]

Re: Armor All
I tried the Armor All trick, and found that while it would get the mag out of the gun pretty well, it would also make my hands slippery, to the point of detriment with the reload.
Didn't have issues with dust/dirt, but I applied it pretty thin.
I do not recommend.

[LSP972]

Mag flipping with a pistol always brings the vision of the Center Axis Relock reload.

No kidding. I had forgotten about that bonehead.

.

[Surf]

It came back to me when I saw a clip from the movie John Wick. He was in a sauna / bar / nightclub something or other and transitioned in and out of the CAR, he even got in the CAR mag flip reload. Hmm, John Wick mag-flip. Kinda catchy. :)

John Wick Mag Flip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnPagmeLm-g)

[BaiHu]

Wow! Now I'm not sure if I want to see that movie. Heard it was entertaining.

Another thing I hate about Hollywood is the obsessive need to rack the slide before someone shoots. You could watch Ninja stealth guy load up and chamber a round in one scene, but in the next scene, when he gets within shooting distance, he racks it one more time for a) movie drama and b) to give the quarry a chance to react.

[Kyle Reese]

Wow! Now I'm not sure if I want to see that movie. Heard it was entertaining.

Hated it.

[BaiHu]

Hated it.
Thanks for saving me some time.

[Kyle Reese]

I just thought that the plot was preposterous, and I just don't dig the Matrix-esque gun play. You might like it.

[BaiHu]

I just thought that the plot was preposterous, and I just don't dig the Matrix-esque gun play. You might like it.
Been there, done that and over it. The Matrix was fun when it came out and then they went the way of most franchises.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I liked Dean's reload of his 1911 when a full magazine of 45 ACP was not stopping a supernatural trying to recover the book of the dead. He was on his back and looked like he racked the slide with the site. Was fast and clean. Preferred for monster fighting. Current episode of Supernatural, BTW. Classic gun problem. Dean carries a 1911 and Sam carries a 9mm Beretta type.

Which best for monsters. I like that these guys shoot rather than just standing there when faced with monsters.

[LSP972]

Heard it was entertaining.

.

It was. When have you seen a movie that DIDN'T have at least a bit of gun-derp in it?

CAR shooting techniques aside (which worked here, thanks to good choreography), the wife and I enjoyed it.

Some AR cognescenti were pissing and moaning about the AR carbines used in the final scenes- something about this or that brand not being authentic- but I didn't notice anything amiss. So perhaps that makes me an AR non-cognescenti or something; poor me.

Whatever. Any action flick with lots of gunfighting where one of the antagonists runs out of burrets and has to start using pick-up shit, is good for me. The look on his face when he reaches for another magazine, and realizes there ain't no more, is perfect.

.

[Surf]

I am sure I will check out the movie. I don't mind the non-authenticity involving weapons and handling as long as I still find the movie entertaining. I will also note a couple of things, first the CAR has some valid stuff, nothing original to the CAR but fairly standard close in stuff that just happened to be "packaged" into a "system". Second and getting back on track to the topic, I do see some pretty high level guys use a slight flip. Heck I have used it on occasion for sticky mags in training, but the rotation is not inbound but a slight flick outbound. Todd Jarret does this a lot and I am not going to tell him he is wrong or slow.

[Failure2Stop]

Hated it.

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ls8orl3bqB1qznip5o1_400.jpg

[MVS]

I am not a fan, so of course I was thrilled when Mike Pannone made fun of it at his advanced handgun class I attended last fall. He may have made more of it than usual because Steve Fisher was hosting the class and he enjoyed busting his chops.

[Shawn Dodson]

The first time I saw this video it appeared to me the bad guy was a mag flipping practitioner and stress caused him to revert to the way he trained and he ejected the magazine after firing the first two shots - http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f4EPT-Kd_Eo

[Clobbersaurus]

You dudes are missing the point of the mag flip. I practice it every time I dry fire. Dry wall is taking a beating, but you can't put a price on quality training....;)


http://youtu.be/OEEEy1dMceI

[BaiHu]

You dudes are missing the point of the mag flip. I practice it every time I dry fire. Dry wall is taking a beating, but you can't put a price on quality training....;)


http://youtu.be/OEEEy1dMceI
Epic! I've neglected my Dynamic Pie Concepts studies. Thanks for sharing.

[Slavex]

while I don't do it as harsh as the above DPC video, I do flip the mags out. Twice I've run into a mag I've dropped straight down in front of me and bagged myself during a course of fire. That alone is reason enough for me. Get the friggin thing off to the side whenever possible. It also does help with the occasional sticky mag, which I've experienced with every semi I've owned except my Desert Eagle, those mags always drop free, but they also weigh a lot.
I don't honestly believe it costs me any time, 99% of the time of my reloads are during movement anyhow, although this can result in unintended consequences, like almost braining Marianna Tilley in Jamaica two weeks ago. Dropped the mag with the normal flip, ran into it with my right foot and punted it back towards the gallery, just barely missing Marianna. Got a good ribbing for doing, and then Eric did the same thing, so I didn't feel so bad.
I find the gun is still waiting for the mag to show up during my reloads, the flick is just a part of bringing the arm back as I index the elbow off my body.

[Failure2Stop]

while I don't do it as harsh as the above DPC video, I do flip the mags out. Twice I've run into a mag I've dropped straight down in front of me and bagged myself during a course of fire. That alone is reason enough for me. Get the friggin thing off to the side whenever possible. It also does help with the occasional sticky mag, which I've experienced with every semi I've owned except my Desert Eagle, those mags always drop free, but they also weigh a lot.
I don't honestly believe it costs me any time, 99% of the time of my reloads are during movement anyhow, although this can result in unintended consequences, like almost braining Marianna Tilley in Jamaica two weeks ago. Dropped the mag with the normal flip, ran into it with my right foot and punted it back towards the gallery, just barely missing Marianna. Got a good ribbing for doing, and then Eric did the same thing, so I didn't feel so bad.
I find the gun is still waiting for the mag to show up during my reloads, the flick is just a part of bringing the arm back as I index the elbow off my body.

I think that there is a difference between hitting the mag release and quickly turning the mag well into the support side for the reload, and in turning the gun first toward the outside and then slinging the magazine to the inside.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Here you go - the ultimate mag change flip - watch the fight clip:

http://www.blastr.com/2015-4-29/agents-shield-showrunners-talk-avengers-age-ultron-tie-and-cool-cameo

Note that with this Glock, you don't have to rack after a reload (at least I didn't see it - might be there) and it is a one shot stop gun. It also causes your enemy to miss all shots.

I don't think I can do that flip. Ha!

[Peally]

That video is making me bleed out the eyes :D

This is why I don't watch any TV anymore other than the oldies. Fricken' Hogan's Heroes is more grounded in reality than that.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I would like to clarify that I am not a fan or the show, nor do I watch it. I saw the link on another forum and posted it for our amusement. So I have better taste than that.

[Wondering Beard]

No one watches a show where superheroes exist and expects any degree of realism.

I watch it because Marvel comics were a big part of my growing up (back in the 70s) and I find it fun for what it is. If I wanted realistic fights the shows I'd watch would be ... hmm ... well you got me there. :)

[Bigguy]

No one watches a show where superheroes exist and expects any degree of realism.

I watch it because Marvel comics were a big part of my growing up (back in the 70s) and I find it fun for what it is. If I wanted realistic fights the shows I'd watch would be ... hmm ... well you got me there. :)

Since you were brave enough to admit watching, I guess I'll fess up too. I watch pretty much for the same reasons you mentioned. I don't expect much from this show, and that's usually what I get. I did enjoy seeing Patton Oswalt (Justified's Constable Bob) on the show. His character (characters?) was fun.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Well, for realism I preferred the new Godzilla where our hero was forced to draw his M9 on the gigantic MUTO monster. Luckily, Godzilla came by an breathed atomic fire down the Muto's head and then ripped it off. I think the Muto ate the soldiers firing M4s at it.

[Chuck Whitlock]

I would like to clarify that I am not a fan or the show, nor do I watch it. I saw the link on another forum and posted it for our amusement. So I have better taste than that.

Ya done went from preachin' to meddlin'! :cool:

I generally watch just because I like Colson's character and the correlation with the films.

[Wondering Beard]

I did enjoy seeing Patton Oswalt (Justified's Constable Bob) on the show. His character (characters?) was fun.

I haven't watched the last 4 or 5 episodes because I'm abroad but I have DVRed them, so no spoilers please :). Still, I agree with you, Patton Oswald has been fun to watch (on Justified too).

[Wondering Beard]

Well, for realism I preferred the new Godzilla where our hero was forced to draw his M9 on the gigantic MUTO monster. Luckily, Godzilla came by an breathed atomic fire down the Muto's head and then ripped it off. I think the Muto ate the soldiers firing M4s at it.

Well that I've got to see :cool: