The Desbiens Reverse Cant (RC) magazine pouch

[SouthNarc]

Every now and then you run across a piece of gear that really knocks your socks off. Something that's just perfect. That happens to me less and less these days.

So there I was a couple of weeks ago hanging around at one of Tom Givens' classes with my friend, peer, and sometimes unwitting therapist WT Aprill, when he let me try out the Desbiens Reverse Cant (RC) magazine pouch. After working with it for a few hours I knew I had to have a few.

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n616/SouthNarc/DesbiensRCmagpouch015.jpg

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n616/SouthNarc/DesbiensRCmagpouch016.jpg

Desbiens Gun Leather is s small company run by Rhome and Belen Desbiens who are SUPER nice folks with old world personable customer service. I called them up after working with William's pouch over the weekend and ordered one mag pouch each for a Glock, a 1911, and an M&P.

Here's their site.

www.desbiensgunleather.com

The RC mag pouch essentially positions a spare magazine at an extreme rearward angle and is designed to be worn just off centerline. This works well for positioning gear forward of the hip points to optimize access for confined spaces, entaglement, and economy of motion. Here it is working with a Garrity Invictus, and a Clinch Pick. Nothing get's in the way of anything else.

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n616/SouthNarc/DesbiensRCmagpouch019.jpg

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n616/SouthNarc/DesbiensRCmagpouch020.jpg

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n616/SouthNarc/DesbiensRCmagpouch001.jpg

[SouthNarc]

For reloading off your back such as fending with an open guard or reloading in the bucket seats of a small vehicle, I haven't seen anything that comes close to this product.

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n616/SouthNarc/DesbiensRCmagpouch004.jpg

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n616/SouthNarc/DesbiensRCmagpouch005.jpg

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n616/SouthNarc/DesbiensRCmagpouch006.jpg

[SouthNarc]

And from a regular standing untangled reload, this pouch is extremely fast. It's like a competition pouch optimized for concealed carry. Hand placement is perfect.

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n616/SouthNarc/DesbiensRCmagpouch008.jpg

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n616/SouthNarc/DesbiensRCmagpouch009.jpg

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n616/SouthNarc/DesbiensRCmagpouch010.jpg

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n616/SouthNarc/DesbiensRCmagpouch012.jpg


Guys this product is to mag pouches as the Clinch Pick is to ECQ. Overall it's an essential.

Go buy some!

[ToddG]

As I commented elsewhere, those pics and SN's recommendation were all I needed. Just ordered four of these. Can't wait to try them out!

[TCinVA]

Very interesting. I'll have to check that out.

[SmokeJumper]

I've had the opportunity to meet and talk with Rhome, super nice guy and he makes great carry gear and goes out of his way to accommodate his customers. SN- good pics and tutorial on the mag pouch.

[beltjones]

That is a great idea! At first I was shocked that someone had the idea to make a leather concealment holster similar to how Open and Limited shooters prefer to place their mags, and then I was shocked that it took so long for such an "obvious" idea to reach the market. I'll definitely be ordering one or two...

[Jackdog]

Sweet! S'narc just cost me more money.

[SLG]

South Narc,

Not to be too inquisitive, but how do you deal with having to undo your pants? My AIWB on the right side and the CP on the left make things difficult enough.

As an aside, Garrity made me a version of that mag pouch a year or so ago while we were still working on the Invictus. It is lower profile (takes up less belt space) and works well, but is not as severely canted, and is designed to go just behind the CP. I'll try and take some photos this week, but may have to wait till next week.

[SouthNarc]

That IS the downside SLG if you have to drop trou. I'm running the buckle of a Wilderness belt at about 4 o'clock to get the holster, mag pouch and CP up front.

[ToddG]

=As an aside, Garrity made me a version of that mag pouch a year or so ago while we were still working on the Invictus. It is lower profile (takes up less belt space) and works well, but is not as severely canted, and is designed to go just behind the CP. I'll try and take some photos this week, but may have to wait till next week.

I've got mine lying around somewhere, I'll try to find it and take some photos.

[YVK]

I have a number of leather pouches from various makers, and, almost invariably, I have been less satisfied with retention/speed balance. A vast majority of those that I've owned offer great retention but I need to practically wrestle mags out for a reload.
Kydex generally is just opposite, although some kydex pouches allow for tension adjustment.
How are these fitted in this regard?

[SouthNarc]

The two double stack pouches are fine but the 1911 pouch is REALLY tight.

[YVK]

Don't know if anything can be extrapolated here, but the tightest leather pouches I've owned were for 1911 mags, all while pouches from the same builder for a different single stack mag were fine.
I think I'll order one or three, thanks for heads-up.

[WTAprill]

The two double stack pouches are fine but the 1911 pouch is REALLY tight.

Double wrap the magazine with wax paper, crowbar it into the carrier, and put it on a windowsill in direct sunlight for a day.
Works great!

[LOKNLOD]

I received my reverse cant pouch from DGL this week. Call me a trend-follower if you will, but I saw this thread, had the thought "Hey, that's an idea worth trying..." and since I usually hesitate and buy items that suddenly have a 2.4 year lead time, figured I better order one sooner rather than later. ETA: Consider me impressed that the order was filled in about 3 weeks order-to-my-door. Great service!

I'm still experimenting with the best way to wear it in conjunction with my new belt (still not sure what happens if I ever need to use the bathroom, I may need to run a drain line down my leg and past my boot), but so far my forward-mounted lard reserve is forcing me to place it a little farther towards my left side than SouthNarc shows here to be comfortable when bending/sitting/driving. It seems to conceal well even in that position, even pulling on my shirt to test printing. I'm more or less on house arrest with the little ones while my wife is on bedrest with some late pregancy issues, so I haven't made it to the range with it yet, but I'll keep working on dry-fire.

[Prdator]

Loc,

What gun did you get it for??

[LOKNLOD]

Loc,

What gun did you get it for??

P30 - I've been shooting/carrying it exclusively for a while now.

[Prdator]

P30 - I've been shooting/carrying it exclusively for a while now.

Was so hoping you would say G17!!! I guess Ill have to order one.

[Slavex]

interesting, so basically Open Div has it right in USPSA?
Looking at this setup, would you carry a second mag in a traditional pouch, or even a forward leaning one closer to the middle of your left side or would you add another one of these as close to the first one as you can, or a double setup the same way?

[dookie1481]

This thing is awesome. It took a little adjustment, but it is really handy.

The best way to deal with the belt issue (for me) is to put the buckle just to the left of the mag pouch and run the last 1/4-1/2" of the belt in the tunnel of my Shaggy. Makes on/off much easier than running it to the right of the holster (for a right-handed shooter).

Jay

[Corvus]

I have one of these on order for my M&P.

http://www.shopleatherworks.com/Reverse-Cant-Combo-Carrier-COMBOCARRIER.htm


http://www.shopleatherworks.com/images/IMAG0355.jpg

[phil_in_cs]

I have one of these on order for my M&P.

http://www.shopleatherworks.com/Reverse-Cant-Combo-Carrier-COMBOCARRIER.htm


http://www.shopleatherworks.com/images/IMAG0355.jpg

I asked Josh @ the above site to make me a reverse cant mag holder from kydex, to try to reduce the amount space it takes up in the front of my waist. It worked well in ECQC when I remembered to use it - under pressure I'd still reach for the one on my support side hip. The carrier works - I just need to reset my mind to remember where it is.

[Bratch]

I have one of these on order for my M&P.

http://www.shopleatherworks.com/Reverse-Cant-Combo-Carrier-COMBOCARRIER.htm


http://www.shopleatherworks.com/images/IMAG0355.jpg

Edit: Just saw that you had it on order and not in person.


Are you running your M&P AIWB?

I just received my Desbiens and was playing with it and ended up with my TDI at about 2 o'clock. When I tried to run it between the mag pouch and holster it ended up sticking way out and printing pretty bad. I'm using an In fight Access kydex rig for the TDI.

Just curious if that is a problem with that set up.

[ToddG]

I purchased two of the RC pouches for a P30 and two for a 9mm Glock. After playing with the Glock pouches for two days, I went back to using a normal kydex pouch at 9 o'clock.

Two issues for me:

The magazine printed more. The pouch probably conceals great for guys with flat stomachs. It needs a little tweak to make it more suitable for folks whose stomachs will roll the floorplate forward a bit.
The motion to draw the mag was in the opposite direction I wanted the magazine to go. In other words I have to grab the mag, pull it away from my centerline to clear the pouch, reverse motion, and then insert the mag into the gun. I found it slower and more awkward.


The quality of the pouches is exceedingly high. But for me, given my build and my technique, they don't provide the same level of capability as a regular vertical kydex pouch at 9 o'clock.

[Corvus]

Are you running your M&P AIWB?



I just got the M&P a couple weeks ago and also have holsters on order for it so I have yet to carry it at all. I have tried AIWB with a Glock but went back to about 3 o'clock.

[Pasanova]

SNarc,

Just curious, do you still carry a Disciple with this set up? If so, where do you place the Disciple on your belt?

Thanks

[SouthNarc]

No just the CP.

[JM Campbell]

Two issues for me:

The magazine printed more. The pouch probably conceals great for guys with flat stomachs. It needs a little tweak to make it more suitable for folks whose stomachs will roll the floorplate forward a bit.
The motion to draw the mag was in the opposite direction I wanted the magazine to go. In other words I have to grab the mag, pull it away from my centerline to clear the pouch, reverse motion, and then insert the mag into the gun. I found it slower and more awkward.


The quality of the pouches is exceedingly high. But for me, given my build and my technique, they don't provide the same level of capability as a regular vertical kydex pouch at 9 o'clock.

Would using a strong side carry holder help with your issues? What I mean is have a carrier for a left hand shooter carried on the left side so the mag would point to your right side and be angled more to in the direction of your forward/upwards movement during reloads. Just a thought but it might not fit your needs of carry.

[jlw]

The angled cant just makes sense.

[ToddG]

Would using a strong side carry holder help with your issues? What I mean is have a carrier for a left hand shooter carried on the left side so the mag would point to your right side and be angled more to in the direction of your forward/upwards movement during reloads. Just a thought but it might not fit your needs of carry.

No. I can't even imagine a good way to grip the mag in the pouch if it were canted in that direction.

[jlw]

No. I can't even imagine a good way to grip the mag in the pouch if it were canted in that direction.

At the agency where I started, most of us wore out mags horizontally on the strong side simply for comfort reasons and space availability due to all of the items we had to carry.

I often thought having the carriers angled upward and toward the center line would make for a good way to carry the mags. I still think it could work very well if properly executed

[ToddG]

Horizontal I understand, though I'm not a fan personally. When I carry by fanny pack, my mags are horizontal and I practice a few dry runs before walking out the door.

The canted pouch I understand, too, and think the concept has merit. But as some of the regulars here can attest, when I was trying my RC it was substantially slower than either a vertical pouch at 11 o'clock or 9 o'clock. The mag has to move a fair distance before it clears leather and can move up toward the gun. The process was like zig-zagging the magazine instead of simply drawing it.

[jlw]

Horizontal I understand, though I'm not a fan personally. When I carry by fanny pack, my mags are horizontal and I practice a few dry runs before walking out the door.

The canted pouch I understand, too, and think the concept has merit. But as some of the regulars here can attest, when I was trying my RC it was substantially slower than either a vertical pouch at 11 o'clock or 9 o'clock. The mag has to move a fair distance before it clears leather and can move up toward the gun. The process was like zig-zagging the magazine instead of simply drawing it.

This may very well be true, but the timer probably didn't ride around with 25-30 more pounds of gear in a patrol car for hours, days, weeks, months, years on end. Sometimes creature comfort has win out over what the timer shows on the range.

[JDM]

I got an Email from these folks yesterday,saying that my AIWB holster and the RC pouch was ready. I am gonna send payment tomorrow. I'll chime in shortly.

[ToddG]

This may very well be true, but the timer probably didn't ride around with 25-30 more pounds of gear in a patrol car for hours, days, weeks, months, years on end. Sometimes creature comfort has win out over what the timer shows on the range.

You're saying that a canted pouch makes it easier to carry gear? You've lost me.

[SouthNarc]

Most patrol officers wear vertical mag pouches at 11 o'clock or so versus a true 9. Still that's usually a gut thing......

[jlw]

You're saying that a canted pouch makes it easier to carry gear? You've lost me.

No necessarily. I'm saying that what proves to be faster on the range doesn't always equate into the most comfortable way to pack gear around in uniform and all that goes with that.

[Frank B]

I'm saying that what proves to be faster on the range doesn't always equate into the most comfortable way to pack gear around in uniform and all that goes with that.

IMHO, the RC mag pouch is not the best choise for uniform duty belts, because it´s not designed for. On a duty rig the space where you can place all the stuff, you need, is very limited. For plain clothes work, it´s all changed. The RC pouch conceals well as long as you don´t have developed a gut.
I carry mine at the 10 position and it works well, even with my gut. At the end of the day, it´s a very personal decision, what everyone carry. Given to the angle, the draw is maybe a bit slower.
Concealment and speed goes not always together.

[jlw]

IMHO, the RC mag pouch is not the best choise for uniform duty belts, because it´s not designed for. On a duty rig the space where you can place all the stuff, you need, is very limited. For plain clothes work, it´s all changed. The RC pouch conceals well as long as you don´t have developed a gut.
I carry mine at the 10 position and it works well, even with my gut. At the end of the day, it´s a very personal decision, what everyone carry. Given to the angle, the draw is maybe a bit slower.
Concealment and speed goes not always together.


I wrote nothing suggesting the RC pouch specifically.

I wrote that I thought strong side canted up to the centerline would be a good option.

[SouthNarc]

About 20 years ago I had a double, open top, RC mag pouch that was black basketweave and fit up to a 2.25" Safariland buckleless duty belt. The angle wasn't as rakish as the Desbiens but the concept was exactly the same. That was great pouch. I think it was made by either Tex Shoemaker or El Paso Saddlery IIRC.

[jlw]

About 20 years ago I had a double, open top, RC mag pouch that was black basketweave and fit up to a 2.25" Safariland buckleless duty belt. The angle wasn't as rakish as the Desbiens but the concept was exactly the same. That was great pouch. I think it was made by either Tex Shoemaker or El Paso Saddlery IIRC.

http://www.texshoemaker.com/DCCO-Double-Ammo-Holder-W-Spring-clip-DCCO.htm

Was it this one? It looks like it would sit at an angle on the belt.

[ToddG]

I wrote that I thought strong side canted up to the centerline would be a good option.

Somehow I missed that you were suggesting strong side. I can see where that would work, but I currently carry my gun there.

You know those crappy goofy holsters that have a mag pouch built in forward of the gun? I've always wondered if that concept would actually work well for aiwb.

[jlw]

Somehow I missed that you were suggesting strong side. I can see where that would work, but I currently carry my gun there.

You know those crappy goofy holsters that have a mag pouch built in forward of the gun? I've always wondered if that concept would actually work well for aiwb.

I've got a bad case of biscuit poisoning; so, AIWB carry isn't for me. LOL

I rarely carry IWB unless I need really deep cover, and when I do, it is usually with a S&W 642 or sometimes a Glock 26/27.

[JDM]

Aaaannnnddddd Necrothread!!!


Three months have elapsed since I transitioned to this pouch to carry my spare magazine. I've come to these conclusions:

-it's comfortable. Not that carrying an extra magazine was ever drastically uncomfortable, but the weak side magazine carriers I used previous to the RCMP tucked the mag aggressively into my torso, so I never really forgot about That extra magazine. This pouch does not do that...at all. Quite lovely.

-It conceals, for me, VERY well. I run my belt buckle at 4:30, and thread the belt behind my body. The pouch is split by the last belt loop before the closure on my pants, and is slid to my right until it touches the loop for my Shaggy that is at 1:00. It is by far the best concealing mag carrier I've used, and that's a big deal. I've always found it harder to hide the mag than the gun, and this eliminates that problem.

-I found no appreciable difference in the quickness of my reloads after getting acclimated to the pouch. At first it was, as all changes like this are, slower. Now that I've retrained myself on it, it is just as fast as a regular vertical pouch. What it did NOT do however, was speed things up, which is fine.

Now for some completely unsubstantiated speculation- if I was shooting A LOT faster than I am (fast advanced/expert FAST) I think a vertical pouch at 11:00 would be faster. Just a guess, and it doesn't matter, because 1. I'm not that good, and 2. The small price I may be giving up in speed is more than made up for in other benefits.

-accessibility in seated positions is much better-it's an appendix carried magazine. Duh.

-the build quality is GOOD!


I'm quite pleased with the Reverse Cant Magazine Pouch, and if nothing else, it's worth a try if you find carrying a magazine in the "standard" place a burden.

[Sparks2112]

EXTREME Necro thread. Out of curiosity does anyone know of a Kydex maker, or other leather maker who's trying something similar but doesn't have a hellacious wait time? I'm starting to try to carry everything on the centerline, and the mag carrier is presenting an issue.

[CCT125US]

Sparks, I will post up some pics of my setup on Tuesday.

[Sparks2112]

Sparks, I will post up some pics of my setup on Tuesday.

Am I going to spend money? :confused:

[orionz06]

I played with the idea before and concluded that leather is a more optimal material in this case. I do things a little differently now but the Desbiens was better, even having one in hand to work from.

Was there a specific alteration you were looking for or simply just product in hand sooner than later?

[CCT125US]

Am I going to spend money? :confused:

I had one made, then decided I wanted something different. Made my current setup myself and cost a couple bucks for kydex and some time.

[Sparks2112]

I played with the idea before and concluded that leather is a more optimal material in this case. I do things a little differently now but the Desbiens was better, even having one in hand to work from.

Was there a specific alteration you were looking for or simply just product in hand sooner than later?

It occurred to me that adding some form of wedge may help out those of us who eat too much and move too little, and yeah, I'd rather measure wait time in weeks than months.

Why was the leather better?

[Clyde from Carolina]

I ordered one of these last week to give it a whirl. Looks like worth trying for me. Now the wait...

[Sparks2112]

I had one made, then decided I wanted something different. Made my current setup myself and cost a couple bucks for kydex and some time.

That's even worse, seeing something that I can't buy. ;)

[Sparks2112]

I ordered one of these last week to give it a whirl. Looks like worth trying for me. Now the wait...

Did they quote you a time?

[orionz06]

It occurred to me that adding some form of wedge may help out those of us who eat too much and move too little, and yeah, I'd rather measure wait time in weeks than months.

Why was the leather better?

I think by the time you start adding some wedge to a mag you really start to hamper your reload speed. I know it's not USPSA but at some point performance matters. The Desbiens conformed better and had some give to it. Kydex held too tight to the body and was harder to shape and get a similar footprint. Using my soft loops now may add the give I felt necessary at the time but this still remains on the list of things I'd rather buy from someone else. It could still be feasible, I've been approached with the idea before and have a few new things that may help but this one works.

[CCT125US]

That's even worse, seeing something that I can't buy. ;)

Believe me, if I can make it, I am sure orionz06 can duplicate it.

[Clyde from Carolina]

Did they quote you a time?

No, just said they would notify me a week out to make sure I still wanted it, or to make any changes. Just sent them an email to find out what approximate lead times are running.

[Clyde from Carolina]

Did they quote you a time?

Just heard back...9-12 months.

[JDM]

Just heard back...9-12 months.

Wow.

When I bought my DGL #4 and RCMP it was an 8 week wait.

[ADKilla]

Just heard back...9-12 months.

Belen confirmed this is indeed the lead time a few hours ago. Rhome's had some health issues.

[CCT125US]

That's even worse, seeing something that I can't buy. ;)

Just posted the pics in the spare mag thread.



http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?7952-Spare-Mag-Carry/page3

[Sparks2112]

I got super lucky and had a chance to pick up one of these pouches. So far it's working VERY well for me. 1529 I'm pleased.

[Up1911Fan]

Glad it's working out for you.

[Sparks2112]

Glad it's working out for you.

Yeah, thanks man!