Shot a HK Squeeze Cocker: P7M8

[RJ]

...Actually two of them.

Unbenownst to me, it turns out a close family member has a bunch of H&K pistols and he brought them to the range yesterday for our range session with my VP9 for me to have a go. Among the set of guns he brought (which included a USP 45 and a USP 9mm Compact) was his single and double stack P7s (P7M8 and P7M13, if I have the nomenclature right.)

First time ever shooting one of these; actually I'd never seen one before, so it was pretty cool.

I'm not sure I liked the squeeze cocker aspect of the grip, but boy it was accurate. I gather the barrel is fixed to the frame, and recoil is managed by the blow-back system.

(It did get a little hot, even after just a couple magazines. :) )

Gun felt heavy (duh) and the trigger was very crisp and light, compared to my M&P/VP9.

It was a pretty interesting experience for me, being new to guns and all that. :cool:

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/30/a61450bd43d1ad887f2513e88893c300.jpg

[JHC]

I owned one of the Euro mag release PSP (P7) for a spell. Pretty amazing pistol. I wouldn't want to build my battery and training around it but it was pretty amazing to shoot.

[rauchman]

I had picked up a P7 PSP some years ago when they first started showing up as used West German police pistols. I rarely take it out, but it is very unique. The recoil signature is very fast and flat, and as you mentioned, the pistol is a laser beam. I have to send mine to HK to have a spring replaced, but it's a keeper.

[SAWBONES]

The P7M8 was the first gun I ever bought, back in 1985.

Precision and accuracy outclassing pretty much any other handgun, but they DO get hot after a few dozen rounds, right beneath the gas piston chamber, where your trigger finger sits!

[psalms144.1]

I've owned a number of P7M8s over the years, and, they're still on my short list of "all time favorites." It's a shame that HK stopped producing them, though I understand the financial reasons for them doing so. Actually, it's probably a good thing, or I'd be tempted to add the M8 to my "approved personal weapons list" and then end up carrying that critter around every now and again just for "cool points."

While the trigger doesn't compare to a nice 1911 trigger, it is much better than any other striker fired factory trigger I've felt, and, as you experienced, the accuracy is simply phenomenal.

Don't try to check one out for yourself unless you're ready for some SERIOUS sticker shock - like 3-5 times as much as a VP9...

I have one left, it'll stay in my safe and be handed down to the luckiest of my kids one day.

[YVK]

The P7M8 was the first gun I ever bought, back in ...

...2004 for me.

Sold it about two years ago. A neat piece, but for me the cons eventually outweighed the pros.

[Shumba]

My bride and I have carried P7s every day since 1985.
The GSG9 requirements for the original gun did not contemplate high volume range sessions.
I have an M13 as well. During training I use both guns due to the gas cylinder heat issues, shooting one while the other cools.
We also find the 24 pound recoil spring to be an issue with arthritic hands.
We just got a VP9 and like it very much, but for concealment the P7 wins hand down.
Shumba

[Andy T]

HK P7PSP was the only pistol I sold, literally the day after I bought/shot it for the first time. Between the squeeze cocking and the manual of arms, it is "too special" for my taste but does make a good collectible.

[1slow]

I had one of the butt mag release ones in 1984. It was very reliable and neat in a different mechanism sort of way. I once took apart the squeeze cock mechanism and polished some contact points. I will NEVER do that again. I did get it back together properly.

Fast forward to owning 4 P7 M8s and having 2 down with broken parts in light use. 1 left side mag release broke, 1 squeeze cocking mechanism broken. I had not messed with these 4 at all other than Trijicon sights.
Sold all 4 and 20 plus mags and replaced them with P200SK LEM 9mms. No regrets.

[RJ]

Thanks all, very interesting comments.

I don't aspire to own one, but it sure was interesting to shoot; kind of like having a bit of history in your very own hands.

[1slow]

I had one of the butt mag release ones in 1984. It was very reliable and neat in a different mechanism sort of way. I once took apart the squeeze cock mechanism and polished some contact points. I will NEVER do that again. I did get it back together properly.

Fast forward to owning 4 P7 M8s and having 2 down with broken parts in light use. 1 left side mag release broke, 1 squeeze cocking mechanism broken. I had not messed with these 4 at all other than Trijicon sights.
Sold all 4 and 20 plus mags and replaced them with P200SK LEM 9mms. No regrets.

Should be P2000SK LEM 9mm.

[SAWBONES]

Fast forward to owning 4 P7 M8s and having 2 down with broken parts in light use. 1 left side mag release broke, 1 squeeze cocking mechanism broken.

Not at all commensurate with my own experience.

I have two P7M8s.

Nothing on either one has ever broken, after uncounted tens of thousands of rounds.

My first (circa '85) P7M8 has never had a single malfunction of any kind, ever.
Not one.

Nothing's perfect, but P7s definitely aren't known for being fragile, finicky or malfunction-prone.

[HopetonBrown]

I have one of these I bought new, supposedly from the last batch. After about 3 mags it gets too hot to shoot. Frequently the slide gets stuck back; I think from the carbon buildup on the gas piston. Supposedly the first gun to curse the world with 3 dot sights. I won't sell it, but it doesn't see daylight much any more.

[LSP972]

Nothing's perfect, but P7s definitely aren't known for being fragile, finicky or malfunction-prone.

That opinion is not universally held.

I had four as well; two heelers and two M8s. One of each broke; the heeler broke twice- firing pin bushing the first time, drop safety spring the second.

We had a pair of M8s for T&E back in the mid-90s. Both broke.

They are incredibly innovative, neat pistols; and IMO, they were never intended for high-volume shooting. The average German cop fires less than 30 rounds per year, except for those few who shoot recreationally, on their own.

Agreed, they rarely malfunction. They just break.

[LSP972]

Frequently the slide gets stuck back; I think from the carbon buildup on the gas piston.

You need to scrape the gas tube, that the piston runs in. There is built-up fouling at the back end. And you need the special tool to do it properly. Doing it improperly (i.e., with an improvised tool) runs the risk of damaging that tube... and then the gun is toast.

.

[Dagga Boy]

You need to scrape the gas tube, that the piston runs in. There is built-up fouling at the back end. And you need the special tool to do it properly. Doing it improperly (i.e., with an improvised tool) runs the risk of damaging that tube... and then the gun is toast.

.

If you have a P7 without the factory cleaning tool..........you're just wrong. It needs it for every cleaning, and unlike everything else, my P7's get cleaned the second I get home from the range. Also, don't go nuts cleaning the piston itself, it does more damage than it helps. Let something like Slip 2000 Carbon Killer sit in the back of the tube the piston goes in before and during scraping and the gun will run well when you are done cleaning. The quality of materials used in the P7's make them "lifetime guns" (and likely your kids and theirs). They will break various small parts, and I attribute a lot of that to heat build up. It is not that they were not intended for high round counts, they just don't like them all at once. P7's are great single box of ammo to the range gun (like most folks normally shoot). Generally, with my P30/VP9/Glocks, etc. I usually shoot round counts of 250 rounds during range sessions. With the P7's, it is usually a single box.

They are really solid guns. They just are not like anything else out there. They are unique and actually very good for a lot of people because of their specific attributes. They are not Glocks and need to be used different. If you use and maintain them like their real competition at the time, the .38 revolver, you will be fine.

[LSP972]

They will break various small parts, and I attribute a lot of that to heat build up. .

Could be. Whatever the cause, it was enough to make me ditch them. And I should have kept one of the heelers; it was a factory-refurb, with letter, that HK had sent to Robbie for NP3. I was told they did less than a hundred of those, and you could identify them by the "15-" serial number prefix. Mine was so prefixed.

Note to self... DO NOT do any gun business until you have gotten over the case of red-ass...:rolleyes:

.

[Chipster]

Phenomenal UC guns. Their manual of arms is a HUGE advantage! Try this, give your gun to someone you know that knows nothing about the P7 and have them attempt to dry fire it. Time them and imagine drawing your backup or your alternative plan.

That said, I'm out of that role so mine have been sold

[1986s4]

I used to regularly shoot with a group of guys who loved the P7. Most of them had at least two P7's for heat reasons and occasional parts breakage. It wasn't so much that parts would break from regular use but it was parts availability that caused these users to have more than one of these pistols.
I always wanted one, still do but the expense of the pistol and enough mags keep me away.

[Tamara]

There are few pistols as easy to feel madly, irrationally loyal towards than the P7, that's for sure. Maybe custom 1911s?

[SAWBONES]

If you have a P7 without the factory cleaning tool..........you're just wrong. It needs it for every cleaning, and unlike everything else, my P7's get cleaned the second I get home from the range. Also, don't go nuts cleaning the piston itself, it does more damage than it helps. Let something like Slip 2000 Carbon Killer sit in the back of the tube the piston goes in before and during scraping and the gun will run well when you are done cleaning. The quality of materials used in the P7's make them "lifetime guns" (and likely your kids and theirs). They will break various small parts, and I attribute a lot of that to heat build up. It is not that they were not intended for high round counts, they just don't like them all at once. P7's are great single box of ammo to the range gun (like most folks normally shoot). Generally, with my P30/VP9/Glocks, etc. I usually shoot round counts of 250 rounds during range sessions. With the P7's, it is usually a single box.

They are really solid guns. They just are not like anything else out there. They are unique and actually very good for a lot of people because of their specific attributes. They are not Glocks and need to be used different. If you use and maintain them like their real competition at the time, the .38 revolver, you will be fine.

^^^^^^^
This.

P7s DO require assiduous cleaning of the gas piston chamber.

If you know what to do and what NOT to do (blunt the edges of the gas piston flanges), it's good to clean the gas piston thoroughly too, otherwise just wipe it down well.

[LSP552]

That opinion is not universally held.

I had four as well; two heelers and two M8s. One of each broke; the heeler broke twice- firing pin bushing the first time, drop safety spring the second.

We had a pair of M8s for T&E back in the mid-90s. Both broke.

They are incredibly innovative, neat pistols; and IMO, they were never intended for high-volume shooting. The average German cop fires less than 30 rounds per year, except for those few who shoot recreationally, on their own.

Agreed, they rarely malfunction. They just break.

And when the T&E guns broke, HK's attitude to the question why was whatever, no big deal. Yes, big deal when both broke the squeeze cock mechanism and wouldn't fire. Needless to say they were not added to the list of authorized private purchase duty guns.

[Shumba]

There are few pistols as easy to feel madly, irrationally loyal towards than the P7, that's for sure. Maybe custom 1911s?
Guilty as charged, Your Honor!
Shumba

[SAWBONES]

There are few pistols as easy to feel madly, irrationally loyal towards than the P7, that's for sure. Maybe custom 1911s?

Yup.

And certain revolvers. ;)

But not any polymer-frame pistols, functional as they may be.

[SAWBONES]

That opinion is not universally held.

I had four as well; two heelers and two M8s. One of each broke; the heeler broke twice- firing pin bushing the first time, drop safety spring the second.

We had a pair of M8s for T&E back in the mid-90s. Both broke.

They are incredibly innovative, neat pistols; and IMO, they were never intended for high-volume shooting. The average German cop fires less than 30 rounds per year, except for those few who shoot recreationally, on their own.

Agreed, they rarely malfunction. They just break.



Not so much an "opinion" as an experience, based on pistol status after shooting tens of thousands of rounds, given careful attention to the condition of the gas piston chamber and the gas piston after every shooting.

Maybe I've just been lucky, but I think they're exceptionally well made and reliable pistols, given proper care.

Maybe my P7M8s' firing pin bushings will break tomorrow, but I doubt it.

For those who want a reasonably reliable pistol that requires little or no attention to detailed maintenance, I'd suggest a 9mm Glock pistol of one or another generation. Some precision and accuracy are lost in comparison to a P7, but it's unlikely to matter unless you're a GSG-9 pistol-sniper. ;)

The P7s do need some extra attention to detail regarding care, and aren't for Bubba-types, but they're definitely not unduly finicky.

[Dagga Boy]

And when the T&E guns broke, HK's attitude to the question why was whatever, no big deal. Yes, big deal when both broke the squeeze cock mechanism and wouldn't fire. Needless to say they were not added to the list of authorized private purchase duty guns.

It is bizarre at the radical differences folks have. I have a supply of spare parts for my p7's I have never needed, and they were the one gun that most folks did get good customer service on in the bad days of HK customer service. Maybe its cause you guys talk funny....;).

[Drifting Fate]

If they still made them, I would probably make them my carry pistol. Sadly, I got rid of my only squeeze-cocker long ago in partial trade for a BMW GS/PD. Great bike, but a steep price to pay. If still supported, I'd happily ditch my G19 for one.

[LSP972]

Not so much an "opinion" as an experience...

I understood that. And to repeat your quote… my experience has been otherwise. And I didn't say the were unduly finicky… I said they tend to break.

FWIW, I was just as fastidious in my maintenance as you. The gun demands it, for one thing.

Whatever… not worth arguing over. I'm glad yours are working out well.

.

[Tamara]

...they were the one gun that most folks did get good customer service on in the bad days of HK customer service.

Back in '03, HK never did get around to sending us a FP safety spring and Shannon wound up making one for my neighbor's gun (http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-42211.html).

[YVK]

Mine broke both the FP bushing and drop safety spring at under 8K.

Which is about when my G19 broke a slide stop spring, and 3K after P30 broke its trigger return spring(s). So, I'd say par for the course or better as far as my experience is concerned.
Getting the stuff fixed or replaced was subpar.

[LSP552]

It is bizarre at the radical differences folks have. I have a supply of spare parts for my p7's I have never needed, and they were the one gun that most folks did get good customer service on in the bad days of HK customer service. Maybe its cause you guys talk funny....;).

I think that goes to the whole small sample size thing. It also makes me wonder if there were any regional differences in support?

By the way, I'm not a native. Both of my parents are from East Texas, and I was born in a military hospital, I figure I''m really just a transplanted Texan. Kind of like having dual citizenship:cool:

[Sigfan26]

Mine broke both the FP bushing and drop safety spring at under 8K.

Which is about when my G19 broke a slide stop spring, and 3K after P30 broke its trigger return spring(s). So, I'd say par for the course or better as far as my experience is concerned.
Getting the stuff fixed or replaced was subpar.

Holy crap! If you didn't have bad luck, you wouldn't have any.

[vandal]

For the first five years I had kids I felt very comfortable leaving that gun on the nightstand, even if one of the kids was to come in in the middle of the night. No way they could operate it (lack of hand size and strength). I sold it for other reasons but that safety feature could have lasted until they were probably eight or so.

I did find that in my big hands it was hard to keep the P7M8 fully cocked, kind of like it's easier to squeeze a 2x4 hard than it is to squeeze a pencil hard. I had to re-fully-cock between shots sometimes. The P7M13 was a little better in that regard.

I found it a tough gun to carry because all the weight was in the grip and there was little barrel/slide length for counter leverage.

I remember being able to put multiple hits on 1" target pasters with it at 15 yds. Although the trigger had a unique rolling feel it seemed to contribute to good accuracy.