Week 104: El Presidente Three Ways

[Mr_White]

Week 104: El Presidente Three Ways

Designed by: Jeff Cooper
Range: 10 yards
Target: Three USPSA Metric targets
Start Position: Facing uprange, wrists above shoulders
Rounds Fired: 12 (We are doing six reps and will fire 72 total rounds in this DotW)
Procedure: Start with pistol loaded and holstered, facing uprange with wrists above shoulders. Upon start signal, turn and draw and shoot two shots to each target, reload, and shoot two shots to each target. No extra shots allowed.

Variations:

Concealment is optional (not required in either the Cooper or USPSA Classifier version.)

Targets spaced three yards apart (Cooper version) or three feet apart (USPSA Classifier version.)

Pistol loaded with exactly six rounds to start (Cooper version), or more than that (USPSA Classifier version.)

IDPA targets are optional.

For this drill of the week, we'll shoot this classic practical pistol drill six times and compare a few different types of scoring.

Shoot this drill twice with pass/fail scoring. All A/-0 hits to pass. Record hits and times.

Shoot this drill twice with time-plus scoring. Record hits and times. Your score is your raw time, plus .5 second for each B/C-zone hit, plus 1.5 seconds for each D-zone hit, and plus 2.5 seconds for each miss. No penalty for A-zone hits.

Shoot this drill twice with comstock/hit factor scoring. Record hits and times. Add up the points. Divide your points by your time to get your hit factor. For the sake of simplicity, if you are shooting 9mm/.38 Spl, you will have Minor scoring. If you are shooting .40/.45/.357, you will have Major scoring. For Minor scoring, A = 5 points, B/C = 3 points, D = 1 point. For Major scoring, A = 5 points, B/C = 4 points, D = 2 points. If you are using IDPA targets, score the -0 zones as As, the -1 zone as Cs, and the -3 zone as Ds.

As references, 10 seconds with all As was a benchmark in the original Cooper version. In the USPSA Classifier version (CM 99-11), the Production high hit factor (100%) is 10.261133 and the Limited high hit factor (100%) is 10.8012006.

Please report the following when you post your results in this thread:

Equipment used: gun, holster, concealment (if any)
Variations used: USPSA or IDPA targets, target spacing, whether you started loaded with six rounds or more than that
Pass/fail runs: hits, time, and pass/fail for each of the two runs
Time-plus runs: raw time, hits and penalties, and total score for each of the two runs
Comstock/hit factor runs: hits and points, time, and final score (hit factor) for each of the two runs
Observations: anything you noticed or thoughts you have regarding the three different scoring methods

Training with firearms is an inherently dangerous activity. Be sure to follow all safety protocols when using firearms or practicing these drills. These drills are provided for information purposes only. Use at your own risk.

[Clobbersaurus]

I had time to shoot this drill today.


Equipment used: Girsan Compact 9mm (Beretta Centurion clone), bladetech holster, stupid looking vest for concealment.
Variations used: IPSC targets (those Salvador Dali stop sign looking things), Cooper target spacing, started loaded with six rounds

Pass/fail runs:
1)12.61 - Pass - I had a malfunction with the Girsan on this run, a failure to return to battery, I quick tap on the back of the hammer/slide fixed it and I finished the drill.
2) 10.84 + 3Cs - Fail

Time-plus runs:
1)9.92 - all A's
2) 11.59 +2C's = 12.59 I froze on the reload for some reason and then tried to burn through to make the hits.

Comstock/hit factor runs (I hope I calculated this properly - if not please set me straight):
1) 11.49 +1C = 57/11.49 = 5.04
2) 7.88 +6C = 54/7.88 = 6.85

Observations:
This is a harder drill than I anticipated. I've done a lot of turning in dry fire, so that wasn't an issue, the wider transitions were fairly new to me. Going for pure speed is the way to go with the hit factor runs, and it's the reason I went for it (as fast as my slowness will allow) in the last evolution.

[Mike R]

This is the prequel, I suppose- interested in trying this drill with the 3 methods of scoring to see how it affects my results. As a USPSA shooter that shoots major I have been pretty comfortable with charlies, and the pass/fail or time plus seem kind of harsh to me- which is probably why I should try them. I just happened to shoot this a half dozen times two weeks ago.

Equipment used: 6" 40 2011, DAA Racemaster holster and pouches.
Variations used: USPSA setup, metric targets, starting with 21 rds.

Best was 5.41 with 55 points, for a 10.16 hit factor.
Worst was 5.80 with 56 points, for a 9.65 hit factor.

I'll try to shoot this at the range this weekend with the 3 methods of scoring.

[JHC]

This'll be fun.

I just got beat in a Comstock scored match by a buddy by 1.0 in total hit factor. On a steel stage he ran out of ammo and came up 5 hits short. BEAT me on that stage too! Time-Plus should be Federal law. ;)

[DocGKR]

Equipment used: G19 w/RMR07 carried AIWB in a JM Custom holster from under an untucked short sleeve Carhart shirt firing Fed AE9FP 147 gr FMJ.

Pass/fail runs: Cooper version with 3 yard spacing, only 6 shots in magazines, slide lock reload. First run 9.52 sec (-1c) = Fail; Second run 9.70 sec clean = Pass

Time-plus runs: USPSA Classifier version with 1 yard spacing, full magazines, reload with slide in battery. First run = 8.01 sec clean; Second run = 7.55 sec (-1c) for 8.05 sec

Comstock/hit factor runs: USPSA Classifier version with 1 yard spacing, full magazines, reload with slide in battery. First run 6.84 sec (-2c) for hit factor of 8.19; Second run = 7.01 sec (-1c) for hit factor of 8.27

Observations: Shooting the Cooper version with the wider target spacing, slide lock reload, and pass-fail all A-zone scoring is more difficult. Hosing the Comstock version is more fun!

[JHC]

Equipment used: G19 w/RMR07 carried AIWB in a JM Custom holster from under an untucked short sleeve Carhart shirt firing Fed AE9FP 147 gr FMJ.

Pass/fail runs: Cooper version with 3 yard spacing, only 6 shots in magazines, slide lock reload. First run 9.52 sec (-1c) = Fail; Second run 9.70 sec clean = Pass

Time-plus runs: USPSA Classifier version with 1 yard spacing, full magazines, reload with slide in battery. First run = 8.01 sec clean; Second run = 7.55 sec (-1c) for 8.05 sec

Comstock/hit factor runs: USPSA Classifier version with 1 yard spacing, full magazines, reload with slide in battery. First run 6.84 sec (-2c) for hit factor of 8.19; Second run = 7.01 sec (-1c) for hit factor of 8.27

Observations: Shooting the Cooper version with the wider target spacing, slide lock reload, and pass-fail all A-zone scoring is more difficult. Hosing the Comstock version is more fun!

Amazing differences highlighted! Thanks!

[Range1]

I was finally able to get to the range today and shoot this in a light rain. Not complaining as it wasn’t snow or ice so all was good.

Equipment: Glock 34, CompTac strong side owb holster, Safariland single magazine holder under open front jacket

Variations: USPSA targets spaced 3 feet apart edge to edge; started with 6 rounds in the magazine

Pass/Fail Runs: Both fail – Run 1 had 1 C and 11 As in 10.72; Run 2 had 2 Cs and 10 As in 12.13

Time Plus: Run 1 raw time 12.55, had 4 Cs for a +2 and final score 14.55; Run 2 raw time 10.03, had 2 Cs for a +1 and final score 11.03

Comstock/hit factor: Run 1 – 9.14, 7 As, 4 Cs, 1D for 48 points final score 5.25; Run 2 – 10.29, 9 As, 2 Cs, 1D for 52 points final score 5.05

Observations: Don’t really care for the Pass/Fail that much. Should have passed both runs easy by just slowing down, but kept pushing on the last target for some reason. Adding the par time (10.0) makes it tougher while still emphasizing accuracy. Time plus scoring seems generally more balanced to me in that it awards both speed and accuracy. Comstock/Hit factor just seems too complicated to me and awards speed over accuracy which is fine if that is the desired outcome. Little mistakes or momentary loss of concentration cost dearly. All in all at my skill level doesn’t make much difference, I suck at all of them. On the plus side I have plenty of room for improvement and so far working on those skills is still fun.

[Corey]

M&P9 fs, Blade Tech IDPA holster and mag carrier, no concealment.

I used IDPA targets and set up the Cooper version with 3 yard spacing and slide lock reload. I also shot this cold, had not been to the range in about a week and this was the only shooting I did during this range session.

Run 1: 13.37, -1, -0, -1 Fail
Run 2: 12.28 -1, -0, -0 Fail
Run 3: 11.53 -0, -1, -4 Score: 14.03
Run 4: 10.03 -1, -1, -2 Score: 12.03
Run 5: 9.40 -1, -1, -0 Hit Factor: 5.96
Run 6: 9.29 -1, -1, -2 Hit Factor: 5.60

Observations: I couldn't get a clean run to save my life! That is very frustrating. I also saw how much repetition helps, each run getting faster while hits stayed fairly consistent. The wide transitions took some getting used to, I have not shot the Cooper version of this drill in a loooong time. I actually calculated my scores using time plus and hit factor for each run to compare. It was very clear that hit factor favors speed over precise shooting compared to time plus scoring.

[Mr_White]

Gen3 G34 in a Keeper concealed under a polo shirt. Used USPSA Metric targets for all runs, gun loaded with six rounds/slidelock reload on all runs.

Pass/fail runs: 3 yd target spacing, hands down start. 7.76 clean, Pass. 7.21 clean, Pass.

Time-plus runs: 3 yd target spacing, hands down start. 6.42 + 1.0 (2 Cs) = 7.42. 5.48 + 1.0 (2 Cs) = 6.48.

Comstock/hit factor runs: 1 yd target spacing, hands up start. 11A1C = 58 points/4.90 seconds = 11.83 hit factor. 10A2C = 56 points/4.90 seconds = 11.42 hit factor. (Surprised myself with those runs and did one more to see how fast I could try to get hits on paper - 9A2C1D = 52 points/4.41 seconds = 11.79 hit factor.)

Now that I am rereading the drill description, I can see I should have done a hands up start on all three variations.

Sorry about not getting the closing date listed - this one will be closing after 4/20/2015.


Observations: Shooting the Cooper version with the wider target spacing, slide lock reload, and pass-fail all A-zone scoring is more difficult. Hosing the Comstock version is more fun!

Definitely agree.

[EricM]

Unfortunately my monthly outdoor range trip last week got postponed, had to stay home with a sick toddler instead. As this drill isn't really compatible with an indoor range, the best I could do was to run it with my IR SIRT and LASR software. So while it doesn't really count, it was still useful to me, as the next thing I want to focus on is using this setup to work on transitions.

Equipment: IR SIRT concealed AIWB under T-shirt
Variation: USPSA targets, 3' apart, 10 yards
Pass/fail runs: 11.35 (pass), 11.00 (pass)
Time-plus runs: 9.71 +2C = 10.71, 9.86
Comstock/hit factor runs: 9.76 +2C => 56/9.76 = 5.74, 9.54 => 60/9.54 = 6.29

The LASR software is pretty cool. It knows what a USPSA target is so you just identify the outer boundary and it scores your hits. You can designate a "special" target that, when hit, will save the targets along with hits, splits, and score to a file, also resetting its timer to kick off the next iteration (today I used the B-8 that happened to be on the wall already). The output looks like this:

http://icedesigns.com/echo0603/pf/042015/ep.jpg

[Mr_White]

That is pretty cool, Eric!