If you were going to run 10k carrying rifle, pistol, ammo, how would you do it?

[SLG]

How is everyone's training going?

Almost non existent:-(

Don't even have a zero'd rifle right now, let alone good running.

You coming?

[breakingtime91]

so I'm not sure I would be able to do it but where is this competition?

[BobM]

I've been Googling for similar events in or relatively near Ohio. Anyone know of any?

[Bratch]

so I'm not sure I would be able to do it but where is this competition?

Pawnee, OK. They run the competition twice a year and it sells out pretty quick.


Almost non existent:-(

Don't even have a zero'd rifle right now, let alone good running.

You coming?

Depending on what is going on I could probably be talked into a trip up for dinner Friday or Saturday night. Would be nice to see everyone again even though I'm not running.

[littlejerry]

How is everyone's training going?

So far: meh.

As with the prior 2 races I'm feeling very out of shape 1 month out. Combo of travel and long hours at work made it easy to slack off. The odd thing is my wife and coworkers have noted that I look like I've lost weight, and I have lost about 10 lbs since January, but my running performance hasn't changed much at all.

I hit the 600 yard range yesterday and got solid 200/300/600 yard zeros in 75F temps. Should be good enough for OK.

I'm doing 1 USPSA match and Frank Proctors 2 gun match between now and the race. That with a few weeknight pistol sessions will be my shooting related prep.


I've changed up my gear and will be running BFG 10-speed belt pouches along with a generic running hydration pack. Trying to go lightweight for this race. 3 rifle mags, 3 pistol mags, 70 oz of water.

[FOG]

Training is going according to plan. For this last phase I'm doing high volume/low intensity sessions with an emphasis on heat acclimation and minimal water intake. Diet is much stricter and has made a big difference.. Undoubtedly, I'm in much better condition than last year.

Rules for this special 20k side-event I'm doing require .30 cal with iron sights so after much debate, I'm running a Ruger Gunsite Scout .308. Between dry and live fire, it's in my hands every night.

Pistol skills have shown marked improvement since taking a good class back in March. Got one more class I'd like to squeeze in the next few weeks if the instructor and I can get our schedules to mesh but he's been pretty busy as of late I imagine. I need to text him and see what can be arranged.

I have to be a RO so Ill be running on Friday which means I'll probably drag my camping trailer down there Thursday and stay that night and Friday. I definately would like to meet up for a steak with you guys.

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[FOG]

Almost non existent:-(

Don't even have a zero'd rifle right now, let alone good running.

You coming?
... and if there was a Calcutta, I'd still put my money on you.

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[SLG]

Training is going according to plan. For this last phase I'm doing high volume/low intensity sessions with an emphasis on heat acclimation and minimal water intake. Diet is much stricter and has made a big difference.. Undoubtedly, I'm in much better condition than last year.

Rules for this special 20k side-event I'm doing require .30 cal with iron sights so after much debate, I'm running a Ruger Gunsite Scout .308. Between dry and live fire, it's in my hands every night.

Pistol skills have shown marked improvement since taking a good class back in March. Got one more class I'd like to squeeze in the next few weeks if the instructor and I can get our schedules to mesh but he's been pretty busy as of late I imagine. I need to text him and see what can be arranged.

I have to be a RO so Ill be running on Friday which means I'll probably drag my camping trailer down there Thursday and stay that night and Friday. I definitely would like to meet up for a steak with you guys.

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I bet you're going to crush it this year. If you see me panting on the side, help a brother out.

[SLG]

... and if there was a Calcutta, I'd still put my money on you.

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Saw this right after I posted. I'm going to feel stupid, but what's a Calcutta?


Google foo:
(sometimes lowercase). Also called Calcutta pool. a form of betting pool for a competition or tournament, as golf or auto racing, in which gamblers bid for participating contestants in an auction, the proceeds from which are put into a pool for distribution, according to a prearranged scale of percentages, to those who selected winners.

I appreciate that, but really, the running is a big deal, and there are lots of good runners around. Just luck how it worked out last time.

[LOKNLOD]

FOG, You're a beast man. 20k, damn.

I need some advice on water carriage. Last time since I drew 4th runner, I hardly had time to stop and suck water; luckily the weather was conducive to that. This time the weather won't be that forgiving, and eve though I've wussed out to do the 5k (I donated the other 5k to FOG's 20k fund), I could still end up with long wait times. I need to figure out the right balance of water to carry, but also a good way to carry it. Minimalistic camelback?

[Drang]

261 posts in this thread, and not a single person has answered the question

If you were going to run 10k carrying rifle, pistol, ammo, how would you do it?
thusly:

I would lay down until the urge went away...
I used to do it, of course, in BDUs, and combat boots. So maybe that has something to do with my attitude...

[FOG]

I need some advice on water carriage.

It boils down to the old 'prepare for the worst...' adage. A man could get by with 1L on the 5k but 2 or even 3L would be safer. Much depends on start time too. 1L = approx 2.5 #. LJ can attest to what happens if you run out.

Camelback would be good. I'm partial to the Geigerrig pressure systems myself. Id like to pair that with a HPG Tarahumara pack.



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[Bratch]

FOG, You're a beast man. 20k, damn.

I need some advice on water carriage. Last time since I drew 4th runner, I hardly had time to stop and suck water; luckily the weather was conducive to that. This time the weather won't be that forgiving, and eve though I've wussed out to do the 5k (I donated the other 5k to FOG's 20k fund), I could still end up with long wait times. I need to figure out the right balance of water to carry, but also a good way to carry it. Minimalistic camelback?

I used a small Osprey backpack this winter that worked great. I had my mags, water, and a little food in it to keep my waistline slick.

If I wasn't worried about needing to carry mags in the pack I would look at the trail running packs. They are usually vest and are a lot more stable than some of the other packs. They usually have pockets for stashing gear but weren't robust enough for AR mags.

[LOKNLOD]

I'm going to try to use my belt rig this time to keep the weight low and stable (heck anything flops some when you're running - can't be worse than a sling pack, right?). It's not perfect but really no gear is - and half the fun of these things is trying to figure out the right blend of "good enough" that covers all bases. At any rate I lost a (relative) lot of time due to poor access and ammo management during the shoot stages.

Training wise, nope not where I want to be, but I'll keep trying. Need to tighten up the diet as dropping a few more pounds would be about as big of a help as anything else. I've been doing some body weight, dumbell, kettle bell work and LSd on the rower but need to get out and RUN more.

[littlejerry]

Alright, less than one week out. Who's ready?

The heat has been kicking my butt in GA. Not excited to feel OK heat

PF dinner after the race? I unfortunately missed the one in January.

[LOKNLOD]

Alright, less than one week out. Who's ready?

The heat has been kicking my butt in GA. Not excited to feel OK heat

PF dinner after the race? I unfortunately missed the one in January.

The heat does suck and it's been wearing on me more this year too. To try to acclimate better I've been running in my gear on a treadmill out in the sweat box of a garage, and it kicks my butt.

Definitely up for a dinner and a visit. And lots to cool liquids.

[FOG]

I'm ready. Run course has changed from past events. Stages are mixed around now. It is sure to be a good test.

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[Default.mp3]

I will be wearing a bright blue short sleeve tech shirt with off-white pants on race day, so grab me if you see me.

[LOKNLOD]

I will be wearing a bright blue short sleeve tech shirt with off-white pants on race day, so grab me if you see me.

Have a safe trip up man! See you there.

Same for you other guys traveling. If anyone runs into trouble and there's anything a (more or less) local can do, ping me.

[littlejerry]

Well this sucks.

Unfortunately I have to miss this race. Something came up with family that requires my presence at home. Best of luck to all of you and stay safe out there.

I'll plan on being at the January race.

[LOKNLOD]

LJ - Sorry to hear that. I was looking forward to actually catching up with you this time. I hope the home front issues work out for the best.

[Default.mp3]

Whelp, that went exceedingly poorly. My shooting was... okay, I guess, managed to score top shooter on one of the pistol-oriented stages, but my rifle still needs work. Beyond that, my running was absolutely abysmal; I simply could not sweat, it seemed, despite pissing fairly clear multiple times throughout the course. I was hitting ~170 BPM for the majority of the course, and even after a ~56 minute rest period at one of the stations, my BPM was still ~110 (my resting heart rate is typically ~60).

It was good to see LOKNLOD and FOG again, just wished that I had performed better.

[LOKNLOD]

Hey man - now that I've seen the times, you tore it UP on the pistol stage. Nice work. That stage seemed to give everyone fits (self included). Way to make Pistol-forum proud :cool:

Good to see you, meet your buddy, and of course to see FOG too.

I ended up 16th out of 67 participants for the 5K -- 27th run rank, but 7th shoot rank.

A few post- run notes for posterity:

My gear worked out well, less gear related problems than last time. Belt rig was comfy and stable.

Heavy rifle is heavy (9.8 lb), but I was able to get it slung and secured a lot better and it didn't wear me out nearly as much as my shorty since I wasn't fighting with it the whole time.

Camelbak was a 70-oz, and I used most of it. Minus what I spilled when I knocked the bite valve off the end of the hose bailing out of the transport truck over to the start line, and accidentally drained down my front. At least I figured it out quickly.

I managed to lose my score card right out of the gate, and figured it out part way to the first shoot point, turned around, ran back to the start, and hunted for it. So I wasted some run time there. A guy found it and i got it back at stage 2, thankfully. The extra distance looking for it didn't help me any, but the psychological momentum kill was probably a worse result from the oops.

Shadowy, shady trees with varying light are hard to shoot in. Reddish orange painted targets also don't contrast as well as white ones. I had the foresight to wear lighter-tinted glasses (Vr28) due to the shade, but the reddish tint made the targets blend even worse.

I felt stupid because I missed the 300-yd target a couple times (barely high) before quickly pinging the 500yd target easily. D'oh. That was just dumb, I knew my zero and holds better than that.

My lungs must be made by HK -
I suck and they hate me. Fitness is still my weakest link, as the gap between my run and shoot scores can attest. My actual run time probably would have been 5-10 minutes shorter without the initial card-hunting tour, but still.

Carrying that box up the hill near the end is still my least favorite part. F- that thing. (I think it was a little lighter than in winter, but still).

I had tested a couple hotter/heavier loads for my pistol in hopes of avoiding the issues with plates not flipping that others had at the last run with 115gr cheap stuff, and settled for 124gr win NATO over some Remington 147s (what was available locally and relatively cheap) because it grouped better, but even with the hotter load I had trouble with the last pistol (hostage) target flipping. I had 3 partial activations before I gave up and switched to using my rifle and harsh language. Wasted quite a bit of time there. I should have just planned to immediate transition on the move to that target.

Lots to think about, lots to work on.

Overall, I did better than last time, so net improvement is good.


Also.... FOG, running two 8-mile "10k" back to back... I don't care if you didn't even carry a rifle, you're still a beast man.

[FOG]

Dang Default, you freaking smoked that pistol stage, top score of the weekend I believe! You looked spent by the time I saw you at stage 5.

LOKNLOD, awesome to see you again and yes, the ammo can hill is pretty daunting. I loved ROing that stage just to see how everybody approached it.

Personally, the 15 mile challenge was harder than I anticipated due to the sheer time it took to complete. All total, with reload time, wait time, 14 shooting stages and run time included, I was on the course for 6 hours with an average HR of 146 over that period. Fluid consumption was around 2.0L. We lost power at my house the night before so I wasn't able to eat much and the morning of the event I had two Kashi bars. The extra weight from the 308 bolt rifle and ammo made everything tougher. Shooting 170 rounds wore me out

At the 12 mile mark, the weight and lack of fuel and eloctrolytes had me laying on the side of the trail with dehabilitating cramps which I never get. The last 3 miles was beyond brutal and I had to walk alot of it which was dissapointing. when I finished, I was in bad, bad shape.

When I weighed myself 2 days later, the scale showed I was still down 10 full pounds and I looked like hell.

On my first run, my scorecard got destroyed in the waist deep creek crossing and the RO'S on the west stages didn't call in my wait time or scores like they should have but I wouldn't have won anyway.

But hey, on a positive note I did better than most on the pistol stage so I'm showing improvement on that front!

Hopefully Bratch, LJ and SLG can make it for the Jan event and we can all catch up.

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[Default.mp3]

You looked spent by the time I saw you at stage 5.Ha. I was pretty much spent since getting off the road the first time; I stopped and rested to try and get my heart rate below 140 at least 6 or 7 times. I remain infuriated that I never managed to break into a real sweat; at least a quarter of the 3 liters I carried went into just being poured on myself in a desperate attempt to cool down (I polished off the last of my water during the last half mile, after the last bonus station); I just did a solo hike through the Guadalupes last month, and was sweating just fine, so I don't know what happened here.

How did you get into the 20k? I'd like to try that out for the winter; it'd be a form of redemption, I guess, and wouldn't mind ROing. It'd also be a good measuring stick of my performance at that juncture, as I'm hoping to do the heavy Bataan Memorial Death March next year.

[FOG]

Sign ups for the January event start this Saturday.

[SLG]

I'm sorry I missed this one, sounds like a great (challenging) time.

[littlejerry]

Can't wait! If the 20k is available I think ill sign up for it.


Just did a GoRuck 2 weeks ago and I'm feeling ambitious.

[Default.mp3]

I figure trying a 20k would be a good indicator for my road to Bataan, so I'm asking about that. Signed for the heavy division on Bataan because I'm stubborn.

I also have a Kahles K16i on layaway with CS Tactical, wondering if I should pay it off in time before the Run 'n' Gun. Hrm.

[MDS]

Sign ups for the January event start this Saturday.

Excellent! I'm reorganizing a few things in my life, I haven't been shooting or doing much exercise for way too long, not to mention hanging out here at PF. I think I'll sign up for the 5K as a first timer. Is the signup still over at okrunngun.com?

[FOG]

Excellent! I'm reorganizing a few things in my life, I haven't been shooting or doing much exercise for way too long, not to mention hanging out here at PF. I think I'll sign up for the 5K as a first timer. Is the signup still over at okrunngun.com?

Good deal! If nothing else, the P-F crowd eats well afterwards ;)


Yes okrunngun.com is the sign up location.

[Default.mp3]

OK - I've been getting texts and emails about doing a 20K. We're going to open this up to 10 runners only, and you must sign up by 12/31/2016. If there are any 20K slots unfilled at that time, they will convert back to 5/10K tickets. Runners choosing the 20K option should A. be ready to run early; B. Do a realistic "gut-check" before signing up - this is hard.FYI, for you masochist's out there. I'm asking for clarification as to where to sign up, assuming it's going to also be Eventbrite. Also, note that there's only 90 slots total this year, so sign up quick.

[FOG]

Can't wait! If the 20k is available I think ill sign up for it.


Just did a GoRuck 2 weeks ago and I'm feeling ambitious.

Looks like you'll have a chance to do the double.

Which go ruck did you do? The Heavy really piques my interest.

[littlejerry]

Looks like you'll have a chance to do the double.

Which go ruck did you do? The Heavy really piques my interest.

I did the Tough Mogadishu Mile. It was awesome. I want to do a heavy next year, but I need to train a lot for it.

[FOG]

I did the Tough Mogadishu Mile. It was awesome. I want to do a heavy next year, but I need to train a lot for it.
No doubt, I'd have to put some muscle on to tackle it, my current training has left me too lean.

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[texasaggie2005]

Man, I wish that had been around when I was in the Corps.

This thread has sort of gotten me interested in this. I might have to try a match next year.

So, I've decided to get off my ass and try one of these. Has anybody run or heard of the WTF Biathlon in Waco, Tx (http://www.wtfbiathlon.com/)?

[Default.mp3]

So, I've decided to get off my ass and try one of these. Has anybody run or heard of the WTF Biathlon in Waco, Tx (http://www.wtfbiathlon.com/)?Ugh. My schedule doesn't work for me to do that one, and it's a Helluva lot closer. I really need to stay on top of keeping track of all these different events.

I've heard of it before, though I don't know much about it. They're a newer biathlon. That's the extent of my knowledge.

Also, this Pawnee sign-up is killing me. Still ain't open, was suppose to be available at 0900, and I assumed it was CST.

[texasaggie2005]

Ugh. My schedule doesn't work for me to do that one, and it's a Helluva lot closer. I really need to stay on top of keeping track of all these different events.

I've heard of it before, though I don't know much about it. They're a newer biathlon. That's the extent of my knowledge.

Also, this Pawnee sign-up is killing me. Still ain't open, was suppose to be available at 0900, and I assumed it was CST.
Yeah, I can't make next weekend's. But they have one in April '17 I think.

[Default.mp3]

Sign up for the Pawnee Run 'n' Gun is finally live, 2 hours later.

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/pawnee-winter-run-n-gun-2017-tickets-28512785509

[LOKNLOD]

I'm in. :cool:

[littlejerry]

Just registered for the 20k.

[MDS]

If for the 5K. One step at a time. :)

[LOKNLOD]

If for the 5K. One step at a time. :)

Awesome! Looking forward to finally meeting you, dude.

I'm just doing the 5K again too. When I run the whole 5k without walking, and/or place well enough to get the trophy, I'll give the 10k another try...

[FOG]

Just registered for the 20k.
Whew, that's a challenge, kudos for taking it on.

I'll say this just to put the suck factor in perspective... today I ran a 50k hilly trail race. It wasn't as hard as the "20k" (its actually 25k) run n gun in July.

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[littlejerry]

Whew, that's a challenge, kudos for taking it on.

I'll say this just to put the suck factor in perspective... today I ran a 50k hilly trail race. It wasn't as hard as the "20k" (its actually 25k) run n gun in July.

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Fortunately I'll be doing it in January so heat won't be an issue. GoRuck training got me used to carrying 50lbs on my back.

Worst case I'll do it at a ruck pace. My goal is to run the majority.

But I figure I may as well go big if I'm driving half way across the country for a race. Goals and challenges are good for the soul(and a little fear).

[TR675]

This weekend I ran in the "WTF Biathlon", WTF standing for "Waco Tactical Fitness," a charitable organization that supports local youth shooting clubs.

Summary: it was hard and I didn't like running it, but I will do it again.

There were two runs, a 10k on Saturday and a 5k "sprint" on Sunday. I did the 5k sprint, which was a smart choice. I trained for the sprint by running around my neighborhood in running clothes. This does not adequately prepare you for running on broken terrain carrying an extra 20 pounds of awkward stuff.

The terrain was rough, varying from gravel roads to mowed pastures on the easy side to broken rocks, inclined knobby limestone creek banks and the creek bed itself on the hard side. The sprint featured one pistol stage and five rifle stages; the 10k had an extra stage. The pistol stage involved shooting at orange targets hidden in shadowy woods. The rifle stages had targets ranging from tiny to large set up at varying distances, up to approx. 400 yards out. The ranges were not disclosed in advance. Shooting was from various positions, including from a tower, up in a tree, behind barricades, and from beside, underneath, and inside of a car. There were obstacles including an eight-foot inclined wall that most participants just took a 15 minute run-time penalty on. I did, and so did the four other guys I was running with. I gave it three good tries and said the hell with it - too hard after running 2.5 miles and wearing all my gear.

Gear: Most of the sprint participants were wearing some amount or other of multicam or other cool-dude wear. Lots of long sleeves and pants. I was happy with running shoes, cargo shorts and a t-shirt, because Gray Man, and also because it got hot fast. AR's and striker fired guns predominated. One guy ran the 10k with a 50 BMG - not kidding - and got pissed when they wouldn't let him shoot it at the steel targets.

A chest rig would have been great for this run but I didn't have one. I used an old Maxpedition backpack with a triple mag pouch inside and a single rifle mag pouch on the belt. This was not great for fast mag changes but I don't think I lost too much time because of it. I shot a G17 and a Colt 6920 with aftermarket hand guard, stock, etc. My optics were state of the art in 2008: an Aimpoint with 3x magnifier. Most guys had variable power optics, some high quality and some junk. I've had the 3x magnifier for years but have never actually used it before. I'm pretty comfortable with the 1x 2 MOA Aimpoint dot out to 2-300 yards, but the magnifier was helpful on the smaller and farther targets. I need more time behind a magnified optic to get comfortable with it. Despite my buddy making fun of my optics choice I was more or less competitive with guys using the high-speed variables.

Tips and tricks: Chest rigs and slinging the rifle across your back are the way to go here. My backpack interfered with slinging and unslinging my rifle; my buddy's chest rig did not. A variable powered optic is probably better than the 1x+magnifier, but using them I completed all stages, and a lot of guys with the variables did not. I ran early in the morning, which was good in that it was cooler, but bad in that there were basically no wait times when I arrived at the stages - I generally had to run straight through. Some of the guys who ran later had 15+ minute waits to rest a bit, but it was hotter then, so I count that as a wash.

Overall my combined run and shoot scores put me in the top third - not too bad for a basically untrained near-40 year old, I'll take it. This was a great gut-check and test of gear and general fitness, and if, like me, you've taken enough fantasy shooting classes to develop your skill set past the basics and want to test it out under more stressful conditions I'd recommend trying one of these runs out.

I will say this: I have a renewed appreciation for guys in LE and the military who do this kind of crap day in, day out in boot camp, training and on the job. The whole time I was running I was alternating between wishing I was dead and looking forward to my ex-Army buddy Eric telling me what a sissy I was for whining, which he did. The most impressive thing I saw was a former Marine dislocate his shoulder on an obstacle, get the dislocation reduced by a medic, and then finish the rifle stages and the run. Oorah? Dude's a badass in my book.

Photos and more info are at this link (http://www.wtfbiathlon.com/photos).

[FOG]

6 weeks out and I'm behind where I need to be. Short days, cold weather and hunting season seem to promote my winter hibernation mode.

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[littlejerry]

6 weeks out and I'm behind where I need to be. Short days, cold weather and hunting season seem to promote my winter hibernation mode.

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I'm right there with you. 3 weeks out and I'm trying to strategize my last few pre race workouts. 3rd week is taper so I really only have 2 solid weeks...

Wondering what the weather will be like. Also wondering how massively destroyed my body with be at the end of the 20k.

[SLG]

Good luck guys, I wish I was there to run it with you again.

[littlejerry]

Good luck guys, I wish I was there to run it with you again.

Not defending your title? Shame.

[SLG]

Not defending your title? Shame.

I wish I could. I think that boat sailed the last time I missed it though. I hope one of you guys wins it. Last time we had two PF's in the top 3, time to get all three slots!

[FOG]

We have decent odds. 3 out of the 10 entries in the Saturday 20k challenge are P-F members (you still in Default??).

Its sure been cold here lately. I did a 2 hour, 8 mile run n gun practice a few weeks ago, temperature was 13.

S, if you're not coming, text me how to get you paid for the HPG kit bag. Its a keeper. In fact, I'm going all 'grey man' for this event... running that kit bag and a Tara pack. No battle belt, chest rig, mag holders or even a holster. Its remarkably efficient.

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[Default.mp3]

We have decent odds. 3 out of the 10 entries in the Saturday 20k challenge are P-F members (you still in Default??).Yes. I am also totes out of shape. So we'll see how long I take. Still need to figure out which rifle I'm taking, too.

[littlejerry]

We have decent odds. 3 out of the 10 entries in the Saturday 20k challenge are P-F members (you still in Default??).

Its sure been cold here lately. I did a 2 hour, 8 mile run n gun practice a few weeks ago, temperature was 13.

S, if you're not coming, text me how to get you paid for the HPG kit bag. Its a keeper. In fact, I'm going all 'grey man' for this event... running that kit bag and a Tara pack. No battle belt, chest rig, mag holders or even a holster. Its remarkably efficient.

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Funny, I was considering running a Tara pack with a few BFG mag pouches on my belt. The Tara pack is nice and low profile when carrying a rifle on your back.

[SLG]

We have decent odds. 3 out of the 10 entries in the Saturday 20k challenge are P-F members (you still in Default??).

Its sure been cold here lately. I did a 2 hour, 8 mile run n gun practice a few weeks ago, temperature was 13.

S, if you're not coming, text me how to get you paid for the HPG kit bag. Its a keeper. In fact, I'm going all 'grey man' for this event... running that kit bag and a Tara pack. No battle belt, chest rig, mag holders or even a holster. Its remarkably efficient.

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For payment, I need pics of you running that setup. Can I send one to HPG after the race?

[LOKNLOD]

In lame gear queer fashion, I'm pretty well set on the shooting equipment, but am still underprepared physically. I'd like to spend more time with my rifle on some longer range targets but in the end the shooting really isn't the hard part.

The weather will be the wildcard. -3 last weekend, 65 today, ice storm next weekend... who knows what it might be.

[littlejerry]

In lame gear queer fashion, I'm pretty well set on the shooting equipment, but am still underprepared physically. I'd like to spend more time with my rifle on some longer range targets but in the end the shooting really isn't the hard part.

The weather will be the wildcard. -3 last weekend, 65 today, ice storm next weekend... who knows what it might be.

That's what I'm worried about. Being from GA, I have zero experience running in the snow.

Historically the shooting hasn't been difficult. Even when severely fatigued. Longest shot is 500 and its a full size silhouette. Probably most challenging thing has been the VTAC board.

I did see there is a bonus this year: 400 yards single shot. Don't recall the target size.

[LOKNLOD]

That's what I'm worried about. Being from GA, I have zero experience running in the snow.

Historically the shooting hasn't been difficult. Even when severely fatigued. Longest shot is 500 and its a full size silhouette. Probably most challenging thing has been the VTAC board.

I did see there is a bonus this year: 400 yards single shot. Don't recall the target size.

Agreed the VTac board is probably the toughest rifle stage - the combo of odd offsets at long(ish) distance plus most are using magnified optics, which can be trickier in odd positions with eye relief. The pistol stages alway give lots of people fits too.

[Bratch]

You guys running this weekend in the ice or next week?

Obviously I'm out.

[FOG]

It's the 28th.

Come on over and have a steak with us Saturday night.

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[Bratch]

It's the 28th.

Come on over and have a steak with us Saturday night.

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I'll see what I can do, several of my training buddies are in a cash prize invitational BJJ tournament that day. I need to be there for that but if we get done early I may be able to swing it. It text with LnL to see how it's going in Pawnee.

[FOG]

For payment, I need pics of you running that setup. Can I send one to HPG after the race?
I agree to those terms. [emoji4]

I'll try to take some at the actual match but in the meantime, here's a few showing the setup for both training and competition

PHYSICAL TRAINING:
Road and trail runs with plate carrier (less side plates), HPG recon harness, PPS 2 in snubby kit bag, small FAK in medium GP pouch, 2L Hydration bladder. 27# total. Distances range from 4 to 18 miles.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170117/74da95f335256beadf25763af3c0ce9b.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170117/3afff6d68bd0108eaeb2498adaaf9632.jpg

COMPETITION TRAINING:
Mock run and guns with slung rifle, original kit bag with 3 - 30 round mags and VP9, Tarahumara pack with 2L Hydration bladder, 2 pistol mags on belt Approx. 22# total. Distances range from 5 to 8 miles with multiple shooting stages
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170117/976fbf8cbdcf382c0ec397f49979abcc.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170117/fcb8ec1a249bb9663284d0b5eae7849c.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170117/deed14f2cd9a9d2c0874d8cfcb974ba9.jpg



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[Shootingrn]

That's a slick set up....

[SLG]

Looks good FOG! Good luck on the run!

[FOG]

Looks good FOG! Good luck on the run!
Thanks again, next time we cross paths I'll buy you a steak dinner.

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[SLG]

Thanks again, next time we cross paths I'll buy you a steak dinner.

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Ok, twist my arm. Seriously though, only if we get to do some pistol shooting as previously discussed.

[FOG]

I'll be there bright and early in the morning to RO for the RO'S who run on Friday.

Im camping out Friday night. Wife bailed on me, she doesn't like the cold. That means I get the 0 mummy bag I was going to let her use!

Be safe driving, see y'all soon.

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[LOKNLOD]

Good news is, it Looks like the weather is shaping up to be workable. Not as nice as last year, but not wet at least.

Bad news is it looks like I'm going to skip. Excuses are just that, but I've got a head/chest cold that kicked in this week and running around in the cold wind probably isn't going to help it. I've got to travel for work the next two weeks and really want to be well before I battle with airports and argumentative cooworkers on snowy wellpads.

I guess if anyone needs a last minute ticket, let me know?

[Default.mp3]

So, FOG manages to not just win the 20k run, but also did his first 10k fast enough to snag second place on it (the 20ks are timed as two separate 10ks, with the scored combined at the end).

Dude's a beast, yo.

[LOKNLOD]

So, FOG manages to not just win the 20k run, but also did his first 10k fast enough to snag second place on it (the 20ks are timed as two separate 10ks, with the scored combined at the end).

Dude's a beast, yo.

Wow!
Awesome work, FOG. Wish I was up there to buy him a steak!

[FOG]

So, FOG manages to not just win the 20k run, but also did his first 10k fast enough to snag second place on it (the 20ks are timed as two separate 10ks, with the scored combined at the end).

Dude's a beast, yo.
Humble bastard, you didn't even mention you won third in the 20k. [emoji4]

I'm celebrating with an IPA or three right now but will do a short AAR soon.

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[SLG]

Humble bastard, you didn't even mention you won third in the 20k. [emoji4]

I'm celebrating with an IPA or three right now but will do a short AAR soon.

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That's awesome FOG, congratulations! Default as well, strong showing all around.

Must be the HPG. :-)

[Bratch]

Congrats... Good work guys.

LoknLod it's your turn to represent P-F next winter.

[LOKNLOD]

No shit, I'm the only loser who hasn't won something.

Better get training for summer?

[Lester Polfus]

So, if in a fit of madness, I tried to get my busted up ass in shape for this, how handicapped would i be by a .308 bolt gun, that takes AICS mags, with a 1.5 to 6?

[Shootingrn]

Humble bastard, you didn't even mention you won third in the 20k. [emoji4]

I'm celebrating with an IPA or three right now but will do a short AAR soon.

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Awesome, I'm looking forward to the AAR. This type of challenge is infinitely more appealing than the obstacle racing to me.

[littlejerry]

No shit, I'm the only loser who hasn't won something.

Better get training for summer?

I haven't won anything but humility and I've done 3 so far.

Ran the 20k. Finished it, came in 11th. 20k ended up being 14.9 miles. It was hard.

I'm gonna train up so I don't completely suck and run the 20k again in the summer.

FOG is a beast and an inspiration. He's come a long way since I first shot/ran with him in the summer of 2015.

[Default.mp3]

Scores are up: http://www.okrunngun.com/scores

[littlejerry]

Ah, I misread the printout I got at the race. Looks like I came in 6th overall for the 20k. My individual times were 11th and 10th.

[FOG]

So, if in a fit of madness, I tried to get my busted up ass in shape for this, how handicapped would i be by a .308 bolt gun, that takes AICS mags, with a 1.5 to 6?

I ran the 20k with a Ruger GSR with no optics last summer. My buddy ran a Mossberg MVP with scout scope this winter. It's definitely a handicap but it has been done. Tough to compete with semis but it's gratifying nonetheless.

Come to think of it another buddy actually won it a few years ago with a high dollar surgeon bolt gun. He made it all the way to the end before he missed his first target.

[FOG]

2017 Oklahoma Run n Gun Biathlon
Pawnee, OK
28 Jan 2017

Here's a few observations from the weekend:

Conditions
Morning temperatures were in the 30's, afternoon temps reached 50. Wind picked up to around 20 mph by late morning. Good running weather.

Run
One loop was 7.4 miles making the '20k' nearly 15 miles. Course was set up nice with a mixture of woods, hills, pasture and gravel road. 20k Participants were allowed 12 minutes between loops to reload ammo, water, etc. My training consisted of long (14-18 miles) runs with a plate carrier therefore The run portion was relatively easy. The goal was to start slow and finish strong with no walking except at creek crossings-- Goal achieved. I ran the 2nd loop 4 min faster than the first.

Shooting
7 stages per loop consisting of pistol and rifle targets from unorthodox positions at ranges of 10 - 500 yards with frequent movement required between targets. RO's preached muzzle awareness at all times. I trained on 8" steel so the 12"x18" rifle targets appeared big to me. Hits weren't that difficult to achieve so time became the governing factor making transitions critical. I was pleased with my shooting and experienced no magazine bobbles or malfunctions.

Equipment
Rifle - custom built AR15 from BP Outfitters in Tulsa, OK. It has extremely low recoil making follow up shots very quick.

Pistol - stock VP9. Not much to say, Both rifle and pistol performed flawlessly

Sling - SKD PIG SMS 3 point sling (designed by none other than Mr. SLG). Sling made a huge difference in stability at unsupported positions. SLG used the same design last year when he won it. Little Jerry also used this sling. Interesting to note, my QD nearest the muzzle got dirt in it and pulled out while I was running with rifle slung on my back. If it hadn't of been for the additinal attachment point on the hand guard, I'd dumped the rifle.

Pack - HPG kit bag and tarahumara pack. Awesome. Made access to mags fast and easy to do on the run. Used a maxpedtion sneaky holster sleeve inside bag for the pistol. I carried pistol mags in two safaraland mag holsters.

Rank - each 10k loop was scored as a separate 10k score then combined to determine 20k placing. My first round earned me 4th in the 10k and my second run earned me 2nd in the 10k. I was 1st overall in the 20k. There was 78 entrants in the 10k and 32 in the 20k.

Praise the Lord, it was a Very blessed weekend.

[SLG]

FOG,

I'm thrilled that you did as well as you did, and that the sling was a benefit. A 20K is no joke to run and shoot well. How was the pistol portion this year?

As far as push button qd swivels, they are definitely not all made equal. Do you know which you used? I've had good luck with Troy, as well as some others.

The way the push button swivels are, those little ball bearings don't have a lot of room for stuff to get in there before they won't work well. In addition, the human error on those things is pretty high.
Even with good ones, I have always been a bit leary of them, and prefer to mount the sling a little differently when I can. The rear gets direct threaded to the stock. The front will often get a BFG wire loop attachment. Sometimes the front gets a clip, whose name escapes me at the moment. The middle usually gets a qd.

Congratulations again!

[littlejerry]

January 2017 AAR and look back

I just completed the 2017 Winter Run'N'Gun 20k challenge. Overall the physical challenge was greater than I expected. Final distance ended up being 14.9 miles according to my GPS. Before I get into details I want to take a look back at how I got into this and the early feedback I received.

Where I started:
When I started this thread in March of 2015 I had no idea what I was getting into. To put it plainly, I didn't know what I didn't know. My original motivation for doing the Run'n'Gun was age related – 30 years was on the horizon(go ahead and laugh) and I wanted to do something to combat this nagging voice in the back of my head which was saying I had pissed away any opportunity of being fit in my 20's. My goal was to avoid having regrets 10 years from now over what I might have been able to do in my 30's.

I naively thought:
- I was a "decent" runner
- I was in moderate shape
- The Garand was a suitable biathlon rifle
- I knew how to train
- All I needed was the "right gear"
I just re-read this entire thread and wanted to reflect on some things I had lost sight of:

Shortly after starting the OP I was surprised by the level of feedback. Lots and lots of free wisdom came my way. Re-reading it now I realize that there are nuggets of truth and wisdom laced throughout the thread and I ignored most of it to my own detriment. Regarding gear, the HPG Tara/Kit bag was one of the first things people mentioned and it's what I'm switching to for next summer. FOG already proved it's viability this race by using it and winning the 20k.

I'm also surprised by the number of things which I now consider to be fundamentals of training but forgot originally came from PF:
- Use sand for weight
- Use extreme caution when running with weight
- Incorporate rucking into weekly routine
- Reference SF ruck standards

SLG provided a huge amount valuable guidance. As I'm re-reading this thread I keep seeing things that he mentioned which I stupidly decided to learn the hard way. He also raised a red flag when I detailed my completely misguided perception of fitness and pacing before the first race. Again, PF wisdom was right and I nearly stroked out at the race. My early failure is captured in all it's glory on post #93.

All of this is a long-winded way of saying: holy shit guys, you were right. Thank you for all of your suggestions and tips. SLG especially – thank you for attempting to point me in the right direction.


Where I'm at Today:
The 20k race was hard, go figure. 15 miles of running wears on you, especially when carrying gear.

20k Training:
My prep for the race was a combination of bodyweight workouts (squats, pushups, pullups, planks, lunges), long slow runs(6-12 miles), sprints, and rucking (45lb pack, 3-15 miles). Some weeks were good with 5 workouts, other weeks were bad with only 2.

My biggest regret is not having spent more time doing the long slow runs. I had only worked up to 12 miles before the race, and only used weight while rucking or on very short runs(>3 miles). I don't think that running with weight is entirely necessary, but it is necessary to actually do the mileage and keep your HR up for hours at a time. I had some good long rucks in there, but my running didn't quite creep up to the 15 mile distance.

20k Shooting:

There were 7 stages for each 7.5 mile run. We were given 12 minutes after the first run to resupply water, mags, ammo, etc.My shooting hasn't changed much since I started running these events. I've done a bit more medium-range rifle stuff(600 yards), but I've definitely been shooting USPSA less and my pistol speed/accuracy has fallen behind a bit. I don't have my actual round counts from the runs (lost track of mags between runs) but I'm estimating low 50's for rifle and ~25 pistol for each run. There were 16 runners with 2 scores for each run, so last place was 32.

The stages:

10K ONLY Bonus I – Zombie Killer: Shooter must advance through the woods through several different firing points and get two hits each with rifle*on five 8" steel targets,*at varying distances from 25-75 yards.*(10 rifle)

This stage was straightforward. I got screwed on my first run. After I finished the RO proclaimed "That was a fast run.... aww shit! The timer died!" He asked if I wanted a re-shoot or for him to guess what my time was. I opted not to re-shoot because it was the first stage and I didn't know how the rest of the race would go ammo-wise.

Run 1: 0.92 minutes, 20k Rank: 20 ; 10k Rank: 50
Run 2: 0.58 minutes, 20k Rank: 3 ; 10 Rank: 8


Stage 1 – Advance With a Pistol: Shooter must advance through the woods to 3 different firing points, getting two hits on a 12" pistol target distances from 5-15 yards at each, then advance to the final position and flip 6 targets on a dueling tree from approximately 10 yards. (12 pistol)

Another straightforward stage. I resisted the urge to try and burn it down because I was focused on endurance and consistency for the event.

Run 1: 0.40 minutes, 20k Rank: 5 ; 10k Rank: 6
Run 2: 0.47 minutes, 20k Rank: 9 ; 10k Rank: 12


Stage 2 – Fast and Hard: Shooter will engage a plate rack with six 6" plates*from approximately 30 yards from behind a barricade, knocking down each*plate*through a different*hole in the barricade. *(6 rifle)

My first run on this stage was a little challenging; the plate rack was not designed for rifle rounds(especially not 308!) at 30 yards. The plates were tilted forward ~45 degrees greatly reducing the size of the target. I dropped a few rounds here...

Run 1: 0.75 minutes, 20k Rank: 7 ; 10k Rank: 11
Run 2: 0.58 minutes, 20k Rank: 5 ; 10k Rank: 9


Stage 3 – Rifleman’s Quarter Mile: Shooter must get two hits each on targets at 200 yds*and 500 yds. Size of targets is approximately 18"x30". (4rifle)

200 yards was a breeze. I was surprised to not hit the 500 yard plate on the first shot as I had just zeroed my rifle the weekend before at 600 yards. I had to aim low and left off the target to get hits. I got lucky and saw a splash off the top of the berm and quickly figured out where to aim. On my second run there was still a little guess work but I didn't waste much time. Maybe it's time for a more robust scope?

Run 1: 1.00 minutes, 20k Rank: 20 ; 10k Rank: 36
Run 2: 0.65 minutes, 20k Rank: 8 ; 10k Rank: 16


Stage 4 – War of the Rats Re-Visited:**Shooter must get two hits on a 12"x20"*target at 150-200 yds from rooftop, move inside and get two hits on the same target through louvers that will require a standing/kneeling position, drop down and get two more from the lowest point on the structure that will require a prone position. (6 rifle)
​
This stage was awesome! Climb onto a roof, hit a target, jump off, hit a target through louvers, reposition to a prone porthole and hit it again. Anyone young with good knees had an advantage here. I took the approach of jumping off the roof while others would climb back down the way they got up.

Run 1: 0.60 minutes, 20k Rank: 5 ; 10k Rank: 6
Run 2: 0.63 minutes, 20k Rank: 7 ; 10k Rank: 8


Stage 5 – Get Home Safe: Shooter must start this stage with his rifle placed on the ground at a designated firing position. On the "fire" command,*shooter must draw his pistol and*hit*two 12"*pistol targets twice each from approximately 10 yards,*holster*pistol, move to his rifle,*and engage a 12"x20" target twice with rifle at approximately 150 yds.* (4 pistol, 2 rifle)

***** At the end of this stage, shooter may take 400 yard bonus shot – 30 seconds to engage an approximately 18"x30"*steel target approximately 400 yds away. 30 seconds, only one round may be fired. *A hit or miss will NOT affect your score. *However,*those who make a hit*will get acknowledged with*a bonus at the end of the day. *****

On my first run I stupidly forgot to top off the pistol before arriving. I ran dry and had to run a painfully slow emergency reload from a closed top pouch... you coulda made popcorn while I fumbled through it. I did manage to hit the 400 yard target on both runs. There was a stiff ~15 mph wind directly crossing the line of sight. A lot of people missed this.

Run 1: 0.45 minutes, 20k Rank: 12 ; 10k Rank: 27
Run 2: 0.43 minutes, 20k Rank: 11 ; 10k Rank: 21
​

10K ONLY Bonus II*– Ammo Can Bonus Drill: Shooter must move two ammo cans to first line, engage two 12" pistol targets with*two hits each, holster*pistol, carry ammo cans to rifle line, and*engage a 12"x20"*target at approximately 150 yards from behind available*cover with*two*hits. (4 pistol, 2 rifle)

I don't know what happened to me on the first run. I missed probably 5 rounds before I finally hit the damn target. On the second run I was too exhausted to care and reverted back to fundamentals... and rocked it. Being the last stage after 14 miles of running I don't know why.

Run 1: 1.00 minutes, 20k Rank: 14 ; 10k Rank: 29
Run 2: 0.77 minutes, 20k Rank: 2 ; 10k Rank: 8


Overall shoot score:
Run 1:
20K - 10th place ..... 10k - 17th place
20K - 2nd place ..... 10k - 4th place

I'd say my shooting was mixed. First run sucked, second run was solid. I could have and should have done better. A better first run shoot score would have bumped me up to 4th or 5th place overall in the 20k.

20k running:
15 miles is long. The longest training run I've ever done is only 12.5 miles. The weather was merciful at this race- when I left in the AM it was ~35 degrees F and in the afternoon it was mid 40's. This was huge for me being able to finish.

I followed FOG's advice and took a slow pace early on that I thought I could maintain. Turns out the pace was right because my 2nd run was only 4.5 minutes slower than the first.

I ran solid the first 9 miles. At mile 9 I started getting muscle cramps... the first cramp was in my calf. By mile 11 I was getting major cramps in my upper legs. The cramps got significantly worse when I stopped to walk, so I attmpted to keep running instead. At this point though my heart rate was jacked. Anytime I was running my HR was hovering around 180-185 and would drop down to 160 when I was walking. The last 4 miles were really challenging trying to deal with my out of control HR and leg cramps. I took my remaining salt tabs and pressed on.

My HR was higher than I expected for the event. I spent most of the time with it over 166(2.5 hours). This is higher than normal for me. Perhaps I just wasn't at 100% this weekend?

My final ranking was 6th place in the 20k. My 10k combined scores earned 14th and 21st against the 10k runners.

Closing Thoughts
I owe a severely belated thank you to everyone who tried to guide me in the right direction. If any of you(SLG?) make it out to a future race I hope I can buy you a beer, assuming you drink the stuff.

This race has been an incredible motivator in my life. I've lost a good 30lbs of body fat since starting training in 2015. It sounds cheesy but I was desperately in need of a goal to keep me focused. I'm incredibly grateful that the crew in OK have managed to put on this event year after year. I hope they can continue to host; I'll continue to drive out from GA for as long as they do.

I've come a long way but I've still only scratched the surface. Guys like FOG and SLG are good at setting the bar high. I got stomped in the running portion of the race. I don't know how I'm going to get there, or if it's even possible, but I'm going to try and get there in the next few years.

My next goal is to run the 20k in the Summer and finish strong. I have no idea what that means... depending on who shows up, maybe it's top 3. If the summer race were today I think I'm on the hairy edge of being able to just finish. We'll see what kind of hurdles I can cross in 5 months.

[SLG]

LJ,

Total props to you for not only starting this back then, but continuing to do it and improving every time! This type of competition says a lot about you compared to any of the normal shooting competitions, and it takes a highly motivated person to do it. As far as learning things the hard way...all of us have done that. As long as you live through it, it's the best teacher there is. I was lucky to be taught many of these things before I had to do them, but I didn't really know them until I had done it. You now know them, and are unlikely to forget. Lame as it sounds, some of my fondest memories are of long mileage days, humping rucks and rifles.

I really hope to make it back to another event in OK, but my current deployment schedule just sucks. I'm typing this in a hotel room now...wishing I was at the race last weekend.

Congrats on sticking with it. Win lose or draw, you have nothing to be ashamed of, and now you know you can do it and get better at it. No regrets there.

[FOG]

LJ, nice write-up! I'm not that knowledgeable compared to real distance runners but I'd be willing to help you prepare for the summer since I'll be training for it too. Kind of a 2-way accountability type of deal.

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[Shootingrn]

Thanks for the write up guys and it s really great to read about this type of stuff and how it positively impacts people. I'd really like to try try a race soon. I know where I'll go to get ready thanks to everyone's input.

[littlejerry]

SLG- thanks for the kind words. And right there with you on fond memories of long days with a rifle in the woods.

Hope you can make it out and wipe the floor with us. How you feel about a 20k?


FOG- that would be awesome. I'd love to pick your brain on how you are prepping and what your routine is. This week I've been sleeping a ton. My body was way more tired than I initially thought. Next week I plan to ease back into things.

[LOKNLOD]

Good write-ups guys. Ya'll are making me regret missing. The upside is I was well enough for my trip this week, which was important. The bad news is my wife and youngest are at home with the flu (wife) and pneumonia (Daughter) and I'm stuck her in Ohio. :/ almost would have been better had I been too sick to leave.

FOG, et al, I would be interested too in seeing what the training program looks like. I need to get off my butt and do the work.

[bravo7]

Perhaps I'm super late to the party, but other than Pecos Run n Gun I am clueless on any others. I tried to skim through the thread, but maybe I missed it.......is there a resource out there that lists these type of competitions for the year?

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[FOG]

LNL, think about it and decide if you're doing the 5k or 10k or even 20k (yes, you could potentially do that if you had enough time in the week to train ) and I'll share some training options with you. I'm helping 2 other buddies prepare for the 10k.

LJ, take a week or two off to recover mentally and physically and I'll pm or text you some info.

SLG, I have a troy QD on my Colt but I bought a cheap one this go round, definately not the same. I checked out the BFG wire loop and that looks much better. I don't remove slings often anyway so a QD isn't necessary. It would be awesome if you could make it in July, just tell the bad guys to cool it for the weekend of July 22 [emoji6]

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[FOG]

Perhaps I'm super late to the party, but other than Pecos Run n Gun I am clueless on any others. I tried to skim through the thread, but maybe I missed it.......is there a resource out there that lists these type of competitions for the year?

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
The best source right now is https://okfao.vbulletin.net/. We're ate up with biathlons over there and info on new events is always shared.

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[bravo7]

Thank you, Sir. Greatly appreciated.

[Shootingrn]

The one I was eyeing is in Kentucky, Rock Castle Run and Gun and another in Michigan but the name escapes me right now.

[BobM]

I've been looking for a similar event closer to home (SW OH). Rock castle is only about 4 hours away but I've got a prior commitment that weekend

[MRW]

Appreciate the AAR's from everyone that ran this. Thanks to LJ for starting this thread back in 2015. I didn't even know these races existed until I saw this.

I was going to target the June race this year but I have a work commitment. If finances and work schedule sort out, I want to try for the January, 2018 race. It gives me almost a year for training and gear acquisition.

Based on all of the recommendations, I'll go for the HPG Kit Bag/Tarahumara combination. I already have a Kit Bag so the pack is the next logical step.

For the rifle, I currently have irons but am looking at picking up a LPV for my 6920. Does anyone who has done this have an recommendations? Going to plan on a G17 for the pistol stage.

I've got a few half marathons under my belt with the next coming up in May. I also have trail ultra-marathon relay in October. I'm going to start adding weight to my training runs after the half in May.

My big question is footwear. I use different style shoes for road running vs. trail running. With the added weight of rifle, pistol, ammo, etc, does it make more sense to look at a light weight boot or should I stick with sneaks?

[FOG]

I use a vortex strike eagle 1-6, for the $$ it's a good run n gun optic. LJ uses a vortex viper I believe.

I ran the summer event in Brooks Cascadia then GRADUALLY made the switch to zero drop shoes (i.e., Altra). I now own 3 pair. Lone Peak 3.0 are what I used in January. Much more comfortable than the Kenetrek mid Bridger hiking shoes used to run in.



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[Default.mp3]

My big question is footwear. I use different style shoes for road running vs. trail running. With the added weight of rifle, pistol, ammo, etc, does it make more sense to look at a light weight boot or should I stick with sneaks?I ran my first two with a pair of Salomon XA Pro 3D Ultra 2 GTX. Ran this last one with a pair of Salomon S-Lab Sense 5 Ultra. I carried my rifle in a rear sweep position using an SOB Bitch Sling, and everything else was mounted to my The Wilderness Instructor Belt (RCS Phantom with H&K P30LS with RMR, X400U, and +5 extention, extra pistol mag with +5 extention, and 3 loaded rifle mags). Pretty minimal set-up, and the Sense 5 Ultra was just fine. For context, my current road shoes are Newton Gravity IVs and Salomon S-Lab Sonics.

While my rifle shooting was pretty weak for the most part, I attribute it to lack of practice; I did not do any rifle shooting beyond zeroing my new rifle since the last run 'n' gun, so that put me about 6 months of not practicing my holdovers. However, I was able to do much better the second time through compared to my first run, utilizing just an Aimpoint T-2 and EOTech G33 3x magnifier, as I had figured out my holds (I cleared the 2 shots at 300, 2 shots at 500 stage in 42 seconds with a suppressed 11.5" gun on my second run through, so it's perfectly doable with lower magnification, and probably even with no mag, given the size of the target).

[littlejerry]

My first race I ran 20" irons. A bad zero caused me to DQ the 500 yard stage. Other than that I felt fine using the irons. I may actually use them again for old times sake. I now run a Viper PST 1-4. It's been fun to dabble with. I don't have 100% confidence in its durability but I've enjoyed playing with the turrets and dialing for hits.

For shoes I've been using these for the past year:
http://store.nike.com/us/en_us/pd/air-zoom-terra-kiger-3-mens-running-shoe/pid-11047121/pgid-10294334

I really like the 4mm drop for longer runs and the extra cushion for trails. The tread is pretty aggressive but hasn't caused any issues on the road and has also been surprisingly durable on asphalt. For short stuff and sprints I usually use Merrell Trail Gloves.

[FOG]

Through a strange turn of events, I am now going to the Rock Castle Run n Gun in Park City, KY next weekend. By chance, will there be any P-F members in attendance?

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[littlejerry]

Through a strange turn of events, I am now going to the Rock Castle Run n Gun in Park City, KY next weekend. By chance, will there be any P-F members in attendance?

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Ah man, I was wanting to go but I've got a business trip interfering. Let me know how it turns out- it's a much shorter drive for me than Pawnee.

Training update:
I joined a local CrossFit gym. 3 weeks in now. I'm crazy weak compared to everyone, but I do well on the days we run.

I've been doing 1 long run and 1 ruck per week with CrossFit. My runs are staring to "feel" better(hills don't seem as hard, easier to keep my HR low), but I don't have a good way to quantify any improvement. I'm going to start tracking my times on specific trails. I've been really erratic in where I run, and even when I go to the same park I've been using different routes.

March is the month of strength training. I'm gonna ratchet up the mileage in April.

[MRW]

I'd be interested in hearing about the KY event. If it was good, it's a shorter trip for me than most of the others I've seen and I'll have to get it on my calendar for next year.

Thanks for the shoe ideas. I just switched from Brooks Ghosts to ASICS GT2000's for road running.

I'm going to stick with road running with distance work to get ready for the Half in May. Once that is done, I'm going to move a mix of trail work and road running to start to get ready for a trail ultra-marathon in October and the event in January. I plan on mixing in carrying some weight in a pack for the trail running. Planning on using Brooks Cascades at first. I've used them for trail running in the past and liked them.

What has the approximate total weight been for the gear you guys have been carrying for these competitions?

[SLG]

I used XA Pros the time I went, and have had lots of luck with them over the years. Just fine for the weight and trail.

Like FOG though, I have been wearing Altra's (the ame ones he has) for about 9 months now, and really like them. I have never run them with weight though, and would have to verify they work for me first. For normal running, they are awesome.

I really hope to make another race, and highly encourage anyone to give it a try. Lots of fun.

[littlejerry]

I'd be interested in hearing about the KY event. If it was good, it's a shorter trip for me than most of the others I've seen and I'll have to get it on my calendar for next year.

Thanks for the shoe ideas. I just switched from Brooks Ghosts to ASICS GT2000's for road running.

I'm going to stick with road running with distance work to get ready for the Half in May. Once that is done, I'm going to move a mix of trail work and road running to start to get ready for a trail ultra-marathon in October and the event in January. I plan on mixing in carrying some weight in a pack for the trail running. Planning on using Brooks Cascades at first. I've used them for trail running in the past and liked them.

What has the approximate total weight been for the gear you guys have been carrying for these competitions?

Total weight for me has been 23-25 lbs. That's loaded mags, pack, pouches, rifle, sling, pistol, holster, water. I hope to shave some weight for the summer by changing pouches and pack, but I'll add more in with a new optic and extra water.

Be very, very careful running with weight. Not knowing your background, I'd recommend rucking with weight first. 20-30 lbs doesn't sound like a lot but when your body isn't used to it, it changes everything.

When I started training I was running a lot and assumed that meant I was fit. Wrong. My body was selectively fit... Certain muscle groups were great, others not. I was conditioned to run long distances at a moderate pace. Anything outside of that narrow scope destroyed me.

I'm still liking my Terra Kiegers. Perfect fit for me, but I've always felt like my feet were an oddball shape and most shoes didn't fit well.

[LOKNLOD]

I wore a well-used set of Merrell Moab Ventilator Mids for both runs link (https://www.amazon.com/Merrell-Moab-Ventilator-Mid-Hiking/dp/B00D7CHBFU)

They were not the weak point.

[MRW]

Be very, very careful running with weight. Not knowing your background, I'd recommend rucking with weight first. 20-30 lbs doesn't sound like a lot but when your body isn't used to it, it changes everything.

When I started training I was running a lot and assumed that meant I was fit. Wrong. My body was selectively fit... Certain muscle groups were great, others not. I was conditioned to run long distances at a moderate pace. Anything outside of that narrow scope destroyed me.

I'll definitely take that advice. I'm planning on starting by hiking with weight which I'll increase over time. I'll move to running as I progress and get comfortable with it.

[FOG]

If you're training for an ultra, thats perfect. You'll have the needed endurance for whatever distance you choose to enter. That's also my preferred method of training.

I carry 8-10 # of gear (pistol, water, FAK, etc.) on 95% of my runs year round so when I transition to my rng training, it's not a huge shock to my system.

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[Eric_F]

Anybody in the upper Midwest interested in this sort longer distance running with shooting should check out the Hawkeye Ignite Winter Trekker (https://practiscore.com/index.php/winter-trekker-reboot/register).

It's next Sunday in Forest Lake, MN, with pistol and rifle, and from previous years (https://medium.com/@tamaudio/hawkeye-ignite-winter-trekker-2015-5acf96de0c9#.bub3gn25g) it sounds like about a 0.75-mile loop with a few stages. More loops you can do get more points, so it could work no matter what emphasis you want to place on running or accuracy. Match fee is only $30 and it's finally getting nice here in MN.

[Default.mp3]

The summer OK Run 'n' Gun sign ups open on 2017-04-04 0900 CST.

Only ten 20K slots open this time, and they have a weird requirement that's gonna keep me from competing in it:

Additionally, all 20K runners will be required to complete first loop with centerfire rifle of their choice, however second loop must be iron-sighted bolt rifle. (mil-surp rifles are highly encouraged)

[LOKNLOD]

Which weekend is the run?

[Default.mp3]

Which weekend is the run?
The email didn't say.

[FOG]

22 July.

Last summer we had to run both legs of the double with an iron sighted .30 rifle. I used a Scout rifle so I'm fine with the deal, although I'd like to be able to utilize a scope.

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[littlejerry]

The summer OK Run 'n' Gun sign ups open on 2017-04-04 0900 CST.

Only ten 20K slots open this time, and they have a weird requirement that's gonna keep me from competing in it:

Yeah, that definitely is a bummer. My only centerfire bolt action is a M39 in 7.62x54r.

It's accurate enough... But not all that fast. And it weighs a ton. I already psyched myself up for the 20k, so I'm going to do it. But it's going to suck. Hard.

They don't call it the full retard challenge for nothing...

[LOKNLOD]

22 July.



:(

I'm going to be traveling.

[littlejerry]

So are there any bolt action rifles cha here's in 308 or 223 with good adjustable sights? Is there a straight stock bolt rifle that will take AR sights?

[FOG]

I'm partial to my Ruger GSR. The irons are usable for this type of match. I was shooting very accurately with it last summer then a week before the event, I switched back to match grade ammo and never got a good zero established (windy week). Lesson learned.

FWIW, I'm catching crap from the other guys who are using Mil Surp rifles. Don't quote me, but one is using a K98 and another a K31. My nomenclature could be off.

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[FOG]

Here's a quick summary of the inaugural 3G4V (3 Gun 4 Vets) Rockcastle Run n Gun held last weekend near Park City, KY.

First, the facilities were outstanding. Rockcastle is a 2000 acre shooting resort that holds a multitude of shooting events. They have a large lodge/ hotel with full restaurant and bar.

Stage setup was good, run course was short but challenging with lots hills. It rained hard on Friday when we (RO's) ran. That made things tough. At my stage, i saw two glocks full of mud that just completely failed to fire. These happened to be carried by some SF guys that were "special guests" from Fort Cambell. Cool to see them try frantically to work thru the problems but to no avail. Besides that, scopes and safety glasses were fogging up and the rain made the rifle targets hard to see.

Highlight to me was ROing the cave stage. It was a long and narrow cave with 10 USPSA targets set up with layers of conveyor belt material as a backstop. Interesting to watch the guys that had shot in there before. They'd run the 140 yard distance at near full speed and shoot the targets from 2-3 yards away, often times, SHO. Those that didn't know what to expect were tentative and engaged the targets when they first saw them, sometimes 10 yards out. I ran it again at the end of the match and cut my time nearly in half!

Saturday was muddy but the sun was out and it was a beautiful day. The competitors were good natured and safe. Many 3 gunners were there (evidently there's alot of 3 gun competitions at Rockcastle), complete with the fancy jerseys. Not surprisingly, they shot very well.

They had a special "mule" award given to the competitor who carried the most weight in relation to his bodyweight. Wow, the dude that won weighed 230# and carried 140# of gear!! He was hating life but did indeed finish.

The match director is a stand up guy that has attended the OK event several times. He put on a very smooth match. The sponsors gave away a TON of prizes that took up an entire room in the lodge. I doubt anyone walked away without something. I left with an autographed copy of a " 13 Hours" dvd, a Voodoo Rhino range bag, Oakley Tombstone shooting glasses and some knife sharpeners!

I ended up 16th out of 81 which was dissapointing. Shooting and running was good but I badly fumbled two reloads, of all things, that cost me alot of time. Regardless, it was a great event. Due to the fact that sold out in 30 minutes I'm sure they'll have more RNGs there and, Lord willing, I'd like to return.

Here's a few cave pics

15089
15090







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[littlejerry]

I'm partial to my Ruger GSR. The irons are usable for this type of match. I was shooting very accurately with it last summer then a week before the event, I switched back to match grade ammo and never got a good zero established (windy week). Lesson learned.

FWIW, I'm catching crap from the other guys who are using Mil Surp rifles. Don't quote me, but one is using a K98 and another a K31. My nomenclature could be off.

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How do you adjust for elevation on the 500? Or are you just holding over?

[FOG]

Holdover based on 200 yard zero. Not ideal but it works for the large 500 yard target

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[JAD]

I'm partial to my Ruger GSR. The irons are usable for this type of match. I was shooting very accurately with it last summer then a week before the event, I switched back to match grade ammo and never got a good zero established (windy week). Lesson learned.

FWIW, I'm catching crap from the other guys who are using Mil Surp rifles. Don't quote me, but one is using a K98 and another a K31. My nomenclature could be off.

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Anyone who'd like to borrow my K31 and plenty of ammo, let me know. I have one scouterized but one is still original. It's heavy but it's fast and hits hard. I will be driving through OK from Dallas to KC several times this spring and can go through OKC or Tulsa and drop it off.

I'm changing jobs and can't put time into training or I'd do the 20k.

[Eric_F]

I ran the Winter/Spring Trekker put on by Hawkeye Ignite last weekend in Forest Lake, MN, and it was a blast. The format was a 2 hour time period to run a 1.5 mile course and shoot at four stages each lap, two rifle and two pistol. Stages were 15 second par times, with pistol shots at 15 - 20 yards and rifle at 50-250 yds, all on steel. First lap was 25 pts per target, then 15, then 10 on the third lap, but then increasing by 5 pts each lap after that. I'm not a great shot but I can run pretty well, so that's what I optimized for.

I loaded up my pack with everything you see here, minus two rifle mags I took out at the last minute. Carried 200 rifle and 250 pistol rounds, but shot only about half of that (103 rifle and 139 pistol). http://i.imgur.com/Vbkw2QR.jpg

I mounted the rifle by slipping the handguards through a strap on the bottom of the pack and attached to a QD swivel on the top. Lots of people ran slings, put in an Eberlestock pack, or actually just carried rifles, but this was fast for me and left both hands free. It worked great and I would do it again but just tie down the top strap so it wouldn't loosen as easily.
http://i.imgur.com/aMWVISY.jpg

Lots of people ran with USPSA style holsters empty and just threw the pistol into their pack between stages. Some I think ran with retention holsters the whole time. I was the weirdo carrying AIWB. I used my CCC Gestalt for my P30 LEM, with an RCS Claw I added. I planned to just throw that all in my pack if it got too uncomfortable, but that never happened. I ended up doing 4.25 laps, so about 6.4 miles and it was comfortable and really fast. I did end up with a light bruise on my stomach the next day but I didn't notice anything during the run. It certainly helped that my pack is small on me so the hip strap was well above my hips, and that I'm a pretty thin guy.

This is the only picture I got of the stages. This was the long range rifle stage, with B/C steel targets, 3 at 50 yds, 2 at 150, and one at 250. Being a super novice on the rifle, I was quite proud of hitting all six targets in the 15 sec limit on two of the laps.
http://i.imgur.com/RBUK4g0.jpg

As I said, I'm not the greatest shooter but running was my strength here, so among the 29 people I managed to tie for second most stages and get into the top half of points, which is more than I expected. I'm definitely running the Summer Trekker this June.

[littlejerry]

Summer registration is open. I'm signed up for the 20k.

[FOG]

My wife got signed up for the 10k and I'm in the 20k

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[littlejerry]

My wife got signed up for the 10k and I'm in the 20k

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That's the most badass thing I've heard all week. Although I have to say that if my wife was running it I'd try and run with her. Just means running slower...

Can't wait to sweat it out with you guys.

[FOG]

Mrs. FOG is pretty hardcore. She ran 10 miles Sunday, changed clothes then met me out on our "range" for 2 hours of shooting practice.



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[littlejerry]

Mrs. FOG is pretty hardcore. She ran 10 miles Sunday, changed clothes then met me out on our "range" for 2 hours of shooting practice.



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I've got serious FOG envy right now.

[FOG]

LJ, believe me, it's a blessing and a curse ;)

Course of Fire is listed below. Overall, it appears to be more challenging than previous matches. Most discussed change is at stage 3. It's now a one shot one kill scenario. I'm looking forward to it.



Oklahoma Run 'n Gun


PAWNEE SUMMER RUN 'N GUN 2017 COURSE OF FIRE

10K Only Bonus Stage I – Adversaries in the Foliage: Shooter must draw pistol and get two hits each on two 8” targets from approximately 10 yards, holster pistol, load rifle, and get two hits each on three remaining 8” targets from 15 to 50 yards. Movement will be required to see all targets. (4 pistol, 6 rifle)
​
Stage 1 – Unwelcome Guest: With either rifle or pistol, shooter must advance through two "rooms" and engage two cardboard silhouettes at across-room distances. Shooter must get at least 3 hits in the 8.5"x11" vital zone in the upper chest, and one in the brain on each silhouette. Targets will be wearing clothing which will make the torso hits difficult to observe, so be sure to shoot until you are confident you have the required hits. Shooter must then proceed to a shooting box and flip the 6" head plate on a hostage taker target from approximately 25 yards to end the stage. DQ if the required hits are not made on the cardboard targets. (9 rifle or pistol)
​
Stage 2 – Strong Hand/Other Strong Hand: Shooter must advance to 1st position and get two pistol hits on the first target from approximately 15 yards, advance to 2nd position and get two hits on the second target from approximately 20 yards, and advance to last position and get three hits right hand ONLY, then three hits left hand ONLY from approximately 10 yards. Targets will be approximately 12”x16”. (10 pistol)
​
Stage 3 – Rifleman’s Quarter Mile: Shooter gets one shot at an 18”x24” torso target at 500 yards -- time limit one minute. Shooter may then take one shot from offhand standing – no solid rests allowed, one minute time limit. This will be an optional shot – those who make a hit will be entered into a drawing for something cool. (2 rifle)
​
Stage 4 – The Junkyard Revisited: Shooter must hit two 10” steel targets at approximately 150 yards and one 12x20” target at approximately 200 yards from three different obstacles that will require awkward positions. (9 rifle)
​
Stage 5 – Can-do Attitude: Shooter must deliver one ammo can from the “ammo dump” at the base of the hill to the flagpole before being allowed to shoot this stage. Shooter must get two rifle hits from top of VTAC board (may use board as rest), then get one hit through each of seven marked holes in VTAC board on a 12”x20” target at approximately 150 yards. (9 rifle)
​
10K Only Bonus Stage II – Pipe Hitter: Shooter must crawl under barbed wire and through pipe obstacle. Firing through the hole in the barricade at the end of the pipe, shooter must get three rifle hits on a 12”x20” target at approximately 150 yards. (3 rifle)
​
2 minute time limit on all stages – Stage 3 is 1 minute plus 1 minute for bonus standing shot.

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Stage 3 – Rifleman’s Quarter Mile: Shooter gets one shot at an 18”x24” torso target at 500 yards -- time limit one minute. Shooter may then take one shot from offhand standing – no solid rests allowed, one minute time limit. This will be an optional shot – those who make a hit will be entered into a drawing for something cool. (2 rifle)I guess I'll be ditching the SBR for my 14.5" so I can actually have some holds.

[littlejerry]

I'm glad to see the stages are more challenging. Definitely intrigued by the 1 shot at 500. Better have a solid zero and know your wind calls...

[littlejerry]

I ran the Winter/Spring Trekker put on by Hawkeye Ignite last weekend in Forest Lake, MN, and it was a blast. The format was a 2 hour time period to run a 1.5 mile course and shoot at four stages each lap, two rifle and two pistol. Stages were 15 second par times, with pistol shots at 15 - 20 yards and rifle at 50-250 yds, all on steel. First lap was 25 pts per target, then 15, then 10 on the third lap, but then increasing by 5 pts each lap after that. I'm not a great shot but I can run pretty well, so that's what I optimized for.

I loaded up my pack with everything you see here, minus two rifle mags I took out at the last minute. Carried 200 rifle and 250 pistol rounds, but shot only about half of that (103 rifle and 139 pistol). http://i.imgur.com/Vbkw2QR.jpg

I mounted the rifle by slipping the handguards through a strap on the bottom of the pack and attached to a QD swivel on the top. Lots of people ran slings, put in an Eberlestock pack, or actually just carried rifles, but this was fast for me and left both hands free. It worked great and I would do it again but just tie down the top strap so it wouldn't loosen as easily.
http://i.imgur.com/aMWVISY.jpg

Lots of people ran with USPSA style holsters empty and just threw the pistol into their pack between stages. Some I think ran with retention holsters the whole time. I was the weirdo carrying AIWB. I used my CCC Gestalt for my P30 LEM, with an RCS Claw I added. I planned to just throw that all in my pack if it got too uncomfortable, but that never happened. I ended up doing 4.25 laps, so about 6.4 miles and it was comfortable and really fast. I did end up with a light bruise on my stomach the next day but I didn't notice anything during the run. It certainly helped that my pack is small on me so the hip strap was well above my hips, and that I'm a pretty thin guy.

This is the only picture I got of the stages. This was the long range rifle stage, with B/C steel targets, 3 at 50 yds, 2 at 150, and one at 250. Being a super novice on the rifle, I was quite proud of hitting all six targets in the 15 sec limit on two of the laps.
http://i.imgur.com/RBUK4g0.jpg

As I said, I'm not the greatest shooter but running was my strength here, so among the 29 people I managed to tie for second most stages and get into the top half of points, which is more than I expected. I'm definitely running the Summer Trekker this June.

That's a really interesting format: fixed time with unknown distance and round count. I'm curious what you think about that vs fixed distance/min round count. Definitely requires different planning.

[Eric_F]

I really enjoyed the format and I think it made the race more open to people who with strengths in shooting (there were a few older guys who walked the whole thing) or running (like myself). The MD Adam Maxwell said on the 3 Gun Show podcast the format was based on a type of dirtbike competition. Additionally, if you hit all the targets you could re-engage so some people got 9 hits on that long range stage, which was seriously impressive.

The downside was that it made the whole thing difficult to plan. The distance of the loop and stage design weren't known or published beforehand, all we knew was 15 sec par times. I'm not sure if Adam wanted it mysterious or just didn't know himself, I think it's the latter. We had to adjust that morning setup because the trap fields was open, he wanted the course to go longer. All of that resulted in myself and most people carrying way too much ammo. But that was a fun part of the whole thing too, managing your magazines and trying to gauge where you were at. Luckily or not, depending on how you look at it, the other rifle stage ran slowly (two plate racks to set up then engage from a tower) so there was always a line, so I loaded up mags while waiting. The morning flight had fewer people so they didn't have to wait and therefore got more laps in, so that was another uneven part of the competition.

[littlejerry]

2 months out- how's everyone doing?

I'm all geared up with my new HPG kit bag. I've got some 500 yard rifle practice and a few USPSA matches on the calendar to keep up with shooting. Other than that I'm on a CrossFit/Rucking/Running training regimen. Trying to increase both weekly miles and hours out in the heat either running or rucking.

[FOG]

Other than weekly shooting sessions, haven't been doing any rng specific training yet.

Mrs. FOG and I are doing a trail race in Arkansas in two weeks so I've been focused on that the last 4 months. 40-60 miles/ week and 9 runs of 20 miles or more including 3 marathons. If mt legs don't turn to jelly, I should be okay come July!

Gear wise, I bought a AWS LAB belt to use if the HPG kit bag proves to be too hot for the July heat. Their belt system is ingenious. I've used it during shooting drills but haven't ran with it much, yet. I may use the AWS for the bolt rifle leg and the HPG for the AR leg, both with their own hydration packs, that way I could just drop one and grab the other and take off.

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[Eric_F]

Just a heads up for anyone in the area, but Hawkeye is hosting the Summer Trekker 2 Gun race in Forest Lake, MN on June 4. I believe it will be the same format as the Winter/Spring Trekker, two hours for as many laps as you can do on a 1 to 2-mile course with two rifle and two pistol stages. Some wading though streams and mud should be expected, some is optional for extra points.

Details are here: http://hawkeyeignite.com/portfolio-items/summer-trekker-june-4th-2017/

[Default.mp3]

FYI:

Tickets for our October 21-22 events will go on sale at 6pm on Monday June 12. We sold out quickly last time, so make sure to get in there to secure your spot.

In order to allow participants to choose the part of the day in which they will begin the Biathlon or Sprint, we are instituting a system of four heats, with start times as follows: 8am-10am, 10am-Noon, Noon-2pm and 2pm-4pm. When registering in Eventbrite, participants can purchase tickets for the heat of their choice.
​
This new registration and check-in protocol will significantly reduce the amount of time spent waiting to run, especially for those running in the afternoon. Those with potential scheduling conflicts on the day of the event will be able to manage their check-in and start times by registering for the heat of their choosing, in order to get to or from the other places they need to be that day.

Of course, we very strongly encourage everybody to be present at the end of the day for results, trophies and prizes. We expect this to take place as soon as the last participant finishes the course, roughly at 6:30pm on Saturday and 4:30pm Sunday. Make sure to stick around!

For more info about the new registration process, please see the description here (https://www.wtfbiathlon.com/register).

[FOG]

Unfortunately, late Oct. is when I start winding down on biathlons and races and start focusing on hunting.

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[littlejerry]

Waco is a long drive from the East Coast.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for another Rock Castle event this fall

[FOG]

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for another Rock Castle event this fall

That inaugural event was a huge success and I hear Matt is working out details for the next one.


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[Eric_F]

The Summer Trekker on Sunday was great. It was 85 to 90 here in Minnesota, so it was a hot one. The long range area wasn't available so our longest shots were 90 yds, which were from fairly improvised positions. We compensated by having a ton of close knockdown steel for pistols. The course was a little under a mile, again a time limit of two hours, and the top finishers did 5 laps and change. Round counts were in the range of 200 pistol and 125 rifle. Spread over two hours of constant running, there's just no down time, it's great.

One standout was the guy who put us all to shame and ran it in both the morning and afternoon flights. Joe, you're crazy, in the best way.

I'm really looking forward to the Winter Trekker on December 3rd, though hopefully it won't be -20 again. With luck we can get a spring and fall Trekker going too.

[littlejerry]

So... 1 month from Race Day. Who will be there? Who is ready?

I'm still adding mileage. I've got some good 12 mile runs under my belt so far across carried terrain. Should have time for 2-3 more quality long runs before the race.

[FOG]

I'll be ready. Since completing the War Eagle 50k two weeks ago, I've started training specifically for this run n gun. Heat acclimation and running with a load is the focus.

Dry firing almost nightly and live fire once a week with focus on mid range (100-200 yds) rifle technique from kneeling and standing positions.

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[Default.mp3]

I'll be there, and I'll be YOLOing it once again. We'll see how bad my performance is.

[littlejerry]

I'll be ready. Since completing the War Eagle 50k two weeks ago, I've started training specifically for this run n gun. Heat acclimation and running with a load is the focus.

Dry firing almost nightly and live fire once a week with focus on mid range (100-200 yds) rifle technique from kneeling and standing positions.

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Any bolt gun practice? I've been playing with the M39. It ... Sucks. Plenty accurate, just a PITA to do anything quickly with it.

The second half is going to suck.

[FOG]

Any bolt gun practice? I've been playing with the M39. It ... Sucks. Plenty accurate, just a PITA to do anything quickly with it.

The second half is going to suck.
Yes, but no long distance work

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[FOG]

Event is this weekend and temps are predicted to be 101 with a hear index of 106. For the guys doing the 20k that means 5-6 hours of exposure carrying 25# gear with only the water you carry to sustain you that entire time. I suspect maybe 1/2 of the 19 guys doing that distance will finish. Sèems only fitting to wear my 'suffer in silence' t-shirt! Be safe gentlemen!

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[Gage]

I tend to use an expensive baby stroller

[FOG]

I tend to use an expensive baby stroller
Dragging it under barb wire may pose a problem [emoji6]

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[littlejerry]

I'm changed my goals from placing well to just finishing. This heat will be brutal and I don't have a good way to replicate it in GA. Not only is it cooler here but we've got shade everywhere.

My plan is to stay covered, drink water, go slow, and keep ice handy when I'm re stocking between laps.

[Default.mp3]

Event is this weekend and temps are predicted to be 101 with a hear index of 106. For the guys doing the 20k that means 5-6 hours of exposure carrying 25# gear with only the water you carry to sustain you that entire time. I suspect maybe 1/2 of the 19 guys doing that distance will finish. Sèems only fitting to wear my 'suffer in silence' t-shirt! Be safe gentlemen!So, what you're saying, anyone doing the Juggernaut Challenge will have a joyous time with their self-flagellation?

I'm almost tempted to try it now. I'd be basically cheating on the armor side, anyway, with my STOP-BZs in a PLATEminus. Helmet would make it suck, though.

[FOG]

So, what you're saying, anyone doing the Juggernaut Challenge will have a joyous time with their self-flagellation?

I'm almost tempted to try it now. I'd be basically cheating on the armor side, anyway, with my STOP-BZs in a PLATEminus. Helmet would make it suck, though.
There's only 3-4 doing that crazy deal. I concur on the Helmet sucking. I'll graciously loan you my cheap PC and steel plates if you want the full, sucky effect.

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[Default.mp3]

Well, I packed my armor and helmet; still undecided if I'll actually go through with it, though. If I do, it'll be like 90% speed walking.

I'll be in a bright red top and bright blue shorts game day, hit me up if you see me.

[littlejerry]

Update:
Race completed. I finished the 20k, but only barely. Final distance was 15 miles.

I was in bad, bad shape at the end. I spent the night covered in ice and vomiting. According to Weather Underground the temp got over 110. I'm not sure what the heat index was.

Not sure I'll try the 20k summer again. I'll definitely do the 20k winter and 10k summer.

[FOG]

Update:
Race completed. I finished the 20k, but only barely. Final distance was 15 miles.

I was in bad, bad shape at the end. I spent the night covered in ice and vomiting. According to Weather Underground the temp got over 110. I'm not sure what the heat index was.

Not sure I'll try the 20k summer again. I'll definitely do the 20k winter and 10k summer.
I was in the same boat including the vomiting. My wife had to cut my steak for me that night at the restaurant because my hands couldn't hold the fork and knife without cramping. The match director said today that he's discontinuing the summer 20k for safety reasons.

You showed a tremendous amount of heart just finishing, quite the achievement and you got that fancy UGA colored trigger to boot!!! You and your buddy did awesome at my pistol stage, was fun to watch.

ETA: my garmin watch showed a similar distance... 14.88 miles.

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[littlejerry]

I was in the same boat including the vomiting. My wife had to cut my steak for me that night at the restaurant because my hands couldn't hold the fork and knife without cramping. The match director said today that he's discontinuing the summer 20k for safety reasons.

You showed a tremendous amount of heart just finishing, quite the achievement and you got that fancy UGA colored trigger to boot!!! You and your buddy did awesome at my pistol stage, was fun to watch.

ETA: my garmin watch showed a similar distance... 14.88 miles.

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I think 14.9 is what I recorded last race. I didn't turn mine off between loops, so the walk to and from the car added to it.

I have no idea what my score is. I know my second run took forever. I think some of my shooting was decent, but I DNF'd the last 3 bolt gun stages. Almost finished stages 4 and 6, was just 1 hit away on both. It's hard to run a Mosin Nagant action quickly.

I'm not surprised they are cancelling the 20k. I pushed too hard and almost got into serious trouble. I did lots of heat training but our weather just doesn't match the OK sun and heat.

After my first 10k race I felt super motivated to get in better shape, go back, and try to be competitive. I have no desire to ever try the 20k summer again. I don't know how I could train to perform in that heat without risking stroke.

I'll be back for the winter, and maybe next summer for the 10k.

[FOG]

You're not alone, last weekend was exponentially harder than either 30 mile trail race I've done.

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[Default.mp3]

I felt much better with this 10K than last year's 10K, despite having the plate carrier and helmet this time around. I was able to ration my water much better, and paced the shit out of myself, plenty of sitting around without gear; heat acclimatization was much better this year for me. Still shot rifle like garbage; need more practice with the LPVO. Curious to see how the three of us that did the Juggernaut Challenge compare to each other.

Am I the only person that jumped in the lake? That felt pretty glorious.

Pretty moto that y'all both finished, either way.

[littlejerry]

I felt much better with this 10K than last year's 10K, despite having the plate carrier and helmet this time around. I was able to ration my water much better, and paced the shit out of myself, plenty of sitting around without gear; heat acclimatization was much better this year for me. Still shot rifle like garbage; need more practice with the LPVO. Curious to see how the three of us that did the Juggernaut Challenge compare to each other.

Am I the only person that jumped in the lake? That felt pretty glorious.

Pretty moto that y'all both finished, either way.

I skipped the lake. It looked a little too stagnant to me.

I did hang out in the creek for a good 5 minutes on the second run.

[FOG]

I spent 20 min in a water trough when I finished.

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[Default.mp3]

Summer scores are up: http://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/bbf62b_d71f819d9a1749dabc98aba71dcf2dc3.xlsx?dn=Pa wnee%20Summer%202017%20scores.xlsx

As expected, mediocre shooting (I really need to work on positional shooting with the LPVO and work out eye relief and all that, it really isn't as easy as an RDS for me once I'm outside of the square range positions) combined with a very poor run time (my winter 20K time was over an hour shorter than this 10K time). Then again, I was basically fine an hour after my run besides some mild soreness, so I guess I could have easily pushed my run time much harder. Still, since I did zero training with the PC and helmet, I think ultimately it was wise of me to play it cautious.

[Default.mp3]

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4326/36277850236_b7f8072478_o.jpg

[littlejerry]

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4326/36277850236_b7f8072478_o.jpg

Damn, that sounds awesome. And rock castle isn't that far away from me.

Problem is I'm about 90% certain I'll be overseas on business that week/weekend

[FOG]

The Pawnee winter run n gun is scheduled for Jan. 20, tickets will be going on sale soon. 5k, 10k, 20k. Special side event is the 'Andrew's Garand Challenge' where participants must run a garand in the 10k or one leg of the 20k.

Maybe this is the year we get true winter weather? That'd make things interesting to say the least.

okrunngun.com

I'm headed down near Waco in a few weeks for the W.T.F. 5 mile biathlon. Looking forward to some stiff competition.

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[littlejerry]

I'm ready! Planning on the 15 mile run.

Signed up for GoRuck in November, a 10M road race in December, so I've got plenty of training planned for the next 3 months.

Garand challenge is tempting. I have a Garand and love it, but I love my AR more. The last Mil surp challenge was much harder than I originally expected... I may go "easy" this time and run the AR.

[gtae07]

Ooooh, now this looks like fun...

I used to do a few races a year (triathlons, mud runs, and a 15k) and though I'm not fast by any measure* I found them to be a lot of fun. Last two years I fell off the wagon and I'm not nearly in the shape I was when I did the Augusta half-iron; having a newborn-turned-toddler around really puts a crimp on training opportunities. I need to start getting into something to keep my ass moving. Looks like the trick will be finding one somewhere closer to home; anything further than a few hours' drive is out. I have no illusions of finishing outside the bottom 33% but that's not the point. I need to exercise, and exercise that's fun or has a direct purpose** is better.


*My time at Augusta was 6:57:14... yes, I'm slooowwww....

**I like helping people move; it's exercise with a purpose...

[littlejerry]

Ooooh, now this looks like fun...

I used to do a few races a year (triathlons, mud runs, and a 15k) and though I'm not fast by any measure* I found them to be a lot of fun. Last two years I fell off the wagon and I'm not nearly in the shape I was when I did the Augusta half-iron; having a newborn-turned-toddler around really puts a crimp on training opportunities. I need to start getting into something to keep my ass moving. Looks like the trick will be finding one somewhere closer to home; anything further than a few hours' drive is out. I have no illusions of finishing outside the bottom 33% but that's not the point. I need to exercise, and exercise that's fun or has a direct purpose** is better.


*My time at Augusta was 6:57:14... yes, I'm slooowwww....

**I like helping people move; it's exercise with a purpose...

FYI, RBGC near Ball Ground GA has a 5k Biathlon scheduled for March 2018

[FOG]

Rock Castle in KY will have another RNG in March as well. 5k and 10k. Neat venue and good organizers.

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[FOG]

Pawnee tickets on sale today and going fast

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[littlejerry]

Pawnee tickets on sale today and going fast

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I've got a 20K slot

[MRW]

They went fast. I'm waitlisted. 20k would be a little farther than I can put the training time in for by January. I'll keep an eye on the March events as well. Appreciate the head's up.

[FOG]

Keep training because I can almost guarantee you'll get in. The week leading up to the event sees many cancelations. There's always a handful that just don't show up also.

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[FOG]

Waco Tactical Fitness Run and Gun held October 20 - 22 in Crawford, TX near Waco

Wife and I went down to RO and do the 5 mile event last Friday. Very challenging event and tough competition

Shooting Stages:

8 stages total. 2 were pistol only, 4 were rifle only and 2 were rifle/pistol combo. Round count was ~60 pistol and 55 rifle. One pistol stage had a 60% DNF rate. It consisted of 3 shooting positions. 1st position required hits on 4" square plates at 32 yards from behind a barricade. The USPSA/3-gun types killed it but the square range, 7 yard and in type guys struggled. The highlight of the event for me was placing 8th out of 104 on that stage. The Gabe White class and the Ben Stoeger books are paying off! 3 of the rifle stages required multiple 400+ yard hits One of them required you to a climb a tree, sit on a limb and make hits. I was very methodical on all my shooting until I ran out of ammo on the last pistol stage giving me a big fat DNF, ouch. That pushed me down to 13/104 on the shooting portion.

Obstacles:

These were interesting. Walls, inclined monkey bars, high hurdles, tin horns, high chain link fence sections gave a lot of people fits. The 8' wall that had to be scaled had a high failure rate. In itself, it wasn't hard but considering you're carrying 20+ pounds of gear and you've already ran 3 miles, it wasn't a gimme. I practiced in advance for most of the obstacles so I cleared them all without much difficulty.

Run Course:

Mostly flat and very runnable except for a mile section or so of creek bed that was a little dicey. I kept a pace that normally nets me a top 5 run time but I underestimated the competition. I wound up 11th overall, that was very disappointing.

Overall the event was a blast. I placed 9th out of 104 competitors, respectable but I expected higher. Kudos to the guys ahead of me, they were very good shooters and runners. Great group of guys all in all and the organizers had everything squared away. Would definitely recommend it if you're in the vicinity. I believe they have another event in February. These Run and Gun Biathlons are super fun and a very good challenge. They're gaining in popularity, especially in TX, and if you've ever been to one, you know why.

[03RN]

I need to look into a New England shoot up here. Best place to start looking?

In the meantime I run a 6 mile loop in armor with my 590 a couple times a week during hunting season. It's not as much fun without my dog though RIP Jack.
21938

[EricP]

I need to look into a New England shoot up here. Best place to start looking?

The only one that I know of is The Monadnock Rod and Gun Excruciathlon Mudder/Biathalon. See April 2018 for details and requirements.

http://events.mrgci.com/cgi-bin/mrgciev.cgi?CalendarName=MRGC&Op=ShowIt&Amount=Month&NavType=Absolute&Type=Block&Date=2018%2F4%2F1

[MRW]

The Rock Castle 5k and 10k Run N Gun is open for registration. Still spots open. I just signed up for the 10k.

[FOG]

Youre gonna love it! Last years inaurgural Rockcastle event was a huge success and this one is shaping up to be even better. The 5k filled up in 18 minutes but there's still several 10k slots open.

The prize table is worth the price of admission. Matt has hit a home run with the sponsors he's signed up... Glock, Magpul, Dillon, Vortex are just a few.

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[littlejerry]

Youre gonna love it! Last years inaurgural Rockcastle event was a huge success and this one is shaping up to be even better. The 5k filled up in 18 minutes but there's still several 10k slots open.

The prize table is worth the price of admission. Matt has hit a home run with the sponsors he's signed up... Glock, Magpul, Dillon, Vortex are just a few.

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Shoot! One of the local ranges is having it's inaugural 5k race in March, otherwise I'd totally do Rock Castle.

[littlejerry]

Screw it, I went and signed up. Looks like I'll do 2 Run N Guns in March.

[FOG]

Heck ya, you won't regret it. Its one of the better rng's out there. Better book a room at the lodge, it'll probably fill up fast.

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[rjohnson4405]

Registered for the 10k and got a room at the Lodge, driving down from Dayton, Ohio if anyone wants a ride. Going down the 17th and back the 18th.

[equin]

Hi Folks,

I’m new to the forum and new to the shooting sports as well. I just read with interest this thread, including the OP’s and others’ training regimen and after-action-reports. I signed up for my very first run and gun in Cresson, Texas on Feb 24. So this thread has some real valuable info for a newbie like me. The Cresson event is supposed to be about 6 miles, and I hope to be able to at least jog most of the way. Anyone elsecon here going to the Cresson event?

[equin]

Here’s a link to the event:

https://texasrunandgun.org/

Looks like the Cresson event is one of a series of Texas-based run and guns for 2018.

[FOG]

No, I've got other plans that weekend. As stated , that deal is part of the new TX RNG Association. The waco event is in that association too. They're all about the same... run fast and shoot straight and you'll do good.

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[equin]

I had started jogging several months ago to train for the Lonestar Armory run. Mind you, I despise running and jogging for distance. I find it extremely boring and envy those who enjoy it. I wish I could because I know cardio is good exercise, especially for someone like me in my early 50’s. I have Crohn’s disease, albeit mild, and cardio supposedly helps keep the inflammation at bay. So I figure something like this, where I can combine shooting, will make it fun.

I had built up to about 6 miles jogging with no added weight and about 4 miles with about 20-25 lbs of soup cans stuffed in a backpack. I have to say knowing that I’m training for this actually makes it fun. Unfortunately, I got sick for six weeks during the holidays and lost my endurance gains. I started up again this past week but over did it a bit. Will have to go slow and be patient the next week or two.

As for carrying gear, I don’t really have most of the stuff I see others using in some of the run and gun photos, like chest rigs, battle belts, and cool stuff like that. I’m hoping to make do with a backpack and pants pockets for ammo, mags and a Camel-back type water bladder. I just have one of those 80’s military style nylon flap holsters for my handgun, but I do have a cool VTAC padded sling that has the quick cinch feature. Either way, I’m not in it to win, just to challenge myself, learn from my mistakes and gear’s limitations, and have fun doing so.

Again, this thread has been great.

[littlejerry]

I had started jogging several months ago to train for the Lonestar Armory run. Mind you, I despise running and jogging for distance. I find it extremely boring and envy those who enjoy it. I wish I could because I know cardio is good exercise, especially for someone like me in my early 50’s. I have Crohn’s disease, albeit mild, and cardio supposedly helps keep the inflammation at bay. So I figure something like this, where I can combine shooting, will make it fun.

I had built up to about 6 miles jogging with no added weight and about 4 miles with about 20-25 lbs of soup cans stuffed in a backpack. I have to say knowing that I’m training for this actually makes it fun. Unfortunately, I got sick for six weeks during the holidays and lost my endurance gains. I started up again this past week but over did it a bit. Will have to go slow and be patient the next week or two.

As for carrying gear, I don’t really have most of the stuff I see others using in some of the run and gun photos, like chest rigs, battle belts, and cool stuff like that. I’m hoping to make do with a backpack and pants pockets for ammo, mags and a Camel-back type water bladder. I just have one of those 80’s military style nylon flap holsters for my handgun, but I do have a cool VTAC padded sling that has the quick cinch feature. Either way, I’m not in it to win, just to challenge myself, learn from my mistakes and gear’s limitations, and have fun doing so.

Again, this thread has been great.

I bought a cheap China/airsoft ches rig from Amazon for my first race. I think it was $30-40 with an integrated hydration carrier. Ended up using it for 3 races. It never fit right and always loosened up during the run, but it did work.

Now I run a 2 piece belt, kinda like a USPSA competition belt. I keep a few rifle and pistol mags on the belt and a backup or two in my small backpack.

I've had good luck with the Blue Force Gear 10 Speed belt pouches. They are very light, simple,and have good retention. Attach to a standard 1.5" belt. I'd recommend getting one of those just do you had a secure mag handy.

Pockets don't work great for most people: they bounce and sometimes lose mags.

[equin]

Thanks LJ. Excellent info. I did a search for the 10 speed pouch and found this:

https://www.skdtac.com/Blue-Force-Gear-Ten-Speed-SSE-Pouch-p/bfg.107.htm

Is that what you’re referring to? It looks like it would work pretty good with its claims that it’ll fit a number of mags in there.

[littlejerry]

Thanks LJ. Excellent info. I did a search for the 10 speed pouch and found this:

https://www.skdtac.com/Blue-Force-Gear-Ten-Speed-SSE-Pouch-p/bfg.107.htm

Is that what you’re referring to? It looks like it would work pretty good with its claims that it’ll fit a number of mags in there.
Not quite, this is what I'm referring to:
http://www.skdtac.com/Blue-Force-Gear-Low-Rise-M4-Belt-Pouch-p/bfg.574.htm

The low rise pouch is much more stable while running. The high rise pouch works well for 20 Rd mags.

I also have the double pistol pouch version which works great. If you buy one make sure it's the Belt Mounted version and not "Helium Whisper"- that's their MOLLE attachment

[equin]

I see now. Got it. Thanks!

[schüler]

The low rise pouch is much more stable while running. The high rise pouch works well for 20 Rd mags.


Do you have low/high mixed up in that sentence or am I missing something?

[littlejerry]

Do you have low/high mixed up in that sentence or am I missing something?

Sorry, poorly formed thought while tapping on phone.

High rise works well for 20rd mags, but isn't very stable with 30s.

Low rise is much better for 30s and doesn't flop around when running.

BFG nomenclature: rise refers to mag position relative to belt, not the coverage of the magazine.

[schüler]

Sorry, poorly formed thought while tapping on phone.

High rise works well for 20rd mags, but isn't very stable with 30s.

Low rise is much better for 30s and doesn't flop around when running.

BFG nomenclature: rise refers to mag position relative to belt, not the coverage of the magazine.Ah, gotcha. THanks!

[Default.mp3]

Another year, and what looks to be another mild winter day for the competition. Shame.

[FOG]

Indeed. I trained in the frigid cold for nothing.

Last weekend I was out there for a multigun match and it was in the 20's most of the day. Afterwards I donned gear and ran most of the RNG course and the weather was perfect. Its going to feel like a heat wave this weekend. In fact, I may have to carry water.



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[littlejerry]

I'm kinda disappointed there won't be an epic blizzard, but then again the last race almost killed me so maybe "easy" weather won't be a bad thing.

My itinerary is a bit different this time around. I'm flying in and out of Tulsa instead of driving, so I'll actually have time to hang out after the race instead of driving back to Little Rock. If anyone wants to grab a steak after the race I'm game.

[LOKNLOD]

I was probably too late to the game by the time I send the email, but I tried to snag one of the spots that opened up today. We'll see.

[Default.mp3]

If anyone wants to grab a steak after the race I'm game.Click's, last I checked, does not take reservations over the phone, but does in person. I can probably set something up Saturday night since I'll be staying at Pecan Grove again, if we get some numbers up.

[FOG]

LnL , just show up, there's always no call/no shows. Flop down the cash, I seriously doubt they'll turn you away.

On a side note, I almost called you about that match this weekend but I got busy and forgot. It was cold, but fun.

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[FOG]

We'll be eating there Friday for sure. Mrs. FOG is running Friday so she'll want to celebrate and I'll be eating the nerves away for Saturdays run. We might eat there Saturday as well, who knows.

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[rjohnson4405]

In a bit of analysis paralysis for the rock castle run and gun. Training is going okay but I want to start running on the basement treadmill under load. And I only got 2 months to work out gear issues.

Thinking this to carry 3 rifle mags, maybe a water bottle, IFAK, flashlight, and stopwatch: http://www.first-spear.com/product.php?productid=17700&cat=274&page=1

And then 4 pistol mags and a holster on my usual wilderness belt. Second flashlight and pocket knife in my pockets. Carrying my rifle most of the time.

Feedback? Thoughts? Do I really need suspenders? I do intend to actually run the whole thing so will suspenders help with stability?

[schüler]

Thinking this to carry 3 rifle mags, maybe a water bottle, IFAK, flashlight, and stopwatch: http://www.first-spear.com/product.php?productid=17700&cat=274&page=1


That looks hella uncomfortable for planning to run a course with loaded mags. Chafing, breathing restrictive? Fabulous control garment tho. ;-)

Ultralight chest rig (BFG splitminus?) High on chest + separate light backpack with compression straps. Load up the chest rig with mags as needed, keep mostly empty between runs. Lightweight frame pack if you're carrying substantial weight.

[littlejerry]

In a bit of analysis paralysis for the rock castle run and gun. Training is going okay but I want to start running on the basement treadmill under load. And I only got 2 months to work out gear issues.

Thinking this to carry 3 rifle mags, maybe a water bottle, IFAK, flashlight, and stopwatch: http://www.first-spear.com/product.php?productid=17700&cat=274&page=1

And then 4 pistol mags and a holster on my usual wilderness belt. Second flashlight and pocket knife in my pockets. Carrying my rifle most of the time.

Feedback? Thoughts? Do I really need suspenders? I do intend to actually run the whole thing so will suspenders help with stability?

First: skip the treadmill. It's ok to test your gear but I highly recommend loading a backpack with sandbags and running outdoors on real hills. You need to practice pacing yourself on flat ground, uphills, and downhills. I made a simulated rifle weight by filling a PVC pipe with concrete. Worked well for getting accustomed to the awkward weight

Second: I love my suspenders. I've got 2 AR mags, 2 spare pistol mags, and a loaded G19 on my belt. Suspenders let's me run the belt a little looser which is great. Also mitigates having an unbalanced load(spare mags >> loaded Glock).

I carry spares in my backpack. If needed I can exchange mags on the move between stages.

I can't remember the round count, but I think for Rock Castle I was planning 4 rifle and 4 pistol mags. I kinda got screwed at the last OK RnG when a timer died on a stage. I didn't budget enough ammo for a reshoot, so they "guessed" what my time was. An extra mag won't kill my run and I like the insurance.

Third:. Take water. A 10k run isn't hard and doesn't require water, but you don't know how long you'll be out there. Wait times vary and obstacles may be challenging. Take some water and a cliff bar or gel. If nothing else it's useful to wipe mud off your hands/face, clean your glasses, etc.

[rjohnson4405]

First, it's been in single digits here so I ain't running out side...yet.

Okay, I could run two pistol and two rifle mags on my wilderness belt and everything else in a backpack with a small water bladder. I just liked the idea of having everything out at once. But that does seem more practical/comfortable. I'm not crazy about a big chest rig, I just have no use for it outside of this event...

[littlejerry]

First, it's been in single digits here so I ain't running out side...yet.

Okay, I could run two pistol and two rifle mags on my wilderness belt and everything else in a backpack with a small water bladder. I just liked the idea of having everything out at once. But that does seem more practical/comfortable. I'm not crazy about a big chest rig, I just have no use for it outside of this event...

Ouch! Didn't see your location. Yeah, single digits suck.

I'm not a fan of chest rigs either. I bought a cheap Condor(airsoft) setup on Amazon for my first race. It gets HOT in the summer and it never fit well- I'm 5'11" but have a smaller frame so the shoulders and chest were always too loose.

All that said- I'm happy to loan it out for a race. I'd be willing to drop it in the mail and let you return it at the event. If you're interested send a PM.

[rjohnson4405]

...

All that said- I'm happy to loan it out for a race. I'd be willing to drop it in the mail and let you return it at the event. If you're interested send a PM.

Thanks! I have a minimalist setup I want to try and if I do a couple runs with it and find it lacking I will be in touch.

[Default.mp3]

Another year, another 20K first place finishing from @FOG (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=11859). He also managed to snag the 3rd place finish for the 10K.

I did manage to snag the winning score for the 10K Juggernaut challenge, and got talked into doing my entire 20K in armor and helmet by one of the events organizer (Daniel Hensch). The former achievement was probably more due to a low skill pool out of the guys doing Juggernaut than my own physical prowess, as I managed to run an extra 2 miles on the first 10K; I missed a blindly obvious turn, and ended up taking the next turn. This meant that I clocked 15.98 miles in armor and helmet, besides all the other gear. Yeah, it sucked.

My rifling was again mediocre (sounds like a broken record at this point), although I feel my skills have actually improved; a combination of fatigue (which hurt both my physical performance and mental train of thought, the latter being my total failure to account for offset on my rifle through an otherwise easy stage) and inability to read wind hurt my rifle shooting.

As always, great to see @FOG (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=11859) (and his lovely wife that RO'd after running the event yesterday) and @littlejerry (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=842).

[LOKNLOD]

Nice work, dude.

[littlejerry]

FOG is a beast. Not sure what his run time was, but he smoked me. I placed 2nd overall for the 20k, and managed to snag 1st place for the shoot score. I felt like my rifle stages went really well and my pistol stages were a bit rougher, but it all worked out.

Default was a total badass and did the 20k in full kit with plates and a helmet. And not only was the "20k" 14 miles this time, but he managed to take a wrong turn and added another ~2 mile bonus. I'm sure his legs and shoulders will feel good tomorrow.

[FOG]

Fun weekend. Love seeing and catching up with everyone. We can go 6 months between seeing each other but when we do, we just pick up where we left off. Pretty cool.

I told LJ beforehand that he was primed to win one and damn near did. He and I are kindred spirits, it's a shame we live 500+ miles apart. Default showed a ton of resilience in not throwing in the towel after that 2 mile wrong turn mistake. Must have been the Marlboros that gave him strength!

My running propelled me to victory again but my shooting has gotten much better, specifically over the last few months. Mr_White and others from this forum have been a contributing factor in that area of improvement so thanks for the help.

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[rjohnson4405]

Shot some handgun and AR in gear then did my first outdoor run since the weather was perfect (50 and sunny). It was tough but not terrible. Ran over hay fields on a big loops, one down hill and one up hill every .75 miles. Did 2 miles, took a 5 minute break, and ran another mile. Holding just under 10 minute miles was a bit humbling.

Running just one mag for each gun on my belt and then a hill people gear recon bag (pic below). The mag carrier attached to the HPG bag bounces a lot. Would rather just put the mags inside of it, but curious how the stages work, especially the rifle stage. Can I just dig a mag out of the HPG bag as I come in and load up from there? Any recommendations? Not the most comfortable I've ever been but I like the opportunity to push myself a little bit (including not carrying any water/food).

23369

[Default.mp3]

I personally dislike the HPG set-up for running, too much bouncing and inhibits heat loss. I prefer having as much on the belt as possible.

[FOG]

This what i wore at the 2017 winter RNG

3 AR mags and a pistol in there with 2 pistol mags on the belt. Worked well for me. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180128/d5a2fc1667e719b5c7e132d80cfa88fe.jpg

ETA... come to think of it, I wore that setup ar Rockcastle too. Its a very compact deal with everything right there in your workspace. As I would come to a stage I'd grab a mag and stow it loosely in my front pocket. One huge advantage to keeping the pistol and AR mags in the kit bag was the monsoon that occurred the day of the Rockcastle match made for muddy conditions at the obstacles and caused alot malfunctions from guys crawling through deep mud. My gear was wet but not muddy so no problems for me.

[rjohnson4405]

Thanks for the responses!

I'm going to take off the mag pouch and just put everything in the HPG set up. I also got the running bungy to help stabilize it.

I've avoided a full "battle" belt because I don't have much other use for it while I will hunt and hike with the HPG setup.

I'm going to run with it again this week (cold again so sticking to the treadmill) and continue to evaluate.

Anyone running barrel condoms or mag well blocks to prevent stuff getting in the gun?

[MRW]

I've been getting out on runs even though we've had teens and single digits. Not bad as long you're covered up and keep moving. I'm also hiking with 20-25 lbs of gear. I'm working on getting used to weight and starting next week, I'm going work in shorter runs with weight to further acclimate to the race.

I'm planning on using a HPG kit bag and a Tarahumara pack to evenly distribute the weight and protect the gear from mud. I'm definately not going to break any records but I'm looking forward to the challenge.

[rjohnson4405]

I ran again today, it was only 30. Putting more in the HPG bag and adding the stabilization strap helped a ton.

Got in 3 miles right at 30 minutes but it was everything I had, a lot of hills. Bundling up and putting on the gear added up to a tough run. Still making progress. Definitely think I can do the 6 miles, not sure how well I'll be able to shoot throughout it though.

[Pistol Pete 10]

I ain't gonna run if I still got ammo.

[Default.mp3]

I ain't gonna run if I still got ammo.https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4665/40075768832_c68777429d_o.png

[littlejerry]

I ran again today, it was only 30. Putting more in the HPG bag and adding the stabilization strap helped a ton.

Got in 3 miles right at 30 minutes but it was everything I had, a lot of hills. Bundling up and putting on the gear added up to a tough run. Still making progress. Definitely think I can do the 6 miles, not sure how well I'll be able to shoot throughout it though.

Nice job! Sounds like you're doing the right kind of training. A 10min pace in full gear isn't bad at all. Make sure you've got some hills in the mix and you'll have a solid training plan.

[schüler]

...One huge advantage to keeping the pistol and AR mags in the kit bag was the monsoon that occurred the day of the Rockcastle match made for muddy conditions at the obstacles and caused alot malfunctions from guys crawling through deep mud. My gear was wet but not muddy so no problems for me.

YES. That's one reason the Mayflower UW split front and other types are the bomb for recce type events. Split front also makes it easy to go comfy prone.

I prefer non-hydration, -nav, -admin weight on hips. Healthy form really begins to suffer on long-for-you courses when you're gassed. Back and shoulders take the brunt of poor form.

[rjohnson4405]

Out of town this weekend, I get home after dark, and there is 4+ inches of snow on the ground so I ran on the treadmill.

4 miles holding 40 minutes in gear. It's my parent's treadmill and it was a bit iffy so I didn't use the inclination adjustment for fear it would break or get stuck (I cheated and ran flat).

Broke in my Salomon Speedcross shoes I decided on as they're light, breathable, and have great grip. Not waterproof which may bite me but we'll see.

Did not like running on the treadmill, staring at the basement wall was boring, and the hand rails to the side limited some of the positions I rotate the rifle through for comfort.

Shoe pic (these things are cool and super comfortable, won't wear them on the treadmill anymore, just wanted to break them in):
23651

[rjohnson4405]

This is kind of turning into my personal journal but hoping it will motivate others and keep me motivated.

Got out of work a little early as it's the only day not raining this week. Ran 4 miles outside in 44 minutes, 40 degrees. Same loop, so almost half of it is either uphill or downhill. The shoes were awesome, I was tight and slow the first 3 miles and the 4th felt the best and was the fastest. Dog is smoked after running back and forth sort of with me.

Really want to get more shooting in but the weather/time is really in the way (when I have time the weather sucks and when the weather is good I don't have time). I need to at least really spend some time solidifying my 100yd zero. I can consistently hit 8" steel at 100 yards with no time constraint but I want to make sure it's perfect as I'll likely get little or no 300 yard practice. From what I gather in this thread it's really about the running so definitely putting my emphasis there.

Not sure I'll run a contiguous 6 miles before the race. Might start trying to combine running 1-2 miles then doing some shooting then running again, etc. Still getting in some weight lifting and making a little progress although this definitely gets in the way.

[rjohnson4405]

Got out for a run this morning. 32 degrees, I was in a Columbus metro-park so I kept all the gear on under my jacket, just didn't run with the rifle.

Lots of hills, some hiking paths, and gravel paths. 4 miles in 36:22.

Having real paths where I didn't have to drag my feet through/over hay or pick my steps carefully made a big difference. Running without a rifle is a lot more comfortable, unsurprisingly. I like that my normal training area is probably rougher than what I'll have to run, hopefully I can adjust pace accordingly, but this was a nice mix up. Planning to get some shooting in tomorrow.
FOG littlejerry PSBT4117 - get some updates in here! I need to know other people are in the suck too :)

[littlejerry]

Alright, rjohnson4405 shamed me into giving an update.

First things first: details from the January race.

This was my strongest race yet. I placed 2nd overall on the 20k, and my 10ks were 6th and 8th overall. Previous best was 10th on the 10k. My shooting is still far better than my running (I placed 1st overall for shooting, I believe my run times were 18th and 20th).

My preparation for this race differed a great deal from previous races: I barely did any running. My exercise regimen consisted of CrossFit 3-4 days per week, rucking 1-2 days, and bodyweight PT 1-2 days. About 6 weeks before the race I started doing a long run once per week, starting at 6 miles and then building up to 12 miles for my final training run. I went back and read this thread again and, go figure, SLG mentioned that his typical fitness routine was 5 days of CrossFit and some rucking. That dude is a wealth of knowledge; I wish he was still around PF to lay down some wisdom. Overall my endurance was significantly improved even if my pace wasn't what I wanted. I finished strong with no cramps and shot well the whole time; it's hard to describe just how different this is from my first race 2 years ago. I curb stomped my previous performance and it feels good.

Other changes worth noting:

- I drank Pedialyte before the race, between my 10ks, and afterwards. It seemed to help.
- I used Altra King MT shoes. They had great grip and felt good even after 14 miles. I like them a lot
- My optic was a Nightforce NXS 2.5-10 with a Burris Fastfire 3 mounted on top. I love the RDS/NXS combo. It's so versatile. The ability to use either optic at any time is really nice- I've been surprised a few times by which one I went for instinctively.

So fast forward to today:
My regimen is the same right now. Lots of CrossFit, rucking, sprints, squats, lunges, planks, flutter kicks, push ups, burpees... I'm starting to add in long runs this week. I'll do a 7m hard trail run tomorrow. I'm also training for a GoRuck event in April... And May.

I'm really excited about a 50 mile JFK challenege ruck that I'll be doing in May. I'll start a new thread for that one.

Looking forward to seeing you guys at the race. 1 month to go!

[FOG]

I'm following another Mountain Tactical Institute program Monday through Friday, live-fire on Saturday and trail running on Sundays. My wife, daughter and I are doing a trail race next weekend. Weekend after that is a 2 gun match in Pawnee then it's on to Rockcastle. Waco RNG is in April and the inaugural Pawnee Night RNG is in May.

See y'all in a few weeks.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

[LOKNLOD]

inaugural Pawnee Night RNG is in May.


You mean the “face full of fucking brown crab fatbutted spiders” run? NOPE! :p


Seriously tho, with that schedule... get sum, dude!

[Default.mp3]

the inaugural Pawnee Night RNG is in MayThis needs more information.

[MRW]

I was behind on the training this week. Family and work kept me from getting out as much as I wanted to. I'm continuing to ruck with 20-30 lbs 2-3 days a week and runing distances 5-6 miles 2-3 days a week
I've added weight to the runs and it's been going well.

I've settled on Saucony Peregrines for the run. I usually use Brook's Cascades but the Peregrines fit better and offered more support through the run. With the extra weight, extra support is something I think I'll need. I'm behind on the rifle shooting as well. I'm still debating whether to get a LPV or try it with irons. Pistol shooting is going well. Work gives me some overlap with that type of training.

The wife is training for an upcoming half-marathon and a triathlon. That with family and work duties don't leave as much time as I would like. The training is fun. Looking forward to the race.

I'm also finalizing the race load-out. I'm planning on the HPG Kit Bag and Tarahumara to carry everthing. I'm going to carry the following.

IFAK
4 - 30 rd Rifle Mags
4 - 17rd Pistol Mags
Flashlight
Stopwatch
Rifle
Pistol

I'll probably skip hydration during the race. Anyone see anything I may be missing or don't need? My goal is to go as minimalist as possible with the gear. Stay safe and keep up the training. I'll see everyone in a few weeks.

[rjohnson4405]

...

I'll probably skip hydration during the race. Anyone see anything I may be missing or don't need? ...

Hearing protection? I'll probably just run muffs (usually double up) but they take a lot more room.

[rjohnson4405]

I love seeing other people getting it done, probably the opposite of littlejerry, running will be my strength but that's not saying much.

Did some shooting yesterday, handgun and rifle. Lots of moving in and out of positions which I don't practice often. Takes me a long time after moving to settle my gun and get a shot off. Any shooting I do in the near future will now include at least 3 or 4 steps before shooting. Need to do some of this in dry fire too so ensure I come in with a solid stance as being off balance was an issue.

Tried some 50 yard shooting on an 8" circle steel with my handgun to test the specific target on a pistol stage where you can switch to your rifle. I'll be switching to my rifle, I was inconsistent with a handgun, not to mention if my heart rate is up and I'm fatigued. 25 yard seems to be totally fine (something I normally practice). In the future, probably need to do more at 50.

Gear seems to be working out, but my consistency is very much affected by what I'm wearing. Loose shirts get in the way of pistol and mags more than I'd like. I really need to get better at being consistent despite my clothing. More offset on my holster or mag pouches would probably help, but I like everything being in line for comfort and makes throwing a jacket on over this mess easy and concealable.

My 100 yard rifle zero is now a bit better on the dot, still need to do more with the irons, but it was eating into my practice time too much. I'll do that another day. 300 yards may be where I take the full 3 minute penalty, but it'll be nice to know my limitations and that of my current gear. If I really get into this (I kind of am already hooked), a LPV may be in my future.

[FOG]

This needs more information.It's produced by Cody Allenbaugh, accomplished 3 gunner and designer of alot the Pawnee RNG stages.

As I understand it, itll be a 5k course consisting of 2 loops on the west side of the property. To negate the safety hazard of running on the county road in the dark, the stages traditionally held on the east side will not be used.

Two matches, one night is NV only and the other is flashlights and WML only. If you google Pawnee Twilight RNG, you should find more info. The rules and scoring are different than traditional RNG's.

He's holding a 2 gun/3 gun match on March 10 out there. That evening, some of us are doing a run through to try and iron out any issues prior to the actual match.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

[rjohnson4405]

Hold on to your butts, we're almost there.

Quick updates, I was in Denver a week ago, skiing 4.5 hours Thursday, 8 hours Friday, and then 3 hours of intense basketball Sunday with my buddy. So, I'm calling that high altitude training.

After all that fun, my left knee was a little sore so I lifted some throughout the week and didn't run until yesterday (Sunday). Farmers were out in the field so I opted to run without the rifle. Did 3 miles, in 28 min which was better and it definitely felt like I was having less trouble breathing. Will probably take it pretty easy until next Sunday, maybe do some treadmill runs that are easier on my knees just to be sure I'm ready.

Intended to get some shooting in but could not, hopefully with daylight savings I have a chance to get more shooting in this week before the event, maybe even the day before. When are you guys arriving, try and meet up Sat night? I will have to drive back after the fun Sunday.

[littlejerry]

Roll call!

I'm driving tomorrow. Should arrive around 6pm local time.

Hope to stop at a range on the way to confirm zero and run a few warm-up drills.

Dinner at the lodge tomorrow?

ETA: I haven't decided on Sunday night yet. Depending on how I'm feeling and how late the event goes I may hit the road or try and snag a room.

[MRW]

I have no idea when I'm getting in tomorrow. The wife and I managed to fit the race into a mini-vacation we're taking. We hit the road without a lot of planning other than to be at the race. If we don't get in early, I'll have to look you up at the check in. Definitely looking forward to it.

[rjohnson4405]

My first run and gun is in the books. It would have been worth it just to meet FOG, Mrs. FOG, and littlejerry. Great people!

First, I had a great time, and there were some awesome people there. Also some ... interesting ... people there.

I learned a lot about my fitness, gear, shooting ability, and mindset.

Analyzing the data:
I knew this before I saw the scores but my run was good, my handgun only shooting was good, and my rifle shooting sucked. This matched the priorities I made personally to prepare for the match, but I could have spent a lot more time on distance rifle shooting to help my score (and maybe an LPV). I had the 3rd overall run time even with a wrong turn. The single handgun only stage (not including the cave, which I had other issues with beyond shooting) I placed 1st (pistol-forum represent!). Besides those two I was somewhere between 20th and 34th for the other 6 stages.

So, overall I'm very happy to have placed 15th out of 70. However, I drew a great run time and had about perfect wait times, long enough to catch my breath, not so long as to tighten up. My fitness level and pistol shooting has been a focus of mine for some time so I'm encouraged to see that pay off. I can't wait to do another one but the Pawnee RNG is on my wife's birthday so that won't fly. These competitions really have re-energized my training plan that gets stagnant without competition because that's my personality. Having the second place runner behind me and catching up at wait times to talk smack really kept me in it.

Big thanks to FOG, Mrs. FOG, and littlejerry for including me in these relationships they had already built. And their advice and gear suggestions. I would have been out of ammo early and even more lost without them.

BEFORE:24584

AFTER:24585

Note that the pistol-forum.com t-shirt ONLY helps with handgun shooting. Maybe I can get pistol-forum and rifle-forum on there next time...

[littlejerry]

It was awesome meeting rjohnson4405 at the race! I'm glad more people are trying biathlons as the sport seems to be growing. As always it was great seeing Mr. and Mrs. FOG - they are great people that I wish I could see more often.

This was my first time at Rockcastle. They have a great facility with some really cool topography. The lodge was... nice enough. Not what I was expecting based on the photos online, but it wasn't the nastiest place I've ever been in either.

I was a little disappointed in my performance this time around. I've really been slacking off on pistol shooting over the past ~12 months and its starting to show. None of my pistol stages were particularly strong. In general I placed well on the rifle stages, both short and long range. Maybe next time I'll wear some PF gear to improve my pistol performance...

My run was a mixed bag. I finished 11 minutes behind FOG and a crazy 25 minutes behind rjohnson. When I was done I felt like I still had gas in the tank - way too much. It felt like I hadn't pushed myself hard enough during the run. There was also one part where I took a wrong turn - I was shifting mags around and completely missed a RNG sign directing me to turn left. I turned right and ran down a hill before I noticed the lack of paint/tape indicating the direction. I checked my GPS saw that it added 1:45, so not too terrible but still frustrating. All of my previous training had been for the Pawnee 15 mile run so my pace was just flat out wrong for this distance. Add in the fact that I've done almost zero distance running since the January race and I guess I shouldn't be surprised here.

Despite my slow run and mediocre pistol shooting I managed to place 10th overall. I was a little surprised by this - I thought surely I'd be in the 15-20 range.

My plan for next year(or season if they do a Fall run...) is to go for the full weekend so I can run the 5k and 10k. I'll actually plan on training for those distances this time and see if I can knock 10-15 minutes off that run time.

I'm also considering going back to basics for one of my upcomming runs and using my 20" Colt A2. As configured my 16" carbine weighs ~2 lbs more due to the optic and barrel profile. I really enjoy shooting irons in general and I think it would be fun to run the old-school rifle.


I'm really looking forward to the Riverbend 5k Run n Gun in North Georgia in 2 weeks, then the Pawnee 5/10/15k in July. I have to juggle some other travel for July but fingers crossed I'll be there.

[TC215]

Is there a list/calendar anywhere for these Run N Gun events? I'd like to give one a try. North Georgia wouldn't be too bad of a drive for me, but I hadn't heard of that event until the post above.

[FOG]

Great weekend, it was fun visiting and hanging with LJ and RJ, cool guys for sure. You guys did great! Arrived back in Oklahoma this afternoon, gonna take a few days off then get back after it.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

[FOG]

Is there a list/calendar anywhere for these Run N Gun events? I'd like to give one a try. North Georgia wouldn't be too bad of a drive for me, but I hadn't heard of that event until the post above.No, most events pop up on Facebook or other forums.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

[littlejerry]

Is there a list/calendar anywhere for these Run N Gun events? I'd like to give one a try. North Georgia wouldn't be too bad of a drive for me, but I hadn't heard of that event until the post above.

As FOG mentioned most of it is word of mouth.

I did find this website today while searching: https://texasrunandgun.org/calendar/

Not sure how comprehensive or well maintained it is

[NGCSUGrad09]

I cross posted this elsewhere, but here's my AAR of sorts from the River Bend Gun Club (RBGC) Run and Gun from this past weekend:

The 2018 River Bend Gun Club (RBGC) Run and Gun is over and it was a ton of fun. This was my first type of match like this, and it won’t be my last. The format is pretty much a 5K with guns and obstacles, so what’s not to like? I was fortunate enough to shoot well enough and run/walk fast enough to win 1st place.

https://www.theoutdoorstrader.com/attachments/20180331_170352-jpg.1573982/

https://www.theoutdoorstrader.com/attachments/20180331_153707-jpg.1573980/

The actual course was a 3.2 mile run around the hills and ranges of RBGC. Many thanks to the club and BoD for allowing us to do this! There were 5 stages and some obstacles thrown in to make it interesting along the way.

From the start at cowboy town, you ran down the hill and through the main entrance to MP2 for the first stage. After negotiating a rope obstacle (try not to get hung up!) you were greeted by RO’s who checked to make sure your rifle and pistol were clear and then explained the stage. Your pistol was placed in a box on the ground and your rifle inside the “helicopter” with you. On the beep, you loaded your pistol and engaged 8 steel plates, placed the pistol down and then loaded your rifle for 16 diamond steel plates at about 75 yards. All shooting was done inside the helicopter, remaining inside and not touching the ground outside. I shot the pistol from my knees, then engaged the rifle plates from a reverse kneeling position using the window as a brace. My scope was on about 2.5x, which allowed for enough magnification to place the circle of the reticle inside the plate, and still see targets easily to transition quickly. I had a couple extra shots on both pistol and rifle from trying to control breathing but finished the stage in 34.92 seconds. Once done, you cleared your rifle and pistol and took off to the next stage.

After MP2, you ran the main road to down by the creek, then ran along the creek and crossed it via some large boulders. With that done, you ran up-hill to the 600 yard line of the Hi-Power range where more RO’s were waiting. At that point, they cleared your guns again and gave the brief. Located at about 100, 300 and 600 yards were pieces of steel to be engaged with the rifle only. At the start signal, the 100 yard steel needed 3 hits, then you went prone to engage at 300 for 3 hits and finally 1 hit needed at 600. I shot at about the same 2.5x for the first two distances, where I had an extra shot or two standing and went for a very quick 3/3 at 300. The 600 I took I believe 5 shots to get a hit. I rushed the first shot, took a second good shot at a center hold, then bracketed left then right as I shot early and had no wind indicators.. and the nice muck absorbed my 5.56 rounds without any splash. I was at about 6x for this shot and made it holding about a half of a mil off the right edge. After I finished the RO said I missed left for my first couple shots. The lesson here when you can’t see, don’t keep holding the same shot! It just took me a couple shots until my rotation of bracketing got right. This took me 44.97 seconds to complete. Once again, they checked both pistol and rifle clear and off to Stage 3.

Stage 3 was a run down the hill from the Hi-Power range, then up the hill to the AP complex. This was a pistol only stage, which had 6 paper targets that needed 2x A zone hits to prevent a penalty. They were standing in a variety of positions and some had no-shoots in the way (which did incur penalties if hit). I ran this in 21.86 huffing and puffing, but had a clean run. After checking both guns were clear again, it was off to the longest running portion of about a mile and a half back to cowboy town. Along the way there was a low-crawl under some wires, and two A frames to go up and over on. The last 1/3 of this run was up the gradual hill from the main range area, then up the hill to cowboy town.

At cowboy town, Stage 4 was a blind stage that was pistol only. There was a door that had to be “breached” by kicking, pushing or ramming as you saw fit. Once through, there were 4 pistol targets outside the back of the shack that needed 2x A hits a piece. I ran this one in 12.74 from the unloaded and holstered start. From here, we ran down to the bottom of the hill for the last stage, which was rifle only. Here, you had an unloaded rifle start and then 5 targets from around a wall that needed either 2x A hits in the body, or 1x head shot a piece to neutralize. The targets were partially covered by “hard cover”, making for partial A zones. I opted to just go for head shots and fired 2 a piece more out of habit for an insurance shot each… which worked out to 14.11 seconds. After this you just had to run to the top of the hill to the finish line. The last 100 yards always seemed the toughest, but I ran it out as hard as I could. My total time with shooting, briefings, obstacles and all was 51 minutes and 11 seconds. Taking out shoot time my run time was 49 minutes and 2 seconds.

https://www.theoutdoorstrader.com/attachments/20180331_100102-jpg.1573979/
Post run with Bruce Perry the Match Director.
https://www.theoutdoorstrader.com/attachments/20180331_100048-jpg.1573978/

As I shot early, I didn’t have to wait on other shooters for any stages. If there was a backlog of shooters, you used a stopwatch to keep track of the wait time as directed by the Range Officers on the stage. This would then be taken off your run-time. On one hand, a few minutes might have been nice for some breathing time, but also having to wait would have been too much of a cool down to try to restart.

My run strategy since I’m not a regular was some running down-hill, jogging on the flat spots and speed walking on the up-hills. In practice it generally worked out that way, but I needed to do a few 20 yard or so walks in a few extra areas.

As you went along, you had to manage your ammo, mags and other kit. Every stage started unloaded, and there was no prep time at any stage other than the RO giving you the CoF. That meant trying to do some ammo management on the run and preparing before you got to the stage. My strategy here was a fresh mag for every stage (since stages were broadcast ahead of time), dumping partial mags into my bag and then loading my belt with the next stages worth of ammo as we went. I started with 2 pistol mags on the belt and one rifle mag since Stage 1 was both rifle and pistol. From there I dumped partial mags in my small sling bag and pulled out a fresh mag for the next stage as I came off the just completed stage. It worked well in that I had what I needed but didn’t have a ton on the belt while running. In review of rounds fired, I could have gotten by with one less mag each for rifle and pistol, but the weight penalty wasn’t too significant, and it gave me both insurance rounds and spare magazines should a mag get lost or suffer a severe malfunction.

One final note for matches with a variety of problems to solve... the key is consistency in doing most things well instead of having really good and really bad performances in different areas. In this case, I wasn’t the fastest runner, but I shot well enough to have a good blend that allowed me to finish 1st place.


I tried not to over-equip and carry too much gear, relying on making shots count and that I've got stuff that works. Here is my gear breakdown:

https://www.theoutdoorstrader.com/attachments/20180401_163049-jpg.1573983/

Rifle – AR-15 mutt gun that I’ve used for a variety of shooting games. At it’s heart is a 20” Proof Research carbon fiber barrel. It helps provide the weight and balance of a 16” barrel but allows for greater velocities and smoother operation than the shorter barrels. The rail is a BCM 15” which is light and slim, and everything else on the gun is fairly standard. Of importance to me is reliability and being well balanced, which this rifle is for me. The trigger is a Geissele Designated Marksman model tuned to my liking. A Blue Force Gear padded Vickers sling did the trick for shooting and running.

Optic – Nightforce ATACR 1-8x24 F1 with FC-DM reticle. A low power variable (LPV) scope is perfect for carbine shooting games with short and long shots due to the 1x magnification for close targets, up to 6-8x for longer shots. The durability and trust in my Nightforce is great when banging the scope around, low crawling with the rifle and more. The ATACR has ED glass, which offers a superb image that’s easy to use and stay behind. I had a solid 100 yard zero and knew my hold overs to 600 yards. While the ATACR is a lot of scope, good glass is a force multiplier that I’ll gladly drag along.

Pistol – Glock 17 Gen5. Simply, it works and it’s not too heavy. I’ve used Glocks for a long time and the newer Gen5s are a step up in my opinion. My holster of choice is the Safariland ALS holster, which offers retention while also being super fast on the draw.

Belt Kit – HSGI Slim Grip belt and pistol/rifle TACOs. I’ve been using this setup for a couple years now for a variety of things and I am super happy with it. The belt has a grippy rubber inside to keep it from sliding around but isn’t too thick and heavy. The TACOs are great as they can be used for nearly any rifle or pistol mag that I use. I cinched down the shock cords so that the mags wouldn’t come out even when hanging upside down.

Bag – I debated on this and found an old Kavu bag that I have which worked out to be perfect. This bag is a single strap bag, which I really liked. I didn’t have to take it off for anything but could slide it around to dump depleted mags and grab new ones, or negotiate obstacles. It wasn’t weighted down too heavily, so it didn’t really jostle around when running with the strap tight. I wanted to carry a little water, so I stuck in a bladder with a half-liter of water, and electrical taped the tube to the strap.

Notables on clothes – My pants were Kuhl Renegade Stealths which are a softshell material. I’ve used them for a variety of outdoor uses where it’ll be moist or wet out as they help repel water versus absorb it. Despite having to go through a little mud and water, they didn’t absorb any water at all. As for shoes, I used Salomon SpeedCross 4s which offered great traction throughout the course. With some Smartwool light wool socks I didn’t have any blister or hotspot problems with my feet.

Finally, RBGC was one of the places that I got started in competitive shooting, and it was great catching up with old friends that I hadn't seen in a while. Sorry if I didn’t get to meet up and talk to everyone. I’m already looking forward to the next one of these.

https://www.theoutdoorstrader.com/attachments/20180331_153946-jpg.1573981/

[rjohnson4405]

NGCSUGrad09 - way to go man! Real impressive for your first one especially. No penalties is smart shooting and doing it with little to no wait time isn't the easiest way.

600 is more than I can currently do with my gear, but your setup makes a lot of sense. Much specific training ahead of time?

[NGCSUGrad09]

NGCSUGrad09 - way to go man! Real impressive for your first one especially. No penalties is smart shooting and doing it with little to no wait time isn't the easiest way.

600 is more than I can currently do with my gear, but your setup makes a lot of sense. Much specific training ahead of time?

I'll be honest and feel a little bad that I didn't do more prep.

I'm not much a natural runner (get bored to easily), but my cardio time is one a rowing machine so I didn't totally die...however my legs are feeling it today!

As for shooting, I've got a mix of USPSA, 2 Gun/3 Gun and Precision Rifle background so none of the shooting was worrisome. I did check zero on the rifle and pistol, verified my drop data on the rifle and ran a few drills just to reacquaint myself with the carbine. As for pistol aside from checking POI with the chosen ammo I did a few unloaded start drills and didn't sweat it.

My belt kit is something I've run for a couple years now and I'm very happy with it. The Kavu bag didn't enter the equation until a few days prior to the event as I forgot I had it, but with some dry practice at home I was feeling pretty confident with it.

For future events, physical prep is the biggest component for me to work on to be successful. The shooting isn't too complicated, it's just being methodical and efficient while getting good hits. The running, thinking ahead, ammo management and working through being tired and potentially wet/muddy are the things that make it complicated.

[littlejerry]

I'll be honest and feel a little bad that I didn't do more prep.

I'm not much a natural runner (get bored to easily), but my cardio time is one a rowing machine so I didn't totally die...however my legs are feeling it today!

As for shooting, I've got a mix of USPSA, 2 Gun/3 Gun and Precision Rifle background so none of the shooting was worrisome. I did check zero on the rifle and pistol, verified my drop data on the rifle and ran a few drills just to reacquaint myself with the carbine. As for pistol aside from checking POI with the chosen ammo I did a few unloaded start drills and didn't sweat it.

My belt kit is something I've run for a couple years now and I'm very happy with it. The Kavu bag didn't enter the equation until a few days prior to the event as I forgot I had it, but with some dry practice at home I was feeling pretty confident with it.

For future events, physical prep is the biggest component for me to work on to be successful. The shooting isn't too complicated, it's just being methodical and efficient while getting good hits. The running, thinking ahead, ammo management and working through being tired and potentially wet/muddy are the things that make it complicated.

Good mindset and I agree on the challenge. You don't need a blazing fast GM level run on every(or really any) stage to place well. You need consistency and good pacing. It's an endurance event, not a sprint.

Great job on placing first. Sorry I was unable to meet you. This race went reasonably well for me. I focused a bit more on the running, somewhat to the detriment of my shooting(hitting a 600y target when your heart is pounding at 180bpm isn't easy!). My run time was better than usual and got me 8th overall.

Next RnG you're at I want to take a peak through your ATACR. I love my NXS 2.5-10, but it's not ideal for the short range stuff.

[NGCSUGrad09]

Here is my AAR of the Carolina Run and Gun from earlier this month. Sorry for the long length, but it was an event worth covering well.

http://practicalsharpshooter.com/aar-carolina-run-and-gun-8k/

[FOG]

Nice write up. There were some tough competitors there so 2nd place is oustanding.

Try to make a road trip to OK in January, it's always a big time.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[schüler]

Enjoyed the read, congrats on the suppressor win!
Here is my AAR of the Carolina Run and Gun from earlier this month. Sorry for the long length, but it was an event worth covering well.

http://practicalsharpshooter.com/aar-carolina-run-and-gun-8k/

[littlejerry]

Great job at Carolina! And thanks for letting us check out the ATACR!

It was an awesome match. Definitely the best shooting challenge I've seen at an RNG.

If someone could marry the distance/terrain of the Oklahoma 20k with the stage design of Carolina we'd have one hell of a match.

I went into this one completely unprepared (maybe a little over confident) and got my butt handed to me. I ran alright but shot terribly.

The Legion 10k at Rockcastle is next weekend and I hope to redeem myself, although I'm getting more than a little nervous about it with the high round count and blind stages.

[equin]

Finally got to do one of these - the WTF Biathlon near Waco, TX! What an awesome experience. Due to the massive amount of rains and flooding we’ve had in Texas, though, the event course was a mud-slogged mess. I won’t belabor anyone with a description of all the stages, as that should already be on their website (wtfbiathlon.com). Instead, I’ll try to post what I learned from the experience in the hopes it may help others wanting to try it, or at least wanting to try a different one under similar wet and muddy conditions.

Despite training carrying a backpack with 15-20 lbs, doing weights, push-ups and pullups and losing about 10 lbs of body weight in the process, I still wasn’t prepared! It was much harder than I thought it was going to be. Part of what I think added to my difficulty was that I had trained by jogging with 15-20 lbs of weight in a backpack. I was able to get up to 6 to 7 miles of jogging with the extra weight, even training in the rain sometimes. But for the event, I also used a battle belt with loaded mags and a pistol, with extra ammo, water and mags etc., to be carried in the backpack. I never trained with the battle belt fully loaded fearing neighbors or other folks would call the cops about a crazy guy running around with all that stuff on. Running with the loaded battle belt threw off my stride and dug a bit into my hips, making my run effort more difficult.

I completely failed the obstacle at the first stage. First obstacle required one to climb a forward slanting, A-framed, 8 to 10 ft chain link fence. Easy enough, I thought. I’ve climbed chain linked fences before. All the other competitors before me at the stage easily did it. I also trained doing pull ups with added weight on my back. Even so, I never could get over the fence! My “running” Garmont boots were slipping from the mud and could never get a foot hold or “ toe” hold in the chain link. So although I was able to get up to the top using arm strength, I couldn’t use leg strength to get up far enough to be able to swing my body up and over, especially with the weight of all my gear. Pride got the better of me, as I kept trying and trying, to no avail and exhausting me until I finally gave up and asked to take a time penalty. By then, I had used up too much time and only had little time to try to complete the shooting part of the stage, which I also failed to do. I also managed to cut my finger on the fence somehow because I was bleeding all over the place, except at the time I couldn’t tell from where. I brought a rag to wipe clean the scope and rifle in case of a mud smear, so I used that to wipe off the blood. I should’ve brought a small IFAK, though, as I later got the cut dirty with mud and muddy water throughout the remainder of the event. Lessons learned.

One of the obstacles right before stage 3 required crawling through a corrugated culvert. I had put on some cheap elbow and knee athletic wrap/braces, which worked great for this obstacle. Due to all the mud in the culvert, I tried my best to keep the muzzle free from getting a mud clot in the muzzle. I had placed a condom over it before I started, but later lost it somewhere along the course. Sure enough, I still managed to get some mud in the muzzle break cage. There were so many puddles around, though, I was able to clean most of it off in one of them. If there’s ever a next time, I’ll need to figure out what I can place over the muzzle that won’t fall off.

After the muddy culvert obstacle came the first rifle stage. While waiting at the stage, I tried to take off my slinged rifle to get to my backpack holding a cleaning rod. I was hoping to clean out or at least push out any mud that might’ve gotten in the bore. But the sling got caught in the ear plug cord around the back of my neck, pulling them off. And in so doing, the plugs got real dirty with all the mud I managed to accumulate on my body. Hoping to wipe it off with the same rag I used to wipe off the blood earlier, I discovered the rag was now a wet, muddy mess. So I pulled out some extra foam plugs I had in my pack, the expanding kind you roll in your fingers to then place in your ear canal. Except my hands and fingers were all muddy, even though I had been wearing gloves, and there was no clean, dry piece of clothing left for me to wipe off my hands. So I just stuck the dirty foam plugs in my ears and hoped for the best. What I should’ve done was place the rag in a ziploc type plastic bag and maybe pack some extra diaper wipes in a plastic bag, too. Another lesson learned when dealing with wet, muddy conditions.

Stage 5 required one to climb a tree and get in position to make some long distance shots. I began climbing and later discovered I climbed from the wrong side of the tree, making it difficult, if not impossible, to get into the “seated” position in the tree (a sawed off branch stump). By then I was semi dangling with all my gear, unnecessarily expending more energy and getting even more tired. I had to climb halfway down and start over again on the other side of the tree. By then, I used up too much time and couldn’t finish the stage within the allotted 3 minute time frame. What I should’ve done is take a little time before hand to study the tree and the best way to get to the seated position instead of just climbing straight up at the “go” command. Another lesson learned.

The last obstacle had us carry some super heavy jugs about 30 or so yards, maybe longer? I had practiced with carrying 45 lb dumbbells about 15 yards, not realizing the jugs’ actual weight and distance to carry. Maybe because I was already exhausted and carrying all my gear, but the jugs felt way heavier than 45 lbs. So for next time, I’ll practice with heavier dumbbells at longer distances.

The gear I used worked well for the most part, but there were a few minor mishaps. I had built a lower Stag Arms AR paired with a fully assembled Stag upper with a chrome-lined 16” 1:7 barrel. I installed a Burris’s TAC 30 1-4x optic and used Hornady ELD Match 73 gr .223. It’s the first and only AR I’ve ever shot, and I was surprised at how well it did despite how dirty and muddy it got and my inexperience with rifle shooting in general. My practice range only goes out to 200 yards, but I was able to hit the 500 yard gong twice, furthest I’ve ever shot in my life, and all with fogged up eye pro and mud-smeared optics I had to wipe off with a dirty finger. Can’t say enough about this setup!

I used a Blue Force Gear unpadded VCAS sling. It’s strong and held up well while dragging it across the steel culvert. But the mud and puddles I crawled through also got the adjustable tab mechanism wet and muddy, making it difficult to slide up and down to adjust. Not sure what I could’ve done to prevent that from happening or if a different type or brand of adjustable sling would’ve worked better under those conditions.

For the pistol I used a Glock 34 and Fiochi 115 gr ammo. As a relative newbie to the shooting sports, my handgun skills are poor, and the results showed at every pistol stage. I timed out at every stage pistol stage. I know I need lots more practice, but even though I missed a lot, I still had fun trying!

I used a surplus Army holster for the Glock. Not sure what it’s proper designation is, but it’s supposed to work for 1911s and Beretta 92FS fullsized guns. I read elsewhere Glock 34s also fit. It almost completely covers the whole pistol with its cover flap, which is what I wanted to protect it from the mud. In that regard, it worked really well. The Glock was surprisingly mud-free for the most part. One of its flaws, though, is the difficulty in threading it through my belt, a nylon 1.5” Uncle Mike’s belt with the metal buckle and velcro. When the belt is dry, it’s a little hard threading it through, but once wet and muddy, I guess the moisture and mud tend to slightly thicken the belt even more, making it impossible to thread through again. Reason I had to re-thread it is its other flaw. When sitting in the car stage, the metal clasps I had threaded through the belt somehow came undone, despite how difficult it is to unhook them by hand. Not sure how that happened, but definitely something to consider for next time there may be a stage where I have to draw while sitting in a car.

I also used an HSG battle belt with one of those 1.75” nylon inner belts with a cobra buckle. They worked great and held up to me scraping them across 10 to 20 yards of corrugated steel while crawling through the mud-filled culvert. On the battle belt I had a Condor ammo pouch with the little bungee cords that holds 3 30-round pmags on one side a cheap, Academy brand nylon and velcro dual pistol mag holder on the other side. They all got drug through the steel culvert and mud and held up great.

My backpack was a relatively small, Drago brand one from Academy’s “tactical bag” aisle near its firearm section. I also have a Hill People Gear Tarahumara pack I thought of using. It’s a great pack and lighter than the Drago backpack. But for whatever reason, I can’t seem to get it to fit comfortably while running with 20 lbs in it. The straps attaching to the shoulder harness kept loosening while bouncing up and down on my back with the added weight. It also doesn’t have a waist belt, which the Drago pack has, which would probably help keep it from bouncing along my lower back while running. I’ve thought of trying to jerry-rig a makeshift waist belt for it, but just haven’t gotten around to it. But for less than half the price, the Drago pack worked great and held up to the muddy mess I put it through, even if it was made in China.

In the pack, I carried extra ammo loose in some bags (think I had way too much weighing me down) and two bottles of water. With temps in the 60’s and overcast, heat stroke wasn’t a concern. But I probably should’ve carried much less ammo and maybe 2 more bottles of water.

One last thing. We were handed our own stopwatches and timecards connected to the stopwatch cord with a metal clip. Not sure when and where, but somewhere before stage 3 I lost my timecard. I should’ve placed it in my back pocket or somewhere else safer - another lesson learned. Not sure what my actual time was, considering the wait times at the stages, but being my first one with the only goal of finishing it, I’m just glad I finally did one of these. Took me about 4 hours and 10 minutes total to complete, minus whatever my wait times were. It was hard as heck and I was glad to have finally crossed the finish line, but I’m hooked and already thinking about next year!

[littlejerry]

Equin, That's a great write up! Glad you were able to finally go to one. Sounds like you enjoyed yourself and learned a lot along the way. I think that's the whole point of these races: challenge yourself, have some fun, and learn what does and doesn't work.

At my first RnG I carried a ton of stuff. The concept of 6-7 miles seemed a lot farther than it really is. I was worried about running out of ammo, clearing jams, gear coming loose, etc. I've learned over time to carry less and less. For me that means 1.5-2x the ammo requirement, a rag, extra pair of foamies, and ~12oz of water per 10k. Unless it's hot, then I go with 2L.

I found suspenders work wonders for running with gear on your belt. I think mine are HSGI. I believe they were only $30. Money well spent.

I had a similar experience with the Vickers sling and mud. Once it was caked on I could barely adjust it. Had to scrub it at home and even then it's still much harder to use. Now I use a Pig SMS sling(designed by SLG). It uses an adjuster liked what you would see on a backpack strap. This does mean it has a tail that hangs off, but in the last 6 or 7 RnGs I've never had it snag on anything, or while hunting. The design gives you MUCH more leverage to adjust at the cost of having a tail.

If you're hungry for more I highly recommend the OK Run n Gun in Pawnee. Registration for the Jan race should open soon. There will probably be a few PF guys there, myself included. The 20k challenge is really cool and unique to OK.

Hope to see you(or any other PFers) at the Jan 2019 OK RnG

ETA:. OK registration is open. I'm running the 20k.

[equin]

Thanks for the great info, LittleJerry. Your thread helped inform and motivate me to try my first run and gun biathlon, and I'm glad I did. I've seen pictures of the Pawnee Run and Gun, and it looks to be just as physical and technical as the WTF biathlon here in Texas. I'd love to try it! I don't think I can make any in the Spring, though, due to my work schedule, but I see they offer them at other times of the year. It'd be great to meet you and some of the others on here to put a face to the folks that motivated me to finally try one and get hooked on this sport.

[texasplinker]

I just competed in the Toys For Toys RnG at Blue Grass Sports man's League in Wilmore KY. Over the last two years I've run nearly ten of these things. What a blast!

Jerry, I too was at Legion. That match was a beast!

Upcoming on feb 23 is the Heartbreak RnG at BGSL in wilmore again. Depending on where you are it may be a little closer or a little further. But last years race out there was a real challenge!

https://practiscore.com/heartbreak-run-n-gun/register

[Nick710]

Did the Lead Farm RnG this past Saturday.

Made it home safely, got some rest and finally got a chance to get my kit all cleaned up. That sticky Missouri mud, once dried, can be tough to remove. My poor Salomon Speed Assault shoes sure are taking a beating, but they are holding up well.

Matt's matches have proven to be made for marksman and trail runners, and this one proved no different. Compounding the trail running was the 1.5" of rain received the night before the match. The ground was saturated, every low spot had standing water and every little creek was running full blast. One didn't even try to keep your feet dry on the trail. Wouldn't matter anyway as some of the obstacles had over knee deep water. You were going to get wet!

The morning started out pretty nice, but clouds moved in and a brisk South breeze started blowing, making your waiting time darn right chilly (especially having been soaked). But everyone persevered and made the best of it.

Lead Farm RnGs are generally high round count matches with lots of longer distance rifle steel. Couple that with some very challenging pistol stages and you have an interesting and stimulating match. There were a total of 6 stages, with most stages being a combination of rifle and pistol. This match did feature a rifle only and a pistol only stage. Rifle targets were anywhere from about 100 yards out to 600 with most being between 150 and 400 yards. Most targets were steel, but there was a mixture of some paper for both rifle and pistol. I believe the longest pistol shot was around 30 yards or so.

Total round count was advertised at 76 rifle and 66 pistol. I think the rifle round count was reduced a little due to the modification of a couple stages. I shot 78 rifle rounds and 74 pistol rounds.

As with most of Matt's matches, shooting positions varied with none being what I call standard positions. You had one stage where you had to shoot 2 pistol plate racks from a sideways prone (while lying in some cold, rain-soaked saw dust); another stage had you shooting rifle from a "tower" made from what looked like overgrown milk cartons stacked about 7 feet high (which you had to crawl up to get inside it).

Trail markings were made with colored tape and once again, Matt uses the ingenious "token" system to keep you honest. Shooters were issued 5 tokens and along the trail were receptacles for you to place your tokens in. Failure to put a token in a receptacle resulted in a substantial time penalty.

The trail itself was difficult enough, but made more so by the muddy, slippery conditions. The terrain at the Lead Farm is not flat and level, but varies in each little drainage and creek. There were lots of sliding marks going down and up each of these little elevation changes, making a physically demanding trail that much harder. There were a couple man-made obstacles along the way. A low bridge that you had to crawl under and a culvert that you had to crawl through, both running with lots of water; and a slackline thrown in for good measure.

For the most part, the match went very smoothly. There was one issue that caused quite a bit of back up at a couple stages. There was a group of 5 officers from an area SWAT team that all ran together. Combined, they took a lot of time to shoot each of the stages, for everyone behind these guys, it caused considerable delay and wait times. Matt was made aware of this and will initiate a rule next time to prevent this from happening. Otherwise, all went very well.

There were some great shooters and athletes at this event. There was a group of military guys from a local reserve group that come out and a few family members. I've said this before, but it bears repeating. These events attract some of the best folks you'll ever meet, from all walks of life. You need help figuring out a stage, just ask; you forget a piece of kit, just ask someone; you want to know what kind of optic is best, just ask and you'll get several replies. To me, that's the most enjoyable aspect of RnGs, the people. Matt and his staff of RO's did an excellent job, designed some tough stages and made a very challenging trail. A big thanks to Matt, his family and all the RO's that helped put this event on. I know I'll be anxious to attend the next Lead Farm RnG!

[gtae07]

Getting serious now about entering the RBGC race in August; wish it was a bit longer though. I've lost 40lb since August and I'm starting to hit the workouts hard. Need to keep working on the pistol (as always) and start shooting rifle again for the first time in years.

Trying to figure out gear selection right now.

Still under no illusions of finishing near the top but by God, I will finish.