NPE with a Fullsize Auto?

[Captain]

I'm starting a new job soon and they are an NPE (corporate policy, no metal detectors or anything). While a year from now I'll have the disposable income to buy a new gun - for now, I don't. I have my P30 or my wife's M&PC (and she won't be happy if I steal it from her) for the foreseeable future.

I currently use a JMCK AIWB holster with my P30. I wear button up shirts untucked and an undershirt behind the gun - but occasionally when I reach up the clips and/or gun show - but no one cares where I'm at as I'm one of many who carry.

Since my current wardrobe is okay at the new place what I am going to attempt is to use a custom made JMCK tuckable AIWB for my P30, which I will tuck my undershirt over and then leave my over shirt untucked.

Has anyone else tried carrying in a NPE with a fullsize/compact gun? What worked for you? What didn't?

[45dotACP]

Sounds like you have a decent setup for now. JM makes good holsters and it sounds like your environment is pretty decent, in spite of being NPE.

Though, I would suggest testing the waters of marital bliss and stealing the M&P9c. How bad could it be living with an angry woman for a year? ;)

[Captain]

It is better to live in a corner of the housetop than in a house shared with a quarrelsome wife.

[LittleLebowski]

Done this with a Shaggy and a G17. No problems but I was always wearing an untucked shirt. AIWB works admirably well in an NPE.

[SLG]

If your job is at stake, you might try thunderwear for a bit and see if it works for you. Even with the grip just above the belt line, (or below, as designed) it can be much lower profile than any holster.

[Captain]

If your job is at stake, you might try thunderwear for a bit and see if it works for you. Even with the grip just above the belt line, (or below, as designed) it can be much lower profile than any holster.

I'm pretty sure it's a fireable offense, though I'll know for sure on the first day. Does Thunderwear work with something like a P30?

[TGS]

I'm pretty sure it's a fireable offense, though I'll know for sure on the first day. Does Thunderwear work with something like a P30?

Sure does.

There's an HKPRO member who carries his USP45 (fullsize, not compact) in a SmartCarry.

You could also check out the JJ Racazza 5-0 holster, if it's still in production. There's a thread on it here, IIRC.

[GardoneVT]

I used a Comp-Tac IWB setup with velcro straps and velcro lined gunbelt. Vis a vis the P-30 I kept an undershirt between me and the gun, and tucked my button up shirt around the gun. Wore it to a company meeting and never got made.

Pros-no visible holster clips, allows carry of full size gun .
Cons-access to the gun is denied as soon as a coat is donned, and morning prepration takes longer as the velcro fixes the gun in place without any room for adjustment later.Eventually the velcro clips accumulate debris and require replacement.

[xmanhockey7]

If I were you I'd keep the current set-up and just make sure the shirt doesn't come up too high. Going up a size may help. I have the JM AIWB tuckable and I don't see it as something I'd want to use with a full size gun.

[Clay]

Smartcarry.

[Colt191145lover]

I personally don't like the smartcarry with a full size gun being im on the small side 5'8 150 pounds . I carry a Walther PPS in mine ... That being said, I have a friend about the same size as me and he carries a P30 no problem. It is a comfort issue more than a concealability issue for me YMMV. Either way the smartcarry is great for NPE carry.

[Odin Bravo One]

I carried a P30 in a JRC holster for a few months in a NPE. Job wasn't really at stake, but it concealed well for a variety of activities. It's not just the belt & holster, but also the clothes......which is what made it successful for me when I really really didn't want people around me to know I was carrying.

[ToddG]

If your job is at stake, you might try thunderwear for a bit and see if it works for you. Even with the grip just above the belt line, (or below, as designed) it can be much lower profile than any holster.


I'm pretty sure it's a fireable offense, though I'll know for sure on the first day. Does Thunderwear work with something like a P30?

I've carried a P30 in environments that weren't particularly NPE but in which I didn't want anyone to notice a gun by chance and where I had to tuck in my shirt. I used a Smart Carry and it worked admirably. Ideal? No. But if a quick reach for a box on the top shelf could get you fired, I'd opt for the unideal over the unemployed.

[JDM]

I carry a P228, magazine and Clinch Pick in an NPE everyday. I use a JMCK AIWB and his single mag pouch

Most days I wear scrubs, so concealment isn't a particularly difficult task. However for about three weeks last year, and once or twice a month I wore/wear that business casual uniform you described. I don't really do anything different than I would when I'm in scrubs. Maybe ditch the extra magazine as I find it harder to conceal than the gun, but that's it.

Be cognizant of what shows when you lift your arms up, and avoid button up shirts without a square hem.

Can you substitute polo shirts for the button up? That would be a big help.

[SLG]

To my mind, carrying in an NPE is not so much about concealment, as it is making the gun disappear. My full size guns are completely concealed no matter where I am, but if someone bumps into me or hugs me, it is possible that they will feel my gun. I actively work to prevent that, but not everything can be prevented. In an NPE, I will not let that happen, so the Smart Carry is a better way to go for me.

[Captain]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Sounds like a smartcarry is in my future. Any practical difference between smartcarry and thunderwear?

As for shirts, I'm in an odd size range. 6', 275 with a chest still (marginally) bigger than the waist. 2XLT fits right in the shoulders/chest/waist and half the time are long enough to not ride up too far. Half the time they're not.

[Default.mp3]

Just FYI, this thread (http://www.totalprotectioninteractive.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15379) has a lot of very, very interesting posts when it comes to handling NPEs. Well worth signing up for if you're not already a member on TPI.

[Captain]

Thanks! I had seen a couple references to TPI, but didn't know what it was.

[GJM]

Not to reignite another thread, but I know several people who successfully carried a LW Commander in a NPE. They Mexican carried it, either condition two or three, behind the hip, while wearing suit and tie, often with the jacket removed. The pistol was worn under the dress shirt, with the shirt tucked in, although the shirt was slightly bloused. It was secure and concealed. It was also slow to bring into action, but that was a reasonable trade off.

[xmanhockey7]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Sounds like a smartcarry is in my future. Any practical difference between smartcarry and thunderwear?

As for shirts, I'm in an odd size range. 6', 275 with a chest still (marginally) bigger than the waist. 2XLT fits right in the shoulders/chest/waist and half the time are long enough to not ride up too far. Half the time they're not.

When I was considering Smartcarry vs. Thunderwear the general consensus I found online was that Smartcarry was better. I personally think you need a smaller gun for them especially in a NPE, but even if you go with a smaller gun later, you can still use the same holster. Also one thing I found with Smartcarry was that the strap tended to ride up in back, so I would tuck my shirt over the Smartcarry except in front where the gun was.

[okie john]

Just FYI, this thread (http://www.totalprotectioninteractive.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15379) has a lot of very, very interesting posts when it comes to handling NPEs. Well worth signing up for if you're not already a member on TPI.

There are a lot of different definitions of NPE, from "Mossad operative carrying in Hamas-controlled territory" to "executive carrying where he/she could lose a six-figure salary in an industry where he/she has 15-20 years of experience and can't afford to start over". The TPI thread covers the gamut.

One thing that people don't think of in an office-type NPE is how often and intently women check out their male coworkers. A lot of people who carry are pretty conservative in terms of their personal lives. They're not checking out members of the opposite sex, and they often assume that their co-workers behave the same way. But that's not how it works. For some people, there is no such thing as the don't look/don't touch area. To put it another way, you know how when things get slow, some men eyeball the not-very-attractive women at work and imagine how they'd look in a compromising position(s)? Well, women do the same to men, and that's when a guy wearing a pistol is going to get busted.

Don't ask me how I know.


Okie John

[JHC]

To my mind, carrying in an NPE is not so much about concealment, as it is making the gun disappear. My full size guns are completely concealed no matter where I am, but if someone bumps into me or hugs me, it is possible that they will feel my gun. I actively work to prevent that, but not everything can be prevented. In an NPE, I will not let that happen, so the Smart Carry is a better way to go for me.

I like this. I view it as a scale from "covered" to "concealed" to "disappeared".

In my case I find a G17 easy to cover and functionally be concealed if running errands around strangers on a Saturday. However working in close proximity to the same people all day and engaging naturally in activities that would be no more than covered.

A VG2 with a 26 or 19 has served this purpose very well with the SmartCarry in reserve for tucked in times. I've never given it a try with the grip above the belt but I shall, very soon.

[Captain]

The TPI thread has been very helpful so far (150 posts in or so). It has caused me to think through the fact that working closely with people every day means little things that I'd let go (because everyone here knows I carry) will eventually get noticed and will be a much bigger deal when they are.

[Nephrology]

Just my 0.02 USD, but I would not risk my job by carrying with a FS auto. My current work environment (And likely all future work environments to come) does not permit concealed carry, so I don't. I have the luxury of working and living in one of the safest cities in America, of course, so my thoughts might change if I relocate to an institution in a less desirable part of the country. I would carefully consider the risk/reward ratio specific to your circumstances.

In other NPEs, I usually carry a J-frame AIWB. On my body, the full-size (or even compact) autos simply don't conceal anywhere close to well enough for me to be comfortable carrying with them in an NPE. YMMV. Best of luck.

edit: as for all-fabric holsters like Smartcarry, I have had best like with smaller and lighter firearms. Have had success with that with a J frame.

[Captain]

I appreciate the warning, but as someone who has witnessed violence in what was supposed to be an extremely safe place (which is why I even sought out carrying a gun), I have weighed the risk and reward - and since people are f'd up crazy mofos anywhere you go (and I'll work in a building with several thousand of them), I will continue to carry.

I agree a smaller gun is the goal (likely the PPS as it's controls are similar to the P30 and I shoot one well) and once a few of those fat bonuses roll in (and my wife has a new car and a new house and a new dog), it'll be on the list. Likely by Christmas - but for now I gotta roll with what I've got.

[Colt191145lover]

Personal Choice for sure . I just always Figured it would be easier to find a new job than my wife to find a funeral home.
Stay safe

[Dropkick]

view it as a scale from "covered" to "concealed" to "disappeared".
But not to be confused with cover verses concealment.
;)

[ubervic]

Fascinating subject and thread.

While most people can mingle freely among strangers while carrying FS concealed, it's quite a different dynamic when working closely among known contacts on a daily basis while carrying concealed. Stuff happens among known contacts---hugging, back-slapping, even horseplay---that simply does not happen when strolling among unknowns in public, and it seems to me that known contacts are much more likely to become aware of any limitations to a coworker's posture or physicality that an unknown would never notice or comment on.

I work in an NPE and do not carry there. But I do realize that this is a conscious decision that I will be less prepared, or unprepared, in the event of a life-threatening incident, no matter how likely or unlikely.

[45dotACP]

In retrospect...I can't really suggest the OP take any advice I offered, as I don't carry, and I work in a hospital in IL and the consequences of being busted with a firearm are enough to make being alive and facing the repercussions less preferable than some of the other options....Of course, you could tell that to the nurse who suffered a collapsed lung after a patient brutally beat her with the bed rail from his room...

Also, scrubs conceal nothing...so I'm required to get along with a 60 megawatt smile and my red headed Irish charm to get me out of bad scrapes. :D

Oddly, recent studies have confirmed that nearly 60% of non-fatal workplace violence incidents take place in a healthcare setting. Guess it's a good thing I try to keep up on my Jiu-Jitsu along with the aformentioned grin and Irishness...

[Clay]

Earlier I gave a recommendation for Smartcarry. This is my default answer for hiding a large pistol. I spend quite a bit of time in NPE's, where being caught means jail time and/or job loss. Not the same as getting shot, but enough that I certainly weigh the odds each time. Sometimes I go with a S&W 442 in a Galco or Renegade ankle holster, and other times I go with just a knife. Neither are perfect options, but they offer great concealment.

If I worked in a hospital I might look at the various "tactical" pens as well.

[Captain]

Finally finished the TPI thread... Now I'm thinking I should have read that before I ordered the new holster and belt... It really, really looks like Smart Carry is the way I need to go. People in offices seem to be way more observant that I would have given them credit for.

[JDM]

Purported Thunderwear at Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Thunderwear-Holster-Underwear-Concealment-Glock/dp/B00AZPDHK0/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1426564003&sr=8-3&keywords=thunderwear)

I could not find a legitimate Smartcarry on Amazon. :(

[Clay]

Order Smartcarry direct. They're great to deal with.

[BehindBlueI's]

If your job is at stake, you might try thunderwear for a bit and see if it works for you. Even with the grip just above the belt line, (or below, as designed) it can be much lower profile than any holster.

It's not the fastest, but its probably the most concealed. If anyone DOES notice a bulge in your crotch region, they likely aren't going to ask about it.

I worked IT for a few years after the military but before LE. I carried a 5" 1911 in it and was never made. Pleated pants help too, while they aren't high fashion they give you more room and break up any lines better.

[Colt191145lover]

Order Smartcarry direct. They're great to deal with.

this! They have fast shipping too .

[GardoneVT]

Some other relevant ideas for NPE carry.

Having hauled around a Beretta 92 in a major telecommunications company for about a year in various corporate environments, ill just offer the following.

Being explicitly made-Never. That includes one-on-one contact with local Law Enforcement .

Close calls-a few.
A last minute twist of my waist saved my job when my female boss went in for a surprise hug.
Bending over Should Not Be Done. I dont care how badly your coworker wants you to check the surge protector .
Sitting down as a process should be done carefully . Hard backed chairs and concealed metal handguns make a unique sound when the two meet!

Lastly-social management is crucial. When I clocked in, I left my "gun knowledge" at home. When on shift I was Mr. Chicago Liberal.

-guns? Whaa?? You mean the black thingies that go boom?! I dunno....what do you think about them, Mr Coworker?Area Sales Manager/Regional VP ?

Do NOT be That Guy who has to pipe up when the office chatters about some firearm related event in the media. Stay out of the mix, or if you can stomach it throw in some anti-gun soundbytes. If your coworkers think of you as a guy who likes "common sense gun control" , no one's gonna wonder what those black clips are at your 4 o'clock . If you have a copy of "100 Years of the 1911" G&A issue sitting on your desk and always yak about range times and your latest drills, dont be shocked when people draw the logical conclusion you might be carrying one too.

At my last job, there was a coworker who knew a bit about guns and loved to pratter about his collection and his military days. I intellectually ached to join his convos-but instead I had to play Chicago Liberal stereotype, because I was carrying. Id just play noncomittal- "A 1911 is a 45 Automatic, you say ? Learn something new I guess" .A fortunate decision on my part when it turned out our boss was anti-gun.

[Captain]

That's a good word Gardone. I am fortunate to be in a rather gun friendly location overall, but I will be adjusting my whole wardrobe so I don't look like the outdoorsy gun guy - which is basically what I look like now - so I am definitely planning on being more gray-man at the new place.

Quick update - got the belt and holster order cancelled and went Smart Carry. My wife also mentioned (completely unprompted by me) that since she doesn't carry (keeps putting off her licensing) that she's fine using my P30 in the house and at the same time my mom said she hates her new Shield because she can't rack the slide... so a little trade over lunch tomorrow and it looks like I'll be carrying an M&P Shield in a Smart Carry. I don't think I'll have any problems making that disappear.

[Clay]

GardoneVT - excellent advice. It's the little things that make a big difference.
Just to reiterate - the key with Smartcarry is the pants. Don't give up on it without trying different pants and playing with the holster position.

[xmanhockey7]

That's a good word Gardone. I am fortunate to be in a rather gun friendly location overall, but I will be adjusting my whole wardrobe so I don't look like the outdoorsy gun guy - which is basically what I look like now - so I am definitely planning on being more gray-man at the new place.

Quick update - got the belt and holster order cancelled and went Smart Carry. My wife also mentioned (completely unprompted by me) that since she doesn't carry (keeps putting off her licensing) that she's fine using my P30 in the house and at the same time my mom said she hates her new Shield because she can't rack the slide... so a little trade over lunch tomorrow and it looks like I'll be carrying an M&P Shield in a Smart Carry. I don't think I'll have any problems making that disappear.
That's awesome. I think the Shield is the perfect size gun for carrying in a Smartcarry with dress pants.

[BobLoblaw]

At my workplace, they don't give a policy for or against carrying. Our top dawg is a known pro-gunner and if the question is raised, he'll have to answer so no one asks. With some of the areas we're required to travel in this region (white ghettos), I'd be surprised if anyone went without at least a gun in the car. Having said that, I'm sure there are some corporate ninnies who would cringe knowing this information. Mum is the word if you don't know whether they hunt or fish.

[Captain]

Many years ago, when I was first a father - I think my daughter was 8 months old or so - I witnessed violence in a safe place. I worked at a church in super white bread suburbia - highest per capita mean income county in the state, moms have nannies so they can sit and sip lattes all day - stuff like that. The kind of place where nothing ever happens except kids drinking and parents buying weed.

This particular afternoon, I was putting my daughter in the car in the parking lot at work. There was a crowd of people standing around because a junior high girl's basketball league was getting ready to meet. The coach pulls in and a rusted out Trans-Am (definitely in the wrong neighborhood) comes screaming into the lot behind him. The coach parks, the Trans-Am parks next to him across three spots, pointing his car at the driver's side door of the coach. The coach is clearly trying to ignore the guy who hops out of the front seat and is screaming at him. He gives in and walks over to the guy, engaging him unnecessarily. Upon seeing this, a parent of one of the girls walks over and tries to calm the situation down. When he walks up he steps between them the driver of the Trans-Am says, "I'll show you how I deal with my problems" and reaches back in his car. The parent that walked over sees him pull out a gun, draws his own and fires ~5 shots before the guy can turn around. Trans-Am falls, but then tries to pick up his gun again, parent fires three more shots and the guy is down permanently. The whole thing took maybe 90 seconds. Turns out from talking to the guy who did the shooting (who was actually a friend of a friend) that the whole thing happened because the coach cut off the Trans-Am driver while trying to make his exit on the highway.

During all of this, I am attempting to get my daughter in the car and out of the parking lot as soon as possible. I had finally gotten her buckled in and was getting into the car when shots were fired. In that moment, I knew that no matter where you are or how safe you think you are - you and you alone have to be responsible for your safety and protection. There was no chance police would ever have arrived in time.There is very little chance that if I had been in the coach's shoes I would have been able to stop a guy with a gun with my pocket folder. I began carrying immediately and took my CCW class that week. I carry always, no matter what. My kids and my wife are too important to do otherwise.

While it's no active shooter situation in the office, it drove home the point that people are frickin' nuts and if you work with a lot of them, you should be prepared to deal with crazy at any time.

[Rich]

HK P30S/Gen 2 APL IWB at 3:00 using a custom light IWB holster Tony/ JM made me. Tshirt for cover .
BTW I don't tuck my Tshirts in .

The P30 height 5.43 is as far as I can go.
Believe it or not my P229 height was a lot easier to hide. Sig Claims height of P229 =5.4

[Odin Bravo One]

I lie to my employer all the time..............no one so far has taken issue with it.

[JDM]

I moved the morality conversation (as best I could) to this thread : https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?15417-Morality-of-carrying-a-gun-in-an-NPE

Please keep this thread on topic.