Flashlight dazzle?

[45dotACP]

So, I've been working on my low light shooting techniques with my Surefire G2 and I'm curious about the use of a flashlight to disorient/dazzle someone's night vision. I guess I'm mostly curious about whether or not it is something that can be relied upon to tip the scales in my favor when someone is advancing on me when it's dark?

What sort of light output is enough to disrupt someone's vision (if that's a thing) and what's considered overkill? I like my Surefire because 65 lumens seems nice and sensible without giving up much in illumination, but some WML's I've been looking at for my Glock put out something like 650 lumens...does that have any advantage/disadvantage in the scenario that involves me in a smallish apartment with light colored walls? Because I'm not too crazy about blinding myself at the same time.

[Chuck Haggard]

A bright light to a person's eyes, especially in low light after they have dark adapted, can significantly effect their vision. Think about the effect you get when you get hit with a flash when someone is taking a picture.

It's not a force field, but messing with someone's vision can be an advantage in a fight.

Back in the old Sure Fire 6P "65 lumens of blinding light" days we thought that was a pretty big deal and a lot of light. Nowadays I've happy with anything from 100-1000 lumens.

[NETim]

They can be quite dazzlelated but their trigger finger will still be operational.

[Chuck Haggard]

For unknown threats the responsible thing to do is use a handheld light for PID and hitting them in the eyes to take their vision.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Complex question:

1. It depends on state of dark adaptation
2. It depends on distance - square law, etc.
3. It depends on output
4. Are you really sensitive to flicker?

I wouldn't count on it. In a low light FOF across large room distances, I found mid 2000's flashlights just made the user a nice target. I never was impressed by the strobe. I can look right into it and ho-hum. Not the gun rag hype that I would get sick and dizzy. Are the new ones more efficacious - that would need empirical and independent testing.

I know a simulation where targets had Surefire's (not the 500 lumen types ) inserted at head level and folks just shot COM.

On the other hand, I did a home test where I work up in the middle of the night and said - oh, I am dark adapted. I took my Surefire 9P in the walk in closet with absolutely no light and aimed it down the closet. Wow, I flinched from light and had a persisting image of shirts and pants! But that was fully dark adapted. In day time, I can look right into it in the bathroom mirror. Yes, it interferes with vision but no dramatic impact.

Here's a point , if you are dark adapted the splash back from a light get you too! I was stunned so to speak by the images of shirts! It wasn't into my eyes.

If someone wants to send me a 500 or so, I'll test it.

[orionz06]

How one uses the light matters a lot. Just because people don't double over and start puking because of the light doesn't mean it's not a valuable tool.

[Chuck Haggard]

How one uses the light matters a lot. Just because people don't double over and start puking because of the light doesn't mean it's not a valuable tool.

^This^

Just standing there behind the light isn't a viable tactic. Many people think they know how to use a light in a tactical scenario, they do not.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I'm no expert but someone walking around a complex of dark rooms with the light held over his head did not fool me. As the light is not pointed directly at me - and I'm behind concealment - you are a lighthouse out for a stroll.

Since I'm an evil prof - I had my own Surefire and lit up the lighthouse with light and paintball and then moved to another position. I did hit a surprise dummy (stuffed not human) in the head with my Surefire at the NTI (they gave us a gun with an unknown number of rounds). But I was bad - I was supposed to pick up a nearby tennis racket for an impact weapon.

I guess I object to the early super hype blinding weapon. I have used the light on walks through the neighborhood when someone approaches and is unknown. It does make them stop and I then say sorry to another upscale walker. I saw an ad where it was claimed a light deterred an angry moose. I find the neighborhood dogs and cats simply look at the light with no noticeable fear or flight.

[orionz06]

You're judging a tool based on very poor use of it.

[Chuck Haggard]

You're judging a tool based on very poor use of it.

^This^

[KevinB]

You're judging a tool based on very poor use of it.

^This^

Absolutely.

Light Usage like most things is an art. When used properly lights can be very effective - either for PID, or Masking yourself/teammates. Light techniques are also around to mitigate blinding yourself (somewhat important when working in houses).

Yes lights can draw fire - and techniques are around to mitigate that threat.

Also understanding that someone who understands light will not necessarily fall prey to some of the techniques is also of equal importance.


One of my most frustrating aspects from most Shoot/Kill Houses is that most are flat black walled - which gives the user an over appreciation for how much light and wear to use it.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

My point was not to denigrate the tool. It was to point out that it must be used correctly and one needs to understand how light and visual response work together.

It was also to mention that some publicity hype was just that.

[Chuck Haggard]

My point was not to denigrate the tool. It was to point out that it must be used correctly and one needs to understand how light and visual response work together.

It was also to mention that some publicity hype was just that.

Flashlights, like cars, power tools, guns, airplanes, work better with good training.

[45dotACP]

So the natural followup to this line of thought would then be: Where/with whom does one train for good quality low light instruction? It seems to be a valuable skill to know and applicable to most anybody carrying a gun/has a nightstand gun...