VA manager's email mocks veteran suicides

[NEPAKevin]

VA manager's email mocks veteran suicides (http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2015/03/09/va-managers-email-mocks-veteran-suicides/24602495/)


The email (https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1682699-va-email.html) obtained by The Indianapolis Star contains photographs of a toy Christmas elf posing as a patient in what appears to be the hospital's transitional clinic for returning veterans. In one photograph, the elf pleads for Xanax. In another, he hangs himself with an electrical cord.

[Peally]

Nothing but class there

[Shellback]

Probably got a promotion.

The actual emails and images can be seen here: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1682699-va-email.html

http://www.disabledveterans.org.4sj1.spdl.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/574x613x150310-Elf-Picture-2.jpg.speedilic.ic.Mow6qIH5Nw.jpg

http://www.disabledveterans.org.4sj1.spdl.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/541x679x150310-Elf-Picture-3.jpg.speedilic.ic.iZcLhn-J9k.jpg

[LittleLebowski]

She did get a bonus last year.

[Kyle Reese]

Wake me up when she's sanctioned or her employment is terminated.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[NEPAKevin]

VA hospital manager suspended after email draws fire (http://www.ksl.com/?sid=33773342&nid=)


The Indianapolis Star and WRTV report the Roudebush Veteran Affairs Medical Center placed Robin Paul on administrative leave Tuesday pending further investigation. Paul managed the transitional clinic for returning veterans that provides mental health and other services.

[Sensei]

A really tasteless parody of the VA's controlled substance problem when it comes to mental health and chronic pain - and it is a real problem. One VA in Wisconsin earned the nickname Candy Land with at least one patient receiving 900 tablets of oxycodone in a single month; enough to empty an entire pharmacy's supply. The VA has perfected the art of turning a disease into a disability when it comes to the management of those with less visible injuries. I suppose it's a lot easier to keep refilling those scripts instead of actually seeing those patients...

[Odin Bravo One]

Yet in other facilities you can't get an 800mg vitamin I and the water to take it with.

Need a letter from your Mom, Santa Claus, both state senators, and Jesus H. Christ certifying you are actually in pain. But since none of them are doctors, you still roll out of an appointment with "Pain Management" with nothing more than your dick in your hand.

[LittleLebowski]

Gov't run healthcare and the ones that pushed it through don't see the example of it right in front of their eyes.

[RJ]

What the actual.

And this woman is still employed. Geebus.

[NEPAKevin]

What the actual.

And this woman is still employed. Geebus.

If one of the articles I read yesterday was correct, still employed with a salary of almost eighty grand a year. Would not be be surprised if she is removed from her position... with a transfer and promotion.

[45dotACP]

Tasteless. Absolutely without class and totally shameful.

Literally any other hospital and she'd be gone....

[TGS]

Tasteless. Absolutely without class and totally shameful.

Literally any other hospital and she'd be gone....

Federal employment...and the vagaries of firing someone.....is very different from the private sector.

Even if they wanted her gone, they probably wouldn't be able to fire her within the time this went public and your guys' posts here.

[45dotACP]

True enough. And she likely isn't the only scumbag to keep her job in spite of deserving to lose it.

That and finding personnel to staff VA hospitals can be problematic as I understand...overworked, underfunded and underpaid could be embroidered on a flag in Latin and flown outside every VA in the country and there would still be no increase in funding...

Sorry, this just chaps my ass.

[Jeep]

Gov't run healthcare and the ones that pushed it through don't see the example of it right in front of their eyes.

Bingo! We have a winner. This is the future of healthcare for all of us if the lefties in Washington are allowed to keep pursuing our present path to a welfare-state Utopia.

[SecondsCount]

Bingo! We have a winner. This is the future of healthcare for all of us if the lefties in Washington are allowed to keep pursuing our present path to a welfare-state Utopia.

I know this is getting off topic but I was speaking with my tax guy who leans toward the right. He mentioned that there have been quite a few customers that have complained about the tax imposed on them by "The Affordable Health Care Act."

Utopia doesn't seem so good when you owe taxes at the end of the year due to the fine for not having health insurance.

[Sensei]

True enough. And she likely isn't the only scumbag to keep her job in spite of deserving to lose it.

That and finding personnel to staff VA hospitals can be problematic as I understand...overworked, underfunded and underpaid could be embroidered on a flag in Latin and flown outside every VA in the country and there would still be no increase in funding...

Sorry, this just chaps my ass.

Of those 3, the overworked part gives me the greatest pause. When you look at the hours worked and intensity of effort by most VA physicians and nurses, they don't come close to their private sector counterparts. This then relates to their $/hour compensation which is actually pretty good when you factor in the lack of overnight call, low expectations for overbooking their loose schedule, federal perks, etc.

The people making out like bandits were the VA physicians who also served in the NG. Most of these guys make O-5/O-6 just for having a pulse, do 90-day BOG deployments with specialty pay, have built in time off for drill with no loss in pay, and get a combined federal / state retirement that approaches their salaries.

IMHO, the biggest hurdle in recruiting talented healthcare providers is the reputation of the VA administration and its patients. Most of us worked in VA's during our medical school or residency years and got a very bad taste. The administration is poorly responsive at most centers and inflexible. A disproportionate number of the patients are very difficult in that they are non-compliant, addicted, and take little responsibility for their own care. This last point may rub some the wrong way, but I say it as someone who has experienced the VA from both sides of the window. The WWII generation that I saw as a med student rotating in the VA during the '90s is largely gone now and replaced by a patient population that is much more difficult to treat. The social worker in question appears to be affected by this phenomenon that I describe, but has chosen a very distasteful method of dealing with her frustration.

[JodyH]

Could be a case of gallows humor.
I know I've said some things about people (especially Darwin award winners and the mentally ill who refuse to take their damn meds or who self medicate) that would look bad under a public spotlight.
I also know a bunch of Docs, EMS, Cops and Soldiers who would do the same distasteful mocking right alongside me (or her for that matter) depending on the circumstances.
I'm not going to fire up the torch and grab a pitchfork without knowing the rest of the story.

[Sensei]

Could be a case of gallows humor.
I know I've said some things about people (especially Darwin award winners and the mentally ill who refuse to take their damn meds or who self medicate) that would look bad under a public spotlight.
I also know a bunch of Docs, EMS, Cops and Soldiers who would do the same distasteful mocking right alongside me (or her for that matter) depending on the circumstances.
I'm not going to fire up the torch and grab a pitchfork without knowing the rest of the story.

I agree to an extent. I'll be the first to admit that I've told a joke or two that landed me in my boss' office. I even let a humorous diagram of the male vs female vs canine brain anatomy get posted in my workspace when I was an intern. An ex-girlfriend nurse jumped on the opportunity to complain. That last one earned me a trip to the HR office and a warning in my file that nearly derailed my FBI BI almost a decade later. The real problems come when the gallows humor is done over email or social media. Jokes will be forgotten, tasteless posters will get taken down, but electronic media is the gift that keeps on giving.

[45dotACP]

I agree to an extent. I'll be the first to admit that I've told a joke or two that landed me in my boss' office. I even let a humorous diagram of the male vs female vs canine brain anatomy get posted in my workspace when I was an intern. An ex-girlfriend nurse jumped on the opportunity to complain. That last one earned me a trip to the HR office and a warning in my file that nearly derailed my FBI BE almost a decade later. The real problems come when the gallows humor is done over email or social media. Jokes will be forgotten, tasteless posters will get taken down, but electronic media is the gift that keeps on giving.
Yup...this exactly

There's a reason I don't post career related humor on any social media...seen people get burned by that before.

[Peally]

I agree to an extent. I'll be the first to admit that I've told a joke or two that landed me in my boss' office. I even let a humorous diagram of the male vs female vs canine brain anatomy get posted in my workspace when I was an intern. An ex-girlfriend nurse jumped on the opportunity to complain. That last one earned me a trip to the HR office and a warning in my file that nearly derailed my FBI BI almost a decade later. The real problems come when the gallows humor is done over email or social media. Jokes will be forgotten, tasteless posters will get taken down, but electronic media is the gift that keeps on giving.

Your first mistake was dipping the pen in the company ink :D

[Sensei]

Your first mistake was dipping the pen in the company ink :D

There is an established tradition for relationships between residents and nurses handed down through the ages. They get to sleep with us, we sleep with their friends - it's a win-win situation for everybody.

Getting bitter over established tradition and going to HR does no one any good and threatens the space-time continuum. Besides, I only dipped my pen in the ink a couple of times. I have colleagues who went to so many different wells that their pens write in red, black, yellow, white...you get the picture.

[Shellback]

22 veterans are committing suicide everyday. The problem is this stupid bitch is one of the people responsible for helping combat veterans and this has gone public, further eroding what little trust there is with the VA. The relationship between the VA and many veterans is already strained and this does nothing to add to the credibility of the organization. That holds especially true when veterans feel like they're being denigrated by the people who are supposed to be helping them with these exact same issues.


The woman who sent the email is Robin Paul, a licensed social worker who manages the hospital's Seamless Transition Integrated Care Clinic. The clinic provides returning veterans with transition assistance, including mental health and readjustment services.

[TGS]

I agree to an extent. I'll be the first to admit that I've told a joke or two that landed me in my boss' office. I even let a humorous diagram of the male vs female vs canine brain anatomy get posted in my workspace when I was an intern. An ex-girlfriend nurse jumped on the opportunity to complain. That last one earned me a trip to the HR office and a warning in my file that nearly derailed my FBI BI almost a decade later. The real problems come when the gallows humor is done over email or social media. Jokes will be forgotten, tasteless posters will get taken down, but electronic media is the gift that keeps on giving.

I guess I have to agree with you.

Telling morbid jokes in the ambulance bay and crew room...what can basically be considered (and are officially treated as) "safe zones" for our specific culture is very different than sending an official work email to a department. I, as well, have had an official note to file for inappropriate remarks sent over digital mediums.

Joke emails are sent, but they aren't of gallows humor. As inappropriate as it is, there are times and places for it. She made a fatal error.

[DocGKR]

"When you look at the hours worked and intensity of effort by most VA physicians and nurses, they don't come close to their private sector counterparts."

Directly seen this.


"Most of us worked in VA's during our medical school or residency years and got a very bad taste. The administration is poorly responsive at most centers and inflexible. A disproportionate number of the patients are very difficult in that they are non-compliant, addicted, and take little responsibility for their own care."

Also seen this in effect.

[Sensei]

The biggest fallacy of VA healthcare is that nobody else can do their job. This gets repeated by the left and the right as I once heard David Webb making the claim on his SirusXM Patriot radio show. Nothing could be further from the truth. Give veterans an enhanced version of Medicare with fewer out-of-pocket expenses for Parts B and D and let them choose the civilian facility that best serves their needs. The civilian free market will quickly expand to meet this new demand. This would put an end to veterans having to travel long distance to find convenient care. The government could then redirect the billions of dollars spent on overhead to actually funding quality care.

While we are at it, let's close down all of those large, non-theater MEDDACs that duplicate local civilian facilities and account for one of the largest line items in the DOD healthcare budget. Installations can keep their out-patient clinics, TMCs, etc., but all CONUS in-patient care should be left up to local hospitals. Trust me folks, you don't wanted to be admitted to these military community hospitals; they're worse than most VA's. Active duty military physicians could have privileges in civilian facilities where their primary mission should be to service the local military and veteran populations. Their secondary mission should be to maintain critical, mission-oriented clinical skills. Anyone who doubts me on this should ask themselves this question: if I were wounded in theater, which surgeon would I want opening my abdomen? One who works at Eisenhower Army Hospital in Ft. Gordon, GA where he never sees trauma and may remove a couple of gall bladders per month. Or, do you want an surgeon assigned to Ft. Gordon but performs the majority of their clinical duties at the Medical College of GA / GA Regeants with over 3,000 trauma admissions per year and countless other major procedures. I don't know about anyone else, but I'll take door number 2.

[Shellback]

Board votes to suspend license of embattled VA manager Robin Paul. (http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/board-votes-to-suspend-license-of-embattled-va-manager-robin-paul) License suspended for 90 days.

[Sensei]

Board votes to suspend license of embattled VA manager Robin Paul. (http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/board-votes-to-suspend-license-of-embattled-va-manager-robin-paul) License suspended for 90 days.

I suspect that this is just the beginning of her problems. This type of licensing discipline must be reported on most job applications and makes employment at reputable institutions very difficult. She should probably leave the social work field for another career. This lady will find herself in a very similar situation to that guy who berated the Chick-Filet lady on video. One moment of horrible indiscretion can destroy a life.

[BehindBlueI's]

Could be a case of gallows humor.
I know I've said some things about people (especially Darwin award winners and the mentally ill who refuse to take their damn meds or who self medicate) that would look bad under a public spotlight.
I also know a bunch of Docs, EMS, Cops and Soldiers who would do the same distasteful mocking right alongside me (or her for that matter) depending on the circumstances.
I'm not going to fire up the torch and grab a pitchfork without knowing the rest of the story.

Pretty much this. If this offends you, you DEFINITELY don't want to hang out with 1st responders or combat troops.

The VA has a metric butt ton of issues. This really isn't one of them. Secret waitlists and appalling conditions concern me way more than a joke. When I first got out I had to go to the VA in Louisville for treatment and rehab. The conditions were so appalling it literally left me in tears. I wonder how many people got suspended because waiting rooms were standing room only...

[DocGKR]

Sensei -- Absolutely spot on. I have been suggesting this for years.

JodyH/BehindBlueI's -- Fully concur.

[Drang]

I wonder how many people got suspended because waiting rooms were standing room only...
Not enough.

[Shellback]

And she's done... http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/04/10/va-supervisor-resigns-after-email-controversy/25615513/

Robin Paul, who managed the Indianapolis hospital's transitional clinic for returning veterans, submitted her resignation on Tuesday.

"Even though I have had an excellent work history with the VA, my career with the VA is effectively over as a result of this incident and the resulting public and political pressure," she said in a statement provided to The Indianapolis Star through her attorney, Barclay Wong.

Paul said she and her family have been subjected to "harassment and hostility" as a result of the email's publication.

"I received death threats, my minor child was harassed, and we had to seek police protection," she said.

Paul said the email was taken out of context and was never intended to mock veterans.

"The 'elf' email I sent in December 2014 was to an internal staff email group following a clinic holiday lunch party," she said. "I take full responsibility for sending the email; however, the intent of the email and pictures has been misrepresented. My intent was not to mock Veterans; the intent was to thank the team for their work in dealing with tough issues on a daily basis. The elf did not represent a Veteran; it was a toy elf — nothing more."...

[Sensei]

And she's done... http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/04/10/va-supervisor-resigns-after-email-controversy/25615513/



said the email was taken out of context and was never intended to mock veterans.



I suppose that we can now add liar to her list of offenses.

[fixer]

good riddance. Hardly an apology and more of a "woe-is-me" statement. No believes her tripe.

[Peally]

Well that was one big lie of a response from her. Meant to thank the team? Give me a break.

At least if I get caught cussing at work or something stupid I'll admit to it.