View Full Version : G20 Gen 4
Anyone have some cool pics of their G20's? Gen3 is ok as well, especially if you had a grip mod done!
I had a cool pic of mine with a nice doe I popped in the head with it. I'll see if I can find it. It was a few years ago.
I have a G4 that has run well. I have heard rumblings of issues with the G4 20. I think a G29 with Trophy Bonded is an incredible outdoorsy person's rig -- higher power version of LW Commander.
This is my G3 20SF with Boresight loving:
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps8qphbihv.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps8qphbihv.jpg.html)
GJM,
How do you like that grip mod? How does it seem, size-wise, to a gen4 no backstrap 17/22?
GJM,
How do you like that grip mod? How does it seem, size-wise, to a gen4 no backstrap 17/22?
It is still bigger than a 17 but smaller than a G4 20. Points more like a 1911 (with the grip reduction). Good traction with the texturing.
How's the accuracy?
Shoots like a 1911. :)
Really? As in, sub 2" groups at 25? Sub 2" at 50?
I had JoJo's fit a Bar Sto barrel to one of mine, and the OEM barrel shot so well I pulled the Barsto. Two inches at 25 with good ammo and a good trigger puller.
Sold!
Does no one else own a 20?
Up1911Fan
02-22-2015, 10:52 PM
I'll have one soon, it'll be a Gen4.
secondstoryguy
02-23-2015, 01:19 AM
I'm a big fan of the G20s, whether they be Gen 3 or 4. I've owned several and they have all shot extremely well, even with factory barrels. I've shot several sub 2" groups at 25 yards with the ones I've owned. Since moving to warmer climates with fewer animals that can eat me I've sold them off but the G40 has me thinking about buying another.
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh201/secondstoryguy/IMG_0051-1.jpg (http://s257.photobucket.com/user/secondstoryguy/media/IMG_0051-1.jpg.html)
DocGKR
02-23-2015, 07:53 PM
We unfortunately have been doing some recent 10 mm testing--definitely gets my hand sore shooting full power loads. With the G20 grip reduction, feels about like a G17. While 10 mm is a great SMG cartridge, I have little use for it in handguns, tending to prefer a rifle or 12 ga backed up with an M&P40 for backwoods use.
http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b580/DocGKR2/G20_zpsd8abpkhb.jpg
Maple Syrup Actual
02-23-2015, 08:18 PM
Sold!
Does no one else own a 20?
I do but aside from putting real sights on it, there's nothing non-factory about it. It's a gen 3 SF. The regular gen 3 I had before ran fine but the SF was nicer to handle.
I brought the SF to a Hackathorn class and talked it over with him...he picked it up and said, "man, aren't these things great? This is the best god damn Glock. It's the only Glock other than a 17 or a 19 that I care for. The nine and ten mil Glocks are pretty damn good guns, except that gen 4 19 they gave me. What a dog."
And that is pretty much a direct quote.
Anyway I do love my 20SF. Great pistol if you need to shout "get some".
The problem is there are basically NO .40 loads suitable for penetrating a brown bear's skull, and those that might work are sketchy as to manufacturer and reliability. The hard cast loads I tested in a Glock 22, for example, would not function reliably through a KKM barrel.
In 10mm, there are a number of FMJ loads that might penetrate, and the new Federal Trophy Bonded load which seems the best 10mm load for woods use from a major manufacturer.
Everyone that has been around big bears prefers a Guide Gun or shotgun, but there are times when you are doing things without your long gun or it becomes inoperative. The 10mm gives you the best chance of penetrating a skull with a service pistol sized handgun.
How did you conclude that a .40 FMJ and 10mm FMJ would perform so differently? Assuming say both purchased from the same manufacturer.
How did you conclude that a .40 FMJ and 10mm FMJ would perform so differently? Assuming say both purchased from the same manufacturer.
Fair question that involves some speculation, since live testing isn't likely to be popular with brown bears or load testers. This has been part of an ongoing conversation the last few years, with input from many. Double Tap used to make a FMJ FP load in .40, but it has been discontinued. Currently, I am not aware of any FMJ ammo designed as a penetrator load, that is available from the same manufacturer in .40 and 10.
Apparently, an Alaska Wildlife trooper did some testing with a bear skull, and found JHP did not reliably penetrate. (I haven't spoken to the person who supposedly did this study.) I don't find this surprising, since reliable expansion, while desirable in a service load, is not ideal for penetrating a bear's skull. From a hunter's perspective, what you do want to penetrate a skull is some combination of velocity, bullet construction and bullet shape.
The problem with most .40 FMJ loads is they are "value" loads, designed for economy and not penetration. The .40 loads that seem most suitable are hard cast, but they have not been reliable in the two G4 G22 pistols we tried with after market barrels. They have run in a FNS. I have been reluctant to try them in an HK, due to the HK barrel design. My source for loaded hard cast is Double Tap. The DT hard cast loads, which are heavy and relatively fast, feel like they may be at the edge of the reliability envelope for the .40 pistols I have tried them in. While fast for .40, they are slower in velocity than the 10mm loads.
In 10, there are a number of loads marketed specifically as penetrator loads, of 180-200 grains, about 1,150-1,200 fps. These loads are faster than the heavy .40 loads, which should help in penetrating a skull. Their bullet shape is a flat point as opposed to round ball. I believe that at least some are monolithic, as opposed to the value .40 ball construction of plated lead.
Looking at Gary's pictures of the Trophy Bonded 180 bullets, they look exactly like what I expect my hunting bullets recovered from a moose, caribou or elk to look like. I do not want them to expand. Unless he found the bullets to come apart in some of the test medium, this looks ideal. I also like that they are made by Federal, that they feel good, and that I have yet to have a stoppage with them in multiple Glock 29, Glock 20, S&W 1066 and 1076 pistols.
Got it. Alaska Troopers supposedly tested calibers on bear heads (not just skulls but intact heads) before choosing the G22. The report of said testing was that basically all service loads popped the brain pan when hit through nostrils or mouth and big boomers like .44 mag sometimes failed from other angles. Ever heard tell of those tests? They'd have occurred quite some time ago.
I've seen a few places post 25" of gel penetration of the .40 180 grain Win load. Seems like a lot but things like bone are not gel obviously.
Besides this newish Federal I wasn't aware of 10mm penetrator loads other than specialty brands like BB, DT, Corbon etc. That is loads where you aren't counting on the FMJ construction.
Got it. Alaska Troopers supposedly tested calibers on bear heads (not just skulls but intact heads) before choosing the G22. The report of said testing was that basically all service loads popped the brain pan when hit through nostrils or mouth and big boomers like .44 mag sometimes failed from other angles. Ever heard tell of those tests? They'd have occurred quite some time ago.
I've seen a few places post 25" of gel penetration of the .40 180 grain Win load. Seems like a lot but things like bone are not gel obviously.
Besides this newish Federal I wasn't aware of 10mm penetrator loads other than specialty brands like BB, DT, Corbon etc. That is loads where you aren't counting on the FMJ construction.
Joe, I am pretty sure the only time I heard of the AK Troopers (the organization, as opposed to an individual) doing such testing is from you, but I can't remember if that was in person or in a thread. One odd thing is the reference to ".44," which varies from 180 puff loads to stuff so powerful it requires a Super Redhawk to fire.
My first requirement for a bear cartridge in a semi-auto is reliability. Second is penetration. Ideally a warning shot makes the bear go away, as it has done for me a number of times. Next, the statistics show a shot striking the bear anywhere anywhere often stops the charge. Only in a small number of cases, is it necessary to penetrate the brain to stop the attack. Good thing, because otherwise the statistics would look a lot different.
Keeping the above in mind, if I had a Glock 19 and Speer 124+P, and was just visiting AK, I would be tempted to buy a large container of bear spray before I bought a .40, just for its additional capability around bears. If I had a .40, I would probably just run my regular JHP, a load Gary recommends, or maybe the Hornady 180 XTP, as I have a good impression of the penetration with XTP bullets. (Hornady lists the .40 180 XTP as 190/950 fps, and the 10mm 180 XTP/1,180 fps). If I hung around bears a lot, or just wanted to, I would get a 10mm, as the XTP 180 example shows the difference between the two cartridges.
If I was carrying a Glock, I would run Federal Trophy Bonded or Hornady XTP ammo because I have a high degree of confidence it will function in these pistols. If I had a third generation S&W, I would consider hard cast or one of the two previously mentioned loads. In all cases, I would try to keep a long gun as primary. I would not hesitate to have bear spray along, especially if you have an unarmed member of your party with you.
Chuck Haggard
02-24-2015, 02:56 PM
You guys obviously need this;
3139
While 10 mm is a great SMG cartridge, I have little use for it in handguns, tending to prefer a rifle or 12 ga backed up with an M&P40 for backwoods use.
]
Doc: What kinds of loads would you carry for backwoods use in that M&P? FMJ or hollow point?
[QUOTE=Chuck Haggard;298301]You guys obviously need this;
QUOTE]
My view is that no one "needs" a .38 Super--but I keep looking for a nice blued Colt in .38 Super. Because. . . . auto bandits.
38 Super w/ FMJ man. Problem solved, problem staying solved.
(just traded into a G31 I'll get a .40 barrel for. But dang that Sig has some penetrating fool loads available for it)
DocGKR
02-24-2015, 04:19 PM
JHC -- In many tests .40 S&W penetrates many intermediate barriers better than 357 Sig.
Jeep -- bonded 180 gr JHP's.
Seems like this and the G20 thread should merge as they are so intertwined. My neck is getting sore looking back and forth.
JHC -- In many tests .40 S&W penetrates many intermediate barriers better than 357 Sig.
Jeep -- bonded 180 gr JHP's.
Thanks. Makes sense.
Clusterfrack
02-24-2015, 10:56 PM
My backcountry gun:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/12/ana9uhum.jpg
My backcountry gun:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/12/ana9uhum.jpg
Who makes that thumb break kydex. ?
My backcountry gun:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/12/ana9uhum.jpg
What ammo are you using?
Clusterfrack
02-24-2015, 11:11 PM
I worked up this load: 180 gr XTP over 10.1 gr of 800X at 1300 fps. I was working on a 200 gr Beartooth hard cast gas check load but never finished it.
This G20 was for a Montana trip last summer that never happened. I've carried it a few times here in OR, but it's heavy. I'm hoping my 9mm Glocks will get the job done in these woods where we have only have black bear, cougar, pit bulls, and Mexican pot farmers.
Clusterfrack
02-24-2015, 11:13 PM
Who makes that thumb break kydex. ?
That's a Raven.
That's a Raven.
Thanks, I didn't know they offered a thumb break option.
I'm a big fan of the G20s, whether they be Gen 3 or 4. I've owned several and they have all shot extremely well, even with factory barrels. I've shot several sub 2" groups at 25 yards with the ones I've owned. Since moving to warmer climates with fewer animals that can eat me I've sold them off but the G40 has me thinking about buying another.
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh201/secondstoryguy/IMG_0051-1.jpg (http://s257.photobucket.com/user/secondstoryguy/media/IMG_0051-1.jpg.html)
Have you noticed any consistent difference in accuracy between the GEN3 and Gen 4 Glock 20's? I'm debating between Glock 20 SF and the 20 GEN 4. I was leaning towards the GEN 4 because of the double recoil spring system and the improved accuracy I've seen in the 9 mm gen 4's.
On the face of it, I prefer the Gen 4. However, there have been rumblings of function issues in some Gen 4 20's. Probably Google-able. My Gen 4 20 and 29 have run, but I don't have high round counts on either. Have not heard of systemic issues with the SF.
My backcountry gun:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/12/ana9uhum.jpg
Do you find that the laser holds zero?
Clusterfrack
02-25-2015, 10:55 AM
Do you find that the laser holds zero?
Yeah, I tested it hard enough that the top of the light is now a little scorched. The laser on the X400U is solid.
Lost River
04-28-2017, 08:15 PM
Anyone have some cool pics of their G20's? Gen3 is ok as well, especially if you had a grip mod done!
While cruising through stuff, looking to see if we had a rimfire thread, I found this post.
I no longer have this OD Gen 3 G20. It was a great gun, and shot virtually anything I fed it.
This is a pic in the Frank Church Wilderness, along what is known as the Magruder Corridor road.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/029.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/029.jpg.html)
Shown on my trusty steed:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/055.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/055.jpg.html)
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/007-2.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/007-2.jpg.html)
Gun Mutt
04-29-2017, 11:35 AM
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/029.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/029.jpg.html)
What's that mag extension? Arredondo?
Lost River
04-29-2017, 11:50 AM
What's that mag extension? Arredondo?
Yep,
That pic is probably 9 years old now.
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