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Mr_White
02-20-2015, 12:33 PM
Week 100: 3x5 Performance Push

Results may be posted until March 20th, 2015

Designed by: Gabe White
Range: 7 yards
Target: 3x5 in the head box of a USPSA, IDPA, or similar target
Start Position: Hands at sides, pistol holstered – alternatively, pistol in ready position of your choice
Rounds Fired: approximately 60
Timer is required

Purpose: Explore and improve performance range for the task of presenting the gun from holster or ready and shooting two shots to a 3x5 card at 7 yards.

Variations: Preferably, do this drill from the holster. Concealment is optional. If constrained by range rules, or if you simply prefer, you may do the drill from ready position of your choice.

String 1: On demand hits – shoot two shots to the 3x5 card and hit with both. This part is Pass (two 3x5 hits) or Fail (not two 3x5 hits.) Record Pass or Fail, number of 3x5 hits, and time it took.

String 2: Establish a very aggressive pace – shoot two shots, aiming for the 3x5. Record the time when you put one shot in the 3x5 and the other anywhere within the head box. Repeat if needed until you get that result. Try to get this done within about five attempts. Record the hits and time, and number of attempts it took.

String 3: Practice at roughly the pace established in String 2. Make yourself move more precisely at speed. Establish your grip cleanly, drive the gun to the target spot, see the sight picture better and sooner, work the trigger more smoothly. The goal in String 3 is to have a majority of hits to the 3x5 – over 60% is a rough guideline. Shoot ten repetitions (20 shots total) and record the times and number of 3x5 hits.

String 4: Practice ten more repetitions of shooting two to the 3x5. Improve your hit percentage to roughly 80% or more. Don't think in terms of fast or slow. Instead think of being more precise. Record the number of hits to the 3x5 and times.

String 5: Return to on demand performance, now with a little pressure: shoot two to the 3x5, until you shoot three consecutive pairs to the 3x5 with 100% hits. Continue until you hit 6/6 consecutive shots or you choose to end the drill. Record number of hits to the 3x5, times, and the number of attempts it took.

Please report the following when you post your results in this thread:

Start Position Used (holstered, concealed and holstered, ready position – please specify the ready position)
Equipment used (pistol, holster, optional concealment garment if one was used)
String 1: Pass or Fail, number of 3x5 hits, and the time it took
String 2: hits and time, and number of attempts it took
String 3: 3x5 hits and times, total percentage of 3x5 hits for String 3
String 4: 3x5 hits and times, total percentage of 3x5 hits for String 4
String 5: times for three consecutive pairs at 100% 3x5 hits (or whatever you had when you chose to end the drill), and number of attempts it took
Report anything you noticed that you thought was noteworthy or interesting

Training with firearms is an inherently dangerous activity. Be sure to follow all safety protocols when using firearms or practicing these drills. These drills are provided for information purposes only. Use at your own risk.

Mr_White
02-23-2015, 04:55 PM
Equipment and Start Position: Gen3 G34, concealed under a t-shirt in the Keeper, hands at sides
String 1: Pass, 2 hits, 1.24, .48 = 1.72

String 2: 1 3x5 hit, 1 head box hit, .88, .19 = 1.07, one attempt. I think I messed myself up on this and the next string. I drove a little hard on this string and set a pace that I did a bad job keeping up with in string 3...

String 3: 75% 3x5 hits, rest in head box. Every 3x5 miss, or nearly every one, was the second shot getting jerked low out of the 3x5. Got a little tight and didn't keep the pace I set in string 2.

1.07, .24 = 1.31 (-1)
.96, .22 = 1.18 (-1)
1.02, .25 = 1.27 (-1)
1.05, .28 = 1.33 c
1.04, .27 = 1.31 c
.98, .23 = 1.21 c
1.06, .25 = 1.31 (-1)
1.01, .24 = 1.25 (-1)
.99, .25 = 1.24 c
1.00, .28 = 1.28 c

String 4: 80% 3x5 hits, rest in head box. Same as on string 3, all or nearly all of the 3x5 misses were the second shot jerked low.

1.09, .39 = 1.48 c
1.11, .36 = 1.47 (-2, high from sight bounce/low from jerk)
1.09, .34 = 1.43 (-1)
1.11, .36 = 1.47 c
1.08, .33 = 1.41 c
1.10, .39 = 1.49 c
1.10, .37 = 1.47 c
1.13, .38 = 1.51 c
1.11, .35 = 1.46 c
1.10, .37 = 1.47 (-1)

String 5: One restart to get three consecutive clean pairs....grrr

1.13, .45 = 1.58 c
1.13, .44 = 1.57 (-1)
Restart
1.16, .47 = 1.63 c
1.18, .45 = 1.63 c
1.15, .44 = 1.59 c

Comments: This is a part of the exploration I wanted to do, related to the Performance Range and Performance on Demand thread, but there is more I still want to do. I feel a few things after doing this drill though. I didn't like having to restart in String 5 when it was supposed to be 'on-demand' hits. I continue to feel like the way I shot in String 3 is the 'best deal' for me, barring a foreground, background, or unknown background issue that demands otherwise. This drill was nowhere near as bad as slow fire, but its length still tested my attention span a bit. And I definitely need to look more closely at the second shot and see what's going on there. Almost all the fist shots across the entire drill were hits. Almost all the misses came from jerking the trigger on the second shot.

Clobbersaurus
03-01-2015, 05:08 PM
Completed this test today.

Girsan 9mm, concealed OWB in a Bladetech holster under a stupid looking vest. Hands at my sides.

I apologize in advance; I didn't record my splits.

String 1:
Pass: 2.62c

String 2:
2.03c - this was my fastest of 5 attempts at pushing my pace and resulted in a clean run.

String 3: 55% - pushed a little too hard on this one and was just under 60%
2.26c
2.15c
1.87 (-1)
1.93 (-2)
2.04 (-1)
2.07 (-2)
2.30c
2.08 (-1)
2.11 (-1)
1.95 (-1)

String 4: 80%
2.3 (-2)
2.08c
2.22 (-1)
2.19c
2.40c
2.33c
2.03 (-1)
2.20
2.42
2.32

String 5:
2.52 (-1)
Restart
2.91c
2.34c
2.52 (-1) grrrrrrr
Restart
2.62c
2.56c
2.68c


I feel like string 4 is where things came together for me. After a disastrous Cold Fast today, I clearly needed to do a bunch of work on 3x5's and I was looking forward to this test. It was challenging to maintain focus through string 4 and 5. Most of my misses were with my second shot on the 3x5.

ToddG
03-04-2015, 05:06 PM
Burton 9mm Commander
JMCK AIWB & CCC BMCs under an untucked polo and a half-zip sweatshirt
All draws from concealment.

Apologies for getting down only some of the requested data.

Stage 1: both hits 3.37, first try (cold)

Stage 2: both hits in 2.56, first try

Stage 3: average 2.64s; range 2.33 to 3.84; 65% hits

Stage 4: average 2.81s; range 2.65 to 3.03; 75% hits

Stage 5:

3.09 clean
2.98 clean
2.70 -1
2.91 -1
2.80 clean
2.98 -2
TOOK A BREAK
3.21 clean
3.17 clean
3.06 clean


After pushing faster than I wanted so much in such a short time, I found it extremely hard to dial things back to 100%. As noted, I had to take a break (holster the gun and walk off the range for a few minutes) to get myself back into do-it-right mode.

During Stages 3 & 4 I had a number of instances of failures that I didn't record but would have increased my average times significantly: fumbled draws, bad grips (failure in a couple of cases to engage the grip safety), etc. In every case the major problem occurred before I fired the first shot and I just stopped rather than push through, which is a bad habit, too.

2alpha-down0
03-08-2015, 01:39 PM
Start Position: Holstered
Equipment: M&P9, Safariland 6360

String 1: Shot it twice, passed both times: 1.70, .54 = 2.24; 1.76, .65 = 2.41
String 2: 1.52, .37 = 1.89, fourth try.
String 3:
No hits; 1.50, .34 = 1.84
1 hit; 1.59, .41 = 2.00
1 hit; 1.64, .42 = 2.06
1 hit; 1.59, .43 = 2.02
1 hit; 1.63, .42 = 2.05
2 hits; 1.61, .38 = 1.99
1 hit; 1.63, .46 = 2.09
1 hit; 1.56, .40 = 1.96
2 hits; 1.55, .38 = 1.93
2 hits; 1.47, .41 = 1.88 12/20 hits = 60%:cool:

String 4:
2 hits; 1.65, .39 = 2.04
2 hits; 1.68, .44 = 2.12
2 hits; 1.60, .35 = 1.95
1 hit; 1.56, .40 = 1.96
2 hits; 1.50, .38 = 1.88
2 hits; 1.49, .40 = 1.89
2 hits; 1.49, .44 = 1.93
2 hits; 1.59, .36 = 1.95
2 hits; 1.59, .39 = 1.98
2 hits; 1.52, .38 = 1.90 19/20 hits = 95%

String 5: First three attempts were 100%
1.64, .40 = 2.04
1.60, .51 = 2.11
1.64, .45 = 2.09


Managed to shave some time off by the end of the drill, so it was ammo well spent. Like Clobbersaurus, I felt things really come together starting at String 4.

I suppose I'll know for sure next time out whether or not the improvement holds or if it was simply from repetition.

ssb
03-10-2015, 02:01 AM
I did three days' worth of dry practice working on speeding up my presentations. Before doing this drill, I did draws to the 8" circle of the PTC target as well as some additional dry fire to confirm that what I'd been practicing was working. I was pleased with the 8" circle -- I got a 1.17s first-round hit today, which is quite fast for me. Further, I didn't drop a single round on this setup -- all 20 shots I fired could be covered by my hand. Average was 1.28s from concealment to that target. Then I moved to this, without further dry practice.

---

Gun: Gen 4 G19, stock internals, Trijicon HDs
Holster: JMCK AIWB -- concealed

String 1: Shot it twice. Passed twice: 1.64, .46 = 2.10; 1.61, .48 = 2.09
String 2: 1.56, .41 = 1.97 first string (both hits); 1.49, .38 = 1.87 -1.
String 3: Min: 1.81s; Max: 2.03s; Ave: 1.89s; 14/20 hits.
String 4: Min: 1.85s; Max: 2.16s; Ave: 1.98s; 17/20 hits.
String 5: 11/12 hits, Ave: 2.00
2 hits; 1.61, .48 = 2.09
2 hits; 1.60, .39 = 1.99
1 hit; 1.56, .41 = 1.97
2 hits; 1.65, .46 = 2.01
2 hits; 1.60, .39 = 1.99
2 hits; 1.57, .39 = 1.96

A ~1.60s hit with a ~.40s follow-up seems to be the pace where I can guarantee both hits most of the time. Pushing up to ~1.50 territory, I think I'm still getting my first-round hits; it's when I try to speed up the follow-up shot where I get my issue. Why? There was a cluster of hits on the T in the 3x5 box of the PTC target, which was my point of aim. It seems like I'm stuck balancing letting the sight settle completely (which takes about .40-.46s to happen + me notice) versus getting an acceptable sight picture which may be slightly high (takes ~.35s from the splits). On a wide-open target like the 8" circle, I'm not having an issue. I think the most beneficial thing for me going forward is going to be speeding up the presentation to a lower-probability target, so that's what I'll work on when doing dry fire over the next few days. I plan to give this a re-shoot next week to see if there's any progress.

For what it's worth, I shot my best FAST thus far after this drill, coming in at 6.21s clean. Of the three I shot this afternoon, I dropped one body shot on the second run and one head shot on the third. Times were 6.21, 7.94 (started to grip my knife and then realized that pointy objects do not reload guns -- will be adjusting my knife carry accordingly), and 6.65, respectively.

EricM
03-13-2015, 02:08 AM
This drill started off pretty rough. Ran it at the end of a long day at the range, I was pretty fatigued. Threw the first two shots, shot a few more runs with no particular string in mind, total crap. Was thinking I should've done this a few hours ago, I'm in no position to do anything productive, debated packing up and shooting this one another time, but decided to push through it. Was worth the effort.

Gen 4 G34, Blade-Tech OWB, no concealment

String 1: Fail, 3.00 -2. Like I said, total crap.

String 1.5: I did about a dozen reps to straighten myself out and find a pace that was comfortable so I had a baseline to compare String 2 against. Average time was about 2.56. Most of these were clean runs but I probably dropped one on a couple, I didn't write it down.

String 2: 2.32 -1 on first attempt. Was significantly below the average of String 1.5 so I moved on.

String 3:
2.31 -0
2.79 -0 (bad grip)
2.30 -1
2.29 -1
2.03 -0
2.17 -1
2.18 -1
2.20 -2 (bad grip)
2.21 -0
2.29 -1

String 4:
2.61 -2
2.40 -0
2.38 -2
2.32 -0
2.30 -2
2.56 -0
2.40 -0
2.33 -1
2.55 -0
2.37 -0
Okay this was weird...as directed I was thinking to myself "be more precise"...and for all three of the -2 runs, both of the rounds from each rep were touching in nice oblong holes. Apparently in my quest for precision I subconsciously let accuracy slip, or perhaps I overcompensated for the POI change from my latest sight swap. All three -2 pairs were 1/2" to 3/4" low and well within the width of the box.

String 5:
2.62 -1
2.13 -0
2.15 -1
2.51 -1
2.39 -0
2.40 -0
2.29 -0

Some things mentioned in the Speed Control (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?15226-Speed-Control) thread, along with my experiences at the range today doing this drill and others, have really helped me understand why I suck right now when I try to go fast. Bottom line, while I may be more advanced in other areas, I am still a beginner at learning to "see what I need to see" and developing visual patience. Will write more in my training journal when I have time...it's late and I have a feeling the alarm is going to ring way too early.

Range1
03-16-2015, 06:46 PM
Equipment and Start Position: Gen3 G34, concealed under open front jacket in a CompTac OWB strong side holster, hands at side

String 1: Fired twice #1 Fail 1 hit 2.42, 1.16 = 3.58, #2 Pass 2 hits 2.62, .99 = 3.61

String 2: 1 3x5 hit, 1 head box hit, 1.96, .53 = 2.49

String 3: 75% 3x5 hits, 2 misses, rest in head box.

2.20, .68 = 2.88 c
2.29, .66 = 2.95 c
2.39, .80 = 3.19 c
2.12, .70 = 2.82 (-1)
1.94, .65 = 2.59 c
2.03, .64 = 2.67 c
2.15, .51 = 2.66 (-1 outside head box)
2.09, .58 = 2.67 (-1)
2.00, .60 = 2.60 (-1 outside head box)
2.03, .58 = 2.61 (-1)

String 4: 75% 3x5 hits, 2 outside head box, rest in head box.

2.48, .83 = 3.31 c
2.09, .65 = 2.74 c
2.01, .68 = 2.69 c
2.47, .63 = 3.10 c
2.04, .61 = 2.65 c
2.11, .72 = 2.83 (0 in 3x5, 1 in head, 1 outside head box)
1.98, .55 = 2.53 c
2.03, .80 = 2.83 (-1)
1.89, .47 = 2.36 (-1)
2.15, .61 = 2.76 (-1 outside head box)

String 5: 5 restarts

2.09, .98 = 3.07 (-1 outside head box) Restart
2.26, .70 = 2.96 c
2.05, .82 = 2.87 (-1) Restart
2.18, .76 = 2.94 c
2.76, .72 = 3.48 (-1 outside head box) Restart
2.43, .95 = 3.38 (-1) Restart
2.44, .82 = 3.26 c
Screwed up draw badly and aborted run, Restart
2.63, 1.06 = 3.69 c
2.23, .86 = 3.09 c
2.54, .76 = 3.30 c Success!

Over all seemed inconsistent and had difficulty maintaining concentration. To truly get on demand 3x5 hits I could use a sun dial for a timer. Lot of work to do. Most misses were to my support side. When I concentrated on finishing the trigger press flat the shot was more accurate.

Corey
03-17-2015, 03:13 PM
Equipment and start position: M&P9 FS, Blade Tech IDPA holster, open front concealment.

String 1: Fail, 1 hit, 3.04

String 2: 2.37, 2 3x5 hits, Took a second run and got 2.32 with 1 3x5 and 1 head box.

String 3: 65% 3x5 hits
2.56 c
2.79 (-1)
2.56 (-1)
2.42 (-1)
2.82 (-2)
2.52 (-2)
2.48 c
2.40 c
2.36 c
2.28 c

String 4: 80% 3x5 hits
2.85 c
3.11 c
2.76 c
2.56 (-1)
2.86 c
2.37 (-1)
2.52 c
3.02 (-1)
2.84 c
2.64 (-1)

String 5:
5 restarts to get 3 consecutive clean runs. (insert profanity here)
3.00 (-1)
Restart
2.83 (-1)
Restart
3.16 c
2.66 (-1)
Restart
3.27 c
2.84 (-1)
Restart
3.15 c
2.81 c
2.91 (-2) KITTEN!
2.45 c
2.97 c
2.88 c Finally!

Comments: Been working on dry fire daily to build up my elbow and shoulder. Found that it took fewer reps live fire to see problems with trigger control than with dry fire. Once my arm starts getting fatigued, my trigger control drops off sharply. Frustrating, but it is getting better.