CZ-75 SP-01 Shadowmate Canadian Edition - Trigger Spring Broke After Only Dry-Firing

[VooX]

Let me first thank all of the contributors to this forum for providing a wealth of information and rational discussion. As a new gun owner, your forum has been an invaluable resource to me.

Exactly one month ago I brought home my first gun, a CZ-75 SP-01 Shadowmate Canadian Edition. Just like the one Slavex has (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4769-New-IPSC-Canada-CZ-Shadow). As I am also in Canuckistan, and all gun related permits are a waiting game, I am still waiting to get my Authorization to Transport my CZ to my range. While I have been waiting to take my CZ shooting, I have been regularly dry-firing the gun to work on my DA trigger pull, my sight picture, my grip, and to smooth out the internals of the trigger. When I practice my technique, I pull the trigger deliberately. When I am trying to smooth out the internals and don't focus on my technique, I pull the trigger rapidly. Both in DA and in SA modes. I always use snap caps even though I know that a CZ-75 Shadow is safe to dry-fire without them.

I have dry-fired my CZ approximately 800-900 times in the past month. This evening, while dry-firing rapidly, my CZ broke. The trigger no longer resets after the hammer falls and I release my finger. Field-stripping my gun, I noticed that one arm of the trigger spring broke off. This really upsets me.

I bought this gun, at a premium price over most guns and other CZs, because I wanted a reliable and competition-ready gun that I could develop my accuracy and practical shooting skills with. While no mechanical device is ever infallible, CZs do have a reputation for being reliable guns. That mine should fail via dry-firing, before I even shoot a live round through it, does not inspire a lot of confidence in my decision to buy this gun. Especially considering I have not even dry-fired the gun a thousand times.

I was going to buy a German-made Sig P226 but instead chose the CZ-75 Shadowmate Canadian Edition because it seemed like an excellent choice for the IPSC production division.

What should I do? Should I get the gun repaired or should I return the gun altogether for a full refund and get another brand, like the P226?

I have already invested in an IPSC/USPSA holster and magazine pouches for the CZ. As they are still unused, I would likely be able to return them for a refund. I do like the ergonomics of the CZ but reliability is the most important factor in my choosing a particular handgun over another. The other important factors to me are ergonomics and accuracy. I would like to have a handgun which would be a good choice for the IPSC production division as well as being an accurate shooter.

Thanks in advance for your feedback and advice, I do appreciate it.

[45dotACP]

It is likely still the best choice as a competitive shooting pistol. If you have already invested in the cost of putting together a setup for the CZ, then to go through the process of acquiring another handgun (I am not certain of the process in Canada) would likely be time consuming and ardous. I'm a huge fan of learning how to repair and troubleshoot your own pistol for just this reason.

It would trouble me as well if my gun were to break a trigger return spring after only a thousand dry-fires, but frankly if I were to abandon all hope in a gun after it broke a single part, I'd not trust any gun. Better it break now, rather than for it to break in the middle of a match....

[VooX]

It is likely still the best choice as a competitive shooting pistol. If you have already invested in the cost of putting together a setup for the CZ, then to go through the process of acquiring another handgun (I am not certain of the process in Canada) would likely be time consuming and ardous. I'm a huge fan of learning how to repair and troubleshoot your own pistol for just this reason.

It would trouble me as well if my gun were to break a trigger return spring after only a thousand dry-fires, but frankly if I were to abandon all hope in a gun after it broke a single part, I'd not trust any gun. Better it break now, rather than for it to break in the middle of a match....

Thanks for your reply.

The process to replace my gun with another brand is not an arduous one.

I do like the handgun overall in terms of trigger feel and ergonomics.

I do have a gunsmithing video for the CZ-75 which shows a detail strip and reassembly. Because the gun is my first, is new, and I am a couple of months away from bringing it to the range legally, I have not yet bought the necessary tools to detail strip the gun.

[Leroy]

If you do a lot of double action pulls with the Shadows you will break trigger return springs, it is just a fact of life. Everything else on the gun will last a long time except the slide stop pin, CZ Custom recommends replacing them every 15,000 rounds. You will need to buy spare parts and keep them on hand, the trigger return spring is $3, buy a half dozen of them, replace as they break and replace before a major match. There is a newer TRS out there that is suppose to last longer than the older TRS which your gun may have. Cajun Gun Works also sells a 1/2 lb. reduced TRS. You will want to get a punch set from Cajun Gun Works or CZ Custom so you can replace your own parts.
CZ metal guns are a bit complicated internally and can be a bit daunting at first. Once you learn how to take them apart, what parts to keep on hand, and when to replace them there is probably no rival in terms of shootability from a DA/SA.

[GardoneVT]

Let me first thank all of the contributors to this forum for providing a wealth of information and rational discussion. As a new gun owner, your forum has been an invaluable resource to me.

I bought this gun, at a premium price over most guns and other CZs, because I wanted a reliable and competition-ready gun that I could develop my accuracy and practical shooting skills with.

The following is sure to set off a call to tar and feather me, but I believe -not quanitfiably, just personally-CZs and variants thereof are strictly range toy products.

After owning two Tanfoglios, which incorporate some improvements over the CZ including the trigger spring /plunger geometry, my stance is anyone intent on using them seriously needs to approach them like a 1911; have parts on standby, and be educated in installing them.HKs they are NOT.

Im not bashing the genre, but the limitations should be known along with the benefits. They're not piles of fail, but theyre also not Glock 17 Gen 2s.

[Alpha Sierra]

You can go through all the internet drama about "toy" vs "serious" pistols, you can wonder endlessly about reliability of other brands, or you can simply replace a known failure point with a known fix and never worry about it.

Cajun Gun Works (a highly respected CZ gunsmithing and custom shop in Louisiana) has a redesigned trigger return spring that is proven to last tens of thousands of rounds. They also have a redesigned trigger pivot pin that makes removal and replacement of said pin a piece of cake (while the OEM pin is a pain in the ass).

So, while you wait for your ATT, call David Milan at Cajun, explain your issue, let him recommend you which parts and tools you will need to replace both the trigger pin and spring, pay him for the parts (the advice will be free) and when the parts get to you, fix up your pistol and never worry about it again.

http://www.cajungunworks.com/

ETA: If you need some tutorials about how to remove the trigger assembly, or do anything else inside those pistols, just ask. I have quite a few resources bookmarked.

[GardoneVT]

You can go through all the internet drama about "toy" vs "serious" pistols, you can wonder endlessly about reliability of other brands, or you can simply replace a known failure point with a known fix and never worry about it.


What kind of expense is the OP looking at in time and money to fix this?

[Alpha Sierra]

What kind of expense is the OP looking at in time and money to fix this?

Less than $30 in parts and tools and between two to three hours of his time plus whatever it takes UPS to get him the parts. If you've opened up these pistols before, it should take an hour or less.

Note: re-staking the trigger pin should NOT be done when using Cajun Gun Works' replacement pin.

http://czechpistols82792.yuku.com/topic/12605/t/Tutorial-for-Trigger-amp-Return-Spring-Replacement.html

[Alpha Sierra]

Because the gun is my first, is new, and I am a couple of months away from bringing it to the range legally, I have not yet bought the necessary tools to detail strip the gun.

Ummm, you need a hammer, an assortment of pin punches, and a few slave pins. That is it.

[GardoneVT]

Less than $30 in parts and tools and between two to three hours of his time plus whatever it takes UPS to get him the parts. If you've opened up these pistols before, it should take an hour or less.

Note: re-staking the trigger pin should NOT be done when using Cajun Gun Works' replacement pin.

http://czechpistols82792.yuku.com/topic/12605/t/Tutorial-for-Trigger-amp-Return-Spring-Replacement.html

Thanks.

While this particular issue is hardly a major issue, in the aggregate my concern is over the long haul. In a few thousand rounds it'll be something else....and so on and so forth.$30 + time and labor adds up .

[Alpha Sierra]

While this particular issue is hardly a major issue, in the aggregate my concern is over the long haul. In a few thousand rounds it'll be something else....and so on and so forth.$30 + time and labor adds up .
The aggregate experience of the USPSA and IPSC competitors who run these guns HARD says otherwise. The insinuation that the pistol will slowly fall apart over time one part at a time has no basis in fact.

When the TRS and the slide stop are treated as maintenance items, the problems disappear.

[GardoneVT]

The aggregate experience of the USPSA and IPSC competitors who run these guns HARD says otherwise.

Not if there are no offered examples.

[BigT]

Just a note. If the OP intends on shooting IPSC Production with this pistol( that which it is intended for) he may not fit any CGW or any other OEM parts. IPSC rules are different to USPSA rules on this matter.

I too too doubted the long term durability of CZ's. But watching hundreds get run hard in IPSC matches with very rare issue has convinced me of their reliability and durability.


OP simply put shit happens. Get the importer to sort this under warranty, buy some spares and rock on.

[Alpha Sierra]

Not if there are no offered examples.
Well then go find them. Brianenos.com is full of them. And you can also do what I did: buy a couple and shoot the shit out of them.

Or you can speculate.

[Alpha Sierra]

Just a note. If the OP intends on shooting IPSC Production with this pistol( that which it is intended for) he may not fit any CGW or any other OEM parts. IPSC rules are different to USPSA rules on this matter.
For the sake of reliability, I would ignore the rule in this instance.

[Carnifex]

The aggregate experience of the USPSA and IPSC competitors who run these guns HARD says otherwise. The insinuation that the pistol will slowly fall apart over time one part at a time has no basis in fact.

When the TRS and the slide stop are treated as maintenance items, the problems disappear.

Agreed. I have the CGW trigger return springs in three of my CZs and have never broken one. In fact I've never broken anything. My primary 75 shadow has over 20k rounds and countless dry fire time with a 10lbs recoil and 13lb hammer spring. Only a couple malfunctions that were with ammo that failed to case gauge.

CZ UB makes an improved trigger return spring that is supposed to be more durable and IPSC legal. http://czcustom.com/cz75trsnew.aspx

[Talionis]

I have broken two trigger return springs, one rear sight and one slide stop in shooting ten thousand rounds through my CZ SP01 this year. The previous owner had put a very similar round count through the gun before I bought it. Both the first trigger return spring and slide stop broke within a short time of my purchase of the gun at just over twelve thousand rounds down the gun. Both breakages were predictable, and replacement is advised at the 10k mark, so I had spares ready for when it happened.

I have several replacement trigger return springs in my parts box, and with the CGW trigger pin it is easy to fix on the range if I choose to. The only parts breakage I wasn't exactly prepared for was the rear sight shearing off at ~18k rounds.

[BigT]

For the sake of reliability, I would ignore the rule in this instance.
When taking part in sports I prefer not to be a cheat. Stupid rule or not it's the rule. Should he get caught he will be shooting the match with a an iron sighted double action minor factor open gun. Which would suck.


Plenty Shadows run well with the factory part.

[Matt O]

Thanks.

While this particular issue is hardly a major issue, in the aggregate my concern is over the long haul. In a few thousand rounds it'll be something else....and so on and so forth.$30 + time and labor adds up .

Once the horribly designed original trigger pin has been replaced with the CGW pin, replacing trigger springs is a 5-10 minute affair and costs $7.50 a pop. The punches, hammer, etc are all things it would be wise to have on hand regardless of firearm type in my opinion.

[Alpha Sierra]

CZ UB makes an improved trigger return spring that is supposed to be more durable and IPSC legal. http://czcustom.com/cz75trsnew.aspx
Well, there you go. Nice find! I'd go with that over the CGW spring because I prefer a full power reset spring. I would still use CGW's trigger pin because the OE design just plain sucks.

[VooX]

Alpha Sierra, thank you very much for your input. I had no idea that the trigger return spring was a failure point caused by DA trigger pulls. I also appreciate the link for CGW parts. Would you mind sending me a PM of the links you mentioned earlier in the thread? While I have the gunsmithing video, the more information I can access, the better off I will be. I had intended on buying tools for maintaining my CZ shortly, this breakdown has accelerated my timeline. As this is a common failure point, it does give me more confidence to stay with the CZ I bought instead of replacing it with another brand.

Carnifex, thanks for sharing the link for the IPSC-legal trigger return spring replacement from CZ Custom. I have to agree with Big T that I do not like to be a cheat. That the TRS has an identical pull weight to the factory spring and increased reliability is exactly what I am looking for.

Does replacing the trigger spring pin with the CGW version (which is easier to install/remove and includes a slave pin) really violate the spirit of the IPSC rules? I can understand not using the CGW trigger spring as it decreases the DA pull weight by half a pound, that is cheating. But is installing a non-factory pin which offers no mechanical advantage to the function of the pistol cheating?

[LittleLebowski]

Someday I'm going to shoot one of these nice CZs.

[Kyle Reese]

Someday I'm going to shoot one of these nice CZs.

You're welcome to shoot my CGW P09 anytime, dude.

[GJM]

CZ Custom also makes a pin that simplifies replacement of the TRS. I asked ten days ago, when I visited, and they said about 20,000 rounds on a TRS.

That said, a CZ is not a Glock. Rule of three applies -- one to shoot, one as a back-up, and one more back with CZ Custom/Mink being repaired.

[taadski]

CZ Custom also makes a pin that simplifies replacement of the TRS. I asked ten days ago, when I visited, and they said about 20,000 rounds on a TRS.

That said, a CZ is not a Glock. Rule of three applies -- one to shoot, one as a back-up, and one more back with CZ Custom/Mink being repaired.

I'd personally opt for spending the 30 minutes doing it with your own two hands, learning the platform, etc... and not having to mail it across the country. :p

Re the multiple pistols, that holds true regardless of platform, IMO. I can understand the op's (likely) pain in this regard; the custom CZs are expensive. But I wholeheartedly agree and would absolutely recommend having a backup in place if the intent is to be serious about the pursuit.


t

[GJM]

Taadpole, is a pair of those fancy new long slide 226 game guns in your future?

[GardoneVT]

When taking part in sports I prefer not to be a cheat. Stupid rule or not it's the rule.

A fact Brian Williams is coming to grips with of late.

[Kyle Reese]

A fact Brian Williams is coming to grips with of late.

Didn't he invent the CZ-75? :cool:

[taadski]

Taadski, is a pair of those fancy new long slide 226 game guns in your future?

George,

If I could get my paws on one, I'd probably bite the bullet to evaluate it. Alas, it does not appear they're going to be exporting them from the homeland. :( It sounds like it's even hard to get one's hands on one over there.

t

[Alpha Sierra]

Does replacing the trigger spring pin with the CGW version (which is easier to install/remove and includes a slave pin) really violate the spirit of the IPSC rules?
Not in my opinion. PM sent

[Carnifex]

The CGW pin would be illegal for IPSC. CZ UB also has a new no stake trigger pin. I've never used it, but you might look in to it. http://czcustom.com/cztriggerpinnew.aspx

[Alpha Sierra]

The CGW pin would be illegal for IPSC
Yes, we get that. However, most also get that IPSC's blanket 100% prohibition on aftermarket parts in Production is stupid when it comes to parts that give absolutely zero advantage to the user and only improve durability and maintainability. Thank God we don't have to deal with them in the US.

CGW's trigger pin is held in place by the TRS and it is the standard by which all others are measured.

[mizer67]

CZ Custom also makes a pin that simplifies replacement of the TRS. I asked ten days ago, when I visited, and they said about 20,000 rounds on a TRS.

I only got ~10K out of my last TRS.

Probably had about 5K dryfire through it though too.

TRS' and slide stops are something to keep on hand. Regarding overall reliability, for my sample of one, I've run mine with TLG levels of care and anecdotally it's the only pistol I hadn't had a failure/stoppage on with a similar round count.

[BigT]

Yes, we get that. However, most also get that IPSC's blanket 100% prohibition on aftermarket parts in Production is stupid when it comes to parts that give absolutely zero advantage to the user and only improve durability and maintainability. Thank God we don't have to deal with them in the US.

CGW's trigger pin is held in place by the TRS and it is the standard by which all others are measured.


Stupid or not it's the rule. And if the gun is for ipsc production then using the part violates said rule. It's not a carry gun , it's a sports bat. Whether you think it's stupid or not if he fits it he's breaking the rules. Where do you draw the line on acceptable rule breaking in sports?

[Alpha Sierra]

Stupid or not it's the rule. And if the gun is for ipsc production then using the part violates said rule. It's not a carry gun , it's a sports bat. Whether you think it's stupid or not if he fits it he's breaking the rules. Where do you draw the line on acceptable rule breaking in sports?

You do your thing. I'll do mine. The OP will do his. We're all big boys.

[GardoneVT]

You do your thing. I'll do mine. The OP will do his. We're all big boys.

Like this guy?
http://www.odd-zone.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/cory_erika.jpg

[Slowestshooterer]

If you do a lot of double action pulls with the Shadows you will break trigger return springs, it is just a fact of life. Everything else on the gun will last a long time except the slide stop pin, CZ Custom recommends replacing them every 15,000 rounds. You will need to buy spare parts and keep them on hand, the trigger return spring is $3, buy a half dozen of them, replace as they break and replace before a major match. There is a newer TRS out there that is suppose to last longer than the older TRS which your gun may have. Cajun Gun Works also sells a 1/2 lb. reduced TRS. You will want to get a punch set from Cajun Gun Works or CZ Custom so you can replace your own parts.
CZ metal guns are a bit complicated internally and can be a bit daunting at first. Once you learn how to take them apart, what parts to keep on hand, and when to replace them there is probably no rival in terms of shootability from a DA/SA.

One more thing I would recommend getting is the free float trigger pin from CGW. I have broken three TRS in less than 5,000 rounds of live fire on my accu-shadow (no idea how much dry fire). The free float trigger pin makes replacing the TRS much less of hassle, no punches, limited disassembly. I can keep some extra TRS's in my range back and swap them on the fly now. I love the way the gun shoots, and I'm ok with this type of maintenance, as it's primary purpose is gaming.

[BigT]

You do your thing. I'll do mine. The OP will do his. We're all big boys.

So , um, where is the line on acceptable cheating then?

[Jesting Devil]

I've seen 2 CZs go down with broken TRS. One in about 2 weeks of buying and less than 1,000 rounds, one within a few months and under 5,000 rounds. Regular but not excessive dry fire for both. I'd keep extras around for sure, the time till failure on them seems to be fairly random.

[rob_s]

Yes, we get that. However, most also get that IPSC's blanket 100% prohibition on aftermarket parts in Production is stupid when it comes to parts that give absolutely zero advantage to the user and only improve durability and maintainability. Thank God we don't have to deal with them in the US.

CGW's trigger pin is held in place by the TRS and it is the standard by which all others are measured.

If you don't like the rules of the game, play a different game, or get on the board and effect change.

Cheating is cheating. Advantage or no. And, if there is no advantage, why cheat?

[Slavex]

I've broken 1 trigger spring I think, would have to go check through my log books, but that's in 5 guns and somewhere over 250,000 rounds. But I also just saw a Canadian Shadowmate with a messed up frame rail and badly fitted safety that needed a lot of loving. I'd say you just got a bad spring, replace it and move on with no worries.

[LockedBreech]

When carrying a gun for home or personal defense, there's nothing out of bounds. When using a gun for sport, even a minor illegal equipment modification is cheating. Don't be a cheater.

OP, I'd be upset. That's usually not an acceptable failure to me but, since this is a gun for competition and not home or personal defense, I'd try and follow the advice here and figure out fixes and have them on hand, especially if you enjoy the ergonomics of the gun.

[Alpha Sierra]

And, if there is no advantage, why cheat?
There is an advantage to the CGW trigger pin. It is not a competitive advantage.

I'm done here.

[VooX]

Thanks for the discussion. To clarify, CGW replacement parts would not be IPSC Production legal while CZ Custom Shop replacement parts would be.

[Slavex]

Only if those CZ Custom shop parts are CZUB parts. Angus does sell a lot of factory parts but some parts, like his Stainless guide rod are not factory parts and would get a person bumped to Open (seen it happen). You obviously don't need to worry about that as your gun has the factory stainless guide rod in it already.
I am of the opinion that springs specifically should be removed from the list of parts that we can't replace on PD guns foremost because no one will be able to tell if you are running OEM of AM ones. Things like barrels, triggers, hammers, disconnectors etc, are all pretty easy to figure out, but springs? Hell I know a few national champs who run cut hammer springs and unpinned mags at matches, but no one bothers to check them.
All that said, factory trigger return springs are cheap to find, so use that. See if you can locate some factory 11lb main springs (you'll love em). If you have a backup gun, run CGW parts in it for practice.
Edited to add, I also think things like the CGW trigger pin should be allowed as there is no competitive advantage to using one, there is a detail stripping advantage. But I know that once Pandora's box gets opened PD would basically be Standard with DA or Striker fired guns.

[melsauto]

Hello Alpha Sierra,
I have 2 CZ'S one CZ 75B Omega 9mm and just bought a SP-01, 9 mm . I had problems with my CZ 75B Omega failure to feed and i sent it to CZ for repairs and they have just sent me that it fixed. The fix adjusted slide stop, adjusted feed ramp, staked trigger bar spring, test fired good.

I have this other brand new CZ 75 SP 01 which will not load the first cartridge i am a little pissed off two pistols with same problems i am using new cartridges Winchester white box 118 grain round nosed cartridges. I know CZ'S like 124 grain which are not available locally .

[Slavex]

Factory mags? Post pics or video of the feed issue if you can

[VooX]

I just returned home from out of the country. I will be buying the necessary tools to detail strip my CZ. Other than a hammer, what specific punches and tools will I need to get the job done?

I will also be ordering the replacement parts that you guys have recommended. I am going to try and keep this an IPSC production-division legal repair. Slavex, do you think that the CGW trigger pin would ever be noticed during inspection?

Thanks again to everyone for all the wise words and kind advice.

[Slavex]

I doubt it would be but it's a big chance to run one nonetheless. I run them in my Steel Challenge gun and my loaner guns, but not my match gun or backup gun. No need really, as I seldom detail strip that far down, even under the yearly (or so) cleanings.
I can't remember the size of the punch but you really only need a punch for the trigger pin and also for removing the hammer pins if you decide to replace those. It is a really good idea to get a starter punch and the proper size punch for the pin.

[VooX]

Trigger spring, slide stop... Any other parts I should grab that are known to wear out? May as well stock up now.

[VooX]

Just a quick update to my thread, replacement parts as well as spare parts are on the way. I went with the IPSC legal upgraded trigger pin and trigger return spring. The guys at CZ Custom told me the most failure-prone parts are the trigger return spring, slide stop, and extractor. I've ordered multiple spares for each.

While having my new gun break during dry-fire was upsetting, learning more about the gun's weak points has given me an understanding of my firearm which is much more than superficial. Even though this is my first gun, ignorance is not bliss. It is ignorance. Plain and simple.

Preparing for failure in advance by having spare parts on hand, as well as the necessary tools to detail strip the gun, has made me a much more confident owner. If the mail cooperates, I should have the gun fixed by late next week with upgraded components.

All mechanical devices are prone to problems. I am glad there is a good community here to help owners like myself work through them. Thanks again. Back to lurking the forums for me.

[Slavex]

In my spare parts box that goes with me to every match (along with a backup gun) I have
3 extractors (replaced one recently)
4 extractor pins
4 extractor springs
6 slide stops (I keep grabbing Rami slide stops when ever I see them, 2 should be enough)
2 firing pins
2 standard weight firing pin springs (I don't use the light ones)
2 firing pin retaining plate
1 set of flush safeties
2 safety detents (left side)
2 safety detent spring
2 safety detent plates (right side)
2 11lb factory main springs
2 13lb factory main springs
1 trigger
1 trigger bar
1 trigger bar spring
2 trigger pins
2 trigger springs
1 sear cage
2 sears
2 sear springs
1 sear pin
1 hammer
1 hammer strut
1 disconnector
3 CZ shock buffs (thick)
2 grip screws
1ft of green fiber optic
1ft of red fiber optic
1 6mm front sight (Cajun Gun Works)
all necessary punches and tools
I tihnk that's it. Only a few things right?
I probably don't need to carry all this stuff to every match, as I have the spare gun, but if I have the time to do it, I'd rather replace a part then go to the back up gun. Like a slide stop or an extractor, not a hammer or a sear. I also carry the parts with me in case someone else needs one, I've replaced springs for other people, firing pins and extractors.
At home I have more of the same parts, just in case you know? Most often if I'm replacing a pin or a spring, it's because it vanished off my bench.