Week 98: 5x5 Skill Test

[Mr_White]

Week 98: 5x5 Skill Test

Results may be posted until March 6th, 2015

Designed by: Bill Wilson
Range: 10 yards
Target: IDPA
Start Position: Hands at sides, facing the target
Rounds Fired: 25

Equipment: Service pistol of 9mm caliber or larger, concealed carry suitable holster and ammunition with a power factor of 125,000 or more – note that concealment is not required

Purpose: Create a measurable quick to run and low round count skill drill that tests rapid fire pistol control

Scoring: IDPA Limited Vickers – note that no extra shots or make up shots are allowed – your score is your time plus penalties – add .5 seconds penalty time for each point down on target – i.e. a shot in the -1 zone adds .5 seconds to your time, a shot in the -3 zone adds 1.5 seconds to your time, and a miss adds 2.5 seconds to your time

Procedure:

String 1: Draw and fire 5 shots freestyle

String 2: Draw and fire 5 shots strong hand only

String 3: Draw and fire 5 shots freestyle, reload from slidelock and fire 5 more shots freestyle

String 4: Draw and fire 4 shots to the body and 1 shot to the head freestyle

Skill ranking (Bill Wilson’s opinion)
Grand Master: 15 seconds or less
Master: 20 seconds or less
Expert: 25 seconds or less
Sharpshooter: 32 seconds or less
Marksman: 41 seconds or less
Novice: 50 seconds or less
Not proficient enough to carry a handgun: Over 50 seconds

Please report the following when you post your results in this thread:

Equipment used (pistol, holster, optional concealment garment if one was used)
Time for each string
Total raw time
Total points down
Total score (raw time + .5 seconds for each point down)

Training with firearms is an inherently dangerous activity. Be sure to follow all safety protocols when using firearms or practicing these drills. These drills are provided for information purposes only. Use at your own risk.

[GJM]

last two:

Glock 34
3.01
3.26
5.37
2.70
clean in 14.34

I had a very slow first string, or it would have been near my PR of 13 something. Interestingly, this was the first time I used a timer in the last three sessions -- have been focusing on stopping/aiming/jerking with perfect form.

CZ SP01
2.71
3.57
5.15 -.5
2.73

14.16 + .5 = 14.66

[JAD]

Oddly I was at the range SHOOTING THIS EXACT DRILL when you posted this.

Springer 9mm Range Officer, JRC SSA, not concealed, 125gr LSWC reloads (130 pf)

Freestyle 3.00
SHO 5.48
5R5 7.38
4b1H 3.86
Total 19.72

12 points down = +6

25.72 = SS, about right

[2alpha-down0]

M&P9, JMCK AIWB under a polo

3.03
4.50
6.22
2.83
Total raw: 16.58
Points down: 4
Total score: 18.58 (Master)

I was a little off today. I shot a 16.69 on this back on 1/25 without too much trouble.



Sent from my iThingy using Tapawhatsit

[miller_man]

Added this to my first ever DOW drills. Had new sights, POI was low . . . excuses, excuses, excuses :)

Glock 19, Archangel holster - t-shirt concealment

freestyle 4.54
SHO 5.29 -4
5R5 7.70 -1
4B1H 4.68
Raw 22.21
Pnts dwn 5
Total 24.71

Shot these after several F.A.S.T., was a little warmed up, felt good.

[JHC]

Mild weather super warmed up, 16.15 with a Gen 3 G19.

Then, shot "cold" bundled up in wind and cold; 19.12 with a Sig 320 and 19.86 with a Gen 4 G26.

[luckyman]

My normal g19 is out having grip work done. Shot this with a "g19S" (chopped to 26 length, because Ca = 10 round mag limit. )

4.16
6.32
9.17 (includes a 3.28 horrible mag change)
4.17 (I think I started to warm up )
7 misses, all just low
23.82 + 3.5 penalty = 27.32

[40Green]

HKP2000 w/x300 and duty gear.

1. 4.64
2. 6.81
3. 10.24- fumbled reload, 4.13 dropped first mag.
4. 7.07

All clean, total time 28.73.

[ssb]

OK, I don't have IDPA targets lying around, and my range doesn't carry those. I do, however, have more than a few of the PTC 2.0 targets. Is there a way to make this work using, say, the 8" circle on the chest as the -0 zone, the bottle from line to line as the -1 zone, and the black torso-ish area as the -2 zone, or am I way off with my dimensions? I can post a photo of the target as necessary.

[Mr_White]

OK, I don't have IDPA targets lying around, and my range doesn't carry those. I do, however, have more than a few of the PTC 2.0 targets. Is there a way to make this work using, say, the 8" circle on the chest as the -0 zone, the bottle from line to line as the -1 zone, and the black torso-ish area as the -2 zone, or am I way off with my dimensions? I can post a photo of the target as necessary.

I'm not the arbiter of Bill Wilson's 5x5 Skill Test. But I'd say that when it comes to the DotW the most important thing is that you shoot the drill, even if you have to modify it a bit for the facilities and equipment available to you. So I'd say go ahead and shoot it on the excellent PTC 2.0 target and include that detail in your posted results. No biggie. BTW, the big torso should probably be the -3 zone (no -2 zone on IDPA targets.)

[Gio]

I shot this last week. G19 w Raven phantom holster, no concealment.

2.40
3.56 (-.5)
5.31
2.38
Total: 13.65 +.5 = 14.15.

I will shoot this again next time out with my G35 and see how fast i can push it.

[ToddG]

Burton Heirloom 9mm Cmdr
JMCK AIWB
concealed, untucked polo

PTC2 Target

Shot cold, as if that makes a difference at this point. :cool:

1: 5.42 clean
2: 10.31, down 1
3: 10.67, down 1
4: 5.20 clean

Raw time: 31.63
Points down: 2

Total score: 32.63 (Marksman)

2nd run: 4.88 -1, 9.14, 10.67 -1, 4.97; 30.66 total

3rd run: 4.60, 8.83 -3(D-zone), 9.62 down 1, 4.70 down 1; 30.25 total

4th run: 4.55 down 1, 7.38, 10.03 down 1, 4.81; 27.77 total

[ssb]

OK, I don't have IDPA targets lying around, and my range doesn't carry those. I do, however, have more than a few of the PTC 2.0 targets. Is there a way to make this work using, say, the 8" circle on the chest as the -0 zone, the bottle from line to line as the -1 zone, and the black torso-ish area as the -3 zone, or am I way off with my dimensions? I can post a photo of the target as necessary.

Using the above scoring...

1. 3.68 -0
2. 5.05 -2
3. 8.37 -3 now with new and improved riding the slide stop and fumbling the reload action.
4. 3.40 -0

Raw 20.50 + 2.50 = 23.00 total

Shot w/ SIG MK-25 w/ Trijicon HDs and a JMCK AIWB w/ JMCK AIWB-SMP.

[Range1]

Ran this several times today with a variety of pistols. All were from concealment using an open front jacket.

Run 1 using my usual CCW stock gen 4 Glock 23 with Trijicon HD sights. Ran cold first run of the day out of a Safariland ALS owb holster.
4.13 -1
5.35 -5
9.73 -3 (+1 miss)
4.77 -3 (+1 miss)
Raw time 23.98 Total Down 22 Adjusted time 34.98

Run 2 using stock M&P Shield 9mm in cheap owb holster, re-loading from pocket.
5.67 -0
5.11 -3
13.94 -3
4.52 -1 (+1 miss)
Raw time 29.24 Total Down 12 Adjusted time 35.24

Run 3 using gen 3 Glock 34 with Warren Tactical rear sight, Warren fiber optic front sight, Ghost EVO Elite connector and a NY trigger spring from a Safariland ALS owb.
3.53 -2
4.38 -0
7.42 -3
3.85 -2
Raw time 19.18 Total Down 7 Adjusted time 22.68

Also ran the drill several more times with adjusted times running between 25.5 and just over 35.00. Identified areas I need to work on the most and will be drawing up a plan to do just that.

Just to add, anyone not doing the DotW really should if at all possible. It is a lot of fun, good incentive to practice and an excellent means of identifying areas in need of improvement. Thanks again for bringing it back.

[martinmj]

G19 in RCS Phantom OWB, concealed under fleece jacket

1: 5.54 clean
2: 8.06 -3
3: 11.59 clean
4: 5.83 clean

Raw: 31.02

Total 31.02 + (3x.5) = 32.52

[Talionis]

I just picked up a VP9 to play around with, so I thought I'd put it through its paces for this drill as a bit of a break in. Drill was at the end of the day after 300 rounds of .45 from my 1911, so I'm sure I didn't do the gun justice. I'll probably run this again in the future when I'm a bit more familiar with the gun and not as tired from a day of shooting.

Equipment: HK VP9, Home-made kydex AIWB holster and mag pouch. No concealment.
One alteration from the drill as written was that I used a USPSA Metric target rather than an IDPA target. Scoring zones are slightly different, but all A's were in the upper half, and I excluded anything outside of A zone width as -1 or -3.

1: 2.22 -0
2: 3.08 -4
3: 4.66 -1
4: 2.31 -0

Total Raw time: 12.27
Total Points down: 5
Total score: 14.77

I don't think the performance was bad for a stock gun with stock sights that I have almost no experience with, but there are definitely a few things to improve. I need to adjust my 1 hand grip for a better trigger break. It wasn't finishing flat, so I pushed shots left. I need to re-adjust to the trigger finger magazine release as well.

Overall I'm happy with how the gun shoots. Tight shots are very easy with the gun, though fast splits are definitely more of a challenge than a good 1911 or CZ trigger as shown in string 1 and 4 particularly. The gun tracks flat, with minimal flip. The stock sights are definitely not regulated for 147 ammo, as it prints significantly high at all ranges I tried, so that will need to be addressed as well. I'm impressed so far.

[JHC]

No not too bad for a stock gun. ;) Nice shooting.

[Talionis]

No not too bad for a stock gun. ;) Nice shooting.

Thanks! Strong work yourself. I'm used to having to do a fair amount of fiddling with a new blaster before I can shoot it the way I want. I think this one will get new sights and that's about it. I think you're experiencing the same with your P320.

I return you to your regularly scheduled DoTW now, sorry for the derail.

[GJM]

Lots of good shooting by folks, especially some newer guys (and very old guys like JHC)!

[Clobbersaurus]

I decided to shoot this test from concealment. I used a template cut classic IPSC target, so for string 4, I stapled a 3x5 card to the top of the target for a "head".

Equipment:
Bladetech Holster, Blackhawk mag holders, stupid looking vest for concealment.

String 1: 4.65
String 2: 6.53 (+1.5) = 8.03
String 3: 8.59
String 4: 4.19 (+.5) = 4.69

Raw time: 23.96
Total Points Down: 4. (I threw three shots left during string 2 into the C zone and one shot left on string 4 into the C zone. I counted those as -0.5's, but if that is not right please let me know. I almost missed the head shot entirely, just scraping the 3X5....see pic below.)

Total Score: 25.96

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r151/clobbersauras/DSC03763_zpswfz1inxx.jpg (http://s143.photobucket.com/user/clobbersauras/media/DSC03763_zpswfz1inxx.jpg.html)

[wmu12071]

Equipment used: Glock 19, DSG AIWB, hoody
Time for each string:

2.02, .44, .38, .39, .42
2.1, .6, .61, .59, .63 -1
1.99, .37, .44, .37, .37, 1.97, .36, .40, .38, .35
1.98, .44, .42, .4, .74

Total raw time: 19.16

Total points down: 1

Total score: 19.66

I shot this with a 6" circle as down 0 and the rest of the page -1 anything else as a miss. Head was a 3x5 card.

I shot this way above my skill level, maybe dry fire last week is paying off...

[Mr_White]

Equipment: Gen3 G34 in a Keeper concealed under a t-shirt

String 1: 1.97 (-1 shot jerked low out of the circle)
String 2: 2.86 (-2, just spazzed with a couple of shots, sent them a little high/right)
String 3: 4.34 c
String 4: 2.16 c

Total raw time: 11.33
Total points down: 3
Total sore: 12.83

Pretty happy with that. I was at 14-something the first time I shot it, and it's nice to improve quite a bit from there. It also felt good because I felt like I wouldacouldashoulda shot it clean at the same pace and that the marksmanship errors were quite correctable. Glad to walk away with a 12.83 in any case.

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8673/16626385771_23ee023656_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/rkdzeD)20150221_074523 (https://flic.kr/p/rkdzeD) by OrigamiAK (https://www.flickr.com/people/52790396@N08/), on Flickr

[DocGKR]

G19 w/RMR06 in Unity ATOM mount carried AIWB in a JM Custom from under an untucked long sleeve Patagonia shirt firing Fed AE9FP 147 gr FMJ.

String 1: 2.84 -- All A's
String 2: 4.30 -- 1 C
String 3: 5.89 -- 1 C
String 4: 2.77 -- All A's
Total raw time: 15.80s
Total points down: 2
Total sore: 16.80s

[raks]

*Yes I know this should be shot with 'practical' gear but I did it anyhow, lets call this 'not for score'

GP X-Trim 9mm, IPSC Racemaster holster, IPSC belt & race mag pouches. No concealment.

S1 - 3.36
S2 - 3.96
S3 - 5.64
S4 - 3.03
T - 15.99 - 10 Points down - 20.99 final score

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h237/usptac/th_P_20150226_000403_zpsgbwyctkd.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/usptac/media/P_20150226_000403_zpsgbwyctkd.jpg.html)

I was pushing a lot of shots low left, which I would normally diagnose as a flinch but I'm not convinced thats the problem here. Regardless, more dryfire work needed and more range time with this gun, still less than 1k rounds through it.

[ssb]

I'm using a Vanguard 2 w/o the strut soft loop right now, so I'm not too concerned about the draw times. For the reload, I stuffed a G17 mag in my belt at or about the position the JMCK AIWB-SMP I ordered will put it, because improvisation. I mainly wanted a solid data point between the G19 and the MK-25. G19 has a stock trigger and orange HDs.

1.82/.26/.24/.23/.23 -0 2.78/2.78

2.04/.33/.34/.36/.35 -2 3.42/4.42

1.75/.24/.26/.25/.25/2.68/.23/.23/.24/.26 -1 6.39/6.89

1.78/.24/.23/.23/.46 -0 2.94/2.94

17.03 total time. These were my results from the other week w/ a MK-25 and a proper holster:


Using the above scoring...

1. 3.68 -0
2. 5.05 -2
3. 8.37 -3 now with new and improved riding the slide stop and fumbling the reload action.
4. 3.40 -0

Raw 20.50 + 2.50 = 23.00 total

Shot w/ SIG MK-25 w/ Trijicon HDs and a JMCK AIWB w/ JMCK AIWB-SMP.

So... I was faster. The sights tracked noticably better for me -- right back on target every time, and much faster than the SIG. I'm pretty stoked to figure out what I can do with an actual holster + mag pouch.

[JHC]

I'm using a Vanguard 2 w/o the strut soft loop right now, so I'm not too concerned about the draw times. For the reload, I stuffed a G17 mag in my belt at or about the position the JMCK AIWB-SMP I ordered will put it, because improvisation. I mainly wanted a solid data point between the G19 and the MK-25. G19 has a stock trigger and orange HDs.

1.82/.26/.24/.23/.23 -0 2.78/2.78

2.04/.33/.34/.36/.35 -2 3.42/4.42

1.75/.24/.26/.25/.25/2.68/.23/.23/.24/.26 -1 6.39/6.89

1.78/.24/.23/.23/.46 -0 2.94/2.94

17.03 total time. These were my results from the other week w/ a MK-25 and a proper holster:



So... I was faster. The sights tracked noticably better for me -- right back on target every time, and much faster than the SIG. I'm pretty stoked to figure out what I can do with an actual holster + mag pouch.

Smokin'. A 19 has crushed everything else I've shot on this test - Sig320, Gen 3 17 and a Gen 4 17.

[Corey]

M&P9, Blade Tech IDPA holster, open front concealment.

String 1: 4.03
String 2: 5.84
String 3: 9.24
String 4: 5.58

Total time: 24.69

Points down: 5

Total Score: 27.19, Sharpshooter

That sucked, I better start getting serious about training again.

[EricM]

Gen 4 G17, Comp-Tac OWB

String 1: 4.95 -1
String 2: 6.87 -1
String 3: 12.17 -1
String 4: 5.04

Total raw time: 29.03
Total points down: 3
Total score: 30.53

[wilco423]

Gen 4 G17 w/X300U, Safariland 6360 duty holster.
String 1: 4.29 (+1.0)
String 2: 5.07 (+0.5)
String 3: 7.28 (+0.5)
String 4: 3.88 (clean)
Total raw: 20.52 sec
Penalties: 2.0 sec
Total time: 22.52

I shot this cold on a TRICON style target (8" chest circle) and estimated the scoring zones from an IDPA target for the rest of the body. I was hoping to do better, but it's a pretty honest assessment of where I am right now.

[Talionis]

Well, it's still the 6th by my watch.

I was out at the range testing some trigger work I'd done on a friend's new CZ SP-01 and thought I'd see what an "on-demand performance" run of this drill would look like with an analog to my competition setup.

CZ SP-01 unconcealed in a blade-tech OWB holster on a BOSS hanger, Ghost 360 mag pouches.
String 1: 2.26
String 2: 3.52
String 3: 5.15
String 4: 2.6

Raw time: 13.53
Penalties: 0
Total time: 13.52

Overall this run felt like I was taking ages, but not pushing anything and just shooting to make the hits lead to a comfortable time that was more than a second quicker than my previous run with the HK once I factor in penalties.