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dove
02-03-2015, 04:49 PM
http://store.laser-ammo.com/electronic-targets/laserpet-electronic-target.html

Any first hand opinions on this particular model for dry-fire practice, particularly paired with a SIRT? I tried searching but only found a passing mention in Todd's training journal. For those who have used them, did you find them to offer significant training benefit over inert targets with laser splash visual feedback and practicing draws untimed?

The main attractions for me are the audible feedback in general and the draw-to-first-shot timer. The target masks are a cool idea, but I'm not sure how much practical utility they provide on an already small target.

It kinda sucks that they didn't add a splits mode; even in dry fire that'd be useful for reloads. It's mildly annoying that most of these consumer-grade targets aren't green sensitive nor offer such an option, but I guess that's the plus side on being able to swap the red/green on the SIRT.

ToddG
02-03-2015, 05:35 PM
They sent me one for T&E back before I started having health problems, and when I offered to send it back since no T&E report was likely forthcoming they said no, keep it and hopefully it will help you in your recovery. So the folks at the company are pretty awesome.

My only real complaint is that the target is very small (to keep price down, I'm sure) so it's hard to work on things you'd normally like to perfect against a bigger, higher probability target (like raw speed). It does make dry fire more interesting, though, and that's a value unto itself. For working on pure marksmanship and precision hits (whether from the draw, after a reload, or whatever) it works very well.

I don't think I've ever tried it with my SIRTs. I've used the "laser bullet" -- or whatever they call it -- and it's good but not perfect. POI isn't perfectly consistent even once the bullet is in the bore, and from insertion to insertion it can change even more. So the zero isn't always right and combined with the small target that is a deficiency.

Still, I've found it useful. I'd definitely be interested in reading what others have experienced using one more extensively.

dove
02-04-2015, 05:02 PM
I've found very similar zeroing issues with the LaserLyte cartridges. This combined with occasional failures to respond (confirmed, not suspected) and limited/coarse/imperfect reproduction resolution of the LaserLyte target, I've found that it can make for frustrating dry fire practice sessions. I still find those products useful for certain applications, but I've come to the conclusion that a binary target with audible feedback would be much better suited for routine dryfire practice. I was thinking about building one until my brain told me to go look before reinventing the wheel; lo and behold.

Have you found any issues with the LaserPET failing to register hits occasionally, or other reliability issues?

BaiHu
02-04-2015, 05:14 PM
Very interested in hearing how people like these products. I've had limited range time as of late and need to spice up my dry fire.

ToddG
02-04-2015, 09:46 PM
Have you found any issues with the LaserPET failing to register hits occasionally, or other reliability issues?

The first one they sent me had this problem more than 50% of the time. I offered to send it back and call it done, instead they said no, let us send you another and we know you'll mention in your review that the first one was f'd up right from the factory (my words obviously, not theirs). I'm always willing to give a company a second chance when they don't ask me to lie about the first one ... which sadly isn't the norm in this industry.

BaiHu
02-04-2015, 09:48 PM
That's promising that they're not asking you to lie.

Chuck Haggard
02-05-2015, 08:25 AM
I'd be curious if those targets work with the SIRT, that would be very useful.

EricM
02-05-2015, 08:54 AM
As an alternative, have you considered the Laser Activated Shot Reporter (http://www.lasrapp.com/store/lasr-laser-activated-shot-reporter) software? It basically uses a webcam to see your SIRT/laser cartridge hits on targets of your choosing. It has an integrated shot timer, optionally provides audible feedback on hits and misses, can automatically score your targets, etc. I've recently started a dryfire regimen using LASR with an IR SIRT. Don't mean to derail your thread, but based on the functionality you mentioned being attracted to in the LaserPET, thought it might be of interest.

TAZ
02-05-2015, 12:09 PM
Not the Pet, but I have a set of the laserlyte reaction time targets that I use. As mentioned the biggest issue I have run into with the in chamber lasers is POI consistency. On my P30 the laser is POA. On the VP9 it's high right across the room unless I insert the bullet a certain way kind of a PITA. There has to be a better way to center the cartridges with the bore from the inside of the chamber.

Even so the targets are big enough to practice draw stroke and such. They blink and beep when hit, so it's pretty good feedback. I made some masks for the face to shrink the sensor for working slow trigger control exercises. It adds a bit of spice to dry fire. Not sure how the SIRT would interact with them.

dove
02-05-2015, 02:20 PM
The first one they sent me had this problem more than 50% of the time.

How has the second one been?


I'd be curious if those targets work with the SIRT, that would be very useful.

They almost certainly will not work with the green laser. They probably will work with the red laser, the only variables being differences in wavelength (highly unlikely to be significant, let alone a factor), power (SIRT is probably more powerful if anything), and the non-momentary nature of the SIRT's flash vs the cartridges' (a more believable failure mode, but still probably ok). I believe the amazon crowdsourced FAQ and reviews indicate that the red SIRT laser is good to go. Switching the red and green roles on the SIRT Pro seems like a moderate inconvenience if you want a green shot laser often otherwise (see comment about "activation energy" below), but I'm guessing that the bigger issue may be maintaining a good zero with the red laser across distances since it is considerably lower than the sights. I'd be curious to hear about that from people who have done the red/green swap on the Pro.


As an alternative, have you considered the Laser Activated Shot Reporter (http://www.lasrapp.com/store/lasr-laser-activated-shot-reporter) software? [...]

I'm definitely interested in hearing about alternatives! I've seen that and am definitely considering it. It has a lot of attractive features. The main block to me is the Windows requirement since I'm on a Mac these days with occasional Linux usage; I abandoned Windows altogether long ago. Sure, I could run a dual boot setup with a second partition or run a Windows VM, but that subtracts a lot of points in my philosophy, which I'll describe below:

I find with many skills, shooting included, assuming for the moment that you are not engaging in bad practice, the best practice is practice that you do a lot of. Practice that you do a lot of ends up translating to practice that you make a habit of, which in turn translates to practice that is easy to make a habit out of, which in turn translates to practice that has a low activation energy, i.e. the effort it takes to initiate an individual session.

Live fire, for many people, myself included, is relatively high-activation-energy practice. However, it is so critical to the core skill progress that I have no choice but to put the extra effort in to make as much a habit out of it as possible (which averages out to about once a week for me) and to lower the activation energy wherever possible, since I want to improve. Without replacing live fire, one of the benefits of dry fire is its much lower activation energy, for the average person. But, without getting derailed into the reasons why, dry-fire practice with my primary pistol has a relatively high activation energy for me and this leads to me ultimately not partaking in it as frequent as I'd like.

I saved up for a SIRT because of the massive decrease in activation energy it brings to dry fire. I know I'll get dry fire reps in every day, possibly multiple times a day, when mine arrives (tomorrow! :D). The downside to such readily-casual practice is the risk of being lazy/sloppy and turning it into bad practice. One issue I'll have to keep on top of with my brain is keeping a good grip. The more worrying issue though is making excuses and bad calls with how good my shots really are, or alteratively, target focussing. I feel a binary target with audible feedback will go a long way towards addressing those concerns and providing confidence in the quality of the sight-alignment and trigger-control aspects of the practice. A target like the LaserPET that is small enough to leave out and convenient enough to use whenever addresses this while not adding significant activation energy. Given how frequently I have a laptop nearby, the activation energy that the LASR software adds isn't too bad, although it is significant. But, if I now need to deal with rebooting into Windows, or spinning-up/maintaing a VM, that activation energy, and general utility cost, becomes much larger than I'd like for high-frequency dry fire practice.


Not the Pet, but I have a set of the laserlyte reaction time targets that I use. As mentioned the biggest issue I have run into with the in chamber lasers is POI consistency. On my P30 the laser is POA. On the VP9 it's high right across the room unless I insert the bullet a certain way kind of a PITA. There has to be a better way to center the cartridges with the bore from the inside of the chamber.


Interesting, I tend to find the POI issues being high right on my G19 too, but intermittent. If I were committed to laser dry fire practice with my actual G19, or had the extra cash, I'd invest in the LaserLyte G19 barrel, which hopefully doesn't have the same issues.

Huh, those "Reaction Tyme" targets seem pretty cool. They drop the first-shot timer of the LaserPET, but I like the idea of the "always on" mode. (See comments above about activation energy.) Personally, I think I might not want the flashing lights, but it looks like that's just the corners, so I could cover that with felt or something. If I'm going to nitpick, I think I'd much prefer the immediate single beep of the LaserPET over the delayed double beep of the Reaction Tyme.

ToddG
02-05-2015, 03:19 PM
How has the second one been?

100% reliable as best I can sya. It's possible that some shots were hits when I thought they were misses (and the target didn't register a hit) but if that's happening it's not noticeable or consistent enough for me to tell. I feel like the second one is working as advertised.