Proper Draw and Grip

[SLG]

Instead of continuing to derail Bill's 1911 thread (or maybe it's so egregious that in this case it's more like stop fanning the fire of the derailed train) I thought I'd start a new thread to talk about draw. Mod's, if you feel like cutting off the grip portion of the old thread and sticking it here, please have at it.

As Ernie Langdon has said, talking about this stuff can be hard to do. I much prefer to demo a draw or a grip, and then watch others do it. But this will have to do. My descriptions below all assume AIWB with a closed front garment, though standard IWB works the same way. Still closed front.

When you first go for the gun, and assuming no injuries or in-fight access kind of stuff, the support hand actually needs to move first, or at least at exactly the same time as the strong hand. My support hand clears the garment. Others prefer to use their strong hand to do so, but I am convinced that is slower. I also don't think the tactical gods will smite you for it. If I need to draw strong hand only, then I do so, no issue. Once the support hand has cleared the garment, it pins it up high near the sternum. The strong hand then descends on the backstrap of the gun and drives into the top of the backstrap, as deeply as possible. My thumb is flagged high regardless of pistol. This allows me to seamlessly transition from 1911's to Glocks/Sigs/Beretta's, whatever. As well as thumb-break holsters/ALS/SLS etc. The act of driving the hand down and into the backstrap of the gun pushes the gun slightly into the holster. This ensures that my grip is perfect and that I will not lose the gun. You lose a bit of speed this way, but the trade off is well worth it to me. I've seen more than one USPSA GM throw their gun and magazines at the ground while trying to draw. No thanks.

From that point, the gun come as straight up as possible, as high as possible without contorting myself. The muzzle then rotates towards the target and I drive the gun straight to the target.

As soon as the gun starts to move away from my sternum, my support hand slides in from the side and grips tightly. This is key. Too many people get a two handed grip on their gun much further into the press-out and this does not help your security or ability to break a fast, accurate shot. The support hand NEEDS to mate with the strong hand as soon as possible in the drawstroke.

This type of draw combined with the way I described gripping the gun, will go as far as possible to ensure you do not lose your gun. I am currently pulling 1 to 1.1 second draws with a Glock 23, and my splits with full power .40 are .17-.20. There are plenty of people faster than me, some who draw like I do, some who may draw differently. I believe that these techniques, combined with how I train at the range and off, give me the most on demand repeatable performance possible. Which is not to say that I'm not trying to get faster and better still.

As I mentioned before, this needs to be worked out in person, with critical feedback given, in order to get the best results.

[TumblinDown]

As soon as the gun starts to move away from my sternum, my support hand slides in from the side and grips tightly. This is key. Too many people get a two handed grip on their gun much further into the press-out and this does not help your security or ability to break a fast, accurate shot. The support hand NEEDS to mate with the strong hand as soon as possible in the drawstroke.

I get the support on the gun early (close to the body), but I wouldn't say I get a strong grip with it until further in the press-out. The best I have to describe that is late in this video (about 6:50-7:50) from Shannon Smith. Is that different from what you're describing?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJrA7wMXuuQ

[SLG]

Without watching a full speed but slo mo draw from Shannon or me, I won't argue one way or the other. My point was just that your goal should be as finished a grip as early as possible. At the speeds we are pushing, there will always be a bit of refinement as the gun gets further out. This is one reason I hate typing my thoughts on these things. It would have probably been more correct to say that I start and finish getting my tight grip as soon as possible, rather than forcing it to be delayed by having my hands meet up later. Clear as mud?

[TumblinDown]

Makes perfect sense! It is not easy to do any of these consistently with perfection (or as close to it as we can get). It's probably natural for all of us to want to go full speed all the time, but I'm trying to keep most of my practice slow. Even just a slow press-out with the perfectly sights aligned and on target at full extension is not as easy as one would think.

Back to your description... I've waffled a bit on the role of the support hand in the draw stroke. While I think you are correct that there is a small speed advantage if the support hand clears the garment, I'm concerned that training this way builds in an assumption that I will *always* have both hands available. I've used both methods, but I'm beginning to think I should stick solely with the one-handed approach. Regarding pressing the gun into the holster briefly, I'm with you! Better to ensure a good grip than miss it when you really need it. I try to reverse that downward pressure quickly, almost like depressing a spring and then use that energy to accelerate upward.

Back to practicing... I need it! : )

[45dotACP]

I find that when drawing from concealment, I do much better when I pull my shirt crosswise flat against my chest (I use closed front concealment mostly) as it keeps my flagged thumb from catching in my shirt.

From there, I bring the gun up to the sternum and meet with the left hand and then get it going to the target. I try to establish a very strong grip right out of the holster as well, and I try to get the grip made with as little motion as possible. That means having both palms on the gun at my sternum, because when my right hand is extending out to the target, trying to catch up to it with my left hand means I am "chasing the gun" with my left hand. I prefer not to do that.

[ToddG]

I get the support on the gun early (close to the body), but I wouldn't say I get a strong grip with it until further in the press-out. The best I have to describe that is late in this video (about 6:50-7:50) from Shannon Smith. Is that different from what you're describing?

I won't speak for SLG but that is different than what I do. It may actually have been SLG who first said it to me this way, but when I start presenting my gun forward I want to have in mind the thought that perhaps instead of shooting, I am doing a muzzle strike. So before the gun starts leaving the sternum/"work" area, I have my grip complete.

First, it's more secure. This is particularly obvious if you have someone(s) bouncing into you or otherwise manipulating your balance as you're drawing. The C.U.S.S. class that Jack Failure2Stop Leuba and I did used a pretty simple drill to prove this, though it's only something I would do with vetted students who I absolutely knew would be safe to handle it in live fire. You could achieve the same thing with an airsoft or Sim pistol, though, so long as everyone was properly set up with protective gear.

Second, at least if you're trying to establish your sight alignment somewhat visually on the extension (e.g., press-out), coming into contact with the gun forcefully as it extends is going to change your sight alignment and cancel out part of the benefit of what you're trying to accomplish with the press-out to begin with.